Discussion:
Luxon - No regrets!
(too old to reply)
Rich80105
2024-06-24 23:39:47 UTC
Permalink
https://www.thepost.co.nz/politics/350321642/luxon-has-no-regrets-about-cancelling-new-cook-strait-ferries

and for some comments:
https://www.reddit.com/r/nzpolitics/comments/1dmxi5p/nz_goes_to_the_back_of_the_queue_for_new_ferries/

So who are the winners? Morgan Stanley (who own Bluebridge), and air
freight forms and trucking. Gosh - are we surprised - and all this so
they could afford tax cuts for landlords - as far as the government is
concerned there are no losers! (or perhaps more accurately, no users
that matter to the government . . .)
Gordon
2024-06-25 00:21:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
https://www.thepost.co.nz/politics/350321642/luxon-has-no-regrets-about-cancelling-new-cook-strait-ferries
https://www.reddit.com/r/nzpolitics/comments/1dmxi5p/nz_goes_to_the_back_of_the_queue_for_new_ferries/
So who are the winners? Morgan Stanley (who own Bluebridge), and air
freight forms and trucking. Gosh - are we surprised - and all this so
they could afford tax cuts for landlords - as far as the government is
concerned there are no losers! (or perhaps more accurately, no users
that matter to the government . . .)
You just not get a few billion dollars of ferries over night. It takes
several years. This issue was one of successive Governments.

If the Labour Government had not spent up large not needed stuff and the
ferry had not run around all would be fine. No fizzing in the tea cup.
Rich80105
2024-06-25 01:58:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gordon
Post by Rich80105
https://www.thepost.co.nz/politics/350321642/luxon-has-no-regrets-about-cancelling-new-cook-strait-ferries
https://www.reddit.com/r/nzpolitics/comments/1dmxi5p/nz_goes_to_the_back_of_the_queue_for_new_ferries/
So who are the winners? Morgan Stanley (who own Bluebridge), and air
freight forms and trucking. Gosh - are we surprised - and all this so
they could afford tax cuts for landlords - as far as the government is
concerned there are no losers! (or perhaps more accurately, no users
that matter to the government . . .)
You just not get a few billion dollars of ferries over night. It takes
several years. This issue was one of successive Governments.
If the Labour Government had not spent up large not needed stuff and the
ferry had not run around all would be fine. No fizzing in the tea cup.
NZ goes to the back of the queue for new ferries after losing
$600-800mn from the cancellation of i-Rex. The new ferries would have
accommodated 40 rail wagons, 3000 lane metres for vehicles, and 1800
passengers accommodating the projected volume increases across the
Straits

The ferries were not the only problem - the wharf at Picton needed a
lot of work, and that was another project stopped by the current
government - fortunately it was nearly finished.

Now we will have to order a new ship at much greater price than the
one that would have been delivered in only a few years . . .
Tony
2024-06-25 02:21:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
Post by Gordon
Post by Rich80105
https://www.thepost.co.nz/politics/350321642/luxon-has-no-regrets-about-cancelling-new-cook-strait-ferries
https://www.reddit.com/r/nzpolitics/comments/1dmxi5p/nz_goes_to_the_back_of_the_queue_for_new_ferries/
So who are the winners? Morgan Stanley (who own Bluebridge), and air
freight forms and trucking. Gosh - are we surprised - and all this so
they could afford tax cuts for landlords - as far as the government is
concerned there are no losers! (or perhaps more accurately, no users
that matter to the government . . .)
You just not get a few billion dollars of ferries over night. It takes
several years. This issue was one of successive Governments.
If the Labour Government had not spent up large not needed stuff and the
ferry had not run around all would be fine. No fizzing in the tea cup.
NZ goes to the back of the queue for new ferries after losing
$600-800mn from the cancellation of i-Rex. The new ferries would have
accommodated 40 rail wagons, 3000 lane metres for vehicles, and 1800
passengers accommodating the projected volume increases across the
Straits
The ferries were not the only problem - the wharf at Picton needed a
lot of work, and that was another project stopped by the current
government - fortunately it was nearly finished.
Now we will have to order a new ship at much greater price than the
one that would have been delivered in only a few years . . .
Wrong, you don't know that - but that does not matter to you does it? Politics
is all you think really have - how sad.
Tony
2024-06-25 00:26:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
https://www.thepost.co.nz/politics/350321642/luxon-has-no-regrets-about-cancelling-new-cook-strait-ferries
https://www.reddit.com/r/nzpolitics/comments/1dmxi5p/nz_goes_to_the_back_of_the_queue_for_new_ferries/
So who are the winners? Morgan Stanley (who own Bluebridge), and air
freight forms and trucking. Gosh - are we surprised - and all this so
they could afford tax cuts for landlords - as far as the government is
concerned there are no losers! (or perhaps more accurately, no users
that matter to the government . . .)
There are no winners obviously.
However if the replacement ferries had not been cancelled the blowout costs
would have amounted to several billion dollars - don't you ever
watch/read/listen to the news?
Also, the same accident would no doubt have happened unless you believe the
butterfly effect.
David Goodwin
2024-06-26 03:45:20 UTC
Permalink
In article <part1of1.1.$***@ue.ph>, ***@orcon.net.nz
says...
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
https://www.thepost.co.nz/politics/350321642/luxon-has-no-regrets-about-cancelling-new-cook-strait-ferries
https://www.reddit.com/r/nzpolitics/comments/1dmxi5p/nz_goes_to_the_back_of_the_queue_for_new_ferries/
So who are the winners? Morgan Stanley (who own Bluebridge), and air
freight forms and trucking. Gosh - are we surprised - and all this so
they could afford tax cuts for landlords - as far as the government is
concerned there are no losers! (or perhaps more accurately, no users
that matter to the government . . .)
There are no winners obviously.
However if the replacement ferries had not been cancelled the blowout costs
would have amounted to several billion dollars - don't you ever
watch/read/listen to the news?
The ferries were a fixed cost - $550m IIRC. The cost blow out was
entirely a result of replacing end of life port infrastructure at both
ends with new ports built to modern earthquake safety standards. Smaller
ferries wouldn't have significantly reduced the costs of this new
infrastructure.

So it's not clear that cost blowout has actually been avoided by
cancelling the new ferries. Sooner or later, someone is still going to
have to pay to replace those terminals, and presumably the replacement
is still going to have to meet the building code.
Post by Tony
Also, the same accident would no doubt have happened unless you believe the
butterfly effect.
Willy Nilly
2024-06-26 06:46:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Goodwin
ends with new ports built to modern earthquake safety standards.
Mate, "modern earthquake safety standards" are a joke. I would remind
you that in the Wellington earthquakes of 2013 & 2016, the "modern"
buildings were the damaged ones, whilst all the old stickered
buildings were undamaged. A couple years ago a big review was
started, and a week ago announced they were throwing out the existing
standards:
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/earthquake-prone-review-will-consider-scrapping-new-building-standard-ratings/MA4DX65PIZB3RMAX4L7AHSA2UE/

In the last 3 years EQ ratings have been continually revised to bring
major buildings into compliance, not because any remedial work has
been done -- no work has been done at all -- but for two main reasons:
(1) the existing rating system is shite, and
(2) the buildings are too important to close down.

The whole building industry is in disarray because their "modern"
earthquake-related work has made building worse, not better. As an
example, the ridiculous BNZ building on the Wellington waterfront,
with its slung-within-the-wall pipes and electricals -- did the
idiotic designers think they would bounce gaily in an earthquake? --
which tore themselves to pieces in the 2013 quake, taking the walls
with them. These things were designed with a schoolchild mentality.
The pre-1980 builders were professionals who built buildings with
interiors hard-secured which survived all the quakes intact, mocking
the EQ stickers placed on them.

You lefties just don't have a clue. Everything you say can be safely
disregarded.
Tony
2024-06-26 07:02:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Goodwin
says...
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Rich80105
https://www.thepost.co.nz/politics/350321642/luxon-has-no-regrets-about-cancelling-new-cook-strait-ferries
https://www.reddit.com/r/nzpolitics/comments/1dmxi5p/nz_goes_to_the_back_of_the_queue_for_new_ferries/
So who are the winners? Morgan Stanley (who own Bluebridge), and air
freight forms and trucking. Gosh - are we surprised - and all this so
they could afford tax cuts for landlords - as far as the government is
concerned there are no losers! (or perhaps more accurately, no users
that matter to the government . . .)
There are no winners obviously.
However if the replacement ferries had not been cancelled the blowout costs
would have amounted to several billion dollars - don't you ever
watch/read/listen to the news?
The ferries were a fixed cost - $550m IIRC. The cost blow out was
entirely a result of replacing end of life port infrastructure at both
ends with new ports built to modern earthquake safety standards. Smaller
ferries wouldn't have significantly reduced the costs of this new
infrastructure.
The new ports development was an essential part of the original, now cancelled
foolishness.
Post by David Goodwin
So it's not clear that cost blowout has actually been avoided by
cancelling the new ferries.
It is to me and many others who are not befuddled by politics.
Post by David Goodwin
Sooner or later, someone is still going to
have to pay to replace those terminals, and presumably the replacement
is still going to have to meet the building code.
Irrelevant since that is something for the future.
Post by David Goodwin
Post by Tony
Also, the same accident would no doubt have happened unless you believe the
butterfly effect.
Rich80105
2024-06-26 10:48:41 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 26 Jun 2024 07:02:03 -0000 (UTC), Tony
Post by Tony
Post by David Goodwin
says...
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Rich80105
https://www.thepost.co.nz/politics/350321642/luxon-has-no-regrets-about-cancelling-new-cook-strait-ferries
https://www.reddit.com/r/nzpolitics/comments/1dmxi5p/nz_goes_to_the_back_of_the_queue_for_new_ferries/
So who are the winners? Morgan Stanley (who own Bluebridge), and air
freight forms and trucking. Gosh - are we surprised - and all this so
they could afford tax cuts for landlords - as far as the government is
concerned there are no losers! (or perhaps more accurately, no users
that matter to the government . . .)
There are no winners obviously.
However if the replacement ferries had not been cancelled the blowout costs
would have amounted to several billion dollars - don't you ever
watch/read/listen to the news?
The ferries were a fixed cost - $550m IIRC. The cost blow out was
entirely a result of replacing end of life port infrastructure at both
ends with new ports built to modern earthquake safety standards. Smaller
ferries wouldn't have significantly reduced the costs of this new
infrastructure.
The new ports development was an essential part of the original, now cancelled
foolishness.
Post by David Goodwin
So it's not clear that cost blowout has actually been avoided by
cancelling the new ferries.
It is to me and many others who are not befuddled by politics.
I do not care why you are befuddled, Tony
Post by Tony
Post by David Goodwin
Sooner or later, someone is still going to
have to pay to replace those terminals, and presumably the replacement
is still going to have to meet the building code.
Irrelevant since that is something for the future.
Post by David Goodwin
Post by Tony
Also, the same accident would no doubt have happened unless you believe the
butterfly effect.
The ship orders were cancelled before the ferry ran aground - all the
ferry grounding showed was that the current vessels are indeed nearing
the end of their life. A bit like you Tony?
Tony
2024-06-26 20:27:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 26 Jun 2024 07:02:03 -0000 (UTC), Tony
Post by Tony
Post by David Goodwin
says...
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Rich80105
https://www.thepost.co.nz/politics/350321642/luxon-has-no-regrets-about-cancelling-new-cook-strait-ferries
https://www.reddit.com/r/nzpolitics/comments/1dmxi5p/nz_goes_to_the_back_of_the_queue_for_new_ferries/
So who are the winners? Morgan Stanley (who own Bluebridge), and air
freight forms and trucking. Gosh - are we surprised - and all this so
they could afford tax cuts for landlords - as far as the government is
concerned there are no losers! (or perhaps more accurately, no users
that matter to the government . . .)
There are no winners obviously.
However if the replacement ferries had not been cancelled the blowout costs
would have amounted to several billion dollars - don't you ever
watch/read/listen to the news?
The ferries were a fixed cost - $550m IIRC. The cost blow out was
entirely a result of replacing end of life port infrastructure at both
ends with new ports built to modern earthquake safety standards. Smaller
ferries wouldn't have significantly reduced the costs of this new
infrastructure.
The new ports development was an essential part of the original, now cancelled
foolishness.
Post by David Goodwin
So it's not clear that cost blowout has actually been avoided by
cancelling the new ferries.
It is to me and many others who are not befuddled by politics.
I do not care why you are befuddled, Tony
Your syntax is appalling. It is you that is the politically driven moron, not
me.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by David Goodwin
Sooner or later, someone is still going to
have to pay to replace those terminals, and presumably the replacement
is still going to have to meet the building code.
Irrelevant since that is something for the future.
Post by David Goodwin
Post by Tony
Also, the same accident would no doubt have happened unless you believe the
butterfly effect.
The ship orders were cancelled before the ferry ran aground - all the
ferry grounding showed was that the current vessels are indeed nearing
the end of their life.
Abuse removed. Irrelevant, poor maintenance, nothing to do with ports - do get
back on topic.
Crash
2024-06-25 04:10:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
https://www.thepost.co.nz/politics/350321642/luxon-has-no-regrets-about-cancelling-new-cook-strait-ferries
https://www.reddit.com/r/nzpolitics/comments/1dmxi5p/nz_goes_to_the_back_of_the_queue_for_new_ferries/
So who are the winners? Morgan Stanley (who own Bluebridge), and air
freight forms and trucking. Gosh - are we surprised - and all this so
they could afford tax cuts for landlords - as far as the government is
concerned there are no losers! (or perhaps more accurately, no users
that matter to the government . . .)
Take a look at the IREX project documentation and you will see that
Kiwirail were encouraged by the Labour Government to go for a
gold-plated upgrade to the Interislander service. They ordered
ferries that could not be berthed at existing ports when expansion
plans for those ports had not even got resource consents let alone
started building. Stupidity or incompetence. Government or Kiwirail
management. Feel free to pair up those four entities.
--
Crash McBash
Rich80105
2024-06-25 04:24:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
https://www.thepost.co.nz/politics/350321642/luxon-has-no-regrets-about-cancelling-new-cook-strait-ferries
https://www.reddit.com/r/nzpolitics/comments/1dmxi5p/nz_goes_to_the_back_of_the_queue_for_new_ferries/
So who are the winners? Morgan Stanley (who own Bluebridge), and air
freight forms and trucking. Gosh - are we surprised - and all this so
they could afford tax cuts for landlords - as far as the government is
concerned there are no losers! (or perhaps more accurately, no users
that matter to the government . . .)
Take a look at the IREX project documentation and you will see that
Kiwirail were encouraged by the Labour Government to go for a
gold-plated upgrade to the Interislander service. They ordered
ferries that could not be berthed at existing ports when expansion
plans for those ports had not even got resource consents let alone
started building. Stupidity or incompetence. Government or Kiwirail
management. Feel free to pair up those four entities.
Still losing $600 to $800 million on withdrawing from the ship
contract is still quite a lot of money.
Tony
2024-06-25 06:52:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
https://www.thepost.co.nz/politics/350321642/luxon-has-no-regrets-about-cancelling-new-cook-strait-ferries
https://www.reddit.com/r/nzpolitics/comments/1dmxi5p/nz_goes_to_the_back_of_the_queue_for_new_ferries/
So who are the winners? Morgan Stanley (who own Bluebridge), and air
freight forms and trucking. Gosh - are we surprised - and all this so
they could afford tax cuts for landlords - as far as the government is
concerned there are no losers! (or perhaps more accurately, no users
that matter to the government . . .)
Take a look at the IREX project documentation and you will see that
Kiwirail were encouraged by the Labour Government to go for a
gold-plated upgrade to the Interislander service. They ordered
ferries that could not be berthed at existing ports when expansion
plans for those ports had not even got resource consents let alone
started building. Stupidity or incompetence. Government or Kiwirail
management. Feel free to pair up those four entities.
Still losing $600 to $800 million on withdrawing from the ship
contract is still quite a lot of money.
Noweere near the massive increase in budgetted cost for the new ships that
forced the cancellation.
As Crash has suggested, incompetence when the original decision was made, and
following from that a necessary decision by this government to fix it.
Rich80105
2024-06-26 03:22:22 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 25 Jun 2024 06:52:51 -0000 (UTC), Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
https://www.thepost.co.nz/politics/350321642/luxon-has-no-regrets-about-cancelling-new-cook-strait-ferries
https://www.reddit.com/r/nzpolitics/comments/1dmxi5p/nz_goes_to_the_back_of_the_queue_for_new_ferries/
So who are the winners? Morgan Stanley (who own Bluebridge), and air
freight forms and trucking. Gosh - are we surprised - and all this so
they could afford tax cuts for landlords - as far as the government is
concerned there are no losers! (or perhaps more accurately, no users
that matter to the government . . .)
Take a look at the IREX project documentation and you will see that
Kiwirail were encouraged by the Labour Government to go for a
gold-plated upgrade to the Interislander service. They ordered
ferries that could not be berthed at existing ports when expansion
plans for those ports had not even got resource consents let alone
started building. Stupidity or incompetence. Government or Kiwirail
management. Feel free to pair up those four entities.
Still losing $600 to $800 million on withdrawing from the ship
contract is still quite a lot of money.
Noweere near the massive increase in budgetted cost for the new ships that
forced the cancellation.
Prove it! The big cost was a projected increase in the cost of the
wharf and wharf facilities.
Post by Tony
As Crash has suggested, incompetence when the original decision was made, and
following from that a necessary decision by this government to fix it.
Except they have made it worse - they lost money on canceling a new
ship - that is money for which we will never receive any value.
Tony
2024-06-26 06:58:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Tue, 25 Jun 2024 06:52:51 -0000 (UTC), Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
https://www.thepost.co.nz/politics/350321642/luxon-has-no-regrets-about-cancelling-new-cook-strait-ferries
https://www.reddit.com/r/nzpolitics/comments/1dmxi5p/nz_goes_to_the_back_of_the_queue_for_new_ferries/
So who are the winners? Morgan Stanley (who own Bluebridge), and air
freight forms and trucking. Gosh - are we surprised - and all this so
they could afford tax cuts for landlords - as far as the government is
concerned there are no losers! (or perhaps more accurately, no users
that matter to the government . . .)
Take a look at the IREX project documentation and you will see that
Kiwirail were encouraged by the Labour Government to go for a
gold-plated upgrade to the Interislander service. They ordered
ferries that could not be berthed at existing ports when expansion
plans for those ports had not even got resource consents let alone
started building. Stupidity or incompetence. Government or Kiwirail
management. Feel free to pair up those four entities.
Still losing $600 to $800 million on withdrawing from the ship
contract is still quite a lot of money.
Noweere near the massive increase in budgetted cost for the new ships that
forced the cancellation.
Prove it! The big cost was a projected increase in the cost of the
wharf and wharf facilities.
An essential part of the project you duplicitous fool.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
As Crash has suggested, incompetence when the original decision was made, and
following from that a necessary decision by this government to fix it.
Except they have made it worse - they lost money on canceling a new
ship - that is money for which we will never receive any value.
No they made it better by preventing the waste of billions of dollars - do you
ever think before you spew all over this newsgroup?
Crash
2024-06-25 07:54:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
https://www.thepost.co.nz/politics/350321642/luxon-has-no-regrets-about-cancelling-new-cook-strait-ferries
https://www.reddit.com/r/nzpolitics/comments/1dmxi5p/nz_goes_to_the_back_of_the_queue_for_new_ferries/
So who are the winners? Morgan Stanley (who own Bluebridge), and air
freight forms and trucking. Gosh - are we surprised - and all this so
they could afford tax cuts for landlords - as far as the government is
concerned there are no losers! (or perhaps more accurately, no users
that matter to the government . . .)
Take a look at the IREX project documentation and you will see that
Kiwirail were encouraged by the Labour Government to go for a
gold-plated upgrade to the Interislander service. They ordered
ferries that could not be berthed at existing ports when expansion
plans for those ports had not even got resource consents let alone
started building. Stupidity or incompetence. Government or Kiwirail
management. Feel free to pair up those four entities.
Still losing $600 to $800 million on withdrawing from the ship
contract is still quite a lot of money.
--
Crash McBash
Crash
2024-06-25 08:00:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
https://www.thepost.co.nz/politics/350321642/luxon-has-no-regrets-about-cancelling-new-cook-strait-ferries
https://www.reddit.com/r/nzpolitics/comments/1dmxi5p/nz_goes_to_the_back_of_the_queue_for_new_ferries/
So who are the winners? Morgan Stanley (who own Bluebridge), and air
freight forms and trucking. Gosh - are we surprised - and all this so
they could afford tax cuts for landlords - as far as the government is
concerned there are no losers! (or perhaps more accurately, no users
that matter to the government . . .)
Take a look at the IREX project documentation and you will see that
Kiwirail were encouraged by the Labour Government to go for a
gold-plated upgrade to the Interislander service. They ordered
ferries that could not be berthed at existing ports when expansion
plans for those ports had not even got resource consents let alone
started building. Stupidity or incompetence. Government or Kiwirail
management. Feel free to pair up those four entities.
Still losing $600 to $800 million on withdrawing from the ship
contract is still quite a lot of money.
Saving billions dwarfs the cost of a project that was never viable and
the subject of multiple blowout cost increases far in excess of the
cost of the cancelled shipbuilding contract.

I note you chose not to comment that the shipbuilding cost was for
ships (ferries) that no existing port could berth. Labour would have
needed fast-track consenting to get the new ports built and even then
not fast enough to have those ports ready for when the new ships
(ferries) arrived. As Homer would say - DOH!
--
Crash McBash
Rich80105
2024-06-26 03:25:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
https://www.thepost.co.nz/politics/350321642/luxon-has-no-regrets-about-cancelling-new-cook-strait-ferries
https://www.reddit.com/r/nzpolitics/comments/1dmxi5p/nz_goes_to_the_back_of_the_queue_for_new_ferries/
So who are the winners? Morgan Stanley (who own Bluebridge), and air
freight forms and trucking. Gosh - are we surprised - and all this so
they could afford tax cuts for landlords - as far as the government is
concerned there are no losers! (or perhaps more accurately, no users
that matter to the government . . .)
Take a look at the IREX project documentation and you will see that
Kiwirail were encouraged by the Labour Government to go for a
gold-plated upgrade to the Interislander service. They ordered
ferries that could not be berthed at existing ports when expansion
plans for those ports had not even got resource consents let alone
started building. Stupidity or incompetence. Government or Kiwirail
management. Feel free to pair up those four entities.
Still losing $600 to $800 million on withdrawing from the ship
contract is still quite a lot of money.
Saving billions dwarfs the cost of a project that was never viable and
the subject of multiple blowout cost increases far in excess of the
cost of the cancelled shipbuilding contract.
I note you chose not to comment that the shipbuilding cost was for
ships (ferries) that no existing port could berth. Labour would have
needed fast-track consenting to get the new ports built and even then
not fast enough to have those ports ready for when the new ships
(ferries) arrived. As Homer would say - DOH!
That was well known from the time the ships were ordered, and much of
the necessary work at the Picton end has been completed. At the
Wellington end they have been building for a new Kaiwhara dock, and
yes there have been questions about that. I have also raised whether
the South Island end should have been moved from Picton. altogether a
mess that neither government can be particularly proud of . . .
Crash
2024-06-26 23:14:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
https://www.thepost.co.nz/politics/350321642/luxon-has-no-regrets-about-cancelling-new-cook-strait-ferries
https://www.reddit.com/r/nzpolitics/comments/1dmxi5p/nz_goes_to_the_back_of_the_queue_for_new_ferries/
So who are the winners? Morgan Stanley (who own Bluebridge), and air
freight forms and trucking. Gosh - are we surprised - and all this so
they could afford tax cuts for landlords - as far as the government is
concerned there are no losers! (or perhaps more accurately, no users
that matter to the government . . .)
It seems that sanity is prevailing with new ships ordering not too far
away:
https://www.1news.co.nz/2024/06/23/govt-advised-to-replace-cook-strait-ferries-with-new-smaller-boats/
--
Crash McBash
Tony
2024-06-26 23:53:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
https://www.thepost.co.nz/politics/350321642/luxon-has-no-regrets-about-cancelling-new-cook-strait-ferries
https://www.reddit.com/r/nzpolitics/comments/1dmxi5p/nz_goes_to_the_back_of_the_queue_for_new_ferries/
So who are the winners? Morgan Stanley (who own Bluebridge), and air
freight forms and trucking. Gosh - are we surprised - and all this so
they could afford tax cuts for landlords - as far as the government is
concerned there are no losers! (or perhaps more accurately, no users
that matter to the government . . .)
It seems that sanity is prevailing with new ships ordering not too far
https://www.1news.co.nz/2024/06/23/govt-advised-to-replace-cook-strait-ferries-with-new-smaller-boats/
Looks like a sound recommendation.
Gordon
2024-06-27 04:29:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
https://www.thepost.co.nz/politics/350321642/luxon-has-no-regrets-about-cancelling-new-cook-strait-ferries
https://www.reddit.com/r/nzpolitics/comments/1dmxi5p/nz_goes_to_the_back_of_the_queue_for_new_ferries/
So who are the winners? Morgan Stanley (who own Bluebridge), and air
freight forms and trucking. Gosh - are we surprised - and all this so
they could afford tax cuts for landlords - as far as the government is
concerned there are no losers! (or perhaps more accurately, no users
that matter to the government . . .)
It seems that sanity is prevailing with new ships ordering not too far
https://www.1news.co.nz/2024/06/23/govt-advised-to-replace-cook-strait-ferries-with-new-smaller-boats/
From the reading of this the advisary board had the recommendations ready
but owing to some "complications" the recommdendations were not acted upon.
Sort of its too hard and it will cost too much. So no action is taken.

It is really amazing how human nature allows no action until a disaster
strikes, even though everyone knows what should be done.

Looks like we are getting back on track and repairing the state highway 1
between Wellington and Picton.
Rich80105
2024-06-27 04:58:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gordon
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
https://www.thepost.co.nz/politics/350321642/luxon-has-no-regrets-about-cancelling-new-cook-strait-ferries
https://www.reddit.com/r/nzpolitics/comments/1dmxi5p/nz_goes_to_the_back_of_the_queue_for_new_ferries/
So who are the winners? Morgan Stanley (who own Bluebridge), and air
freight forms and trucking. Gosh - are we surprised - and all this so
they could afford tax cuts for landlords - as far as the government is
concerned there are no losers! (or perhaps more accurately, no users
that matter to the government . . .)
It seems that sanity is prevailing with new ships ordering not too far
https://www.1news.co.nz/2024/06/23/govt-advised-to-replace-cook-strait-ferries-with-new-smaller-boats/
From the reading of this the advisary board had the recommendations ready
but owing to some "complications" the recommdendations were not acted upon.
Sort of its too hard and it will cost too much. So no action is taken.
It is really amazing how human nature allows no action until a disaster
strikes, even though everyone knows what should be done.
Looks like we are getting back on track and repairing the state highway 1
between Wellington and Picton.
Covered also here with some good analysis:
http://werewolf.co.nz/2024/06/gordon-campbell-on-cancer-drugs-and-the-great-ferries-cancellation-disaster-of-23/
Tony
2024-06-27 06:27:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
Post by Gordon
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
https://www.thepost.co.nz/politics/350321642/luxon-has-no-regrets-about-cancelling-new-cook-strait-ferries
https://www.reddit.com/r/nzpolitics/comments/1dmxi5p/nz_goes_to_the_back_of_the_queue_for_new_ferries/
So who are the winners? Morgan Stanley (who own Bluebridge), and air
freight forms and trucking. Gosh - are we surprised - and all this so
they could afford tax cuts for landlords - as far as the government is
concerned there are no losers! (or perhaps more accurately, no users
that matter to the government . . .)
It seems that sanity is prevailing with new ships ordering not too far
https://www.1news.co.nz/2024/06/23/govt-advised-to-replace-cook-strait-ferries-with-new-smaller-boats/
From the reading of this the advisary board had the recommendations ready
but owing to some "complications" the recommdendations were not acted upon.
Sort of its too hard and it will cost too much. So no action is taken.
It is really amazing how human nature allows no action until a disaster
strikes, even though everyone knows what should be done.
Looks like we are getting back on track and repairing the state highway 1
between Wellington and Picton.
http://werewolf.co.nz/2024/06/gordon-campbell-on-cancer-drugs-and-the-great-ferries-cancellation-disaster-of-23/
Yup, the cancellation was the best possible action. In fact the only sensible
one. Now well understood by sentient beings.
Rich80105
2024-06-27 08:25:42 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 27 Jun 2024 06:27:02 -0000 (UTC), Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Gordon
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
https://www.thepost.co.nz/politics/350321642/luxon-has-no-regrets-about-cancelling-new-cook-strait-ferries
https://www.reddit.com/r/nzpolitics/comments/1dmxi5p/nz_goes_to_the_back_of_the_queue_for_new_ferries/
So who are the winners? Morgan Stanley (who own Bluebridge), and air
freight forms and trucking. Gosh - are we surprised - and all this so
they could afford tax cuts for landlords - as far as the government is
concerned there are no losers! (or perhaps more accurately, no users
that matter to the government . . .)
It seems that sanity is prevailing with new ships ordering not too far
https://www.1news.co.nz/2024/06/23/govt-advised-to-replace-cook-strait-ferries-with-new-smaller-boats/
From the reading of this the advisary board had the recommendations ready
but owing to some "complications" the recommdendations were not acted upon.
Sort of its too hard and it will cost too much. So no action is taken.
It is really amazing how human nature allows no action until a disaster
strikes, even though everyone knows what should be done.
Looks like we are getting back on track and repairing the state highway 1
between Wellington and Picton.
http://werewolf.co.nz/2024/06/gordon-campbell-on-cancer-drugs-and-the-great-ferries-cancellation-disaster-of-23/
Yup, the cancellation was the best possible action. In fact the only sensible
one. Now well understood by sentient beings.
"he decision taken last December to cancel the contract for the two
purpose-built Cook Strait ferries – without having a Plan B in mind,
let alone in place – has been a calamity that’s going to haunt New
Zealand for decades to come, long after the Luxon government has been
consigned to the dustbin of history.

The contract we had signed with South Korea’s giant Hyandfai Mipo
Dockyard had locked in the building cost for ferries large enough (a)
to carry rail economically and (b) carry passengers in relative
comfort. Crucially, the vessels would have been big and sturdy enough
to handle the constant hammering from Cook Strait’s fierce weather
conditions, for the next 30 years or so. The new ferries were due to
start arriving in about 18 -24 months time.

Instead….the ministerial advisory group has recommended that we start
again from scratch and arrange to build smaller boats that won’t be
rail capable. This means that firms will be faced with the extra costs
of the double handling of goods, and/or will have an incentive to put
more goods onto trucks that will (a) generate more carbon emissions,
and (b) cause further costs in road maintenance and (c) pose added
safety risks to motorists who will now be forced to share the
country’s roads with an ever-increasing number of large trucks, for
decades to come.

Moreover, we will be starting out afresh to find foreign shipyards
willing to take on a proven-to-be-unreliable client like New Zealand,
in order to build smaller, less capable, less robust ships at an equal
or even higher price, given the subsequent inflationary pressures.
Besides, we will still need to pay for ferry terminal upgrades that
were the actual source of the alleged cost “blowout” seized on as the
excuse for the cancellation.

Furthermore, we will also have to pay a costly penalty fee for
breaking the original contract, with all the related reputational risk
to this country, at a time when we are looking for shipyards to build
replacements for several of our naval vessels.

Overall, the cancellation decision made by Finance Minister Nicola
Willis is going to end up costing as much – and probably more – once
all of the ancillary costs are put on the tab. At no overall savings,
Willis will have delayed the arrival – by the best part of five years
– of what will be an inferior ferry service across our most important
domestic trade and tourism route. The stupidity and incompetence
surrounding the decision to cancel the ferries order has been
breathtaking. Elsewhere, ministerial resignations have occurred over
far less."

The rest of the article is also worth reading as well . . . .
Crash
2024-06-27 09:21:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 27 Jun 2024 06:27:02 -0000 (UTC), Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Gordon
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
https://www.thepost.co.nz/politics/350321642/luxon-has-no-regrets-about-cancelling-new-cook-strait-ferries
https://www.reddit.com/r/nzpolitics/comments/1dmxi5p/nz_goes_to_the_back_of_the_queue_for_new_ferries/
So who are the winners? Morgan Stanley (who own Bluebridge), and air
freight forms and trucking. Gosh - are we surprised - and all this so
they could afford tax cuts for landlords - as far as the government is
concerned there are no losers! (or perhaps more accurately, no users
that matter to the government . . .)
It seems that sanity is prevailing with new ships ordering not too far
https://www.1news.co.nz/2024/06/23/govt-advised-to-replace-cook-strait-ferries-with-new-smaller-boats/
From the reading of this the advisary board had the recommendations ready
but owing to some "complications" the recommdendations were not acted upon.
Sort of its too hard and it will cost too much. So no action is taken.
It is really amazing how human nature allows no action until a disaster
strikes, even though everyone knows what should be done.
Looks like we are getting back on track and repairing the state highway 1
between Wellington and Picton.
http://werewolf.co.nz/2024/06/gordon-campbell-on-cancer-drugs-and-the-great-ferries-cancellation-disaster-of-23/
Yup, the cancellation was the best possible action. In fact the only sensible
one. Now well understood by sentient beings.
"he decision taken last December to cancel the contract for the two
purpose-built Cook Strait ferries – without having a Plan B in mind,
let alone in place – has been a calamity that’s going to haunt New
Zealand for decades to come, long after the Luxon government has been
consigned to the dustbin of history.
The contract we had signed with South Korea’s giant Hyandfai Mipo
Dockyard had locked in the building cost for ferries large enough (a)
to carry rail economically and (b) carry passengers in relative
comfort. Crucially, the vessels would have been big and sturdy enough
to handle the constant hammering from Cook Strait’s fierce weather
conditions, for the next 30 years or so. The new ferries were due to
start arriving in about 18 -24 months time.
Instead….the ministerial advisory group has recommended that we start
again from scratch and arrange to build smaller boats that won’t be
rail capable. This means that firms will be faced with the extra costs
of the double handling of goods, and/or will have an incentive to put
more goods onto trucks that will (a) generate more carbon emissions,
and (b) cause further costs in road maintenance and (c) pose added
safety risks to motorists who will now be forced to share the
country’s roads with an ever-increasing number of large trucks, for
decades to come.
Moreover, we will be starting out afresh to find foreign shipyards
willing to take on a proven-to-be-unreliable client like New Zealand,
in order to build smaller, less capable, less robust ships at an equal
or even higher price, given the subsequent inflationary pressures.
Besides, we will still need to pay for ferry terminal upgrades that
were the actual source of the alleged cost “blowout” seized on as the
excuse for the cancellation.
Furthermore, we will also have to pay a costly penalty fee for
breaking the original contract, with all the related reputational risk
to this country, at a time when we are looking for shipyards to build
replacements for several of our naval vessels.
Overall, the cancellation decision made by Finance Minister Nicola
Willis is going to end up costing as much – and probably more – once
all of the ancillary costs are put on the tab. At no overall savings,
Willis will have delayed the arrival – by the best part of five years
– of what will be an inferior ferry service across our most important
domestic trade and tourism route. The stupidity and incompetence
surrounding the decision to cancel the ferries order has been
breathtaking. Elsewhere, ministerial resignations have occurred over
far less."
The rest of the article is also worth reading as well . . . .
The fact of the matter remains: ferries were ordered that could not be
berthed at any port. That was an incomprehensible decision that tied
ferry replacement to port upgrades. It should be noted that most of
the current ferries are not 'rail enabled' - but interestingly do have
rail tracks in the floor.

The details are here:

https://www.1news.co.nz/2024/06/23/govt-advised-to-replace-cook-strait-ferries-with-new-smaller-boats/

The new government is taking actions that the old government should
have taken before the new ferries were ordered.
--
Crash McBash
Rich80105
2024-06-27 10:09:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 27 Jun 2024 06:27:02 -0000 (UTC), Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Gordon
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
https://www.thepost.co.nz/politics/350321642/luxon-has-no-regrets-about-cancelling-new-cook-strait-ferries
https://www.reddit.com/r/nzpolitics/comments/1dmxi5p/nz_goes_to_the_back_of_the_queue_for_new_ferries/
So who are the winners? Morgan Stanley (who own Bluebridge), and air
freight forms and trucking. Gosh - are we surprised - and all this so
they could afford tax cuts for landlords - as far as the government is
concerned there are no losers! (or perhaps more accurately, no users
that matter to the government . . .)
It seems that sanity is prevailing with new ships ordering not too far
https://www.1news.co.nz/2024/06/23/govt-advised-to-replace-cook-strait-ferries-with-new-smaller-boats/
From the reading of this the advisary board had the recommendations ready
but owing to some "complications" the recommdendations were not acted upon.
Sort of its too hard and it will cost too much. So no action is taken.
It is really amazing how human nature allows no action until a disaster
strikes, even though everyone knows what should be done.
Looks like we are getting back on track and repairing the state highway 1
between Wellington and Picton.
http://werewolf.co.nz/2024/06/gordon-campbell-on-cancer-drugs-and-the-great-ferries-cancellation-disaster-of-23/
Yup, the cancellation was the best possible action. In fact the only sensible
one. Now well understood by sentient beings.
"he decision taken last December to cancel the contract for the two
purpose-built Cook Strait ferries – without having a Plan B in mind,
let alone in place – has been a calamity that’s going to haunt New
Zealand for decades to come, long after the Luxon government has been
consigned to the dustbin of history.
The contract we had signed with South Korea’s giant Hyandfai Mipo
Dockyard had locked in the building cost for ferries large enough (a)
to carry rail economically and (b) carry passengers in relative
comfort. Crucially, the vessels would have been big and sturdy enough
to handle the constant hammering from Cook Strait’s fierce weather
conditions, for the next 30 years or so. The new ferries were due to
start arriving in about 18 -24 months time.
Instead….the ministerial advisory group has recommended that we start
again from scratch and arrange to build smaller boats that won’t be
rail capable. This means that firms will be faced with the extra costs
of the double handling of goods, and/or will have an incentive to put
more goods onto trucks that will (a) generate more carbon emissions,
and (b) cause further costs in road maintenance and (c) pose added
safety risks to motorists who will now be forced to share the
country’s roads with an ever-increasing number of large trucks, for
decades to come.
Moreover, we will be starting out afresh to find foreign shipyards
willing to take on a proven-to-be-unreliable client like New Zealand,
in order to build smaller, less capable, less robust ships at an equal
or even higher price, given the subsequent inflationary pressures.
Besides, we will still need to pay for ferry terminal upgrades that
were the actual source of the alleged cost “blowout” seized on as the
excuse for the cancellation.
Furthermore, we will also have to pay a costly penalty fee for
breaking the original contract, with all the related reputational risk
to this country, at a time when we are looking for shipyards to build
replacements for several of our naval vessels.
Overall, the cancellation decision made by Finance Minister Nicola
Willis is going to end up costing as much – and probably more – once
all of the ancillary costs are put on the tab. At no overall savings,
Willis will have delayed the arrival – by the best part of five years
– of what will be an inferior ferry service across our most important
domestic trade and tourism route. The stupidity and incompetence
surrounding the decision to cancel the ferries order has been
breathtaking. Elsewhere, ministerial resignations have occurred over
far less."
The rest of the article is also worth reading as well . . . .
The fact of the matter remains: ferries were ordered that could not be
berthed at any port. That was an incomprehensible decision that tied
ferry replacement to port upgrades. It should be noted that most of
the current ferries are not 'rail enabled' - but interestingly do have
rail tracks in the floor.
https://www.1news.co.nz/2024/06/23/govt-advised-to-replace-cook-strait-ferries-with-new-smaller-boats/
The new government is taking actions that the old government should
have taken before the new ferries were ordered.
Possibly, but that was different times, with a government that did not
want to reduce income by twice the cost of the ship through handouts
to landlords. Most of the port work has been completed in Picton.
The Ministerial Group was selected to give the answer that the
government wanted - a bit like the report from Bill English where he
was asked not to talk to the Department . . .
Tony
2024-06-27 20:29:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 27 Jun 2024 06:27:02 -0000 (UTC), Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Gordon
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
https://www.thepost.co.nz/politics/350321642/luxon-has-no-regrets-about-cancelling-new-cook-strait-ferries
https://www.reddit.com/r/nzpolitics/comments/1dmxi5p/nz_goes_to_the_back_of_the_queue_for_new_ferries/
So who are the winners? Morgan Stanley (who own Bluebridge), and air
freight forms and trucking. Gosh - are we surprised - and all this so
they could afford tax cuts for landlords - as far as the government is
concerned there are no losers! (or perhaps more accurately, no users
that matter to the government . . .)
It seems that sanity is prevailing with new ships ordering not too far
https://www.1news.co.nz/2024/06/23/govt-advised-to-replace-cook-strait-ferries-with-new-smaller-boats/
From the reading of this the advisary board had the recommendations ready
but owing to some "complications" the recommdendations were not acted upon.
Sort of its too hard and it will cost too much. So no action is taken.
It is really amazing how human nature allows no action until a disaster
strikes, even though everyone knows what should be done.
Looks like we are getting back on track and repairing the state highway 1
between Wellington and Picton.
http://werewolf.co.nz/2024/06/gordon-campbell-on-cancer-drugs-and-the-great-ferries-cancellation-disaster-of-23/
Yup, the cancellation was the best possible action. In fact the only sensible
one. Now well understood by sentient beings.
"he decision taken last December to cancel the contract for the two
purpose-built Cook Strait ferries – without having a Plan B in mind,
let alone in place – has been a calamity that’s going to haunt New
Zealand for decades to come, long after the Luxon government has been
consigned to the dustbin of history.
The contract we had signed with South Korea’s giant Hyandfai Mipo
Dockyard had locked in the building cost for ferries large enough (a)
to carry rail economically and (b) carry passengers in relative
comfort. Crucially, the vessels would have been big and sturdy enough
to handle the constant hammering from Cook Strait’s fierce weather
conditions, for the next 30 years or so. The new ferries were due to
start arriving in about 18 -24 months time.
Instead….the ministerial advisory group has recommended that we start
again from scratch and arrange to build smaller boats that won’t be
rail capable. This means that firms will be faced with the extra costs
of the double handling of goods, and/or will have an incentive to put
more goods onto trucks that will (a) generate more carbon emissions,
and (b) cause further costs in road maintenance and (c) pose added
safety risks to motorists who will now be forced to share the
country’s roads with an ever-increasing number of large trucks, for
decades to come.
Moreover, we will be starting out afresh to find foreign shipyards
willing to take on a proven-to-be-unreliable client like New Zealand,
in order to build smaller, less capable, less robust ships at an equal
or even higher price, given the subsequent inflationary pressures.
Besides, we will still need to pay for ferry terminal upgrades that
were the actual source of the alleged cost “blowout” seized on as the
excuse for the cancellation.
Furthermore, we will also have to pay a costly penalty fee for
breaking the original contract, with all the related reputational risk
to this country, at a time when we are looking for shipyards to build
replacements for several of our naval vessels.
Overall, the cancellation decision made by Finance Minister Nicola
Willis is going to end up costing as much – and probably more – once
all of the ancillary costs are put on the tab. At no overall savings,
Willis will have delayed the arrival – by the best part of five years
– of what will be an inferior ferry service across our most important
domestic trade and tourism route. The stupidity and incompetence
surrounding the decision to cancel the ferries order has been
breathtaking. Elsewhere, ministerial resignations have occurred over
far less."
The rest of the article is also worth reading as well . . . .
The fact of the matter remains: ferries were ordered that could not be
berthed at any port. That was an incomprehensible decision that tied
ferry replacement to port upgrades. It should be noted that most of
the current ferries are not 'rail enabled' - but interestingly do have
rail tracks in the floor.
https://www.1news.co.nz/2024/06/23/govt-advised-to-replace-cook-strait-ferries-with-new-smaller-boats/
The new government is taking actions that the old government should
have taken before the new ferries were ordered.
Possibly, but that was different times, with a government that did not
want to reduce income by twice the cost of the ship through handouts
to landlords. Most of the port work has been completed in Picton.
The Ministerial Group was selected to give the answer that the
government wanted - a bit like the report from Bill English where he
was asked not to talk to the Department . . .
What absolute nonsense. Pure politicasl rhetoric and lies.
The original decision to purchase the ships was badly flawed. Period.
The cost blowouts began to look astronomical. Period
This government, as any competent government would, did exactly what the
electorate demanded of them and sought a solution to a shambles. Period.
It is no more complex than that.
Do you have any integrity?
Crash
2024-06-27 23:07:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 27 Jun 2024 06:27:02 -0000 (UTC), Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Gordon
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
https://www.thepost.co.nz/politics/350321642/luxon-has-no-regrets-about-cancelling-new-cook-strait-ferries
https://www.reddit.com/r/nzpolitics/comments/1dmxi5p/nz_goes_to_the_back_of_the_queue_for_new_ferries/
So who are the winners? Morgan Stanley (who own Bluebridge), and air
freight forms and trucking. Gosh - are we surprised - and all this so
they could afford tax cuts for landlords - as far as the government is
concerned there are no losers! (or perhaps more accurately, no users
that matter to the government . . .)
It seems that sanity is prevailing with new ships ordering not too far
https://www.1news.co.nz/2024/06/23/govt-advised-to-replace-cook-strait-ferries-with-new-smaller-boats/
From the reading of this the advisary board had the recommendations ready
but owing to some "complications" the recommdendations were not acted upon.
Sort of its too hard and it will cost too much. So no action is taken.
It is really amazing how human nature allows no action until a disaster
strikes, even though everyone knows what should be done.
Looks like we are getting back on track and repairing the state highway 1
between Wellington and Picton.
http://werewolf.co.nz/2024/06/gordon-campbell-on-cancer-drugs-and-the-great-ferries-cancellation-disaster-of-23/
Yup, the cancellation was the best possible action. In fact the only sensible
one. Now well understood by sentient beings.
"he decision taken last December to cancel the contract for the two
purpose-built Cook Strait ferries – without having a Plan B in mind,
let alone in place – has been a calamity that’s going to haunt New
Zealand for decades to come, long after the Luxon government has been
consigned to the dustbin of history.
The contract we had signed with South Korea’s giant Hyandfai Mipo
Dockyard had locked in the building cost for ferries large enough (a)
to carry rail economically and (b) carry passengers in relative
comfort. Crucially, the vessels would have been big and sturdy enough
to handle the constant hammering from Cook Strait’s fierce weather
conditions, for the next 30 years or so. The new ferries were due to
start arriving in about 18 -24 months time.
Instead….the ministerial advisory group has recommended that we start
again from scratch and arrange to build smaller boats that won’t be
rail capable. This means that firms will be faced with the extra costs
of the double handling of goods, and/or will have an incentive to put
more goods onto trucks that will (a) generate more carbon emissions,
and (b) cause further costs in road maintenance and (c) pose added
safety risks to motorists who will now be forced to share the
country’s roads with an ever-increasing number of large trucks, for
decades to come.
Moreover, we will be starting out afresh to find foreign shipyards
willing to take on a proven-to-be-unreliable client like New Zealand,
in order to build smaller, less capable, less robust ships at an equal
or even higher price, given the subsequent inflationary pressures.
Besides, we will still need to pay for ferry terminal upgrades that
were the actual source of the alleged cost “blowout” seized on as the
excuse for the cancellation.
Furthermore, we will also have to pay a costly penalty fee for
breaking the original contract, with all the related reputational risk
to this country, at a time when we are looking for shipyards to build
replacements for several of our naval vessels.
Overall, the cancellation decision made by Finance Minister Nicola
Willis is going to end up costing as much – and probably more – once
all of the ancillary costs are put on the tab. At no overall savings,
Willis will have delayed the arrival – by the best part of five years
– of what will be an inferior ferry service across our most important
domestic trade and tourism route. The stupidity and incompetence
surrounding the decision to cancel the ferries order has been
breathtaking. Elsewhere, ministerial resignations have occurred over
far less."
The rest of the article is also worth reading as well . . . .
The fact of the matter remains: ferries were ordered that could not be
berthed at any port. That was an incomprehensible decision that tied
ferry replacement to port upgrades. It should be noted that most of
the current ferries are not 'rail enabled' - but interestingly do have
rail tracks in the floor.
https://www.1news.co.nz/2024/06/23/govt-advised-to-replace-cook-strait-ferries-with-new-smaller-boats/
The new government is taking actions that the old government should
have taken before the new ferries were ordered.
Possibly, but that was different times, with a government that did not
want to reduce income by twice the cost of the ship through handouts
to landlords.
You are stooping to new lows in your framing of political rhetoric.
You simply don't make sense.
Post by Rich80105
Most of the port work has been completed in Picton.
The Ministerial Group was selected to give the answer that the
government wanted - a bit like the report from Bill English where he
was asked not to talk to the Department . . .
Who would have thought that only non-Labour governments are allegedly
stacking "Ministerial Groups". So you have no substantial rebuttal to
the Governments decisions on Interislander and port upgrades.
--
Crash McBash
Rich80105
2024-06-28 07:44:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 27 Jun 2024 06:27:02 -0000 (UTC), Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Gordon
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
https://www.thepost.co.nz/politics/350321642/luxon-has-no-regrets-about-cancelling-new-cook-strait-ferries
https://www.reddit.com/r/nzpolitics/comments/1dmxi5p/nz_goes_to_the_back_of_the_queue_for_new_ferries/
So who are the winners? Morgan Stanley (who own Bluebridge), and air
freight forms and trucking. Gosh - are we surprised - and all this so
they could afford tax cuts for landlords - as far as the government is
concerned there are no losers! (or perhaps more accurately, no users
that matter to the government . . .)
It seems that sanity is prevailing with new ships ordering not too far
https://www.1news.co.nz/2024/06/23/govt-advised-to-replace-cook-strait-ferries-with-new-smaller-boats/
From the reading of this the advisary board had the recommendations ready
but owing to some "complications" the recommdendations were not acted upon.
Sort of its too hard and it will cost too much. So no action is taken.
It is really amazing how human nature allows no action until a disaster
strikes, even though everyone knows what should be done.
Looks like we are getting back on track and repairing the state highway 1
between Wellington and Picton.
http://werewolf.co.nz/2024/06/gordon-campbell-on-cancer-drugs-and-the-great-ferries-cancellation-disaster-of-23/
Yup, the cancellation was the best possible action. In fact the only sensible
one. Now well understood by sentient beings.
"he decision taken last December to cancel the contract for the two
purpose-built Cook Strait ferries – without having a Plan B in mind,
let alone in place – has been a calamity that’s going to haunt New
Zealand for decades to come, long after the Luxon government has been
consigned to the dustbin of history.
The contract we had signed with South Korea’s giant Hyandfai Mipo
Dockyard had locked in the building cost for ferries large enough (a)
to carry rail economically and (b) carry passengers in relative
comfort. Crucially, the vessels would have been big and sturdy enough
to handle the constant hammering from Cook Strait’s fierce weather
conditions, for the next 30 years or so. The new ferries were due to
start arriving in about 18 -24 months time.
Instead….the ministerial advisory group has recommended that we start
again from scratch and arrange to build smaller boats that won’t be
rail capable. This means that firms will be faced with the extra costs
of the double handling of goods, and/or will have an incentive to put
more goods onto trucks that will (a) generate more carbon emissions,
and (b) cause further costs in road maintenance and (c) pose added
safety risks to motorists who will now be forced to share the
country’s roads with an ever-increasing number of large trucks, for
decades to come.
Moreover, we will be starting out afresh to find foreign shipyards
willing to take on a proven-to-be-unreliable client like New Zealand,
in order to build smaller, less capable, less robust ships at an equal
or even higher price, given the subsequent inflationary pressures.
Besides, we will still need to pay for ferry terminal upgrades that
were the actual source of the alleged cost “blowout” seized on as the
excuse for the cancellation.
Furthermore, we will also have to pay a costly penalty fee for
breaking the original contract, with all the related reputational risk
to this country, at a time when we are looking for shipyards to build
replacements for several of our naval vessels.
Overall, the cancellation decision made by Finance Minister Nicola
Willis is going to end up costing as much – and probably more – once
all of the ancillary costs are put on the tab. At no overall savings,
Willis will have delayed the arrival – by the best part of five years
– of what will be an inferior ferry service across our most important
domestic trade and tourism route. The stupidity and incompetence
surrounding the decision to cancel the ferries order has been
breathtaking. Elsewhere, ministerial resignations have occurred over
far less."
The rest of the article is also worth reading as well . . . .
The fact of the matter remains: ferries were ordered that could not be
berthed at any port. That was an incomprehensible decision that tied
ferry replacement to port upgrades. It should be noted that most of
the current ferries are not 'rail enabled' - but interestingly do have
rail tracks in the floor.
https://www.1news.co.nz/2024/06/23/govt-advised-to-replace-cook-strait-ferries-with-new-smaller-boats/
The new government is taking actions that the old government should
have taken before the new ferries were ordered.
Possibly, but that was different times, with a government that did not
want to reduce income by twice the cost of the ship through handouts
to landlords.
You are stooping to new lows in your framing of political rhetoric.
You simply don't make sense.
Post by Rich80105
Most of the port work has been completed in Picton.
The Ministerial Group was selected to give the answer that the
government wanted - a bit like the report from Bill English where he
was asked not to talk to the Department . . .
Who would have thought that only non-Labour governments are allegedly
stacking "Ministerial Groups". So you have no substantial rebuttal to
the Governments decisions on Interislander and port upgrades.
I already posted the following article - did you read it?
http://werewolf.co.nz/2024/06/gordon-campbell-on-cancer-drugs-and-the-great-ferries-cancellation-disaster-of-23/

try also:
https://x.com/StrayDogNZ/status/1805367790083424632

and to see what deal has been thrown away:
https://x.com/farmgeek/status/1804451225146146950/photo/1

The need for work on the Picton wharf was made more urgent by the
Kaikoura earthquake


As for the stacking of the group asked to give advice on the ferry
replacement, see:
https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/independent-ferry-service-advisory-group-place

which announces the appointment :
“So I’m very pleased to announce the appointment of Nelson Airport
Chief Executive, Mark Thompson as Chair of the Ministerial Advisory
Group. He will be joined by a further two members, Mark Cairns and
Roger Sowry.

“Mark Thompson has had a 30-year career in logistics and transport
operations with senior executive roles in Australasia, the United
States, China and the Philippines, leading public and private service
focused organisations.

“Mark Cairns also brings extensive logistics and transport experience.
He is currently a director of Freightways and Auckland International
Airport . He also has experience in infrastructure, construction,
contracting and capital markets that will be valuable for the advisory
group.

“Roger Sowry is a professional director with considerable governance
expertise. His current and previous director roles span companies in
several sectors including technology, health, infrastructure and
energy. He is also a former Member of Parliament and Cabinet
Minister."

So National appointed the director of an Auckland trucking firm and of
Auckland airport, the Nelson Airport Chief Executive and a former
National; MP. Where is the expertise in either sea or rail?

And how much are we losing from the cancellations?
https://x.com/rugbyintel/status/1805427116936511974
Crash
2024-06-28 10:10:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 27 Jun 2024 06:27:02 -0000 (UTC), Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Gordon
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
https://www.thepost.co.nz/politics/350321642/luxon-has-no-regrets-about-cancelling-new-cook-strait-ferries
https://www.reddit.com/r/nzpolitics/comments/1dmxi5p/nz_goes_to_the_back_of_the_queue_for_new_ferries/
So who are the winners? Morgan Stanley (who own Bluebridge), and air
freight forms and trucking. Gosh - are we surprised - and all this so
they could afford tax cuts for landlords - as far as the government is
concerned there are no losers! (or perhaps more accurately, no users
that matter to the government . . .)
It seems that sanity is prevailing with new ships ordering not too far
https://www.1news.co.nz/2024/06/23/govt-advised-to-replace-cook-strait-ferries-with-new-smaller-boats/
From the reading of this the advisary board had the recommendations ready
but owing to some "complications" the recommdendations were not acted upon.
Sort of its too hard and it will cost too much. So no action is taken.
It is really amazing how human nature allows no action until a disaster
strikes, even though everyone knows what should be done.
Looks like we are getting back on track and repairing the state highway 1
between Wellington and Picton.
http://werewolf.co.nz/2024/06/gordon-campbell-on-cancer-drugs-and-the-great-ferries-cancellation-disaster-of-23/
Yup, the cancellation was the best possible action. In fact the only sensible
one. Now well understood by sentient beings.
"he decision taken last December to cancel the contract for the two
purpose-built Cook Strait ferries – without having a Plan B in mind,
let alone in place – has been a calamity that’s going to haunt New
Zealand for decades to come, long after the Luxon government has been
consigned to the dustbin of history.
The contract we had signed with South Korea’s giant Hyandfai Mipo
Dockyard had locked in the building cost for ferries large enough (a)
to carry rail economically and (b) carry passengers in relative
comfort. Crucially, the vessels would have been big and sturdy enough
to handle the constant hammering from Cook Strait’s fierce weather
conditions, for the next 30 years or so. The new ferries were due to
start arriving in about 18 -24 months time.
Instead….the ministerial advisory group has recommended that we start
again from scratch and arrange to build smaller boats that won’t be
rail capable. This means that firms will be faced with the extra costs
of the double handling of goods, and/or will have an incentive to put
more goods onto trucks that will (a) generate more carbon emissions,
and (b) cause further costs in road maintenance and (c) pose added
safety risks to motorists who will now be forced to share the
country’s roads with an ever-increasing number of large trucks, for
decades to come.
Moreover, we will be starting out afresh to find foreign shipyards
willing to take on a proven-to-be-unreliable client like New Zealand,
in order to build smaller, less capable, less robust ships at an equal
or even higher price, given the subsequent inflationary pressures.
Besides, we will still need to pay for ferry terminal upgrades that
were the actual source of the alleged cost “blowout” seized on as the
excuse for the cancellation.
Furthermore, we will also have to pay a costly penalty fee for
breaking the original contract, with all the related reputational risk
to this country, at a time when we are looking for shipyards to build
replacements for several of our naval vessels.
Overall, the cancellation decision made by Finance Minister Nicola
Willis is going to end up costing as much – and probably more – once
all of the ancillary costs are put on the tab. At no overall savings,
Willis will have delayed the arrival – by the best part of five years
– of what will be an inferior ferry service across our most important
domestic trade and tourism route. The stupidity and incompetence
surrounding the decision to cancel the ferries order has been
breathtaking. Elsewhere, ministerial resignations have occurred over
far less."
The rest of the article is also worth reading as well . . . .
The fact of the matter remains: ferries were ordered that could not be
berthed at any port. That was an incomprehensible decision that tied
ferry replacement to port upgrades. It should be noted that most of
the current ferries are not 'rail enabled' - but interestingly do have
rail tracks in the floor.
https://www.1news.co.nz/2024/06/23/govt-advised-to-replace-cook-strait-ferries-with-new-smaller-boats/
The new government is taking actions that the old government should
have taken before the new ferries were ordered.
Possibly, but that was different times, with a government that did not
want to reduce income by twice the cost of the ship through handouts
to landlords.
You are stooping to new lows in your framing of political rhetoric.
You simply don't make sense.
Post by Rich80105
Most of the port work has been completed in Picton.
The Ministerial Group was selected to give the answer that the
government wanted - a bit like the report from Bill English where he
was asked not to talk to the Department . . .
Who would have thought that only non-Labour governments are allegedly
stacking "Ministerial Groups". So you have no substantial rebuttal to
the Governments decisions on Interislander and port upgrades.
I already posted the following article - did you read it?
http://werewolf.co.nz/2024/06/gordon-campbell-on-cancer-drugs-and-the-great-ferries-cancellation-disaster-of-23/
Political rhetoric devoid of the context that Irex involved ordering
ferries that could not be berthed at existing ports.
Post by Rich80105
https://x.com/StrayDogNZ/status/1805367790083424632
Are you serious? X is not usable as a cite.
Post by Rich80105
https://x.com/farmgeek/status/1804451225146146950/photo/1
See above.
Post by Rich80105
The need for work on the Picton wharf was made more urgent by the
Kaikoura earthquake
Now nearly complete as you have said earlier and not a part of the
government decision to cancel Irex.
Post by Rich80105
As for the stacking of the group asked to give advice on the ferry
https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/independent-ferry-service-advisory-group-place
“So I’m very pleased to announce the appointment of Nelson Airport
Chief Executive, Mark Thompson as Chair of the Ministerial Advisory
Group. He will be joined by a further two members, Mark Cairns and
Roger Sowry.
“Mark Thompson has had a 30-year career in logistics and transport
operations with senior executive roles in Australasia, the United
States, China and the Philippines, leading public and private service
focused organisations.
“Mark Cairns also brings extensive logistics and transport experience.
He is currently a director of Freightways and Auckland International
Airport . He also has experience in infrastructure, construction,
contracting and capital markets that will be valuable for the advisory
group.
“Roger Sowry is a professional director with considerable governance
expertise. His current and previous director roles span companies in
several sectors including technology, health, infrastructure and
energy. He is also a former Member of Parliament and Cabinet
Minister."
So National appointed the director of an Auckland trucking firm and of
Auckland airport, the Nelson Airport Chief Executive and a former
National; MP. Where is the expertise in either sea or rail?
Yeah yeah. So what?
Post by Rich80105
And how much are we losing from the cancellations?
https://x.com/rugbyintel/status/1805427116936511974
See above, but near in mind that the government cancellation of Irex
was because $3.1 billion EXTRA was being sought and that was declined.
It should be noted that the cancelled order had not yet got to a start
on the build so the cost is purely a cancellation of contract, not a
recovery on a started build.

Keep digging yourself into a bigger hole Rich. You have succeeded
only in demonstrating how the last Labour government excelled at
wasting taxpayers money on gold-plated projects subject to
uncontrolled cost blowouts prior to completion.
--
Crash McBash
Rich80105
2024-06-28 10:46:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 27 Jun 2024 06:27:02 -0000 (UTC), Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Gordon
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
https://www.thepost.co.nz/politics/350321642/luxon-has-no-regrets-about-cancelling-new-cook-strait-ferries
https://www.reddit.com/r/nzpolitics/comments/1dmxi5p/nz_goes_to_the_back_of_the_queue_for_new_ferries/
So who are the winners? Morgan Stanley (who own Bluebridge), and air
freight forms and trucking. Gosh - are we surprised - and all this so
they could afford tax cuts for landlords - as far as the government is
concerned there are no losers! (or perhaps more accurately, no users
that matter to the government . . .)
It seems that sanity is prevailing with new ships ordering not too far
https://www.1news.co.nz/2024/06/23/govt-advised-to-replace-cook-strait-ferries-with-new-smaller-boats/
From the reading of this the advisary board had the recommendations ready
but owing to some "complications" the recommdendations were not acted upon.
Sort of its too hard and it will cost too much. So no action is taken.
It is really amazing how human nature allows no action until a disaster
strikes, even though everyone knows what should be done.
Looks like we are getting back on track and repairing the state highway 1
between Wellington and Picton.
http://werewolf.co.nz/2024/06/gordon-campbell-on-cancer-drugs-and-the-great-ferries-cancellation-disaster-of-23/
Yup, the cancellation was the best possible action. In fact the only sensible
one. Now well understood by sentient beings.
"he decision taken last December to cancel the contract for the two
purpose-built Cook Strait ferries – without having a Plan B in mind,
let alone in place – has been a calamity that’s going to haunt New
Zealand for decades to come, long after the Luxon government has been
consigned to the dustbin of history.
The contract we had signed with South Korea’s giant Hyandfai Mipo
Dockyard had locked in the building cost for ferries large enough (a)
to carry rail economically and (b) carry passengers in relative
comfort. Crucially, the vessels would have been big and sturdy enough
to handle the constant hammering from Cook Strait’s fierce weather
conditions, for the next 30 years or so. The new ferries were due to
start arriving in about 18 -24 months time.
Instead….the ministerial advisory group has recommended that we start
again from scratch and arrange to build smaller boats that won’t be
rail capable. This means that firms will be faced with the extra costs
of the double handling of goods, and/or will have an incentive to put
more goods onto trucks that will (a) generate more carbon emissions,
and (b) cause further costs in road maintenance and (c) pose added
safety risks to motorists who will now be forced to share the
country’s roads with an ever-increasing number of large trucks, for
decades to come.
Moreover, we will be starting out afresh to find foreign shipyards
willing to take on a proven-to-be-unreliable client like New Zealand,
in order to build smaller, less capable, less robust ships at an equal
or even higher price, given the subsequent inflationary pressures.
Besides, we will still need to pay for ferry terminal upgrades that
were the actual source of the alleged cost “blowout” seized on as the
excuse for the cancellation.
Furthermore, we will also have to pay a costly penalty fee for
breaking the original contract, with all the related reputational risk
to this country, at a time when we are looking for shipyards to build
replacements for several of our naval vessels.
Overall, the cancellation decision made by Finance Minister Nicola
Willis is going to end up costing as much – and probably more – once
all of the ancillary costs are put on the tab. At no overall savings,
Willis will have delayed the arrival – by the best part of five years
– of what will be an inferior ferry service across our most important
domestic trade and tourism route. The stupidity and incompetence
surrounding the decision to cancel the ferries order has been
breathtaking. Elsewhere, ministerial resignations have occurred over
far less."
The rest of the article is also worth reading as well . . . .
The fact of the matter remains: ferries were ordered that could not be
berthed at any port. That was an incomprehensible decision that tied
ferry replacement to port upgrades. It should be noted that most of
the current ferries are not 'rail enabled' - but interestingly do have
rail tracks in the floor.
https://www.1news.co.nz/2024/06/23/govt-advised-to-replace-cook-strait-ferries-with-new-smaller-boats/
The new government is taking actions that the old government should
have taken before the new ferries were ordered.
Possibly, but that was different times, with a government that did not
want to reduce income by twice the cost of the ship through handouts
to landlords.
You are stooping to new lows in your framing of political rhetoric.
You simply don't make sense.
Post by Rich80105
Most of the port work has been completed in Picton.
The Ministerial Group was selected to give the answer that the
government wanted - a bit like the report from Bill English where he
was asked not to talk to the Department . . .
Who would have thought that only non-Labour governments are allegedly
stacking "Ministerial Groups". So you have no substantial rebuttal to
the Governments decisions on Interislander and port upgrades.
I already posted the following article - did you read it?
http://werewolf.co.nz/2024/06/gordon-campbell-on-cancer-drugs-and-the-great-ferries-cancellation-disaster-of-23/
Political rhetoric devoid of the context that Irex involved ordering
ferries that could not be berthed at existing ports.
The Kaikoura earthquake prompted the need to review quite a lot of
facilities, and one that had some urgency was the Picton wharf and
terminal - I suspect also contributing was various impacts from
ferries over the years. Slightly different considerations led to work
starting on a new site for the ferry terminal in at the Wellington
end.
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
https://x.com/StrayDogNZ/status/1805367790083424632
Are you serious? X is not usable as a cite.
Why not? Just because you don't like what they say, do you dispute
that the video is real?
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
https://x.com/farmgeek/status/1804451225146146950/photo/1
See above.
Same query again
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
The need for work on the Picton wharf was made more urgent by the
Kaikoura earthquake
Now nearly complete as you have said earlier and not a part of the
government decision to cancel Irex.
The cost of those upgrades has been given as part of the reason for
the cancellation of the ships. When you consider the cost for the
order made, it is significantly lower than the likely cost for a new
ship now - the market has changed and costs are higher, and Luxon has
admitted that there will be a $300 million loss on the cancellation.
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
As for the stacking of the group asked to give advice on the ferry
https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/independent-ferry-service-advisory-group-place
“So I’m very pleased to announce the appointment of Nelson Airport
Chief Executive, Mark Thompson as Chair of the Ministerial Advisory
Group. He will be joined by a further two members, Mark Cairns and
Roger Sowry.
“Mark Thompson has had a 30-year career in logistics and transport
operations with senior executive roles in Australasia, the United
States, China and the Philippines, leading public and private service
focused organisations.
“Mark Cairns also brings extensive logistics and transport experience.
He is currently a director of Freightways and Auckland International
Airport . He also has experience in infrastructure, construction,
contracting and capital markets that will be valuable for the advisory
group.
“Roger Sowry is a professional director with considerable governance
expertise. His current and previous director roles span companies in
several sectors including technology, health, infrastructure and
energy. He is also a former Member of Parliament and Cabinet
Minister."
So National appointed the director of an Auckland trucking firm and of
Auckland airport, the Nelson Airport Chief Executive and a former
National; MP. Where is the expertise in either sea or rail?
Yeah yeah. So what?
It is an ''independent'' review in exactly the same way as the recent
Bill English review was a jackup - he was not supposed to speak to the
department, and he gave the conclusions the politicians wanted they
then ignored the facts disclosed which showed that he had been wrong.
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
And how much are we losing from the cancellations?
https://x.com/rugbyintel/status/1805427116936511974
See above, but near in mind that the government cancellation of Irex
was because $3.1 billion EXTRA was being sought and that was declined.
It should be noted that the cancelled order had not yet got to a start
on the build so the cost is purely a cancellation of contract, not a
recovery on a started build.
No, steel had been purchased and stored; and the ships were due to be
delivered in only a few years - work had started. They may well be
able to sell to another purchaser, but there is a net cost to NZ of
around $300 million - confirmed by Luxon. A new order for a different
ship may well take longer, and cost more.
Post by Crash
Keep digging yourself into a bigger hole Rich. You have succeeded
only in demonstrating how the last Labour government excelled at
wasting taxpayers money on gold-plated projects subject to
uncontrolled cost blowouts prior to completion.
Tony
2024-06-28 20:55:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 27 Jun 2024 06:27:02 -0000 (UTC), Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Gordon
On Tue, 25 Jun 2024 11:39:47 +1200, Rich80105
Post by Rich80105
https://www.thepost.co.nz/politics/350321642/luxon-has-no-regrets-about-cancelling-new-cook-strait-ferries
https://www.reddit.com/r/nzpolitics/comments/1dmxi5p/nz_goes_to_the_back_of_the_queue_for_new_ferries/
So who are the winners? Morgan Stanley (who own Bluebridge), and air
freight forms and trucking. Gosh - are we surprised - and all this so
they could afford tax cuts for landlords - as far as the government is
concerned there are no losers! (or perhaps more accurately, no users
that matter to the government . . .)
It seems that sanity is prevailing with new ships ordering not too far
https://www.1news.co.nz/2024/06/23/govt-advised-to-replace-cook-strait-ferries-with-new-smaller-boats/
From the reading of this the advisary board had the recommendations ready
but owing to some "complications" the recommdendations were not acted upon.
Sort of its too hard and it will cost too much. So no action is taken.
It is really amazing how human nature allows no action until a disaster
strikes, even though everyone knows what should be done.
Looks like we are getting back on track and repairing the state highway 1
between Wellington and Picton.
http://werewolf.co.nz/2024/06/gordon-campbell-on-cancer-drugs-and-the-great-ferries-cancellation-disaster-of-23/
Yup, the cancellation was the best possible action. In fact the only sensible
one. Now well understood by sentient beings.
"he decision taken last December to cancel the contract for the two
purpose-built Cook Strait ferries – without having a Plan B in mind,
let alone in place – has been a calamity that’s going to haunt New
Zealand for decades to come, long after the Luxon government has been
consigned to the dustbin of history.
The contract we had signed with South Korea’s giant Hyandfai Mipo
Dockyard had locked in the building cost for ferries large enough (a)
to carry rail economically and (b) carry passengers in relative
comfort. Crucially, the vessels would have been big and sturdy enough
to handle the constant hammering from Cook Strait’s fierce weather
conditions, for the next 30 years or so. The new ferries were due to
start arriving in about 18 -24 months time.
Instead….the ministerial advisory group has recommended that we start
again from scratch and arrange to build smaller boats that won’t be
rail capable. This means that firms will be faced with the extra costs
of the double handling of goods, and/or will have an incentive to put
more goods onto trucks that will (a) generate more carbon emissions,
and (b) cause further costs in road maintenance and (c) pose added
safety risks to motorists who will now be forced to share the
country’s roads with an ever-increasing number of large trucks, for
decades to come.
Moreover, we will be starting out afresh to find foreign shipyards
willing to take on a proven-to-be-unreliable client like New Zealand,
in order to build smaller, less capable, less robust ships at an equal
or even higher price, given the subsequent inflationary pressures.
Besides, we will still need to pay for ferry terminal upgrades that
were the actual source of the alleged cost “blowout” seized on as the
excuse for the cancellation.
Furthermore, we will also have to pay a costly penalty fee for
breaking the original contract, with all the related reputational risk
to this country, at a time when we are looking for shipyards to build
replacements for several of our naval vessels.
Overall, the cancellation decision made by Finance Minister Nicola
Willis is going to end up costing as much – and probably more – once
all of the ancillary costs are put on the tab. At no overall savings,
Willis will have delayed the arrival – by the best part of five years
– of what will be an inferior ferry service across our most important
domestic trade and tourism route. The stupidity and incompetence
surrounding the decision to cancel the ferries order has been
breathtaking. Elsewhere, ministerial resignations have occurred over
far less."
The rest of the article is also worth reading as well . . . .
The fact of the matter remains: ferries were ordered that could not be
berthed at any port. That was an incomprehensible decision that tied
ferry replacement to port upgrades. It should be noted that most of
the current ferries are not 'rail enabled' - but interestingly do have
rail tracks in the floor.
https://www.1news.co.nz/2024/06/23/govt-advised-to-replace-cook-strait-ferries-with-new-smaller-boats/
The new government is taking actions that the old government should
have taken before the new ferries were ordered.
Possibly, but that was different times, with a government that did not
want to reduce income by twice the cost of the ship through handouts
to landlords.
You are stooping to new lows in your framing of political rhetoric.
You simply don't make sense.
Post by Rich80105
Most of the port work has been completed in Picton.
The Ministerial Group was selected to give the answer that the
government wanted - a bit like the report from Bill English where he
was asked not to talk to the Department . . .
Who would have thought that only non-Labour governments are allegedly
stacking "Ministerial Groups". So you have no substantial rebuttal to
the Governments decisions on Interislander and port upgrades.
I already posted the following article - did you read it?
http://werewolf.co.nz/2024/06/gordon-campbell-on-cancer-drugs-and-the-great-ferries-cancellation-disaster-of-23/
Political rhetoric devoid of the context that Irex involved ordering
ferries that could not be berthed at existing ports.
The Kaikoura earthquake prompted the need to review quite a lot of
facilities, and one that had some urgency was the Picton wharf and
terminal - I suspect also contributing was various impacts from
ferries over the years. Slightly different considerations led to work
starting on a new site for the ferry terminal in at the Wellington
end.
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
https://x.com/StrayDogNZ/status/1805367790083424632
Are you serious? X is not usable as a cite.
Why not? Just because you don't like what they say, do you dispute
that the video is real?
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
https://x.com/farmgeek/status/1804451225146146950/photo/1
See above.
Same query again
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
The need for work on the Picton wharf was made more urgent by the
Kaikoura earthquake
Now nearly complete as you have said earlier and not a part of the
government decision to cancel Irex.
The cost of those upgrades has been given as part of the reason for
the cancellation of the ships. When you consider the cost for the
order made, it is significantly lower than the likely cost for a new
ship now - the market has changed and costs are higher, and Luxon has
admitted that there will be a $300 million loss on the cancellation.
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
As for the stacking of the group asked to give advice on the ferry
https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/independent-ferry-service-advisory-group-place
“So I’m very pleased to announce the appointment of Nelson Airport
Chief Executive, Mark Thompson as Chair of the Ministerial Advisory
Group. He will be joined by a further two members, Mark Cairns and
Roger Sowry.
“Mark Thompson has had a 30-year career in logistics and transport
operations with senior executive roles in Australasia, the United
States, China and the Philippines, leading public and private service
focused organisations.
“Mark Cairns also brings extensive logistics and transport experience.
He is currently a director of Freightways and Auckland International
Airport . He also has experience in infrastructure, construction,
contracting and capital markets that will be valuable for the advisory
group.
“Roger Sowry is a professional director with considerable governance
expertise. His current and previous director roles span companies in
several sectors including technology, health, infrastructure and
energy. He is also a former Member of Parliament and Cabinet
Minister."
So National appointed the director of an Auckland trucking firm and of
Auckland airport, the Nelson Airport Chief Executive and a former
National; MP. Where is the expertise in either sea or rail?
Yeah yeah. So what?
It is an ''independent'' review in exactly the same way as the recent
Bill English review was a jackup - he was not supposed to speak to the
department, and he gave the conclusions the politicians wanted they
then ignored the facts disclosed which showed that he had been wrong.
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
And how much are we losing from the cancellations?
https://x.com/rugbyintel/status/1805427116936511974
See above, but near in mind that the government cancellation of Irex
was because $3.1 billion EXTRA was being sought and that was declined.
It should be noted that the cancelled order had not yet got to a start
on the build so the cost is purely a cancellation of contract, not a
recovery on a started build.
No, steel had been purchased and stored; and the ships were due to be
delivered in only a few years - work had started. They may well be
able to sell to another purchaser, but there is a net cost to NZ of
around $300 million - confirmed by Luxon. A new order for a different
ship may well take longer, and cost more.
And may not. You are guessing.
Just about everything els you have twisted onto here is off topic.
The original deal had a cost blowout of more than $3B. Fact. It had to be
cancelled because it was a terrible deal. Fact,
Post by Rich80105
Post by Crash
Keep digging yourself into a bigger hole Rich. You have succeeded
only in demonstrating how the last Labour government excelled at
wasting taxpayers money on gold-plated projects subject to
uncontrolled cost blowouts prior to completion.
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