Discussion:
An Electricity Innovation
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Rich80105
2024-12-09 03:25:23 UTC
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https://thekaka.substack.com/p/tkp-2650-solutions-a-new-home-without?utm_source=podcast-email&publication_id=102473&post_id=152644767

This may be quite limited at present, but certainly worth watching . .
.
Gordon
2024-12-09 03:46:30 UTC
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Post by Rich80105
https://thekaka.substack.com/p/tkp-2650-solutions-a-new-home-without?utm_source=podcast-email&publication_id=102473&post_id=152644767
This may be quite limited at present, but certainly worth watching . .
.
This has the generalsation factor but needs more data/details in the
existing installed places. The details from an independent person.

Note the contract is only for 5 years, then what happens? Maybe all good
maybe heck this is my/the owners problem.
Mutley
2024-12-09 19:06:26 UTC
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Post by Gordon
Post by Rich80105
https://thekaka.substack.com/p/tkp-2650-solutions-a-new-home-without?utm_source=podcast-email&publication_id=102473&post_id=152644767
This may be quite limited at present, but certainly worth watching . .
.
This has the generalsation factor but needs more data/details in the
existing installed places. The details from an independent person.
Note the contract is only for 5 years, then what happens? Maybe all good
maybe heck this is my/the owners problem.
",I interviewed Octopus Energy Zero Bills Technical Director Nigel
Banks from the UK about this week's launch in New Zealand of a
partnership with Classic Homes to build new homes in Auckland1 with
enough solar panels and batteries that can sell enough power back into
the grid that the homeowner doesn’t have to pay a power bill for at
least five years."

That tells me that they have a network connection. I assume they
are paying line charges or is that covered by the power they sell
back.
Yes what happens after 5 years??
Your Name
2024-12-09 21:52:28 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Mutley
Post by Gordon
Post by Rich80105
https://thekaka.substack.com/p/tkp-2650-solutions-a-new-home-without?utm_source=podcast-email&publication_id=102473&post_id=152644767
This may be quite limited at present, but certainly worth watching ...
This has the generalsation factor but needs more data/details in the
existing installed places. The details from an independent person.
Note the contract is only for 5 years, then what happens? Maybe all good
maybe heck this is my/the owners problem.
",I interviewed Octopus Energy Zero Bills Technical Director Nigel
Banks from the UK about this week's launch in New Zealand of a
partnership with Classic Homes to build new homes in Auckland1 with
enough solar panels and batteries that can sell enough power back into
the grid that the homeowner doesn’t have to pay a power bill for at
least five years."
Such scams ... err, "schemes", have already proven multiple times to be
hopelessly flawed and not work for the home owner. The power companies
simply aren't interested in buying electricity from home owners and at
best pay out a miniscule amount of money that means it's not worth the
home owner bothering. It depdnds on the website, the soalr company, the
power comapnies, and the equipment, but Mr Google says the typical
solar system pays for itself "within seven years".
Post by Mutley
That tells me that they have a network connection. I assume they
are paying line charges or is that covered by the power they sell
back.
Yes what happens after 5 years??
After five years the home owner is then likely to be paying out massive
amounts of money to replace the batteries (5-15 years), the inverter
(12-15 years), and solar panels (25-30 years) ... or paying out a new
contract with the solar company for maintenaance and replacements. Of
course, by then the prices for those components will all have gone up.
Plus, that assumes the solar company even lasts the five years - see
the recent news of SolarZero going into liquidation because their
"scheme" didn't work!

Compared to regular grid-supply electricity where most home owners
usually don't have to pay anything at all in on-going maintenance /
replacements, unless something goes badly wrong.
Rich80105
2024-12-10 00:46:18 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Your Name
Post by Mutley
Post by Gordon
Post by Rich80105
https://thekaka.substack.com/p/tkp-2650-solutions-a-new-home-without?utm_source=podcast-email&publication_id=102473&post_id=152644767
This may be quite limited at present, but certainly worth watching ...
This has the generalsation factor but needs more data/details in the
existing installed places. The details from an independent person.
Note the contract is only for 5 years, then what happens? Maybe all good
maybe heck this is my/the owners problem.
",I interviewed Octopus Energy Zero Bills Technical Director Nigel
Banks from the UK about this week's launch in New Zealand of a
partnership with Classic Homes to build new homes in Auckland1 with
enough solar panels and batteries that can sell enough power back into
the grid that the homeowner doesn’t have to pay a power bill for at
least five years."
Such scams ... err, "schemes", have already proven multiple times to be
hopelessly flawed and not work for the home owner. The power companies
simply aren't interested in buying electricity from home owners and at
best pay out a miniscule amount of money that means it's not worth the
home owner bothering. It depdnds on the website, the soalr company, the
power comapnies, and the equipment, but Mr Google says the typical
solar system pays for itself "within seven years".
Post by Mutley
That tells me that they have a network connection. I assume they
are paying line charges or is that covered by the power they sell
back.
Yes what happens after 5 years??
After five years the home owner is then likely to be paying out massive
amounts of money to replace the batteries (5-15 years), the inverter
(12-15 years), and solar panels (25-30 years) ... or paying out a new
contract with the solar company for maintenaance and replacements. Of
course, by then the prices for those components will all have gone up.
Plus, that assumes the solar company even lasts the five years - see
the recent news of SolarZero going into liquidation because their
"scheme" didn't work!
Compared to regular grid-supply electricity where most home owners
usually don't have to pay anything at all in on-going maintenance /
replacements, unless something goes badly wrong.
You raise reasonable issues, some of which may be easily answered by
the company. Our electricity is currently more expensive than
necessary due to the "Bradford reforms" under a previous National
Government that has led to very high profits to the Gentailers - to
the extent that even the current government has apparently raised the
possibility of initiating generation other than through those
companies. The "value added" from the company spoken to in the link
appears to be a system of computerised direction for usage that
enables for example charging of a vehicle when charges are most likely
to be low, but able to be over-ridden by direction of the vehicle
owner - for example by directing a desired time for full charge.

The important issue is that if we had a perfectly efficient system
there would be little need for such services on a commercial basis; it
highlights that New Zealand is well behind in use of solar power for
particular needs. As I said, certainly worth watching.
Your Name
2024-12-10 02:24:01 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
Post by Your Name
Post by Mutley
Post by Gordon
Post by Rich80105
https://thekaka.substack.com/p/tkp-2650-solutions-a-new-home-without?utm_source=podcast-email&publication_id=102473&post_id=152644767
This may be quite limited at present, but certainly worth watching ...
This has the generalsation factor but needs more data/details in the
existing installed places. The details from an independent person.
Note the contract is only for 5 years, then what happens? Maybe all good
maybe heck this is my/the owners problem.
",I interviewed Octopus Energy Zero Bills Technical Director Nigel
Banks from the UK about this week's launch in New Zealand of a
partnership with Classic Homes to build new homes in Auckland1 with
enough solar panels and batteries that can sell enough power back into
the grid that the homeowner doesn’t have to pay a power bill for at
least five years."
Such scams ... err, "schemes", have already proven multiple times to be
hopelessly flawed and not work for the home owner. The power companies
simply aren't interested in buying electricity from home owners and at
best pay out a miniscule amount of money that means it's not worth the
home owner bothering. It depdnds on the website, the soalr company, the
power comapnies, and the equipment, but Mr Google says the typical
solar system pays for itself "within seven years".
Post by Mutley
That tells me that they have a network connection. I assume they
are paying line charges or is that covered by the power they sell
back.
Yes what happens after 5 years??
After five years the home owner is then likely to be paying out massive
amounts of money to replace the batteries (5-15 years), the inverter
(12-15 years), and solar panels (25-30 years) ... or paying out a new
contract with the solar company for maintenaance and replacements. Of
course, by then the prices for those components will all have gone up.
Plus, that assumes the solar company even lasts the five years - see
the recent news of SolarZero going into liquidation because their
"scheme" didn't work!
Compared to regular grid-supply electricity where most home owners
usually don't have to pay anything at all in on-going maintenance /
replacements, unless something goes badly wrong.
You raise reasonable issues, some of which may be easily answered by
the company. Our electricity is currently more expensive than
necessary due to the "Bradford reforms" under a previous National
Government that has led to very high profits to the Gentailers - to
the extent that even the current government has apparently raised the
possibility of initiating generation other than through those
companies. The "value added" from the company spoken to in the link
appears to be a system of computerised direction for usage that
enables for example charging of a vehicle when charges are most likely
to be low, but able to be over-ridden by direction of the vehicle
owner - for example by directing a desired time for full charge.
Electricity is electricity. The fact that the companies charge more at
"peak times" is nothing other than pure greediness, like all the
idiotic "supply and demand" nonsense.

Electricity (and water, and waste removeal) should be government /
council run at minimal profit for infrastructure, not run by private
companies simply out to fill management and shareholder pockets.
Post by Rich80105
The important issue is that if we had a perfectly efficient system
there would be little need for such services on a commercial basis; it
highlights that New Zealand is well behind in use of solar power for
particular needs. As I said, certainly worth watching.
Solar power isn't efficient. It is also nowhere near as good for the
environment as the blinkered Greenies like to believe - the making and
disposal of the solar panels is highly polluting, let alone the
batteries to store that energy for when it needed at night.

Similarly with all the other ill-thought-out Greenie ideas such as
silly wind turbines, wave turbines, etc. which are a huge visual
pollution issue as well.
Tony
2024-12-10 02:50:37 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Your Name
Post by Rich80105
Post by Your Name
Post by Mutley
Post by Gordon
Post by Rich80105
https://thekaka.substack.com/p/tkp-2650-solutions-a-new-home-without?utm_source=podcast-email&publication_id=102473&post_id=152644767
This may be quite limited at present, but certainly worth watching ...
This has the generalsation factor but needs more data/details in the
existing installed places. The details from an independent person.
Note the contract is only for 5 years, then what happens? Maybe all good
maybe heck this is my/the owners problem.
",I interviewed Octopus Energy Zero Bills Technical Director Nigel
Banks from the UK about this week's launch in New Zealand of a
partnership with Classic Homes to build new homes in Auckland1 with
enough solar panels and batteries that can sell enough power back into
the grid that the homeowner doesn’t have to pay a power bill for at
least five years."
Such scams ... err, "schemes", have already proven multiple times to be
hopelessly flawed and not work for the home owner. The power companies
simply aren't interested in buying electricity from home owners and at
best pay out a miniscule amount of money that means it's not worth the
home owner bothering. It depdnds on the website, the soalr company, the
power comapnies, and the equipment, but Mr Google says the typical
solar system pays for itself "within seven years".
Post by Mutley
That tells me that they have a network connection. I assume they
are paying line charges or is that covered by the power they sell
back.
Yes what happens after 5 years??
After five years the home owner is then likely to be paying out massive
amounts of money to replace the batteries (5-15 years), the inverter
(12-15 years), and solar panels (25-30 years) ... or paying out a new
contract with the solar company for maintenaance and replacements. Of
course, by then the prices for those components will all have gone up.
Plus, that assumes the solar company even lasts the five years - see
the recent news of SolarZero going into liquidation because their
"scheme" didn't work!
Compared to regular grid-supply electricity where most home owners
usually don't have to pay anything at all in on-going maintenance /
replacements, unless something goes badly wrong.
You raise reasonable issues, some of which may be easily answered by
the company. Our electricity is currently more expensive than
necessary due to the "Bradford reforms" under a previous National
Government that has led to very high profits to the Gentailers - to
the extent that even the current government has apparently raised the
possibility of initiating generation other than through those
companies. The "value added" from the company spoken to in the link
appears to be a system of computerised direction for usage that
enables for example charging of a vehicle when charges are most likely
to be low, but able to be over-ridden by direction of the vehicle
owner - for example by directing a desired time for full charge.
Electricity is electricity. The fact that the companies charge more at
"peak times" is nothing other than pure greediness, like all the
idiotic "supply and demand" nonsense.
Electricity (and water, and waste removeal) should be government /
council run at minimal profit for infrastructure, not run by private
companies simply out to fill management and shareholder pockets.
Post by Rich80105
The important issue is that if we had a perfectly efficient system
there would be little need for such services on a commercial basis; it
highlights that New Zealand is well behind in use of solar power for
particular needs. As I said, certainly worth watching.
Solar power isn't efficient. It is also nowhere near as good for the
environment as the blinkered Greenies like to believe - the making and
disposal of the solar panels is highly polluting, let alone the
batteries to store that energy for when it needed at night.
Similarly with all the other ill-thought-out Greenie ideas such as
silly wind turbines, wave turbines, etc. which are a huge visual
pollution issue as well.
Well said. All thinking people would agree I believe. Wind turbine blades have
a limited life also and are currntly hard to repurpose.
So-called green electricity is a myth until there are some major scientuific
developments.
Mutley
2024-12-11 00:45:16 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
Post by Your Name
Post by Mutley
Post by Gordon
Post by Rich80105
https://thekaka.substack.com/p/tkp-2650-solutions-a-new-home-without?utm_source=podcast-email&publication_id=102473&post_id=152644767
This may be quite limited at present, but certainly worth watching ...
This has the generalsation factor but needs more data/details in the
existing installed places. The details from an independent person.
Note the contract is only for 5 years, then what happens? Maybe all good
maybe heck this is my/the owners problem.
",I interviewed Octopus Energy Zero Bills Technical Director Nigel
Banks from the UK about this week's launch in New Zealand of a
partnership with Classic Homes to build new homes in Auckland1 with
enough solar panels and batteries that can sell enough power back into
the grid that the homeowner doesn’t have to pay a power bill for at
least five years."
Such scams ... err, "schemes", have already proven multiple times to be
hopelessly flawed and not work for the home owner. The power companies
simply aren't interested in buying electricity from home owners and at
best pay out a miniscule amount of money that means it's not worth the
home owner bothering. It depdnds on the website, the soalr company, the
power comapnies, and the equipment, but Mr Google says the typical
solar system pays for itself "within seven years".
Post by Mutley
That tells me that they have a network connection. I assume they
are paying line charges or is that covered by the power they sell
back.
Yes what happens after 5 years??
After five years the home owner is then likely to be paying out massive
amounts of money to replace the batteries (5-15 years), the inverter
(12-15 years), and solar panels (25-30 years) ... or paying out a new
contract with the solar company for maintenaance and replacements. Of
course, by then the prices for those components will all have gone up.
Plus, that assumes the solar company even lasts the five years - see
the recent news of SolarZero going into liquidation because their
"scheme" didn't work!
Compared to regular grid-supply electricity where most home owners
usually don't have to pay anything at all in on-going maintenance /
replacements, unless something goes badly wrong.
You raise reasonable issues, some of which may be easily answered by
the company. Our electricity is currently more expensive than
necessary due to the "Bradford reforms" under a previous National
Government that has led to very high profits to the Gentailers - to
the extent that even the current government has apparently raised the
possibility of initiating generation other than through those
companies. The "value added" from the company spoken to in the link
appears to be a system of computerised direction for usage that
enables for example charging of a vehicle when charges are most likely
to be low, but able to be over-ridden by direction of the vehicle
owner - for example by directing a desired time for full charge.
The important issue is that if we had a perfectly efficient system
there would be little need for such services on a commercial basis; it
highlights that New Zealand is well behind in use of solar power for
particular needs. As I said, certainly worth watching.
And your darling Helen Clark got in to government right after these
Bradford reforms and did nothing about them except make lots of noise
leading up to the election. Blame yourself for them still being
there.
Rich80105
2024-12-11 03:06:48 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Mutley
Post by Rich80105
Post by Your Name
Post by Mutley
Post by Gordon
Post by Rich80105
https://thekaka.substack.com/p/tkp-2650-solutions-a-new-home-without?utm_source=podcast-email&publication_id=102473&post_id=152644767
This may be quite limited at present, but certainly worth watching ...
This has the generalsation factor but needs more data/details in the
existing installed places. The details from an independent person.
Note the contract is only for 5 years, then what happens? Maybe all good
maybe heck this is my/the owners problem.
",I interviewed Octopus Energy Zero Bills Technical Director Nigel
Banks from the UK about this week's launch in New Zealand of a
partnership with Classic Homes to build new homes in Auckland1 with
enough solar panels and batteries that can sell enough power back into
the grid that the homeowner doesn’t have to pay a power bill for at
least five years."
Such scams ... err, "schemes", have already proven multiple times to be
hopelessly flawed and not work for the home owner. The power companies
simply aren't interested in buying electricity from home owners and at
best pay out a miniscule amount of money that means it's not worth the
home owner bothering. It depdnds on the website, the soalr company, the
power comapnies, and the equipment, but Mr Google says the typical
solar system pays for itself "within seven years".
Post by Mutley
That tells me that they have a network connection. I assume they
are paying line charges or is that covered by the power they sell
back.
Yes what happens after 5 years??
After five years the home owner is then likely to be paying out massive
amounts of money to replace the batteries (5-15 years), the inverter
(12-15 years), and solar panels (25-30 years) ... or paying out a new
contract with the solar company for maintenaance and replacements. Of
course, by then the prices for those components will all have gone up.
Plus, that assumes the solar company even lasts the five years - see
the recent news of SolarZero going into liquidation because their
"scheme" didn't work!
Compared to regular grid-supply electricity where most home owners
usually don't have to pay anything at all in on-going maintenance /
replacements, unless something goes badly wrong.
You raise reasonable issues, some of which may be easily answered by
the company. Our electricity is currently more expensive than
necessary due to the "Bradford reforms" under a previous National
Government that has led to very high profits to the Gentailers - to
the extent that even the current government has apparently raised the
possibility of initiating generation other than through those
companies. The "value added" from the company spoken to in the link
appears to be a system of computerised direction for usage that
enables for example charging of a vehicle when charges are most likely
to be low, but able to be over-ridden by direction of the vehicle
owner - for example by directing a desired time for full charge.
The important issue is that if we had a perfectly efficient system
there would be little need for such services on a commercial basis; it
highlights that New Zealand is well behind in use of solar power for
particular needs. As I said, certainly worth watching.
And your darling Helen Clark got in to government right after these
Bradford reforms and did nothing about them except make lots of noise
leading up to the election. Blame yourself for them still being
there.
You make a fair point, Mutley - the structure has persisted despite
governments of both the right and left understanding that they were a
huge mistake. What would you suggest be done?
Crash
2024-12-11 06:42:22 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
Post by Mutley
Post by Rich80105
Post by Your Name
Post by Mutley
Post by Gordon
Post by Rich80105
https://thekaka.substack.com/p/tkp-2650-solutions-a-new-home-without?utm_source=podcast-email&publication_id=102473&post_id=152644767
This may be quite limited at present, but certainly worth watching ...
This has the generalsation factor but needs more data/details in the
existing installed places. The details from an independent person.
Note the contract is only for 5 years, then what happens? Maybe all good
maybe heck this is my/the owners problem.
",I interviewed Octopus Energy Zero Bills Technical Director Nigel
Banks from the UK about this week's launch in New Zealand of a
partnership with Classic Homes to build new homes in Auckland1 with
enough solar panels and batteries that can sell enough power back into
the grid that the homeowner doesn’t have to pay a power bill for at
least five years."
Such scams ... err, "schemes", have already proven multiple times to be
hopelessly flawed and not work for the home owner. The power companies
simply aren't interested in buying electricity from home owners and at
best pay out a miniscule amount of money that means it's not worth the
home owner bothering. It depdnds on the website, the soalr company, the
power comapnies, and the equipment, but Mr Google says the typical
solar system pays for itself "within seven years".
Post by Mutley
That tells me that they have a network connection. I assume they
are paying line charges or is that covered by the power they sell
back.
Yes what happens after 5 years??
After five years the home owner is then likely to be paying out massive
amounts of money to replace the batteries (5-15 years), the inverter
(12-15 years), and solar panels (25-30 years) ... or paying out a new
contract with the solar company for maintenaance and replacements. Of
course, by then the prices for those components will all have gone up.
Plus, that assumes the solar company even lasts the five years - see
the recent news of SolarZero going into liquidation because their
"scheme" didn't work!
Compared to regular grid-supply electricity where most home owners
usually don't have to pay anything at all in on-going maintenance /
replacements, unless something goes badly wrong.
You raise reasonable issues, some of which may be easily answered by
the company. Our electricity is currently more expensive than
necessary due to the "Bradford reforms" under a previous National
Government that has led to very high profits to the Gentailers - to
the extent that even the current government has apparently raised the
possibility of initiating generation other than through those
companies. The "value added" from the company spoken to in the link
appears to be a system of computerised direction for usage that
enables for example charging of a vehicle when charges are most likely
to be low, but able to be over-ridden by direction of the vehicle
owner - for example by directing a desired time for full charge.
The important issue is that if we had a perfectly efficient system
there would be little need for such services on a commercial basis; it
highlights that New Zealand is well behind in use of solar power for
particular needs. As I said, certainly worth watching.
And your darling Helen Clark got in to government right after these
Bradford reforms and did nothing about them except make lots of noise
leading up to the election. Blame yourself for them still being
there.
You make a fair point, Mutley - the structure has persisted despite
governments of both the right and left understanding that they were a
huge mistake. What would you suggest be done?
I would start by examining the truth of the matter: Labour did not
reverse those reforms because they had other, more pressing,
priorities. This indicates those reforms were not as bad as you make
out Rich.
--
Crash McBash
Rich80105
2024-12-11 09:49:25 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
Post by Mutley
Post by Rich80105
Post by Your Name
Post by Mutley
Post by Gordon
Post by Rich80105
https://thekaka.substack.com/p/tkp-2650-solutions-a-new-home-without?utm_source=podcast-email&publication_id=102473&post_id=152644767
This may be quite limited at present, but certainly worth watching ...
This has the generalsation factor but needs more data/details in the
existing installed places. The details from an independent person.
Note the contract is only for 5 years, then what happens? Maybe all good
maybe heck this is my/the owners problem.
",I interviewed Octopus Energy Zero Bills Technical Director Nigel
Banks from the UK about this week's launch in New Zealand of a
partnership with Classic Homes to build new homes in Auckland1 with
enough solar panels and batteries that can sell enough power back into
the grid that the homeowner doesn’t have to pay a power bill for at
least five years."
Such scams ... err, "schemes", have already proven multiple times to be
hopelessly flawed and not work for the home owner. The power companies
simply aren't interested in buying electricity from home owners and at
best pay out a miniscule amount of money that means it's not worth the
home owner bothering. It depdnds on the website, the soalr company, the
power comapnies, and the equipment, but Mr Google says the typical
solar system pays for itself "within seven years".
Post by Mutley
That tells me that they have a network connection. I assume they
are paying line charges or is that covered by the power they sell
back.
Yes what happens after 5 years??
After five years the home owner is then likely to be paying out massive
amounts of money to replace the batteries (5-15 years), the inverter
(12-15 years), and solar panels (25-30 years) ... or paying out a new
contract with the solar company for maintenaance and replacements. Of
course, by then the prices for those components will all have gone up.
Plus, that assumes the solar company even lasts the five years - see
the recent news of SolarZero going into liquidation because their
"scheme" didn't work!
Compared to regular grid-supply electricity where most home owners
usually don't have to pay anything at all in on-going maintenance /
replacements, unless something goes badly wrong.
You raise reasonable issues, some of which may be easily answered by
the company. Our electricity is currently more expensive than
necessary due to the "Bradford reforms" under a previous National
Government that has led to very high profits to the Gentailers - to
the extent that even the current government has apparently raised the
possibility of initiating generation other than through those
companies. The "value added" from the company spoken to in the link
appears to be a system of computerised direction for usage that
enables for example charging of a vehicle when charges are most likely
to be low, but able to be over-ridden by direction of the vehicle
owner - for example by directing a desired time for full charge.
The important issue is that if we had a perfectly efficient system
there would be little need for such services on a commercial basis; it
highlights that New Zealand is well behind in use of solar power for
particular needs. As I said, certainly worth watching.
And your darling Helen Clark got in to government right after these
Bradford reforms and did nothing about them except make lots of noise
leading up to the election. Blame yourself for them still being
there.
You make a fair point, Mutley - the structure has persisted despite
governments of both the right and left understanding that they were a
huge mistake. What would you suggest be done?
I would start by examining the truth of the matter: Labour did not
reverse those reforms because they had other, more pressing,
priorities. This indicates those reforms were not as bad as you make
out Rich.
Yes they were, and that has been admitted by some National Supporters.
The problem of rapacious shareholders is that the structure lends
itself to them paying themselves an extremely good (and better than
normal market) returns, and half of that it going to the government,
the other half is very expensive to buy out . . .

Perhaps with ACT1stNationals attitude of abandoning the principles of
sanctity of contract, the current government could just pass a law to
purchase them back at what was originally paid for the shares - would
you agree with such an action, Crash?
Tony
2024-12-11 18:36:46 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
Post by Mutley
Post by Rich80105
Post by Your Name
Post by Mutley
Post by Gordon
Post by Rich80105
https://thekaka.substack.com/p/tkp-2650-solutions-a-new-home-without?utm_source=podcast-email&publication_id=102473&post_id=152644767
This may be quite limited at present, but certainly worth watching ...
This has the generalsation factor but needs more data/details in the
existing installed places. The details from an independent person.
Note the contract is only for 5 years, then what happens? Maybe all good
maybe heck this is my/the owners problem.
",I interviewed Octopus Energy Zero Bills Technical Director Nigel
Banks from the UK about this week's launch in New Zealand of a
partnership with Classic Homes to build new homes in Auckland1 with
enough solar panels and batteries that can sell enough power back into
the grid that the homeowner doesn’t have to pay a power bill for at
least five years."
Such scams ... err, "schemes", have already proven multiple times to be
hopelessly flawed and not work for the home owner. The power companies
simply aren't interested in buying electricity from home owners and at
best pay out a miniscule amount of money that means it's not worth the
home owner bothering. It depdnds on the website, the soalr company, the
power comapnies, and the equipment, but Mr Google says the typical
solar system pays for itself "within seven years".
Post by Mutley
That tells me that they have a network connection. I assume they
are paying line charges or is that covered by the power they sell
back.
Yes what happens after 5 years??
After five years the home owner is then likely to be paying out massive
amounts of money to replace the batteries (5-15 years), the inverter
(12-15 years), and solar panels (25-30 years) ... or paying out a new
contract with the solar company for maintenaance and replacements. Of
course, by then the prices for those components will all have gone up.
Plus, that assumes the solar company even lasts the five years - see
the recent news of SolarZero going into liquidation because their
"scheme" didn't work!
Compared to regular grid-supply electricity where most home owners
usually don't have to pay anything at all in on-going maintenance /
replacements, unless something goes badly wrong.
You raise reasonable issues, some of which may be easily answered by
the company. Our electricity is currently more expensive than
necessary due to the "Bradford reforms" under a previous National
Government that has led to very high profits to the Gentailers - to
the extent that even the current government has apparently raised the
possibility of initiating generation other than through those
companies. The "value added" from the company spoken to in the link
appears to be a system of computerised direction for usage that
enables for example charging of a vehicle when charges are most likely
to be low, but able to be over-ridden by direction of the vehicle
owner - for example by directing a desired time for full charge.
The important issue is that if we had a perfectly efficient system
there would be little need for such services on a commercial basis; it
highlights that New Zealand is well behind in use of solar power for
particular needs. As I said, certainly worth watching.
And your darling Helen Clark got in to government right after these
Bradford reforms and did nothing about them except make lots of noise
leading up to the election. Blame yourself for them still being
there.
You make a fair point, Mutley - the structure has persisted despite
governments of both the right and left understanding that they were a
huge mistake. What would you suggest be done?
I would start by examining the truth of the matter: Labour did not
reverse those reforms because they had other, more pressing,
priorities. This indicates those reforms were not as bad as you make
out Rich.
Yes they were,
No they were not - you have never provided evidence of that lie.
Post by Rich80105
and that has been admitted by some National Supporters.
The problem of rapacious shareholders is that the structure lends
itself to them paying themselves an extremely good (and better than
normal market) returns, and half of that it going to the government,
the other half is very expensive to buy out . . .
Perhaps with ACT1stNationals attitude of abandoning the principles of
sanctity of contract
That is quite simply a lie. Often repeated by you and never with a shred of
evidence. You are desparate.
Post by Rich80105
, the current government could just pass a law to
purchase them back at what was originally paid for the shares - would
you agree with such an action, Crash?
Crash
2024-12-11 19:09:52 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Wed, 11 Dec 2024 18:36:46 -0000 (UTC), Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
Post by Mutley
Post by Rich80105
Post by Your Name
Post by Mutley
Post by Gordon
Post by Rich80105
https://thekaka.substack.com/p/tkp-2650-solutions-a-new-home-without?utm_source=podcast-email&publication_id=102473&post_id=152644767
This may be quite limited at present, but certainly worth watching ...
This has the generalsation factor but needs more data/details in the
existing installed places. The details from an independent person.
Note the contract is only for 5 years, then what happens? Maybe all good
maybe heck this is my/the owners problem.
",I interviewed Octopus Energy Zero Bills Technical Director Nigel
Banks from the UK about this week's launch in New Zealand of a
partnership with Classic Homes to build new homes in Auckland1 with
enough solar panels and batteries that can sell enough power back into
the grid that the homeowner doesn’t have to pay a power bill for at
least five years."
Such scams ... err, "schemes", have already proven multiple times to be
hopelessly flawed and not work for the home owner. The power companies
simply aren't interested in buying electricity from home owners and at
best pay out a miniscule amount of money that means it's not worth the
home owner bothering. It depdnds on the website, the soalr company, the
power comapnies, and the equipment, but Mr Google says the typical
solar system pays for itself "within seven years".
Post by Mutley
That tells me that they have a network connection. I assume they
are paying line charges or is that covered by the power they sell
back.
Yes what happens after 5 years??
After five years the home owner is then likely to be paying out massive
amounts of money to replace the batteries (5-15 years), the inverter
(12-15 years), and solar panels (25-30 years) ... or paying out a new
contract with the solar company for maintenaance and replacements. Of
course, by then the prices for those components will all have gone up.
Plus, that assumes the solar company even lasts the five years - see
the recent news of SolarZero going into liquidation because their
"scheme" didn't work!
Compared to regular grid-supply electricity where most home owners
usually don't have to pay anything at all in on-going maintenance /
replacements, unless something goes badly wrong.
You raise reasonable issues, some of which may be easily answered by
the company. Our electricity is currently more expensive than
necessary due to the "Bradford reforms" under a previous National
Government that has led to very high profits to the Gentailers - to
the extent that even the current government has apparently raised the
possibility of initiating generation other than through those
companies. The "value added" from the company spoken to in the link
appears to be a system of computerised direction for usage that
enables for example charging of a vehicle when charges are most likely
to be low, but able to be over-ridden by direction of the vehicle
owner - for example by directing a desired time for full charge.
The important issue is that if we had a perfectly efficient system
there would be little need for such services on a commercial basis; it
highlights that New Zealand is well behind in use of solar power for
particular needs. As I said, certainly worth watching.
And your darling Helen Clark got in to government right after these
Bradford reforms and did nothing about them except make lots of noise
leading up to the election. Blame yourself for them still being
there.
You make a fair point, Mutley - the structure has persisted despite
governments of both the right and left understanding that they were a
huge mistake. What would you suggest be done?
I would start by examining the truth of the matter: Labour did not
reverse those reforms because they had other, more pressing,
priorities. This indicates those reforms were not as bad as you make
out Rich.
Yes they were,
No they were not - you have never provided evidence of that lie.
Post by Rich80105
and that has been admitted by some National Supporters.
The problem of rapacious shareholders is that the structure lends
itself to them paying themselves an extremely good (and better than
normal market) returns, and half of that it going to the government,
the other half is very expensive to buy out . . .
Perhaps with ACT1stNationals attitude of abandoning the principles of
sanctity of contract
That is quite simply a lie. Often repeated by you and never with a shred of
evidence. You are desparate.
Rich has no rational alternative to repeatedly posting
politically-motivated accusations. When stuff like this is included
in a post from Rich this is his way of saying that he has nothing more
rational to say.
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
, the current government could just pass a law to
purchase them back at what was originally paid for the shares - would
you agree with such an action, Crash?
--
Crash McBash
Rich80105
2024-12-12 02:37:08 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Crash
On Wed, 11 Dec 2024 18:36:46 -0000 (UTC), Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
Post by Mutley
Post by Rich80105
Post by Your Name
Post by Mutley
Post by Gordon
Post by Rich80105
https://thekaka.substack.com/p/tkp-2650-solutions-a-new-home-without?utm_source=podcast-email&publication_id=102473&post_id=152644767
This may be quite limited at present, but certainly worth watching ...
This has the generalsation factor but needs more data/details in the
existing installed places. The details from an independent person.
Note the contract is only for 5 years, then what happens? Maybe all good
maybe heck this is my/the owners problem.
",I interviewed Octopus Energy Zero Bills Technical Director Nigel
Banks from the UK about this week's launch in New Zealand of a
partnership with Classic Homes to build new homes in Auckland1 with
enough solar panels and batteries that can sell enough power back into
the grid that the homeowner doesn’t have to pay a power bill for at
least five years."
Such scams ... err, "schemes", have already proven multiple times to be
hopelessly flawed and not work for the home owner. The power companies
simply aren't interested in buying electricity from home owners and at
best pay out a miniscule amount of money that means it's not worth the
home owner bothering. It depdnds on the website, the soalr company, the
power comapnies, and the equipment, but Mr Google says the typical
solar system pays for itself "within seven years".
Post by Mutley
That tells me that they have a network connection. I assume they
are paying line charges or is that covered by the power they sell
back.
Yes what happens after 5 years??
After five years the home owner is then likely to be paying out massive
amounts of money to replace the batteries (5-15 years), the inverter
(12-15 years), and solar panels (25-30 years) ... or paying out a new
contract with the solar company for maintenaance and replacements. Of
course, by then the prices for those components will all have gone up.
Plus, that assumes the solar company even lasts the five years - see
the recent news of SolarZero going into liquidation because their
"scheme" didn't work!
Compared to regular grid-supply electricity where most home owners
usually don't have to pay anything at all in on-going maintenance /
replacements, unless something goes badly wrong.
You raise reasonable issues, some of which may be easily answered by
the company. Our electricity is currently more expensive than
necessary due to the "Bradford reforms" under a previous National
Government that has led to very high profits to the Gentailers - to
the extent that even the current government has apparently raised the
possibility of initiating generation other than through those
companies. The "value added" from the company spoken to in the link
appears to be a system of computerised direction for usage that
enables for example charging of a vehicle when charges are most likely
to be low, but able to be over-ridden by direction of the vehicle
owner - for example by directing a desired time for full charge.
The important issue is that if we had a perfectly efficient system
there would be little need for such services on a commercial basis; it
highlights that New Zealand is well behind in use of solar power for
particular needs. As I said, certainly worth watching.
And your darling Helen Clark got in to government right after these
Bradford reforms and did nothing about them except make lots of noise
leading up to the election. Blame yourself for them still being
there.
You make a fair point, Mutley - the structure has persisted despite
governments of both the right and left understanding that they were a
huge mistake. What would you suggest be done?
I would start by examining the truth of the matter: Labour did not
reverse those reforms because they had other, more pressing,
priorities. This indicates those reforms were not as bad as you make
out Rich.
Yes they were,
No they were not - you have never provided evidence of that lie.
Post by Rich80105
and that has been admitted by some National Supporters.
The problem of rapacious shareholders is that the structure lends
itself to them paying themselves an extremely good (and better than
normal market) returns, and half of that it going to the government,
the other half is very expensive to buy out . . .
Perhaps with ACT1stNationals attitude of abandoning the principles of
sanctity of contract
That is quite simply a lie. Often repeated by you and never with a shred of
evidence. You are desparate.
Rich has no rational alternative to repeatedly posting
politically-motivated accusations. When stuff like this is included
in a post from Rich this is his way of saying that he has nothing more
rational to say.
So the Hikoi that ended with 42,000 people protesting before
Parliament were just going on a walk, were they, Crash? They were
protesting the reality that this government is, when convenient to
them, the Treaty of Waitangi - one of the earliest and important
contracts entered into in New Zealand. Now you may want to claim that
this was just the ACT party, but National agreed to not only allow the
bill to be put before the House, but they are also allowing an
extended period for select Committee, which will allow ACT to
periodically make news with their divisive and racist rhetoric to be
picked up by nutters who are ripe for provocation from racism and
bigotry. National also ignored the Treaty again in dismantling the
Maori Health Authority, which was partial settlement for a Claim under
the Waitangi Tribunal. Similarly the Fast Track Bill is designed to
directly profit particular companies and individuals and is designed
to by-pass consultation in accordance with the Treaty.
Post by Crash
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
, the current government could just pass a law to
purchase them back at what was originally paid for the shares - would
you agree with such an action, Crash?
While such an action by the government would be again an appalling
breach of rights under a range of Acts of Parliament, I note that you
do not dispute that this government could take just such actions or
their equivalent in effect - they put self-interest above meeting
contractual obligations . . .
Tony
2024-12-12 02:49:51 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
Post by Crash
On Wed, 11 Dec 2024 18:36:46 -0000 (UTC), Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
Post by Mutley
Post by Rich80105
Post by Your Name
Post by Mutley
Post by Gordon
Post by Rich80105
https://thekaka.substack.com/p/tkp-2650-solutions-a-new-home-without?utm_source=podcast-email&publication_id=102473&post_id=152644767
This may be quite limited at present, but certainly worth watching ...
This has the generalsation factor but needs more data/details in the
existing installed places. The details from an independent person.
Note the contract is only for 5 years, then what happens? Maybe all good
maybe heck this is my/the owners problem.
",I interviewed Octopus Energy Zero Bills Technical Director Nigel
Banks from the UK about this week's launch in New Zealand of a
partnership with Classic Homes to build new homes in Auckland1 with
enough solar panels and batteries that can sell enough power back into
the grid that the homeowner doesn’t have to pay a power bill for at
least five years."
Such scams ... err, "schemes", have already proven multiple times to be
hopelessly flawed and not work for the home owner. The power companies
simply aren't interested in buying electricity from home owners and at
best pay out a miniscule amount of money that means it's not worth the
home owner bothering. It depdnds on the website, the soalr company, the
power comapnies, and the equipment, but Mr Google says the typical
solar system pays for itself "within seven years".
Post by Mutley
That tells me that they have a network connection. I assume they
are paying line charges or is that covered by the power they sell
back.
Yes what happens after 5 years??
After five years the home owner is then likely to be paying out massive
amounts of money to replace the batteries (5-15 years), the inverter
(12-15 years), and solar panels (25-30 years) ... or paying out a new
contract with the solar company for maintenaance and replacements. Of
course, by then the prices for those components will all have gone up.
Plus, that assumes the solar company even lasts the five years - see
the recent news of SolarZero going into liquidation because their
"scheme" didn't work!
Compared to regular grid-supply electricity where most home owners
usually don't have to pay anything at all in on-going maintenance /
replacements, unless something goes badly wrong.
You raise reasonable issues, some of which may be easily answered by
the company. Our electricity is currently more expensive than
necessary due to the "Bradford reforms" under a previous National
Government that has led to very high profits to the Gentailers - to
the extent that even the current government has apparently raised the
possibility of initiating generation other than through those
companies. The "value added" from the company spoken to in the link
appears to be a system of computerised direction for usage that
enables for example charging of a vehicle when charges are most likely
to be low, but able to be over-ridden by direction of the vehicle
owner - for example by directing a desired time for full charge.
The important issue is that if we had a perfectly efficient system
there would be little need for such services on a commercial basis; it
highlights that New Zealand is well behind in use of solar power for
particular needs. As I said, certainly worth watching.
And your darling Helen Clark got in to government right after these
Bradford reforms and did nothing about them except make lots of noise
leading up to the election. Blame yourself for them still being
there.
You make a fair point, Mutley - the structure has persisted despite
governments of both the right and left understanding that they were a
huge mistake. What would you suggest be done?
I would start by examining the truth of the matter: Labour did not
reverse those reforms because they had other, more pressing,
priorities. This indicates those reforms were not as bad as you make
out Rich.
Yes they were,
No they were not - you have never provided evidence of that lie.
Post by Rich80105
and that has been admitted by some National Supporters.
The problem of rapacious shareholders is that the structure lends
itself to them paying themselves an extremely good (and better than
normal market) returns, and half of that it going to the government,
the other half is very expensive to buy out . . .
Perhaps with ACT1stNationals attitude of abandoning the principles of
sanctity of contract
That is quite simply a lie. Often repeated by you and never with a shred of
evidence. You are desparate.
Rich has no rational alternative to repeatedly posting
politically-motivated accusations. When stuff like this is included
in a post from Rich this is his way of saying that he has nothing more
rational to say.
So the Hikoi that ended with 42,000 people protesting before
Parliament were just going on a walk, were they, Crash? They were
protesting the reality that this government is, when convenient to
them, the Treaty of Waitangi - one of the earliest and important
contracts entered into in New Zealand. Now you may want to claim that
this was just the ACT party, but National agreed to not only allow the
bill to be put before the House, but they are also allowing an
extended period for select Committee, which will allow ACT to
periodically make news with their divisive and racist rhetoric to be
picked up by nutters who are ripe for provocation from racism and
bigotry. National also ignored the Treaty again in dismantling the
Maori Health Authority, which was partial settlement for a Claim under
the Waitangi Tribunal. Similarly the Fast Track Bill is designed to
directly profit particular companies and individuals and is designed
to by-pass consultation in accordance with the Treaty.
You have posted political rhetoric. Nothing of substance.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Crash
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
, the current government could just pass a law to
purchase them back at what was originally paid for the shares - would
you agree with such an action, Crash?
While such an action by the government would be again an appalling
breach of rights under a range of Acts of Parliament, I note that you
do not dispute that this government could take just such actions or
their equivalent in effect - they put self-interest above meeting
contractual obligations . . .
Can you even spell the word logic? You certainly don't understand what it
means. That paragraph is bereft of logic, common snse and even the English is
poor.
Apsrt from that it is just wrong.
Crash
2024-12-12 07:44:24 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
Post by Crash
On Wed, 11 Dec 2024 18:36:46 -0000 (UTC), Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
Post by Mutley
Post by Rich80105
Post by Your Name
Post by Mutley
Post by Gordon
Post by Rich80105
https://thekaka.substack.com/p/tkp-2650-solutions-a-new-home-without?utm_source=podcast-email&publication_id=102473&post_id=152644767
This may be quite limited at present, but certainly worth watching ...
This has the generalsation factor but needs more data/details in the
existing installed places. The details from an independent person.
Note the contract is only for 5 years, then what happens? Maybe all good
maybe heck this is my/the owners problem.
",I interviewed Octopus Energy Zero Bills Technical Director Nigel
Banks from the UK about this week's launch in New Zealand of a
partnership with Classic Homes to build new homes in Auckland1 with
enough solar panels and batteries that can sell enough power back into
the grid that the homeowner doesn’t have to pay a power bill for at
least five years."
Such scams ... err, "schemes", have already proven multiple times to be
hopelessly flawed and not work for the home owner. The power companies
simply aren't interested in buying electricity from home owners and at
best pay out a miniscule amount of money that means it's not worth the
home owner bothering. It depdnds on the website, the soalr company, the
power comapnies, and the equipment, but Mr Google says the typical
solar system pays for itself "within seven years".
Post by Mutley
That tells me that they have a network connection. I assume they
are paying line charges or is that covered by the power they sell
back.
Yes what happens after 5 years??
After five years the home owner is then likely to be paying out massive
amounts of money to replace the batteries (5-15 years), the inverter
(12-15 years), and solar panels (25-30 years) ... or paying out a new
contract with the solar company for maintenaance and replacements. Of
course, by then the prices for those components will all have gone up.
Plus, that assumes the solar company even lasts the five years - see
the recent news of SolarZero going into liquidation because their
"scheme" didn't work!
Compared to regular grid-supply electricity where most home owners
usually don't have to pay anything at all in on-going maintenance /
replacements, unless something goes badly wrong.
You raise reasonable issues, some of which may be easily answered by
the company. Our electricity is currently more expensive than
necessary due to the "Bradford reforms" under a previous National
Government that has led to very high profits to the Gentailers - to
the extent that even the current government has apparently raised the
possibility of initiating generation other than through those
companies. The "value added" from the company spoken to in the link
appears to be a system of computerised direction for usage that
enables for example charging of a vehicle when charges are most likely
to be low, but able to be over-ridden by direction of the vehicle
owner - for example by directing a desired time for full charge.
The important issue is that if we had a perfectly efficient system
there would be little need for such services on a commercial basis; it
highlights that New Zealand is well behind in use of solar power for
particular needs. As I said, certainly worth watching.
And your darling Helen Clark got in to government right after these
Bradford reforms and did nothing about them except make lots of noise
leading up to the election. Blame yourself for them still being
there.
You make a fair point, Mutley - the structure has persisted despite
governments of both the right and left understanding that they were a
huge mistake. What would you suggest be done?
I would start by examining the truth of the matter: Labour did not
reverse those reforms because they had other, more pressing,
priorities. This indicates those reforms were not as bad as you make
out Rich.
Yes they were,
No they were not - you have never provided evidence of that lie.
Post by Rich80105
and that has been admitted by some National Supporters.
The problem of rapacious shareholders is that the structure lends
itself to them paying themselves an extremely good (and better than
normal market) returns, and half of that it going to the government,
the other half is very expensive to buy out . . .
Perhaps with ACT1stNationals attitude of abandoning the principles of
sanctity of contract
That is quite simply a lie. Often repeated by you and never with a shred of
evidence. You are desparate.
Rich has no rational alternative to repeatedly posting
politically-motivated accusations. When stuff like this is included
in a post from Rich this is his way of saying that he has nothing more
rational to say.
So the Hikoi that ended with 42,000 people protesting before
Parliament were just going on a walk, were they, Crash? They were
protesting the reality that this government is, when convenient to
them, the Treaty of Waitangi - one of the earliest and important
contracts entered into in New Zealand. Now you may want to claim that
this was just the ACT party, but National agreed to not only allow the
bill to be put before the House, but they are also allowing an
extended period for select Committee, which will allow ACT to
periodically make news with their divisive and racist rhetoric to be
picked up by nutters who are ripe for provocation from racism and
bigotry. National also ignored the Treaty again in dismantling the
Maori Health Authority, which was partial settlement for a Claim under
the Waitangi Tribunal. Similarly the Fast Track Bill is designed to
directly profit particular companies and individuals and is designed
to by-pass consultation in accordance with the Treaty.
Nonsense repeated is still nonsense. Yes the Hikoi was an impressive
gathering, but a drop in the bucket when compared to how many voters
we have. The rest of your tirade is aimed at party policies enshrined
in coalition agreements.

While you quibble about National agreeing to the Treaty Principles
bill, your predictions that the Select Committee process will cause
further dissent is politically-motivated rhetoric. Most bills go
through a 6-month Select Committee process which goes largely
unreported by media organisations. Submissions close January. Some
submitters will garner some media coverage after that but so what.

The Treaty was signed 184 years ago. The Maori Health Authority was
formed by the last Labour Government so any assertion it was to do
with the ToW is irrational.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Crash
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
, the current government could just pass a law to
purchase them back at what was originally paid for the shares - would
you agree with such an action, Crash?
While such an action by the government would be again an appalling
breach of rights under a range of Acts of Parliament, I note that you
do not dispute that this government could take just such actions or
their equivalent in effect - they put self-interest above meeting
contractual obligations . . .
Why respond to yourself Rich? I made no comment about share
repurchases.
--
Crash McBash
Rich80105
2024-12-12 20:30:25 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
Post by Crash
On Wed, 11 Dec 2024 18:36:46 -0000 (UTC), Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
Post by Mutley
Post by Rich80105
Post by Your Name
Post by Mutley
Post by Gordon
Post by Rich80105
https://thekaka.substack.com/p/tkp-2650-solutions-a-new-home-without?utm_source=podcast-email&publication_id=102473&post_id=152644767
This may be quite limited at present, but certainly worth watching ...
This has the generalsation factor but needs more data/details in the
existing installed places. The details from an independent person.
Note the contract is only for 5 years, then what happens? Maybe all
good
maybe heck this is my/the owners problem.
",I interviewed Octopus Energy Zero Bills Technical Director Nigel
Banks from the UK about this week's launch in New Zealand of a
partnership with Classic Homes to build new homes in Auckland1 with
enough solar panels and batteries that can sell enough power back into
the grid that the homeowner doesn’t have to pay a power bill for at
least five years."
Such scams ... err, "schemes", have already proven multiple times to be
hopelessly flawed and not work for the home owner. The power companies
simply aren't interested in buying electricity from home owners and at
best pay out a miniscule amount of money that means it's not worth the
home owner bothering. It depdnds on the website, the soalr company, the
power comapnies, and the equipment, but Mr Google says the typical
solar system pays for itself "within seven years".
Post by Mutley
That tells me that they have a network connection. I assume they
are paying line charges or is that covered by the power they sell
back.
Yes what happens after 5 years??
After five years the home owner is then likely to be paying out massive
amounts of money to replace the batteries (5-15 years), the inverter
(12-15 years), and solar panels (25-30 years) ... or paying out a new
contract with the solar company for maintenaance and replacements. Of
course, by then the prices for those components will all have gone up.
Plus, that assumes the solar company even lasts the five years - see
the recent news of SolarZero going into liquidation because their
"scheme" didn't work!
Compared to regular grid-supply electricity where most home owners
usually don't have to pay anything at all in on-going maintenance /
replacements, unless something goes badly wrong.
You raise reasonable issues, some of which may be easily answered by
the company. Our electricity is currently more expensive than
necessary due to the "Bradford reforms" under a previous National
Government that has led to very high profits to the Gentailers - to
the extent that even the current government has apparently raised the
possibility of initiating generation other than through those
companies. The "value added" from the company spoken to in the link
appears to be a system of computerised direction for usage that
enables for example charging of a vehicle when charges are most likely
to be low, but able to be over-ridden by direction of the vehicle
owner - for example by directing a desired time for full charge.
The important issue is that if we had a perfectly efficient system
there would be little need for such services on a commercial basis; it
highlights that New Zealand is well behind in use of solar power for
particular needs. As I said, certainly worth watching.
And your darling Helen Clark got in to government right after these
Bradford reforms and did nothing about them except make lots of noise
leading up to the election. Blame yourself for them still being
there.
You make a fair point, Mutley - the structure has persisted despite
governments of both the right and left understanding that they were a
huge mistake. What would you suggest be done?
I would start by examining the truth of the matter: Labour did not
reverse those reforms because they had other, more pressing,
priorities. This indicates those reforms were not as bad as you make
out Rich.
Yes they were,
No they were not - you have never provided evidence of that lie.
Post by Rich80105
and that has been admitted by some National Supporters.
The problem of rapacious shareholders is that the structure lends
itself to them paying themselves an extremely good (and better than
normal market) returns, and half of that it going to the government,
the other half is very expensive to buy out . . .
Perhaps with ACT1stNationals attitude of abandoning the principles of
sanctity of contract
That is quite simply a lie. Often repeated by you and never with a shred of
evidence. You are desparate.
Rich has no rational alternative to repeatedly posting
politically-motivated accusations. When stuff like this is included
in a post from Rich this is his way of saying that he has nothing more
rational to say.
So the Hikoi that ended with 42,000 people protesting before
Parliament were just going on a walk, were they, Crash? They were
protesting the reality that this government is, when convenient to
them, the Treaty of Waitangi - one of the earliest and important
contracts entered into in New Zealand. Now you may want to claim that
this was just the ACT party, but National agreed to not only allow the
bill to be put before the House, but they are also allowing an
extended period for select Committee, which will allow ACT to
periodically make news with their divisive and racist rhetoric to be
picked up by nutters who are ripe for provocation from racism and
bigotry. National also ignored the Treaty again in dismantling the
Maori Health Authority, which was partial settlement for a Claim under
the Waitangi Tribunal. Similarly the Fast Track Bill is designed to
directly profit particular companies and individuals and is designed
to by-pass consultation in accordance with the Treaty.
Nonsense repeated is still nonsense. Yes the Hikoi was an impressive
gathering, but a drop in the bucket when compared to how many voters
we have. The rest of your tirade is aimed at party policies enshrined
in coalition agreements.
The Hikoi was not just the gathering in Wellington - in each town or
city it passed, from North and South of Wellington, many others joined
for that day - and of course many that would have liked to participate
were working or unable to get there. It certainly dwarfed the NZ
Taxpayer Union protests like Groundswell, and any other right wing
protest of the past.

So where in the coalition agreement is enshrined getting rid of the
Maori Health organisation? Where in the coalition agreement is a long
period before report back from the select Committee to enable Seymour
to peddle ACT's racist and divisive views? And what does it tell you
about Luxon that National is seen to be supporting the racist tactics
of ACT?
Post by Crash
While you quibble about National agreeing to the Treaty Principles
bill, your predictions that the Select Committee process will cause
further dissent is politically-motivated rhetoric. Most bills go
through a 6-month Select Committee process which goes largely
unreported by media organisations. Submissions close January. Some
submitters will garner some media coverage after that but so what.
The Treaty was signed 184 years ago. The Maori Health Authority was
formed by the last Labour Government so any assertion it was to do
with the ToW is irrational.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Crash
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
, the current government could just pass a law to
purchase them back at what was originally paid for the shares - would
you agree with such an action, Crash?
While such an action by the government would be again an appalling
breach of rights under a range of Acts of Parliament, I note that you
do not dispute that this government could take just such actions or
their equivalent in effect - they put self-interest above meeting
contractual obligations . . .
Why respond to yourself Rich? I made no comment about share
repurchases.
Tony
2024-12-12 20:45:13 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
Post by Crash
On Wed, 11 Dec 2024 18:36:46 -0000 (UTC), Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
Post by Mutley
Post by Rich80105
Post by Your Name
Post by Mutley
Post by Gordon
Post by Rich80105
https://thekaka.substack.com/p/tkp-2650-solutions-a-new-home-without?utm_source=podcast-email&publication_id=102473&post_id=152644767
This may be quite limited at present, but certainly worth
watching ...
This has the generalsation factor but needs more data/details in the
existing installed places. The details from an independent person.
Note the contract is only for 5 years, then what happens? Maybe all
good
maybe heck this is my/the owners problem.
",I interviewed Octopus Energy Zero Bills Technical Director Nigel
Banks from the UK about this week's launch in New Zealand of a
partnership with Classic Homes to build new homes in Auckland1 with
enough solar panels and batteries that can sell enough power back into
the grid that the homeowner doesn’t have to pay a power bill for at
least five years."
Such scams ... err, "schemes", have already proven multiple times to be
hopelessly flawed and not work for the home owner. The power companies
simply aren't interested in buying electricity from home owners and at
best pay out a miniscule amount of money that means it's not worth the
home owner bothering. It depdnds on the website, the soalr company, the
power comapnies, and the equipment, but Mr Google says the typical
solar system pays for itself "within seven years".
Post by Mutley
That tells me that they have a network connection. I assume they
are paying line charges or is that covered by the power they sell
back.
Yes what happens after 5 years??
After five years the home owner is then likely to be paying out massive
amounts of money to replace the batteries (5-15 years), the inverter
(12-15 years), and solar panels (25-30 years) ... or paying out a new
contract with the solar company for maintenaance and replacements. Of
course, by then the prices for those components will all have gone up.
Plus, that assumes the solar company even lasts the five years - see
the recent news of SolarZero going into liquidation because their
"scheme" didn't work!
Compared to regular grid-supply electricity where most home owners
usually don't have to pay anything at all in on-going maintenance /
replacements, unless something goes badly wrong.
You raise reasonable issues, some of which may be easily answered by
the company. Our electricity is currently more expensive than
necessary due to the "Bradford reforms" under a previous National
Government that has led to very high profits to the Gentailers - to
the extent that even the current government has apparently raised the
possibility of initiating generation other than through those
companies. The "value added" from the company spoken to in the link
appears to be a system of computerised direction for usage that
enables for example charging of a vehicle when charges are most likely
to be low, but able to be over-ridden by direction of the vehicle
owner - for example by directing a desired time for full charge.
The important issue is that if we had a perfectly efficient system
there would be little need for such services on a commercial basis; it
highlights that New Zealand is well behind in use of solar power for
particular needs. As I said, certainly worth watching.
And your darling Helen Clark got in to government right after these
Bradford reforms and did nothing about them except make lots of noise
leading up to the election. Blame yourself for them still being
there.
You make a fair point, Mutley - the structure has persisted despite
governments of both the right and left understanding that they were a
huge mistake. What would you suggest be done?
I would start by examining the truth of the matter: Labour did not
reverse those reforms because they had other, more pressing,
priorities. This indicates those reforms were not as bad as you make
out Rich.
Yes they were,
No they were not - you have never provided evidence of that lie.
Post by Rich80105
and that has been admitted by some National Supporters.
The problem of rapacious shareholders is that the structure lends
itself to them paying themselves an extremely good (and better than
normal market) returns, and half of that it going to the government,
the other half is very expensive to buy out . . .
Perhaps with ACT1stNationals attitude of abandoning the principles of
sanctity of contract
That is quite simply a lie. Often repeated by you and never with a shred of
evidence. You are desparate.
Rich has no rational alternative to repeatedly posting
politically-motivated accusations. When stuff like this is included
in a post from Rich this is his way of saying that he has nothing more
rational to say.
So the Hikoi that ended with 42,000 people protesting before
Parliament were just going on a walk, were they, Crash? They were
protesting the reality that this government is, when convenient to
them, the Treaty of Waitangi - one of the earliest and important
contracts entered into in New Zealand. Now you may want to claim that
this was just the ACT party, but National agreed to not only allow the
bill to be put before the House, but they are also allowing an
extended period for select Committee, which will allow ACT to
periodically make news with their divisive and racist rhetoric to be
picked up by nutters who are ripe for provocation from racism and
bigotry. National also ignored the Treaty again in dismantling the
Maori Health Authority, which was partial settlement for a Claim under
the Waitangi Tribunal. Similarly the Fast Track Bill is designed to
directly profit particular companies and individuals and is designed
to by-pass consultation in accordance with the Treaty.
Nonsense repeated is still nonsense. Yes the Hikoi was an impressive
gathering, but a drop in the bucket when compared to how many voters
we have. The rest of your tirade is aimed at party policies enshrined
in coalition agreements.
The Hikoi was not just the gathering in Wellington - in each town or
city it passed, from North and South of Wellington, many others joined
for that day - and of course many that would have liked to participate
were working or unable to get there. It certainly dwarfed the NZ
Taxpayer Union protests like Groundswell, and any other right wing
protest of the past.
The TPU is not right wing and they did not organise Groundswell - geez you are
desparate.
Post by Rich80105
So where in the coalition agreement is enshrined getting rid of the
Maori Health organisation? Where in the coalition agreement is a long
period before report back from the select Committee to enable Seymour
to peddle ACT's racist and divisive views? And what does it tell you
about Luxon that National is seen to be supporting the racist tactics
of ACT?
ACT is not divisive (exactyly the opposite), you are divisive (racist) and so
is TPM and so was the Hikoi.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Crash
While you quibble about National agreeing to the Treaty Principles
bill, your predictions that the Select Committee process will cause
further dissent is politically-motivated rhetoric. Most bills go
through a 6-month Select Committee process which goes largely
unreported by media organisations. Submissions close January. Some
submitters will garner some media coverage after that but so what.
The Treaty was signed 184 years ago. The Maori Health Authority was
formed by the last Labour Government so any assertion it was to do
with the ToW is irrational.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Crash
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
, the current government could just pass a law to
purchase them back at what was originally paid for the shares - would
you agree with such an action, Crash?
While such an action by the government would be again an appalling
breach of rights under a range of Acts of Parliament, I note that you
do not dispute that this government could take just such actions or
their equivalent in effect - they put self-interest above meeting
contractual obligations . . .
Why respond to yourself Rich? I made no comment about share
repurchases.
Gordon
2024-12-13 07:46:37 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
Post by Crash
On Wed, 11 Dec 2024 18:36:46 -0000 (UTC), Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
Post by Mutley
Post by Rich80105
Post by Your Name
Post by Mutley
Post by Gordon
Post by Rich80105
https://thekaka.substack.com/p/tkp-2650-solutions-a-new-home-without?utm_source=podcast-email&publication_id=102473&post_id=152644767
This may be quite limited at present, but certainly worth watching ...
This has the generalsation factor but needs more data/details in the
existing installed places. The details from an independent person.
Note the contract is only for 5 years, then what happens? Maybe all
good
maybe heck this is my/the owners problem.
",I interviewed Octopus Energy Zero Bills Technical Director Nigel
Banks from the UK about this week's launch in New Zealand of a
partnership with Classic Homes to build new homes in Auckland1 with
enough solar panels and batteries that can sell enough power back into
the grid that the homeowner doesn’t have to pay a power bill for at
least five years."
Such scams ... err, "schemes", have already proven multiple times to be
hopelessly flawed and not work for the home owner. The power companies
simply aren't interested in buying electricity from home owners and at
best pay out a miniscule amount of money that means it's not worth the
home owner bothering. It depdnds on the website, the soalr company, the
power comapnies, and the equipment, but Mr Google says the typical
solar system pays for itself "within seven years".
Post by Mutley
That tells me that they have a network connection. I assume they
are paying line charges or is that covered by the power they sell
back.
Yes what happens after 5 years??
After five years the home owner is then likely to be paying out massive
amounts of money to replace the batteries (5-15 years), the inverter
(12-15 years), and solar panels (25-30 years) ... or paying out a new
contract with the solar company for maintenaance and replacements. Of
course, by then the prices for those components will all have gone up.
Plus, that assumes the solar company even lasts the five years - see
the recent news of SolarZero going into liquidation because their
"scheme" didn't work!
Compared to regular grid-supply electricity where most home owners
usually don't have to pay anything at all in on-going maintenance /
replacements, unless something goes badly wrong.
You raise reasonable issues, some of which may be easily answered by
the company. Our electricity is currently more expensive than
necessary due to the "Bradford reforms" under a previous National
Government that has led to very high profits to the Gentailers - to
the extent that even the current government has apparently raised the
possibility of initiating generation other than through those
companies. The "value added" from the company spoken to in the link
appears to be a system of computerised direction for usage that
enables for example charging of a vehicle when charges are most likely
to be low, but able to be over-ridden by direction of the vehicle
owner - for example by directing a desired time for full charge.
The important issue is that if we had a perfectly efficient system
there would be little need for such services on a commercial basis; it
highlights that New Zealand is well behind in use of solar power for
particular needs. As I said, certainly worth watching.
And your darling Helen Clark got in to government right after these
Bradford reforms and did nothing about them except make lots of noise
leading up to the election. Blame yourself for them still being
there.
You make a fair point, Mutley - the structure has persisted despite
governments of both the right and left understanding that they were a
huge mistake. What would you suggest be done?
I would start by examining the truth of the matter: Labour did not
reverse those reforms because they had other, more pressing,
priorities. This indicates those reforms were not as bad as you make
out Rich.
Yes they were,
No they were not - you have never provided evidence of that lie.
Post by Rich80105
and that has been admitted by some National Supporters.
The problem of rapacious shareholders is that the structure lends
itself to them paying themselves an extremely good (and better than
normal market) returns, and half of that it going to the government,
the other half is very expensive to buy out . . .
Perhaps with ACT1stNationals attitude of abandoning the principles of
sanctity of contract
That is quite simply a lie. Often repeated by you and never with a shred of
evidence. You are desparate.
Rich has no rational alternative to repeatedly posting
politically-motivated accusations. When stuff like this is included
in a post from Rich this is his way of saying that he has nothing more
rational to say.
So the Hikoi that ended with 42,000 people protesting before
Parliament were just going on a walk, were they, Crash? They were
protesting the reality that this government is, when convenient to
them, the Treaty of Waitangi - one of the earliest and important
contracts entered into in New Zealand. Now you may want to claim that
this was just the ACT party, but National agreed to not only allow the
bill to be put before the House, but they are also allowing an
extended period for select Committee, which will allow ACT to
periodically make news with their divisive and racist rhetoric to be
picked up by nutters who are ripe for provocation from racism and
bigotry. National also ignored the Treaty again in dismantling the
Maori Health Authority, which was partial settlement for a Claim under
the Waitangi Tribunal. Similarly the Fast Track Bill is designed to
directly profit particular companies and individuals and is designed
to by-pass consultation in accordance with the Treaty.
Nonsense repeated is still nonsense. Yes the Hikoi was an impressive
gathering, but a drop in the bucket when compared to how many voters
we have. The rest of your tirade is aimed at party policies enshrined
in coalition agreements.
The Hikoi was not just the gathering in Wellington - in each town or
city it passed, from North and South of Wellington, many others joined
for that day - and of course many that would have liked to participate
were working or unable to get there. It certainly dwarfed the NZ
Taxpayer Union protests like Groundswell, and any other right wing
protest of the past.
So where in the coalition agreement is enshrined getting rid of the
Maori Health organisation?
It does not metion this as it would be racist fuel. The National Coalition
considers that all sections of NZ are equal. Now there might well be some
adjustments within the one size fits all, but the Labour side wants the woke
vision for New Zealand which the majority of the people do not want.
Post by Rich80105
Where in the coalition agreement is a long
period before report back from the select Committee to enable Seymour
to peddle ACT's racist and divisive views?
In the left's misunderstanting of the situation.
Post by Rich80105
And what does it tell you
about Luxon that National is seen to be supporting the racist tactics
of ACT?
Not by the majority of the country.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Crash
While you quibble about National agreeing to the Treaty Principles
bill, your predictions that the Select Committee process will cause
further dissent is politically-motivated rhetoric. Most bills go
through a 6-month Select Committee process which goes largely
unreported by media organisations. Submissions close January. Some
submitters will garner some media coverage after that but so what.
The Treaty was signed 184 years ago. The Maori Health Authority was
formed by the last Labour Government so any assertion it was to do
with the ToW is irrational.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Crash
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
, the current government could just pass a law to
purchase them back at what was originally paid for the shares - would
you agree with such an action, Crash?
While such an action by the government would be again an appalling
breach of rights under a range of Acts of Parliament, I note that you
do not dispute that this government could take just such actions or
their equivalent in effect - they put self-interest above meeting
contractual obligations . . .
Why respond to yourself Rich? I made no comment about share
repurchases.
Crash
2024-12-11 19:05:53 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
Post by Mutley
Post by Rich80105
Post by Your Name
Post by Mutley
Post by Gordon
Post by Rich80105
https://thekaka.substack.com/p/tkp-2650-solutions-a-new-home-without?utm_source=podcast-email&publication_id=102473&post_id=152644767
This may be quite limited at present, but certainly worth watching ...
This has the generalsation factor but needs more data/details in the
existing installed places. The details from an independent person.
Note the contract is only for 5 years, then what happens? Maybe all good
maybe heck this is my/the owners problem.
",I interviewed Octopus Energy Zero Bills Technical Director Nigel
Banks from the UK about this week's launch in New Zealand of a
partnership with Classic Homes to build new homes in Auckland1 with
enough solar panels and batteries that can sell enough power back into
the grid that the homeowner doesn’t have to pay a power bill for at
least five years."
Such scams ... err, "schemes", have already proven multiple times to be
hopelessly flawed and not work for the home owner. The power companies
simply aren't interested in buying electricity from home owners and at
best pay out a miniscule amount of money that means it's not worth the
home owner bothering. It depdnds on the website, the soalr company, the
power comapnies, and the equipment, but Mr Google says the typical
solar system pays for itself "within seven years".
Post by Mutley
That tells me that they have a network connection. I assume they
are paying line charges or is that covered by the power they sell
back.
Yes what happens after 5 years??
After five years the home owner is then likely to be paying out massive
amounts of money to replace the batteries (5-15 years), the inverter
(12-15 years), and solar panels (25-30 years) ... or paying out a new
contract with the solar company for maintenaance and replacements. Of
course, by then the prices for those components will all have gone up.
Plus, that assumes the solar company even lasts the five years - see
the recent news of SolarZero going into liquidation because their
"scheme" didn't work!
Compared to regular grid-supply electricity where most home owners
usually don't have to pay anything at all in on-going maintenance /
replacements, unless something goes badly wrong.
You raise reasonable issues, some of which may be easily answered by
the company. Our electricity is currently more expensive than
necessary due to the "Bradford reforms" under a previous National
Government that has led to very high profits to the Gentailers - to
the extent that even the current government has apparently raised the
possibility of initiating generation other than through those
companies. The "value added" from the company spoken to in the link
appears to be a system of computerised direction for usage that
enables for example charging of a vehicle when charges are most likely
to be low, but able to be over-ridden by direction of the vehicle
owner - for example by directing a desired time for full charge.
The important issue is that if we had a perfectly efficient system
there would be little need for such services on a commercial basis; it
highlights that New Zealand is well behind in use of solar power for
particular needs. As I said, certainly worth watching.
And your darling Helen Clark got in to government right after these
Bradford reforms and did nothing about them except make lots of noise
leading up to the election. Blame yourself for them still being
there.
You make a fair point, Mutley - the structure has persisted despite
governments of both the right and left understanding that they were a
huge mistake. What would you suggest be done?
I would start by examining the truth of the matter: Labour did not
reverse those reforms because they had other, more pressing,
priorities. This indicates those reforms were not as bad as you make
out Rich.
Yes they were, and that has been admitted by some National Supporters.
My point is that Labour had the opportunity to modify or repeal the
reforms made by National. Your response is weak to the point of not
addressing what actually I posted.
Post by Rich80105
The problem of rapacious shareholders is that the structure lends
itself to them paying themselves an extremely good (and better than
normal market) returns, and half of that it going to the government,
the other half is very expensive to buy out . . .
Perhaps with ACT1stNationals attitude of abandoning the principles of
sanctity of contract, the current government could just pass a law to
purchase them back at what was originally paid for the shares - would
you agree with such an action, Crash?
Yet again you resort to political tirade masquerading as a question.

Labour has not, and does not have any policy to reform how mains
electricity is supplied in NZ. That is because they do not see it as
an issue as you do. Have you tried to get remits through the Labour
Party structure on this Rich? If you or someone else has done so and
failed, perhaps there is a message there.
--
Crash McBash
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