Vandalism or poor maintence - power pylon falls over

Post by Gordon
https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/350308986/live-fallen-transpower-tower-leaves-much-northland-without-electricity
Interesting to know if vandalism or poor upkeep was the cause of the
problem. Not a thing that happens every day.

I agree, Gordon, I cannot recall a high voltage transmission Tower
falling over in the past, but I do know that there were at least in
the past regular assessments of towers, and maintenance as needed.
Usually with any stoppage there are other transmission paths that
will still deliver electricity as well.

If supply is interrupted for a long period there may be some liability
on either Transpower, but the system is designed so that power costs
go up with any problem - so those more concerned about profits they
are not likely to be significantly affected.

Crash

2024-06-20 03:56:58 UTC

As Transpower is an State-Owned-Enterprise (SOE) this should not have
changed much since it was formed.

Post by Rich80105
Usually with any stoppage there are other transmission paths that
will still deliver electricity as well.

Not to Northland - there never has. Although the outage covers a
large physical area it affects just 100,000 customers. There was
220KV and a 110KV lines available but this provides only partial
redundancy in that the 110KV line cannot supply the whole region. If
I read the news coverage today correctly, it is the 220KV line that
failed and the 110KV line was out under planned maintenance.

Post by Rich80105
If supply is interrupted for a long period there may be some liability
on either Transpower,

This is not as straightforward as it seems. The two lines companies
affected are Top Energy and Northpower. Top Energy has commissioned
geothermal generators at their Ngawha site, but apparently the way the
output has been configured to feed the Transpower grid, it cannot be
used in these circumstances. The advertised capability at Ngawha is
to supply a load typical of 35,000 customers (roughly what Top Energy
supplies) so perhaps Top Energy are unable to ensure that if Top
Energy are isolated from the Transpower grid then Ngawha may be loaded
with more than just the Top Energy network.

As a Top Energy customer, I expect that generating capacity it owns
should be usable in the event that Top Energy can no longer access the
Transpower grid.

Post by Rich80105
but the system is designed so that power costs
go up with any problem - so those more concerned about profits they
are not likely to be significantly affected.

What twaddle. Every retail supplier to Northland has lost revenue
with this outage, as has Northpower and Top Energy. The failure is
with a monopoly SOE.

--
Crash McBash

Rich80105

2024-06-20 04:57:13 UTC

Post by Crash

As Transpower is an State-Owned-Enterprise (SOE) this should not have
changed much since it was formed.

I am sure it has changed significantly - much of our HV transmission
was built in the 19602 and 1970s - while the structures may look the
same, they are now better designed, and testing should also have
improved; in addition they have a lot more experience with design of
bases. However fundamentally you are correct; checking and testing
should not have changed much.

Post by Crash

Post by Rich80105
Usually with any stoppage there are other transmission paths that
will still deliver electricity as well.

Thanks - I had not picked up that a 110KV line was out for planned
maintenance.

Post by Crash

Post by Rich80105
If supply is interrupted for a long period there may be some liability
on either Transpower,

This is not as straightforward as it seems. The two lines companies
affected are Top Energy and Northpower. Top Energy has commissioned
geothermal generators at their Ngawha site, but apparently the way the
output has been configured to feed the Transpower grid, it cannot be
used in these circumstances. The advertised capability at Ngawha is
to supply a load typical of 35,000 customers (roughly what Top Energy
supplies) so perhaps Top Energy are unable to ensure that if Top
Energy are isolated from the Transpower grid then Ngawha may be loaded
with more than just the Top Energy network.
As a Top Energy customer, I expect that generating capacity it owns
should be usable in the event that Top Energy can no longer access the
Transpower grid.

Post by Rich80105
but the system is designed so that power costs
go up with any problem - so those more concerned about profits they
are not likely to be significantly affected.

What twaddle. Every retail supplier to Northland has lost revenue
with this outage, as has Northpower and Top Energy. The failure is
with a monopoly SOE.

Sorry yes I should have made it clear I was talking about generators -
line companies will be affected where they have nothing to deliver!

Willy Nilly

2024-06-20 23:26:11 UTC

Unbelievable as it sounds, it seems it was caused by a maintenance
crew fully unbolting two pylons (out of 4) from the concrete platform
they are bolted to. Incompetence beyond what you'd think possible.

Was it a trainee crew? Unqualified? Everyone involved in unbolting
both pylons, and whoever hired those people, should all be sacked.

Willy Nilly

2024-06-25 04:58:11 UTC

Post by Willy Nilly
Unbelievable as it sounds, it seems it was caused by a maintenance
crew fully unbolting two pylons (out of 4) from the concrete platform
they are bolted to. Incompetence beyond what you'd think possible.
Was it a trainee crew? Unqualified? Everyone involved in unbolting
both pylons, and whoever hired those people, should all be sacked.

Now: "Inconceivable!"
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/520400/transpower-reveals-why-pylon-fell-causing-major-northland-outage
"It is unprecedented and inconceivable that so many nuts were removed
at once." -- Transpower CEO

"Inconceivable" is right, but not "unprecedented" -- I'll bet you that
those contractors have been doing this for a while, to where they
became complacent about it. So why did this tower fall now, when they
had not fallen before? Because this tower was not in a straight line
with neighbouring towers, the line direction was turning here, so the
power lines were tugging at the tower in the direction of the turning.
When these idiots unbolted this tower, the lines pulled it over.

Loss of expertise, loss of competence, zero common sense. Giants
built our infrastructure, midgets cannot maintain it. The only way to
keep what we have is meritocracy -- hire based on merit only.

Tony

2024-06-25 07:01:15 UTC

Now: "Inconceivable!"
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/520400/transpower-reveals-why-pylon-fell-causing-major-northland-outage
"It is unprecedented and inconceivable that so many nuts were removed
at once." -- Transpower CEO
"Inconceivable" is right, but not "unprecedented" -- I'll bet you that
those contractors have been doing this for a while, to where they
became complacent about it. So why did this tower fall now, when they
had not fallen before? Because this tower was not in a straight line
with neighbouring towers, the line direction was turning here, so the
power lines were tugging at the tower in the direction of the turning.
When these idiots unbolted this tower, the lines pulled it over.

A reasonable hypothesis. It is worth remembering that the lateral pressure on
the lines caused by just gentle winds can be significant, there is a reason
that the pylons are so strongly built and anchored.

Post by Willy Nilly
Loss of expertise, loss of competence, zero common sense. Giants
built our infrastructure, midgets cannot maintain it. The only way to
keep what we have is meritocracy -- hire based on merit only.

Willy Nilly

2024-08-01 01:38:54 UTC

Now everything I said is shown to be true:
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/523833/northland-power-outage-inexperienced-worker-removed-too-many-nuts-on-pylon

However the article avoids the topic of the complete idiocy of the
2-man crew (required to be 3-man), and pretends that documentation
needs to be improved. Undoubtedly the document writer did not
anticipate that people totally bereft of competence or common sense
would ever be doing this work. Should they add a section saying: "If
you are a total nitwit, read the following..."?

99.9% likely DEI hires, guaranteed not a white man within a country
mile. That topic not touched on by the article, of course, as no one
is more bereft of competence & common sense than a journalist.

Now: "Inconceivable!"
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/520400/transpower-reveals-why-pylon-fell-causing-major-northland-outage
"It is unprecedented and inconceivable that so many nuts were removed
at once." -- Transpower CEO
"Inconceivable" is right, but not "unprecedented" -- I'll bet you that
those contractors have been doing this for a while, to where they
became complacent about it. So why did this tower fall now, when they
had not fallen before? Because this tower was not in a straight line
with neighbouring towers, the line direction was turning here, so the
power lines were tugging at the tower in the direction of the turning.
When these idiots unbolted this tower, the lines pulled it over.
Loss of expertise, loss of competence, zero common sense. Giants
built our infrastructure, midgets cannot maintain it. The only way to
keep what we have is meritocracy -- hire based on merit only.

Rich80105

2024-08-01 03:20:49 UTC

Post by Willy Nilly
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/523833/northland-power-outage-inexperienced-worker-removed-too-many-nuts-on-pylon
However the article avoids the topic of the complete idiocy of the
2-man crew (required to be 3-man), and pretends that documentation
needs to be improved. Undoubtedly the document writer did not
anticipate that people totally bereft of competence or common sense
would ever be doing this work. Should they add a section saying: "If
you are a total nitwit, read the following..."?

The item that I heard on RNZ stated clearly that there was inadequate
supervision - but we do know that Christopher Luxon was not there so
any suggestion that he was responsible would be a lie.

Post by Willy Nilly
99.9% likely DEI hires, guaranteed not a white man within a country
mile. That topic not touched on by the article, of course, as no one
is more bereft of competence & common sense than a journalist.

I have not seen that suggestion anywhere, Willy Nilly - do you have
any evidence of that assertion?

Now: "Inconceivable!"
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/520400/transpower-reveals-why-pylon-fell-causing-major-northland-outage
"It is unprecedented and inconceivable that so many nuts were removed
at once." -- Transpower CEO
"Inconceivable" is right, but not "unprecedented" -- I'll bet you that
those contractors have been doing this for a while, to where they
became complacent about it. So why did this tower fall now, when they
had not fallen before? Because this tower was not in a straight line
with neighbouring towers, the line direction was turning here, so the
power lines were tugging at the tower in the direction of the turning.
When these idiots unbolted this tower, the lines pulled it over.
Loss of expertise, loss of competence, zero common sense. Giants
built our infrastructure, midgets cannot maintain it. The only way to
keep what we have is meritocracy -- hire based on merit only.

Tony

2024-08-01 07:40:43 UTC

The item that I heard on RNZ stated clearly that there was inadequate
supervision - but we do know that Christopher Luxon was not there so
any suggestion that he was responsible would be a lie.

Pathetic sarcasm - all you have!

I have not seen that suggestion anywhere, Willy Nilly - do you have
any evidence of that assertion?

Now: "Inconceivable!"
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/520400/transpower-reveals-why-pylon-fell-causing-major-northland-outage
"It is unprecedented and inconceivable that so many nuts were removed
at once." -- Transpower CEO
"Inconceivable" is right, but not "unprecedented" -- I'll bet you that
those contractors have been doing this for a while, to where they
became complacent about it. So why did this tower fall now, when they
had not fallen before? Because this tower was not in a straight line
with neighbouring towers, the line direction was turning here, so the
power lines were tugging at the tower in the direction of the turning.
When these idiots unbolted this tower, the lines pulled it over.
Loss of expertise, loss of competence, zero common sense. Giants
built our infrastructure, midgets cannot maintain it. The only way to
keep what we have is meritocracy -- hire based on merit only.

Crash

2024-08-01 09:14:50 UTC

The item that I heard on RNZ stated clearly that there was inadequate
supervision - but we do know that Christopher Luxon was not there so
any suggestion that he was responsible would be a lie.

The article did not mention Luxon. What did the RNZ article have to
say on this? Perhaps you could cite it. Perhaps this was a puerile
attempt at sarcasm from the viewpoint of a young teenager.

I have not seen that suggestion anywhere, Willy Nilly - do you have
any evidence of that assertion?

Now: "Inconceivable!"
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/520400/transpower-reveals-why-pylon-fell-causing-major-northland-outage
"It is unprecedented and inconceivable that so many nuts were removed
at once." -- Transpower CEO
"Inconceivable" is right, but not "unprecedented" -- I'll bet you that
those contractors have been doing this for a while, to where they
became complacent about it. So why did this tower fall now, when they
had not fallen before? Because this tower was not in a straight line
with neighbouring towers, the line direction was turning here, so the
power lines were tugging at the tower in the direction of the turning.
When these idiots unbolted this tower, the lines pulled it over.
Loss of expertise, loss of competence, zero common sense. Giants
built our infrastructure, midgets cannot maintain it. The only way to
keep what we have is meritocracy -- hire based on merit only.

--
Crash McBash

Gordon

2024-08-01 05:05:14 UTC

Post by Willy Nilly
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/523833/northland-power-outage-inexperienced-worker-removed-too-many-nuts-on-pylon

Good to see Stuff following up on this.

The mtce folks did not follow the rules, did not have a culture of why it is
a great idea to follow the manual.

It is rather like why one wears a seat belt, or crash helment, or hard hat; the vast
majority of the times it is not used.

Post by Willy Nilly
However the article avoids the topic of the complete idiocy of the
2-man crew (required to be 3-man), and pretends that documentation
needs to be improved. Undoubtedly the document writer did not
anticipate that people totally bereft of competence or common sense
would ever be doing this work. Should they add a section saying: "If
you are a total nitwit, read the following..."?
99.9% likely DEI hires, guaranteed not a white man within a country
mile. That topic not touched on by the article, of course, as no one
is more bereft of competence & common sense than a journalist.

Now: "Inconceivable!"
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/520400/transpower-reveals-why-pylon-fell-causing-major-northland-outage
"It is unprecedented and inconceivable that so many nuts were removed
at once." -- Transpower CEO
"Inconceivable" is right, but not "unprecedented" -- I'll bet you that
those contractors have been doing this for a while, to where they
became complacent about it. So why did this tower fall now, when they
had not fallen before? Because this tower was not in a straight line
with neighbouring towers, the line direction was turning here, so the
power lines were tugging at the tower in the direction of the turning.
When these idiots unbolted this tower, the lines pulled it over.
Loss of expertise, loss of competence, zero common sense. Giants
built our infrastructure, midgets cannot maintain it. The only way to
keep what we have is meritocracy -- hire based on merit only.

Mutley

2024-06-21 21:03:34 UTC

Bad maintenance practice I would assume. Why were the base holding
bolts all out? If it had been vandalism the crews would have seen
the bolts removed when they arrived or the tower would have fallen
earlier.

Gordon

2024-06-22 04:52:10 UTC

Yes, this cause has occured to me since posting. They were giving the base a
preperation for some new coating and it was so much less hassle to just
remove all the bolts while this was done.

Propably the method of doing the recoating was in some manual but not read
or understood the crew. Lack of training alonf with human nature was the
underlying cause.

Rich80105

2024-06-22 07:21:58 UTC

Post by Gordon

Yes, this cause has occured to me since posting. They were giving the base a
preperation for some new coating and it was so much less hassle to just
remove all the bolts while this was done.
Propably the method of doing the recoating was in some manual but not read
or understood the crew. Lack of training alonf with human nature was the
underlying cause.

2024-06-22 18:36:16 UTC

On Sat, 22 Jun 2024 19:21:58 +1200, Rich80105 <***@hotmail.com>
wrote:

.

Post by Rich80105
I haven't seen any journalist reporting that the bolts were removed by
the Maintenance crew, or any reference to preparation for a new
coating. Has there been a news article covering these, or is this just
speculation at this stage?

Why would you believe something just because a journalist or a news
article reports it?

Bill.

--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

Willy Nilly

2024-06-22 22:13:27 UTC

Post by BR

Why would you believe something just because a journalist or a news
article reports it?

More precisely, Rich believes something *only* if a journalist or news
article reports it. If it's not in the news, it didn't happen! To
Rich, a strange absence of news follow-up to an important event, is
not a data point to be considered.

To Rich, if a tower falls in the forest, and only the
narrative-embracing are there to see it fall, then it makes no sound.

Rich80105

2024-06-22 22:19:27 UTC

Post by BR
.

Why would you believe something just because a journalist or a news
article reports it?
Bill.

Because at present it appears to be mere speculation by a poster to
nz.general. Either it is true, or it is not, but currently there seems
to be no way to tell. Certainly photographs of the pylon do not appear
to have the extent of distortion we may expect if it had still been
firmly bolted to a ground pad - I posted a link to a photo yesterday
here:
https://x.com/rugbyintel/status/1803977755081732194

But to malign workers for what would have been a stupid act without
proof is more than a little unkind. So do we know the truth - not
necessarily all the truth, but a truth that is not likely to see a
journalist accused of offending against publishing material contrary
to journalist standards that their publisher has promised to uphold -
and can be sued, or fined, or at least required to publish an apology
if they have got it wrong. Shall we say I'd like see evidence a bit
more credible than a single post to a usenet group . . .

What makes you believe some things and not others, Bill? Do you
believe that the bolts were removed by the maintenance crew? If so, on
what do you base that belief?

Tony

2024-06-23 01:04:24 UTC

Post by BR
.

Why would you believe something just because a journalist or a news
article reports it?
Bill.

That was not done, however you have no business complaining because you are our
newsgroup's serial defamer.

Post by Rich80105
So do we know the truth - not
necessarily all the truth, but a truth that is not likely to see a
journalist accused of offending against publishing material contrary
to journalist standards that their publisher has promised to uphold -
and can be sued, or fined, or at least required to publish an apology
if they have got it wrong. Shall we say I'd like see evidence a bit
more credible than a single post to a usenet group . . .
What makes you believe some things and not others, Bill? Do you
believe that the bolts were removed by the maintenance crew? If so, on
what do you base that belief?

Rich80105

2024-06-24 02:12:59 UTC

Post by BR
.

Why would you believe something just because a journalist or a news
article reports it?
Bill.

Because at present it appears to be mere speculation by a poster to
nz.general. Either it is true, or it is not, but currently there seems
to be no way to tell. Certainly photographs of the pylon do not appear
to have the extent of distortion we may expect if it had still been
firmly bolted to a ground pad - I posted a link to a photo yesterday
https://x.com/rugbyintel/status/1803977755081732194
But to malign workers for what would have been a stupid act without
proof is more than a little unkind. So do we know the truth - not
necessarily all the truth, but a truth that is not likely to see a
journalist accused of offending against publishing material contrary
to journalist standards that their publisher has promised to uphold -
and can be sued, or fined, or at least required to publish an apology
if they have got it wrong. Shall we say I'd like see evidence a bit
more credible than a single post to a usenet group . . .
What makes you believe some things and not others, Bill? Do you
believe that the bolts were removed by the maintenance crew? If so, on
what do you base that belief?

Well it has now been confirmed that the workers removed bolts on three
of the four legs - sufficient to say that the rumour was substantially
correct; that the protestations that spreading rumours was unhelpful
was perhaps a little naive, and that mainstream media acted
responsibly. BR has not explained where he heard of the cause of the
pylon falling . . .

Tony

2024-06-24 02:59:04 UTC

Post by BR
.

Why would you believe something just because a journalist or a news
article reports it?
Bill.

Because at present it appears to be mere speculation by a poster to
nz.general. Either it is true, or it is not, but currently there seems
to be no way to tell. Certainly photographs of the pylon do not appear
to have the extent of distortion we may expect if it had still been
firmly bolted to a ground pad - I posted a link to a photo yesterday
https://x.com/rugbyintel/status/1803977755081732194
But to malign workers for what would have been a stupid act without
proof is more than a little unkind. So do we know the truth - not
necessarily all the truth, but a truth that is not likely to see a
journalist accused of offending against publishing material contrary
to journalist standards that their publisher has promised to uphold -
and can be sued, or fined, or at least required to publish an apology
if they have got it wrong. Shall we say I'd like see evidence a bit
more credible than a single post to a usenet group . . .
What makes you believe some things and not others, Bill? Do you
believe that the bolts were removed by the maintenance crew? If so, on
what do you base that belief?

At no point in this thread did BR state an opinion of what the cause was. So
why do you keep lying about what people write?

Mutley

2024-06-24 22:15:54 UTC

Post by BR
.

Why would you believe something just because a journalist or a news
article reports it?
Bill.

Because at present it appears to be mere speculation by a poster to
nz.general. Either it is true, or it is not, but currently there seems
to be no way to tell. Certainly photographs of the pylon do not appear
to have the extent of distortion we may expect if it had still been
firmly bolted to a ground pad - I posted a link to a photo yesterday
https://x.com/rugbyintel/status/1803977755081732194
But to malign workers for what would have been a stupid act without
proof is more than a little unkind. So do we know the truth - not
necessarily all the truth, but a truth that is not likely to see a
journalist accused of offending against publishing material contrary
to journalist standards that their publisher has promised to uphold -
and can be sued, or fined, or at least required to publish an apology
if they have got it wrong. Shall we say I'd like see evidence a bit
more credible than a single post to a usenet group . . .
What makes you believe some things and not others, Bill? Do you
believe that the bolts were removed by the maintenance crew? If so, on
what do you base that belief?

Come on Rich anyone who saw the pixs on the news that nite could see
that the nuts had been removed. The transpower CEO was just
bullshiting when she said that they have to do a detailed
investigation and sighing possible sabotage .

Rich80105

2024-06-24 23:05:21 UTC

Post by BR
.

Why would you believe something just because a journalist or a news
article reports it?
Bill.

Because at present it appears to be mere speculation by a poster to
nz.general. Either it is true, or it is not, but currently there seems
to be no way to tell. Certainly photographs of the pylon do not appear
to have the extent of distortion we may expect if it had still been
firmly bolted to a ground pad - I posted a link to a photo yesterday
https://x.com/rugbyintel/status/1803977755081732194
But to malign workers for what would have been a stupid act without
proof is more than a little unkind. So do we know the truth - not
necessarily all the truth, but a truth that is not likely to see a
journalist accused of offending against publishing material contrary
to journalist standards that their publisher has promised to uphold -
and can be sued, or fined, or at least required to publish an apology
if they have got it wrong. Shall we say I'd like see evidence a bit
more credible than a single post to a usenet group . . .
What makes you believe some things and not others, Bill? Do you
believe that the bolts were removed by the maintenance crew? If so, on
what do you base that belief?

Initial reports did not mention workers - the bolts may have been
removed by someone else.

Tony

2024-06-25 00:28:39 UTC

Post by BR
.

Why would you believe something just because a journalist or a news
article reports it?
Bill.

Because at present it appears to be mere speculation by a poster to
nz.general. Either it is true, or it is not, but currently there seems
to be no way to tell. Certainly photographs of the pylon do not appear
to have the extent of distortion we may expect if it had still been
firmly bolted to a ground pad - I posted a link to a photo yesterday
https://x.com/rugbyintel/status/1803977755081732194
But to malign workers for what would have been a stupid act without
proof is more than a little unkind. So do we know the truth - not
necessarily all the truth, but a truth that is not likely to see a
journalist accused of offending against publishing material contrary
to journalist standards that their publisher has promised to uphold -
and can be sued, or fined, or at least required to publish an apology
if they have got it wrong. Shall we say I'd like see evidence a bit
more credible than a single post to a usenet group . . .
What makes you believe some things and not others, Bill? Do you
believe that the bolts were removed by the maintenance crew? If so, on
what do you base that belief?

Initial reports did not mention workers - the bolts may have been
removed by someone else.

My bet is leprechauns, or a pissed off taniwha.
Geez what a dumbo you are Rich.

Crash

2024-06-25 04:02:21 UTC

Post by BR
.

Why would you believe something just because a journalist or a news
article reports it?
Bill.

Because at present it appears to be mere speculation by a poster to
nz.general. Either it is true, or it is not, but currently there seems
to be no way to tell. Certainly photographs of the pylon do not appear
to have the extent of distortion we may expect if it had still been
firmly bolted to a ground pad - I posted a link to a photo yesterday
https://x.com/rugbyintel/status/1803977755081732194
But to malign workers for what would have been a stupid act without
proof is more than a little unkind. So do we know the truth - not
necessarily all the truth, but a truth that is not likely to see a
journalist accused of offending against publishing material contrary
to journalist standards that their publisher has promised to uphold -
and can be sued, or fined, or at least required to publish an apology
if they have got it wrong. Shall we say I'd like see evidence a bit
more credible than a single post to a usenet group . . .
What makes you believe some things and not others, Bill? Do you
believe that the bolts were removed by the maintenance crew? If so, on
what do you base that belief?

Initial reports did not mention workers

Neither did Mutley.

Post by Rich80105
- the bolts may have been
removed by someone else.

Who did it is not particularly relevant. The fact that this caused
the outage is relevant.

--
Crash McBash

Gordon

2024-06-26 01:08:22 UTC

Post by BR
.

Why would you believe something just because a journalist or a news
article reports it?
Bill.

Because at present it appears to be mere speculation by a poster to
nz.general. Either it is true, or it is not, but currently there seems
to be no way to tell. Certainly photographs of the pylon do not appear
to have the extent of distortion we may expect if it had still been
firmly bolted to a ground pad - I posted a link to a photo yesterday
https://x.com/rugbyintel/status/1803977755081732194
But to malign workers for what would have been a stupid act without
proof is more than a little unkind. So do we know the truth - not
necessarily all the truth, but a truth that is not likely to see a
journalist accused of offending against publishing material contrary
to journalist standards that their publisher has promised to uphold -
and can be sued, or fined, or at least required to publish an apology
if they have got it wrong. Shall we say I'd like see evidence a bit
more credible than a single post to a usenet group . . .
What makes you believe some things and not others, Bill? Do you
believe that the bolts were removed by the maintenance crew? If so, on
what do you base that belief?

Initial reports did not mention workers - the bolts may have been
removed by someone else.

However the first article did say that mtce was being done on the lines.

Gordon

2024-06-26 01:06:31 UTC

Post by BR
.

Why would you believe something just because a journalist or a news
article reports it?
Bill.

Because at present it appears to be mere speculation by a poster to
nz.general. Either it is true, or it is not, but currently there seems
to be no way to tell. Certainly photographs of the pylon do not appear
to have the extent of distortion we may expect if it had still been
firmly bolted to a ground pad - I posted a link to a photo yesterday
https://x.com/rugbyintel/status/1803977755081732194
But to malign workers for what would have been a stupid act without
proof is more than a little unkind. So do we know the truth - not
necessarily all the truth, but a truth that is not likely to see a
journalist accused of offending against publishing material contrary
to journalist standards that their publisher has promised to uphold -
and can be sued, or fined, or at least required to publish an apology
if they have got it wrong. Shall we say I'd like see evidence a bit
more credible than a single post to a usenet group . . .
What makes you believe some things and not others, Bill? Do you
believe that the bolts were removed by the maintenance crew? If so, on
what do you base that belief?

Not bullshitting, just being careful not to say too much, until all the
facts were known. A bit of time in cases such as this stops all the
mis-infomation from going vrial, which can not be corrected.

Gordon

2024-06-26 01:01:24 UTC

Post by BR
.

Why would you believe something just because a journalist or a news
article reports it?
Bill.

Because at present it appears to be mere speculation by a poster to
nz.general. Either it is true, or it is not, but currently there seems
to be no way to tell. Certainly photographs of the pylon do not appear
to have the extent of distortion we may expect if it had still been
firmly bolted to a ground pad - I posted a link to a photo yesterday
https://x.com/rugbyintel/status/1803977755081732194
But to malign workers for what would have been a stupid act without
proof is more than a little unkind. So do we know the truth - not
necessarily all the truth, but a truth that is not likely to see a
journalist accused of offending against publishing material contrary
to journalist standards that their publisher has promised to uphold -
and can be sued, or fined, or at least required to publish an apology
if they have got it wrong. Shall we say I'd like see evidence a bit
more credible than a single post to a usenet group . . .
What makes you believe some things and not others, Bill? Do you
believe that the bolts were removed by the maintenance crew? If so, on
what do you base that belief?

Rich old chap. The Stuff article made comment about three nuts being removed.
And then went on to say that the workers were compentent.

Also that the required procedures where not followed.

Rich80105

2024-06-26 03:26:47 UTC

Post by Gordon

Post by BR
.

Why would you believe something just because a journalist or a news
article reports it?
Bill.

Because at present it appears to be mere speculation by a poster to
nz.general. Either it is true, or it is not, but currently there seems
to be no way to tell. Certainly photographs of the pylon do not appear
to have the extent of distortion we may expect if it had still been
firmly bolted to a ground pad - I posted a link to a photo yesterday
https://x.com/rugbyintel/status/1803977755081732194
But to malign workers for what would have been a stupid act without
proof is more than a little unkind. So do we know the truth - not
necessarily all the truth, but a truth that is not likely to see a
journalist accused of offending against publishing material contrary
to journalist standards that their publisher has promised to uphold -
and can be sued, or fined, or at least required to publish an apology
if they have got it wrong. Shall we say I'd like see evidence a bit
more credible than a single post to a usenet group . . .
What makes you believe some things and not others, Bill? Do you
believe that the bolts were removed by the maintenance crew? If so, on
what do you base that belief?

Rich old chap. The Stuff article made comment about three nuts being removed.
And then went on to say that the workers were compentent.

At the time I asked for any reports other than on social media I had
not seen any news reports. There have now been plenty.

Post by Gordon
Also that the required procedures where not followed.

Tony

2024-06-26 07:04:05 UTC

Post by BR
.

Why would you believe something just because a journalist or a news
article reports it?
Bill.

Because at present it appears to be mere speculation by a poster to
nz.general. Either it is true, or it is not, but currently there seems
to be no way to tell. Certainly photographs of the pylon do not appear
to have the extent of distortion we may expect if it had still been
firmly bolted to a ground pad - I posted a link to a photo yesterday
https://x.com/rugbyintel/status/1803977755081732194
But to malign workers for what would have been a stupid act without
proof is more than a little unkind. So do we know the truth - not
necessarily all the truth, but a truth that is not likely to see a
journalist accused of offending against publishing material contrary
to journalist standards that their publisher has promised to uphold -
and can be sued, or fined, or at least required to publish an apology
if they have got it wrong. Shall we say I'd like see evidence a bit
more credible than a single post to a usenet group . . .
What makes you believe some things and not others, Bill? Do you
believe that the bolts were removed by the maintenance crew? If so, on
what do you base that belief?

Rich old chap. The Stuff article made comment about three nuts being removed.
And then went on to say that the workers were compentent.

At the time I asked for any reports other than on social media I had
not seen any news reports. There have now been plenty.

Yeah just another Rich twist and turn. You were wrong.

Post by Gordon
Also that the required procedures where not followed.

Rich80105

2024-06-26 10:44:10 UTC

On Wed, 26 Jun 2024 07:04:05 -0000 (UTC), Tony

Post by BR
.

Why would you believe something just because a journalist or a news
article reports it?
Bill.

Because at present it appears to be mere speculation by a poster to
nz.general. Either it is true, or it is not, but currently there seems
to be no way to tell. Certainly photographs of the pylon do not appear
to have the extent of distortion we may expect if it had still been
firmly bolted to a ground pad - I posted a link to a photo yesterday
https://x.com/rugbyintel/status/1803977755081732194
But to malign workers for what would have been a stupid act without
proof is more than a little unkind. So do we know the truth - not
necessarily all the truth, but a truth that is not likely to see a
journalist accused of offending against publishing material contrary
to journalist standards that their publisher has promised to uphold -
and can be sued, or fined, or at least required to publish an apology
if they have got it wrong. Shall we say I'd like see evidence a bit
more credible than a single post to a usenet group . . .
What makes you believe some things and not others, Bill? Do you
believe that the bolts were removed by the maintenance crew? If so, on
what do you base that belief?

Rich old chap. The Stuff article made comment about three nuts being removed.
And then went on to say that the workers were compentent.

At the time I asked for any reports other than on social media I had
not seen any news reports. There have now been plenty.

Yeah just another Rich twist and turn. You were wrong.

I asked a question. Your posts demonstrate that you not only did not
have an answer, but you tried to criticise on the basis of totally
stupid views of your own . . .

Post by Gordon
Also that the required procedures where not followed.

Tony

2024-06-26 20:29:16 UTC

Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 26 Jun 2024 07:04:05 -0000 (UTC), Tony

Post by BR
.

Why would you believe something just because a journalist or a news
article reports it?
Bill.

Because at present it appears to be mere speculation by a poster to
nz.general. Either it is true, or it is not, but currently there seems
to be no way to tell. Certainly photographs of the pylon do not appear
to have the extent of distortion we may expect if it had still been
firmly bolted to a ground pad - I posted a link to a photo yesterday
https://x.com/rugbyintel/status/1803977755081732194
But to malign workers for what would have been a stupid act without
proof is more than a little unkind. So do we know the truth - not
necessarily all the truth, but a truth that is not likely to see a
journalist accused of offending against publishing material contrary
to journalist standards that their publisher has promised to uphold -
and can be sued, or fined, or at least required to publish an apology
if they have got it wrong. Shall we say I'd like see evidence a bit
more credible than a single post to a usenet group . . .
What makes you believe some things and not others, Bill? Do you
believe that the bolts were removed by the maintenance crew? If so, on
what do you base that belief?

Rich old chap. The Stuff article made comment about three nuts being removed.
And then went on to say that the workers were compentent.

At the time I asked for any reports other than on social media I had
not seen any news reports. There have now been plenty.

Yeah just another Rich twist and turn. You were wrong.

I asked a question. Your posts demonstrate that you not only did not
have an answer, but you tried to criticise on the basis of totally
stupid views of your own . . .

No you are a liar, you twist and turn like the snake that you show yourself to
be every day.
You made assumptions and we all know what that leads to, idiocy.

Post by Gordon
Also that the required procedures where not followed.

Rich80105

2024-06-27 00:27:15 UTC

On Wed, 26 Jun 2024 20:29:16 -0000 (UTC), Tony

Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 26 Jun 2024 07:04:05 -0000 (UTC), Tony

Post by BR
.

Why would you believe something just because a journalist or a news
article reports it?
Bill.

Because at present it appears to be mere speculation by a poster to
nz.general. Either it is true, or it is not, but currently there seems
to be no way to tell. Certainly photographs of the pylon do not appear
to have the extent of distortion we may expect if it had still been
firmly bolted to a ground pad - I posted a link to a photo yesterday
https://x.com/rugbyintel/status/1803977755081732194
But to malign workers for what would have been a stupid act without
proof is more than a little unkind. So do we know the truth - not
necessarily all the truth, but a truth that is not likely to see a
journalist accused of offending against publishing material contrary
to journalist standards that their publisher has promised to uphold -
and can be sued, or fined, or at least required to publish an apology
if they have got it wrong. Shall we say I'd like see evidence a bit
more credible than a single post to a usenet group . . .
What makes you believe some things and not others, Bill? Do you
believe that the bolts were removed by the maintenance crew? If so, on
what do you base that belief?

Rich old chap. The Stuff article made comment about three nuts being removed.
And then went on to say that the workers were compentent.

At the time I asked for any reports other than on social media I had
not seen any news reports. There have now been plenty.

Yeah just another Rich twist and turn. You were wrong.

I asked a question. Your posts demonstrate that you not only did not
have an answer, but you tried to criticise on the basis of totally
stupid views of your own . . .

No you are a liar, you twist and turn like the snake that you show yourself to
be every day.
You made assumptions and we all know what that leads to, idiocy.

Post by Gordon
Also that the required procedures where not followed.

It appears that the post you are objecting to is my post at 22/6/2024
7:29pm as below:

______________________________________________________________

Post by Tony
https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/350308986/live-fallen-transpower-tower-leaves-much-northland-without-electricity
Interesting to know if vandalism or poor upkeep was the cause of the
problem. Not a thing that happens every day.

Yes, this cause has occured to me since posting. They were giving the base a
preperation for some new coating and it was so much less hassle to just
remove all the bolts while this was done.
Propably the method of doing the recoating was in some manual but not read
or understood the crew. Lack of training alonf with human nature was the
underlying cause.

I haven't seen any journalist reporting that the bolts were removed by
the Maintenance crew, or any reference to preparation for a new
coating. Has there been a news article covering these, or is this just
speculation at this stage?
________________________________________________________________

So do tell what assumptions was I making, Tony? All I was doing was
seeking evidence! But then you appear to hate actual evidence . . .

Tony

2024-06-27 00:39:41 UTC

Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 26 Jun 2024 20:29:16 -0000 (UTC), Tony

Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 26 Jun 2024 07:04:05 -0000 (UTC), Tony

Post by BR
.

Why would you believe something just because a journalist or a news
article reports it?
Bill.

Because at present it appears to be mere speculation by a poster to
nz.general. Either it is true, or it is not, but currently there seems
to be no way to tell. Certainly photographs of the pylon do not appear
to have the extent of distortion we may expect if it had still been
firmly bolted to a ground pad - I posted a link to a photo yesterday
https://x.com/rugbyintel/status/1803977755081732194
But to malign workers for what would have been a stupid act without
proof is more than a little unkind. So do we know the truth - not
necessarily all the truth, but a truth that is not likely to see a
journalist accused of offending against publishing material contrary
to journalist standards that their publisher has promised to uphold -
and can be sued, or fined, or at least required to publish an apology
if they have got it wrong. Shall we say I'd like see evidence a bit
more credible than a single post to a usenet group . . .
What makes you believe some things and not others, Bill? Do you
believe that the bolts were removed by the maintenance crew? If so, on
what do you base that belief?

Rich old chap. The Stuff article made comment about three nuts being removed.
And then went on to say that the workers were compentent.

At the time I asked for any reports other than on social media I had
not seen any news reports. There have now been plenty.

Yeah just another Rich twist and turn. You were wrong.

I asked a question. Your posts demonstrate that you not only did not
have an answer, but you tried to criticise on the basis of totally
stupid views of your own . . .

No you are a liar, you twist and turn like the snake that you show yourself to
be every day.
You made assumptions and we all know what that leads to, idiocy.

Post by Gordon
Also that the required procedures where not followed.

It appears that the post you are objecting to is my post at 22/6/2024
______________________________________________________________

If you want to talk to Gordon, answer him not me!

Yes, this cause has occured to me since posting. They were giving the base a
preperation for some new coating and it was so much less hassle to just
remove all the bolts while this was done.
Propably the method of doing the recoating was in some manual but not read
or understood the crew. Lack of training alonf with human nature was the
underlying cause.

I haven't seen any journalist reporting that the bolts were removed by
the Maintenance crew, or any reference to preparation for a new
coating. Has there been a news article covering these, or is this just
speculation at this stage?
________________________________________________________________
So do tell what assumptions was I making, Tony? All I was doing was
seeking evidence!

Abuse removed. (again!).
No you assumed stuff as usual. For instance you made some inane suggestion
about distortion of plates etc. Goddness knows why someone like you would guess
about something they do not even begin to understand but hey that is what you
are.

Rich80105

2024-06-27 02:39:10 UTC

On Thu, 27 Jun 2024 00:39:41 -0000 (UTC), Tony

Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 26 Jun 2024 20:29:16 -0000 (UTC), Tony

Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 26 Jun 2024 07:04:05 -0000 (UTC), Tony

Post by BR
.

Why would you believe something just because a journalist or a news
article reports it?
Bill.

Because at present it appears to be mere speculation by a poster to
nz.general. Either it is true, or it is not, but currently there seems
to be no way to tell. Certainly photographs of the pylon do not appear
to have the extent of distortion we may expect if it had still been
firmly bolted to a ground pad - I posted a link to a photo yesterday
https://x.com/rugbyintel/status/1803977755081732194
But to malign workers for what would have been a stupid act without
proof is more than a little unkind. So do we know the truth - not
necessarily all the truth, but a truth that is not likely to see a
journalist accused of offending against publishing material contrary
to journalist standards that their publisher has promised to uphold -
and can be sued, or fined, or at least required to publish an apology
if they have got it wrong. Shall we say I'd like see evidence a bit
more credible than a single post to a usenet group . . .
What makes you believe some things and not others, Bill? Do you
believe that the bolts were removed by the maintenance crew? If so, on
what do you base that belief?

Rich old chap. The Stuff article made comment about three nuts being removed.
And then went on to say that the workers were compentent.

At the time I asked for any reports other than on social media I had
not seen any news reports. There have now been plenty.

Yeah just another Rich twist and turn. You were wrong.

I asked a question. Your posts demonstrate that you not only did not
have an answer, but you tried to criticise on the basis of totally
stupid views of your own . . .

No you are a liar, you twist and turn like the snake that you show yourself to
be every day.
You made assumptions and we all know what that leads to, idiocy.

Post by Gordon
Also that the required procedures where not followed.

It appears that the post you are objecting to is my post at 22/6/2024
______________________________________________________________

If you want to talk to Gordon, answer him not me!

Yes, this cause has occured to me since posting. They were giving the base a
preperation for some new coating and it was so much less hassle to just
remove all the bolts while this was done.
Propably the method of doing the recoating was in some manual but not read
or understood the crew. Lack of training alonf with human nature was the
underlying cause.

I haven't seen any journalist reporting that the bolts were removed by
the Maintenance crew, or any reference to preparation for a new
coating. Has there been a news article covering these, or is this just
speculation at this stage?
________________________________________________________________
So do tell what assumptions was I making, Tony? All I was doing was
seeking evidence!

Now you are going off topic yet again. You claimed I made assumptions
when I asked the question back on 22 June - having re-posted that
question, I quite fairly asked you what assumptions I was making -
instead you have drifted off onto other issues. You may apologise,
Tony for your abuse and wrong statements about me.

Tony

2024-06-27 03:53:12 UTC

Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 27 Jun 2024 00:39:41 -0000 (UTC), Tony

Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 26 Jun 2024 20:29:16 -0000 (UTC), Tony

Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 26 Jun 2024 07:04:05 -0000 (UTC), Tony

Post by BR
.

Why would you believe something just because a journalist or a news
article reports it?
Bill.

Because at present it appears to be mere speculation by a poster to
nz.general. Either it is true, or it is not, but currently there seems
to be no way to tell. Certainly photographs of the pylon do not appear
to have the extent of distortion we may expect if it had still been
firmly bolted to a ground pad - I posted a link to a photo yesterday
https://x.com/rugbyintel/status/1803977755081732194
But to malign workers for what would have been a stupid act without
proof is more than a little unkind. So do we know the truth - not
necessarily all the truth, but a truth that is not likely to see a
journalist accused of offending against publishing material contrary
to journalist standards that their publisher has promised to uphold -
and can be sued, or fined, or at least required to publish an apology
if they have got it wrong. Shall we say I'd like see evidence a bit
more credible than a single post to a usenet group . . .
What makes you believe some things and not others, Bill? Do you
believe that the bolts were removed by the maintenance crew? If so, on
what do you base that belief?

Rich old chap. The Stuff article made comment about three nuts being removed.
And then went on to say that the workers were compentent.

At the time I asked for any reports other than on social media I had
not seen any news reports. There have now been plenty.

Yeah just another Rich twist and turn. You were wrong.

I asked a question. Your posts demonstrate that you not only did not
have an answer, but you tried to criticise on the basis of totally
stupid views of your own . . .

No you are a liar, you twist and turn like the snake that you show yourself to
be every day.
You made assumptions and we all know what that leads to, idiocy.

Post by Gordon
Also that the required procedures where not followed.

It appears that the post you are objecting to is my post at 22/6/2024
______________________________________________________________

If you want to talk to Gordon, answer him not me!

Yes, this cause has occured to me since posting. They were giving the base a
preperation for some new coating and it was so much less hassle to just
remove all the bolts while this was done.
Propably the method of doing the recoating was in some manual but not read
or understood the crew. Lack of training alonf with human nature was the
underlying cause.

I haven't seen any journalist reporting that the bolts were removed by
the Maintenance crew, or any reference to preparation for a new
coating. Has there been a news article covering these, or is this just
speculation at this stage?
________________________________________________________________
So do tell what assumptions was I making, Tony? All I was doing was
seeking evidence!

I never mentioned the 22nd of June, I made it clear what I was referring to,
the 22nd is your fall back excuse for your lies in this thread.
Piss off you childish little loser.
No wrong statements, I have never lied here, and you should apologise for your
very existence.

Rich80105

2024-06-27 04:34:00 UTC

On Thu, 27 Jun 2024 03:53:12 -0000 (UTC), Tony

Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 27 Jun 2024 00:39:41 -0000 (UTC), Tony

Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 26 Jun 2024 20:29:16 -0000 (UTC), Tony

Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 26 Jun 2024 07:04:05 -0000 (UTC), Tony

Post by BR
.

Why would you believe something just because a journalist or a news
article reports it?
Bill.

Because at present it appears to be mere speculation by a poster to
nz.general. Either it is true, or it is not, but currently there seems
to be no way to tell. Certainly photographs of the pylon do not appear
to have the extent of distortion we may expect if it had still been
firmly bolted to a ground pad - I posted a link to a photo yesterday
https://x.com/rugbyintel/status/1803977755081732194
But to malign workers for what would have been a stupid act without
proof is more than a little unkind. So do we know the truth - not
necessarily all the truth, but a truth that is not likely to see a
journalist accused of offending against publishing material contrary
to journalist standards that their publisher has promised to uphold -
and can be sued, or fined, or at least required to publish an apology
if they have got it wrong. Shall we say I'd like see evidence a bit
more credible than a single post to a usenet group . . .
What makes you believe some things and not others, Bill? Do you
believe that the bolts were removed by the maintenance crew? If so, on
what do you base that belief?

Rich old chap. The Stuff article made comment about three nuts being removed.
And then went on to say that the workers were compentent.

At the time I asked for any reports other than on social media I had
not seen any news reports. There have now been plenty.

Yeah just another Rich twist and turn. You were wrong.

I asked a question. Your posts demonstrate that you not only did not
have an answer, but you tried to criticise on the basis of totally
stupid views of your own . . .

No you are a liar, you twist and turn like the snake that you show yourself to
be every day.
You made assumptions and we all know what that leads to, idiocy.

Post by Gordon
Also that the required procedures where not followed.

It appears that the post you are objecting to is my post at 22/6/2024
______________________________________________________________

If you want to talk to Gordon, answer him not me!

Yes, this cause has occured to me since posting. They were giving the base a
preperation for some new coating and it was so much less hassle to just
remove all the bolts while this was done.
Propably the method of doing the recoating was in some manual but not read
or understood the crew. Lack of training alonf with human nature was the
underlying cause.

I haven't seen any journalist reporting that the bolts were removed by
the Maintenance crew, or any reference to preparation for a new
coating. Has there been a news article covering these, or is this just
speculation at this stage?
________________________________________________________________
So do tell what assumptions was I making, Tony? All I was doing was
seeking evidence!

Now you are denying your own posts - but for all the wrong reasons.
You may be trying to be a defender of your beliefs, but you come
across as an obnoxious ignorant twit.

Tony

2024-06-27 06:25:09 UTC

Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 27 Jun 2024 03:53:12 -0000 (UTC), Tony

Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 27 Jun 2024 00:39:41 -0000 (UTC), Tony

Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 26 Jun 2024 20:29:16 -0000 (UTC), Tony

Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 26 Jun 2024 07:04:05 -0000 (UTC), Tony

Post by BR
On Sat, 22 Jun 2024 19:21:58 +1200, Rich80105
.

Post by Rich80105
I haven't seen any journalist reporting that the bolts were
removed
by
the Maintenance crew, or any reference to preparation for a new
coating. Has there been a news article covering these, or is this
just
speculation at this stage?

Why would you believe something just because a journalist or a news
article reports it?
Bill.

Because at present it appears to be mere speculation by a poster to
nz.general. Either it is true, or it is not, but currently there seems
to be no way to tell. Certainly photographs of the pylon do not appear
to have the extent of distortion we may expect if it had still been
firmly bolted to a ground pad - I posted a link to a photo yesterday
https://x.com/rugbyintel/status/1803977755081732194
But to malign workers for what would have been a stupid act without
proof is more than a little unkind. So do we know the truth - not
necessarily all the truth, but a truth that is not likely to see a
journalist accused of offending against publishing material contrary
to journalist standards that their publisher has promised to uphold -
and can be sued, or fined, or at least required to publish an apology
if they have got it wrong. Shall we say I'd like see evidence a bit
more credible than a single post to a usenet group . . .
What makes you believe some things and not others, Bill? Do you
believe that the bolts were removed by the maintenance crew? If so, on
what do you base that belief?

Rich old chap. The Stuff article made comment about three nuts being
removed.
And then went on to say that the workers were compentent.

At the time I asked for any reports other than on social media I had
not seen any news reports. There have now been plenty.

Yeah just another Rich twist and turn. You were wrong.

I asked a question. Your posts demonstrate that you not only did not
have an answer, but you tried to criticise on the basis of totally
stupid views of your own . . .

No you are a liar, you twist and turn like the snake that you show
yourself
to
be every day.
You made assumptions and we all know what that leads to, idiocy.

Post by Gordon
Also that the required procedures where not followed.

It appears that the post you are objecting to is my post at 22/6/2024
______________________________________________________________

If you want to talk to Gordon, answer him not me!