Socialist Healthcare Is The Only Kind Of Healthcare That Works

[Lawrence D'Oliveiro]

Interesting to see quite an about-turn on the part of the Act party
over how to fund healthcare
<https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/david-seymours-whole-of-society-plan-for-tipping-millions-of-dollars-more-in-to-pharmac-and-big-pharma/6G4YGG76SRDIHHPVHAVZVOKPQA/>:
even the most rabidly pro-free-market of our political parties
realizes that a US-style market-driven approach to healthcare funding
is a disaster. And the party that once tried to cut Pharmac off at the
knees is now very careful to ensure the agency gets enough money.

[BR]

On Tue, 13 Aug 2024 23:39:12 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro

Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Interesting to see quite an about-turn on the part of the Act party
over how to fund healthcare
even the most rabidly pro-free-market of our political parties
realizes that a US-style market-driven approach to healthcare funding
is a disaster. And the party that once tried to cut Pharmac off at the
knees is now very careful to ensure the agency gets enough money.

So is healthcare a human right or a commodity?

Bill.

[Rich80105]

Post by BR
On Tue, 13 Aug 2024 23:39:12 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro

Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Interesting to see quite an about-turn on the part of the Act party
over how to fund healthcare
even the most rabidly pro-free-market of our political parties
realizes that a US-style market-driven approach to healthcare funding
is a disaster. And the party that once tried to cut Pharmac off at the
knees is now very careful to ensure the agency gets enough money.

So is healthcare a human right or a commodity?
Bill.

At a minimum level, it should definitely be considered a human right.
No country could afford to provide high levels of care and support for
all health services; most countries require personal payment for some
services such as cosmetic surgery for personal preference reasons.
Overall, lower levels of service from government lead to poorer
outcomes for those countries - the USA is an example of overall costs
being about three times per head of population than countries like New
Zealand for similar levels of healthcare.

[BR]

Post by Rich80105

Post by BR
On Tue, 13 Aug 2024 23:39:12 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro

Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Interesting to see quite an about-turn on the part of the Act party
over how to fund healthcare
even the most rabidly pro-free-market of our political parties
realizes that a US-style market-driven approach to healthcare funding
is a disaster. And the party that once tried to cut Pharmac off at the
knees is now very careful to ensure the agency gets enough money.

So is healthcare a human right or a commodity?
Bill.

At a minimum level, it should definitely be considered a human right.

What do you mean "consider" it a human right? Either it is or it
isn't. It can't be both.

Post by Rich80105
No country could afford to provide high levels of care and support for
all health services; most countries require personal payment for some
services such as cosmetic surgery for personal preference reasons.
Overall, lower levels of service from government lead to poorer
outcomes for those countries - the USA is an example of overall costs
being about three times per head of population than countries like New
Zealand for similar levels of healthcare.

Meaningless political waffle. Do you even know the difference between
a human right and a commodity?

Bill.

[Rich80105]

Post by BR

Post by Rich80105

Post by BR
On Tue, 13 Aug 2024 23:39:12 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro

Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Interesting to see quite an about-turn on the part of the Act party
over how to fund healthcare
even the most rabidly pro-free-market of our political parties
realizes that a US-style market-driven approach to healthcare funding
is a disaster. And the party that once tried to cut Pharmac off at the
knees is now very careful to ensure the agency gets enough money.

So is healthcare a human right or a commodity?
Bill.

At a minimum level, it should definitely be considered a human right.

What do you mean "consider" it a human right? Either it is or it
isn't. It can't be both.

Define human right, and define commodity. I suspect if you take the
leaders of each political party they would interpret them differently

Post by BR

Post by Rich80105
No country could afford to provide high levels of care and support for
all health services; most countries require personal payment for some
services such as cosmetic surgery for personal preference reasons.
Overall, lower levels of service from government lead to poorer
outcomes for those countries - the USA is an example of overall costs
being about three times per head of population than countries like New
Zealand for similar levels of healthcare.

Meaningless political waffle. Do you even know the difference between
a human right and a commodity?

I am sure we will all have a little more knowledge from your
definitions . . .

Post by BR
Bill.

[BR]

Post by Rich80105

Post by BR

Post by Rich80105

Post by BR
On Tue, 13 Aug 2024 23:39:12 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro

Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Interesting to see quite an about-turn on the part of the Act party
over how to fund healthcare
even the most rabidly pro-free-market of our political parties
realizes that a US-style market-driven approach to healthcare funding
is a disaster. And the party that once tried to cut Pharmac off at the
knees is now very careful to ensure the agency gets enough money.

So is healthcare a human right or a commodity?
Bill.

At a minimum level, it should definitely be considered a human right.

What do you mean "consider" it a human right? Either it is or it
isn't. It can't be both.

Define human right, and define commodity. I suspect if you take the
leaders of each political party they would interpret them differently.

I am not interested in what politicians say they believe.

Post by Rich80105

Post by BR

Post by Rich80105
No country could afford to provide high levels of care and support for
all health services; most countries require personal payment for some
services such as cosmetic surgery for personal preference reasons.
Overall, lower levels of service from government lead to poorer
outcomes for those countries - the USA is an example of overall costs
being about three times per head of population than countries like New
Zealand for similar levels of healthcare.

Meaningless political waffle. Do you even know the difference between
a human right and a commodity?

I am sure we will all have a little more knowledge from your
definitions . . .

A commodity is something that is in limited supply and can be measured
in monetary terms. A human right is none of that.

Bill.

[Rich80105]

Post by BR

Post by Rich80105

Post by BR

Post by Rich80105

Post by BR
On Tue, 13 Aug 2024 23:39:12 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro

Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Interesting to see quite an about-turn on the part of the Act party
over how to fund healthcare
even the most rabidly pro-free-market of our political parties
realizes that a US-style market-driven approach to healthcare funding
is a disaster. And the party that once tried to cut Pharmac off at the
knees is now very careful to ensure the agency gets enough money.

So is healthcare a human right or a commodity?
Bill.

At a minimum level, it should definitely be considered a human right.

What do you mean "consider" it a human right? Either it is or it
isn't. It can't be both.

Define human right, and define commodity. I suspect if you take the
leaders of each political party they would interpret them differently.

I am not interested in what politicians say they believe.

I was asking BR for his view so that the responses could relate
reasonably to the question. I suspect that if you take three posters
to nz.general at random they would have at least two interpretations
of those words

Post by BR

Post by Rich80105

Post by BR

Post by Rich80105
No country could afford to provide high levels of care and support for
all health services; most countries require personal payment for some
services such as cosmetic surgery for personal preference reasons.
Overall, lower levels of service from government lead to poorer
outcomes for those countries - the USA is an example of overall costs
being about three times per head of population than countries like New
Zealand for similar levels of healthcare.

Meaningless political waffle. Do you even know the difference between
a human right and a commodity?

I am sure we will all have a little more knowledge from your
definitions . . .

A commodity is something that is in limited supply and can be measured
in monetary terms. A human right is none of that.
Bill.

The question was "So is healthcare a human right or a commodity" I am
not sure if you believe your definitions relate to that question.

[BR]

Post by Rich80105

Post by BR

Post by Rich80105

Post by BR

Post by Rich80105

Post by BR
On Tue, 13 Aug 2024 23:39:12 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro

Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Interesting to see quite an about-turn on the part of the Act party
over how to fund healthcare
even the most rabidly pro-free-market of our political parties
realizes that a US-style market-driven approach to healthcare funding
is a disaster. And the party that once tried to cut Pharmac off at the
knees is now very careful to ensure the agency gets enough money.

So is healthcare a human right or a commodity?
Bill.

At a minimum level, it should definitely be considered a human right.

What do you mean "consider" it a human right? Either it is or it
isn't. It can't be both.

Define human right, and define commodity. I suspect if you take the
leaders of each political party they would interpret them differently.

I am not interested in what politicians say they believe.

I was asking BR for his view so that the responses could relate
reasonably to the question. I suspect that if you take three posters
to nz.general at random they would have at least two interpretations
of those words

Post by BR

Post by Rich80105

Post by BR

Post by Rich80105
No country could afford to provide high levels of care and support for
all health services; most countries require personal payment for some
services such as cosmetic surgery for personal preference reasons.
Overall, lower levels of service from government lead to poorer
outcomes for those countries - the USA is an example of overall costs
being about three times per head of population than countries like New
Zealand for similar levels of healthcare.

Meaningless political waffle. Do you even know the difference between
a human right and a commodity?

I am sure we will all have a little more knowledge from your
definitions . . .

A commodity is something that is in limited supply and can be measured
in monetary terms. A human right is none of that.
Bill.

The question was "So is healthcare a human right or a commodity" I am
not sure if you believe your definitions relate to that question.

It exactly relates.

What about food?

Human right or commodity?

Bill.