Discussion:
Craven weakness of our Government
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Rich80105
2025-04-07 05:04:26 UTC
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https://norightturn.blogspot.com/2025/04/the-ideology-of-grovelling-to-trump.html
Crash
2025-04-07 05:46:55 UTC
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Post by Rich80105
https://norightturn.blogspot.com/2025/04/the-ideology-of-grovelling-to-trump.html
Craven stupidity in that article, starting with "Yesterday the Trump
regime in America began a global trade war". Emotive clap-trap,
unless they describe every POTUS as a regime-leader, and everything
Trump does as a 'war'.

Trump is very wrong, but the best we can do is await developments and
there is no escaping the wisdom in our Government doing just that.
With every country in the world, our access to their market is beyond
our control. We are too small to have any leverage with anyone, let
alone the 'Trump regime'.
--
Crash McBash
Tony
2025-04-07 07:15:11 UTC
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Post by Rich80105
https://norightturn.blogspot.com/2025/04/the-ideology-of-grovelling-to-trump.html
What idiocy, the government has no possible way to influence Trump. We need to
wait it out.
Rich80105
2025-04-07 09:41:31 UTC
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On Mon, 7 Apr 2025 07:15:11 -0000 (UTC), Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
https://norightturn.blogspot.com/2025/04/the-ideology-of-grovelling-to-trump.html
What idiocy, the government has no possible way to influence Trump. We need to
wait it out.
A tit for tat imposition of tariffs by New Zealand, possibly only to
apply to imports from the USA) could at least bring some money in. We
are too small to be significant to USA finances.
Tony
2025-04-07 19:52:09 UTC
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Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 7 Apr 2025 07:15:11 -0000 (UTC), Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
https://norightturn.blogspot.com/2025/04/the-ideology-of-grovelling-to-trump.html
What idiocy, the government has no possible way to influence Trump. We need to
wait it out.
A tit for tat imposition of tariffs by New Zealand, possibly only to
apply to imports from the USA) could at least bring some money in. We
are too small to be significant to USA finances.
What a stupid suggestion, to do that will simply damage us and the USA will not
notice. Gee you are thick!
Rich80105
2025-04-07 22:18:07 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Mon, 7 Apr 2025 19:52:09 -0000 (UTC), Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 7 Apr 2025 07:15:11 -0000 (UTC), Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
https://norightturn.blogspot.com/2025/04/the-ideology-of-grovelling-to-trump.html
What idiocy, the government has no possible way to influence Trump. We need to
wait it out.
A tit for tat imposition of tariffs by New Zealand, possibly only to
apply to imports from the USA) could at least bring some money in. We
are too small to be significant to USA finances.
What a stupid suggestion, to do that will simply damage us and the USA will not
notice. Gee you are thick!
If the USA will not notice, we could do with a few million dollars -
already some people are avoiding buying from the USA where there is an
alternative . . ..
It's A Me
2025-04-07 22:52:04 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 7 Apr 2025 19:52:09 -0000 (UTC), Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 7 Apr 2025 07:15:11 -0000 (UTC), Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
https://norightturn.blogspot.com/2025/04/the-ideology-of-grovelling-to-trump.html
What idiocy, the government has no possible way to influence Trump. We
need to wait it out.
A tit for tat imposition of tariffs by New Zealand, possibly only to
apply to imports from the USA) could at least bring some money in. We
are too small to be significant to USA finances.
What a stupid suggestion, to do that will simply damage us and the USA
will not notice. Gee you are thick!
If the USA will not notice, we could do with a few million dollars -
already some people are avoiding buying from the USA where there is an
alternative . . ..
There is very few products sold in New Zealand that are actually made
in the USA or imported from the USA anyway.

Even if it is an American company (e.g. Apple), the product is actually
made in Asia and shipped to the local authorised distributor /
resellers, or direct to customers.

The only real exception is probably the various car models made in the
USA, including *some* models from Ford, Toyota, Nissan, BMW, and
Mercedes Benz.

Of course, there is a lot of computer software and web-based services
that are USA based, although even then, the actual manufacturing and
servers could be almost anywhere.
Rich80105
2025-04-08 01:21:01 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by It's A Me
Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 7 Apr 2025 19:52:09 -0000 (UTC), Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 7 Apr 2025 07:15:11 -0000 (UTC), Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
https://norightturn.blogspot.com/2025/04/the-ideology-of-grovelling-to-trump.html
What idiocy, the government has no possible way to influence Trump. We
need to wait it out.
A tit for tat imposition of tariffs by New Zealand, possibly only to
apply to imports from the USA) could at least bring some money in. We
are too small to be significant to USA finances.
What a stupid suggestion, to do that will simply damage us and the USA
will not notice. Gee you are thick!
If the USA will not notice, we could do with a few million dollars -
already some people are avoiding buying from the USA where there is an
alternative . . ..
There is very few products sold in New Zealand that are actually made
in the USA or imported from the USA anyway.
Even if it is an American company (e.g. Apple), the product is actually
made in Asia and shipped to the local authorised distributor /
resellers, or direct to customers.
Where it is made does not necessarily coincide with whether it is
considered to be exported by a USA company - tax residency may differ.
If a Dealer in New Zealand imports a Tesla manufactured in China from
a company based in the USA, would a tariff on goods from the USA be
applicable?
Post by It's A Me
The only real exception is probably the various car models made in the
USA, including *some* models from Ford, Toyota, Nissan, BMW, and
Mercedes Benz.
Of course, there is a lot of computer software and web-based services
that are USA based, although even then, the actual manufacturing and
servers could be almost anywhere.
An interesting chart here:
https://tradingeconomics.com/new-zealand/imports/united-states
It's A Me
2025-04-08 03:42:19 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
Post by It's A Me
Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 7 Apr 2025 19:52:09 -0000 (UTC), Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 7 Apr 2025 07:15:11 -0000 (UTC), Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
https://norightturn.blogspot.com/2025/04/the-ideology-of-grovelling-to-trump.html
What idiocy, the government has no possible way to influence Trump. We
need to wait it out.
A tit for tat imposition of tariffs by New Zealand, possibly only to
apply to imports from the USA) could at least bring some money in. We
are too small to be significant to USA finances.
What a stupid suggestion, to do that will simply damage us and the USA
will not notice. Gee you are thick!
If the USA will not notice, we could do with a few million dollars -
already some people are avoiding buying from the USA where there is an
alternative . . ..
There is very few products sold in New Zealand that are actually made
in the USA or imported from the USA anyway.
Even if it is an American company (e.g. Apple), the product is actually
made in Asia and shipped to the local authorised distributor /
resellers, or direct to customers.
Where it is made does not necessarily coincide with whether it is
considered to be exported by a USA company - tax residency may differ.
If a Dealer in New Zealand imports a Tesla manufactured in China from
a company based in the USA, would a tariff on goods from the USA be
applicable?
That's why it becomes stupid and very messy, and companies use
loopholes to get around it.

For example, officially imported Apple product in New Zealand have
nothing to do with the USA. The product parts are made in Asia, the
products are assembled in Asia, Apple Asia then sells them to Apple
Australia, which in turn distributes them to New Zeland authorised
resellers and personal customers.

That is also why, depite the New Zealand government's blinkered
money-grabbing attempts, it is not sensible nor possible to get more
tax out of Apple - there is no "Apple New Zealand" as such. Authorised
resellers offset the wholesale purchase price as a business expense
because the products are ordered from Apple Australia. In turn, Apple
Australia offsets the purchase price as a business expense because the
products are ordered from Apple Asia. Apple Asia pays the appropriate
income tax in which ever country they are based. The same happens in
Europe, where sales are routed through Apple Ireland, so there is no
tax to pay in the UK, France, etc.
Post by Rich80105
Post by It's A Me
The only real exception is probably the various car models made in the
USA, including *some* models from Ford, Toyota, Nissan, BMW, and
Mercedes Benz.
Of course, there is a lot of computer software and web-based services
that are USA based, although even then, the actual manufacturing and
servers could be almost anywhere.
https://tradingeconomics.com/new-zealand/imports/united-states
I was really only referring to the general public themselves having
very little they could avoid buying.

There are of course a lot more US products bought by NZ businesses,
including things like fully built planes as well as many parts /
ingredients used to make a full products here. But businesses tend to
go wherever the cheapest price is, so is the US price rises due to
import tarrifs, then they'll go somewhere cheaper, which isn't really
"avoiding" buying US products either, but an economic necessity to
avoid raising their own product prices.

Looking at that list, you really have to wonder why New Zealand, a
dairy country, imports so much dairy product from America. No doubt
because New Zealand ships much of their dairy products to Europe and
the remainder sold here is over-priced, that means importing dairy
products is probably cheaper. :-\
Rich80105
2025-04-08 07:49:55 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by It's A Me
Post by Rich80105
Post by It's A Me
Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 7 Apr 2025 19:52:09 -0000 (UTC), Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 7 Apr 2025 07:15:11 -0000 (UTC), Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
https://norightturn.blogspot.com/2025/04/the-ideology-of-grovelling-to-trump.html
What idiocy, the government has no possible way to influence Trump. We
need to wait it out.
A tit for tat imposition of tariffs by New Zealand, possibly only to
apply to imports from the USA) could at least bring some money in. We
are too small to be significant to USA finances.
What a stupid suggestion, to do that will simply damage us and the USA
will not notice. Gee you are thick!
If the USA will not notice, we could do with a few million dollars -
already some people are avoiding buying from the USA where there is an
alternative . . ..
There is very few products sold in New Zealand that are actually made
in the USA or imported from the USA anyway.
Even if it is an American company (e.g. Apple), the product is actually
made in Asia and shipped to the local authorised distributor /
resellers, or direct to customers.
Where it is made does not necessarily coincide with whether it is
considered to be exported by a USA company - tax residency may differ.
If a Dealer in New Zealand imports a Tesla manufactured in China from
a company based in the USA, would a tariff on goods from the USA be
applicable?
That's why it becomes stupid and very messy, and companies use
loopholes to get around it.
For example, officially imported Apple product in New Zealand have
nothing to do with the USA. The product parts are made in Asia, the
products are assembled in Asia, Apple Asia then sells them to Apple
Australia, which in turn distributes them to New Zeland authorised
resellers and personal customers.
That is also why, depite the New Zealand government's blinkered
money-grabbing attempts, it is not sensible nor possible to get more
tax out of Apple - there is no "Apple New Zealand" as such. Authorised
resellers offset the wholesale purchase price as a business expense
because the products are ordered from Apple Australia. In turn, Apple
Australia offsets the purchase price as a business expense because the
products are ordered from Apple Asia. Apple Asia pays the appropriate
income tax in which ever country they are based. The same happens in
Europe, where sales are routed through Apple Ireland, so there is no
tax to pay in the UK, France, etc.
There are ways of making sure that the tax payable in New Zealand
represents the profit made here - it is not exact, but in effect it
requires that charges made by say Apple Australia to Apple New Zealand
represent a fair charge for services provided, and not an artificial
charge designed to have profit emerge in the lowest tax regime. The
have been cases in Australia and New Zealand concerning a parking
building company owned in Asia that charged governance and policy
charges sufficient to make the Australian and New Zealand companies
make a zero profit in those countries. Not easy to fix, but it was
fixed. The Australian Banks similarly need to justify charges to NZZ
Subsidiaries.

Ireland is used by a number of countries to ensure tax arises mostly
in that country as they have low company taxes - other countries try
to make sure they get a fair tax on profits made from their country .
. .

Tariffs make all of that more complicated
Post by It's A Me
Post by Rich80105
Post by It's A Me
The only real exception is probably the various car models made in the
USA, including *some* models from Ford, Toyota, Nissan, BMW, and
Mercedes Benz.
Of course, there is a lot of computer software and web-based services
that are USA based, although even then, the actual manufacturing and
servers could be almost anywhere.
https://tradingeconomics.com/new-zealand/imports/united-states
I was really only referring to the general public themselves having
very little they could avoid buying.
There are of course a lot more US products bought by NZ businesses,
including things like fully built planes as well as many parts /
ingredients used to make a full products here. But businesses tend to
go wherever the cheapest price is, so is the US price rises due to
import tarrifs, then they'll go somewhere cheaper, which isn't really
"avoiding" buying US products either, but an economic necessity to
avoid raising their own product prices.
Looking at that list, you really have to wonder why New Zealand, a
dairy country, imports so much dairy product from America. No doubt
because New Zealand ships much of their dairy products to Europe and
the remainder sold here is over-priced, that means importing dairy
products is probably cheaper. :-\
It's A Me
2025-04-09 04:08:44 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
Post by It's A Me
Post by Rich80105
Post by It's A Me
Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 7 Apr 2025 19:52:09 -0000 (UTC), Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 7 Apr 2025 07:15:11 -0000 (UTC), Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
https://norightturn.blogspot.com/2025/04/the-ideology-of-grovelling-to-trump.html
What idiocy, the government has no possible way to influence Trump. We
need to wait it out.
A tit for tat imposition of tariffs by New Zealand, possibly only to
apply to imports from the USA) could at least bring some money in. We
are too small to be significant to USA finances.
What a stupid suggestion, to do that will simply damage us and the USA
will not notice. Gee you are thick!
If the USA will not notice, we could do with a few million dollars -
already some people are avoiding buying from the USA where there is an
alternative . . ..
There is very few products sold in New Zealand that are actually made
in the USA or imported from the USA anyway.
Even if it is an American company (e.g. Apple), the product is actually
made in Asia and shipped to the local authorised distributor /
resellers, or direct to customers.
Where it is made does not necessarily coincide with whether it is
considered to be exported by a USA company - tax residency may differ.
If a Dealer in New Zealand imports a Tesla manufactured in China from
a company based in the USA, would a tariff on goods from the USA be
applicable?
That's why it becomes stupid and very messy, and companies use
loopholes to get around it.
For example, officially imported Apple product in New Zealand have
nothing to do with the USA. The product parts are made in Asia, the
products are assembled in Asia, Apple Asia then sells them to Apple
Australia, which in turn distributes them to New Zeland authorised
resellers and personal customers.
That is also why, depite the New Zealand government's blinkered
money-grabbing attempts, it is not sensible nor possible to get more
tax out of Apple - there is no "Apple New Zealand" as such. Authorised
resellers offset the wholesale purchase price as a business expense
because the products are ordered from Apple Australia. In turn, Apple
Australia offsets the purchase price as a business expense because the
products are ordered from Apple Asia. Apple Asia pays the appropriate
income tax in which ever country they are based. The same happens in
Europe, where sales are routed through Apple Ireland, so there is no
tax to pay in the UK, France, etc.
There are ways of making sure that the tax payable in New Zealand
represents the profit made here - it is not exact, but in effect it
requires that charges made by say Apple Australia to Apple New Zealand
The point is that there is no "Apple New Zealand" to pay any income
tax. All sales of Apple devices in New Zealand are done by third-party
Authorised Resellers buying stock from Apple Australia. The resellers
are already paying the appropriate income tax on the tiny profit they
make from the sales. An iPhone might sell for a retail price of $1000 ,
but that's not what the reseller pays income tax on. The reseller pays
income tax on the *profit* after the expense of buying the stock, and
that profit is only around $100, if they're lucky. This is the problem
that the fools in the government simply don't understand. It's not tax
on $1000, it's tax on $100.

Similarly, all sales via Apple's webstore are also handled by Apple
Australia, so again no actual income in New Zealand that can be taxed.
(GST is paid by Apple Australia bacuse those tax laws were changed a
while back.)

Apple Australia will also be paying the appropriate income tax in
Australia, but that too is tiny, because they buy their stock from
Apple Asia.

Apple Asia too will be paying the appropriate income tax in Asia
(Singapore, from memory), which is where the main tax is paid at a much
lower rate.

It's a bit of a loophole in business income tax laws, but it's similar
to the loophole that almost every rich person (including the likes of
government ministers) uses to get out of paying their own income taxes
by hiding their income in overseas banks and overseas income.
Post by Rich80105
represent a fair charge for services provided, and not an artificial
charge designed to have profit emerge in the lowest tax regime. The
have been cases in Australia and New Zealand concerning a parking
building company owned in Asia that charged governance and policy
charges sufficient to make the Australian and New Zealand companies
make a zero profit in those countries. Not easy to fix, but it was
fixed. The Australian Banks similarly need to justify charges to NZZ
Subsidiaries.
Ireland is used by a number of countries to ensure tax arises mostly
in that country as they have low company taxes - other countries try
to make sure they get a fair tax on profits made from their country.
Every country is already being paid the fair taxes according to their
own business tax laws. The fact that it's there is a loophole created
by rich government ministers for their and their friend's benefit is
not the fault of the companies.
Post by Rich80105
. .
Tariffs make all of that more complicated
Rich80105
2025-04-09 04:44:51 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by It's A Me
Post by Rich80105
Post by It's A Me
Post by Rich80105
Post by It's A Me
Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 7 Apr 2025 19:52:09 -0000 (UTC), Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 7 Apr 2025 07:15:11 -0000 (UTC), Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
https://norightturn.blogspot.com/2025/04/the-ideology-of-grovelling-to-trump.html
What idiocy, the government has no possible way to influence Trump. We
need to wait it out.
A tit for tat imposition of tariffs by New Zealand, possibly only to
apply to imports from the USA) could at least bring some money in. We
are too small to be significant to USA finances.
What a stupid suggestion, to do that will simply damage us and the USA
will not notice. Gee you are thick!
If the USA will not notice, we could do with a few million dollars -
already some people are avoiding buying from the USA where there is an
alternative . . ..
There is very few products sold in New Zealand that are actually made
in the USA or imported from the USA anyway.
Even if it is an American company (e.g. Apple), the product is actually
made in Asia and shipped to the local authorised distributor /
resellers, or direct to customers.
Where it is made does not necessarily coincide with whether it is
considered to be exported by a USA company - tax residency may differ.
If a Dealer in New Zealand imports a Tesla manufactured in China from
a company based in the USA, would a tariff on goods from the USA be
applicable?
That's why it becomes stupid and very messy, and companies use
loopholes to get around it.
For example, officially imported Apple product in New Zealand have
nothing to do with the USA. The product parts are made in Asia, the
products are assembled in Asia, Apple Asia then sells them to Apple
Australia, which in turn distributes them to New Zeland authorised
resellers and personal customers.
That is also why, depite the New Zealand government's blinkered
money-grabbing attempts, it is not sensible nor possible to get more
tax out of Apple - there is no "Apple New Zealand" as such. Authorised
resellers offset the wholesale purchase price as a business expense
because the products are ordered from Apple Australia. In turn, Apple
Australia offsets the purchase price as a business expense because the
products are ordered from Apple Asia. Apple Asia pays the appropriate
income tax in which ever country they are based. The same happens in
Europe, where sales are routed through Apple Ireland, so there is no
tax to pay in the UK, France, etc.
There are ways of making sure that the tax payable in New Zealand
represents the profit made here - it is not exact, but in effect it
requires that charges made by say Apple Australia to Apple New Zealand
The point is that there is no "Apple New Zealand" to pay any income
tax. All sales of Apple devices in New Zealand are done by third-party
Authorised Resellers buying stock from Apple Australia. The resellers
are already paying the appropriate income tax on the tiny profit they
make from the sales. An iPhone might sell for a retail price of $1000 ,
but that's not what the reseller pays income tax on. The reseller pays
income tax on the *profit* after the expense of buying the stock, and
that profit is only around $100, if they're lucky. This is the problem
that the fools in the government simply don't understand. It's not tax
on $1000, it's tax on $100.
Similarly, all sales via Apple's webstore are also handled by Apple
Australia, so again no actual income in New Zealand that can be taxed.
(GST is paid by Apple Australia bacuse those tax laws were changed a
while back.)
Apple Australia will also be paying the appropriate income tax in
Australia, but that too is tiny, because they buy their stock from
Apple Asia.
Apple Asia too will be paying the appropriate income tax in Asia
(Singapore, from memory), which is where the main tax is paid at a much
lower rate.
It's a bit of a loophole in business income tax laws, but it's similar
to the loophole that almost every rich person (including the likes of
government ministers) uses to get out of paying their own income taxes
by hiding their income in overseas banks and overseas income.
If they are genuinely different companies then all is well - if some
are subsidiaries governments will ensure that pricing and charging for
services do not reduce tax payable unreasonably. Of more importance is
whether tariffs are payable if the goods are seen as being imported
from Asia or Australia rather than from the USA - it may be desirable
to restructure some entities, but again tax avoidance authorities will
be watching for such changes.
Post by It's A Me
Post by Rich80105
represent a fair charge for services provided, and not an artificial
charge designed to have profit emerge in the lowest tax regime. The
have been cases in Australia and New Zealand concerning a parking
building company owned in Asia that charged governance and policy
charges sufficient to make the Australian and New Zealand companies
make a zero profit in those countries. Not easy to fix, but it was
fixed. The Australian Banks similarly need to justify charges to NZZ
Subsidiaries.
Ireland is used by a number of countries to ensure tax arises mostly
in that country as they have low company taxes - other countries try
to make sure they get a fair tax on profits made from their country.
Every country is already being paid the fair taxes according to their
own business tax laws. The fact that it's there is a loophole created
by rich government ministers for their and their friend's benefit is
not the fault of the companies.
I was not referring to that sort of situation - do you have any
examples of that happening?
Post by It's A Me
Post by Rich80105
. .
Tariffs make all of that more complicated
It's A Me
2025-04-09 06:51:53 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
Post by It's A Me
Post by Rich80105
Post by It's A Me
Post by Rich80105
Post by It's A Me
Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 7 Apr 2025 19:52:09 -0000 (UTC), Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 7 Apr 2025 07:15:11 -0000 (UTC), Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
https://norightturn.blogspot.com/2025/04/the-ideology-of-grovelling-to-trump.html
What idiocy, the government has no possible way to influence Trump. We
need to wait it out.
A tit for tat imposition of tariffs by New Zealand, possibly only to
apply to imports from the USA) could at least bring some money in. We
are too small to be significant to USA finances.
What a stupid suggestion, to do that will simply damage us and the USA
will not notice. Gee you are thick!
If the USA will not notice, we could do with a few million dollars -
already some people are avoiding buying from the USA where there is an
alternative . . ..
There is very few products sold in New Zealand that are actually made
in the USA or imported from the USA anyway.
Even if it is an American company (e.g. Apple), the product is actually
made in Asia and shipped to the local authorised distributor /
resellers, or direct to customers.
Where it is made does not necessarily coincide with whether it is
considered to be exported by a USA company - tax residency may differ.
If a Dealer in New Zealand imports a Tesla manufactured in China from
a company based in the USA, would a tariff on goods from the USA be
applicable?
That's why it becomes stupid and very messy, and companies use
loopholes to get around it.
For example, officially imported Apple product in New Zealand have
nothing to do with the USA. The product parts are made in Asia, the
products are assembled in Asia, Apple Asia then sells them to Apple
Australia, which in turn distributes them to New Zeland authorised
resellers and personal customers.
That is also why, depite the New Zealand government's blinkered
money-grabbing attempts, it is not sensible nor possible to get more
tax out of Apple - there is no "Apple New Zealand" as such. Authorised
resellers offset the wholesale purchase price as a business expense
because the products are ordered from Apple Australia. In turn, Apple
Australia offsets the purchase price as a business expense because the
products are ordered from Apple Asia. Apple Asia pays the appropriate
income tax in which ever country they are based. The same happens in
Europe, where sales are routed through Apple Ireland, so there is no
tax to pay in the UK, France, etc.
There are ways of making sure that the tax payable in New Zealand
represents the profit made here - it is not exact, but in effect it
requires that charges made by say Apple Australia to Apple New Zealand
The point is that there is no "Apple New Zealand" to pay any income
tax. All sales of Apple devices in New Zealand are done by third-party
Authorised Resellers buying stock from Apple Australia. The resellers
are already paying the appropriate income tax on the tiny profit they
make from the sales. An iPhone might sell for a retail price of $1000 ,
but that's not what the reseller pays income tax on. The reseller pays
income tax on the *profit* after the expense of buying the stock, and
that profit is only around $100, if they're lucky. This is the problem
that the fools in the government simply don't understand. It's not tax
on $1000, it's tax on $100.
Similarly, all sales via Apple's webstore are also handled by Apple
Australia, so again no actual income in New Zealand that can be taxed.
(GST is paid by Apple Australia bacuse those tax laws were changed a
while back.)
Apple Australia will also be paying the appropriate income tax in
Australia, but that too is tiny, because they buy their stock from
Apple Asia.
Apple Asia too will be paying the appropriate income tax in Asia
(Singapore, from memory), which is where the main tax is paid at a much
lower rate.
It's a bit of a loophole in business income tax laws, but it's similar
to the loophole that almost every rich person (including the likes of
government ministers) uses to get out of paying their own income taxes
by hiding their income in overseas banks and overseas income.
If they are genuinely different companies then all is well - if some
are subsidiaries governments will ensure that pricing and charging for
services do not reduce tax payable unreasonably.
I don't know what the legal set-up is. They might be separate companies
or subsidiaries, but in the end they are all owned by the parent
company Apple US.
Post by Rich80105
Of more importance is whether tariffs are payable if the goods are seen
as being imported from Asia or Australia rather than from the USA - it
may be desirable to restructure some entities, but again tax avoidance
authorities will be watching for such changes.
Most of Apple's manufacturing is done in Asia and India, and likely all
of the stock sold in New Zealand by Authorised Resellers is made there
and sold by Apple Asia to Apple Australia. So, technically that would
mean it is not a US product. Legally that is a different question
though.

But I wouldn't be at all surprised if governments around the world
claim some items are US products simply so that the tariff-induced
price rise gives them more sales tax. :-(
It's A Me
2025-04-09 07:55:52 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by It's A Me
Post by Rich80105
Post by It's A Me
Post by Rich80105
Post by It's A Me
Post by Rich80105
Post by It's A Me
Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 7 Apr 2025 19:52:09 -0000 (UTC), Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 7 Apr 2025 07:15:11 -0000 (UTC), Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
https://norightturn.blogspot.com/2025/04/the-ideology-of-grovelling-to-trump.html
What idiocy, the government has no possible way to influence Trump. We
need to wait it out.
A tit for tat imposition of tariffs by New Zealand, possibly only to
apply to imports from the USA) could at least bring some money in. We
are too small to be significant to USA finances.
What a stupid suggestion, to do that will simply damage us and the USA
will not notice. Gee you are thick!
If the USA will not notice, we could do with a few million dollars -
already some people are avoiding buying from the USA where there is an
alternative . . ..
There is very few products sold in New Zealand that are actually made
in the USA or imported from the USA anyway.
Even if it is an American company (e.g. Apple), the product is actually
made in Asia and shipped to the local authorised distributor /
resellers, or direct to customers.
Where it is made does not necessarily coincide with whether it is
considered to be exported by a USA company - tax residency may differ.
If a Dealer in New Zealand imports a Tesla manufactured in China from
a company based in the USA, would a tariff on goods from the USA be
applicable?
That's why it becomes stupid and very messy, and companies use
loopholes to get around it.
For example, officially imported Apple product in New Zealand have
nothing to do with the USA. The product parts are made in Asia, the
products are assembled in Asia, Apple Asia then sells them to Apple
Australia, which in turn distributes them to New Zeland authorised
resellers and personal customers.
That is also why, depite the New Zealand government's blinkered
money-grabbing attempts, it is not sensible nor possible to get more
tax out of Apple - there is no "Apple New Zealand" as such. Authorised
resellers offset the wholesale purchase price as a business expense
because the products are ordered from Apple Australia. In turn, Apple
Australia offsets the purchase price as a business expense because the
products are ordered from Apple Asia. Apple Asia pays the appropriate
income tax in which ever country they are based. The same happens in
Europe, where sales are routed through Apple Ireland, so there is no
tax to pay in the UK, France, etc.
There are ways of making sure that the tax payable in New Zealand
represents the profit made here - it is not exact, but in effect it
requires that charges made by say Apple Australia to Apple New Zealand
The point is that there is no "Apple New Zealand" to pay any income
tax. All sales of Apple devices in New Zealand are done by third-party
Authorised Resellers buying stock from Apple Australia. The resellers
are already paying the appropriate income tax on the tiny profit they
make from the sales. An iPhone might sell for a retail price of $1000 ,
but that's not what the reseller pays income tax on. The reseller pays
income tax on the *profit* after the expense of buying the stock, and
that profit is only around $100, if they're lucky. This is the problem
that the fools in the government simply don't understand. It's not tax
on $1000, it's tax on $100.
Similarly, all sales via Apple's webstore are also handled by Apple
Australia, so again no actual income in New Zealand that can be taxed.
(GST is paid by Apple Australia bacuse those tax laws were changed a
while back.)
Apple Australia will also be paying the appropriate income tax in
Australia, but that too is tiny, because they buy their stock from
Apple Asia.
Apple Asia too will be paying the appropriate income tax in Asia
(Singapore, from memory), which is where the main tax is paid at a much
lower rate.
It's a bit of a loophole in business income tax laws, but it's similar
to the loophole that almost every rich person (including the likes of
government ministers) uses to get out of paying their own income taxes
by hiding their income in overseas banks and overseas income.
If they are genuinely different companies then all is well - if some
are subsidiaries governments will ensure that pricing and charging for
services do not reduce tax payable unreasonably.
I don't know what the legal set-up is. They might be separate companies
or subsidiaries, but in the end they are all owned by the parent
company Apple US.
Of course, Apple was simply an exmaple. Pretty much all of the other
big companies are the same. Even if they have a New Zealand based
subsidiary, it is at best a warehousing and distribution centre, so
makes little to no actual sales profit. The parent company where the
stock is ordered from makes the profit.

If the fools in government try to change the laws to obtain this
supposed income tax money, then it's only going to cause a massive
mess. It's basically the little countries trying to grab their greedy
slice of the pie, at the expense of the countries where that income tax
is currently beng paid since you can't charge a company twice for the
same sale.

It would also mean that if The Warehouse is currently importing
products from the XYZ Widget company in Wyoming, USA, then the
government would have to try to charge XYZ Widget company for New
Zealand income tax, even though they aren't actually making any New
Zealand income!
Rich80105
2025-04-09 10:23:15 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by It's A Me
Post by It's A Me
Post by Rich80105
Post by It's A Me
Post by Rich80105
Post by It's A Me
Post by Rich80105
Post by It's A Me
Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 7 Apr 2025 19:52:09 -0000 (UTC), Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 7 Apr 2025 07:15:11 -0000 (UTC), Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
https://norightturn.blogspot.com/2025/04/the-ideology-of-grovelling-to-trump.html
What idiocy, the government has no possible way to influence Trump. We
need to wait it out.
A tit for tat imposition of tariffs by New Zealand, possibly only to
apply to imports from the USA) could at least bring some money in. We
are too small to be significant to USA finances.
What a stupid suggestion, to do that will simply damage us and the USA
will not notice. Gee you are thick!
If the USA will not notice, we could do with a few million dollars -
already some people are avoiding buying from the USA where there is an
alternative . . ..
There is very few products sold in New Zealand that are actually made
in the USA or imported from the USA anyway.
Even if it is an American company (e.g. Apple), the product is actually
made in Asia and shipped to the local authorised distributor /
resellers, or direct to customers.
Where it is made does not necessarily coincide with whether it is
considered to be exported by a USA company - tax residency may differ.
If a Dealer in New Zealand imports a Tesla manufactured in China from
a company based in the USA, would a tariff on goods from the USA be
applicable?
That's why it becomes stupid and very messy, and companies use
loopholes to get around it.
For example, officially imported Apple product in New Zealand have
nothing to do with the USA. The product parts are made in Asia, the
products are assembled in Asia, Apple Asia then sells them to Apple
Australia, which in turn distributes them to New Zeland authorised
resellers and personal customers.
That is also why, depite the New Zealand government's blinkered
money-grabbing attempts, it is not sensible nor possible to get more
tax out of Apple - there is no "Apple New Zealand" as such. Authorised
resellers offset the wholesale purchase price as a business expense
because the products are ordered from Apple Australia. In turn, Apple
Australia offsets the purchase price as a business expense because the
products are ordered from Apple Asia. Apple Asia pays the appropriate
income tax in which ever country they are based. The same happens in
Europe, where sales are routed through Apple Ireland, so there is no
tax to pay in the UK, France, etc.
There are ways of making sure that the tax payable in New Zealand
represents the profit made here - it is not exact, but in effect it
requires that charges made by say Apple Australia to Apple New Zealand
The point is that there is no "Apple New Zealand" to pay any income
tax. All sales of Apple devices in New Zealand are done by third-party
Authorised Resellers buying stock from Apple Australia. The resellers
are already paying the appropriate income tax on the tiny profit they
make from the sales. An iPhone might sell for a retail price of $1000 ,
but that's not what the reseller pays income tax on. The reseller pays
income tax on the *profit* after the expense of buying the stock, and
that profit is only around $100, if they're lucky. This is the problem
that the fools in the government simply don't understand. It's not tax
on $1000, it's tax on $100.
Similarly, all sales via Apple's webstore are also handled by Apple
Australia, so again no actual income in New Zealand that can be taxed.
(GST is paid by Apple Australia bacuse those tax laws were changed a
while back.)
Apple Australia will also be paying the appropriate income tax in
Australia, but that too is tiny, because they buy their stock from
Apple Asia.
Apple Asia too will be paying the appropriate income tax in Asia
(Singapore, from memory), which is where the main tax is paid at a much
lower rate.
It's a bit of a loophole in business income tax laws, but it's similar
to the loophole that almost every rich person (including the likes of
government ministers) uses to get out of paying their own income taxes
by hiding their income in overseas banks and overseas income.
If they are genuinely different companies then all is well - if some
are subsidiaries governments will ensure that pricing and charging for
services do not reduce tax payable unreasonably.
I don't know what the legal set-up is. They might be separate companies
or subsidiaries, but in the end they are all owned by the parent
company Apple US.
Of course, Apple was simply an exmaple. Pretty much all of the other
big companies are the same. Even if they have a New Zealand based
subsidiary, it is at best a warehousing and distribution centre, so
makes little to no actual sales profit. The parent company where the
stock is ordered from makes the profit.
If the fools in government try to change the laws to obtain this
supposed income tax money, then it's only going to cause a massive
mess. It's basically the little countries trying to grab their greedy
slice of the pie, at the expense of the countries where that income tax
is currently beng paid since you can't charge a company twice for the
same sale.
It would also mean that if The Warehouse is currently importing
products from the XYZ Widget company in Wyoming, USA, then the
government would have to try to charge XYZ Widget company for New
Zealand income tax, even though they aren't actually making any New
Zealand income!
Income tax has little to do with tariffs, if XYZ widget company makes
no profit they would not pay income tax, and our government has
decided not to increase our tariffs (which may not apply to XYZ Widget
products anyway.
It's A Me
2025-04-09 22:44:04 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
Post by It's A Me
Post by It's A Me
Post by Rich80105
Post by It's A Me
Post by Rich80105
Post by It's A Me
Post by Rich80105
Post by It's A Me
Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 7 Apr 2025 19:52:09 -0000 (UTC), Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 7 Apr 2025 07:15:11 -0000 (UTC), Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
https://norightturn.blogspot.com/2025/04/the-ideology-of-grovelling-to-trump.html
What idiocy, the government has no possible way to influence Trump. We
need to wait it out.
A tit for tat imposition of tariffs by New Zealand, possibly only to
apply to imports from the USA) could at least bring some money in. We
are too small to be significant to USA finances.
What a stupid suggestion, to do that will simply damage us and the USA
will not notice. Gee you are thick!
If the USA will not notice, we could do with a few million dollars -
already some people are avoiding buying from the USA where there is an
alternative . . ..
There is very few products sold in New Zealand that are actually made
in the USA or imported from the USA anyway.
Even if it is an American company (e.g. Apple), the product is actually
made in Asia and shipped to the local authorised distributor /
resellers, or direct to customers.
Where it is made does not necessarily coincide with whether it is
considered to be exported by a USA company - tax residency may differ.
If a Dealer in New Zealand imports a Tesla manufactured in China from a
company based in the USA, would a tariff on goods from the USA be
applicable?
That's why it becomes stupid and very messy, and companies use
loopholes to get around it.
For example, officially imported Apple product in New Zealand have
nothing to do with the USA. The product parts are made in Asia, the
products are assembled in Asia, Apple Asia then sells them to Apple
Australia, which in turn distributes them to New Zeland authorised
resellers and personal customers.
That is also why, depite the New Zealand government's blinkered
money-grabbing attempts, it is not sensible nor possible to get more
tax out of Apple - there is no "Apple New Zealand" as such. Authorised
resellers offset the wholesale purchase price as a business expense
because the products are ordered from Apple Australia. In turn, Apple
Australia offsets the purchase price as a business expense because the
products are ordered from Apple Asia. Apple Asia pays the appropriate
income tax in which ever country they are based. The same happens in
Europe, where sales are routed through Apple Ireland, so there is no
tax to pay in the UK, France, etc.
There are ways of making sure that the tax payable in New Zealand
represents the profit made here - it is not exact, but in effect it
requires that charges made by say Apple Australia to Apple New Zealand
The point is that there is no "Apple New Zealand" to pay any income
tax. All sales of Apple devices in New Zealand are done by third-party
Authorised Resellers buying stock from Apple Australia. The resellers
are already paying the appropriate income tax on the tiny profit they
make from the sales. An iPhone might sell for a retail price of $1000 ,
but that's not what the reseller pays income tax on. The reseller pays
income tax on the *profit* after the expense of buying the stock, and
that profit is only around $100, if they're lucky. This is the problem
that the fools in the government simply don't understand. It's not tax
on $1000, it's tax on $100.
Similarly, all sales via Apple's webstore are also handled by Apple
Australia, so again no actual income in New Zealand that can be taxed.
(GST is paid by Apple Australia bacuse those tax laws were changed a
while back.)
Apple Australia will also be paying the appropriate income tax in
Australia, but that too is tiny, because they buy their stock from
Apple Asia.
Apple Asia too will be paying the appropriate income tax in Asia
(Singapore, from memory), which is where the main tax is paid at a much
lower rate.
It's a bit of a loophole in business income tax laws, but it's similar
to the loophole that almost every rich person (including the likes of
government ministers) uses to get out of paying their own income taxes
by hiding their income in overseas banks and overseas income.
If they are genuinely different companies then all is well - if some
are subsidiaries governments will ensure that pricing and charging for
services do not reduce tax payable unreasonably.
I don't know what the legal set-up is. They might be separate companies
or subsidiaries, but in the end they are all owned by the parent
company Apple US.
Of course, Apple was simply an exmaple. Pretty much all of the other
big companies are the same. Even if they have a New Zealand based
subsidiary, it is at best a warehousing and distribution centre, so
makes little to no actual sales profit. The parent company where the
stock is ordered from makes the profit.
If the fools in government try to change the laws to obtain this
supposed income tax money, then it's only going to cause a massive
mess. It's basically the little countries trying to grab their greedy
slice of the pie, at the expense of the countries where that income tax
is currently beng paid since you can't charge a company twice for the
same sale.
It would also mean that if The Warehouse is currently importing
products from the XYZ Widget company in Wyoming, USA, then the
government would have to try to charge XYZ Widget company for New
Zealand income tax, even though they aren't actually making any New
Zealand income!
Income tax has little to do with tariffs, if XYZ widget company makes
no profit they would not pay income tax, and our government has
decided not to increase our tariffs (which may not apply to XYZ Widget
products anyway.
We moved on from tariffs two days ago. :-)

But the tariffs will increase the prices, and the fools in government
will see products selling for more, get more sales, and incorrectly
expect more income tax.
Rich80105
2025-04-10 04:27:37 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by It's A Me
Post by Rich80105
Post by It's A Me
Post by It's A Me
Post by Rich80105
Post by It's A Me
Post by Rich80105
Post by It's A Me
Post by Rich80105
Post by It's A Me
Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 7 Apr 2025 19:52:09 -0000 (UTC), Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 7 Apr 2025 07:15:11 -0000 (UTC), Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
https://norightturn.blogspot.com/2025/04/the-ideology-of-grovelling-to-trump.html
What idiocy, the government has no possible way to influence Trump. We
need to wait it out.
A tit for tat imposition of tariffs by New Zealand, possibly only to
apply to imports from the USA) could at least bring some money in. We
are too small to be significant to USA finances.
What a stupid suggestion, to do that will simply damage us and the USA
will not notice. Gee you are thick!
If the USA will not notice, we could do with a few million dollars -
already some people are avoiding buying from the USA where there is an
alternative . . ..
There is very few products sold in New Zealand that are actually made
in the USA or imported from the USA anyway.
Even if it is an American company (e.g. Apple), the product is actually
made in Asia and shipped to the local authorised distributor /
resellers, or direct to customers.
Where it is made does not necessarily coincide with whether it is
considered to be exported by a USA company - tax residency may differ.
If a Dealer in New Zealand imports a Tesla manufactured in China from a
company based in the USA, would a tariff on goods from the USA be
applicable?
That's why it becomes stupid and very messy, and companies use
loopholes to get around it.
For example, officially imported Apple product in New Zealand have
nothing to do with the USA. The product parts are made in Asia, the
products are assembled in Asia, Apple Asia then sells them to Apple
Australia, which in turn distributes them to New Zeland authorised
resellers and personal customers.
That is also why, depite the New Zealand government's blinkered
money-grabbing attempts, it is not sensible nor possible to get more
tax out of Apple - there is no "Apple New Zealand" as such. Authorised
resellers offset the wholesale purchase price as a business expense
because the products are ordered from Apple Australia. In turn, Apple
Australia offsets the purchase price as a business expense because the
products are ordered from Apple Asia. Apple Asia pays the appropriate
income tax in which ever country they are based. The same happens in
Europe, where sales are routed through Apple Ireland, so there is no
tax to pay in the UK, France, etc.
There are ways of making sure that the tax payable in New Zealand
represents the profit made here - it is not exact, but in effect it
requires that charges made by say Apple Australia to Apple New Zealand
The point is that there is no "Apple New Zealand" to pay any income
tax. All sales of Apple devices in New Zealand are done by third-party
Authorised Resellers buying stock from Apple Australia. The resellers
are already paying the appropriate income tax on the tiny profit they
make from the sales. An iPhone might sell for a retail price of $1000 ,
but that's not what the reseller pays income tax on. The reseller pays
income tax on the *profit* after the expense of buying the stock, and
that profit is only around $100, if they're lucky. This is the problem
that the fools in the government simply don't understand. It's not tax
on $1000, it's tax on $100.
Similarly, all sales via Apple's webstore are also handled by Apple
Australia, so again no actual income in New Zealand that can be taxed.
(GST is paid by Apple Australia bacuse those tax laws were changed a
while back.)
Apple Australia will also be paying the appropriate income tax in
Australia, but that too is tiny, because they buy their stock from
Apple Asia.
Apple Asia too will be paying the appropriate income tax in Asia
(Singapore, from memory), which is where the main tax is paid at a much
lower rate.
It's a bit of a loophole in business income tax laws, but it's similar
to the loophole that almost every rich person (including the likes of
government ministers) uses to get out of paying their own income taxes
by hiding their income in overseas banks and overseas income.
If they are genuinely different companies then all is well - if some
are subsidiaries governments will ensure that pricing and charging for
services do not reduce tax payable unreasonably.
I don't know what the legal set-up is. They might be separate companies
or subsidiaries, but in the end they are all owned by the parent
company Apple US.
Of course, Apple was simply an exmaple. Pretty much all of the other
big companies are the same. Even if they have a New Zealand based
subsidiary, it is at best a warehousing and distribution centre, so
makes little to no actual sales profit. The parent company where the
stock is ordered from makes the profit.
If the fools in government try to change the laws to obtain this
supposed income tax money, then it's only going to cause a massive
mess. It's basically the little countries trying to grab their greedy
slice of the pie, at the expense of the countries where that income tax
is currently beng paid since you can't charge a company twice for the
same sale.
It would also mean that if The Warehouse is currently importing
products from the XYZ Widget company in Wyoming, USA, then the
government would have to try to charge XYZ Widget company for New
Zealand income tax, even though they aren't actually making any New
Zealand income!
Income tax has little to do with tariffs, if XYZ widget company makes
no profit they would not pay income tax, and our government has
decided not to increase our tariffs (which may not apply to XYZ Widget
products anyway.
We moved on from tariffs two days ago. :-)
But the tariffs will increase the prices, and the fools in government
will see products selling for more, get more sales, and incorrectly
expect more income tax.
So we have not moved on from tariffs . . .

Yes we do have fools in government, but the public servants can tell
the difference between tariffs and income tax, and understand that if
USA consumers have to pay a tariff to the USA government on our
exports, that will not increase the money received in New Zealand.
Even Nicola Wilis is likely to understand the simple realities.

Willy Nilly
2025-04-08 23:56:38 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by It's A Me
Looking at that list, you really have to wonder why New Zealand, a
dairy country, imports so much dairy product from America. No doubt
because New Zealand ships much of their dairy products to Europe and
the remainder sold here is over-priced, that means importing dairy
products is probably cheaper. :-\
Yep, same applies to meat, in particular ham. Getting NZ-grown ham in
NZ is crazy hard. Getting NZ-grown ham in NZ *is* possible, if you're
a crazy label-reader as I am. Sometimes they were export-intended and
accordingly labelled, but sold domestically in the end.
It's A Me
2025-04-09 04:10:45 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Willy Nilly
Post by It's A Me
Looking at that list, you really have to wonder why New Zealand, a
dairy country, imports so much dairy product from America. No doubt
because New Zealand ships much of their dairy products to Europe and
the remainder sold here is over-priced, that means importing dairy
products is probably cheaper. :-\
Yep, same applies to meat, in particular ham. Getting NZ-grown ham in
NZ is crazy hard. Getting NZ-grown ham in NZ *is* possible, if you're
a crazy label-reader as I am. Sometimes they were export-intended and
accordingly labelled, but sold domestically in the end.
Crazily, it's almost cheaper to buy New Zealand made butter or meat
from England and ship it back, rather than buying it here in New
Zealand in the first place. :-\
Rich80105
2025-04-09 04:49:27 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by It's A Me
Post by Willy Nilly
Post by It's A Me
Looking at that list, you really have to wonder why New Zealand, a
dairy country, imports so much dairy product from America. No doubt
because New Zealand ships much of their dairy products to Europe and
the remainder sold here is over-priced, that means importing dairy
products is probably cheaper. :-\
Yep, same applies to meat, in particular ham. Getting NZ-grown ham in
NZ is crazy hard. Getting NZ-grown ham in NZ *is* possible, if you're
a crazy label-reader as I am. Sometimes they were export-intended and
accordingly labelled, but sold domestically in the end.
Crazily, it's almost cheaper to buy New Zealand made butter or meat
from England and ship it back, rather than buying it here in New
Zealand in the first place. :-\
While living in the UK some years ago, we noticed that the shelf price
in a supermarket for NZ wine was lower than the same product in New
Zealand. There may be some tax differences, but I gather that
Sainsburys were buying in significant bulk (minimum of a container
load at a time) and were getting lower prices than retailers in New
Zealand buying lower volumes. I am not however saying that New Zealand
prices may include a hefty profit margins along the line . . .
Tony
2025-04-08 01:45:31 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 7 Apr 2025 19:52:09 -0000 (UTC), Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 7 Apr 2025 07:15:11 -0000 (UTC), Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
https://norightturn.blogspot.com/2025/04/the-ideology-of-grovelling-to-trump.html
What idiocy, the government has no possible way to influence Trump. We need to
wait it out.
A tit for tat imposition of tariffs by New Zealand, possibly only to
apply to imports from the USA) could at least bring some money in. We
are too small to be significant to USA finances.
What a stupid suggestion, to do that will simply damage us and the USA will not
notice. Gee you are thick!
If the USA will not notice, we could do with a few million dollars -
already some people are avoiding buying from the USA where there is an
alternative . . ..
There is no upside to us imposing tariffs on the USA and huge risk. Do you
really want us to commit financial suicid. Sorry, silly question, of course you
do.
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