Discussion:
Good work on a sad protest at Waikeria Prison
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Rich80105
2021-01-03 08:28:19 UTC
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A successful resolution for a difficult episode.
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/waikeria-prison-protestors-surrender-after-six-day-standoff

Davis spoke well - he did the right thing in letting the experts
handle it; but he also had the sense to allow access to Rawiri
Waititi, who was able to talk to the leaders of the protest and get
them to come down. Good cooperation between the parties.

The incident has highlighted how badly the prison system had
deteriorated under National - Kelvin Davis made a statement back in
2018 recognising many of the problems; saldy events over the last week
will probably make the situation worse before it gets better.
John Bowes
2021-01-03 10:42:58 UTC
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Permalink
Post by Rich80105
A successful resolution for a difficult episode.
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/waikeria-prison-protestors-surrender-after-six-day-standoff
Davis spoke well - he did the right thing in letting the experts
handle it; but he also had the sense to allow access to Rawiri
Waititi, who was able to talk to the leaders of the protest and get
them to come down. Good cooperation between the parties.
The incident has highlighted how badly the prison system had
deteriorated under National - Kelvin Davis made a statement back in
2018 recognising many of the problems; saldy events over the last week
will probably make the situation worse before it gets better.
Protest? You and your lefty mates in the media need use language properly Rich. Protesters don't burn down buildings and attack prison staff! So remind us what Labour has done to improve things Rich? Oh here you go they are promising a lot while canning yet another of Nationals plans https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/checkpoint/audio/2018649174/new-prison-in-waikeria-will-be-ready-by-2022
Don't you mean how badly the prison system has deteriorated since 1999? Clark did nothing, National found a solution (modified containers) and all Ardern and Davis have done is talk about reducing populations in prison while they skyrocket!
George Black
2021-01-03 19:22:36 UTC
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Post by John Bowes
Protest? You and your lefty mates in the media need use language properly Rich. Protesters don't burn down buildings and attack prison staff! So remind us what Labour has done to improve things Rich? Oh here you go they are promising a lot while canning yet another of Nationals plans https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/checkpoint/audio/2018649174/new-prison-in-waikeria-will-be-ready-by-2022
Don't you mean how badly the prison system has deteriorated since 1999? Clark did nothing, National found a solution (modified containers) and all Ardern and Davis have done is talk about reducing populations in prison while they skyrocket!
Members of the National party turned up as was and is their right and
asked questions.
They were turned away.
The supposed minister in charge went nowhere said and did nothing.
The gang representative did however turn up and 'solved' the riot..
How unsurprising...
Tony
2021-01-03 19:54:56 UTC
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Permalink
Post by Rich80105
A successful resolution for a difficult episode.
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/waikeria-prison-protestors-surrender-after-six-day-standoff
Davis spoke well - he did the right thing in letting the experts
handle it; but he also had the sense to allow access to Rawiri
Waititi, who was able to talk to the leaders of the protest and get
them to come down. Good cooperation between the parties.
The incident has highlighted how badly the prison system had
deteriorated under National - Kelvin Davis made a statement back in
2018 recognising many of the problems; saldy events over the last week
will probably make the situation worse before it gets better.
Another lie. The deterioration is at least 20 years old and you know it.
These people are not protesters they are arsonists and potential murderers. And
you know it.
John Bowes
2021-01-03 21:05:11 UTC
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Permalink
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
A successful resolution for a difficult episode.
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/waikeria-prison-protestors-surrender-after-six-day-standoff
Davis spoke well - he did the right thing in letting the experts
handle it; but he also had the sense to allow access to Rawiri
Waititi, who was able to talk to the leaders of the protest and get
them to come down. Good cooperation between the parties.
The incident has highlighted how badly the prison system had
deteriorated under National - Kelvin Davis made a statement back in
2018 recognising many of the problems; saldy events over the last week
will probably make the situation worse before it gets better.
Another lie. The deterioration is at least 20 years old and you know it.
These people are not protesters they are arsonists and potential murderers. And
you know it.
Why didn't Labour carry on with a plan already in place to build a new prison? The answer is simple: It was another National plan so it had to go! The prison was built in 1911! No wonder living conditions suck. It's needed replacing for fifty years. Facts like this are conveniently ignored by the likes of Rich and our current government. Why? Because it's all Nationals fault.....
Funny how he claims Rawiri was given approval yet Davis makes no mention of this:)
btw you forgot to point out many of the rioters were gang members who'd been expelled from Australia because of their criminal records. Hell the solution is simple: If you want to live in your own squalor and not a tiny cell DON'T BREAK THE LAW! <pause here for Rich to start making claims of racism, genocide and fake news>
Rich80105
2021-01-04 03:03:22 UTC
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On Sun, 03 Jan 2021 13:54:56 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
A successful resolution for a difficult episode.
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/waikeria-prison-protestors-surrender-after-six-day-standoff
Davis spoke well - he did the right thing in letting the experts
handle it; but he also had the sense to allow access to Rawiri
Waititi, who was able to talk to the leaders of the protest and get
them to come down. Good cooperation between the parties.
The incident has highlighted how badly the prison system had
deteriorated under National - Kelvin Davis made a statement back in
2018 recognising many of the problems; sadly events over the last week
will probably make the situation worse before it gets better.
Another lie. The deterioration is at least 20 years old and you know it.
Teh prison has been deteriorating for much longer than 20 years, but
the real problems started with the increase in prison population in
the Key years, the statement by Davis identified the need for change
at Waikeria.
Post by Tony
These people are not protesters they are arsonists and potential murderers. And
you know it.
There you go with your political interpretations again . . .
John Bowes
2021-01-04 03:25:05 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Sun, 03 Jan 2021 13:54:56 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
A successful resolution for a difficult episode.
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/waikeria-prison-protestors-surrender-after-six-day-standoff
Davis spoke well - he did the right thing in letting the experts
handle it; but he also had the sense to allow access to Rawiri
Waititi, who was able to talk to the leaders of the protest and get
them to come down. Good cooperation between the parties.
The incident has highlighted how badly the prison system had
deteriorated under National - Kelvin Davis made a statement back in
2018 recognising many of the problems; sadly events over the last week
will probably make the situation worse before it gets better.
Another lie. The deterioration is at least 20 years old and you know it.
Teh prison has been deteriorating for much longer than 20 years, but
the real problems started with the increase in prison population in
the Key years, the statement by Davis identified the need for change
at Waikeria.
Post by Tony
These people are not protesters they are arsonists and potential murderers. And
you know it.
There you go with your political interpretations again . . .
Many were gang members Rich. You know the guys the government let keep their guns last year and the ones that are pushing New Zealand's gun murders to new heights. Plus they set fire to the prison. I call them arsonists you probably call them innocent victims of NZ's genocide! NOTHING political in Tony's post he left that for a fucking imbecile like you Rich!
Tony
2021-01-04 03:29:18 UTC
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Post by Rich80105
On Sun, 03 Jan 2021 13:54:56 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
A successful resolution for a difficult episode.
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/waikeria-prison-protestors-surrender-after-six-day-standoff
Davis spoke well - he did the right thing in letting the experts
handle it; but he also had the sense to allow access to Rawiri
Waititi, who was able to talk to the leaders of the protest and get
them to come down. Good cooperation between the parties.
The incident has highlighted how badly the prison system had
deteriorated under National - Kelvin Davis made a statement back in
2018 recognising many of the problems; sadly events over the last week
will probably make the situation worse before it gets better.
Another lie. The deterioration is at least 20 years old and you know it.
Teh prison has been deteriorating for much longer than 20 years, but
the real problems started with the increase in prison population in
the Key years, the statement by Davis identified the need for change
at Waikeria.
Nonsense, do provide comparativie data for the last 20 years + so we know where
you get that from. We will wait with bated breath.
It was not a protest and Davis has effectively said so. Do read the news.
"Lightfoot says no complaints had been lodged and Davis does not believe the 16
men rioted for the reasons they stated they were, he told media today."
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
These people are not protesters they are arsonists and potential murderers. And
you know it.
There you go with your political interpretations again . . .
They are arsonists. Nothing to do with politics except from your bias.
Tony
2021-01-04 03:55:07 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Sun, 03 Jan 2021 13:54:56 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
A successful resolution for a difficult episode.
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/waikeria-prison-protestors-surrender-after-six-day-standoff
Davis spoke well - he did the right thing in letting the experts
handle it; but he also had the sense to allow access to Rawiri
Waititi, who was able to talk to the leaders of the protest and get
them to come down. Good cooperation between the parties.
The incident has highlighted how badly the prison system had
deteriorated under National - Kelvin Davis made a statement back in
2018 recognising many of the problems; sadly events over the last week
will probably make the situation worse before it gets better.
Another lie. The deterioration is at least 20 years old and you know it.
Teh prison has been deteriorating for much longer than 20 years, but
the real problems started with the increase in prison population in
the Key years, the statement by Davis identified the need for change
at Waikeria.
Post by Tony
These people are not protesters they are arsonists and potential murderers. And
you know it.
There you go with your political interpretations again . . .
Perhaps you should try to achieve a little balance, Try this as a start.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/123865178/former-inmate-rubbishes-claims-of-poor-conditions-blames-501s-for-role-in-waikeria-prison-unrest
Yes I know he is a convcted criminal but hey, so were the rioters who you
support.
Rich80105
2021-01-05 09:32:56 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Sun, 03 Jan 2021 21:55:07 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sun, 03 Jan 2021 13:54:56 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
A successful resolution for a difficult episode.
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/waikeria-prison-protestors-surrender-after-six-day-standoff
Davis spoke well - he did the right thing in letting the experts
handle it; but he also had the sense to allow access to Rawiri
Waititi, who was able to talk to the leaders of the protest and get
them to come down. Good cooperation between the parties.
The incident has highlighted how badly the prison system had
deteriorated under National - Kelvin Davis made a statement back in
2018 recognising many of the problems; sadly events over the last week
will probably make the situation worse before it gets better.
Another lie. The deterioration is at least 20 years old and you know it.
Teh prison has been deteriorating for much longer than 20 years, but
the real problems started with the increase in prison population in
the Key years, the statement by Davis identified the need for change
at Waikeria.
Post by Tony
These people are not protesters they are arsonists and potential murderers. And
you know it.
There you go with your political interpretations again . . .
Perhaps you should try to achieve a little balance, Try this as a start.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/123865178/former-inmate-rubbishes-claims-of-poor-conditions-blames-501s-for-role-in-waikeria-prison-unrest
Yes I know he is a convcted criminal but hey, so were the rioters who you
support.
I do not support the actions of the prison protestors, and I believe
the Chief Ombudsman when he says that he had identified last August
that the top level of Waikeria was in extremely poor condition. It has
been reported that some of the protestors had been sent to New Zealand
by Australia, but that does not excuse the poor conditions in which
prinoners were being held. Finding one former inmate to give a
contrary view does not change reality, Tony
Tony
2021-01-05 19:36:31 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Sun, 03 Jan 2021 21:55:07 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sun, 03 Jan 2021 13:54:56 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
A successful resolution for a difficult episode.
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/waikeria-prison-protestors-surrender-after-six-day-standoff
Davis spoke well - he did the right thing in letting the experts
handle it; but he also had the sense to allow access to Rawiri
Waititi, who was able to talk to the leaders of the protest and get
them to come down. Good cooperation between the parties.
The incident has highlighted how badly the prison system had
deteriorated under National - Kelvin Davis made a statement back in
2018 recognising many of the problems; sadly events over the last week
will probably make the situation worse before it gets better.
Another lie. The deterioration is at least 20 years old and you know it.
Teh prison has been deteriorating for much longer than 20 years, but
the real problems started with the increase in prison population in
the Key years, the statement by Davis identified the need for change
at Waikeria.
Post by Tony
These people are not protesters they are arsonists and potential murderers. And
you know it.
There you go with your political interpretations again . . .
Perhaps you should try to achieve a little balance, Try this as a start.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/123865178/former-inmate-rubbishes-claims-of-poor-conditions-blames-501s-for-role-in-waikeria-prison-unrest
Yes I know he is a convcted criminal but hey, so were the rioters who you
support.
I do not support the actions of the prison protestors, and I believe
the Chief Ombudsman when he says that he had identified last August
that the top level of Waikeria was in extremely poor condition. It has
been reported that some of the protestors had been sent to New Zealand
by Australia, but that does not excuse the poor conditions in which
prinoners were being held. Finding one former inmate to give a
contrary view does not change reality, Tony
I didn't try to change reality. merely offering you a chnace at truth.
One you have rejected once more.
There are two sides to this story but you decided what was correct well before
you knew anything.
Tony
2021-01-05 19:39:44 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sun, 03 Jan 2021 21:55:07 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sun, 03 Jan 2021 13:54:56 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
A successful resolution for a difficult episode.
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/waikeria-prison-protestors-surrender-after-six-day-standoff
Davis spoke well - he did the right thing in letting the experts
handle it; but he also had the sense to allow access to Rawiri
Waititi, who was able to talk to the leaders of the protest and get
them to come down. Good cooperation between the parties.
The incident has highlighted how badly the prison system had
deteriorated under National - Kelvin Davis made a statement back in
2018 recognising many of the problems; sadly events over the last week
will probably make the situation worse before it gets better.
Another lie. The deterioration is at least 20 years old and you know it.
Teh prison has been deteriorating for much longer than 20 years, but
the real problems started with the increase in prison population in
the Key years, the statement by Davis identified the need for change
at Waikeria.
Post by Tony
These people are not protesters they are arsonists and potential
murderers.
And
you know it.
There you go with your political interpretations again . . .
Perhaps you should try to achieve a little balance, Try this as a start.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/123865178/former-inmate-rubbishes-claims-of-poor-conditions-blames-501s-for-role-in-waikeria-prison-unrest
Yes I know he is a convcted criminal but hey, so were the rioters who you
support.
I do not support the actions of the prison protestors, and I believe
the Chief Ombudsman when he says that he had identified last August
that the top level of Waikeria was in extremely poor condition. It has
been reported that some of the protestors had been sent to New Zealand
by Australia, but that does not excuse the poor conditions in which
prinoners were being held. Finding one former inmate to give a
contrary view does not change reality, Tony
I didn't try to change reality. merely offering you a chnace at truth.
One you have rejected once more.
There are two sides to this story but you decided what was correct well before
you knew anything.
Oh and they are not protesters, they are convicted criminals and they conducted
criminal acts at the prison.
There were other avenues available to them which they declined to take, like
employing a lawyer.
End of debate.
John Bowes
2021-01-05 22:23:10 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sun, 03 Jan 2021 21:55:07 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sun, 03 Jan 2021 13:54:56 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
A successful resolution for a difficult episode.
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/waikeria-prison-protestors-surrender-after-six-day-standoff
Davis spoke well - he did the right thing in letting the experts
handle it; but he also had the sense to allow access to Rawiri
Waititi, who was able to talk to the leaders of the protest and get
them to come down. Good cooperation between the parties.
The incident has highlighted how badly the prison system had
deteriorated under National - Kelvin Davis made a statement back in
2018 recognising many of the problems; sadly events over the last week
will probably make the situation worse before it gets better.
Another lie. The deterioration is at least 20 years old and you know it.
Teh prison has been deteriorating for much longer than 20 years, but
the real problems started with the increase in prison population in
the Key years, the statement by Davis identified the need for change
at Waikeria.
Post by Tony
These people are not protesters they are arsonists and potential
murderers.
And
you know it.
There you go with your political interpretations again . . .
Perhaps you should try to achieve a little balance, Try this as a start.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/123865178/former-inmate-rubbishes-claims-of-poor-conditions-blames-501s-for-role-in-waikeria-prison-unrest
Yes I know he is a convcted criminal but hey, so were the rioters who you
support.
I do not support the actions of the prison protestors, and I believe
the Chief Ombudsman when he says that he had identified last August
that the top level of Waikeria was in extremely poor condition. It has
been reported that some of the protestors had been sent to New Zealand
by Australia, but that does not excuse the poor conditions in which
prinoners were being held. Finding one former inmate to give a
contrary view does not change reality, Tony
I didn't try to change reality. merely offering you a chnace at truth.
One you have rejected once more.
There are two sides to this story but you decided what was correct well before
you knew anything.
Oh and they are not protesters, they are convicted criminals and they conducted
criminal acts at the prison.
There were other avenues available to them which they declined to take, like
employing a lawyer.
End of debate.
The imbecilic Rich is using Labour newspeak Tony. Rioting and arson are now peaceful demonstrations. Failure to meet targets is success beyond their wildest dreams......
Rich80105
2021-01-06 01:29:51 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Tue, 05 Jan 2021 13:39:44 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sun, 03 Jan 2021 21:55:07 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sun, 03 Jan 2021 13:54:56 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
A successful resolution for a difficult episode.
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/waikeria-prison-protestors-surrender-after-six-day-standoff
Davis spoke well - he did the right thing in letting the experts
handle it; but he also had the sense to allow access to Rawiri
Waititi, who was able to talk to the leaders of the protest and get
them to come down. Good cooperation between the parties.
The incident has highlighted how badly the prison system had
deteriorated under National - Kelvin Davis made a statement back in
2018 recognising many of the problems; sadly events over the last week
will probably make the situation worse before it gets better.
Another lie. The deterioration is at least 20 years old and you know it.
Teh prison has been deteriorating for much longer than 20 years, but
the real problems started with the increase in prison population in
the Key years, the statement by Davis identified the need for change
at Waikeria.
Post by Tony
These people are not protesters they are arsonists and potential
murderers.
And
you know it.
There you go with your political interpretations again . . .
Perhaps you should try to achieve a little balance, Try this as a start.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/123865178/former-inmate-rubbishes-claims-of-poor-conditions-blames-501s-for-role-in-waikeria-prison-unrest
Yes I know he is a convcted criminal but hey, so were the rioters who you
support.
I do not support the actions of the prison protestors, and I believe
the Chief Ombudsman when he says that he had identified last August
that the top level of Waikeria was in extremely poor condition. It has
been reported that some of the protestors had been sent to New Zealand
by Australia, but that does not excuse the poor conditions in which
prinoners were being held. Finding one former inmate to give a
contrary view does not change reality, Tony
I didn't try to change reality. merely offering you a chnace at truth.
One you have rejected once more.
There are two sides to this story but you decided what was correct well before
you knew anything.
Oh and they are not protesters, they are convicted criminals and they conducted
criminal acts at the prison.
The three are not mutually exclusive, Tony, it is possible to be a
convicted criminal or bieng held on remand, to be a protestor or not,
and to have conducted criminal acts at the prison or not. What is
clear is that this thread is about a number of people who were
protestors:
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/waikeria-prison-protestors-surrender-after-six-day-standoff

I suspect that some have committed further offences; that is being
assessed, but they were clearly protestors.
Post by Tony
There were other avenues available to them which they declined to take, like
employing a lawyer.
Employing a lawyer has not been mentioned as far as I am aware - do
you have a reference? It has been asserted that they did not complain
through other avenues.
Post by Tony
End of debate.
I had not realised you were debating - you appear to just be asserting
unsupported opinions.
Tony
2021-01-06 01:40:27 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Tue, 05 Jan 2021 13:39:44 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sun, 03 Jan 2021 21:55:07 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sun, 03 Jan 2021 13:54:56 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
A successful resolution for a difficult episode.
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/waikeria-prison-protestors-surrender-after-six-day-standoff
Davis spoke well - he did the right thing in letting the experts
handle it; but he also had the sense to allow access to Rawiri
Waititi, who was able to talk to the leaders of the protest and get
them to come down. Good cooperation between the parties.
The incident has highlighted how badly the prison system had
deteriorated under National - Kelvin Davis made a statement back in
2018 recognising many of the problems; sadly events over the last week
will probably make the situation worse before it gets better.
Another lie. The deterioration is at least 20 years old and you know it.
Teh prison has been deteriorating for much longer than 20 years, but
the real problems started with the increase in prison population in
the Key years, the statement by Davis identified the need for change
at Waikeria.
Post by Tony
These people are not protesters they are arsonists and potential
murderers.
And
you know it.
There you go with your political interpretations again . . .
Perhaps you should try to achieve a little balance, Try this as a start.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/123865178/former-inmate-rubbishes-claims-of-poor-conditions-blames-501s-for-role-in-waikeria-prison-unrest
Yes I know he is a convcted criminal but hey, so were the rioters who you
support.
I do not support the actions of the prison protestors, and I believe
the Chief Ombudsman when he says that he had identified last August
that the top level of Waikeria was in extremely poor condition. It has
been reported that some of the protestors had been sent to New Zealand
by Australia, but that does not excuse the poor conditions in which
prinoners were being held. Finding one former inmate to give a
contrary view does not change reality, Tony
I didn't try to change reality. merely offering you a chnace at truth.
One you have rejected once more.
There are two sides to this story but you decided what was correct well before
you knew anything.
Oh and they are not protesters, they are convicted criminals and they conducted
criminal acts at the prison.
The three are not mutually exclusive, Tony, it is possible to be a
convicted criminal or bieng held on remand, to be a protestor or not,
and to have conducted criminal acts at the prison or not. What is
clear is that this thread is about a number of people who were
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/waikeria-prison-protestors-surrender-after-six-day-standoff
To call them protestors is to call Donald Trump honest.
They obviously broke the law while pretending to merely protest. And you
continue to defend them, reprehensible.
Post by Rich80105
I suspect that some have committed further offences; that is being
assessed, but they were clearly protestors.
No not a valid description. How do you know they sere simply making trouble as
suggested by many including the Minister.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
There were other avenues available to them which they declined to take, like
employing a lawyer.
Employing a lawyer has not been mentioned as far as I am aware - do
Of course not, how could I provide a reference to something they failed to do.
Post by Rich80105
you have a reference?
It has been asserted that they did not complain
through other avenues.
Post by Tony
End of debate.
I had not realised you were debating - you appear to just be asserting
unsupported opinions.
Of course you did not realise that, you never do distinguish between your lies
and other people's honesty.
John Bowes
2021-01-06 01:51:13 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Tue, 05 Jan 2021 13:39:44 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sun, 03 Jan 2021 21:55:07 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sun, 03 Jan 2021 13:54:56 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
A successful resolution for a difficult episode.
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/waikeria-prison-protestors-surrender-after-six-day-standoff
Davis spoke well - he did the right thing in letting the experts
handle it; but he also had the sense to allow access to Rawiri
Waititi, who was able to talk to the leaders of the protest and get
them to come down. Good cooperation between the parties.
The incident has highlighted how badly the prison system had
deteriorated under National - Kelvin Davis made a statement back in
2018 recognising many of the problems; sadly events over the last week
will probably make the situation worse before it gets better.
Another lie. The deterioration is at least 20 years old and you know it.
Teh prison has been deteriorating for much longer than 20 years, but
the real problems started with the increase in prison population in
the Key years, the statement by Davis identified the need for change
at Waikeria.
Post by Tony
These people are not protesters they are arsonists and potential
murderers.
And
you know it.
There you go with your political interpretations again . . .
Perhaps you should try to achieve a little balance, Try this as a start.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/123865178/former-inmate-rubbishes-claims-of-poor-conditions-blames-501s-for-role-in-waikeria-prison-unrest
Yes I know he is a convcted criminal but hey, so were the rioters who you
support.
I do not support the actions of the prison protestors, and I believe
the Chief Ombudsman when he says that he had identified last August
that the top level of Waikeria was in extremely poor condition. It has
been reported that some of the protestors had been sent to New Zealand
by Australia, but that does not excuse the poor conditions in which
prinoners were being held. Finding one former inmate to give a
contrary view does not change reality, Tony
I didn't try to change reality. merely offering you a chnace at truth.
One you have rejected once more.
There are two sides to this story but you decided what was correct well before
you knew anything.
Oh and they are not protesters, they are convicted criminals and they conducted
criminal acts at the prison.
The three are not mutually exclusive, Tony, it is possible to be a
convicted criminal or bieng held on remand, to be a protestor or not,
and to have conducted criminal acts at the prison or not. What is
clear is that this thread is about a number of people who were
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/waikeria-prison-protestors-surrender-after-six-day-standoff
To call them protestors is to call Donald Trump honest.
They obviously broke the law while pretending to merely protest. And you
continue to defend them, reprehensible.
Post by Rich80105
I suspect that some have committed further offences; that is being
assessed, but they were clearly protestors.
No not a valid description. How do you know they sere simply making trouble as
suggested by many including the Minister.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
There were other avenues available to them which they declined to take, like
employing a lawyer.
Employing a lawyer has not been mentioned as far as I am aware - do
Of course not, how could I provide a reference to something they failed to do.
Post by Rich80105
you have a reference?
It has been asserted that they did not complain
through other avenues.
Post by Tony
End of debate.
I had not realised you were debating - you appear to just be asserting
unsupported opinions.
Of course you did not realise that, you never do distinguish between your lies
and other people's honesty.
Rich, just like his glorious leader and her party refuse are always embarrassed by others honesty because like so many imbecilic Marxists and politicians they've never let a fact destroy a good story!
Tony
2021-01-06 02:05:32 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Tue, 05 Jan 2021 13:39:44 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sun, 03 Jan 2021 21:55:07 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sun, 03 Jan 2021 13:54:56 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
A successful resolution for a difficult episode.
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/waikeria-prison-protestors-surrender-after-six-day-standoff
Davis spoke well - he did the right thing in letting the experts
handle it; but he also had the sense to allow access to Rawiri
Waititi, who was able to talk to the leaders of the protest and get
them to come down. Good cooperation between the parties.
The incident has highlighted how badly the prison system had
deteriorated under National - Kelvin Davis made a statement back in
2018 recognising many of the problems; sadly events over the last week
will probably make the situation worse before it gets better.
Another lie. The deterioration is at least 20 years old and you know it.
Teh prison has been deteriorating for much longer than 20 years, but
the real problems started with the increase in prison population in
the Key years, the statement by Davis identified the need for change
at Waikeria.
Post by Tony
These people are not protesters they are arsonists and potential
murderers.
And
you know it.
There you go with your political interpretations again . . .
Perhaps you should try to achieve a little balance, Try this as a start.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/123865178/former-inmate-rubbishes-claims-of-poor-conditions-blames-501s-for-role-in-waikeria-prison-unrest
Yes I know he is a convcted criminal but hey, so were the rioters who you
support.
I do not support the actions of the prison protestors, and I believe
the Chief Ombudsman when he says that he had identified last August
that the top level of Waikeria was in extremely poor condition. It has
been reported that some of the protestors had been sent to New Zealand
by Australia, but that does not excuse the poor conditions in which
prinoners were being held. Finding one former inmate to give a
contrary view does not change reality, Tony
I didn't try to change reality. merely offering you a chnace at truth.
One you have rejected once more.
There are two sides to this story but you decided what was correct well before
you knew anything.
Oh and they are not protesters, they are convicted criminals and they conducted
criminal acts at the prison.
The three are not mutually exclusive, Tony, it is possible to be a
convicted criminal or bieng held on remand, to be a protestor or not,
and to have conducted criminal acts at the prison or not. What is
clear is that this thread is about a number of people who were
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/waikeria-prison-protestors-surrender-after-six-day-standoff
To call them protestors is to call Donald Trump honest.
They obviously broke the law while pretending to merely protest. And you
continue to defend them, reprehensible.
Post by Rich80105
I suspect that some have committed further offences; that is being
assessed, but they were clearly protestors.
No not a valid description. How do you know they sere simply making trouble as
suggested by many including the Minister.
Correction "were not simply making trouble".
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
There were other avenues available to them which they declined to take, like
employing a lawyer.
Employing a lawyer has not been mentioned as far as I am aware - do
Of course not, how could I provide a reference to something they failed to do.
Post by Rich80105
you have a reference?
It has been asserted that they did not complain
through other avenues.
Post by Tony
End of debate.
I had not realised you were debating - you appear to just be asserting
unsupported opinions.
Of course you did not realise that, you never do distinguish between your lies
and other people's honesty.
John Bowes
2021-01-06 03:26:20 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Tue, 05 Jan 2021 13:39:44 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sun, 03 Jan 2021 21:55:07 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sun, 03 Jan 2021 13:54:56 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
A successful resolution for a difficult episode.
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/waikeria-prison-protestors-surrender-after-six-day-standoff
Davis spoke well - he did the right thing in letting the experts
handle it; but he also had the sense to allow access to Rawiri
Waititi, who was able to talk to the leaders of the protest and get
them to come down. Good cooperation between the parties.
The incident has highlighted how badly the prison system had
deteriorated under National - Kelvin Davis made a statement back in
2018 recognising many of the problems; sadly events over the last week
will probably make the situation worse before it gets better.
Another lie. The deterioration is at least 20 years old and you know it.
Teh prison has been deteriorating for much longer than 20 years, but
the real problems started with the increase in prison population in
the Key years, the statement by Davis identified the need for change
at Waikeria.
Post by Tony
These people are not protesters they are arsonists and potential
murderers.
And
you know it.
There you go with your political interpretations again . . .
Perhaps you should try to achieve a little balance, Try this as a start.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/123865178/former-inmate-rubbishes-claims-of-poor-conditions-blames-501s-for-role-in-waikeria-prison-unrest
Yes I know he is a convcted criminal but hey, so were the rioters who you
support.
I do not support the actions of the prison protestors, and I believe
the Chief Ombudsman when he says that he had identified last August
that the top level of Waikeria was in extremely poor condition. It has
been reported that some of the protestors had been sent to New Zealand
by Australia, but that does not excuse the poor conditions in which
prinoners were being held. Finding one former inmate to give a
contrary view does not change reality, Tony
I didn't try to change reality. merely offering you a chnace at truth.
One you have rejected once more.
There are two sides to this story but you decided what was correct well before
you knew anything.
Oh and they are not protesters, they are convicted criminals and they conducted
criminal acts at the prison.
The three are not mutually exclusive, Tony, it is possible to be a
convicted criminal or bieng held on remand, to be a protestor or not,
and to have conducted criminal acts at the prison or not. What is
clear is that this thread is about a number of people who were
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/waikeria-prison-protestors-surrender-after-six-day-standoff
To call them protestors is to call Donald Trump honest.
They obviously broke the law while pretending to merely protest. And you
continue to defend them, reprehensible.
Post by Rich80105
I suspect that some have committed further offences; that is being
assessed, but they were clearly protestors.
No not a valid description. How do you know they sere simply making trouble as
suggested by many including the Minister.
Correction "were not simply making trouble".
More newspeak from Rich and Labour! Now it seems committing arson and attacking prison officers is "just making trouble"! One of the stupider claims from both Rich and Labour!
Labour doesn't have the balls or skills to govern!
George Black
2021-01-06 19:14:55 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by John Bowes
More newspeak from Rich and Labour! Now it seems committing arson and attacking prison officers is "just making trouble"! One of the stupider claims from both Rich and Labour!
Labour doesn't have the balls or skills to govern!
But but but liebor gave them the vote..
How could the gangs treat them so badly after such a bribe ???
And all that 'fight to the death' talk seems to have disappeared from
the media reports..
It was a riot not a protest
John Bowes
2021-01-06 20:37:56 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by George Black
Post by John Bowes
More newspeak from Rich and Labour! Now it seems committing arson and attacking prison officers is "just making trouble"! One of the stupider claims from both Rich and Labour!
Labour doesn't have the balls or skills to govern!
But but but liebor gave them the vote..
How could the gangs treat them so badly after such a bribe ???
And all that 'fight to the death' talk seems to have disappeared from
the media reports..
It was a riot not a protest
Remember Rich is using newspeak.....
Tony
2021-01-07 01:41:53 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by George Black
Post by John Bowes
More newspeak from Rich and Labour! Now it seems committing arson and
attacking prison officers is "just making trouble"! One of the stupider claims
from both Rich and Labour!
Labour doesn't have the balls or skills to govern!
But but but liebor gave them the vote..
How could the gangs treat them so badly after such a bribe ???
And all that 'fight to the death' talk seems to have disappeared from
the media reports..
It was a riot not a protest
Yes it is and only a person with no moral compass would argue otherwise.
Rich80105
2021-01-07 03:38:22 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Wed, 06 Jan 2021 19:41:53 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by George Black
Post by John Bowes
More newspeak from Rich and Labour! Now it seems committing arson and
attacking prison officers is "just making trouble"! One of the stupider claims
from both Rich and Labour!
Labour doesn't have the balls or skills to govern!
But but but liebor gave them the vote..
How could the gangs treat them so badly after such a bribe ???
And all that 'fight to the death' talk seems to have disappeared from
the media reports..
It was a riot not a protest
Yes it is and only a person with no moral compass would argue otherwise.
It is clear that it was a protest for at least most of thoe
participating - that is not a moral issue, merely one of accurate
reporting. What they did was however illegal, and prosecutions are
being considered; whether it was a riot is yet another matter; it has
not been described as such, but it does seem to fit the defintition:
"A riot is a group of 6 or more persons who, acting together, are
using violence against persons or property to the alarm of persons in
the neighbourhood of that group. Every member of a riot is liable to
imprisonment for a term not exceeding 2 years." I am not aware of
anyone arguing that it was not a riot; I suspect prosecutions could
rely on a number of statutes; I'm happy to leave that to the police.
Tony
2021-01-07 04:04:23 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 06 Jan 2021 19:41:53 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by George Black
Post by John Bowes
More newspeak from Rich and Labour! Now it seems committing arson and
attacking prison officers is "just making trouble"! One of the stupider claims
from both Rich and Labour!
Labour doesn't have the balls or skills to govern!
But but but liebor gave them the vote..
How could the gangs treat them so badly after such a bribe ???
And all that 'fight to the death' talk seems to have disappeared from
the media reports..
It was a riot not a protest
Yes it is and only a person with no moral compass would argue otherwise.
It is clear that it was a protest for at least most of thoe
participating - that is not a moral issue, merely one of accurate
reporting. What they did was however illegal, and prosecutions are
being considered; whether it was a riot is yet another matter; it has
"A riot is a group of 6 or more persons who, acting together, are
using violence against persons or property to the alarm of persons in
the neighbourhood of that group. Every member of a riot is liable to
imprisonment for a term not exceeding 2 years." I am not aware of
anyone arguing that it was not a riot; I suspect prosecutions could
rely on a number of statutes; I'm happy to leave that to the police.
As you should be.
It was a riot by any reasonable definition which precludes it being a protest
longer than the first few hours. It may have been a protest at first but that
is definitely questionable, but once it became a riot it was no longer a
protest.
That is clear.
Here is an example
https://beyond.britannica.com/how-does-the-u-s-government-define-the-difference-between-a-protest-vs-riot
It was never really a protest and you know that deep down. Just read the
remarks by this governments Minister and officials - it is all there.
Rich80105
2021-01-07 04:46:34 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Wed, 06 Jan 2021 22:04:23 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 06 Jan 2021 19:41:53 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by George Black
Post by John Bowes
More newspeak from Rich and Labour! Now it seems committing arson and
attacking prison officers is "just making trouble"! One of the stupider claims
from both Rich and Labour!
Labour doesn't have the balls or skills to govern!
But but but liebor gave them the vote..
How could the gangs treat them so badly after such a bribe ???
And all that 'fight to the death' talk seems to have disappeared from
the media reports..
It was a riot not a protest
Yes it is and only a person with no moral compass would argue otherwise.
It is clear that it was a protest for at least most of thoe
participating - that is not a moral issue, merely one of accurate
reporting. What they did was however illegal, and prosecutions are
being considered; whether it was a riot is yet another matter; it has
"A riot is a group of 6 or more persons who, acting together, are
using violence against persons or property to the alarm of persons in
the neighbourhood of that group. Every member of a riot is liable to
imprisonment for a term not exceeding 2 years." I am not aware of
anyone arguing that it was not a riot; I suspect prosecutions could
rely on a number of statutes; I'm happy to leave that to the police.
As you should be.
It was a riot by any reasonable definition which precludes it being a protest
longer than the first few hours. It may have been a protest at first but that
is definitely questionable, but once it became a riot it was no longer a
protest.
That is clear.
Here is an example
https://beyond.britannica.com/how-does-the-u-s-government-define-the-difference-between-a-protest-vs-riot
It was never really a protest and you know that deep down. Just read the
remarks by this governments Minister and officials - it is all there.
You have admitted that it may well have been a protest for the first
few hours. The course of the ''incident'' was very similar to previous
protests in NZ prisons in the past under different governments; it was
wisely described as a protest through the duration of the
""incident"", and as I have previously said there is nothing to
preclude the descrptions of a protest and a riot both being valid at
the same time, and that is consistent with the article that you posted
- which while based on USA law does not appear to be significantly
different from attitudes and common usage of the terms in New Zealand.

I suggest you should also leave it to the police to determine
appropriate charges, if any, and cease nit-picking semantic
discussions where you give arguments that are contrary to the
conclusions you appear to want to make.
Tony
2021-01-07 05:39:42 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 06 Jan 2021 22:04:23 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 06 Jan 2021 19:41:53 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by George Black
Post by John Bowes
More newspeak from Rich and Labour! Now it seems committing arson and
attacking prison officers is "just making trouble"! One of the stupider claims
from both Rich and Labour!
Labour doesn't have the balls or skills to govern!
But but but liebor gave them the vote..
How could the gangs treat them so badly after such a bribe ???
And all that 'fight to the death' talk seems to have disappeared from
the media reports..
It was a riot not a protest
Yes it is and only a person with no moral compass would argue otherwise.
It is clear that it was a protest for at least most of thoe
participating - that is not a moral issue, merely one of accurate
reporting. What they did was however illegal, and prosecutions are
being considered; whether it was a riot is yet another matter; it has
"A riot is a group of 6 or more persons who, acting together, are
using violence against persons or property to the alarm of persons in
the neighbourhood of that group. Every member of a riot is liable to
imprisonment for a term not exceeding 2 years." I am not aware of
anyone arguing that it was not a riot; I suspect prosecutions could
rely on a number of statutes; I'm happy to leave that to the police.
As you should be.
It was a riot by any reasonable definition which precludes it being a protest
longer than the first few hours. It may have been a protest at first but that
is definitely questionable, but once it became a riot it was no longer a
protest.
That is clear.
Here is an example
https://beyond.britannica.com/how-does-the-u-s-government-define-the-difference-between-a-protest-vs-riot
It was never really a protest and you know that deep down. Just read the
remarks by this governments Minister and officials - it is all there.
You have admitted
nothing at all
Post by Rich80105
that it may well have been a protest for the first
few hours. The course of the ''incident'' was very similar to previous
protests in NZ prisons in the past under different governments;
irrelevant.
Post by Rich80105
it was
wisely described as a protest through the duration of the
""incident"",
Wrongly so described, it quickly became a riot and driven by hard criminals.
And you know that is true.
Post by Rich80105
and as I have previously said there is nothing to
preclude the descrptions of a protest and a riot both being valid at
the same time
Incorrect , they are never synonymous.
Post by Rich80105
, and that is consistent with the article that you posted
No it is not.
Post by Rich80105
- which while based on USA law does not appear to be significantly
different from attitudes and common usage of the terms in New Zealand.
I suggest you should also leave it to the police to determine
appropriate charges, if any, and cease nit-picking semantic
discussions where you give arguments that are contrary to the
conclusions you appear to want to make.
What a nonsensical sentence. I am doing none of what you suggest.
You got it wrong.
It was a riot and driven by hardened criminals.
They need to be held to account but to describe it as a protest was always
idiotic.
Time for you to stop defending criminals.
Rich80105
2021-01-07 08:22:23 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Wed, 06 Jan 2021 23:39:42 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 06 Jan 2021 22:04:23 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 06 Jan 2021 19:41:53 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by George Black
Post by John Bowes
More newspeak from Rich and Labour! Now it seems committing arson and
attacking prison officers is "just making trouble"! One of the stupider claims
from both Rich and Labour!
Labour doesn't have the balls or skills to govern!
But but but liebor gave them the vote..
How could the gangs treat them so badly after such a bribe ???
And all that 'fight to the death' talk seems to have disappeared from
the media reports..
It was a riot not a protest
Yes it is and only a person with no moral compass would argue otherwise.
It is clear that it was a protest for at least most of thoe
participating - that is not a moral issue, merely one of accurate
reporting. What they did was however illegal, and prosecutions are
being considered; whether it was a riot is yet another matter; it has
"A riot is a group of 6 or more persons who, acting together, are
using violence against persons or property to the alarm of persons in
the neighbourhood of that group. Every member of a riot is liable to
imprisonment for a term not exceeding 2 years." I am not aware of
anyone arguing that it was not a riot; I suspect prosecutions could
rely on a number of statutes; I'm happy to leave that to the police.
As you should be.
It was a riot by any reasonable definition which precludes it being a protest
longer than the first few hours. It may have been a protest at first but that
is definitely questionable, but once it became a riot it was no longer a
protest.
That is clear.
Here is an example
https://beyond.britannica.com/how-does-the-u-s-government-define-the-difference-between-a-protest-vs-riot
It was never really a protest and you know that deep down. Just read the
remarks by this governments Minister and officials - it is all there.
You have admitted
nothing at all
Post by Rich80105
that it may well have been a protest for the first
few hours. The course of the ''incident'' was very similar to previous
protests in NZ prisons in the past under different governments;
irrelevant.
Post by Rich80105
it was
wisely described as a protest through the duration of the
""incident"",
Wrongly so described, it quickly became a riot and driven by hard criminals.
And you know that is true.
Post by Rich80105
and as I have previously said there is nothing to
preclude the descrptions of a protest and a riot both being valid at
the same time
Incorrect , they are never synonymous.
Post by Rich80105
, and that is consistent with the article that you posted
No it is not.
Post by Rich80105
- which while based on USA law does not appear to be significantly
different from attitudes and common usage of the terms in New Zealand.
I suggest you should also leave it to the police to determine
appropriate charges, if any, and cease nit-picking semantic
discussions where you give arguments that are contrary to the
conclusions you appear to want to make.
What a nonsensical sentence. I am doing none of what you suggest.
You got it wrong.
It was a riot and driven by hardened criminals.
They need to be held to account but to describe it as a protest was always
idiotic.
Again you demonstrate your arrogance, your insistence that you are the
only person that is correct when faced with clear evidence that it has
been consistently referred to as a protest, even while criminal
charges for actions are being considered.
Post by Tony
Time for you to stop defending criminals.
You are a liar, Tony. I have never defended any of those involved
either for their protesting as they chose to act, or for the criminal
actions that they did. Why do you lie when you are losing an argument,
Tony?
Tony
2021-01-07 20:07:54 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 06 Jan 2021 23:39:42 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 06 Jan 2021 22:04:23 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 06 Jan 2021 19:41:53 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by George Black
Post by John Bowes
More newspeak from Rich and Labour! Now it seems committing arson and
attacking prison officers is "just making trouble"! One of the stupider claims
from both Rich and Labour!
Labour doesn't have the balls or skills to govern!
But but but liebor gave them the vote..
How could the gangs treat them so badly after such a bribe ???
And all that 'fight to the death' talk seems to have disappeared from
the media reports..
It was a riot not a protest
Yes it is and only a person with no moral compass would argue otherwise.
It is clear that it was a protest for at least most of thoe
participating - that is not a moral issue, merely one of accurate
reporting. What they did was however illegal, and prosecutions are
being considered; whether it was a riot is yet another matter; it has
"A riot is a group of 6 or more persons who, acting together, are
using violence against persons or property to the alarm of persons in
the neighbourhood of that group. Every member of a riot is liable to
imprisonment for a term not exceeding 2 years." I am not aware of
anyone arguing that it was not a riot; I suspect prosecutions could
rely on a number of statutes; I'm happy to leave that to the police.
As you should be.
It was a riot by any reasonable definition which precludes it being a protest
longer than the first few hours. It may have been a protest at first but that
is definitely questionable, but once it became a riot it was no longer a
protest.
That is clear.
Here is an example
https://beyond.britannica.com/how-does-the-u-s-government-define-the-difference-between-a-protest-vs-riot
It was never really a protest and you know that deep down. Just read the
remarks by this governments Minister and officials - it is all there.
You have admitted
nothing at all
Post by Rich80105
that it may well have been a protest for the first
few hours. The course of the ''incident'' was very similar to previous
protests in NZ prisons in the past under different governments;
irrelevant.
Post by Rich80105
it was
wisely described as a protest through the duration of the
""incident"",
Wrongly so described, it quickly became a riot and driven by hard criminals.
And you know that is true.
Post by Rich80105
and as I have previously said there is nothing to
preclude the descrptions of a protest and a riot both being valid at
the same time
Incorrect , they are never synonymous.
Post by Rich80105
, and that is consistent with the article that you posted
No it is not.
Post by Rich80105
- which while based on USA law does not appear to be significantly
different from attitudes and common usage of the terms in New Zealand.
I suggest you should also leave it to the police to determine
appropriate charges, if any, and cease nit-picking semantic
discussions where you give arguments that are contrary to the
conclusions you appear to want to make.
What a nonsensical sentence. I am doing none of what you suggest.
You got it wrong.
It was a riot and driven by hardened criminals.
They need to be held to account but to describe it as a protest was always
idiotic.
Again you demonstrate your arrogance, your insistence that you are the
only person that is correct when faced with clear evidence that it has
been consistently referred to as a protest, even while criminal
charges for actions are being considered.
Again you are unable to accept that other people have the right to an opinion.
It is you that is arrogant and a dangerous person.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Time for you to stop defending criminals.
You are a liar, Tony. I have never defended any of those involved
either for their protesting as they chose to act, or for the criminal
actions that they did. Why do you lie when you are losing an argument,
Tony?
There you are true to form. The first to be abusive.
I am losing nothing and I am not lying and you know it.
You definitely defended them by insisting it was only a protest.
Something that is pathetically idiotic to suggest let alone insist on.
Rich80105
2021-01-08 01:34:51 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Thu, 07 Jan 2021 14:07:54 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 06 Jan 2021 23:39:42 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 06 Jan 2021 22:04:23 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 06 Jan 2021 19:41:53 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by George Black
Post by John Bowes
More newspeak from Rich and Labour! Now it seems committing arson and
attacking prison officers is "just making trouble"! One of the stupider
claims
from both Rich and Labour!
Labour doesn't have the balls or skills to govern!
But but but liebor gave them the vote..
How could the gangs treat them so badly after such a bribe ???
And all that 'fight to the death' talk seems to have disappeared from
the media reports..
It was a riot not a protest
Yes it is and only a person with no moral compass would argue otherwise.
It is clear that it was a protest for at least most of thoe
participating - that is not a moral issue, merely one of accurate
reporting. What they did was however illegal, and prosecutions are
being considered; whether it was a riot is yet another matter; it has
"A riot is a group of 6 or more persons who, acting together, are
using violence against persons or property to the alarm of persons in
the neighbourhood of that group. Every member of a riot is liable to
imprisonment for a term not exceeding 2 years." I am not aware of
anyone arguing that it was not a riot; I suspect prosecutions could
rely on a number of statutes; I'm happy to leave that to the police.
As you should be.
It was a riot by any reasonable definition which precludes it being a protest
longer than the first few hours. It may have been a protest at first but that
is definitely questionable, but once it became a riot it was no longer a
protest.
That is clear.
Here is an example
https://beyond.britannica.com/how-does-the-u-s-government-define-the-difference-between-a-protest-vs-riot
It was never really a protest and you know that deep down. Just read the
remarks by this governments Minister and officials - it is all there.
You have admitted
nothing at all
Post by Rich80105
that it may well have been a protest for the first
few hours. The course of the ''incident'' was very similar to previous
protests in NZ prisons in the past under different governments;
irrelevant.
Post by Rich80105
it was
wisely described as a protest through the duration of the
""incident"",
Wrongly so described, it quickly became a riot and driven by hard criminals.
And you know that is true.
Post by Rich80105
and as I have previously said there is nothing to
preclude the descrptions of a protest and a riot both being valid at
the same time
Incorrect , they are never synonymous.
Post by Rich80105
, and that is consistent with the article that you posted
No it is not.
Post by Rich80105
- which while based on USA law does not appear to be significantly
different from attitudes and common usage of the terms in New Zealand.
I suggest you should also leave it to the police to determine
appropriate charges, if any, and cease nit-picking semantic
discussions where you give arguments that are contrary to the
conclusions you appear to want to make.
What a nonsensical sentence. I am doing none of what you suggest.
You got it wrong.
It was a riot and driven by hardened criminals.
They need to be held to account but to describe it as a protest was always
idiotic.
Again you demonstrate your arrogance, your insistence that you are the
only person that is correct when faced with clear evidence that it has
been consistently referred to as a protest, even while criminal
charges for actions are being considered.
Again you are unable to accept that other people have the right to an opinion.
It is you that is arrogant and a dangerous person.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Time for you to stop defending criminals.
You are a liar, Tony. I have never defended any of those involved
either for their protesting as they chose to act, or for the criminal
actions that they did. Why do you lie when you are losing an argument,
Tony?
There you are true to form. The first to be abusive.
I am losing nothing and I am not lying and you know it.
You definitely defended them by insisting it was only a protest.
Something that is pathetically idiotic to suggest let alone insist on.
Again you misrepresent what I have said - you are like Trump -
doubling down on your lies.

The initial post I posted in this thread was:
___________________
A successful resolution for a difficult episode.
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/waikeria-prison-protestors-surrender-after-six-day-standoff

Davis spoke well - he did the right thing in letting the experts
handle it; but he also had the sense to allow access to Rawiri
Waititi, who was able to talk to the leaders of the protest and get
them to come down. Good cooperation between the parties.

The incident has highlighted how badly the prison system had
deteriorated under National - Kelvin Davis made a statement back in
2018 recognising many of the problems; saldy events over the last week
will probably make the situation worse before it gets better.
___________________

In praising what Davis said, I was praising this from him:
"“The arson, violence and destruction carried out by these men were
reckless criminal acts that put themselves, other prisoners,
Corrections staff and emergency services in danger,” Davis says.

“No one should glorify the actions of these prisoners. They damaged
property worth hundreds of thousands of dollars and they put their own
lives and the health and safety of staff and other prisoners at risk.

“There is never an excuse for resorting to violence and destruction."

Potential charges for the destruction will be up to police, Davis
says. "
and:
"“These men wanted political attention, and unfortunately those who
waded into the issue in order to generate headlines only helped to
embolden them, extend the duration of the event, and increase the risk
to safety,” he said.

“I made the decision not to bow to the demands of these men nor make
public comment that would have simply opened up political negotiation
with them and achieved nothing to bring the event to a safe
resolution.” "
________________

Nowhere in that article is the word "riot" used. You appear to be
wanting to escalate the actions of the prisoners for no good reason -
unless you wanted comparisons with the more recent incident in
Washington provoked by the current president; who like you is inclined
to be loose with words and dogmatic in holding views that have been
widely discredited and disagreed with by rational politicians from
many parties, including his own. I suggest that channeliing you "inner
Trump" may not be particularly effective at present, Tony.

A disagreement with your unsupported opinions does not constitute
abuse, Tony, merely disagreement, but your lying about what I have
sais is inexcusable. You should apologise.
Tony
2021-01-08 03:54:11 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 07 Jan 2021 14:07:54 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 06 Jan 2021 23:39:42 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 06 Jan 2021 22:04:23 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 06 Jan 2021 19:41:53 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by George Black
Post by John Bowes
More newspeak from Rich and Labour! Now it seems committing arson and
attacking prison officers is "just making trouble"! One of the stupider
claims
from both Rich and Labour!
Labour doesn't have the balls or skills to govern!
But but but liebor gave them the vote..
How could the gangs treat them so badly after such a bribe ???
And all that 'fight to the death' talk seems to have disappeared from
the media reports..
It was a riot not a protest
Yes it is and only a person with no moral compass would argue otherwise.
It is clear that it was a protest for at least most of thoe
participating - that is not a moral issue, merely one of accurate
reporting. What they did was however illegal, and prosecutions are
being considered; whether it was a riot is yet another matter; it has
"A riot is a group of 6 or more persons who, acting together, are
using violence against persons or property to the alarm of persons in
the neighbourhood of that group. Every member of a riot is liable to
imprisonment for a term not exceeding 2 years." I am not aware of
anyone arguing that it was not a riot; I suspect prosecutions could
rely on a number of statutes; I'm happy to leave that to the police.
As you should be.
It was a riot by any reasonable definition which precludes it being a protest
longer than the first few hours. It may have been a protest at first but that
is definitely questionable, but once it became a riot it was no longer a
protest.
That is clear.
Here is an example
https://beyond.britannica.com/how-does-the-u-s-government-define-the-difference-between-a-protest-vs-riot
It was never really a protest and you know that deep down. Just read the
remarks by this governments Minister and officials - it is all there.
You have admitted
nothing at all
Post by Rich80105
that it may well have been a protest for the first
few hours. The course of the ''incident'' was very similar to previous
protests in NZ prisons in the past under different governments;
irrelevant.
Post by Rich80105
it was
wisely described as a protest through the duration of the
""incident"",
Wrongly so described, it quickly became a riot and driven by hard criminals.
And you know that is true.
Post by Rich80105
and as I have previously said there is nothing to
preclude the descrptions of a protest and a riot both being valid at
the same time
Incorrect , they are never synonymous.
Post by Rich80105
, and that is consistent with the article that you posted
No it is not.
Post by Rich80105
- which while based on USA law does not appear to be significantly
different from attitudes and common usage of the terms in New Zealand.
I suggest you should also leave it to the police to determine
appropriate charges, if any, and cease nit-picking semantic
discussions where you give arguments that are contrary to the
conclusions you appear to want to make.
What a nonsensical sentence. I am doing none of what you suggest.
You got it wrong.
It was a riot and driven by hardened criminals.
They need to be held to account but to describe it as a protest was always
idiotic.
Again you demonstrate your arrogance, your insistence that you are the
only person that is correct when faced with clear evidence that it has
been consistently referred to as a protest, even while criminal
charges for actions are being considered.
Again you are unable to accept that other people have the right to an opinion.
It is you that is arrogant and a dangerous person.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Time for you to stop defending criminals.
You are a liar, Tony. I have never defended any of those involved
either for their protesting as they chose to act, or for the criminal
actions that they did. Why do you lie when you are losing an argument,
Tony?
There you are true to form. The first to be abusive.
I am losing nothing and I am not lying and you know it.
You definitely defended them by insisting it was only a protest.
Something that is pathetically idiotic to suggest let alone insist on.
Again you misrepresent what I have said - you are like Trump -
doubling down on your lies.
___________________
A successful resolution for a difficult episode.
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/waikeria-prison-protestors-surrender-after-six-day-standoff
Davis spoke well - he did the right thing in letting the experts
handle it; but he also had the sense to allow access to Rawiri
Waititi, who was able to talk to the leaders of the protest and get
them to come down. Good cooperation between the parties.
The incident has highlighted how badly the prison system had
deteriorated under National - Kelvin Davis made a statement back in
2018 recognising many of the problems; saldy events over the last week
will probably make the situation worse before it gets better.
___________________
"“The arson, violence and destruction carried out by these men were
reckless criminal acts that put themselves, other prisoners,
Corrections staff and emergency services in danger,” Davis says.
“No one should glorify the actions of these prisoners. They damaged
property worth hundreds of thousands of dollars and they put their own
lives and the health and safety of staff and other prisoners at risk.
“There is never an excuse for resorting to violence and destruction."
Potential charges for the destruction will be up to police, Davis
says. "
"“These men wanted political attention, and unfortunately those who
waded into the issue in order to generate headlines only helped to
embolden them, extend the duration of the event, and increase the risk
to safety,” he said.
“I made the decision not to bow to the demands of these men nor make
public comment that would have simply opened up political negotiation
with them and achieved nothing to bring the event to a safe
resolution.” "
________________
Nowhere in that article is the word "riot" used. You appear to be
wanting to escalate the actions of the prisoners for no good reason -
unless you wanted comparisons with the more recent incident in
Washington provoked by the current president; who like you is inclined
to be loose with words and dogmatic in holding views that have been
widely discredited and disagreed with by rational politicians from
many parties, including his own. I suggest that channeliing you "inner
Trump" may not be particularly effective at present, Tony.
A disagreement with your unsupported opinions does not constitute
abuse, Tony, merely disagreement, but your lying about what I have
sais is inexcusable. You should apologise.
Absolutely more lies from you.
You wrote that it was a protest. That is what you wrote.
It was a riot and you are now being very, very silly.
Suggesting that I am like Trump is such a childish taunt, do grow up (oops
sorry much too late).
You said repeatedly that it was a protest, what absolute garbage it was, and
you know it, a riot.
The Minister made a statement that you should read. Just a hint.
You cannot debate without abuse.
Rich80105
2021-01-08 05:31:23 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Thu, 07 Jan 2021 21:54:11 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 07 Jan 2021 14:07:54 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 06 Jan 2021 23:39:42 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 06 Jan 2021 22:04:23 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 06 Jan 2021 19:41:53 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by George Black
Post by John Bowes
More newspeak from Rich and Labour! Now it seems committing arson and
attacking prison officers is "just making trouble"! One of the stupider
claims
from both Rich and Labour!
Labour doesn't have the balls or skills to govern!
But but but liebor gave them the vote..
How could the gangs treat them so badly after such a bribe ???
And all that 'fight to the death' talk seems to have disappeared from
the media reports..
It was a riot not a protest
Yes it is and only a person with no moral compass would argue otherwise.
It is clear that it was a protest for at least most of thoe
participating - that is not a moral issue, merely one of accurate
reporting. What they did was however illegal, and prosecutions are
being considered; whether it was a riot is yet another matter; it has
"A riot is a group of 6 or more persons who, acting together, are
using violence against persons or property to the alarm of persons in
the neighbourhood of that group. Every member of a riot is liable to
imprisonment for a term not exceeding 2 years." I am not aware of
anyone arguing that it was not a riot; I suspect prosecutions could
rely on a number of statutes; I'm happy to leave that to the police.
As you should be.
It was a riot by any reasonable definition which precludes it being a protest
longer than the first few hours. It may have been a protest at first but that
is definitely questionable, but once it became a riot it was no longer a
protest.
That is clear.
Here is an example
https://beyond.britannica.com/how-does-the-u-s-government-define-the-difference-between-a-protest-vs-riot
It was never really a protest and you know that deep down. Just read the
remarks by this governments Minister and officials - it is all there.
You have admitted
nothing at all
Post by Rich80105
that it may well have been a protest for the first
few hours. The course of the ''incident'' was very similar to previous
protests in NZ prisons in the past under different governments;
irrelevant.
Post by Rich80105
it was
wisely described as a protest through the duration of the
""incident"",
Wrongly so described, it quickly became a riot and driven by hard criminals.
And you know that is true.
Post by Rich80105
and as I have previously said there is nothing to
preclude the descrptions of a protest and a riot both being valid at
the same time
Incorrect , they are never synonymous.
Post by Rich80105
, and that is consistent with the article that you posted
No it is not.
Post by Rich80105
- which while based on USA law does not appear to be significantly
different from attitudes and common usage of the terms in New Zealand.
I suggest you should also leave it to the police to determine
appropriate charges, if any, and cease nit-picking semantic
discussions where you give arguments that are contrary to the
conclusions you appear to want to make.
What a nonsensical sentence. I am doing none of what you suggest.
You got it wrong.
It was a riot and driven by hardened criminals.
They need to be held to account but to describe it as a protest was always
idiotic.
Again you demonstrate your arrogance, your insistence that you are the
only person that is correct when faced with clear evidence that it has
been consistently referred to as a protest, even while criminal
charges for actions are being considered.
Again you are unable to accept that other people have the right to an opinion.
It is you that is arrogant and a dangerous person.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Time for you to stop defending criminals.
You are a liar, Tony. I have never defended any of those involved
either for their protesting as they chose to act, or for the criminal
actions that they did. Why do you lie when you are losing an argument,
Tony?
There you are true to form. The first to be abusive.
I am losing nothing and I am not lying and you know it.
You definitely defended them by insisting it was only a protest.
Something that is pathetically idiotic to suggest let alone insist on.
Again you misrepresent what I have said - you are like Trump -
doubling down on your lies.
___________________
A successful resolution for a difficult episode.
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/waikeria-prison-protestors-surrender-after-six-day-standoff
Davis spoke well - he did the right thing in letting the experts
handle it; but he also had the sense to allow access to Rawiri
Waititi, who was able to talk to the leaders of the protest and get
them to come down. Good cooperation between the parties.
The incident has highlighted how badly the prison system had
deteriorated under National - Kelvin Davis made a statement back in
2018 recognising many of the problems; saldy events over the last week
will probably make the situation worse before it gets better.
___________________
"“The arson, violence and destruction carried out by these men were
reckless criminal acts that put themselves, other prisoners,
Corrections staff and emergency services in danger,” Davis says.
“No one should glorify the actions of these prisoners. They damaged
property worth hundreds of thousands of dollars and they put their own
lives and the health and safety of staff and other prisoners at risk.
“There is never an excuse for resorting to violence and destruction."
Potential charges for the destruction will be up to police, Davis
says. "
"“These men wanted political attention, and unfortunately those who
waded into the issue in order to generate headlines only helped to
embolden them, extend the duration of the event, and increase the risk
to safety,” he said.
“I made the decision not to bow to the demands of these men nor make
public comment that would have simply opened up political negotiation
with them and achieved nothing to bring the event to a safe
resolution.” "
________________
Nowhere in that article is the word "riot" used. You appear to be
wanting to escalate the actions of the prisoners for no good reason -
unless you wanted comparisons with the more recent incident in
Washington provoked by the current president; who like you is inclined
to be loose with words and dogmatic in holding views that have been
widely discredited and disagreed with by rational politicians from
many parties, including his own. I suggest that channeliing you "inner
Trump" may not be particularly effective at present, Tony.
A disagreement with your unsupported opinions does not constitute
abuse, Tony, merely disagreement, but your lying about what I have
sais is inexcusable. You should apologise.
Absolutely more lies from you.
You wrote that it was a protest. That is what you wrote.
As have other commentators, Tony.
Who has not referred to it as anything other than a protest?
Post by Tony
It was a riot and you are now being very, very silly.
That appears be yuor opinion, but it does not of course preclude it
also being a protest . . .
Post by Tony
Suggesting that I am like Trump is such a childish taunt, do grow up (oops
sorry much too late).
You said repeatedly that it was a protest, what absolute garbage it was, and
you know it, a riot.
The Minister made a statement that you should read. Just a hint.
You cannot debate without abuse.
Tony
2021-01-08 05:56:36 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 07 Jan 2021 21:54:11 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 07 Jan 2021 14:07:54 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 06 Jan 2021 23:39:42 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 06 Jan 2021 22:04:23 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 06 Jan 2021 19:41:53 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by George Black
Post by John Bowes
More newspeak from Rich and Labour! Now it seems committing arson and
attacking prison officers is "just making trouble"! One of the stupider
claims
from both Rich and Labour!
Labour doesn't have the balls or skills to govern!
But but but liebor gave them the vote..
How could the gangs treat them so badly after such a bribe ???
And all that 'fight to the death' talk seems to have disappeared from
the media reports..
It was a riot not a protest
Yes it is and only a person with no moral compass would argue otherwise.
It is clear that it was a protest for at least most of thoe
participating - that is not a moral issue, merely one of accurate
reporting. What they did was however illegal, and prosecutions are
being considered; whether it was a riot is yet another matter; it has
"A riot is a group of 6 or more persons who, acting together, are
using violence against persons or property to the alarm of persons in
the neighbourhood of that group. Every member of a riot is liable to
imprisonment for a term not exceeding 2 years." I am not aware of
anyone arguing that it was not a riot; I suspect prosecutions could
rely on a number of statutes; I'm happy to leave that to the police.
As you should be.
It was a riot by any reasonable definition which precludes it being a protest
longer than the first few hours. It may have been a protest at first
but
that
is definitely questionable, but once it became a riot it was no longer a
protest.
That is clear.
Here is an example
https://beyond.britannica.com/how-does-the-u-s-government-define-the-difference-between-a-protest-vs-riot
It was never really a protest and you know that deep down. Just read the
remarks by this governments Minister and officials - it is all there.
You have admitted
nothing at all
Post by Rich80105
that it may well have been a protest for the first
few hours. The course of the ''incident'' was very similar to previous
protests in NZ prisons in the past under different governments;
irrelevant.
Post by Rich80105
it was
wisely described as a protest through the duration of the
""incident"",
Wrongly so described, it quickly became a riot and driven by hard criminals.
And you know that is true.
Post by Rich80105
and as I have previously said there is nothing to
preclude the descrptions of a protest and a riot both being valid at
the same time
Incorrect , they are never synonymous.
Post by Rich80105
, and that is consistent with the article that you posted
No it is not.
Post by Rich80105
- which while based on USA law does not appear to be significantly
different from attitudes and common usage of the terms in New Zealand.
I suggest you should also leave it to the police to determine
appropriate charges, if any, and cease nit-picking semantic
discussions where you give arguments that are contrary to the
conclusions you appear to want to make.
What a nonsensical sentence. I am doing none of what you suggest.
You got it wrong.
It was a riot and driven by hardened criminals.
They need to be held to account but to describe it as a protest was always
idiotic.
Again you demonstrate your arrogance, your insistence that you are the
only person that is correct when faced with clear evidence that it has
been consistently referred to as a protest, even while criminal
charges for actions are being considered.
Again you are unable to accept that other people have the right to an opinion.
It is you that is arrogant and a dangerous person.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Time for you to stop defending criminals.
You are a liar, Tony. I have never defended any of those involved
either for their protesting as they chose to act, or for the criminal
actions that they did. Why do you lie when you are losing an argument,
Tony?
There you are true to form. The first to be abusive.
I am losing nothing and I am not lying and you know it.
You definitely defended them by insisting it was only a protest.
Something that is pathetically idiotic to suggest let alone insist on.
Again you misrepresent what I have said - you are like Trump -
doubling down on your lies.
___________________
A successful resolution for a difficult episode.
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/waikeria-prison-protestors-surrender-after-six-day-standoff
Davis spoke well - he did the right thing in letting the experts
handle it; but he also had the sense to allow access to Rawiri
Waititi, who was able to talk to the leaders of the protest and get
them to come down. Good cooperation between the parties.
The incident has highlighted how badly the prison system had
deteriorated under National - Kelvin Davis made a statement back in
2018 recognising many of the problems; saldy events over the last week
will probably make the situation worse before it gets better.
___________________
"“The arson, violence and destruction carried out by these men were
reckless criminal acts that put themselves, other prisoners,
Corrections staff and emergency services in danger,” Davis says.
“No one should glorify the actions of these prisoners. They damaged
property worth hundreds of thousands of dollars and they put their own
lives and the health and safety of staff and other prisoners at risk.
“There is never an excuse for resorting to violence and destruction."
Potential charges for the destruction will be up to police, Davis
says. "
"“These men wanted political attention, and unfortunately those who
waded into the issue in order to generate headlines only helped to
embolden them, extend the duration of the event, and increase the risk
to safety,” he said.
“I made the decision not to bow to the demands of these men nor make
public comment that would have simply opened up political negotiation
with them and achieved nothing to bring the event to a safe
resolution.” "
________________
Nowhere in that article is the word "riot" used. You appear to be
wanting to escalate the actions of the prisoners for no good reason -
unless you wanted comparisons with the more recent incident in
Washington provoked by the current president; who like you is inclined
to be loose with words and dogmatic in holding views that have been
widely discredited and disagreed with by rational politicians from
many parties, including his own. I suggest that channeliing you "inner
Trump" may not be particularly effective at present, Tony.
A disagreement with your unsupported opinions does not constitute
abuse, Tony, merely disagreement, but your lying about what I have
sais is inexcusable. You should apologise.
Absolutely more lies from you.
You wrote that it was a protest. That is what you wrote.
As have other commentators, Tony.
Who has not referred to it as anything other than a protest?
Post by Tony
It was a riot and you are now being very, very silly.
That appears be yuor opinion, but it does not of course preclude it
also being a protest . . Yes it does as I have proven.
Now grow up and stop defending these criminals.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Suggesting that I am like Trump is such a childish taunt, do grow up (oops
sorry much too late).
You said repeatedly that it was a protest, what absolute garbage it was, and
you know it, a riot.
The Minister made a statement that you should read. Just a hint.
You cannot debate without abuse.
John Bowes
2021-01-08 08:55:29 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 07 Jan 2021 21:54:11 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 07 Jan 2021 14:07:54 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 06 Jan 2021 23:39:42 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 06 Jan 2021 22:04:23 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 06 Jan 2021 19:41:53 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by George Black
Post by John Bowes
More newspeak from Rich and Labour! Now it seems committing arson
and
attacking prison officers is "just making trouble"! One of the
stupider
claims
from both Rich and Labour!
Labour doesn't have the balls or skills to govern!
But but but liebor gave them the vote..
How could the gangs treat them so badly after such a bribe ???
And all that 'fight to the death' talk seems to have disappeared from
the media reports..
It was a riot not a protest
Yes it is and only a person with no moral compass would argue otherwise.
It is clear that it was a protest for at least most of thoe
participating - that is not a moral issue, merely one of accurate
reporting. What they did was however illegal, and prosecutions are
being considered; whether it was a riot is yet another matter; it has
"A riot is a group of 6 or more persons who, acting together, are
using violence against persons or property to the alarm of persons in
the neighbourhood of that group. Every member of a riot is liable to
imprisonment for a term not exceeding 2 years." I am not aware of
anyone arguing that it was not a riot; I suspect prosecutions could
rely on a number of statutes; I'm happy to leave that to the police.
As you should be.
It was a riot by any reasonable definition which precludes it being a protest
longer than the first few hours. It may have been a protest at first but that
is definitely questionable, but once it became a riot it was no longer a
protest.
That is clear.
Here is an example
https://beyond.britannica.com/how-does-the-u-s-government-define-the-difference-between-a-protest-vs-riot
It was never really a protest and you know that deep down. Just read the
remarks by this governments Minister and officials - it is all there.
You have admitted
nothing at all
Post by Rich80105
that it may well have been a protest for the first
few hours. The course of the ''incident'' was very similar to previous
protests in NZ prisons in the past under different governments;
irrelevant.
Post by Rich80105
it was
wisely described as a protest through the duration of the
""incident"",
Wrongly so described, it quickly became a riot and driven by hard criminals.
And you know that is true.
Post by Rich80105
and as I have previously said there is nothing to
preclude the descrptions of a protest and a riot both being valid at
the same time
Incorrect , they are never synonymous.
Post by Rich80105
, and that is consistent with the article that you posted
No it is not.
Post by Rich80105
- which while based on USA law does not appear to be significantly
different from attitudes and common usage of the terms in New Zealand.
I suggest you should also leave it to the police to determine
appropriate charges, if any, and cease nit-picking semantic
discussions where you give arguments that are contrary to the
conclusions you appear to want to make.
What a nonsensical sentence. I am doing none of what you suggest.
You got it wrong.
It was a riot and driven by hardened criminals.
They need to be held to account but to describe it as a protest was always
idiotic.
Again you demonstrate your arrogance, your insistence that you are the
only person that is correct when faced with clear evidence that it has
been consistently referred to as a protest, even while criminal
charges for actions are being considered.
Again you are unable to accept that other people have the right to an opinion.
It is you that is arrogant and a dangerous person.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Time for you to stop defending criminals.
You are a liar, Tony. I have never defended any of those involved
either for their protesting as they chose to act, or for the criminal
actions that they did. Why do you lie when you are losing an argument,
Tony?
There you are true to form. The first to be abusive.
I am losing nothing and I am not lying and you know it.
You definitely defended them by insisting it was only a protest.
Something that is pathetically idiotic to suggest let alone insist on.
Again you misrepresent what I have said - you are like Trump -
doubling down on your lies.
___________________
A successful resolution for a difficult episode.
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/waikeria-prison-protestors-surrender-after-six-day-standoff
Davis spoke well - he did the right thing in letting the experts
handle it; but he also had the sense to allow access to Rawiri
Waititi, who was able to talk to the leaders of the protest and get
them to come down. Good cooperation between the parties.
The incident has highlighted how badly the prison system had
deteriorated under National - Kelvin Davis made a statement back in
2018 recognising many of the problems; saldy events over the last week
will probably make the situation worse before it gets better.
___________________
"“The arson, violence and destruction carried out by these men were
reckless criminal acts that put themselves, other prisoners,
Corrections staff and emergency services in danger,” Davis says.
“No one should glorify the actions of these prisoners. They damaged
property worth hundreds of thousands of dollars and they put their own
lives and the health and safety of staff and other prisoners at risk.
“There is never an excuse for resorting to violence and destruction."
Potential charges for the destruction will be up to police, Davis
says. "
"“These men wanted political attention, and unfortunately those who
waded into the issue in order to generate headlines only helped to
embolden them, extend the duration of the event, and increase the risk
to safety,” he said.
“I made the decision not to bow to the demands of these men nor make
public comment that would have simply opened up political negotiation
with them and achieved nothing to bring the event to a safe
resolution.” "
________________
Nowhere in that article is the word "riot" used. You appear to be
wanting to escalate the actions of the prisoners for no good reason -
unless you wanted comparisons with the more recent incident in
Washington provoked by the current president; who like you is inclined
to be loose with words and dogmatic in holding views that have been
widely discredited and disagreed with by rational politicians from
many parties, including his own. I suggest that channeliing you "inner
Trump" may not be particularly effective at present, Tony.
A disagreement with your unsupported opinions does not constitute
abuse, Tony, merely disagreement, but your lying about what I have
sais is inexcusable. You should apologise.
Absolutely more lies from you.
You wrote that it was a protest. That is what you wrote.
As have other commentators, Tony.
Who has not referred to it as anything other than a protest?
Post by Tony
It was a riot and you are now being very, very silly.
That appears be yuor opinion, but it does not of course preclude it
also being a protest . . .
It's either one or the other irrespective of what virtue signalling supporters of criminal acts like you claim Rich!
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300196867/waikeria-prison-riot-violent-inmates-raid-weapons-room-fears-staff-may-be-attacked
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/waikeria-prison-riot-negotiation-with-prisoners-to-surrender-fails-despite-kaumatua-plan/G2Q532ZOFZBDBVC5CPRK2233PA/
https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/news/national/waikeria-prison-rioters-surrender-after-six-day-stand-off/
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/433798/waikeria-prison-riot-significant-damage-after-fires-lit-prisoners-on-roof
https://www.times.co.nz/news/mp-waikeria-prison-riot-must-be-investigated/
There ya go Rich! Even some of your favourite news sources are calling it a riot! FIVE different sources calling it a riot! now appologise to Tony for your stupidity!
Tony
2021-01-08 19:46:30 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by John Bowes
Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 07 Jan 2021 21:54:11 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Who has not referred to it as anything other than a protest?
Post by Tony
It was a riot and you are now being very, very silly.
That appears be yuor opinion, but it does not of course preclude it
also being a protest . . .
It's either one or the other irrespective of what virtue signalling supporters
of criminal acts like you claim Rich!
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300196867/waikeria-prison-riot-violent-inmates-raid-weapons-room-fears-staff-may-be-attacked
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/waikeria-prison-riot-negotiation-with-prisoners-to-surrender-fails-despite-kaumatua-plan/G2Q532ZOFZBDBVC5CPRK2233PA/
https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/news/national/waikeria-prison-rioters-surrender-after-six-day-stand-off/
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/433798/waikeria-prison-riot-significant-damage-after-fires-lit-prisoners-on-roof
https://www.times.co.nz/news/mp-waikeria-prison-riot-must-be-investigated/
There ya go Rich! Even some of your favourite news sources are calling it a
riot! FIVE different sources calling it a riot! now appologise to Tony for your
stupidity!
John you are wasting your time.
Rich is incapable of understanding the URLs you have provided because, like
Trump, he is incapable of integrity or humility.
He is the worst sort of poltical animal, someone who does not care about the
people that politicians pretend to act for.
An absolute disgrace.
Rich80105
2021-01-08 20:54:00 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Fri, 08 Jan 2021 13:46:30 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by John Bowes
Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 07 Jan 2021 21:54:11 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Who has not referred to it as anything other than a protest?
Post by Tony
It was a riot and you are now being very, very silly.
That appears be yuor opinion, but it does not of course preclude it
also being a protest . . .
It's either one or the other irrespective of what virtue signalling supporters
of criminal acts like you claim Rich!
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300196867/waikeria-prison-riot-violent-inmates-raid-weapons-room-fears-staff-may-be-attacked
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/waikeria-prison-riot-negotiation-with-prisoners-to-surrender-fails-despite-kaumatua-plan/G2Q532ZOFZBDBVC5CPRK2233PA/
https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/news/national/waikeria-prison-rioters-surrender-after-six-day-stand-off/
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/433798/waikeria-prison-riot-significant-damage-after-fires-lit-prisoners-on-roof
https://www.times.co.nz/news/mp-waikeria-prison-riot-must-be-investigated/
There ya go Rich! Even some of your favourite news sources are calling it a
riot! FIVE different sources calling it a riot! now appologise to Tony for your
stupidity!
John you are wasting your time.
Rich is incapable of understanding the URLs you have provided because, like
Trump, he is incapable of integrity or humility.
He is the worst sort of poltical animal, someone who does not care about the
people that politicians pretend to act for.
An absolute disgrace.
Interesting that an earlier post suggested reading the statement from
the Minister, but that has been missed from the url's below - so I
looked it up:
https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/prisoner-disorder-event-waikeria-prison-over

I praised the statement on the basis of the url posted in the opening
post of this thread; reading the whole statement it is clear that
Davis carefully worded his remarks so as not to prejudice prosecutions
arising from the disorder. The media, and the National Party through
the likes of Simeon Brown, are not as interested in justice - they
want sensationalism and to sell stories - their inflammatory language
is redolent of Trump and Giuliani - as are the comments of Tony and
John Bowes in this thread.
John Bowes
2021-01-08 21:41:34 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 08 Jan 2021 13:46:30 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by John Bowes
Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 07 Jan 2021 21:54:11 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Who has not referred to it as anything other than a protest?
Post by Tony
It was a riot and you are now being very, very silly.
That appears be yuor opinion, but it does not of course preclude it
also being a protest . . .
It's either one or the other irrespective of what virtue signalling supporters
of criminal acts like you claim Rich!
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300196867/waikeria-prison-riot-violent-inmates-raid-weapons-room-fears-staff-may-be-attacked
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/waikeria-prison-riot-negotiation-with-prisoners-to-surrender-fails-despite-kaumatua-plan/G2Q532ZOFZBDBVC5CPRK2233PA/
https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/news/national/waikeria-prison-rioters-surrender-after-six-day-stand-off/
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/433798/waikeria-prison-riot-significant-damage-after-fires-lit-prisoners-on-roof
https://www.times.co.nz/news/mp-waikeria-prison-riot-must-be-investigated/
There ya go Rich! Even some of your favourite news sources are calling it a
riot! FIVE different sources calling it a riot! now appologise to Tony for your
stupidity!
John you are wasting your time.
Rich is incapable of understanding the URLs you have provided because, like
Trump, he is incapable of integrity or humility.
He is the worst sort of poltical animal, someone who does not care about the
people that politicians pretend to act for.
An absolute disgrace.
Interesting that an earlier post suggested reading the statement from
the Minister, but that has been missed from the url's below - so I
https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/prisoner-disorder-event-waikeria-prison-over
I praised the statement on the basis of the url posted in the opening
post of this thread; reading the whole statement it is clear that
Davis carefully worded his remarks so as not to prejudice prosecutions
arising from the disorder.
Davis made a virtue signalling speech that was designed to make the useless prick look good. I've posted nothing but the truth you imbecilic Marxist fool!
Post by Rich80105
The media, and the National Party through
the likes of Simeon Brown, are not as interested in justice - they
want sensationalism and to sell stories - their inflammatory language
is redolent of Trump and Giuliani - as are the comments of Tony and
John Bowes in this thread.
Bullshit! The Media told the truth! You on the other hand refused to abandon your lie that it was a 'protest' ! Inflamatory language? Don't be a bigger imbecile than you are already Rich!
Tony
2021-01-08 22:17:43 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 08 Jan 2021 13:46:30 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by John Bowes
Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 07 Jan 2021 21:54:11 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Who has not referred to it as anything other than a protest?
Post by Tony
It was a riot and you are now being very, very silly.
That appears be yuor opinion, but it does not of course preclude it
also being a protest . . .
It's either one or the other irrespective of what virtue signalling supporters
of criminal acts like you claim Rich!
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300196867/waikeria-prison-riot-violent-inmates-raid-weapons-room-fears-staff-may-be-attacked
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/waikeria-prison-riot-negotiation-with-prisoners-to-surrender-fails-despite-kaumatua-plan/G2Q532ZOFZBDBVC5CPRK2233PA/
https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/news/national/waikeria-prison-rioters-surrender-after-six-day-stand-off/
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/433798/waikeria-prison-riot-significant-damage-after-fires-lit-prisoners-on-roof
https://www.times.co.nz/news/mp-waikeria-prison-riot-must-be-investigated/
There ya go Rich! Even some of your favourite news sources are calling it a
riot! FIVE different sources calling it a riot! now appologise to Tony for your
stupidity!
John you are wasting your time.
Rich is incapable of understanding the URLs you have provided because, like
Trump, he is incapable of integrity or humility.
He is the worst sort of poltical animal, someone who does not care about the
people that politicians pretend to act for.
An absolute disgrace.
Interesting that an earlier post suggested reading the statement from
the Minister, but that has been missed from the url's below - so I
https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/prisoner-disorder-event-waikeria-prison-over
Wrong one
This is what the minister said
"The majority of the prisoners involved in the Waikeria Prison uprising are
members of the Mongols and Comancheros, Kelvin Davis says.

Speaking after the 16 men who had destroyed the 'top jail' facility and
occupied the prison's rooftop surrendered, the Corrections Minister accused
them of "reckless criminal acts".

"Five of the men are deportees from Australia, with three subject to returning
offender orders because of their criminal convictions," he said in a statement.

"The arson, violence and destruction carried out by these men were reckless
criminal acts that put themselves, other prisoners, Corrections staff and
emergency services in danger.""

That is from here
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/01/waikeria-prison-majority-of-rioters-are-mongols-and-comancheros-gang-members-corrections-minister-kelvin-davis.html

The ministers statement clearly makes it obvious that he did not see it as a
protest.
Obviously it was a riot and a riot cannot also be a protest.
Post by Rich80105
I praised the statement on the basis of the url posted in the opening
post of this thread; reading the whole statement it is clear that
Davis carefully worded his remarks so as not to prejudice prosecutions
arising from the disorder. The media, and the National Party through
the likes of Simeon Brown, are not as interested in justice - they
want sensationalism and to sell stories - their inflammatory language
is redolent of Trump and Giuliani - as are the comments of Tony and
John Bowes in this thread.
Garbage again.
Your selective innuendo and lies are the only inflamatory things in this thread.
You were 100% wrong. It was a riot. And the Minister effectively agreed .
Rich80105
2021-01-08 22:31:11 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Fri, 08 Jan 2021 16:17:43 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 08 Jan 2021 13:46:30 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by John Bowes
Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 07 Jan 2021 21:54:11 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Who has not referred to it as anything other than a protest?
Post by Tony
It was a riot and you are now being very, very silly.
That appears be yuor opinion, but it does not of course preclude it
also being a protest . . .
It's either one or the other irrespective of what virtue signalling supporters
of criminal acts like you claim Rich!
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300196867/waikeria-prison-riot-violent-inmates-raid-weapons-room-fears-staff-may-be-attacked
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/waikeria-prison-riot-negotiation-with-prisoners-to-surrender-fails-despite-kaumatua-plan/G2Q532ZOFZBDBVC5CPRK2233PA/
https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/news/national/waikeria-prison-rioters-surrender-after-six-day-stand-off/
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/433798/waikeria-prison-riot-significant-damage-after-fires-lit-prisoners-on-roof
https://www.times.co.nz/news/mp-waikeria-prison-riot-must-be-investigated/
There ya go Rich! Even some of your favourite news sources are calling it a
riot! FIVE different sources calling it a riot! now appologise to Tony for your
stupidity!
John you are wasting your time.
Rich is incapable of understanding the URLs you have provided because, like
Trump, he is incapable of integrity or humility.
He is the worst sort of poltical animal, someone who does not care about the
people that politicians pretend to act for.
An absolute disgrace.
Interesting that an earlier post suggested reading the statement from
the Minister, but that has been missed from the url's below - so I
https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/prisoner-disorder-event-waikeria-prison-over
Wrong one
This is what the minister said
"The majority of the prisoners involved in the Waikeria Prison uprising are
members of the Mongols and Comancheros, Kelvin Davis says.
Indeed that is in the statement from the Minister that I gave the url
for - Davis did not say the headline added by Newshub.

Are you really that ignorant. Tony?
Post by Tony
Speaking after the 16 men who had destroyed the 'top jail' facility and
occupied the prison's rooftop surrendered, the Corrections Minister accused
them of "reckless criminal acts".
"Five of the men are deportees from Australia, with three subject to returning
offender orders because of their criminal convictions," he said in a statement.
"The arson, violence and destruction carried out by these men were reckless
criminal acts that put themselves, other prisoners, Corrections staff and
emergency services in danger.""
That is from here
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/01/waikeria-prison-majority-of-rioters-are-mongols-and-comancheros-gang-members-corrections-minister-kelvin-davis.html
The ministers statement clearly makes it obvious that he did not see it as a
protest.
No it does not
Post by Tony
Obviously it was a riot and a riot cannot also be a protest.
The Minister did not use the word riot or protest in his statement -
yes you are that ignorant . . .

And you have not provided any evidence that I supported the actions of
the protestors. Just as you can be a liar and an idiot and a dishonest
poster to nz.general, it is possible for a protest to become something
else, including disorder or a riot - just as in Washington, different
people will emphasise different aspects, but few are as silly as you
as to not recognise reality.
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
I praised the statement on the basis of the url posted in the opening
post of this thread; reading the whole statement it is clear that
Davis carefully worded his remarks so as not to prejudice prosecutions
arising from the disorder. The media, and the National Party through
the likes of Simeon Brown, are not as interested in justice - they
want sensationalism and to sell stories - their inflammatory language
is redolent of Trump and Giuliani - as are the comments of Tony and
John Bowes in this thread.
Garbage again.
Your selective innuendo and lies are the only inflamatory things in this thread.
You were 100% wrong. It was a riot. And the Minister effectively agreed .
Tony
2021-01-09 00:56:33 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 08 Jan 2021 16:17:43 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 08 Jan 2021 13:46:30 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by John Bowes
Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 07 Jan 2021 21:54:11 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Who has not referred to it as anything other than a protest?
Post by Tony
It was a riot and you are now being very, very silly.
That appears be yuor opinion, but it does not of course preclude it
also being a protest . . .
It's either one or the other irrespective of what virtue signalling supporters
of criminal acts like you claim Rich!
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300196867/waikeria-prison-riot-violent-inmates-raid-weapons-room-fears-staff-may-be-attacked
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/waikeria-prison-riot-negotiation-with-prisoners-to-surrender-fails-despite-kaumatua-plan/G2Q532ZOFZBDBVC5CPRK2233PA/
https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/news/national/waikeria-prison-rioters-surrender-after-six-day-stand-off/
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/433798/waikeria-prison-riot-significant-damage-after-fires-lit-prisoners-on-roof
https://www.times.co.nz/news/mp-waikeria-prison-riot-must-be-investigated/
There ya go Rich! Even some of your favourite news sources are calling it a
riot! FIVE different sources calling it a riot! now appologise to Tony for your
stupidity!
John you are wasting your time.
Rich is incapable of understanding the URLs you have provided because, like
Trump, he is incapable of integrity or humility.
He is the worst sort of poltical animal, someone who does not care about the
people that politicians pretend to act for.
An absolute disgrace.
Interesting that an earlier post suggested reading the statement from
the Minister, but that has been missed from the url's below - so I
https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/prisoner-disorder-event-waikeria-prison-over
Wrong one
This is what the minister said
"The majority of the prisoners involved in the Waikeria Prison uprising are
members of the Mongols and Comancheros, Kelvin Davis says.
Indeed that is in the statement from the Minister that I gave the url
for - Davis did not say the headline added by Newshub.
Are you really that ignorant. Tony?
No but you are. You refuse to accept that a protest cannot be a riot and the
treverse is of course equally true.
Shame on you for defending the roters by deliberately pretending it was only a
protest. It cannot be both.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Speaking after the 16 men who had destroyed the 'top jail' facility and
occupied the prison's rooftop surrendered, the Corrections Minister accused
them of "reckless criminal acts".
"Five of the men are deportees from Australia, with three subject to returning
offender orders because of their criminal convictions," he said in a statement.
"The arson, violence and destruction carried out by these men were reckless
criminal acts that put themselves, other prisoners, Corrections staff and
emergency services in danger.""
That is from here
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/01/waikeria-prison-majority-of-rioters-are-mongols-and-comancheros-gang-members-corrections-minister-kelvin-davis.html
The ministers statement clearly makes it obvious that he did not see it as a
protest.
No it does not
Yes it does but only to those that understand English. The minister's statemnt
clearly indicated the activities were severely worse than a protest, riot is
correct. Protest is wrong.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Obviously it was a riot and a riot cannot also be a protest.
The Minister did not use the word riot or protest in his statement -
Irrelevant.
Post by Rich80105
yes you are that ignorant . . .
More abuse from Rich the premier abuser in this newsgroup.
Post by Rich80105
And you have not provided any evidence that I supported the actions of
the protestors. Just as you can be a liar and an idiot and a dishonest
poster to nz.general, it is possible for a protest to become something
else, including disorder or a riot - just as in Washington, different
people will emphasise different aspects, but few are as silly as you
as to not recognise reality.
Wrong Rich just wrong and more abuse from Rich the predominant abuser in this
newsgroup.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
I praised the statement on the basis of the url posted in the opening
post of this thread; reading the whole statement it is clear that
Davis carefully worded his remarks so as not to prejudice prosecutions
arising from the disorder. The media, and the National Party through
the likes of Simeon Brown, are not as interested in justice - they
want sensationalism and to sell stories - their inflammatory language
is redolent of Trump and Giuliani - as are the comments of Tony and
John Bowes in this thread.
Garbage again.
Your selective innuendo and lies are the only inflamatory things in this thread.
You were 100% wrong. It was a riot. And the Minister effectively agreed .
You were 100% wrong. It was a riot. And the Minister effectively agreed . (In
case you became enraged before reading that far.
Rich80105
2021-01-09 03:30:46 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Fri, 08 Jan 2021 18:56:33 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 08 Jan 2021 16:17:43 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 08 Jan 2021 13:46:30 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by John Bowes
Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 07 Jan 2021 21:54:11 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Who has not referred to it as anything other than a protest?
Post by Tony
It was a riot and you are now being very, very silly.
That appears be yuor opinion, but it does not of course preclude it
also being a protest . . .
It's either one or the other irrespective of what virtue signalling supporters
of criminal acts like you claim Rich!
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300196867/waikeria-prison-riot-violent-inmates-raid-weapons-room-fears-staff-may-be-attacked
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/waikeria-prison-riot-negotiation-with-prisoners-to-surrender-fails-despite-kaumatua-plan/G2Q532ZOFZBDBVC5CPRK2233PA/
https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/news/national/waikeria-prison-rioters-surrender-after-six-day-stand-off/
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/433798/waikeria-prison-riot-significant-damage-after-fires-lit-prisoners-on-roof
https://www.times.co.nz/news/mp-waikeria-prison-riot-must-be-investigated/
There ya go Rich! Even some of your favourite news sources are calling it a
riot! FIVE different sources calling it a riot! now appologise to Tony for your
stupidity!
John you are wasting your time.
Rich is incapable of understanding the URLs you have provided because, like
Trump, he is incapable of integrity or humility.
He is the worst sort of poltical animal, someone who does not care about the
people that politicians pretend to act for.
An absolute disgrace.
Interesting that an earlier post suggested reading the statement from
the Minister, but that has been missed from the url's below - so I
https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/prisoner-disorder-event-waikeria-prison-over
Wrong one
This is what the minister said
"The majority of the prisoners involved in the Waikeria Prison uprising are
members of the Mongols and Comancheros, Kelvin Davis says.
Indeed that is in the statement from the Minister that I gave the url
for - Davis did not say the headline added by Newshub.
Are you really that ignorant. Tony?
No but you are. You refuse to accept that a protest cannot be a riot and the
treverse is of course equally true.
Shame on you for defending the roters by deliberately pretending it was only a
protest. It cannot be both.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Speaking after the 16 men who had destroyed the 'top jail' facility and
occupied the prison's rooftop surrendered, the Corrections Minister accused
them of "reckless criminal acts".
"Five of the men are deportees from Australia, with three subject to returning
offender orders because of their criminal convictions," he said in a statement.
"The arson, violence and destruction carried out by these men were reckless
criminal acts that put themselves, other prisoners, Corrections staff and
emergency services in danger.""
That is from here
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/01/waikeria-prison-majority-of-rioters-are-mongols-and-comancheros-gang-members-corrections-minister-kelvin-davis.html
The ministers statement clearly makes it obvious that he did not see it as a
protest.
No it does not
Yes it does but only to those that understand English. The minister's statemnt
clearly indicated the activities were severely worse than a protest, riot is
correct. Protest is wrong.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Obviously it was a riot and a riot cannot also be a protest.
The Minister did not use the word riot or protest in his statement -
Irrelevant.
It is no less relevant than the opinion of any other politician.
Certainly more relvant than your unsupported opinion
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
yes you are that ignorant . . .
More abuse from Rich the premier abuser in this newsgroup.
Post by Rich80105
And you have not provided any evidence that I supported the actions of
the protestors. Just as you can be a liar and an idiot and a dishonest
poster to nz.general, it is possible for a protest to become something
else, including disorder or a riot - just as in Washington, different
people will emphasise different aspects, but few are as silly as you
as to not recognise reality.
Wrong Rich just wrong and more abuse from Rich the predominant abuser in this
newsgroup.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
I praised the statement on the basis of the url posted in the opening
post of this thread; reading the whole statement it is clear that
Davis carefully worded his remarks so as not to prejudice prosecutions
arising from the disorder. The media, and the National Party through
the likes of Simeon Brown, are not as interested in justice - they
want sensationalism and to sell stories - their inflammatory language
is redolent of Trump and Giuliani - as are the comments of Tony and
John Bowes in this thread.
Garbage again.
You have not posted anything else in this thread, Tony.
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Your selective innuendo and lies are the only inflamatory things in this thread.
You were 100% wrong. It was a riot. And the Minister effectively agreed .
No he did not - he called it a prisoner disorder event.
Post by Tony
You were 100% wrong. It was a riot. And the Minister effectively agreed . (In
case you became enraged before reading that far.
Repeating your lie does not make it true.
You are a liar and abuser of other posters, Tony.
Tony
2021-01-09 04:42:53 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 08 Jan 2021 18:56:33 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 08 Jan 2021 16:17:43 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 08 Jan 2021 13:46:30 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by John Bowes
Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 07 Jan 2021 21:54:11 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Who has not referred to it as anything other than a protest?
Post by Tony
It was a riot and you are now being very, very silly.
That appears be yuor opinion, but it does not of course preclude it
also being a protest . . .
It's either one or the other irrespective of what virtue signalling supporters
of criminal acts like you claim Rich!
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300196867/waikeria-prison-riot-violent-inmates-raid-weapons-room-fears-staff-may-be-attacked
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/waikeria-prison-riot-negotiation-with-prisoners-to-surrender-fails-despite-kaumatua-plan/G2Q532ZOFZBDBVC5CPRK2233PA/
https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/news/national/waikeria-prison-rioters-surrender-after-six-day-stand-off/
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/433798/waikeria-prison-riot-significant-damage-after-fires-lit-prisoners-on-roof
https://www.times.co.nz/news/mp-waikeria-prison-riot-must-be-investigated/
There ya go Rich! Even some of your favourite news sources are calling
it
a
riot! FIVE different sources calling it a riot! now appologise to Tony
for
your
stupidity!
John you are wasting your time.
Rich is incapable of understanding the URLs you have provided because, like
Trump, he is incapable of integrity or humility.
He is the worst sort of poltical animal, someone who does not care about the
people that politicians pretend to act for.
An absolute disgrace.
Interesting that an earlier post suggested reading the statement from
the Minister, but that has been missed from the url's below - so I
https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/prisoner-disorder-event-waikeria-prison-over
Wrong one
This is what the minister said
"The majority of the prisoners involved in the Waikeria Prison uprising are
members of the Mongols and Comancheros, Kelvin Davis says.
Indeed that is in the statement from the Minister that I gave the url
for - Davis did not say the headline added by Newshub.
Are you really that ignorant. Tony?
No but you are. You refuse to accept that a protest cannot be a riot and the
treverse is of course equally true.
Shame on you for defending the roters by deliberately pretending it was only a
protest. It cannot be both.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Speaking after the 16 men who had destroyed the 'top jail' facility and
occupied the prison's rooftop surrendered, the Corrections Minister accused
them of "reckless criminal acts".
"Five of the men are deportees from Australia, with three subject to returning
offender orders because of their criminal convictions," he said in a statement.
"The arson, violence and destruction carried out by these men were reckless
criminal acts that put themselves, other prisoners, Corrections staff and
emergency services in danger.""
That is from here
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/01/waikeria-prison-majority-of-rioters-are-mongols-and-comancheros-gang-members-corrections-minister-kelvin-davis.html
The ministers statement clearly makes it obvious that he did not see it as a
protest.
No it does not
Yes it does but only to those that understand English. The minister's statemnt
clearly indicated the activities were severely worse than a protest, riot is
correct. Protest is wrong.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Obviously it was a riot and a riot cannot also be a protest.
The Minister did not use the word riot or protest in his statement -
Irrelevant.
It is no less relevant than the opinion of any other politician.
Certainly more relvant than your unsupported opinion
No you abuse, you lie. I have done neither in this thread.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
yes you are that ignorant . . .
More abuse from Rich the premier abuser in this newsgroup.
Post by Rich80105
And you have not provided any evidence that I supported the actions of
the protestors. Just as you can be a liar and an idiot and a dishonest
poster to nz.general, it is possible for a protest to become something
else, including disorder or a riot - just as in Washington, different
people will emphasise different aspects, but few are as silly as you
as to not recognise reality.
Wrong Rich just wrong and more abuse from Rich the predominant abuser in this
newsgroup.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
I praised the statement on the basis of the url posted in the opening
post of this thread; reading the whole statement it is clear that
Davis carefully worded his remarks so as not to prejudice prosecutions
arising from the disorder. The media, and the National Party through
the likes of Simeon Brown, are not as interested in justice - they
want sensationalism and to sell stories - their inflammatory language
is redolent of Trump and Giuliani - as are the comments of Tony and
John Bowes in this thread.
Garbage again.
Abuse removed.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Your selective innuendo and lies are the only inflamatory things in this thread.
You were 100% wrong. It was a riot. And the Minister effectively agreed .
No he did not - he called it a prisoner disorder event.
Post by Tony
You were 100% wrong. It was a riot. And the Minister effectively agreed . (In
case you became enraged before reading that far.
Rich you are the abuser and liar. And now you have managed to invite your
master into your silly little tag team.
Good luck to you both, you will both certainly need it.
John Bowes
2021-01-08 08:45:38 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 07 Jan 2021 14:07:54 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 06 Jan 2021 23:39:42 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 06 Jan 2021 22:04:23 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 06 Jan 2021 19:41:53 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by George Black
Post by John Bowes
More newspeak from Rich and Labour! Now it seems committing arson and
attacking prison officers is "just making trouble"! One of the stupider
claims
from both Rich and Labour!
Labour doesn't have the balls or skills to govern!
But but but liebor gave them the vote..
How could the gangs treat them so badly after such a bribe ???
And all that 'fight to the death' talk seems to have disappeared from
the media reports..
It was a riot not a protest
Yes it is and only a person with no moral compass would argue otherwise.
It is clear that it was a protest for at least most of thoe
participating - that is not a moral issue, merely one of accurate
reporting. What they did was however illegal, and prosecutions are
being considered; whether it was a riot is yet another matter; it has
"A riot is a group of 6 or more persons who, acting together, are
using violence against persons or property to the alarm of persons in
the neighbourhood of that group. Every member of a riot is liable to
imprisonment for a term not exceeding 2 years." I am not aware of
anyone arguing that it was not a riot; I suspect prosecutions could
rely on a number of statutes; I'm happy to leave that to the police.
As you should be.
It was a riot by any reasonable definition which precludes it being a protest
longer than the first few hours. It may have been a protest at first but that
is definitely questionable, but once it became a riot it was no longer a
protest.
That is clear.
Here is an example
https://beyond.britannica.com/how-does-the-u-s-government-define-the-difference-between-a-protest-vs-riot
It was never really a protest and you know that deep down. Just read the
remarks by this governments Minister and officials - it is all there.
You have admitted
nothing at all
Post by Rich80105
that it may well have been a protest for the first
few hours. The course of the ''incident'' was very similar to previous
protests in NZ prisons in the past under different governments;
irrelevant.
Post by Rich80105
it was
wisely described as a protest through the duration of the
""incident"",
Wrongly so described, it quickly became a riot and driven by hard criminals.
And you know that is true.
Post by Rich80105
and as I have previously said there is nothing to
preclude the descrptions of a protest and a riot both being valid at
the same time
Incorrect , they are never synonymous.
Post by Rich80105
, and that is consistent with the article that you posted
No it is not.
Post by Rich80105
- which while based on USA law does not appear to be significantly
different from attitudes and common usage of the terms in New Zealand.
I suggest you should also leave it to the police to determine
appropriate charges, if any, and cease nit-picking semantic
discussions where you give arguments that are contrary to the
conclusions you appear to want to make.
What a nonsensical sentence. I am doing none of what you suggest.
You got it wrong.
It was a riot and driven by hardened criminals.
They need to be held to account but to describe it as a protest was always
idiotic.
Again you demonstrate your arrogance, your insistence that you are the
only person that is correct when faced with clear evidence that it has
been consistently referred to as a protest, even while criminal
charges for actions are being considered.
Again you are unable to accept that other people have the right to an opinion.
It is you that is arrogant and a dangerous person.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Time for you to stop defending criminals.
You are a liar, Tony. I have never defended any of those involved
either for their protesting as they chose to act, or for the criminal
actions that they did. Why do you lie when you are losing an argument,
Tony?
There you are true to form. The first to be abusive.
I am losing nothing and I am not lying and you know it.
You definitely defended them by insisting it was only a protest.
Something that is pathetically idiotic to suggest let alone insist on.
Again you misrepresent what I have said - you are like Trump -
doubling down on your lies.
___________________
A successful resolution for a difficult episode.
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/waikeria-prison-protestors-surrender-after-six-day-standoff
Davis spoke well - he did the right thing in letting the experts
handle it; but he also had the sense to allow access to Rawiri
Waititi, who was able to talk to the leaders of the protest and get
them to come down. Good cooperation between the parties.
The incident has highlighted how badly the prison system had
deteriorated under National - Kelvin Davis made a statement back in
2018 recognising many of the problems; saldy events over the last week
will probably make the situation worse before it gets better.
___________________
"“The arson, violence and destruction carried out by these men were
reckless criminal acts that put themselves, other prisoners,
Corrections staff and emergency services in danger,” Davis says.
“No one should glorify the actions of these prisoners. They damaged
property worth hundreds of thousands of dollars and they put their own
lives and the health and safety of staff and other prisoners at risk.
“There is never an excuse for resorting to violence and destruction."
Potential charges for the destruction will be up to police, Davis
says. "
"“These men wanted political attention, and unfortunately those who
waded into the issue in order to generate headlines only helped to
embolden them, extend the duration of the event, and increase the risk
to safety,” he said.
“I made the decision not to bow to the demands of these men nor make
public comment that would have simply opened up political negotiation
with them and achieved nothing to bring the event to a safe
resolution.” "
________________
Nowhere in that article is the word "riot" used. You appear to be
wanting to escalate the actions of the prisoners for no good reason -
unless you wanted comparisons with the more recent incident in
Washington provoked by the current president; who like you is inclined
to be loose with words and dogmatic in holding views that have been
widely discredited and disagreed with by rational politicians from
many parties, including his own. I suggest that channeliing you "inner
Trump" may not be particularly effective at present, Tony.
A disagreement with your unsupported opinions does not constitute
abuse, Tony, merely disagreement, but your lying about what I have
sais is inexcusable. You should apologise.
Only a fucking imbecile like you would claim arson and assault on prison officers as "protest" Rich. Tony owes you no apology for being factual about your behaviour!
John Bowes
2021-01-07 22:58:21 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 06 Jan 2021 23:39:42 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 06 Jan 2021 22:04:23 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 06 Jan 2021 19:41:53 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by George Black
Post by John Bowes
More newspeak from Rich and Labour! Now it seems committing arson and
attacking prison officers is "just making trouble"! One of the stupider
claims
from both Rich and Labour!
Labour doesn't have the balls or skills to govern!
But but but liebor gave them the vote..
How could the gangs treat them so badly after such a bribe ???
And all that 'fight to the death' talk seems to have disappeared from
the media reports..
It was a riot not a protest
Yes it is and only a person with no moral compass would argue otherwise.
It is clear that it was a protest for at least most of thoe
participating - that is not a moral issue, merely one of accurate
reporting. What they did was however illegal, and prosecutions are
being considered; whether it was a riot is yet another matter; it has
"A riot is a group of 6 or more persons who, acting together, are
using violence against persons or property to the alarm of persons in
the neighbourhood of that group. Every member of a riot is liable to
imprisonment for a term not exceeding 2 years." I am not aware of
anyone arguing that it was not a riot; I suspect prosecutions could
rely on a number of statutes; I'm happy to leave that to the police.
As you should be.
It was a riot by any reasonable definition which precludes it being a protest
longer than the first few hours. It may have been a protest at first but that
is definitely questionable, but once it became a riot it was no longer a
protest.
That is clear.
Here is an example
https://beyond.britannica.com/how-does-the-u-s-government-define-the-difference-between-a-protest-vs-riot
It was never really a protest and you know that deep down. Just read the
remarks by this governments Minister and officials - it is all there.
You have admitted
nothing at all
Post by Rich80105
that it may well have been a protest for the first
few hours. The course of the ''incident'' was very similar to previous
protests in NZ prisons in the past under different governments;
irrelevant.
Post by Rich80105
it was
wisely described as a protest through the duration of the
""incident"",
Wrongly so described, it quickly became a riot and driven by hard criminals.
And you know that is true.
Post by Rich80105
and as I have previously said there is nothing to
preclude the descrptions of a protest and a riot both being valid at
the same time
Incorrect , they are never synonymous.
Post by Rich80105
, and that is consistent with the article that you posted
No it is not.
Post by Rich80105
- which while based on USA law does not appear to be significantly
different from attitudes and common usage of the terms in New Zealand.
I suggest you should also leave it to the police to determine
appropriate charges, if any, and cease nit-picking semantic
discussions where you give arguments that are contrary to the
conclusions you appear to want to make.
What a nonsensical sentence. I am doing none of what you suggest.
You got it wrong.
It was a riot and driven by hardened criminals.
They need to be held to account but to describe it as a protest was always
idiotic.
Again you demonstrate your arrogance, your insistence that you are the
only person that is correct when faced with clear evidence that it has
been consistently referred to as a protest, even while criminal
charges for actions are being considered.
Post by Tony
Time for you to stop defending criminals.
You are a liar, Tony. I have never defended any of those involved
either for their protesting as they chose to act, or for the criminal
actions that they did. Why do you lie when you are losing an argument,
Tony?
The lies are all yours Rich! As Tony points out this is your standard tactic when you lose an argument!
You say you've never defended these criminals? LIE! Insisting on calling it a protest when it's bloody obvious it went further is typical of your lying attitude towards all those who disagree with you or your glorious leader!
James Christophers
2021-01-07 20:39:25 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 06 Jan 2021 22:04:23 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 06 Jan 2021 19:41:53 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by George Black
Post by John Bowes
More newspeak from Rich and Labour! Now it seems committing arson and
attacking prison officers is "just making trouble"! One of the stupider claims
from both Rich and Labour!
Labour doesn't have the balls or skills to govern!
But but but liebor gave them the vote..
How could the gangs treat them so badly after such a bribe ???
And all that 'fight to the death' talk seems to have disappeared from
the media reports..
It was a riot not a protest
Yes it is and only a person with no moral compass would argue otherwise.
It is clear that it was a protest for at least most of thoe
participating - that is not a moral issue, merely one of accurate
reporting. What they did was however illegal, and prosecutions are
being considered; whether it was a riot is yet another matter; it has
"A riot is a group of 6 or more persons who, acting together, are
using violence against persons or property to the alarm of persons in
the neighbourhood of that group. Every member of a riot is liable to
imprisonment for a term not exceeding 2 years." I am not aware of
anyone arguing that it was not a riot; I suspect prosecutions could
rely on a number of statutes; I'm happy to leave that to the police.
As you should be.
It was a riot by any reasonable definition which precludes it being a protest
longer than the first few hours. It may have been a protest at first but that
is definitely questionable, but once it became a riot it was no longer a
protest.
That is clear.
Here is an example
https://beyond.britannica.com/how-does-the-u-s-government-define-the-difference-between-a-protest-vs-riot
It was never really a protest and you know that deep down. Just read the
remarks by this governments Minister and officials - it is all there.
You have admitted
nothing at all
Post by Rich80105
that it may well have been a protest for the first
few hours. The course of the ''incident'' was very similar to previous
protests in NZ prisons in the past under different governments;
irrelevant.
Post by Rich80105
it was
wisely described as a protest through the duration of the
""incident"",
Wrongly so described, it quickly became a riot and driven by hard criminals.
And you know that is true.
Post by Rich80105
and as I have previously said there is nothing to
preclude the descrptions of a protest and a riot both being valid at
the same time
Incorrect , they are never synonymous.
Post by Rich80105
, and that is consistent with the article that you posted
No it is not.
Post by Rich80105
- which while based on USA law does not appear to be significantly
different from attitudes and common usage of the terms in New Zealand.
I suggest you should also leave it to the police to determine
appropriate charges, if any, and cease nit-picking semantic
discussions where you give arguments that are contrary to the
conclusions you appear to want to make.
What a nonsensical sentence. I am doing none of what you suggest.
You got it wrong.
It was a riot and driven by hardened criminals.
They need to be held to account but to describe it as a protest was always
idiotic.
Time for you to stop defending criminals.
The classic pattern:

Individual disaffection > incitement > group protest > further incitement > mass insurgency > riot.

cf: assault on US Capitol, et al.
Tony
2021-01-07 21:32:20 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 06 Jan 2021 22:04:23 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 06 Jan 2021 19:41:53 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by George Black
Post by John Bowes
More newspeak from Rich and Labour! Now it seems committing arson and
attacking prison officers is "just making trouble"! One of the
stupider
claims
from both Rich and Labour!
Labour doesn't have the balls or skills to govern!
But but but liebor gave them the vote..
How could the gangs treat them so badly after such a bribe ???
And all that 'fight to the death' talk seems to have disappeared from
the media reports..
It was a riot not a protest
Yes it is and only a person with no moral compass would argue otherwise.
It is clear that it was a protest for at least most of thoe
participating - that is not a moral issue, merely one of accurate
reporting. What they did was however illegal, and prosecutions are
being considered; whether it was a riot is yet another matter; it has
"A riot is a group of 6 or more persons who, acting together, are
using violence against persons or property to the alarm of persons in
the neighbourhood of that group. Every member of a riot is liable to
imprisonment for a term not exceeding 2 years." I am not aware of
anyone arguing that it was not a riot; I suspect prosecutions could
rely on a number of statutes; I'm happy to leave that to the police.
As you should be.
It was a riot by any reasonable definition which precludes it being a protest
longer than the first few hours. It may have been a protest at first but that
is definitely questionable, but once it became a riot it was no longer a
protest.
That is clear.
Here is an example
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
https://beyond.britannica.com/how-does-the-u-s-government-define-the-difference-between-a-protest-vs-riot
It was never really a protest and you know that deep down. Just read the
remarks by this governments Minister and officials - it is all there.
You have admitted
nothing at all
Post by Rich80105
that it may well have been a protest for the first
few hours. The course of the ''incident'' was very similar to previous
protests in NZ prisons in the past under different governments;
irrelevant.
Post by Rich80105
it was
wisely described as a protest through the duration of the
""incident"",
Wrongly so described, it quickly became a riot and driven by hard criminals.
And you know that is true.
Post by Rich80105
and as I have previously said there is nothing to
preclude the descrptions of a protest and a riot both being valid at
the same time
Incorrect , they are never synonymous.
Post by Rich80105
, and that is consistent with the article that you posted
No it is not.
Post by Rich80105
- which while based on USA law does not appear to be significantly
different from attitudes and common usage of the terms in New Zealand.
I suggest you should also leave it to the police to determine
appropriate charges, if any, and cease nit-picking semantic
discussions where you give arguments that are contrary to the
conclusions you appear to want to make.
What a nonsensical sentence. I am doing none of what you suggest.
You got it wrong.
It was a riot and driven by hardened criminals.
They need to be held to account but to describe it as a protest was always
idiotic.
Time for you to stop defending criminals.
Individual disaffection > incitement > group protest > further incitement >
mass insurgency > riot.
cf: assault on US Capitol, et al.
Yes
James Christophers
2021-01-07 22:07:26 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 06 Jan 2021 19:41:53 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by George Black
Post by John Bowes
More newspeak from Rich and Labour! Now it seems committing arson and
attacking prison officers is "just making trouble"! One of the stupider claims
from both Rich and Labour!
Labour doesn't have the balls or skills to govern!
But but but liebor gave them the vote..
How could the gangs treat them so badly after such a bribe ???
And all that 'fight to the death' talk seems to have disappeared from
the media reports..
It was a riot not a protest
Yes it is and only a person with no moral compass would argue otherwise.
It is clear that it was a protest for at least most of thoe
participating - that is not a moral issue, merely one of accurate
reporting. What they did was however illegal, and prosecutions are
being considered; whether it was a riot is yet another matter; it has
"A riot is a group of 6 or more persons who, acting together, are
using violence against persons or property to the alarm of persons in
the neighbourhood of that group. Every member of a riot is liable to
imprisonment for a term not exceeding 2 years." I am not aware of
anyone arguing that it was not a riot; I suspect prosecutions could
rely on a number of statutes; I'm happy to leave that to the police.
As you should be.
It was a riot by any reasonable definition which precludes it being a protest
longer than the first few hours. It may have been a protest at first but that
is definitely questionable, but once it became a riot it was no longer a
protest.
That is clear.
Here is an example
https://beyond.britannica.com/how-does-the-u-s-government-define-the-difference-between-a-protest-vs-riot
It was never really a protest and you know that deep down. Just read the
remarks by this governments Minister and officials - it is all there.
As per the URL's ref, Duignan is clear on a point of law - US law, that is. However, while protest and riot are not synonymous within the formal and narrow confines of the **legally based** distinctions given by Duignan, Oxford Languages gives us this: "closely associated with or suggestive of something - e.g. "his deeds had made his name synonymous with victory"'; to which I for one would defer in informal discourse such as we have here where the one is inextricably associated with the other.
Tony
2021-01-07 22:23:15 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 06 Jan 2021 19:41:53 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by George Black
Post by John Bowes
More newspeak from Rich and Labour! Now it seems committing arson and
attacking prison officers is "just making trouble"! One of the stupider claims
from both Rich and Labour!
Labour doesn't have the balls or skills to govern!
But but but liebor gave them the vote..
How could the gangs treat them so badly after such a bribe ???
And all that 'fight to the death' talk seems to have disappeared from
the media reports..
It was a riot not a protest
Yes it is and only a person with no moral compass would argue otherwise.
It is clear that it was a protest for at least most of thoe
participating - that is not a moral issue, merely one of accurate
reporting. What they did was however illegal, and prosecutions are
being considered; whether it was a riot is yet another matter; it has
"A riot is a group of 6 or more persons who, acting together, are
using violence against persons or property to the alarm of persons in
the neighbourhood of that group. Every member of a riot is liable to
imprisonment for a term not exceeding 2 years." I am not aware of
anyone arguing that it was not a riot; I suspect prosecutions could
rely on a number of statutes; I'm happy to leave that to the police.
As you should be.
It was a riot by any reasonable definition which precludes it being a protest
longer than the first few hours. It may have been a protest at first but that
is definitely questionable, but once it became a riot it was no longer a
protest.
That is clear.
Here is an example
https://beyond.britannica.com/how-does-the-u-s-government-define-the-difference-between-a-protest-vs-riot
It was never really a protest and you know that deep down. Just read the
remarks by this governments Minister and officials - it is all there.
As per the URL's ref, Duignan is clear on a point of law - US law, that is.
However, while protest and riot are not synonymous within the formal and narrow
confines of the **legally based** distinctions given by Duignan, Oxford
Languages gives us this: "closely associated with or suggestive of something -
e.g. "his deeds had made his name synonymous with victory"'; to which I for one
would defer in informal discourse such as we have here where the one is
inextricably associated with the other.
Fair opinion, but opinion it is. Unlike some I do not seek to remove your right
to an opinion and expressing it, within civilised constraints.
James Christophers
2021-01-07 23:55:08 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 06 Jan 2021 19:41:53 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by George Black
Post by John Bowes
More newspeak from Rich and Labour! Now it seems committing arson and
attacking prison officers is "just making trouble"! One of the stupider
claims
from both Rich and Labour!
Labour doesn't have the balls or skills to govern!
But but but liebor gave them the vote..
How could the gangs treat them so badly after such a bribe ???
And all that 'fight to the death' talk seems to have disappeared from
the media reports..
It was a riot not a protest
Yes it is and only a person with no moral compass would argue otherwise.
It is clear that it was a protest for at least most of thoe
participating - that is not a moral issue, merely one of accurate
reporting. What they did was however illegal, and prosecutions are
being considered; whether it was a riot is yet another matter; it has
"A riot is a group of 6 or more persons who, acting together, are
using violence against persons or property to the alarm of persons in
the neighbourhood of that group. Every member of a riot is liable to
imprisonment for a term not exceeding 2 years." I am not aware of
anyone arguing that it was not a riot; I suspect prosecutions could
rely on a number of statutes; I'm happy to leave that to the police.
As you should be.
It was a riot by any reasonable definition which precludes it being a protest
longer than the first few hours. It may have been a protest at first but that
is definitely questionable, but once it became a riot it was no longer a
protest.
That is clear.
Here is an example
https://beyond.britannica.com/how-does-the-u-s-government-define-the-difference-between-a-protest-vs-riot
It was never really a protest and you know that deep down. Just read the
remarks by this governments Minister and officials - it is all there.
As per the URL's ref, Duignan is clear on a point of law - US law, that is.
However, while protest and riot are not synonymous within the formal and narrow
confines of the **legally based** distinctions given by Duignan, Oxford
Languages gives us this: "closely associated with or suggestive of something -
e.g. "his deeds had made his name synonymous with victory"'; to which I for one
would defer in informal discourse such as we have here where the one is
inextricably associated with the other.
Fair opinion, but opinion it is.
Not so much an opinion as a considered, commonsense view and, you'll note, a view that defers to the higher learning of others.
Post by Tony
Unlike some I do not seek to remove your right
to an opinion and expressing it, within civilised constraints.
How terribly big of you!
Tony
2021-01-08 00:11:06 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 06 Jan 2021 19:41:53 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by George Black
Post by John Bowes
More newspeak from Rich and Labour! Now it seems committing arson and
attacking prison officers is "just making trouble"! One of the stupider
claims
from both Rich and Labour!
Labour doesn't have the balls or skills to govern!
But but but liebor gave them the vote..
How could the gangs treat them so badly after such a bribe ???
And all that 'fight to the death' talk seems to have disappeared from
the media reports..
It was a riot not a protest
Yes it is and only a person with no moral compass would argue otherwise.
It is clear that it was a protest for at least most of thoe
participating - that is not a moral issue, merely one of accurate
reporting. What they did was however illegal, and prosecutions are
being considered; whether it was a riot is yet another matter; it has
"A riot is a group of 6 or more persons who, acting together, are
using violence against persons or property to the alarm of persons in
the neighbourhood of that group. Every member of a riot is liable to
imprisonment for a term not exceeding 2 years." I am not aware of
anyone arguing that it was not a riot; I suspect prosecutions could
rely on a number of statutes; I'm happy to leave that to the police.
As you should be.
It was a riot by any reasonable definition which precludes it being a protest
longer than the first few hours. It may have been a protest at first but that
is definitely questionable, but once it became a riot it was no longer a
protest.
That is clear.
Here is an example
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
https://beyond.britannica.com/how-does-the-u-s-government-define-the-difference-between-a-protest-vs-riot
It was never really a protest and you know that deep down. Just read the
remarks by this governments Minister and officials - it is all there.
As per the URL's ref, Duignan is clear on a point of law - US law, that is.
However, while protest and riot are not synonymous within the formal and narrow
confines of the **legally based** distinctions given by Duignan, Oxford
Languages gives us this: "closely associated with or suggestive of something -
e.g. "his deeds had made his name synonymous with victory"'; to which I for one
would defer in informal discourse such as we have here where the one is
inextricably associated with the other.
Fair opinion, but opinion it is.
Not so much an opinion as a considered, commonsense view and, you'll note, a
view that defers to the higher learning of others.
Another opinion.
Equally pointless.
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Unlike some I do not seek to remove your right
to an opinion and expressing it, within civilised constraints.
How terribly big of you!
No not at all, a basic human approach.
James Christophers
2021-01-08 01:06:30 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 06 Jan 2021 19:41:53 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by George Black
Post by John Bowes
More newspeak from Rich and Labour! Now it seems committing arson and
attacking prison officers is "just making trouble"! One of the stupider
claims
from both Rich and Labour!
Labour doesn't have the balls or skills to govern!
But but but liebor gave them the vote..
How could the gangs treat them so badly after such a bribe ???
And all that 'fight to the death' talk seems to have disappeared from
the media reports..
It was a riot not a protest
Yes it is and only a person with no moral compass would argue otherwise.
It is clear that it was a protest for at least most of thoe
participating - that is not a moral issue, merely one of accurate
reporting. What they did was however illegal, and prosecutions are
being considered; whether it was a riot is yet another matter; it has
"A riot is a group of 6 or more persons who, acting together, are
using violence against persons or property to the alarm of persons in
the neighbourhood of that group. Every member of a riot is liable to
imprisonment for a term not exceeding 2 years." I am not aware of
anyone arguing that it was not a riot; I suspect prosecutions could
rely on a number of statutes; I'm happy to leave that to the police.
As you should be.
It was a riot by any reasonable definition which precludes it being a protest
longer than the first few hours. It may have been a protest at first but that
is definitely questionable, but once it became a riot it was no longer a
protest.
That is clear.
Here is an example
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
https://beyond.britannica.com/how-does-the-u-s-government-define-the-difference-between-a-protest-vs-riot
It was never really a protest and you know that deep down. Just read the
remarks by this governments Minister and officials - it is all there.
As per the URL's ref, Duignan is clear on a point of law - US law, that is.
However, while protest and riot are not synonymous within the formal and narrow
confines of the **legally based** distinctions given by Duignan, Oxford
Languages gives us this: "closely associated with or suggestive of something -
e.g. "his deeds had made his name synonymous with victory"'; to which I for one
would defer in informal discourse such as we have here where the one is
inextricably associated with the other.
Fair opinion, but opinion it is.
Not so much an opinion as a considered, commonsense view and, you'll note, a
view that defers to the higher learning of others.
Another opinion.
But one, as I say, qualified by authoritative supporting material, thereby qualifying as valid comment in its own right. Unqualified opinion alone cannot sustain discourse of the kind you would so unctuously call 'debate'. You think otherwise? Then show exactly why and how.
Post by Tony
Equally pointless.
Oh dearie me! - self-negating irony writ large!
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Unlike some I do not seek to remove your right
to an opinion and expressing it, within civilised constraints.
How terribly big of you!
No not at all, a basic human approach.
I thank you for your unctuous concern but be kindly advised that the sententious presumptuousness in "Unlike some I do not seek to remove your right to an opinion and expressing it, within civilised constraints," cuts no ice with me when you, I and the whole world know you are not, and never will be, empowered to "remove" any right whatever from me or, for that matter, anyone else.

Thus the sum total of your zero-content pointlessness in this segment of the thread, at which point the segment has talked itself out, so I leave it to you to continue barking at the moon if that's what makes yer donkey bray.
Tony
2021-01-08 01:29:23 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 06 Jan 2021 19:41:53 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by George Black
Post by John Bowes
More newspeak from Rich and Labour! Now it seems committing arson
and
attacking prison officers is "just making trouble"! One of the
stupider
claims
from both Rich and Labour!
Labour doesn't have the balls or skills to govern!
But but but liebor gave them the vote..
How could the gangs treat them so badly after such a bribe ???
And all that 'fight to the death' talk seems to have disappeared from
the media reports..
It was a riot not a protest
Yes it is and only a person with no moral compass would argue otherwise.
It is clear that it was a protest for at least most of thoe
participating - that is not a moral issue, merely one of accurate
reporting. What they did was however illegal, and prosecutions are
being considered; whether it was a riot is yet another matter; it has
"A riot is a group of 6 or more persons who, acting together, are
using violence against persons or property to the alarm of persons in
the neighbourhood of that group. Every member of a riot is liable to
imprisonment for a term not exceeding 2 years." I am not aware of
anyone arguing that it was not a riot; I suspect prosecutions could
rely on a number of statutes; I'm happy to leave that to the police.
As you should be.
It was a riot by any reasonable definition which precludes it being a protest
longer than the first few hours. It may have been a protest at first
but
that
is definitely questionable, but once it became a riot it was no longer a
protest.
That is clear.
Here is an example
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by George Black
Post by John Bowes
Post by Tony
https://beyond.britannica.com/how-does-the-u-s-government-define-the-difference-between-a-protest-vs-riot
It was never really a protest and you know that deep down. Just read the
remarks by this governments Minister and officials - it is all there.
As per the URL's ref, Duignan is clear on a point of law - US law, that is.
However, while protest and riot are not synonymous within the formal and narrow
confines of the **legally based** distinctions given by Duignan, Oxford
Languages gives us this: "closely associated with or suggestive of something -
e.g. "his deeds had made his name synonymous with victory"'; to which I
for
one
would defer in informal discourse such as we have here where the one is
inextricably associated with the other.
Fair opinion, but opinion it is.
Not so much an opinion as a considered, commonsense view and, you'll note, a
view that defers to the higher learning of others.
Another opinion.
But one, as I say, qualified by authoritative supporting material, thereby
qualifying as valid comment in its own right. Unqualified opinion alone cannot
sustain discourse of the kind you would so unctuously call 'debate'. You think
otherwise? Then show exactly why and how.
Post by Tony
Equally pointless.
Oh dearie me! - self-negating irony writ large!
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Unlike some I do not seek to remove your right
to an opinion and expressing it, within civilised constraints.
How terribly big of you!
No not at all, a basic human approach.
I thank you for your unctuous concern but be kindly advised that the
sententious presumptuousness in "Unlike some I do not seek to remove your right
to an opinion and expressing it, within civilised constraints," cuts no ice
with me when you, I and the whole world know you are not, and never will be,
empowered to "remove" any right whatever from me or, for that matter, anyone
else.
Thus the sum total of your zero-content pointlessness in this segment of the
thread, at which point the segment has talked itself out, so I leave it to you
to continue barking at the moon if that's what makes yer donkey bray.
So Keith Warren follows his pet dog and is the first in this sub thread to be
abusive.
Don't deny it Keith, your pseudo intellectual poppycock is transparently
self-aggrandizing. Your thinly disguised contempt for anyone who dares to
disagree with you or has an opinion you are not prepared to accept leaves
no-one hear in any doubt about your worth. Nevertheless the rest of us are
broadminded enough to tolerate your self deception.
Rich80105
2021-01-08 05:25:02 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Thu, 07 Jan 2021 19:29:23 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 06 Jan 2021 19:41:53 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by George Black
On Wednesday, January 6, 2021 at 3:05:38 PM UTC+13, undefined
More newspeak from Rich and Labour! Now it seems committing arson
and
attacking prison officers is "just making trouble"! One of the
stupider
claims
from both Rich and Labour!
Labour doesn't have the balls or skills to govern!
But but but liebor gave them the vote..
How could the gangs treat them so badly after such a bribe ???
And all that 'fight to the death' talk seems to have disappeared from
the media reports..
It was a riot not a protest
Yes it is and only a person with no moral compass would argue
otherwise.
It is clear that it was a protest for at least most of thoe
participating - that is not a moral issue, merely one of accurate
reporting. What they did was however illegal, and prosecutions are
being considered; whether it was a riot is yet another matter; it has
"A riot is a group of 6 or more persons who, acting together, are
using violence against persons or property to the alarm of persons in
the neighbourhood of that group. Every member of a riot is liable to
imprisonment for a term not exceeding 2 years." I am not aware of
anyone arguing that it was not a riot; I suspect prosecutions could
rely on a number of statutes; I'm happy to leave that to the police.
As you should be.
It was a riot by any reasonable definition which precludes it being a
protest
longer than the first few hours. It may have been a protest at first
but
that
is definitely questionable, but once it became a riot it was no longer a
protest.
That is clear.
Here is an example
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by George Black
Post by Tony
https://beyond.britannica.com/how-does-the-u-s-government-define-the-difference-between-a-protest-vs-riot
It was never really a protest and you know that deep down. Just read the
remarks by this governments Minister and officials - it is all there.
As per the URL's ref, Duignan is clear on a point of law - US law, that is.
However, while protest and riot are not synonymous within the formal and narrow
confines of the **legally based** distinctions given by Duignan, Oxford
Languages gives us this: "closely associated with or suggestive of something -
e.g. "his deeds had made his name synonymous with victory"'; to which I
for
one
would defer in informal discourse such as we have here where the one is
inextricably associated with the other.
Fair opinion, but opinion it is.
Not so much an opinion as a considered, commonsense view and, you'll note, a
view that defers to the higher learning of others.
Another opinion.
But one, as I say, qualified by authoritative supporting material, thereby
qualifying as valid comment in its own right. Unqualified opinion alone cannot
sustain discourse of the kind you would so unctuously call 'debate'. You think
otherwise? Then show exactly why and how.
Post by Tony
Equally pointless.
Oh dearie me! - self-negating irony writ large!
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Unlike some I do not seek to remove your right
to an opinion and expressing it, within civilised constraints.
How terribly big of you!
No not at all, a basic human approach.
I thank you for your unctuous concern but be kindly advised that the
sententious presumptuousness in "Unlike some I do not seek to remove your right
to an opinion and expressing it, within civilised constraints," cuts no ice
with me when you, I and the whole world know you are not, and never will be,
empowered to "remove" any right whatever from me or, for that matter, anyone
else.
Thus the sum total of your zero-content pointlessness in this segment of the
thread, at which point the segment has talked itself out, so I leave it to you
to continue barking at the moon if that's what makes yer donkey bray.
So Keith Warren follows his pet dog and is the first in this sub thread to be
abusive.
Which you have not identified, but instead follow your unsupported
opinion with abuse of your own below . . .
Post by Tony
Don't deny it Keith, your pseudo intellectual poppycock is transparently
self-aggrandizing. Your thinly disguised contempt for anyone who dares to
disagree with you or has an opinion you are not prepared to accept leaves
no-one hear in any doubt about your worth. Nevertheless the rest of us are
broadminded enough to tolerate your self deception.
Tony
2021-01-08 05:52:40 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 07 Jan 2021 19:29:23 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 06 Jan 2021 19:41:53 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by George Black
On Wednesday, January 6, 2021 at 3:05:38 PM UTC+13, undefined
More newspeak from Rich and Labour! Now it seems committing
arson
and
attacking prison officers is "just making trouble"! One of the
stupider
claims
from both Rich and Labour!
Labour doesn't have the balls or skills to govern!
But but but liebor gave them the vote..
How could the gangs treat them so badly after such a bribe ???
And all that 'fight to the death' talk seems to have disappeared
from
the media reports..
It was a riot not a protest
Yes it is and only a person with no moral compass would argue
otherwise.
It is clear that it was a protest for at least most of thoe
participating - that is not a moral issue, merely one of accurate
reporting. What they did was however illegal, and prosecutions are
being considered; whether it was a riot is yet another matter; it has
"A riot is a group of 6 or more persons who, acting together, are
using violence against persons or property to the alarm of persons in
the neighbourhood of that group. Every member of a riot is liable to
imprisonment for a term not exceeding 2 years." I am not aware of
anyone arguing that it was not a riot; I suspect prosecutions could
rely on a number of statutes; I'm happy to leave that to the police.
As you should be.
It was a riot by any reasonable definition which precludes it being a
protest
longer than the first few hours. It may have been a protest at first
but
that
is definitely questionable, but once it became a riot it was no
longer
a
protest.
That is clear.
Here is an example
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by George Black
Post by Tony
https://beyond.britannica.com/how-does-the-u-s-government-define-the-difference-between-a-protest-vs-riot
It was never really a protest and you know that deep down. Just read the
remarks by this governments Minister and officials - it is all there.
As per the URL's ref, Duignan is clear on a point of law - US law,
that
is.
However, while protest and riot are not synonymous within the formal
and
narrow
confines of the **legally based** distinctions given by Duignan, Oxford
Languages gives us this: "closely associated with or suggestive of
something -
e.g. "his deeds had made his name synonymous with victory"'; to which I
for
one
would defer in informal discourse such as we have here where the one is
inextricably associated with the other.
Fair opinion, but opinion it is.
Not so much an opinion as a considered, commonsense view and, you'll
note,
a
view that defers to the higher learning of others.
Another opinion.
But one, as I say, qualified by authoritative supporting material, thereby
qualifying as valid comment in its own right. Unqualified opinion alone cannot
sustain discourse of the kind you would so unctuously call 'debate'. You think
otherwise? Then show exactly why and how.
Post by Tony
Equally pointless.
Oh dearie me! - self-negating irony writ large!
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Unlike some I do not seek to remove your right
to an opinion and expressing it, within civilised constraints.
How terribly big of you!
No not at all, a basic human approach.
I thank you for your unctuous concern but be kindly advised that the
sententious presumptuousness in "Unlike some I do not seek to remove your right
to an opinion and expressing it, within civilised constraints," cuts no ice
with me when you, I and the whole world know you are not, and never will be,
empowered to "remove" any right whatever from me or, for that matter, anyone
else.
Thus the sum total of your zero-content pointlessness in this segment of the
thread, at which point the segment has talked itself out, so I leave it to you
to continue barking at the moon if that's what makes yer donkey bray.
So Keith Warren follows his pet dog and is the first in this sub thread to be
abusive.
Which you have not identified, but instead follow your unsupported
opinion with abuse of your own below . . .
I have abused nobody in this thread. Perhaps you could provide a cite for that
unfounded accusation.
His pet dog is clear to most here.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Don't deny it Keith, your pseudo intellectual poppycock is transparently
self-aggrandizing. Your thinly disguised contempt for anyone who dares to
disagree with you or has an opinion you are not prepared to accept leaves
no-one hear in any doubt about your worth. Nevertheless the rest of us are
broadminded enough to tolerate your self deception.
Rich80105
2021-01-08 20:12:09 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Thu, 07 Jan 2021 23:52:40 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 07 Jan 2021 19:29:23 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 06 Jan 2021 19:41:53 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by George Black
On Wednesday, January 6, 2021 at 3:05:38 PM UTC+13, undefined
More newspeak from Rich and Labour! Now it seems committing
arson
and
attacking prison officers is "just making trouble"! One of the
stupider
claims
from both Rich and Labour!
Labour doesn't have the balls or skills to govern!
But but but liebor gave them the vote..
How could the gangs treat them so badly after such a bribe ???
And all that 'fight to the death' talk seems to have disappeared
from
the media reports..
It was a riot not a protest
Yes it is and only a person with no moral compass would argue
otherwise.
It is clear that it was a protest for at least most of thoe
participating - that is not a moral issue, merely one of accurate
reporting. What they did was however illegal, and prosecutions are
being considered; whether it was a riot is yet another matter; it has
"A riot is a group of 6 or more persons who, acting together, are
using violence against persons or property to the alarm of persons in
the neighbourhood of that group. Every member of a riot is liable to
imprisonment for a term not exceeding 2 years." I am not aware of
anyone arguing that it was not a riot; I suspect prosecutions could
rely on a number of statutes; I'm happy to leave that to the police.
As you should be.
It was a riot by any reasonable definition which precludes it being a
protest
longer than the first few hours. It may have been a protest at first
but
that
is definitely questionable, but once it became a riot it was no
longer
a
protest.
That is clear.
Here is an example
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by George Black
Post by Tony
https://beyond.britannica.com/how-does-the-u-s-government-define-the-difference-between-a-protest-vs-riot
It was never really a protest and you know that deep down. Just read the
remarks by this governments Minister and officials - it is all there.
As per the URL's ref, Duignan is clear on a point of law - US law,
that
is.
However, while protest and riot are not synonymous within the formal
and
narrow
confines of the **legally based** distinctions given by Duignan, Oxford
Languages gives us this: "closely associated with or suggestive of
something -
e.g. "his deeds had made his name synonymous with victory"'; to which I
for
one
would defer in informal discourse such as we have here where the one is
inextricably associated with the other.
Fair opinion, but opinion it is.
Not so much an opinion as a considered, commonsense view and, you'll
note,
a
view that defers to the higher learning of others.
Another opinion.
But one, as I say, qualified by authoritative supporting material, thereby
qualifying as valid comment in its own right. Unqualified opinion alone cannot
sustain discourse of the kind you would so unctuously call 'debate'. You think
otherwise? Then show exactly why and how.
Post by Tony
Equally pointless.
Oh dearie me! - self-negating irony writ large!
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Unlike some I do not seek to remove your right
to an opinion and expressing it, within civilised constraints.
How terribly big of you!
No not at all, a basic human approach.
I thank you for your unctuous concern but be kindly advised that the
sententious presumptuousness in "Unlike some I do not seek to remove your right
to an opinion and expressing it, within civilised constraints," cuts no ice
with me when you, I and the whole world know you are not, and never will be,
empowered to "remove" any right whatever from me or, for that matter, anyone
else.
Thus the sum total of your zero-content pointlessness in this segment of the
thread, at which point the segment has talked itself out, so I leave it to you
to continue barking at the moon if that's what makes yer donkey bray.
So Keith Warren follows his pet dog and is the first in this sub thread to be
abusive.
Which you have not identified, but instead follow your unsupported
opinion with abuse of your own below . . .
I have abused nobody in this thread. Perhaps you could provide a cite for that
unfounded accusation.
Where did you think "below" referred to?
Post by Tony
His pet dog is clear to most here.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Don't deny it Keith, your pseudo intellectual poppycock is transparently
self-aggrandizing. Your thinly disguised contempt for anyone who dares to
disagree with you or has an opinion you are not prepared to accept leaves
no-one hear in any doubt about your worth. Nevertheless the rest of us are
broadminded enough to tolerate your self deception.
Tony
2021-01-08 22:10:33 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 07 Jan 2021 23:52:40 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 07 Jan 2021 19:29:23 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Removed for brevity.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Thus the sum total of your zero-content pointlessness in this segment of the
thread, at which point the segment has talked itself out, so I leave it to you
to continue barking at the moon if that's what makes yer donkey bray.
So Keith Warren follows his pet dog and is the first in this sub thread to be
abusive.
Which you have not identified, but instead follow your unsupported
opinion with abuse of your own below . . .
I have abused nobody in this thread. Perhaps you could provide a cite for that
unfounded accusation.
Where did you think "below" referred to?
You tell me.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
His pet dog is clear to most here.
Rich80105
2021-01-08 22:23:56 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Fri, 08 Jan 2021 16:10:33 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 07 Jan 2021 23:52:40 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 07 Jan 2021 19:29:23 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Removed for brevity.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Thus the sum total of your zero-content pointlessness in this segment of the
thread, at which point the segment has talked itself out, so I leave it to you
to continue barking at the moon if that's what makes yer donkey bray.
So Keith Warren follows his pet dog and is the first in this sub thread to be
abusive.
Which you have not identified, but instead follow your unsupported
opinion with abuse of your own below . . .
I have abused nobody in this thread. Perhaps you could provide a cite for that
unfounded accusation.
Where did you think "below" referred to?
You tell me.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
His pet dog is clear to most here.
You are a riot at times, Tony! Did you really think your deliberate
snipping (nothing to do with brevity) would be missed by readers? Your
dishonesty, lack of personal perception and narrow-minded intolerance
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Don't deny it Keith, your pseudo intellectual poppycock is transparently
self-aggrandizing. Your thinly disguised contempt for anyone who dares to
disagree with you or has an opinion you are not prepared to accept leaves
no-one hear in any doubt about your worth. Nevertheless the rest of us are
broadminded enough to tolerate your self deception.
Tony
2021-01-09 00:50:36 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 08 Jan 2021 16:10:33 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 07 Jan 2021 23:52:40 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 07 Jan 2021 19:29:23 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Removed for brevity.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Thus the sum total of your zero-content pointlessness in this segment of the
thread, at which point the segment has talked itself out, so I leave it
to
you
to continue barking at the moon if that's what makes yer donkey bray.
So Keith Warren follows his pet dog and is the first in this sub thread
to
be
abusive.
Which you have not identified, but instead follow your unsupported
opinion with abuse of your own below . . .
I have abused nobody in this thread. Perhaps you could provide a cite for that
unfounded accusation.
Where did you think "below" referred to?
You tell me.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
His pet dog is clear to most here.
You are a riot at times, Tony! Did you really think your deliberate
snipping (nothing to do with brevity) would be missed by readers? Your
dishonesty, lack of personal perception and narrow-minded intolerance
You know that what was snipped has nothing to do with your deliberate refusal
to acceprt that you incorrectly identified a riot as merely a protest. And you
did that more than once.
That is all this debate has come to therefore the snip is clearly for bervity
(except in your own little world).
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Don't deny it Keith, your pseudo intellectual poppycock is transparently
self-aggrandizing. Your thinly disguised contempt for anyone who dares to
disagree with you or has an opinion you are not prepared to accept leaves
no-one hear in any doubt about your worth. Nevertheless the rest of us are
broadminded enough to tolerate your self deception.
Not a single word of abuse. All either fact or intelligent opinion based on
his years of behaving exactly as I have described.
He and you were the first to use abuse in this thread. I have not done so.
Feel free to post yet another lie. I have no doubt that you will.
Rich80105
2021-01-09 01:23:17 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Fri, 08 Jan 2021 18:50:36 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 08 Jan 2021 16:10:33 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 07 Jan 2021 23:52:40 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 07 Jan 2021 19:29:23 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Removed for brevity.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Thus the sum total of your zero-content pointlessness in this segment of the
thread, at which point the segment has talked itself out, so I leave it
to
you
to continue barking at the moon if that's what makes yer donkey bray.
So Keith Warren follows his pet dog and is the first in this sub thread
to
be
abusive.
Which you have not identified, but instead follow your unsupported
opinion with abuse of your own below . . .
I have abused nobody in this thread. Perhaps you could provide a cite for that
unfounded accusation.
Where did you think "below" referred to?
You tell me.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
His pet dog is clear to most here.
You are a riot at times, Tony! Did you really think your deliberate
snipping (nothing to do with brevity) would be missed by readers? Your
dishonesty, lack of personal perception and narrow-minded intolerance
You know that what was snipped has nothing to do with your deliberate refusal
to acceprt that you incorrectly identified a riot as merely a protest. And you
did that more than once.
Incorrect - again you lie.
Post by Tony
That is all this debate has come to therefore the snip is clearly for bervity
(except in your own little world).
Your snipping is, as always, designed to try and hide facts you would
rather deny.
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Don't deny it Keith, your pseudo intellectual poppycock is transparently
self-aggrandizing. Your thinly disguised contempt for anyone who dares to
disagree with you or has an opinion you are not prepared to accept leaves
no-one hear in any doubt about your worth. Nevertheless the rest of us are
broadminded enough to tolerate your self deception.
Not a single word of abuse. All either fact or intelligent opinion based on
his years of behaving exactly as I have described.
He and you were the first to use abuse in this thread. I have not done so.
Feel free to post yet another lie. I have no doubt that you will.
Your self-delusions are your problem.
Tony
2021-01-09 02:35:46 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 08 Jan 2021 18:50:36 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 08 Jan 2021 16:10:33 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 07 Jan 2021 23:52:40 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 07 Jan 2021 19:29:23 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Removed for brevity.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Thus the sum total of your zero-content pointlessness in this segment
of
the
thread, at which point the segment has talked itself out, so I leave it
to
you
to continue barking at the moon if that's what makes yer donkey bray.
So Keith Warren follows his pet dog and is the first in this sub thread
to
be
abusive.
Which you have not identified, but instead follow your unsupported
opinion with abuse of your own below . . .
I have abused nobody in this thread. Perhaps you could provide a cite for that
unfounded accusation.
Where did you think "below" referred to?
You tell me.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
His pet dog is clear to most here.
You are a riot at times, Tony! Did you really think your deliberate
snipping (nothing to do with brevity) would be missed by readers? Your
dishonesty, lack of personal perception and narrow-minded intolerance
You know that what was snipped has nothing to do with your deliberate refusal
to acceprt that you incorrectly identified a riot as merely a protest. And you
did that more than once.
Incorrect - again you lie.
No.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
That is all this debate has come to therefore the snip is clearly for bervity
(except in your own little world).
Your snipping is, as always, designed to try and hide facts you would
rather deny.
Not correct and a bare faced Rich lie.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Don't deny it Keith, your pseudo intellectual poppycock is transparently
self-aggrandizing. Your thinly disguised contempt for anyone who dares to
disagree with you or has an opinion you are not prepared to accept leaves
no-one hear in any doubt about your worth. Nevertheless the rest of us are
broadminded enough to tolerate your self deception.
Not a single word of abuse. All either fact or intelligent opinion based on
his years of behaving exactly as I have described.
He and you were the first to use abuse in this thread. I have not done so.
Feel free to post yet another lie. I have no doubt that you will.
Your self-delusions are your problem.
I have none. I did not abuse Keith Warren. You and he are the only ones here
that have used abuse.
More than once in both of your cases.
John Bowes
2021-01-09 05:25:14 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 08 Jan 2021 18:50:36 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 08 Jan 2021 16:10:33 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 07 Jan 2021 23:52:40 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 07 Jan 2021 19:29:23 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Removed for brevity.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Thus the sum total of your zero-content pointlessness in this segment of
the
thread, at which point the segment has talked itself out, so I leave it
to
you
to continue barking at the moon if that's what makes yer donkey bray.
So Keith Warren follows his pet dog and is the first in this sub thread
to
be
abusive.
Which you have not identified, but instead follow your unsupported
opinion with abuse of your own below . . .
I have abused nobody in this thread. Perhaps you could provide a cite for that
unfounded accusation.
Where did you think "below" referred to?
You tell me.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
His pet dog is clear to most here.
You are a riot at times, Tony! Did you really think your deliberate
snipping (nothing to do with brevity) would be missed by readers? Your
dishonesty, lack of personal perception and narrow-minded intolerance
You know that what was snipped has nothing to do with your deliberate refusal
to acceprt that you incorrectly identified a riot as merely a protest. And you
did that more than once.
Incorrect - again you lie.
FACT! You've been claiming it was a protest in every one of your posts in this thread!
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
That is all this debate has come to therefore the snip is clearly for bervity
(except in your own little world).
Your snipping is, as always, designed to try and hide facts you would
rather deny.
So what are your snips for Rich? To have an open and honest debate? I don't think so, you couldn't be honest if you tried!
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Don't deny it Keith, your pseudo intellectual poppycock is transparently
self-aggrandizing. Your thinly disguised contempt for anyone who dares to
disagree with you or has an opinion you are not prepared to accept leaves
no-one hear in any doubt about your worth. Nevertheless the rest of us are
broadminded enough to tolerate your self deception.
Not a single word of abuse. All either fact or intelligent opinion based on
his years of behaving exactly as I have described.
He and you were the first to use abuse in this thread. I have not done so.
Feel free to post yet another lie. I have no doubt that you will.
Your self-delusions are your problem.
The self delusion is all yours Rich and always has been. Calling you a fucking imbecile is an insult to imbeciles!
James Christophers
2021-01-09 03:31:22 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 08 Jan 2021 16:10:33 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 07 Jan 2021 23:52:40 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 07 Jan 2021 19:29:23 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Removed for brevity.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Thus the sum total of your zero-content pointlessness in this segment of the
thread, at which point the segment has talked itself out, so I leave it
to
you
to continue barking at the moon if that's what makes yer donkey bray.
So Keith Warren follows his pet dog and is the first in this sub thread
to
be
abusive.
Which you have not identified, but instead follow your unsupported
opinion with abuse of your own below . . .
I have abused nobody in this thread. Perhaps you could provide a cite for that
unfounded accusation.
Where did you think "below" referred to?
You tell me.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
His pet dog is clear to most here.
You are a riot at times, Tony! Did you really think your deliberate
snipping (nothing to do with brevity) would be missed by readers? Your
dishonesty, lack of personal perception and narrow-minded intolerance
You know that what was snipped has nothing to do with your deliberate refusal
to acceprt that you incorrectly identified a riot as merely a protest.
On a point of fact, where in this thread has Rich or anyone else "refused" - in terms - to accept it was a riot? If such a declaration appears in this thread, then kindly cite it if only for the conclusive staisfaction of all concerned. Seems fair and reasonable to me.

Yet again these exchanges have gone the way of countless others in which you must needs try to dominate the discourse from the outset by forcing your lordly self-opinionation and recalcitrance on others, most of it, mark you, sans supporting material, which leaves you with litttle support or leverage. And it's not as if you have not been sagely advised on this habitual lacuna of yours by another party.

On this occasion the more perceptive will have noted that Rich has, I think, deliberately gone out of his way to evade a word you would have him kneel to - this being a puckish ploy simply to goad you into a repetitive dead-end froth-up of your own making (your sole if unedifying forte, by the way). A briefest survey of the thread appears to indicate that he has done this twice, flicking his goad across your febrile ego and haughty exactitude as in, "no-one has been saying the prison disturbance has not been a riot", which remark leaves you personally disarmed and your captious arguing effectively unmanned.

Tony, does a lot of this sort of this "finessing", too. Why? Because he recognsises a pathologically vehement susceptible who permits his innate intelligence to be subverted and controlled by a psyche that demands his unfortunate control-complusions be satisfied no matter what and, what's more, without compromise. So, the more categorically and vehemently you try to dominate and cow others, the more you can expect to be played.
James Christophers
2021-01-09 03:34:57 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 08 Jan 2021 16:10:33 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 07 Jan 2021 23:52:40 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 07 Jan 2021 19:29:23 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Removed for brevity.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Thus the sum total of your zero-content pointlessness in this segment of
the
thread, at which point the segment has talked itself out, so I leave it
to
you
to continue barking at the moon if that's what makes yer donkey bray.
So Keith Warren follows his pet dog and is the first in this sub thread
to
be
abusive.
Which you have not identified, but instead follow your unsupported
opinion with abuse of your own below . . .
I have abused nobody in this thread. Perhaps you could provide a cite for that
unfounded accusation.
Where did you think "below" referred to?
You tell me.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
His pet dog is clear to most here.
You are a riot at times, Tony! Did you really think your deliberate
snipping (nothing to do with brevity) would be missed by readers? Your
dishonesty, lack of personal perception and narrow-minded intolerance
You know that what was snipped has nothing to do with your deliberate refusal
to acceprt that you incorrectly identified a riot as merely a protest.
On a point of fact, where in this thread has Rich or anyone else "refused" - in terms - to accept it was a riot? If such a declaration appears in this thread, then kindly cite it if only for the conclusive staisfaction of all concerned. Seems fair and reasonable to me.
Yet again these exchanges have gone the way of countless others in which you must needs try to dominate the discourse from the outset by forcing your lordly self-opinionation and recalcitrance on others, most of it, mark you, sans supporting material, which leaves you with litttle support or leverage. And it's not as if you have not been sagely advised on this habitual lacuna of yours by another party.
On this occasion the more perceptive will have noted that Rich has, I think, deliberately gone out of his way to evade a word you would have him kneel to - this being a puckish ploy simply to goad you into a repetitive dead-end froth-up of your own making (your sole if unedifying forte, by the way). A briefest survey of the thread appears to indicate that he has done this twice, flicking his goad across your febrile ego and haughty exactitude as in, "no-one has been saying the prison disturbance has not been a riot", which remark leaves you personally disarmed and your captious arguing effectively unmanned.
Rich does a lot of this sort of this "finessing", too. Why? Because he recognsises a pathologically vehement susceptible who permits his innate intelligence to be subverted and controlled by a psyche that demands his unfortunate control-complusions be satisfied no matter what and, what's more, without compromise. So, the more categorically and vehemently you try to dominate and cow others, the more you can expect to be played.
Tony
2021-01-09 04:39:05 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 08 Jan 2021 16:10:33 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 07 Jan 2021 23:52:40 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 07 Jan 2021 19:29:23 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Removed for brevity.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Thus the sum total of your zero-content pointlessness in this
segment of
the
thread, at which point the segment has talked itself out, so I leave it
to
you
to continue barking at the moon if that's what makes yer donkey bray.
So Keith Warren follows his pet dog and is the first in this sub thread
to
be
abusive.
Which you have not identified, but instead follow your unsupported
opinion with abuse of your own below . . .
I have abused nobody in this thread. Perhaps you could provide a cite
for
that
unfounded accusation.
Where did you think "below" referred to?
You tell me.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
His pet dog is clear to most here.
You are a riot at times, Tony! Did you really think your deliberate
snipping (nothing to do with brevity) would be missed by readers? Your
dishonesty, lack of personal perception and narrow-minded intolerance
You know that what was snipped has nothing to do with your deliberate refusal
to acceprt that you incorrectly identified a riot as merely a protest.
Removed more abuse from Keith, inverted snob, Warren. AKA several equally silly
personas.
Rich and Keith indulging in their tag teaming fantasies. Clearly some sort of
compensatory behaviour - how sad.
Rich80105
2021-01-09 04:57:17 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Fri, 8 Jan 2021 19:34:57 -0800 (PST), James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 08 Jan 2021 16:10:33 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 07 Jan 2021 23:52:40 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 07 Jan 2021 19:29:23 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Removed for brevity.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Thus the sum total of your zero-content pointlessness in this segment of
the
thread, at which point the segment has talked itself out, so I leave it
to
you
to continue barking at the moon if that's what makes yer donkey bray.
So Keith Warren follows his pet dog and is the first in this sub thread
to
be
abusive.
Which you have not identified, but instead follow your unsupported
opinion with abuse of your own below . . .
I have abused nobody in this thread. Perhaps you could provide a cite for
that
unfounded accusation.
Where did you think "below" referred to?
You tell me.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
His pet dog is clear to most here.
You are a riot at times, Tony! Did you really think your deliberate
snipping (nothing to do with brevity) would be missed by readers? Your
dishonesty, lack of personal perception and narrow-minded intolerance
You know that what was snipped has nothing to do with your deliberate refusal
to acceprt that you incorrectly identified a riot as merely a protest.
On a point of fact, where in this thread has Rich or anyone else "refused" - in terms - to accept it was a riot? If such a declaration appears in this thread, then kindly cite it if only for the conclusive staisfaction of all concerned. Seems fair and reasonable to me.
Yet again these exchanges have gone the way of countless others in which you must needs try to dominate the discourse from the outset by forcing your lordly self-opinionation and recalcitrance on others, most of it, mark you, sans supporting material, which leaves you with litttle support or leverage. And it's not as if you have not been sagely advised on this habitual lacuna of yours by another party.
On this occasion the more perceptive will have noted that Rich has, I think, deliberately gone out of his way to evade a word you would have him kneel to - this being a puckish ploy simply to goad you into a repetitive dead-end froth-up of your own making (your sole if unedifying forte, by the way). A briefest survey of the thread appears to indicate that he has done this twice, flicking his goad across your febrile ego and haughty exactitude as in, "no-one has been saying the prison disturbance has not been a riot", which remark leaves you personally disarmed and your captious arguing effectively unmanned.
Rich does a lot of this sort of this "finessing", too. Why? Because he recognsises a pathologically vehement susceptible who permits his innate intelligence to be subverted and controlled by a psyche that demands his unfortunate control-complusions be satisfied no matter what and, what's more, without compromise. So, the more categorically and vehemently you try to dominate and cow others, the more you can expect to be played.
I think there are some general issues that come in here as well. I
believe that Kelvin Davis used the expresson "prisoner disorder event"
as a means of removing any doubt that the government and government
agencies had a closed mind to the results of the various
invesitgations now underway. It is obvious that there may well be
criminal charges laid against at least some of the protesting
prisoners; the rule of law suggests that determination of charges, of
guilt and if applicable punishment should be left to the appropriate
authorities. I certainly would not want any charges to be thrown out
or diminished because of pre-conceived expressions from authorities,
or prejudice through scare-mongering. Another linked principle is
respect for others, and a willingness to be open-minded, and to put
the interests of New Zealanders before partisan interests.

While not on the subject of the Waikeria difficulties, the following
article suggests that there are valid reasons to object to 'nasty'
politics, at each of national, local and personal levels :
https://www.auckland.ac.nz/en/news/2021/01/08/anne-salmond-trump-no-aberration.html
Tony
2021-01-09 04:38:16 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 08 Jan 2021 16:10:33 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 07 Jan 2021 23:52:40 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 07 Jan 2021 19:29:23 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Removed for brevity.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Thus the sum total of your zero-content pointlessness in this segment
of
the
thread, at which point the segment has talked itself out, so I leave it
to
you
to continue barking at the moon if that's what makes yer donkey bray.
So Keith Warren follows his pet dog and is the first in this sub thread
to
be
abusive.
Which you have not identified, but instead follow your unsupported
opinion with abuse of your own below . . .
I have abused nobody in this thread. Perhaps you could provide a cite
for
that
unfounded accusation.
Where did you think "below" referred to?
You tell me.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
His pet dog is clear to most here.
You are a riot at times, Tony! Did you really think your deliberate
snipping (nothing to do with brevity) would be missed by readers? Your
dishonesty, lack of personal perception and narrow-minded intolerance
You know that what was snipped has nothing to do with your deliberate refusal
to acceprt that you incorrectly identified a riot as merely a protest.
Removed more abuse from Keith, inverted snob, Warren. AKA several equally silly
personas.
Rich and Keith indulging in their tag teaming fantasies. Clearly some sort of
compensatory behaviour - how sad.
George Black
2021-01-09 19:23:21 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Tony
Removed more abuse from Keith, inverted snob, Warren. AKA several equally silly
personas.
Rich and Keith indulging in their tag teaming fantasies. Clearly some sort of
compensatory behaviour - how sad.
Imagine if they weren't here they'd be taking up spaces that more worthy
and possibly redeemable cases would occupy
Tony
2021-01-09 19:53:56 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by George Black
Post by Tony
Removed more abuse from Keith, inverted snob, Warren. AKA several equally silly
personas.
Rich and Keith indulging in their tag teaming fantasies. Clearly some sort of
compensatory behaviour - how sad.
Imagine if they weren't here they'd be taking up spaces that more worthy
and possibly redeemable cases would occupy
I love their misguided optimism.
Rich80105
2021-01-09 23:42:26 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Sat, 09 Jan 2021 13:53:56 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by George Black
Post by Tony
Removed more abuse from Keith, inverted snob, Warren. AKA several equally silly
personas.
Rich and Keith indulging in their tag teaming fantasies. Clearly some sort of
compensatory behaviour - how sad.
Imagine if they weren't here they'd be taking up spaces that more worthy
and possibly redeemable cases would occupy
Not sure what you mean by that George, but I take it that you are
thankful for the time I ahve taken to make posts to nz.general, which
is of course large enough to take whoever wishes to post.
Post by Tony
I love their misguided optimism.
There is of course a lot to be optimistic about - New Zealand has done
very well over the past rfew uears, but Covid has been a turning point
for many - going hard and fast was the right decision for us, and has
resulted in better lives for us all - more jobs retained, profits
bounced back quicker than expected and to a higher level than
previously for many companies; we understand that our government has
made saving lives a priority (both in relation to Covid and protesting
prisoners), and is now workig on the quality of life and of
opportunity - our health and education systems are being slowly
restored from years of deliberate neglect; and many of us have had a
good and 'normal' Christmas with family and friends. We have a loyal
opposition, who have helpfully announced as their policy issues which
are beng investigated by the government departments - when
announcements have been made it has been helpful for people to see
that these are supported by the National Party. Just recently there
was news that the UK have extended isolation from 10 to 14 days -
scientific evidence was that people needed the longer isolation; it is
hard to understand why others took such silly chances; and of course
we have seen the tragic results.

Still even in those countries who have been managed the worst, there
is still humour:
https://www.datalounge.com/thread/27735609-violent-trump-rioter-shocks-own-testicles-to-death

Thankfully the US Media appears to be starting to do a reasonable job
on spotting jokes, but it is not surprisig that many found the
original story so believable:
https://www.distractify.com/p/did-a-rioter-taser-himself-to-death
https://www.al.com/news/2021/01/alabama-man-1-of-4-people-who-died-during-washington-dc-chaos.html
Tony
2021-01-10 03:36:18 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 09 Jan 2021 13:53:56 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by George Black
Post by Tony
Removed more abuse from Keith, inverted snob, Warren. AKA several equally silly
personas.
Rich and Keith indulging in their tag teaming fantasies. Clearly some sort of
compensatory behaviour - how sad.
Imagine if they weren't here they'd be taking up spaces that more worthy
and possibly redeemable cases would occupy
Not sure what you mean by that George, but I take it that you are
thankful for the time I ahve taken to make posts to nz.general, which
is of course large enough to take whoever wishes to post.
You certainly did not understand what George meant, but went on to impose your
own interpretation anyway.
George will only see your reply because I gave you the opportunity to be read
by him. (Sorry George).
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
I love their misguided optimism.
There is of course a lot to be optimistic about - New Zealand has done
very well over the past rfew uears, but Covid has been a turning point
for many - going hard and fast was the right decision for us, and has
resulted in better lives for us all - more jobs retained, profits
bounced back quicker than expected and to a higher level than
previously for many companies; we understand that our government has
made saving lives a priority (both in relation to Covid and protesting
prisoners), and is now workig on the quality of life and of
opportunity - our health and education systems are being slowly
restored from years of deliberate neglect; and many of us have had a
good and 'normal' Christmas with family and friends. We have a loyal
opposition, who have helpfully announced as their policy issues which
are beng investigated by the government departments - when
announcements have been made it has been helpful for people to see
that these are supported by the National Party. Just recently there
was news that the UK have extended isolation from 10 to 14 days -
scientific evidence was that people needed the longer isolation; it is
hard to understand why others took such silly chances; and of course
we have seen the tragic results.
Still even in those countries who have been managed the worst, there
https://www.datalounge.com/thread/27735609-violent-trump-rioter-shocks-own-testicles-to-death
Thankfully the US Media appears to be starting to do a reasonable job
on spotting jokes, but it is not surprisig that many found the
https://www.distractify.com/p/did-a-rioter-taser-himself-to-death
https://www.al.com/news/2021/01/alabama-man-1-of-4-people-who-died-during-washington-dc-chaos.html
Fascinating again. You have not the slightest idea what was meant by "misguided
optimism".
Maybe someone will explain it to you.
We all hope so.
Rich80105
2021-01-10 04:08:22 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Sat, 09 Jan 2021 21:36:18 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 09 Jan 2021 13:53:56 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by George Black
Post by Tony
Removed more abuse from Keith, inverted snob, Warren. AKA several equally silly
personas.
Rich and Keith indulging in their tag teaming fantasies. Clearly some sort of
compensatory behaviour - how sad.
Imagine if they weren't here they'd be taking up spaces that more worthy
and possibly redeemable cases would occupy
Not sure what you mean by that George, but I take it that you are
thankful for the time I ahve taken to make posts to nz.general, which
is of course large enough to take whoever wishes to post.
You certainly did not understand what George meant, but went on to impose your
own interpretation anyway.
George will only see your reply because I gave you the opportunity to be read
by him. (Sorry George).
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
I love their misguided optimism.
There is of course a lot to be optimistic about - New Zealand has done
very well over the past rfew uears, but Covid has been a turning point
for many - going hard and fast was the right decision for us, and has
resulted in better lives for us all - more jobs retained, profits
bounced back quicker than expected and to a higher level than
previously for many companies; we understand that our government has
made saving lives a priority (both in relation to Covid and protesting
prisoners), and is now workig on the quality of life and of
opportunity - our health and education systems are being slowly
restored from years of deliberate neglect; and many of us have had a
good and 'normal' Christmas with family and friends. We have a loyal
opposition, who have helpfully announced as their policy issues which
are beng investigated by the government departments - when
announcements have been made it has been helpful for people to see
that these are supported by the National Party. Just recently there
was news that the UK have extended isolation from 10 to 14 days -
scientific evidence was that people needed the longer isolation; it is
hard to understand why others took such silly chances; and of course
we have seen the tragic results.
Still even in those countries who have been managed the worst, there
https://www.datalounge.com/thread/27735609-violent-trump-rioter-shocks-own-testicles-to-death
Thankfully the US Media appears to be starting to do a reasonable job
on spotting jokes, but it is not surprisig that many found the
https://www.distractify.com/p/did-a-rioter-taser-himself-to-death
https://www.al.com/news/2021/01/alabama-man-1-of-4-people-who-died-during-washington-dc-chaos.html
Fascinating again. You have not the slightest idea what was meant by "misguided
optimism".
That's easy, Tony. You are misguided, I am optimistic.
Post by Tony
Maybe someone will explain it to you.
We all hope so.
There is no "We" with you, Tony; you have made that clear in the past.
Tony
2021-01-10 04:15:20 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 09 Jan 2021 21:36:18 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 09 Jan 2021 13:53:56 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by George Black
Post by Tony
Removed more abuse from Keith, inverted snob, Warren. AKA several
equally
silly
personas.
Rich and Keith indulging in their tag teaming fantasies. Clearly some
sort
of
compensatory behaviour - how sad.
Imagine if they weren't here they'd be taking up spaces that more worthy
and possibly redeemable cases would occupy
Not sure what you mean by that George, but I take it that you are
thankful for the time I ahve taken to make posts to nz.general, which
is of course large enough to take whoever wishes to post.
You certainly did not understand what George meant, but went on to impose your
own interpretation anyway.
George will only see your reply because I gave you the opportunity to be read
by him. (Sorry George).
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
I love their misguided optimism.
There is of course a lot to be optimistic about - New Zealand has done
very well over the past rfew uears, but Covid has been a turning point
for many - going hard and fast was the right decision for us, and has
resulted in better lives for us all - more jobs retained, profits
bounced back quicker than expected and to a higher level than
previously for many companies; we understand that our government has
made saving lives a priority (both in relation to Covid and protesting
prisoners), and is now workig on the quality of life and of
opportunity - our health and education systems are being slowly
restored from years of deliberate neglect; and many of us have had a
good and 'normal' Christmas with family and friends. We have a loyal
opposition, who have helpfully announced as their policy issues which
are beng investigated by the government departments - when
announcements have been made it has been helpful for people to see
that these are supported by the National Party. Just recently there
was news that the UK have extended isolation from 10 to 14 days -
scientific evidence was that people needed the longer isolation; it is
hard to understand why others took such silly chances; and of course
we have seen the tragic results.
Still even in those countries who have been managed the worst, there
https://www.datalounge.com/thread/27735609-violent-trump-rioter-shocks-own-testicles-to-death
Thankfully the US Media appears to be starting to do a reasonable job
on spotting jokes, but it is not surprisig that many found the
https://www.distractify.com/p/did-a-rioter-taser-himself-to-death
https://www.al.com/news/2021/01/alabama-man-1-of-4-people-who-died-during-washington-dc-chaos.html
Fascinating again. You have not the slightest idea what was meant by "misguided
optimism".
That's easy, Tony. You are misguided, I am optimistic.
You have no idea what I meant. It went whoosh over your head, but that is easy
to achieve.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Maybe someone will explain it to you.
We all hope so.
There is no "We" with you, Tony; you have made that clear in the past.
We are those that do not lie, nor do we defame and nor do we overuse sarcasm,
you are not of us.
Rich80105
2021-01-10 06:41:59 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Sat, 09 Jan 2021 22:15:20 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 09 Jan 2021 21:36:18 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 09 Jan 2021 13:53:56 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by George Black
Post by Tony
Removed more abuse from Keith, inverted snob, Warren. AKA several
equally
silly
personas.
Rich and Keith indulging in their tag teaming fantasies. Clearly some
sort
of
compensatory behaviour - how sad.
Imagine if they weren't here they'd be taking up spaces that more worthy
and possibly redeemable cases would occupy
Not sure what you mean by that George, but I take it that you are
thankful for the time I ahve taken to make posts to nz.general, which
is of course large enough to take whoever wishes to post.
You certainly did not understand what George meant, but went on to impose your
own interpretation anyway.
George will only see your reply because I gave you the opportunity to be read
by him. (Sorry George).
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
I love their misguided optimism.
There is of course a lot to be optimistic about - New Zealand has done
very well over the past rfew uears, but Covid has been a turning point
for many - going hard and fast was the right decision for us, and has
resulted in better lives for us all - more jobs retained, profits
bounced back quicker than expected and to a higher level than
previously for many companies; we understand that our government has
made saving lives a priority (both in relation to Covid and protesting
prisoners), and is now workig on the quality of life and of
opportunity - our health and education systems are being slowly
restored from years of deliberate neglect; and many of us have had a
good and 'normal' Christmas with family and friends. We have a loyal
opposition, who have helpfully announced as their policy issues which
are beng investigated by the government departments - when
announcements have been made it has been helpful for people to see
that these are supported by the National Party. Just recently there
was news that the UK have extended isolation from 10 to 14 days -
scientific evidence was that people needed the longer isolation; it is
hard to understand why others took such silly chances; and of course
we have seen the tragic results.
Still even in those countries who have been managed the worst, there
https://www.datalounge.com/thread/27735609-violent-trump-rioter-shocks-own-testicles-to-death
Thankfully the US Media appears to be starting to do a reasonable job
on spotting jokes, but it is not surprisig that many found the
https://www.distractify.com/p/did-a-rioter-taser-himself-to-death
https://www.al.com/news/2021/01/alabama-man-1-of-4-people-who-died-during-washington-dc-chaos.html
Fascinating again. You have not the slightest idea what was meant by "misguided
optimism".
That's easy, Tony. You are misguided, I am optimistic.
You have no idea what I meant. It went whoosh over your head, but that is easy
to achieve.
You are misguided, Tony. Your sentence above confirms it. There is
nothing more to say.
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Maybe someone will explain it to you.
We all hope so.
There is no "We" with you, Tony; you have made that clear in the past.
We are those that do not lie, nor do we defame and nor do we overuse sarcasm,
you are not of us.
Again, Tony, you are misguided; yours denials that you lie, defame and
overuse sarcasm are wrong; and you have made clear that you regard
your own opinions as being sufficient without support from others -
any reference to "us" in your posts is against the overwhelming
throust of your own statements. There is nothing more that needs or
should be said in this thread, unless you wish to apologise for your
offensive posts.
Tony
2021-01-10 19:14:56 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 09 Jan 2021 22:15:20 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 09 Jan 2021 21:36:18 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 09 Jan 2021 13:53:56 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by George Black
Post by Tony
Removed more abuse from Keith, inverted snob, Warren. AKA several
equally
silly
personas.
Rich and Keith indulging in their tag teaming fantasies. Clearly some
sort
of
compensatory behaviour - how sad.
Imagine if they weren't here they'd be taking up spaces that more worthy
and possibly redeemable cases would occupy
Not sure what you mean by that George, but I take it that you are
thankful for the time I ahve taken to make posts to nz.general, which
is of course large enough to take whoever wishes to post.
You certainly did not understand what George meant, but went on to impose your
own interpretation anyway.
George will only see your reply because I gave you the opportunity to be read
by him. (Sorry George).
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
I love their misguided optimism.
There is of course a lot to be optimistic about - New Zealand has done
very well over the past rfew uears, but Covid has been a turning point
for many - going hard and fast was the right decision for us, and has
resulted in better lives for us all - more jobs retained, profits
bounced back quicker than expected and to a higher level than
previously for many companies; we understand that our government has
made saving lives a priority (both in relation to Covid and protesting
prisoners), and is now workig on the quality of life and of
opportunity - our health and education systems are being slowly
restored from years of deliberate neglect; and many of us have had a
good and 'normal' Christmas with family and friends. We have a loyal
opposition, who have helpfully announced as their policy issues which
are beng investigated by the government departments - when
announcements have been made it has been helpful for people to see
that these are supported by the National Party. Just recently there
was news that the UK have extended isolation from 10 to 14 days -
scientific evidence was that people needed the longer isolation; it is
hard to understand why others took such silly chances; and of course
we have seen the tragic results.
Still even in those countries who have been managed the worst, there
https://www.datalounge.com/thread/27735609-violent-trump-rioter-shocks-own-testicles-to-death
Thankfully the US Media appears to be starting to do a reasonable job
on spotting jokes, but it is not surprisig that many found the
https://www.distractify.com/p/did-a-rioter-taser-himself-to-death
https://www.al.com/news/2021/01/alabama-man-1-of-4-people-who-died-during-washington-dc-chaos.html
Fascinating again. You have not the slightest idea what was meant by "misguided
optimism".
That's easy, Tony. You are misguided, I am optimistic.
You have no idea what I meant. It went whoosh over your head, but that is easy
to achieve.
You are misguided, Tony. Your sentence above confirms it. There is
nothing more to say.
Of course there is nothing more to say. You were wrong - you did not understand
what I wrote, that is clear.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Maybe someone will explain it to you.
We all hope so.
There is no "We" with you, Tony; you have made that clear in the past.
We are those that do not lie, nor do we defame and nor do we overuse sarcasm,
you are not of us.
Again, Tony, you are misguided; yours denials that you lie, defame and
overuse sarcasm are wrong; and you have made clear that you regard
your own opinions as being sufficient without support from others -
any reference to "us" in your posts is against the overwhelming
throust of your own statements. There is nothing more that needs or
should be said in this thread, unless you wish to apologise for your
offensive posts.
I have never sent an offensive post other than in response to one by you (or
perhaps one other), and you cannot provide an example to show otherwise.
Obviously I believe that it is perfectly OK to provide an unsupported opinion
just as you clearly believe tghe same since you are always doing that.
Your childish and deliberate twisting of my words is an example of your
offensive nature.
John Bowes
2021-01-11 00:06:42 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 09 Jan 2021 13:53:56 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by George Black
Post by Tony
Removed more abuse from Keith, inverted snob, Warren. AKA several equally silly
personas.
Rich and Keith indulging in their tag teaming fantasies. Clearly some sort of
compensatory behaviour - how sad.
Imagine if they weren't here they'd be taking up spaces that more worthy
and possibly redeemable cases would occupy
Not sure what you mean by that George, but I take it that you are
thankful for the time I ahve taken to make posts to nz.general, which
is of course large enough to take whoever wishes to post.
Made larger by your persistent practice of repeating lies till people give up in disgust at your pathetic attempts to justify your own lies!
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
I love their misguided optimism.
There is of course a lot to be optimistic about - New Zealand has done
very well over the past rfew uears, but Covid has been a turning point
for many - going hard and fast was the right decision for us, and has
resulted in better lives for us all - more jobs retained, profits
bounced back quicker than expected and to a higher level than
previously for many companies; we understand that our government has
made saving lives a priority (both in relation to Covid and protesting
prisoners), and is now workig on the quality of life and of
opportunity - our health and education systems are being slowly
restored from years of deliberate neglect; and many of us have had a
good and 'normal' Christmas with family and friends. We have a loyal
opposition, who have helpfully announced as their policy issues which
are beng investigated by the government departments - when
announcements have been made it has been helpful for people to see
that these are supported by the National Party. Just recently there
was news that the UK have extended isolation from 10 to 14 days -
scientific evidence was that people needed the longer isolation; it is
hard to understand why others took such silly chances; and of course
we have seen the tragic results.
New Zealand has been failed by the government first foisted on us by Winston Peters. a government that failed in every one of it's own declared major promises; KiwiBuild, mental health, poverty, child poverty!

<Further crap Rich is trying to use to distract from his bullshit that Waikeria was a protest and not a riot snipped>

Rich you are beyond doubt the stupidest lying, Marxist imbecile in New Zealand (not trying to start an international competition here)
John Bowes
2021-01-09 05:21:14 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 08 Jan 2021 16:10:33 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 07 Jan 2021 23:52:40 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 07 Jan 2021 19:29:23 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Removed for brevity.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Thus the sum total of your zero-content pointlessness in this segment of the
thread, at which point the segment has talked itself out, so I leave it to you
to continue barking at the moon if that's what makes yer donkey bray.
So Keith Warren follows his pet dog and is the first in this sub thread to be
abusive.
Which you have not identified, but instead follow your unsupported
opinion with abuse of your own below . . .
I have abused nobody in this thread. Perhaps you could provide a cite for that
unfounded accusation.
Where did you think "below" referred to?
You tell me.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
His pet dog is clear to most here.
You are a riot at times, Tony! Did you really think your deliberate
snipping (nothing to do with brevity) would be missed by readers? Your
dishonesty, lack of personal perception and narrow-minded intolerance
Dishonesty, lack o personal perception and narrow-minded intolerance are symptoms that you and Keith display every day Rich. Once again you are so blind and comprehensionless you can't see your own faults but are quite happy to accuse others of them. Others who don't even come close to the depths you are prepared to sink to to push your bullshit!
John Bowes
2021-01-07 22:54:59 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 06 Jan 2021 19:41:53 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by George Black
Post by John Bowes
More newspeak from Rich and Labour! Now it seems committing arson and
attacking prison officers is "just making trouble"! One of the stupider claims
from both Rich and Labour!
Labour doesn't have the balls or skills to govern!
But but but liebor gave them the vote..
How could the gangs treat them so badly after such a bribe ???
And all that 'fight to the death' talk seems to have disappeared from
the media reports..
It was a riot not a protest
Yes it is and only a person with no moral compass would argue otherwise.
It is clear that it was a protest for at least most of thoe
participating - that is not a moral issue, merely one of accurate
reporting. What they did was however illegal, and prosecutions are
being considered; whether it was a riot is yet another matter; it has
"A riot is a group of 6 or more persons who, acting together, are
using violence against persons or property to the alarm of persons in
the neighbourhood of that group. Every member of a riot is liable to
imprisonment for a term not exceeding 2 years." I am not aware of
anyone arguing that it was not a riot; I suspect prosecutions could
rely on a number of statutes; I'm happy to leave that to the police.
As you should be.
It was a riot by any reasonable definition which precludes it being a protest
longer than the first few hours. It may have been a protest at first but that
is definitely questionable, but once it became a riot it was no longer a
protest.
That is clear.
Here is an example
https://beyond.britannica.com/how-does-the-u-s-government-define-the-difference-between-a-protest-vs-riot
It was never really a protest and you know that deep down. Just read the
remarks by this governments Minister and officials - it is all there.
It's Rich trying to change his stance but because of his lack of comprehension failing as usual.
Tony
2021-01-08 00:12:54 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by John Bowes
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 06 Jan 2021 19:41:53 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by George Black
Post by John Bowes
More newspeak from Rich and Labour! Now it seems committing arson and
attacking prison officers is "just making trouble"! One of the stupider claims
from both Rich and Labour!
Labour doesn't have the balls or skills to govern!
But but but liebor gave them the vote..
How could the gangs treat them so badly after such a bribe ???
And all that 'fight to the death' talk seems to have disappeared from
the media reports..
It was a riot not a protest
Yes it is and only a person with no moral compass would argue otherwise.
It is clear that it was a protest for at least most of thoe
participating - that is not a moral issue, merely one of accurate
reporting. What they did was however illegal, and prosecutions are
being considered; whether it was a riot is yet another matter; it has
"A riot is a group of 6 or more persons who, acting together, are
using violence against persons or property to the alarm of persons in
the neighbourhood of that group. Every member of a riot is liable to
imprisonment for a term not exceeding 2 years." I am not aware of
anyone arguing that it was not a riot; I suspect prosecutions could
rely on a number of statutes; I'm happy to leave that to the police.
As you should be.
It was a riot by any reasonable definition which precludes it being a protest
longer than the first few hours. It may have been a protest at first but that
is definitely questionable, but once it became a riot it was no longer a
protest.
That is clear.
Here is an example
https://beyond.britannica.com/how-does-the-u-s-government-define-the-difference-between-a-protest-vs-riot
It was never really a protest and you know that deep down. Just read the
remarks by this governments Minister and officials - it is all there.
It's Rich trying to change his stance but because of his lack of comprehension
failing as usual.
Ricj dug a hole and is trying to dig himslef out using his well entrenched but
transparent methodology.
George Black
2021-01-08 02:24:57 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Tony
Ricj dug a hole and is trying to dig himslef out using his well entrenched but
transparent methodology.
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/full-video-corrections-minister-kelvin-davis-speaks-after-waikeria-prison-protest

enjoy
Tony
2021-01-08 03:48:17 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by George Black
Post by Tony
Ricj dug a hole and is trying to dig himslef out using his well entrenched but
transparent methodology.
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/full-video-corrections-minister-kelvin-davis-speaks-after-waikeria-prison-protest
enjoy
Thank you George.
I mentioned to Rich that he should look at what the Minister had said but that
just resulted in abuse and more gratuitous nonsense. Ah well, we can only keep
up the work eh?
Rich80105
2021-01-08 05:23:35 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by George Black
Post by Tony
Ricj dug a hole and is trying to dig himslef out using his well entrenched but
transparent methodology.
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/full-video-corrections-minister-kelvin-davis-speaks-after-waikeria-prison-protest
enjoy
That link now shows video of the Washington incident.
Note however the reference to protest in the url above. I gave the url
I was commenting on. Tony and his wannabee cannot admit that most
reports have used the term protest, and none that I have seen refer to
a riot. They also cannot show any post in which I supported the
protestors.

Tony lies.
Tony
2021-01-08 05:55:29 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
Post by George Black
Post by Tony
Ricj dug a hole and is trying to dig himslef out using his well entrenched but
transparent methodology.
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/full-video-corrections-minister-kelvin-davis-speaks-after-waikeria-prison-protest
enjoy
That link now shows video of the Washington incident.
Note however the reference to protest in the url above. I gave the url
I was commenting on. Tony and his wannabee cannot admit that most
reports have used the term protest, and none that I have seen refer to
a riot. They also cannot show any post in which I supported the
protestors.
Tony lies.
You wish, but not so.
It matters not what people like you call it.
What matters is what it was. It was a riot by any defintion youu care to find.
And George has kill filed you. Smart man.
John Bowes
2021-01-06 01:48:54 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Tue, 05 Jan 2021 13:39:44 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sun, 03 Jan 2021 21:55:07 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sun, 03 Jan 2021 13:54:56 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
A successful resolution for a difficult episode.
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/waikeria-prison-protestors-surrender-after-six-day-standoff
Davis spoke well - he did the right thing in letting the experts
handle it; but he also had the sense to allow access to Rawiri
Waititi, who was able to talk to the leaders of the protest and get
them to come down. Good cooperation between the parties.
The incident has highlighted how badly the prison system had
deteriorated under National - Kelvin Davis made a statement back in
2018 recognising many of the problems; sadly events over the last week
will probably make the situation worse before it gets better.
Another lie. The deterioration is at least 20 years old and you know it.
Teh prison has been deteriorating for much longer than 20 years, but
the real problems started with the increase in prison population in
the Key years, the statement by Davis identified the need for change
at Waikeria.
Post by Tony
These people are not protesters they are arsonists and potential
murderers.
And
you know it.
There you go with your political interpretations again . . .
Perhaps you should try to achieve a little balance, Try this as a start.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/123865178/former-inmate-rubbishes-claims-of-poor-conditions-blames-501s-for-role-in-waikeria-prison-unrest
Yes I know he is a convcted criminal but hey, so were the rioters who you
support.
I do not support the actions of the prison protestors, and I believe
the Chief Ombudsman when he says that he had identified last August
that the top level of Waikeria was in extremely poor condition. It has
been reported that some of the protestors had been sent to New Zealand
by Australia, but that does not excuse the poor conditions in which
prinoners were being held. Finding one former inmate to give a
contrary view does not change reality, Tony
I didn't try to change reality. merely offering you a chnace at truth.
One you have rejected once more.
There are two sides to this story but you decided what was correct well before
you knew anything.
Oh and they are not protesters, they are convicted criminals and they conducted
criminal acts at the prison.
The three are not mutually exclusive, Tony, it is possible to be a
convicted criminal or bieng held on remand, to be a protestor or not,
and to have conducted criminal acts at the prison or not. What is
clear is that this thread is about a number of people who were
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/waikeria-prison-protestors-surrender-after-six-day-standoff
I suspect that some have committed further offences; that is being
assessed, but they were clearly protestors.
Post by Tony
There were other avenues available to them which they declined to take, like
employing a lawyer.
Employing a lawyer has not been mentioned as far as I am aware - do
you have a reference? It has been asserted that they did not complain
through other avenues.
Post by Tony
End of debate.
I had not realised you were debating - you appear to just be asserting
unsupported opinions.
You and the silly girl you worship are great at misrepresenting facts Rich! NONE of the PRISONERS were on remand! The so called 'protester' were committing acts of arson and not only refusing to obey authorities but attempting to harm them! Yet you in your typical imbecilic fashion insist on equating rioters with protesters! You and your ilk Rich are not just imbecilic but fucking morronic as well!
John Bowes
2021-01-05 22:20:41 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Sun, 03 Jan 2021 21:55:07 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sun, 03 Jan 2021 13:54:56 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
A successful resolution for a difficult episode.
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/waikeria-prison-protestors-surrender-after-six-day-standoff
Davis spoke well - he did the right thing in letting the experts
handle it; but he also had the sense to allow access to Rawiri
Waititi, who was able to talk to the leaders of the protest and get
them to come down. Good cooperation between the parties.
The incident has highlighted how badly the prison system had
deteriorated under National - Kelvin Davis made a statement back in
2018 recognising many of the problems; sadly events over the last week
will probably make the situation worse before it gets better.
Another lie. The deterioration is at least 20 years old and you know it.
Teh prison has been deteriorating for much longer than 20 years, but
the real problems started with the increase in prison population in
the Key years, the statement by Davis identified the need for change
at Waikeria.
Post by Tony
These people are not protesters they are arsonists and potential murderers. And
you know it.
There you go with your political interpretations again . . .
Perhaps you should try to achieve a little balance, Try this as a start.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/123865178/former-inmate-rubbishes-claims-of-poor-conditions-blames-501s-for-role-in-waikeria-prison-unrest
Yes I know he is a convcted criminal but hey, so were the rioters who you
support.
I do not support the actions of the prison protestors, and I believe
the Chief Ombudsman when he says that he had identified last August
that the top level of Waikeria was in extremely poor condition. It has
been reported that some of the protestors had been sent to New Zealand
by Australia, but that does not excuse the poor conditions in which
prinoners were being held. Finding one former inmate to give a
contrary view does not change reality, Tony
But bullshit from the government mister and PM are perfectly acceptable Rich? Only to a fucking imbecile like you!
John Bowes
2021-01-04 06:06:19 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
A successful resolution for a difficult episode.
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/waikeria-prison-protestors-surrender-after-six-day-standoff
Davis spoke well - he did the right thing in letting the experts
handle it; but he also had the sense to allow access to Rawiri
Waititi, who was able to talk to the leaders of the protest and get
them to come down. Good cooperation between the parties.
The incident has highlighted how badly the prison system had
deteriorated under National - Kelvin Davis made a statement back in
2018 recognising many of the problems; saldy events over the last week
will probably make the situation worse before it gets better.
You post a lie here Rich! National spent at least $81.3 million on upgrades! https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/813-million-prison-safety-and-rehab-upgrades. Plus at least one inmate didn't have a problem with conditions. but guess so typical of you, and Labour, you won't let facts get in the way of your propaganda!
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