Discussion:
The Cost of cancelling the ferry purchases
(too old to reply)
Rich80105
2024-07-11 03:20:17 UTC
Permalink
https://mountaintuihere.substack.com/p/the-kiwirail-interislander-saga-continues

Yet another National / Nicola Willis mistake . . .
Tony
2024-07-11 07:22:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
https://mountaintuihere.substack.com/p/the-kiwirail-interislander-saga-continues
Yet another National / Nicola Willis mistake . . .
Nothing compared to the cost overruns that the last government's error would
have led to if this government had not fixed it.
Rich80105
2024-07-11 11:36:29 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 11 Jul 2024 07:22:55 -0000 (UTC), Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
https://mountaintuihere.substack.com/p/the-kiwirail-interislander-saga-continues
Yet another National / Nicola Willis mistake . . .
Nothing compared to the cost overruns that the last government's error would
have led to if this government had not fixed it.
Would that they had fixed it - they have cost at least $484 million
one just one aspect of it, and still without an order in to replace
the ones already under way. We also do not know about any penalties in
the contract that they cancelled.
Tony
2024-07-11 21:01:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 11 Jul 2024 07:22:55 -0000 (UTC), Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
https://mountaintuihere.substack.com/p/the-kiwirail-interislander-saga-continues
Yet another National / Nicola Willis mistake . . .
Nothing compared to the cost overruns that the last government's error would
have led to if this government had not fixed it.
Would that they had fixed it - they have cost at least $484 million
one just one aspect of it, and still without an order in to replace
the ones already under way. We also do not know about any penalties in
the contract that they cancelled.
If you don't know then we may assume there are none.
The cost due to the incompetence of the last government is at least $3 billion.
No contest with one sixth of that.
Rich80105
2024-07-11 23:06:35 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 11 Jul 2024 21:01:04 -0000 (UTC), Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 11 Jul 2024 07:22:55 -0000 (UTC), Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
https://mountaintuihere.substack.com/p/the-kiwirail-interislander-saga-continues
Yet another National / Nicola Willis mistake . . .
Nothing compared to the cost overruns that the last government's error would
have led to if this government had not fixed it.
Would that they had fixed it - they have cost at least $484 million
one just one aspect of it, and still without an order in to replace
the ones already under way. We also do not know about any penalties in
the contract that they cancelled.
If you don't know then we may assume there are none.
You can assume all you like, but it does not make it true or false. It
just indicates that you are ignorant.
Post by Tony
The cost due to the incompetence of the last government is at least $3 billion.
No contest with one sixth of that.
Do you have any evidence of your unsupported assertion?
Tony
2024-07-11 23:25:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 11 Jul 2024 21:01:04 -0000 (UTC), Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 11 Jul 2024 07:22:55 -0000 (UTC), Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
https://mountaintuihere.substack.com/p/the-kiwirail-interislander-saga-continues
Yet another National / Nicola Willis mistake . . .
Nothing compared to the cost overruns that the last government's error would
have led to if this government had not fixed it.
Would that they had fixed it - they have cost at least $484 million
one just one aspect of it, and still without an order in to replace
the ones already under way. We also do not know about any penalties in
the contract that they cancelled.
If you don't know then we may assume there are none.
You can assume all you like, but it does not make it true or false. It
just indicates that you are ignorant.
My assumptions are exponentially better than your lies.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
The cost due to the incompetence of the last government is at least $3 billion.
No contest with one sixth of that.
Do you have any evidence of your unsupported assertion?
How quickly you ignore recently published facts. The overrun was announced at
more than $3 billion and you know it.
Crash
2024-07-11 23:34:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 11 Jul 2024 21:01:04 -0000 (UTC), Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 11 Jul 2024 07:22:55 -0000 (UTC), Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
https://mountaintuihere.substack.com/p/the-kiwirail-interislander-saga-continues
Yet another National / Nicola Willis mistake . . .
Nothing compared to the cost overruns that the last government's error would
have led to if this government had not fixed it.
Would that they had fixed it - they have cost at least $484 million
one just one aspect of it, and still without an order in to replace
the ones already under way. We also do not know about any penalties in
the contract that they cancelled.
If you don't know then we may assume there are none.
You can assume all you like, but it does not make it true or false. It
just indicates that you are ignorant.
Post by Tony
The cost due to the incompetence of the last government is at least $3 billion.
No contest with one sixth of that.
Do you have any evidence of your unsupported assertion?
I will await Tony's response, but I also observe you ignore the facts
that do not suit your political bias. The cost of IREX would have
increased from $775 million to $3 billion if the government had
approved support to Kiwirail to fund the blowout. Google 'Kiwirail
IREX project' to get multiple links pointing to project detail. On
that basis the write-off of costs to date (as some of those Google
links shows) is small change compared to the amount saved.

Kiwirail have clearly shown with the IREX project in particular and
the Interislander in general that they are not capable of running a
shipping service without government support.
--
Crash McBash
Rich80105
2024-07-12 01:42:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 11 Jul 2024 21:01:04 -0000 (UTC), Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 11 Jul 2024 07:22:55 -0000 (UTC), Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
https://mountaintuihere.substack.com/p/the-kiwirail-interislander-saga-continues
Yet another National / Nicola Willis mistake . . .
Nothing compared to the cost overruns that the last government's error would
have led to if this government had not fixed it.
Would that they had fixed it - they have cost at least $484 million
one just one aspect of it, and still without an order in to replace
the ones already under way. We also do not know about any penalties in
the contract that they cancelled.
If you don't know then we may assume there are none.
You can assume all you like, but it does not make it true or false. It
just indicates that you are ignorant.
Post by Tony
The cost due to the incompetence of the last government is at least $3 billion.
No contest with one sixth of that.
Do you have any evidence of your unsupported assertion?
I will await Tony's response, but I also observe you ignore the facts
that do not suit your political bias. The cost of IREX would have
increased from $775 million to $3 billion if the government had
approved support to Kiwirail to fund the blowout.
Did they approve that increase?

There were two linked projects - one was to purchase two new ships,
needed as the existing ships are nearing end of life as has been
adequately demonstrated. A second related project is the berths at
each end - needed to cope with increases in usage (current and
future), but also to allow for seismic risks - more clear following
the Kaikoura earthquakes, and also at the Wellington end efficiencies
with the port to allow for increasing cruise ships as well as seismic
concerns.

Most of the loss incurred by the new Government (at least so far) has
been through Willis canceling the order for two ships; I do not recall
seeing any advice regarding that cancellation . . .

Most major projects are presented on the basis of current costs, and
it is expected that future budgets will need to allow for cost
inflation and adjustments to allow for unforeseen issues. Most will be
aware of the cost increases that affected the Kapiti Expressway for
example. We have yet to see analysis of increases to the State Highway
1 Cook Strait terminals project(s).
Post by Crash
Google 'Kiwirail
IREX project' to get multiple links pointing to project detail. On
that basis the write-off of costs to date (as some of those Google
links shows) is small change compared to the amount saved.
Kiwirail have clearly shown with the IREX project in particular and
the Interislander in general that they are not capable of running a
shipping service without government support.
Crash
2024-07-12 02:54:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 11 Jul 2024 21:01:04 -0000 (UTC), Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 11 Jul 2024 07:22:55 -0000 (UTC), Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
https://mountaintuihere.substack.com/p/the-kiwirail-interislander-saga-continues
Yet another National / Nicola Willis mistake . . .
Nothing compared to the cost overruns that the last government's error would
have led to if this government had not fixed it.
Would that they had fixed it - they have cost at least $484 million
one just one aspect of it, and still without an order in to replace
the ones already under way. We also do not know about any penalties in
the contract that they cancelled.
If you don't know then we may assume there are none.
You can assume all you like, but it does not make it true or false. It
just indicates that you are ignorant.
Post by Tony
The cost due to the incompetence of the last government is at least $3 billion.
No contest with one sixth of that.
Do you have any evidence of your unsupported assertion?
I will await Tony's response, but I also observe you ignore the facts
that do not suit your political bias. The cost of IREX would have
increased from $775 million to $3 billion if the government had
approved support to Kiwirail to fund the blowout.
Did they approve that increase?
Read my previous post.
Post by Rich80105
There were two linked projects - one was to purchase two new ships,
needed as the existing ships are nearing end of life as has been
adequately demonstrated. A second related project is the berths at
each end - needed to cope with increases in usage (current and
future), but also to allow for seismic risks - more clear following
the Kaikoura earthquakes, and also at the Wellington end efficiencies
with the port to allow for increasing cruise ships as well as seismic
concerns.
Come back to me when you have read up on Project IREX.

There is a Treasury report available that clearly explains this -
available through a simple Google search (I am sure other search
engines may well yield the same results).
Post by Rich80105
Most of the loss incurred by the new Government (at least so far) has
been through Willis canceling the order for two ships; I do not recall
seeing any advice regarding that cancellation . . .
I don't recall seeing it either, but a simple Google search revealed a
link to a Cabinet paper on Project IREX.
Post by Rich80105
Most major projects are presented on the basis of current costs, and
it is expected that future budgets will need to allow for cost
inflation and adjustments to allow for unforeseen issues. Most will be
aware of the cost increases that affected the Kapiti Expressway for
example. We have yet to see analysis of increases to the State Highway
1 Cook Strait terminals project(s).
So what is your point? Project IREX was estimated to cost more than 4
times the original estimate and the government declined to support it.
Kiwirail clearly could not find anyone else willing to step in. What
a surprise.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Crash
Google 'Kiwirail
IREX project' to get multiple links pointing to project detail. On
that basis the write-off of costs to date (as some of those Google
links shows) is small change compared to the amount saved.
Kiwirail have clearly shown with the IREX project in particular and
the Interislander in general that they are not capable of running a
shipping service without government support.
The fact remains that the replacement ferries ordered could not be
berthed at existing ports (let alone existing ferry ports). Any port
upgrades included in Project IREX that were not directly related to
new berthing facilities required by the new ferries will most likely
be done with other projects.
--
Crash McBash
Lawrence D'Oliveiro
2024-07-16 01:20:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony
The cost due to the incompetence of the last government is at least $3 billion.
Are we still blaming the previous Government for the costs being racked up
by this one?

How very ... Trump-like ...
Tony
2024-07-16 02:46:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Post by Tony
The cost due to the incompetence of the last government is at least $3 billion.
Are we still blaming the previous Government for the costs being racked up
by this one?
No, for their own incompetence for 3 years before the last election.
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
How very ... Trump-like ...
Indeed, that government was very Trump like. Thank goodness this one is not.
Lawrence D'Oliveiro
2024-07-16 02:48:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Are we still blaming the previous Government for the costs being racked
up by this one?
No, for their own incompetence for 3 years before the last election.
Wow, 3 years’ worth of incompetence in just 9 months??
Tony
2024-07-16 07:17:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Are we still blaming the previous Government for the costs being racked
up by this one?
No, for their own incompetence for 3 years before the last election.
Wow, 3 years’ worth of incompetence in just 9 months??
Lawrence the word "previous" is a descriptive one meaning before the current
government (in this context). Most English speakers understand that words
describing nouns are called adjectives.
The word "their" in my last sentence above clearly refers to the previous
government (see above). Another simple use of English.

Have you been taking English lessons from Rich?
Lawrence D'Oliveiro
2024-07-17 01:29:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Post by Tony
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Are we still blaming the previous Government for the costs being
racked up by this one?
No, for their own incompetence for 3 years before the last election.
Wow, 3 years’ worth of incompetence in just 9 months??
Lawrence the word "previous" is a descriptive one meaning before the
current government (in this context).
You did say “no, for their own incompetence” where I said “blaming the
previous Government”, did you not?
Tony
2024-07-17 03:31:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Are we still blaming the previous Government for the costs being
racked up by this one?
No, for their own incompetence for 3 years before the last election.
Wow, 3 years’ worth of incompetence in just 9 months??
Lawrence the word "previous" is a descriptive one meaning before the
current government (in this context).
You did say “no, for their own incompetence” where I said “blaming the
previous Government”, did you not?
Irrelevant - you clearly do not understand English syntax.
Lawrence D'Oliveiro
2024-08-03 01:22:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Post by Tony
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Post by Tony
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Are we still blaming the previous Government for the costs being
racked up by this one?
No, for their own incompetence for 3 years before the last election.
Wow, 3 years’ worth of incompetence in just 9 months??
Lawrence the word "previous" is a descriptive one meaning before the
current government (in this context).
You did say “no, for their own incompetence” where I said “blaming the
previous Government”, did you not?
Irrelevant - you clearly do not understand English syntax.
Did you ever pass those comprehension exercises in school?
Tony
2024-08-03 08:00:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Post by Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Are we still blaming the previous Government for the costs being
racked up by this one?
No, for their own incompetence for 3 years before the last election.
Wow, 3 years’ worth of incompetence in just 9 months??
Lawrence the word "previous" is a descriptive one meaning before the
current government (in this context).
You did say “no, for their own incompetence” where I said “blaming the
previous Government”, did you not?
Irrelevant - you clearly do not understand English syntax.
Did you ever pass those comprehension exercises in school?
Yes, unlike you.

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