Discussion:
A slight glitch in EV uptake
(too old to reply)
Gordon
2024-07-29 22:37:22 UTC
Permalink
https://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/350359217/toyotas-baby-roader-set-production-no-longer-electric

This is one of many articles pointing out that the EV surge is melting away
as the reality sets in. We are getting to the stage of just about the market
turning on the peak before it powers down the far side.

As pointed out in the article Toyota has had a dollar each way and has not
enagaged with the EV is green way to go.

The other point of significance is that Stuff has published this article.
Rich80105
2024-07-30 05:44:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gordon
https://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/350359217/toyotas-baby-roader-set-production-no-longer-electric
This is one of many articles pointing out that the EV surge is melting away
as the reality sets in. We are getting to the stage of just about the market
turning on the peak before it powers down the far side.
As pointed out in the article Toyota has had a dollar each way and has not
enagaged with the EV is green way to go.
The other point of significance is that Stuff has published this article.
Toyota was one of the leaders in adopting hybrid technology, and
appears to be slow to move to just electric. It does not mean that
electric vehicle take-up is changing; there are other reasons for the
sudden decline in EVs being purchased in New Zealand.
Tony
2024-07-30 09:16:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
Post by Gordon
https://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/350359217/toyotas-baby-roader-set-production-no-longer-electric
This is one of many articles pointing out that the EV surge is melting away
as the reality sets in. We are getting to the stage of just about the market
turning on the peak before it powers down the far side.
As pointed out in the article Toyota has had a dollar each way and has not
enagaged with the EV is green way to go.
The other point of significance is that Stuff has published this article.
Toyota was one of the leaders in adopting hybrid technology, and
appears to be slow to move to just electric. It does not mean that
electric vehicle take-up is changing; there are other reasons for the
sudden decline in EVs being purchased in New Zealand.
What for instance?
Gordon
2024-07-31 03:13:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
Post by Gordon
https://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/350359217/toyotas-baby-roader-set-production-no-longer-electric
This is one of many articles pointing out that the EV surge is melting away
as the reality sets in. We are getting to the stage of just about the market
turning on the peak before it powers down the far side.
As pointed out in the article Toyota has had a dollar each way and has not
enagaged with the EV is green way to go.
The other point of significance is that Stuff has published this article.
Toyota was one of the leaders in adopting hybrid technology, and
appears to be slow to move to just electric. It does not mean that
electric vehicle take-up is changing; there are other reasons for the
sudden decline in EVs being purchased in New Zealand.
And also elsewhere on the planet.

The point I was making is that the manufacturer (Toyota) in this case has
cancelled the electric version, this is caused by the demand having fallen
way off. If EVs were selling like hot cakes no manufacturer would stop
manufacturing them.
David Goodwin
2024-07-31 02:05:41 UTC
Permalink
In article <***@mid.individual.net>, ***@leaf.net.nz
says...
Post by Gordon
https://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/350359217/toyotas-baby-roader-set-production-no-longer-electric
This is one of many articles pointing out that the EV surge is melting away
as the reality sets in. We are getting to the stage of just about the market
turning on the peak before it powers down the far side.
As pointed out in the article Toyota has had a dollar each way and has not
enagaged with the EV is green way to go.
The other point of significance is that Stuff has published this article.
The fact Toyota isn't building an EV is hardly newsworthy - they've been
avoiding doing EVs for as long as EVs have been a thing, instead
preferring to waste time and money on Hydrogen. So I wouldn't take this
as sign that the EV surge is melting away - its just Toyota being
Toyota.
Tony
2024-07-31 03:20:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Goodwin
says...
Post by Gordon
https://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/350359217/toyotas-baby-roader-set-production-no-longer-electric
This is one of many articles pointing out that the EV surge is melting away
as the reality sets in. We are getting to the stage of just about the market
turning on the peak before it powers down the far side.
As pointed out in the article Toyota has had a dollar each way and has not
enagaged with the EV is green way to go.
The other point of significance is that Stuff has published this article.
The fact Toyota isn't building an EV is hardly newsworthy - they've been
avoiding doing EVs for as long as EVs have been a thing, instead
preferring to waste time and money on Hydrogen. So I wouldn't take this
as sign that the EV surge is melting away - its just Toyota being
Toyota.
Have you ever considered that Toyota might be well ahead of the rest of the
world, or is your mind closed to that possibility.
Rich80105
2024-07-31 06:05:05 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 31 Jul 2024 03:20:21 -0000 (UTC), Tony
Post by Tony
Post by David Goodwin
says...
Post by Gordon
https://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/350359217/toyotas-baby-roader-set-production-no-longer-electric
This is one of many articles pointing out that the EV surge is melting away
as the reality sets in. We are getting to the stage of just about the market
turning on the peak before it powers down the far side.
As pointed out in the article Toyota has had a dollar each way and has not
enagaged with the EV is green way to go.
The other point of significance is that Stuff has published this article.
The fact Toyota isn't building an EV is hardly newsworthy - they've been
avoiding doing EVs for as long as EVs have been a thing, instead
preferring to waste time and money on Hydrogen. So I wouldn't take this
as sign that the EV surge is melting away - its just Toyota being
Toyota.
Have you ever considered that Toyota might be well ahead of the rest of the
world, or is your mind closed to that possibility.
The decision of Toyota in respect of one new vehicle is hardly
indicative of a trend for even that company, let alone the whole
industry. The article did not suggest any such consideration - you
appear to be getting off track again, Tony
Tony
2024-07-31 07:04:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 31 Jul 2024 03:20:21 -0000 (UTC), Tony
Post by Tony
Post by David Goodwin
says...
Post by Gordon
https://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/350359217/toyotas-baby-roader-set-production-no-longer-electric
This is one of many articles pointing out that the EV surge is melting away
as the reality sets in. We are getting to the stage of just about the market
turning on the peak before it powers down the far side.
As pointed out in the article Toyota has had a dollar each way and has not
enagaged with the EV is green way to go.
The other point of significance is that Stuff has published this article.
The fact Toyota isn't building an EV is hardly newsworthy - they've been
avoiding doing EVs for as long as EVs have been a thing, instead
preferring to waste time and money on Hydrogen. So I wouldn't take this
as sign that the EV surge is melting away - its just Toyota being
Toyota.
Have you ever considered that Toyota might be well ahead of the rest of the
world, or is your mind closed to that possibility.
The decision of Toyota in respect of one new vehicle is hardly
indicative of a trend for even that company, let alone the whole
industry. The article did not suggest any such consideration - you
appear to be getting off track again, Tony
Only to you, my question was on-track, pertinent and well beyond your ken.
Rich80105
2024-07-31 21:00:08 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 31 Jul 2024 07:04:00 -0000 (UTC), Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 31 Jul 2024 03:20:21 -0000 (UTC), Tony
Post by Tony
Post by David Goodwin
says...
Post by Gordon
https://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/350359217/toyotas-baby-roader-set-production-no-longer-electric
This is one of many articles pointing out that the EV surge is melting away
as the reality sets in. We are getting to the stage of just about the market
turning on the peak before it powers down the far side.
As pointed out in the article Toyota has had a dollar each way and has not
enagaged with the EV is green way to go.
The other point of significance is that Stuff has published this article.
The fact Toyota isn't building an EV is hardly newsworthy - they've been
avoiding doing EVs for as long as EVs have been a thing, instead
preferring to waste time and money on Hydrogen. So I wouldn't take this
as sign that the EV surge is melting away - its just Toyota being
Toyota.
Have you ever considered that Toyota might be well ahead of the rest of the
world, or is your mind closed to that possibility.
The decision of Toyota in respect of one new vehicle is hardly
indicative of a trend for even that company, let alone the whole
industry. The article did not suggest any such consideration - you
appear to be getting off track again, Tony
Only to you, my question was on-track, pertinent and well beyond your ken.
Insults is all you have, Tony, the reality is that EVs and Hybrids are
gaining in popularity worldwide. NZ still has too few charging
stations; and recent government actions caused one supplier to move
its focus to Australia where they are able to install many more than
here where the demand has dried up. Governments do make a difference,
and in this case it is in the interests of their donors rather than
New Zealanders.
Tony
2024-08-01 00:38:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 31 Jul 2024 07:04:00 -0000 (UTC), Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 31 Jul 2024 03:20:21 -0000 (UTC), Tony
Post by Tony
Post by David Goodwin
says...
Post by Gordon
https://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/350359217/toyotas-baby-roader-set-production-no-longer-electric
This is one of many articles pointing out that the EV surge is melting away
as the reality sets in. We are getting to the stage of just about the market
turning on the peak before it powers down the far side.
As pointed out in the article Toyota has had a dollar each way and has not
enagaged with the EV is green way to go.
The other point of significance is that Stuff has published this article.
The fact Toyota isn't building an EV is hardly newsworthy - they've been
avoiding doing EVs for as long as EVs have been a thing, instead
preferring to waste time and money on Hydrogen. So I wouldn't take this
as sign that the EV surge is melting away - its just Toyota being
Toyota.
Have you ever considered that Toyota might be well ahead of the rest of the
world, or is your mind closed to that possibility.
The decision of Toyota in respect of one new vehicle is hardly
indicative of a trend for even that company, let alone the whole
industry. The article did not suggest any such consideration - you
appear to be getting off track again, Tony
Only to you, my question was on-track, pertinent and well beyond your ken.
Insults is all you have, Tony, the reality is that EVs and Hybrids are
gaining in popularity worldwide. NZ still has too few charging
stations; and recent government actions caused one supplier to move
its focus to Australia where they are able to install many more than
here where the demand has dried up. Governments do make a difference,
and in this case it is in the interests of their donors rather than
New Zealanders.
I did not insult you, I told the truth. You are deluded.
However, you have provided no rebuttal for the OP. Not unusual however is it?
David Goodwin
2024-08-01 04:05:04 UTC
Permalink
In article <part1of1.1.uQ92rScDQB#***@ue.ph>, ***@orcon.net.nz
says...
Post by Tony
Post by David Goodwin
says...
Post by Gordon
https://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/350359217/toyotas-baby-roader-set-production-no-longer-electric
This is one of many articles pointing out that the EV surge is melting away
as the reality sets in. We are getting to the stage of just about the market
turning on the peak before it powers down the far side.
As pointed out in the article Toyota has had a dollar each way and has not
enagaged with the EV is green way to go.
The other point of significance is that Stuff has published this article.
The fact Toyota isn't building an EV is hardly newsworthy - they've been
avoiding doing EVs for as long as EVs have been a thing, instead
preferring to waste time and money on Hydrogen. So I wouldn't take this
as sign that the EV surge is melting away - its just Toyota being
Toyota.
Have you ever considered that Toyota might be well ahead of the rest of the
world, or is your mind closed to that possibility.
It is impossible for a Fuel Cell Electric Vehicle to be as efficient as
or cheaper to operate than a Battery Electric Vehicle thanks to all the
work and energy required to make and transport the hydrogen, work that
simply doesn't need to be done if you skip hydrogen and use the
electricity directly.

FCEVs are just BEVs with a bunch of pointless extra steps that do
nothing but drastically reduce efficiency, increase operating costs and
increase purchase costs for no benefit. For light vehicles its a
complete waste of time and money and that will never change.

So no, Toyota isn't ahead of the rest of the world. They're far behind,
acting as though battery technology hasn't improved in the last 20
years.
Willy Nilly
2024-08-01 07:44:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Goodwin
It is impossible for a Fuel Cell Electric Vehicle to be as efficient as
or cheaper to operate than a Battery Electric Vehicle thanks to all the
work and energy required to make and transport the hydrogen, work that
simply doesn't need to be done if you skip hydrogen and use the
electricity directly.
We can do even better and cut out the electricity middleman. Look at
https://www.transpower.co.nz/system-operator/live-system-and-market-data/consolidated-live-data
and see that electricity is being generated by gas at 75% of capacity,
and by coal at 82% of capacity. It has been doing this for a solid 2+
months now. Yes, gas and coal are working overtime to supply your EV
with electricity. Much more efficient and environment-saving to use a
petrol-powered ICE car than a coal-powered EV.
David Goodwin
2024-08-01 22:28:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Willy Nilly
Post by David Goodwin
It is impossible for a Fuel Cell Electric Vehicle to be as efficient as
or cheaper to operate than a Battery Electric Vehicle thanks to all the
work and energy required to make and transport the hydrogen, work that
simply doesn't need to be done if you skip hydrogen and use the
electricity directly.
We can do even better and cut out the electricity middleman. Look at
https://www.transpower.co.nz/system-operator/live-system-and-market-data/consolidated-live-data
and see that electricity is being generated by gas at 75% of capacity,
and by coal at 82% of capacity. It has been doing this for a solid 2+
months now. Yes, gas and coal are working overtime to supply your EV
with electricity. Much more efficient and environment-saving to use a
petrol-powered ICE car than a coal-powered EV.
That is in fact not correct at all.

It may surprise you to learn that a massive power plant maintained by an
expert staff and run as efficiently as possible to maximise profit is
*more* efficient than a little engine that at best gets serviced once or
twice a year and spends most of its time being operated inefficiently.

A coal powered EV produces less emissions than your typical combustion
engined car.
Willy Nilly
2024-08-02 02:53:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Goodwin
Post by Willy Nilly
We can do even better and cut out the electricity middleman. Look at
https://www.transpower.co.nz/system-operator/live-system-and-market-data/consolidated-live-data
and see that electricity is being generated by gas at 75% of capacity,
and by coal at 82% of capacity. It has been doing this for a solid 2+
months now. Yes, gas and coal are working overtime to supply your EV
with electricity. Much more efficient and environment-saving to use a
petrol-powered ICE car than a coal-powered EV.
That is in fact not correct at all.
It may surprise you to learn that a massive power plant maintained by an
expert staff and run as efficiently as possible to maximise profit is
*more* efficient than a little engine that at best gets serviced once or
twice a year and spends most of its time being operated inefficiently.
A coal powered EV produces less emissions than your typical combustion
engined car.
I give you credit for biting the bullet. But still you sloganeer
(i.e., you assume the conclusion), and it would be interesting to
quantify the comparison. Remember that electricity transmission is
not lossless, it may be as low as 50% efficiency from generation to
consumption.
Willy Nilly
2024-08-03 07:42:02 UTC
Permalink
Also it's important to note that an EV weighs about 50% more than an
ICE car, so needs to do 50% more work to get from points A to B. This
aspect is usually ignored in comparisons -- the inefficiency of having
to carry that very heavy battery around with you wherever you go.
Post by Willy Nilly
Post by David Goodwin
Post by Willy Nilly
We can do even better and cut out the electricity middleman. Look at
https://www.transpower.co.nz/system-operator/live-system-and-market-data/consolidated-live-data
and see that electricity is being generated by gas at 75% of capacity,
and by coal at 82% of capacity. It has been doing this for a solid 2+
months now. Yes, gas and coal are working overtime to supply your EV
with electricity. Much more efficient and environment-saving to use a
petrol-powered ICE car than a coal-powered EV.
That is in fact not correct at all.
It may surprise you to learn that a massive power plant maintained by an
expert staff and run as efficiently as possible to maximise profit is
*more* efficient than a little engine that at best gets serviced once or
twice a year and spends most of its time being operated inefficiently.
A coal powered EV produces less emissions than your typical combustion
engined car.
I give you credit for biting the bullet. But still you sloganeer
(i.e., you assume the conclusion), and it would be interesting to
quantify the comparison. Remember that electricity transmission is
not lossless, it may be as low as 50% efficiency from generation to
consumption.
David Goodwin
2024-08-03 21:44:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Willy Nilly
Also it's important to note that an EV weighs about 50% more than an
ICE car, so needs to do 50% more work to get from points A to B. This
aspect is usually ignored in comparisons -- the inefficiency of having
to carry that very heavy battery around with you wherever you go.
Post by Willy Nilly
Post by David Goodwin
Post by Willy Nilly
We can do even better and cut out the electricity middleman. Look at
https://www.transpower.co.nz/system-operator/live-system-and-market-data/consolidated-live-data
and see that electricity is being generated by gas at 75% of capacity,
and by coal at 82% of capacity. It has been doing this for a solid 2+
months now. Yes, gas and coal are working overtime to supply your EV
with electricity. Much more efficient and environment-saving to use a
petrol-powered ICE car than a coal-powered EV.
That is in fact not correct at all.
It may surprise you to learn that a massive power plant maintained by an
expert staff and run as efficiently as possible to maximise profit is
*more* efficient than a little engine that at best gets serviced once or
twice a year and spends most of its time being operated inefficiently.
A coal powered EV produces less emissions than your typical combustion
engined car.
I give you credit for biting the bullet. But still you sloganeer
(i.e., you assume the conclusion), and it would be interesting to
quantify the comparison. Remember that electricity transmission is
not lossless, it may be as low as 50% efficiency from generation to
consumption.
Combustion engined cars are maybe 30% efficient. EVs are around 75%
efficient.

I couldn't find any sources, reputable or otherwise, claiming the grid
looses half the power generated. The worst number I could find was 34%,
but most numbers given were less than half that.

But if we're going to consider losses to the power grid in recharging an
EV then we should probably also consider all the energy wasted in
finding, extracting, refining, and shipping fuel to your local petrol
station. While I'm sure this whole process is about as efficient as it
can be, I doubt it its nearly enough to overcome the substantial
inefficiency of the ICE car the final product ends up going in to.

As for weight, EVs are not 50% heavier. The true number seems to be
closer to 30% - not enough to materially affect the final outcome thanks
to ICE vehicles efficiency being just that bad. But it (and purchase
price) is a reason to not buy a larger EV battery than you actually
need.

How the electricity is generated *does* have an effect on how clean an
EV is to operate, but this is one of is strengths - not a weakness. Even
with the dirtiest power generation, an EV is still the cleanest option.
And as the power grid becomes less polluting so does every single EV on
the road without the individual owners having to do anything.
BR
2024-08-02 06:18:04 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 2 Aug 2024 10:28:19 +1200, David Goodwin
Post by David Goodwin
It may surprise you to learn that a massive power plant maintained by an
expert staff and run as efficiently as possible to maximise profit is
*more* efficient than a little engine that at best gets serviced once or
twice a year and spends most of its time being operated inefficiently.
A coal powered EV produces less emissions than your typical combustion
engined car.
None of this matters. Coal is cheap and plentiful. Emissions are
irrelevant. Man made climate change is a fraud.

Bill.
--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com
Rich80105
2024-08-02 10:48:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by BR
On Fri, 2 Aug 2024 10:28:19 +1200, David Goodwin
Post by David Goodwin
It may surprise you to learn that a massive power plant maintained by an
expert staff and run as efficiently as possible to maximise profit is
*more* efficient than a little engine that at best gets serviced once or
twice a year and spends most of its time being operated inefficiently.
A coal powered EV produces less emissions than your typical combustion
engined car.
None of this matters. Coal is cheap and plentiful. Emissions are
irrelevant. Man made climate change is a fraud.
Bill.
Coal is neither cheap or plentiful. Emissions are relevant - for a
variety of reasons, but including the cost of meeting international
commitments. There are reasons why most city rail links use electric
power for example, and why the number of EV busses is increasing..
Tony
2024-08-02 20:09:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
Post by BR
On Fri, 2 Aug 2024 10:28:19 +1200, David Goodwin
Post by David Goodwin
It may surprise you to learn that a massive power plant maintained by an
expert staff and run as efficiently as possible to maximise profit is
*more* efficient than a little engine that at best gets serviced once or
twice a year and spends most of its time being operated inefficiently.
A coal powered EV produces less emissions than your typical combustion
engined car.
None of this matters. Coal is cheap and plentiful. Emissions are
irrelevant. Man made climate change is a fraud.
Bill.
Coal is neither cheap or plentiful.
Incorrect. It is both.
Post by Rich80105
Emissions are relevant - for a
variety of reasons, but including the cost of meeting international
commitments.
There are none.
Post by Rich80105
There are reasons why most city rail links use electric
power for example, and why the number of EV busses is increasing..
Those reasons being?
Mutley
2024-08-03 01:45:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
Post by BR
On Fri, 2 Aug 2024 10:28:19 +1200, David Goodwin
Post by David Goodwin
It may surprise you to learn that a massive power plant maintained by an
expert staff and run as efficiently as possible to maximise profit is
*more* efficient than a little engine that at best gets serviced once or
twice a year and spends most of its time being operated inefficiently.
A coal powered EV produces less emissions than your typical combustion
engined car.
None of this matters. Coal is cheap and plentiful. Emissions are
irrelevant. Man made climate change is a fraud.
Bill.
Coal is neither cheap or plentiful. Emissions are relevant - for a
variety of reasons, but including the cost of meeting international
commitments. There are reasons why most city rail links use electric
power for example, and why the number of EV busses is increasing..
There's plenty of coal in NZ so what are you talking about. There's a
whole mine full right besides the Huntly power station but we import
the crappy stuff from Indonesia.
Rich80105
2024-08-03 04:38:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mutley
Post by Rich80105
Post by BR
On Fri, 2 Aug 2024 10:28:19 +1200, David Goodwin
Post by David Goodwin
It may surprise you to learn that a massive power plant maintained by an
expert staff and run as efficiently as possible to maximise profit is
*more* efficient than a little engine that at best gets serviced once or
twice a year and spends most of its time being operated inefficiently.
A coal powered EV produces less emissions than your typical combustion
engined car.
None of this matters. Coal is cheap and plentiful. Emissions are
irrelevant. Man made climate change is a fraud.
Bill.
Coal is neither cheap or plentiful. Emissions are relevant - for a
variety of reasons, but including the cost of meeting international
commitments. There are reasons why most city rail links use electric
power for example, and why the number of EV busses is increasing..
There's plenty of coal in NZ so what are you talking about. There's a
whole mine full right besides the Huntly power station but we import
the crappy stuff from Indonesia.
Do you have a reference for that assertion, Mutley? My understanding
is the imported coal gives better results overall as the coal from NZ
Mines does not produce as good results as the imported coal.
Tony
2024-08-03 07:49:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
Post by Mutley
Post by Rich80105
Post by BR
On Fri, 2 Aug 2024 10:28:19 +1200, David Goodwin
Post by David Goodwin
It may surprise you to learn that a massive power plant maintained by an
expert staff and run as efficiently as possible to maximise profit is
*more* efficient than a little engine that at best gets serviced once or
twice a year and spends most of its time being operated inefficiently.
A coal powered EV produces less emissions than your typical combustion
engined car.
None of this matters. Coal is cheap and plentiful. Emissions are
irrelevant. Man made climate change is a fraud.
Bill.
Coal is neither cheap or plentiful. Emissions are relevant - for a
variety of reasons, but including the cost of meeting international
commitments. There are reasons why most city rail links use electric
power for example, and why the number of EV busses is increasing..
There's plenty of coal in NZ so what are you talking about. There's a
whole mine full right besides the Huntly power station but we import
the crappy stuff from Indonesia.
Do you have a reference for that assertion, Mutley? My understanding
is the imported coal gives better results overall as the coal from NZ
Mines does not produce as good results as the imported coal.
Why do you have to use inflamatory language. Look up the meaning of assertion
and perhaps you could moderate your use to good effect - you might, although
unlikely, annoy people less often.
Rich80105
2024-08-04 01:48:18 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 3 Aug 2024 07:49:42 -0000 (UTC), Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Mutley
Post by Rich80105
Post by BR
On Fri, 2 Aug 2024 10:28:19 +1200, David Goodwin
Post by David Goodwin
It may surprise you to learn that a massive power plant maintained by an
expert staff and run as efficiently as possible to maximise profit is
*more* efficient than a little engine that at best gets serviced once or
twice a year and spends most of its time being operated inefficiently.
A coal powered EV produces less emissions than your typical combustion
engined car.
None of this matters. Coal is cheap and plentiful. Emissions are
irrelevant. Man made climate change is a fraud.
Bill.
Coal is neither cheap or plentiful. Emissions are relevant - for a
variety of reasons, but including the cost of meeting international
commitments. There are reasons why most city rail links use electric
power for example, and why the number of EV busses is increasing..
There's plenty of coal in NZ so what are you talking about. There's a
whole mine full right besides the Huntly power station but we import
the crappy stuff from Indonesia.
Do you have a reference for that assertion, Mutley? My understanding
is the imported coal gives better results overall as the coal from NZ
Mines does not produce as good results as the imported coal.
Why do you have to use inflamatory language. Look up the meaning of assertion
and perhaps you could moderate your use to good effect - you might, although
unlikely, annoy people less often.
I did not expect you to have any references to the assertion that
"here's a whole mine full right besides the Huntly power station but
we import the crappy stuff from Indonesia. ", but I also specifically
asked Mutley; nobody ever expects references to your assertions, Tony.
Tony
2024-08-04 04:30:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 3 Aug 2024 07:49:42 -0000 (UTC), Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Mutley
Post by Rich80105
Post by BR
On Fri, 2 Aug 2024 10:28:19 +1200, David Goodwin
Post by David Goodwin
It may surprise you to learn that a massive power plant maintained by an
expert staff and run as efficiently as possible to maximise profit is
*more* efficient than a little engine that at best gets serviced once or
twice a year and spends most of its time being operated inefficiently.
A coal powered EV produces less emissions than your typical combustion
engined car.
None of this matters. Coal is cheap and plentiful. Emissions are
irrelevant. Man made climate change is a fraud.
Bill.
Coal is neither cheap or plentiful. Emissions are relevant - for a
variety of reasons, but including the cost of meeting international
commitments. There are reasons why most city rail links use electric
power for example, and why the number of EV busses is increasing..
There's plenty of coal in NZ so what are you talking about. There's a
whole mine full right besides the Huntly power station but we import
the crappy stuff from Indonesia.
Do you have a reference for that assertion, Mutley? My understanding
is the imported coal gives better results overall as the coal from NZ
Mines does not produce as good results as the imported coal.
Why do you have to use inflamatory language. Look up the meaning of assertion
and perhaps you could moderate your use to good effect - you might, although
unlikely, annoy people less often.
I did not expect you to have any references to the assertion that
"here's a whole mine full right besides the Huntly power station but
we import the crappy stuff from Indonesia. ", but I also specifically
asked Mutley; nobody ever expects references to your assertions, Tony.
You are definitely getting worse, I didn't make that statement and I do not
assume that I know what Mutley is thinking. Time to go back to your
geriatrician.
Mutley
2024-08-05 01:47:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 3 Aug 2024 07:49:42 -0000 (UTC), Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Mutley
Post by Rich80105
Post by BR
On Fri, 2 Aug 2024 10:28:19 +1200, David Goodwin
Post by David Goodwin
It may surprise you to learn that a massive power plant maintained by an
expert staff and run as efficiently as possible to maximise profit is
*more* efficient than a little engine that at best gets serviced once or
twice a year and spends most of its time being operated inefficiently.
A coal powered EV produces less emissions than your typical combustion
engined car.
None of this matters. Coal is cheap and plentiful. Emissions are
irrelevant. Man made climate change is a fraud.
Bill.
Coal is neither cheap or plentiful. Emissions are relevant - for a
variety of reasons, but including the cost of meeting international
commitments. There are reasons why most city rail links use electric
power for example, and why the number of EV busses is increasing..
There's plenty of coal in NZ so what are you talking about. There's a
whole mine full right besides the Huntly power station but we import
the crappy stuff from Indonesia.
Do you have a reference for that assertion, Mutley? My understanding
is the imported coal gives better results overall as the coal from NZ
Mines does not produce as good results as the imported coal.
Why do you have to use inflamatory language. Look up the meaning of assertion
and perhaps you could moderate your use to good effect - you might, although
unlikely, annoy people less often.
I did not expect you to have any references to the assertion that
"here's a whole mine full right besides the Huntly power station but
we import the crappy stuff from Indonesia. ", but I also specifically
asked Mutley; nobody ever expects references to your assertions, Tony.
Rich if you don't know that there is a coal mine in Huntley next to
the power station (One of the reasons it was built there) then I
suggest you go back to school.

Loading...