Discussion:
Most open and transparent government evah!
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JohnO
2020-05-10 22:50:04 UTC
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Permalink
Having told their ministers to not answer questions about the handling of the Covid disaster documents, having buried those documents in a cynical end of day Friday dump, our government is now seeking to protect the budget from timely, expert critical analysis:

http://economicsnz.blogspot.com/2020/05/not-good-enough.html

Completely unacceptable and disgraceful. This government has hit peak 3-term arrogance before completing even a single term.
Tony
2020-05-10 23:14:43 UTC
Reply
Permalink
JohnO <***@gmail.com> wrote:
Having told their ministers to not answer questions about the handling of the
Covid disaster documents, having buried those documents in a cynical end of day
Friday dump, our government is now seeking to protect the budget from timely,
Post by JohnO
http://economicsnz.blogspot.com/2020/05/not-good-enough.html
Completely unacceptable and disgraceful. This government has hit peak 3-term
arrogance before completing even a single term.
And written by someone with impeccable credentials.
This is strike 2 for government dishonesty in less than a week, what will be
strike 3 I wonder?
James Christophers
2020-05-11 00:52:19 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by JohnO
Having told their ministers to not answer questions about the handling of the
Covid disaster documents, having buried those documents in a cynical end of day
Friday dump, our government is now seeking to protect the budget from timely,
Post by JohnO
http://economicsnz.blogspot.com/2020/05/not-good-enough.html
Completely unacceptable and disgraceful. This government has hit peak 3-term
arrogance before completing even a single term.
And written by someone with impeccable credentials.
Published on May 4.

The good gent also offers a Comments section.

Today, seven days after publication, still not one taker.
Post by JohnO
This is strike 2 for government dishonesty in less than a week, what will be
strike 3 I wonder?
Then may you continue foggily to wonder "lonely as a cloud" in your conspiracy-theorist twilight.

As for the Daffodils, you'll have to wait til spring is with us.
Tony
2020-05-11 01:09:14 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by James Christophers
Post by JohnO
Having told their ministers to not answer questions about the handling of the
Covid disaster documents, having buried those documents in a cynical end of day
Friday dump, our government is now seeking to protect the budget from timely,
Post by JohnO
http://economicsnz.blogspot.com/2020/05/not-good-enough.html
Completely unacceptable and disgraceful. This government has hit peak 3-term
arrogance before completing even a single term.
And written by someone with impeccable credentials.
Published on May 4.
Irrelevant
Post by James Christophers
The good gent also offers a Comments section.
Today, seven days after publication, still not one taker.
Irrelevant
Post by James Christophers
Post by JohnO
This is strike 2 for government dishonesty in less than a week, what will be
strike 3 I wonder?
Then may you continue foggily to wonder "lonely as a cloud" in your
conspiracy-theorist twilight.
As for the Daffodils, you'll have to wait til spring is with us.
Nonsense
James Christophers
2020-05-11 01:40:09 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by JohnO
Having told their ministers to not answer questions about the handling of the
Covid disaster documents, having buried those documents in a cynical end of day
Friday dump, our government is now seeking to protect the budget from timely,
Post by JohnO
http://economicsnz.blogspot.com/2020/05/not-good-enough.html
Completely unacceptable and disgraceful. This government has hit peak 3-term
arrogance before completing even a single term.
And written by someone with impeccable credentials.
Published on May 4.
Irrelevant
Post by James Christophers
The good gent also offers a Comments section.
Today, seven days after publication, still not one taker.
Irrelevant
It's rather like being breathlessly told of a new book being advertised, then turning up to the signing only to find that the author's absconded, with his book already remaindered at half-price.
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by JohnO
This is strike 2 for government dishonesty in less than a week, what will be
strike 3 I wonder?
Then may you continue foggily to wonder "lonely as a cloud" in your
conspiracy-theorist twilight.
As for the Daffodils, you'll have to wait til spring is with us.
Nonsense
(Then I suggest you tell that to the estimable Lake District author)
Tony
2020-05-11 02:24:42 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by JohnO
Having told their ministers to not answer questions about the handling of the
Covid disaster documents, having buried those documents in a cynical end
of
day
Friday dump, our government is now seeking to protect the budget from timely,
Post by JohnO
http://economicsnz.blogspot.com/2020/05/not-good-enough.html
Completely unacceptable and disgraceful. This government has hit peak 3-term
arrogance before completing even a single term.
And written by someone with impeccable credentials.
Published on May 4.
Irrelevant
Post by James Christophers
The good gent also offers a Comments section.
Today, seven days after publication, still not one taker.
Irrelevant
It's rather like being breathlessly told of a new book being advertised, then
turning up to the signing only to find that the author's absconded, with his
book already remaindered at half-price.
It's more like writing something that I, in this case, believe is worth
writing. Or do you object to freedom of speech? Hmmm most likely unless it is
your speech.
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by JohnO
This is strike 2 for government dishonesty in less than a week, what will be
strike 3 I wonder?
Then may you continue foggily to wonder "lonely as a cloud" in your
conspiracy-theorist twilight.
As for the Daffodils, you'll have to wait til spring is with us.
Nonsense
(Then I suggest you tell that to the estimable Lake District author)
I was responing to your nonsense.
James Christophers
2020-05-11 02:45:53 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by JohnO
Having told their ministers to not answer questions about the handling of the
Covid disaster documents, having buried those documents in a cynical end
of
day
Friday dump, our government is now seeking to protect the budget from timely,
Post by JohnO
http://economicsnz.blogspot.com/2020/05/not-good-enough.html
Completely unacceptable and disgraceful. This government has hit peak 3-term
arrogance before completing even a single term.
And written by someone with impeccable credentials.
Published on May 4.
Irrelevant
Post by James Christophers
The good gent also offers a Comments section.
Today, seven days after publication, still not one taker.
Irrelevant
It's rather like being breathlessly told of a new book being advertised, then
turning up to the signing only to find that the author's absconded, with his
book already remaindered at half-price.
It's more like writing something that I, in this case, believe is worth
writing.
It is a worthy piece, no question. No different in that respect then, than Wittgenstein's classic dissertation on the global impact of the dialectic of the Second Viennese School, albeit Wittgenstein is not as boring and can write decent German.
Post by Tony
Or do you object to freedom of speech?
Why would I do that?
Post by Tony
Hmmm most likely...
There you go again - unqualified presumptuousness being your Achille's heel that brings you down every time.
Post by Tony
...unless it is
your speech.
More meaningless speculation - never honest debate - from you. Your stock-in-trade. Get yourself seen to to and be quick about it.
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by JohnO
This is strike 2 for government dishonesty in less than a week, what will be
strike 3 I wonder?
Then may you continue foggily to wonder "lonely as a cloud" in your
conspiracy-theorist twilight.
As for the Daffodils, you'll have to wait til spring is with us.
Nonsense
(Then I suggest you tell that to the estimable Lake District author)
I was responding to your nonsense.
And much good has it done you!
Tony
2020-05-11 02:56:53 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by JohnO
Having told their ministers to not answer questions about the handling
of
the
Covid disaster documents, having buried those documents in a cynical end
of
day
Friday dump, our government is now seeking to protect the budget from timely,
Post by JohnO
http://economicsnz.blogspot.com/2020/05/not-good-enough.html
Completely unacceptable and disgraceful. This government has hit peak
3-term
arrogance before completing even a single term.
And written by someone with impeccable credentials.
Published on May 4.
Irrelevant
Post by James Christophers
The good gent also offers a Comments section.
Today, seven days after publication, still not one taker.
Irrelevant
It's rather like being breathlessly told of a new book being advertised, then
turning up to the signing only to find that the author's absconded, with his
book already remaindered at half-price.
It's more like writing something that I, in this case, believe is worth
writing.
It is a worthy piece, no question. No different in that respect then, than
Wittgenstein's classic dissertation on the global impact of the dialectic of
the Second Viennese School, albeit Wittgenstein is not as boring and can write
decent German.
Post by Tony
Or do you object to freedom of speech?
Why would I do that?
Post by Tony
Hmmm most likely...
There you go again - unqualified presumptuousness being your Achille's heel
that brings you down every time.
Post by Tony
...unless it is
your speech.
More meaningless speculation - never honest debate - from you. Your
stock-in-trade. Get yourself seen to to and be quick about it.
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by JohnO
This is strike 2 for government dishonesty in less than a week, what
will
be
strike 3 I wonder?
Then may you continue foggily to wonder "lonely as a cloud" in your
conspiracy-theorist twilight.
As for the Daffodils, you'll have to wait til spring is with us.
Nonsense
(Then I suggest you tell that to the estimable Lake District author)
I was responding to your nonsense.
And much good has it done you!
Your plan is clear to any half wit that stumbles across it. You can wallow in
your self- appointed but false intellectual superiority but it will do you no
good.
Be a good little humper of cables and learn your place.
James Christophers
2020-05-12 05:15:27 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by JohnO
Having told their ministers to not answer questions about the handling
of
the
Covid disaster documents, having buried those documents in a cynical end
of
day
Friday dump, our government is now seeking to protect the budget from
timely,
Post by JohnO
http://economicsnz.blogspot.com/2020/05/not-good-enough.html
Completely unacceptable and disgraceful. This government has hit peak
3-term
arrogance before completing even a single term.
And written by someone with impeccable credentials.
Published on May 4.
Irrelevant
Post by James Christophers
The good gent also offers a Comments section.
Today, seven days after publication, still not one taker.
Irrelevant
It's rather like being breathlessly told of a new book being advertised, then
turning up to the signing only to find that the author's absconded, with his
book already remaindered at half-price.
It's more like writing something that I, in this case, believe is worth
writing.
It is a worthy piece, no question. No different in that respect then, than
Wittgenstein's classic dissertation on the global impact of the dialectic of
the Second Viennese School, albeit Wittgenstein is not as boring and can write
decent German.
Post by Tony
Or do you object to freedom of speech?
Why would I do that?
Post by Tony
Hmmm most likely...
There you go again - unqualified presumptuousness being your Achille's heel
that brings you down every time.
Post by Tony
...unless it is
your speech.
More meaningless speculation - never honest debate - from you. Your
stock-in-trade. Get yourself seen to to and be quick about it.
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by JohnO
This is strike 2 for government dishonesty in less than a week, what
will
be
strike 3 I wonder?
Then may you continue foggily to wonder "lonely as a cloud" in your
conspiracy-theorist twilight.
As for the Daffodils, you'll have to wait til spring is with us.
Nonsense
(Then I suggest you tell that to the estimable Lake District author)
I was responding to your nonsense.
And much good has it done you!
Your plan is clear to any half wit that stumbles across it.
Once again, you fail to realise you're that self-same stumbling half-wit who spends his life imagining terrible "plans" he deludes himself others are making against him. The classic paranoiac and an laughably infantile one at that.
Post by Tony
You can wallow in your self- appointed...
One doesn't "self-appoint" a style to one's self, you linguistic dunce; one ascribes or self-ascribes it.
Post by Tony
...but false intellectual superiority but it will do you no
good.
There is absolutely no assumed "superiority" on my part whatever, false or otherwise. To think so is solely in the rat's nest mentality of the inadequate little twit that is you.

Your unrequited anguish at your lack of brainpower can never be assuaged by falsely attributing your deranged inventions to others. It is the surest sign of one who, too late in life, comes to realise that his own inferiority has for too long been evident to all but himself.
Post by Tony
Be a good little humper of cables and learn your place.
You didn't get even that far. On your Usenet showing alone, you can only have been evicted from the BBC in short order within mere weeks of joining; this because you made yourself so grossly incompatible not only with the BBC's then traditions and ethos, but also with those charged with conveying and maintaining them.

You simply didn't measure up. And everything about you says you nevr have and never will.

So you've ended up too late in life writing code, as lonely and as tinder-dry, and binary as it gets, since the best you can ever make of yourself is meekly to kneel as you only must to the immutable laws of nought and one.

You poor, poor bastard!
Tony
2020-05-12 06:13:54 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
On Monday, May 11, 2020 at 11:14:49 AM UTC+12,
Post by JohnO
Having told their ministers to not answer questions about the handling
of
the
Covid disaster documents, having buried those documents in a
cynical
end
of
day
Friday dump, our government is now seeking to protect the budget from
timely,
Post by JohnO
http://economicsnz.blogspot.com/2020/05/not-good-enough.html
Completely unacceptable and disgraceful. This government has hit peak
3-term
arrogance before completing even a single term.
And written by someone with impeccable credentials.
Published on May 4.
Irrelevant
The good gent also offers a Comments section.
Today, seven days after publication, still not one taker.
Irrelevant
It's rather like being breathlessly told of a new book being advertised, then
turning up to the signing only to find that the author's absconded, with his
book already remaindered at half-price.
It's more like writing something that I, in this case, believe is worth
writing.
It is a worthy piece, no question. No different in that respect then, than
Wittgenstein's classic dissertation on the global impact of the dialectic of
the Second Viennese School, albeit Wittgenstein is not as boring and can write
decent German.
Post by Tony
Or do you object to freedom of speech?
Why would I do that?
Post by Tony
Hmmm most likely...
There you go again - unqualified presumptuousness being your Achille's heel
that brings you down every time.
Post by Tony
...unless it is
your speech.
More meaningless speculation - never honest debate - from you. Your
stock-in-trade. Get yourself seen to to and be quick about it.
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by JohnO
This is strike 2 for government dishonesty in less than a week, what
will
be
strike 3 I wonder?
Then may you continue foggily to wonder "lonely as a cloud" in your
conspiracy-theorist twilight.
As for the Daffodils, you'll have to wait til spring is with us.
Nonsense
(Then I suggest you tell that to the estimable Lake District author)
I was responding to your nonsense.
And much good has it done you!
Your plan is clear to any half wit that stumbles across it.
Once again, you fail to realise you're that self-same stumbling half-wit who
spends his life imagining terrible "plans" he deludes himself others are making
against him. The classic paranoiac and an laughably infantile one at that.
Post by Tony
You can wallow in your self- appointed...
One doesn't "self-appoint" a style to one's self, you linguistic dunce; one
ascribes or self-ascribes it.
Post by Tony
...but false intellectual superiority but it will do you no
good.
There is absolutely no assumed "superiority" on my part whatever, false or
otherwise. To think so is solely in the rat's nest mentality of the inadequate
little twit that is you.
Your unrequited anguish at your lack of brainpower can never be assuaged by
falsely attributing your deranged inventions to others. It is the surest sign
of one who, too late in life, comes to realise that his own inferiority has for
too long been evident to all but himself.
Post by Tony
Be a good little humper of cables and learn your place.
You didn't get even that far. On your Usenet showing alone, you can only have
been evicted from the BBC in short order within mere weeks of joining; this
because you made yourself so grossly incompatible not only with the BBC's then
traditions and ethos, but also with those charged with conveying and
maintaining them.
You simply didn't measure up. And everything about you says you nevr have and never will.
So you've ended up too late in life writing code, as lonely and as tinder-dry,
and binary as it gets, since the best you can ever make of yourself is meekly
to kneel as you only must to the immutable laws of nought and one.
You poor, poor bastard!
So after 24 hours of stumbling around your excuse for an intellect you come up
with obvious lies and childish abuse.
Go away little man. I would suggest that you grow up but that is no longer
possible.
Rich80105
2020-05-12 07:47:38 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Tue, 12 May 2020 01:13:54 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
On Monday, May 11, 2020 at 11:14:49 AM UTC+12,
Post by JohnO
Having told their ministers to not answer questions about the handling
of
the
Covid disaster documents, having buried those documents in a
cynical
end
of
day
Friday dump, our government is now seeking to protect the budget from
timely,
Post by JohnO
http://economicsnz.blogspot.com/2020/05/not-good-enough.html
Completely unacceptable and disgraceful. This government has hit
peak
3-term
arrogance before completing even a single term.
And written by someone with impeccable credentials.
Published on May 4.
Irrelevant
The good gent also offers a Comments section.
Today, seven days after publication, still not one taker.
Irrelevant
It's rather like being breathlessly told of a new book being advertised, then
turning up to the signing only to find that the author's absconded, with his
book already remaindered at half-price.
It's more like writing something that I, in this case, believe is worth
writing.
It is a worthy piece, no question. No different in that respect then, than
Wittgenstein's classic dissertation on the global impact of the dialectic of
the Second Viennese School, albeit Wittgenstein is not as boring and can write
decent German.
Post by Tony
Or do you object to freedom of speech?
Why would I do that?
Post by Tony
Hmmm most likely...
There you go again - unqualified presumptuousness being your Achille's heel
that brings you down every time.
Post by Tony
...unless it is
your speech.
More meaningless speculation - never honest debate - from you. Your
stock-in-trade. Get yourself seen to to and be quick about it.
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by JohnO
This is strike 2 for government dishonesty in less than a week, what
will
be
strike 3 I wonder?
Then may you continue foggily to wonder "lonely as a cloud" in your
conspiracy-theorist twilight.
As for the Daffodils, you'll have to wait til spring is with us.
Nonsense
(Then I suggest you tell that to the estimable Lake District author)
I was responding to your nonsense.
And much good has it done you!
Your plan is clear to any half wit that stumbles across it.
Once again, you fail to realise you're that self-same stumbling half-wit who
spends his life imagining terrible "plans" he deludes himself others are making
against him. The classic paranoiac and an laughably infantile one at that.
Post by Tony
You can wallow in your self- appointed...
One doesn't "self-appoint" a style to one's self, you linguistic dunce; one
ascribes or self-ascribes it.
Post by Tony
...but false intellectual superiority but it will do you no
good.
There is absolutely no assumed "superiority" on my part whatever, false or
otherwise. To think so is solely in the rat's nest mentality of the inadequate
little twit that is you.
Your unrequited anguish at your lack of brainpower can never be assuaged by
falsely attributing your deranged inventions to others. It is the surest sign
of one who, too late in life, comes to realise that his own inferiority has for
too long been evident to all but himself.
Post by Tony
Be a good little humper of cables and learn your place.
You didn't get even that far. On your Usenet showing alone, you can only have
been evicted from the BBC in short order within mere weeks of joining; this
because you made yourself so grossly incompatible not only with the BBC's then
traditions and ethos, but also with those charged with conveying and
maintaining them.
You simply didn't measure up. And everything about you says you nevr have and never will.
So you've ended up too late in life writing code, as lonely and as tinder-dry,
and binary as it gets, since the best you can ever make of yourself is meekly
to kneel as you only must to the immutable laws of nought and one.
You poor, poor bastard!
So after 24 hours of stumbling around your excuse for an intellect you come up
with obvious lies and childish abuse.
Go away little man. I would suggest that you grow up but that is no longer
possible.
To get back to the subject, your faux upset at a government releasing
a large amount of information (which as has been pointed out has
often been done in the past, and may merely reflect the timing of when
the work to put them togther for release was completed), is covered
again here:
https://vimeo.com/417445867
Tony
2020-05-12 07:56:51 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Tue, 12 May 2020 01:13:54 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
On Monday, May 11, 2020 at 11:14:49 AM UTC+12,
Post by JohnO
Having told their ministers to not answer questions about the
handling
of
the
Covid disaster documents, having buried those documents in a
cynical
end
of
day
Friday dump, our government is now seeking to protect the budget
from
timely,
Post by JohnO
http://economicsnz.blogspot.com/2020/05/not-good-enough.html
Completely unacceptable and disgraceful. This government has hit
peak
3-term
arrogance before completing even a single term.
And written by someone with impeccable credentials.
Published on May 4.
Irrelevant
The good gent also offers a Comments section.
Today, seven days after publication, still not one taker.
Irrelevant
It's rather like being breathlessly told of a new book being
advertised,
then
turning up to the signing only to find that the author's absconded,
with
his
book already remaindered at half-price.
It's more like writing something that I, in this case, believe is worth
writing.
It is a worthy piece, no question. No different in that respect then, than
Wittgenstein's classic dissertation on the global impact of the dialectic of
the Second Viennese School, albeit Wittgenstein is not as boring and can write
decent German.
Post by Tony
Or do you object to freedom of speech?
Why would I do that?
Post by Tony
Hmmm most likely...
There you go again - unqualified presumptuousness being your Achille's heel
that brings you down every time.
Post by Tony
...unless it is
your speech.
More meaningless speculation - never honest debate - from you. Your
stock-in-trade. Get yourself seen to to and be quick about it.
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by JohnO
This is strike 2 for government dishonesty in less than a week, what
will
be
strike 3 I wonder?
Then may you continue foggily to wonder "lonely as a cloud" in your
conspiracy-theorist twilight.
As for the Daffodils, you'll have to wait til spring is with us.
Nonsense
(Then I suggest you tell that to the estimable Lake District author)
I was responding to your nonsense.
And much good has it done you!
Your plan is clear to any half wit that stumbles across it.
Once again, you fail to realise you're that self-same stumbling half-wit who
spends his life imagining terrible "plans" he deludes himself others are making
against him. The classic paranoiac and an laughably infantile one at that.
Post by Tony
You can wallow in your self- appointed...
One doesn't "self-appoint" a style to one's self, you linguistic dunce; one
ascribes or self-ascribes it.
Post by Tony
...but false intellectual superiority but it will do you no
good.
There is absolutely no assumed "superiority" on my part whatever, false or
otherwise. To think so is solely in the rat's nest mentality of the inadequate
little twit that is you.
Your unrequited anguish at your lack of brainpower can never be assuaged by
falsely attributing your deranged inventions to others. It is the surest sign
of one who, too late in life, comes to realise that his own inferiority has for
too long been evident to all but himself.
Post by Tony
Be a good little humper of cables and learn your place.
You didn't get even that far. On your Usenet showing alone, you can only have
been evicted from the BBC in short order within mere weeks of joining; this
because you made yourself so grossly incompatible not only with the BBC's then
traditions and ethos, but also with those charged with conveying and
maintaining them.
You simply didn't measure up. And everything about you says you nevr have
and
never will.
So you've ended up too late in life writing code, as lonely and as tinder-dry,
and binary as it gets, since the best you can ever make of yourself is meekly
to kneel as you only must to the immutable laws of nought and one.
You poor, poor bastard!
So after 24 hours of stumbling around your excuse for an intellect you come up
with obvious lies and childish abuse.
Go away little man. I would suggest that you grow up but that is no longer
possible.
To get back to the subject, your faux upset at a government releasing
a large amount of information (which as has been pointed out has
often been done in the past, and may merely reflect the timing of when
the work to put them togther for release was completed), is covered
https://vimeo.com/417445867
How can you be so daft.
I have not posted that I was upset with that, governments tend to do that on
Fridays.
My only post was about the dictatorial message that said do not talk to the
media.
Crash
2020-05-12 08:21:17 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Tue, 12 May 2020 01:13:54 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
On Monday, May 11, 2020 at 11:14:49 AM UTC+12,
Post by JohnO
Having told their ministers to not answer questions about the
handling
of
the
Covid disaster documents, having buried those documents in a
cynical
end
of
day
Friday dump, our government is now seeking to protect the budget
from
timely,
Post by JohnO
http://economicsnz.blogspot.com/2020/05/not-good-enough.html
Completely unacceptable and disgraceful. This government has hit
peak
3-term
arrogance before completing even a single term.
And written by someone with impeccable credentials.
Published on May 4.
Irrelevant
The good gent also offers a Comments section.
Today, seven days after publication, still not one taker.
Irrelevant
It's rather like being breathlessly told of a new book being advertised, then
turning up to the signing only to find that the author's absconded, with his
book already remaindered at half-price.
It's more like writing something that I, in this case, believe is worth
writing.
It is a worthy piece, no question. No different in that respect then, than
Wittgenstein's classic dissertation on the global impact of the dialectic of
the Second Viennese School, albeit Wittgenstein is not as boring and can write
decent German.
Post by Tony
Or do you object to freedom of speech?
Why would I do that?
Post by Tony
Hmmm most likely...
There you go again - unqualified presumptuousness being your Achille's heel
that brings you down every time.
Post by Tony
...unless it is
your speech.
More meaningless speculation - never honest debate - from you. Your
stock-in-trade. Get yourself seen to to and be quick about it.
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by JohnO
This is strike 2 for government dishonesty in less than a week, what
will
be
strike 3 I wonder?
Then may you continue foggily to wonder "lonely as a cloud" in your
conspiracy-theorist twilight.
As for the Daffodils, you'll have to wait til spring is with us.
Nonsense
(Then I suggest you tell that to the estimable Lake District author)
I was responding to your nonsense.
And much good has it done you!
Your plan is clear to any half wit that stumbles across it.
Once again, you fail to realise you're that self-same stumbling half-wit who
spends his life imagining terrible "plans" he deludes himself others are making
against him. The classic paranoiac and an laughably infantile one at that.
Post by Tony
You can wallow in your self- appointed...
One doesn't "self-appoint" a style to one's self, you linguistic dunce; one
ascribes or self-ascribes it.
Post by Tony
...but false intellectual superiority but it will do you no
good.
There is absolutely no assumed "superiority" on my part whatever, false or
otherwise. To think so is solely in the rat's nest mentality of the inadequate
little twit that is you.
Your unrequited anguish at your lack of brainpower can never be assuaged by
falsely attributing your deranged inventions to others. It is the surest sign
of one who, too late in life, comes to realise that his own inferiority has for
too long been evident to all but himself.
Post by Tony
Be a good little humper of cables and learn your place.
You didn't get even that far. On your Usenet showing alone, you can only have
been evicted from the BBC in short order within mere weeks of joining; this
because you made yourself so grossly incompatible not only with the BBC's then
traditions and ethos, but also with those charged with conveying and
maintaining them.
You simply didn't measure up. And everything about you says you nevr have and
never will.
So you've ended up too late in life writing code, as lonely and as tinder-dry,
and binary as it gets, since the best you can ever make of yourself is meekly
to kneel as you only must to the immutable laws of nought and one.
You poor, poor bastard!
So after 24 hours of stumbling around your excuse for an intellect you come up
with obvious lies and childish abuse.
Go away little man. I would suggest that you grow up but that is no longer
possible.
To get back to the subject, your faux upset at a government releasing
a large amount of information (which as has been pointed out has
often been done in the past, and may merely reflect the timing of when
the work to put them togther for release was completed), is covered
https://vimeo.com/417445867
While I usually don't butt into a Tony/James/Rich show, I feel it
pertinent to point out that releasing large volumes of data
voluntarily (but may well have been elicited via OIA requests) at a
time designed to obscure any immediate scrutiny, is a tactic many
believed a Labour-led (sorry Winston) Government would not stoop to.
They have. Therefore this Government has no moral political high
ground, dashing the hopes of many based on their commitments
immediately after the 2017 General Election.


--
Crash McBash
Rich80105
2020-05-12 09:42:29 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
On Tue, 12 May 2020 01:13:54 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
On Monday, May 11, 2020 at 11:14:49 AM UTC+12,
Post by JohnO
Having told their ministers to not answer questions about the
handling
of
the
Covid disaster documents, having buried those documents in a
cynical
end
of
day
Friday dump, our government is now seeking to protect the budget
from
timely,
Post by JohnO
http://economicsnz.blogspot.com/2020/05/not-good-enough.html
Completely unacceptable and disgraceful. This government has hit
peak
3-term
arrogance before completing even a single term.
And written by someone with impeccable credentials.
Published on May 4.
Irrelevant
The good gent also offers a Comments section.
Today, seven days after publication, still not one taker.
Irrelevant
It's rather like being breathlessly told of a new book being advertised,
then
turning up to the signing only to find that the author's absconded, with
his
book already remaindered at half-price.
It's more like writing something that I, in this case, believe is worth
writing.
It is a worthy piece, no question. No different in that respect then, than
Wittgenstein's classic dissertation on the global impact of the dialectic of
the Second Viennese School, albeit Wittgenstein is not as boring and can write
decent German.
Post by Tony
Or do you object to freedom of speech?
Why would I do that?
Post by Tony
Hmmm most likely...
There you go again - unqualified presumptuousness being your Achille's heel
that brings you down every time.
Post by Tony
...unless it is
your speech.
More meaningless speculation - never honest debate - from you. Your
stock-in-trade. Get yourself seen to to and be quick about it.
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by JohnO
This is strike 2 for government dishonesty in less than a week,
what
will
be
strike 3 I wonder?
Then may you continue foggily to wonder "lonely as a cloud" in your
conspiracy-theorist twilight.
As for the Daffodils, you'll have to wait til spring is with us.
Nonsense
(Then I suggest you tell that to the estimable Lake District author)
I was responding to your nonsense.
And much good has it done you!
Your plan is clear to any half wit that stumbles across it.
Once again, you fail to realise you're that self-same stumbling half-wit who
spends his life imagining terrible "plans" he deludes himself others are making
against him. The classic paranoiac and an laughably infantile one at that.
Post by Tony
You can wallow in your self- appointed...
One doesn't "self-appoint" a style to one's self, you linguistic dunce; one
ascribes or self-ascribes it.
Post by Tony
...but false intellectual superiority but it will do you no
good.
There is absolutely no assumed "superiority" on my part whatever, false or
otherwise. To think so is solely in the rat's nest mentality of the inadequate
little twit that is you.
Your unrequited anguish at your lack of brainpower can never be assuaged by
falsely attributing your deranged inventions to others. It is the surest sign
of one who, too late in life, comes to realise that his own inferiority has for
too long been evident to all but himself.
Post by Tony
Be a good little humper of cables and learn your place.
You didn't get even that far. On your Usenet showing alone, you can only have
been evicted from the BBC in short order within mere weeks of joining; this
because you made yourself so grossly incompatible not only with the BBC's then
traditions and ethos, but also with those charged with conveying and
maintaining them.
You simply didn't measure up. And everything about you says you nevr have and
never will.
So you've ended up too late in life writing code, as lonely and as tinder-dry,
and binary as it gets, since the best you can ever make of yourself is meekly
to kneel as you only must to the immutable laws of nought and one.
You poor, poor bastard!
So after 24 hours of stumbling around your excuse for an intellect you come up
with obvious lies and childish abuse.
Go away little man. I would suggest that you grow up but that is no longer
possible.
To get back to the subject, your faux upset at a government releasing
a large amount of information (which as has been pointed out has
often been done in the past, and may merely reflect the timing of when
the work to put them togther for release was completed), is covered
https://vimeo.com/417445867
While I usually don't butt into a Tony/James/Rich show, I feel it
pertinent to point out that releasing large volumes of data
voluntarily (but may well have been elicited via OIA requests) at a
time designed to obscure any immediate scrutiny, is a tactic many
believed a Labour-led (sorry Winston) Government would not stoop to.
They have. Therefore this Government has no moral political high
ground, dashing the hopes of many based on their commitments
immediately after the 2017 General Election.
Which is why I posted the video - there is a recognition that the
timing was not ideal (although it seems it was not particularly
important material - here is it now 4 days later and there has been
little said about it since Saturday), and active plans to announce
data releases and time them for mornings. That may well mean delaying
until the following day, but it seems the timing will then be more
acceptable!)

The main commitment was to release information - the timing of one
batch on a Friday afternoon is relatively minor (I know that often a
department will try to clear issues during a week, that many things
get finished on a Friday will not bea surprise to many). Again the
vodeo gives details of pro-active releases of information, and a huge
increase in completed requests for information compared with teh
previous government; I don't think it can be said that they have not
made improvements.
James Christophers
2020-05-12 23:33:10 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
On Tue, 12 May 2020 01:13:54 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
On Monday, May 11, 2020 at 11:14:49 AM UTC+12,
Post by JohnO
Having told their ministers to not answer questions about the
handling
of
the
Covid disaster documents, having buried those documents in a
cynical
end
of
day
Friday dump, our government is now seeking to protect the budget
from
timely,
Post by JohnO
http://economicsnz.blogspot.com/2020/05/not-good-enough.html
Completely unacceptable and disgraceful. This government has hit
peak
3-term
arrogance before completing even a single term.
And written by someone with impeccable credentials.
Published on May 4.
Irrelevant
The good gent also offers a Comments section.
Today, seven days after publication, still not one taker.
Irrelevant
It's rather like being breathlessly told of a new book being advertised,
then
turning up to the signing only to find that the author's absconded, with
his
book already remaindered at half-price.
It's more like writing something that I, in this case, believe is worth
writing.
It is a worthy piece, no question. No different in that respect then, than
Wittgenstein's classic dissertation on the global impact of the dialectic of
the Second Viennese School, albeit Wittgenstein is not as boring and can write
decent German.
Post by Tony
Or do you object to freedom of speech?
Why would I do that?
Post by Tony
Hmmm most likely...
There you go again - unqualified presumptuousness being your Achille's heel
that brings you down every time.
Post by Tony
...unless it is
your speech.
More meaningless speculation - never honest debate - from you. Your
stock-in-trade. Get yourself seen to to and be quick about it.
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by JohnO
This is strike 2 for government dishonesty in less than a week,
what
will
be
strike 3 I wonder?
Then may you continue foggily to wonder "lonely as a cloud" in your
conspiracy-theorist twilight.
As for the Daffodils, you'll have to wait til spring is with us.
Nonsense
(Then I suggest you tell that to the estimable Lake District author)
I was responding to your nonsense.
And much good has it done you!
Your plan is clear to any half wit that stumbles across it.
Once again, you fail to realise you're that self-same stumbling half-wit who
spends his life imagining terrible "plans" he deludes himself others are making
against him. The classic paranoiac and an laughably infantile one at that.
Post by Tony
You can wallow in your self- appointed...
One doesn't "self-appoint" a style to one's self, you linguistic dunce; one
ascribes or self-ascribes it.
Post by Tony
...but false intellectual superiority but it will do you no
good.
There is absolutely no assumed "superiority" on my part whatever, false or
otherwise. To think so is solely in the rat's nest mentality of the inadequate
little twit that is you.
Your unrequited anguish at your lack of brainpower can never be assuaged by
falsely attributing your deranged inventions to others. It is the surest sign
of one who, too late in life, comes to realise that his own inferiority has for
too long been evident to all but himself.
Post by Tony
Be a good little humper of cables and learn your place.
You didn't get even that far. On your Usenet showing alone, you can only have
been evicted from the BBC in short order within mere weeks of joining; this
because you made yourself so grossly incompatible not only with the BBC's then
traditions and ethos, but also with those charged with conveying and
maintaining them.
You simply didn't measure up. And everything about you says you nevr have and
never will.
So you've ended up too late in life writing code, as lonely and as tinder-dry,
and binary as it gets, since the best you can ever make of yourself is meekly
to kneel as you only must to the immutable laws of nought and one.
You poor, poor bastard!
So after 24 hours of stumbling around your excuse for an intellect you come up
with obvious lies and childish abuse.
Go away little man. I would suggest that you grow up but that is no longer
possible.
To get back to the subject, your faux upset at a government releasing
a large amount of information (which as has been pointed out has
often been done in the past, and may merely reflect the timing of when
the work to put them togther for release was completed), is covered
https://vimeo.com/417445867
While I usually don't butt into a Tony/James/Rich show, I feel it
pertinent to point out that releasing large volumes of data
voluntarily (but may well have been elicited via OIA requests) at a
time designed to obscure any immediate scrutiny, is a tactic many
believed a Labour-led (sorry Winston) Government would not stoop to.
They have. Therefore this Government has no moral political high
ground, dashing the hopes of many based on their commitments
immediately after the 2017 General Election.
Good points, Crash.

For the more aware and the more seasoned, political pledges such as "More open than ever" fall mostly on deaf ears (or should) since, intrinsically, aspiration can be neither a promise nor an assurance. It is, and can only ever be, no more than the expression of a philosophy based on an "idealised" notion or ethos.

In which case, for anyone to claim that it is a promise carved in stone and never to be moderated or broken is on the one hand beyond naive; or, on the other, both cynical and hypocritical and therefore inherently, knowingly dishonest.

Indeed, some would do well to remember that politics has long since been dubbed, "The Art of the Possible," never the Art of the Probable.

This is by no means to excuse any politician's behaviour in such matters, but hopefully to help bring both facts-of-life realism and perspective into the discourse - in fact any discourse involving politics and politicians.

OK everyone?

Crash
2020-05-11 01:57:44 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Sun, 10 May 2020 17:52:19 -0700 (PDT), James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by JohnO
Having told their ministers to not answer questions about the handling of the
Covid disaster documents, having buried those documents in a cynical end of day
Friday dump, our government is now seeking to protect the budget from timely,
Post by JohnO
http://economicsnz.blogspot.com/2020/05/not-good-enough.html
Completely unacceptable and disgraceful. This government has hit peak 3-term
arrogance before completing even a single term.
And written by someone with impeccable credentials.
Published on May 4.
The good gent also offers a Comments section.
Today, seven days after publication, still not one taker.
So, in your view James, this affects the validity of what is being
said? In my book, 'Comments' are for those who dissent and wish to be
published, so the absence of Comments posts could indicate that there
are no dissenters.

The significance of the limited early-access to the budget should be
clear in the aftermath. Pissing off commentators who in previous
years have attended the lock-up but this year are excluded is not a
good look when we have an upcoming election.
Post by James Christophers
Post by JohnO
This is strike 2 for government dishonesty in less than a week, what will be
strike 3 I wonder?
Then may you continue foggily to wonder "lonely as a cloud" in your conspiracy-theorist twilight.
As for the Daffodils, you'll have to wait til spring is with us.
--
Crash McBash
James Christophers
2020-05-11 02:31:07 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Crash
On Sun, 10 May 2020 17:52:19 -0700 (PDT), James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by JohnO
Having told their ministers to not answer questions about the handling of the
Covid disaster documents, having buried those documents in a cynical end of day
Friday dump, our government is now seeking to protect the budget from timely,
Post by JohnO
http://economicsnz.blogspot.com/2020/05/not-good-enough.html
Completely unacceptable and disgraceful. This government has hit peak 3-term
arrogance before completing even a single term.
And written by someone with impeccable credentials.
Published on May 4.
The good gent also offers a Comments section.
Today, seven days after publication, still not one taker.
So, in your view James, this affects the validity of what is being
said?
Not as such, for me at any reate. To me it means it has failed to stimulate a tangible response, favourable or otherwise, so its effectiveness is is question.


In my book, 'Comments' are for those who dissent and wish to be
Post by Crash
published,
(Everyone's a critic, but not everyone is a sycophant.)


What you say tends often to be the case, and the more politicised the polemic, the more polarised the responses it will provoke.
Post by Crash
so the absence of Comments posts could indicate that there
are no dissenters.
This is the classic universal presumption that silence is tantamount to assent.
Post by Crash
The significance of the limited early-access to the budget should be
clear in the aftermath.
A "told you so" opportunity for both yea-sayer and nay-sayer.
Post by Crash
Pissing off commentators who in previous
years have attended the lock-up but this year are excluded is not a
good look when we have an upcoming election.
Right on, Crash, but this is the irreducible dilemma.

However, as I have suggested in another thread, with the current (and unique?) economic climate being potentially infinitely more unstable than would otherwise be expected, permitting anything that risks jeopardising state security is, I believe, an ask too far, not for just the government's but for the nation's sake.

After all, it's not the leaker who pays the price of the consequences of the leak but the government. And, inevitably, the entire nation.

Indeed, who would want to be top smell in a government that found itself so impossibly compromised and when "to explain is to lose"?
Post by Crash
Post by James Christophers
Post by JohnO
This is strike 2 for government dishonesty in less than a week, what will be
strike 3 I wonder?
Then may you continue foggily to wonder "lonely as a cloud" in your conspiracy-theorist twilight.
As for the Daffodils, you'll have to wait til spring is with us.
--
Crash McBash
[Thanks a bunch, Crash ;-)]
James Christophers
2020-05-11 02:48:51 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by James Christophers
Post by Crash
On Sun, 10 May 2020 17:52:19 -0700 (PDT), James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by JohnO
Having told their ministers to not answer questions about the handling of the
Covid disaster documents, having buried those documents in a cynical end of day
Friday dump, our government is now seeking to protect the budget from timely,
Post by JohnO
http://economicsnz.blogspot.com/2020/05/not-good-enough.html
Completely unacceptable and disgraceful. This government has hit peak 3-term
arrogance before completing even a single term.
And written by someone with impeccable credentials.
Published on May 4.
The good gent also offers a Comments section.
Today, seven days after publication, still not one taker.
So, in your view James, this affects the validity of what is being
said?
Not as such, for me at any reate. To me it means it has failed to stimulate a tangible response, favourable or otherwise, so its effectiveness is is question.
In my book, 'Comments' are for those who dissent and wish to be
Post by Crash
published,
(Everyone's a critic, but not everyone is a sycophant.)
What you say tends often to be the case, and the more politicised the polemic, the more polarised the responses it will provoke.
Post by Crash
so the absence of Comments posts could indicate that there
are no dissenters.
This is the classic universal presumption that silence is tantamount to assent.
Post by Crash
The significance of the limited early-access to the budget should be
clear in the aftermath.
A "told you so" opportunity for both yea-sayer and nay-sayer.
Post by Crash
Pissing off commentators who in previous
years have attended the lock-up but this year are excluded is not a
good look when we have an upcoming election.
Right on, Crash, but this is the irreducible dilemma.
However, as I have suggested in another thread, with the current (and unique?) economic climate being potentially infinitely more unstable than would otherwise be expected, permitting anything that risks jeopardising state security is, I believe, an ask too far, not for just the government's but for the nation's sake.
After all, it's not the leaker who pays the price of the consequences of the leak but the government. And, inevitably, the entire nation.
Indeed, who would want to be top smell in a government that found itself so impossibly compromised and when "to explain is to lose"?
Post by Crash
Post by James Christophers
Post by JohnO
This is strike 2 for government dishonesty in less than a week, what will be
strike 3 I wonder?
Then may you continue foggily to wonder "lonely as a cloud" in your conspiracy-theorist twilight.
As for the Daffodils, you'll have to wait til spring is with us.
--
Crash McBash
[Thanks a bunch, Crash ;-)]
Oooops! Beg pardon - wrong attribution!)
James Christophers
2020-05-10 23:50:33 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by JohnO
http://economicsnz.blogspot.com/2020/05/not-good-enough.html
Completely unacceptable and disgraceful. This government has hit peak 3-term arrogance before completing even a single term.
A few thoughts, not a riposte:

A secret shared is no longer a secret. The greater the number sharing that secret the less secure that secret becomes, and the multiplication of that risk tends to exponential.

One solitary leak well (badly) timed is all it need take to completely destabilise a currency and with it an entire economy that, along with virtually every other nation, is now - mark well - in unprecedented extremis.

In the 21st century, nano FX trading has become prevalent with millions - billions, even - to be made or lost in value in fractions of a second. Right now, the predators are poised and the vultures are craning their scrawny necks...

For Robertson and his 2020 budget, the economic criticality of which is said to be unprecedented centred as it can only be on the current impact and future consequences of the pandemic, there can be no room for error or betrayal.

None. Zilch.

Remember, we're talking about nothing less than state security.

In any case, to be made privy to an upcoming budget is always a privilege, a privilege accorded solely on trust. That said, it is a privilege that must also be made conditional according to prevailing circumstances.

A global pandemic is, I suggest, one such circumstance and one that could be writ no larger, so on this one occasion the potential ramifications of any such breach of lockup confidence cannot be overstated.

As an aside, divulging even the smallest and/or least significant details of a budget prior to its being delivered from the dispatch box, is a relatively new phenomenon.

(I note that the NZ$ is currently on the rise.)
Rich80105
2020-05-11 02:33:12 UTC
Reply
Permalink
What has been intresting about all those Covid-19 documents is that it
appears reporters have not found them particularly interesting - far
from being buried, they are readily available, but obviously the
"gotcha' addicts haven't found much to get excited about.
Post by JohnO
http://economicsnz.blogspot.com/2020/05/not-good-enough.html
Completely unacceptable and disgraceful. This government has hit peak 3-term arrogance before completing even a single term.
There are some parts of the article that I believe most people will
agree - this is an important budget, being prepared under difficult
circumstances. His description of what 'normally" happens is
straightforward:

"Normally, the people most interested in fiscal policy sign up for the
'lock up' - a vetted group of people, mostly the media but also the
likes of bank economists and sectoral lobbyists - who on Budget day
get access (usually mid-morning) to the Budget documents ahead of
their release, subject to a time embargo. The deal is, if you've got a
strong interest in fiscal policy, and Treasury agrees you're a player
in that space, you get to see the stuff in a controlled environment,
and with the advantage of the preparation time, you will be able to
provide informed commentary, but (because of the agreed embargo) not
before the Minister of Finance does his thing in the House. Works for
everyone. I've been in lots of them."

The problem with that is that of course we are not in normal times. I
can imagine changes being potentially made to the budget that morning.
We are in an electronic age, but high speed printing can get enough
copies for the whole house in a relatively short period. Importantly,
in level 3, we should be seen to minimise gatherings unless they are
very important. Presumably they will have to ensure appropriate
distancing, and that will men that there is less room available than
for the 2019 budget, but in essence the lock-up is actually less
important than it used to be.

I can remember staying at work until late on budget day for quite a
few years ready to write up a newsletter to get to the news media for
the next day commentary and also to clients. In some cases budget
annoucments meant that there would be reccomendations for action the
next day, but over time that has become less important. The news media
wanted people to praise or criticise based on sectional interests;
usually it was quite shallow - either we got what we had asked for or
we didn't; big issues would take a few days for considered responses.

So if we are really serious about fighting Covid-19 and keeping safe,
why even have a lock-up? Whoever is able to answer queries in lock up
(it hasn't always been the Minister) could well get on with other
work, or answer queries after the budget is read in the House. It
would be possible for the budget to be "published"on a website as it
is spoken - much more a 'level playing field"when you think about it.

I see that Donal Curtin now works for Acuity - he has previously been
with a bank and on the Commerce Commission. He has probably enjoyed
past lock-ups, and added value for his employer, but this is not an
issue of being open and transparent; it is practicality and paying due
attention to safety.
John Bowes
2020-05-11 22:11:18 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
What has been intresting about all those Covid-19 documents is that it
appears reporters have not found them particularly interesting - far
from being buried, they are readily available, but obviously the
"gotcha' addicts haven't found much to get excited about.
It only shows they've done a pretty good job of sanitizing the documents!
Post by Rich80105
Post by JohnO
http://economicsnz.blogspot.com/2020/05/not-good-enough.html
Completely unacceptable and disgraceful. This government has hit peak 3-term arrogance before completing even a single term.
<the obvious snipped>
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