Discussion:
Time for intervention
Add Reply
Tony
2020-01-19 20:05:40 UTC
Reply
Permalink
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/118654829/no-time-to-care-is-there-a-crisis-in-caring-for-the-elderly
This is not the first indication of a move to reduce care for vulnerable or
less mobile elderly people by some providers.
Whatever the cause, perhaps this government should investigate and see if
funding needs adjustment.
Rich80105
2020-01-20 00:18:41 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Sun, 19 Jan 2020 14:05:40 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/118654829/no-time-to-care-is-there-a-crisis-in-caring-for-the-elderly
This is not the first indication of a move to reduce care for vulnerable or
less mobile elderly people by some providers.
Whatever the cause, perhaps this government should investigate and see if
funding needs adjustment.
I suspect it is already happening, Tony. It is a difficult industry -
there are a large number of small contracts, employing largely part
time, middle aged ladies who fit this work around looking after
families. The funders have been under intense pressure to reduce costs
for over a decade - it has led to workers not being paid for travel to
and from work, to having to provide their opwn transport and pay those
costs, and this for litle more than minimum wage with restrictions on
time they are allowed to spend with "clients." The DHBs still have
the cost of assessments, but now also pay for multiple contracts
(apparently for each client), monitoring of performance, as well as
charges that must of course include profit for the numerous care
employers. With minimum cost being the driving force, I suspect
contracts are now squeezing profit levels, but also there is
competition from that growing indutry, retirement villages and
hospital care facilities. They are the darlings of the sharemarket,
providing all those services at lower cost (after all their patients
are grouped together), and also they make most of their profits
through gains in property values, which mean they do not need other
than minimal profits from their clients.

The lady in the article is almost certainly hoping to stay in her own
home for a bit longer, but like landlords, the industry providing the
services knows that stories like this can only be helpful in getting
greater subsidies to restore profit levels. We know that increasing
the ability for students to borrow or increasing benefit levels has
merely led to higher rents for students and the poor.

Do you have any suggestions for improving the concerns of vulnerable
or less mobile elderly people, care workers under instructions to
reduce time spent, huge administrative costs, and an unfaior market
that pitches companies providing services against large coporates who
rovide similar services as an adjunct to tax efficient structures that
exploit rising property values?

Do you know whether our loyal opposition have any policies on this
issue?
Tony
2020-01-20 02:04:15 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Sun, 19 Jan 2020 14:05:40 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/118654829/no-time-to-care-is-there-a-crisis-in-caring-for-the-elderly
This is not the first indication of a move to reduce care for vulnerable or
less mobile elderly people by some providers.
Whatever the cause, perhaps this government should investigate and see if
funding needs adjustment.
I suspect it is already happening, Tony.
Useless remark. Do you know oir are you merely guseeing again?
It is a difficult industry -
Post by Rich80105
there are a large number of small contracts, employing largely part
time, middle aged ladies who fit this work around looking after
families.
How very patronising, and as it happens completely untrue.
Post by Rich80105
The funders have been under intense pressure to reduce costs
for over a decade - it has led to workers not being paid for travel to
and from work
Untrue again, that was addressed three years ago and all of the employees get
paid to travel after a certain distance (just like employees in virtually every
industry).
Post by Rich80105
, to having to provide their opwn transport and pay those
costs, and this for litle more than minimum wage with restrictions on
time they are allowed to spend with "clients." The DHBs still have
the cost of assessments, but now also pay for multiple contracts
(apparently for each client), monitoring of performance, as well as
charges that must of course include profit for the numerous care
employers. With minimum cost being the driving force, I suspect
contracts are now squeezing profit levels, but also there is
competition from that growing indutry, retirement villages and
hospital care facilities. They are the darlings of the sharemarket,
providing all those services at lower cost (after all their patients
are grouped together), and also they make most of their profits
through gains in property values, which mean they do not need other
than minimal profits from their clients.
All of which has nothing to do with the subject.
Post by Rich80105
The lady in the article is almost certainly hoping to stay in her own
home for a bit longer, but like landlords, the industry providing the
services knows that stories like this can only be helpful in getting
greater subsidies to restore profit levels. We know that increasing
the ability for students to borrow or increasing benefit levels has
merely led to higher rents for students and the poor.
Which has what to do with the subject?
Post by Rich80105
Do you have any suggestions for improving the concerns of vulnerable
or less mobile elderly people, care workers under instructions to
reduce time spent, huge administrative costs, and an unfaior market
that pitches companies providing services against large coporates who
rovide similar services as an adjunct to tax efficient structures that
exploit rising property values?
What nonsense, these services are funded by the government - get a life and
start to twll the truth occasionally.

Irrelevant policial comment on the opposition.
John Bowes
2020-01-20 04:46:52 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sun, 19 Jan 2020 14:05:40 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/118654829/no-time-to-care-is-there-a-crisis-in-caring-for-the-elderly
This is not the first indication of a move to reduce care for vulnerable or
less mobile elderly people by some providers.
Whatever the cause, perhaps this government should investigate and see if
funding needs adjustment.
I suspect it is already happening, Tony.
Useless remark. Do you know oir are you merely guseeing again?
Nah. he's just covering up another failure of the government Tony. rich ALWAYS preceeds his spin with the words "I suspect"!
Post by Tony
It is a difficult industry -
Post by Rich80105
there are a large number of small contracts, employing largely part
time, middle aged ladies who fit this work around looking after
families.
How very patronising, and as it happens completely untrue.
Post by Rich80105
The funders have been under intense pressure to reduce costs
for over a decade - it has led to workers not being paid for travel to
and from work
Untrue again, that was addressed three years ago and all of the employees get
paid to travel after a certain distance (just like employees in virtually every
industry).
Rich get tripped yet again by inconvenient facts. seems to be a common fault with him and the useless marxist muppets he blindly supports.
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
, to having to provide their opwn transport and pay those
costs, and this for litle more than minimum wage with restrictions on
time they are allowed to spend with "clients." The DHBs still have
the cost of assessments, but now also pay for multiple contracts
(apparently for each client), monitoring of performance, as well as
charges that must of course include profit for the numerous care
employers. With minimum cost being the driving force, I suspect
contracts are now squeezing profit levels, but also there is
competition from that growing indutry, retirement villages and
hospital care facilities. They are the darlings of the sharemarket,
providing all those services at lower cost (after all their patients
are grouped together), and also they make most of their profits
through gains in property values, which mean they do not need other
than minimal profits from their clients.
All of which has nothing to do with the subject.
Post by Rich80105
The lady in the article is almost certainly hoping to stay in her own
home for a bit longer, but like landlords, the industry providing the
services knows that stories like this can only be helpful in getting
greater subsidies to restore profit levels. We know that increasing
the ability for students to borrow or increasing benefit levels has
merely led to higher rents for students and the poor.
Which has what to do with the subject?
Post by Rich80105
Do you have any suggestions for improving the concerns of vulnerable
or less mobile elderly people, care workers under instructions to
reduce time spent, huge administrative costs, and an unfaior market
that pitches companies providing services against large coporates who
rovide similar services as an adjunct to tax efficient structures that
exploit rising property values?
What nonsense, these services are funded by the government - get a life and
start to twll the truth occasionally.
Irrelevant policial comment on the opposition.
Rich80105
2020-01-20 20:39:28 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Sun, 19 Jan 2020 20:04:15 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sun, 19 Jan 2020 14:05:40 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/118654829/no-time-to-care-is-there-a-crisis-in-caring-for-the-elderly
This is not the first indication of a move to reduce care for vulnerable or
less mobile elderly people by some providers.
Whatever the cause, perhaps this government should investigate and see if
funding needs adjustment.
I suspect it is already happening, Tony.
Useless remark. Do you know oir are you merely guseeing again?
There is a lot going on in relation to helping people with
difficulties - see for example:
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/407693/parent-welcomes-changes-to-funded-family-care
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/396492/families-settle-with-ministry-over-disabled-care-pay
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/367394/govt-to-look-at-changes-to-disabled-care-pay-policy
Post by Tony
It is a difficult industry -
Post by Rich80105
there are a large number of small contracts, employing largely part
time, middle aged ladies who fit this work around looking after
families.
How very patronising, and as it happens completely untrue.
Perhaps it is because I know 3 people that fit that description, and
have seen a number of others providing such services in a retirement
village (not village staff but separate contractors).
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
The funders have been under intense pressure to reduce costs
for over a decade - it has led to workers not being paid for travel to
and from work
Untrue again, that was addressed three years ago and all of the employees get
paid to travel after a certain distance (just like employees in virtually every
industry).
"A certain distance" sounds ominous, but of course as you have made
clear, all your settlements are just personal opinions.
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
, to having to provide their opwn transport and pay those
costs, and this for litle more than minimum wage with restrictions on
time they are allowed to spend with "clients." The DHBs still have
the cost of assessments, but now also pay for multiple contracts
(apparently for each client), monitoring of performance, as well as
charges that must of course include profit for the numerous care
employers. With minimum cost being the driving force, I suspect
contracts are now squeezing profit levels, but also there is
competition from that growing indutry, retirement villages and
hospital care facilities. They are the darlings of the sharemarket,
providing all those services at lower cost (after all their patients
are grouped together), and also they make most of their profits
through gains in property values, which mean they do not need other
than minimal profits from their clients.
All of which has nothing to do with the subject.
Really? Are you that thick that you cannot see the relevance?
Stilll, I respect that this is your opinion - it does not have to have
a basis in fact.
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
The lady in the article is almost certainly hoping to stay in her own
home for a bit longer, but like landlords, the industry providing the
services knows that stories like this can only be helpful in getting
greater subsidies to restore profit levels. We know that increasing
the ability for students to borrow or increasing benefit levels has
merely led to higher rents for students and the poor.
Which has what to do with the subject?
Directly relevant - providing more money may just increase the cost of
services without affecting the level or quality of services. But then
you clerly do not understand how free markets work - are you one of
those socialists, Tony?
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Do you have any suggestions for improving the concerns of vulnerable
or less mobile elderly people, care workers under instructions to
reduce time spent, huge administrative costs, and an unfaior market
that pitches companies providing services against large coporates who
rovide similar services as an adjunct to tax efficient structures that
exploit rising property values?
What nonsense, these services are funded by the government - get a life and
start to twll the truth occasionally.
Why is it nonsense to ask if you see any way of resolving problems you
have identified? Obviously you must be an ignorant communist.
Post by Tony
Irrelevant policial comment on the opposition.
I have noteds that you are prone to deleting parts of posts that you
are unable to answer. I agree with your implication that the
opposition has nothing to offer.
Tony
2020-01-21 00:32:33 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Sun, 19 Jan 2020 20:04:15 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sun, 19 Jan 2020 14:05:40 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/118654829/no-time-to-care-is-there-a-crisis-in-caring-for-the-elderly
This is not the first indication of a move to reduce care for vulnerable or
less mobile elderly people by some providers.
Whatever the cause, perhaps this government should investigate and see if
funding needs adjustment.
I suspect it is already happening, Tony.
Useless remark. Do you know oir are you merely guseeing again?
There is a lot going on in relation to helping people with
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/407693/parent-welcomes-changes-to-funded-family-care
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/396492/families-settle-with-ministry-over-disabled-care-pay
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/367394/govt-to-look-at-changes-to-disabled-care-pay-policy
Still nothing of consequence.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
It is a difficult industry -
Post by Rich80105
there are a large number of small contracts, employing largely part
time, middle aged ladies who fit this work around looking after
families.
How very patronising, and as it happens completely untrue.
Perhaps it is because I know 3 people that fit that description, and
have seen a number of others providing such services in a retirement
village (not village staff but separate contractors).
It is still incorrect. It is clar that I know much more about that industry
than you do. And whatever the truth is you were patronising. Not vey nice of
you.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
The funders have been under intense pressure to reduce costs
for over a decade - it has led to workers not being paid for travel to
and from work
Untrue again, that was addressed three years ago and all of the employees get
paid to travel after a certain distance (just like employees in virtually every
industry).
Post by Rich80105
, to having to provide their opwn transport and pay those
costs, and this for litle more than minimum wage with restrictions on
time they are allowed to spend with "clients." The DHBs still have
the cost of assessments, but now also pay for multiple contracts
(apparently for each client), monitoring of performance, as well as
charges that must of course include profit for the numerous care
employers. With minimum cost being the driving force, I suspect
contracts are now squeezing profit levels, but also there is
competition from that growing indutry, retirement villages and
hospital care facilities. They are the darlings of the sharemarket,
providing all those services at lower cost (after all their patients
are grouped together), and also they make most of their profits
through gains in property values, which mean they do not need other
than minimal profits from their clients.
All of which has nothing to do with the subject.
Post by Rich80105
The lady in the article is almost certainly hoping to stay in her own
home for a bit longer, but like landlords, the industry providing the
services knows that stories like this can only be helpful in getting
greater subsidies to restore profit levels. We know that increasing
the ability for students to borrow or increasing benefit levels has
merely led to higher rents for students and the poor.
Which has what to do with the subject?
Post by Rich80105
Do you have any suggestions for improving the concerns of vulnerable
or less mobile elderly people, care workers under instructions to
reduce time spent, huge administrative costs, and an unfaior market
that pitches companies providing services against large coporates who
rovide similar services as an adjunct to tax efficient structures that
exploit rising property values?
What nonsense, these services are funded by the government - get a life and
start to twll the truth occasionally.
Why is it nonsense to ask if you see any way of resolving problems you
have identified? Obviously you must be an ignorant communist.
Post by Tony
Irrelevant policial comment on the opposition.
The rest of your abusive drivel and off-topic removed.
Tony
2020-01-21 01:36:40 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sun, 19 Jan 2020 20:04:15 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sun, 19 Jan 2020 14:05:40 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/118654829/no-time-to-care-is-there-a-crisis-in-caring-for-the-elderly
This is not the first indication of a move to reduce care for vulnerable or
less mobile elderly people by some providers.
Whatever the cause, perhaps this government should investigate and see if
funding needs adjustment.
I suspect it is already happening, Tony.
Useless remark. Do you know oir are you merely guseeing again?
There is a lot going on in relation to helping people with
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/407693/parent-welcomes-changes-to-funded-family-care
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/396492/families-settle-with-ministry-over-disabled-care-pay
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/367394/govt-to-look-at-changes-to-disabled-care-pay-policy
Still nothing of consequence.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
It is a difficult industry -
Post by Rich80105
there are a large number of small contracts, employing largely part
time, middle aged ladies who fit this work around looking after
families.
How very patronising, and as it happens completely untrue.
Perhaps it is because I know 3 people that fit that description, and
have seen a number of others providing such services in a retirement
village (not village staff but separate contractors).
It is still incorrect. It is clar that I know much more about that industry
than you do. And whatever the truth is you were patronising. Not vey nice of
you.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
The funders have been under intense pressure to reduce costs
for over a decade - it has led to workers not being paid for travel to
and from work
Untrue again, that was addressed three years ago and all of the employees get
paid to travel after a certain distance (just like employees in virtually every
industry).
Post by Rich80105
, to having to provide their opwn transport and pay those
costs, and this for litle more than minimum wage with restrictions on
time they are allowed to spend with "clients." The DHBs still have
the cost of assessments, but now also pay for multiple contracts
(apparently for each client), monitoring of performance, as well as
charges that must of course include profit for the numerous care
employers. With minimum cost being the driving force, I suspect
contracts are now squeezing profit levels, but also there is
competition from that growing indutry, retirement villages and
hospital care facilities. They are the darlings of the sharemarket,
providing all those services at lower cost (after all their patients
are grouped together), and also they make most of their profits
through gains in property values, which mean they do not need other
than minimal profits from their clients.
All of which has nothing to do with the subject.
Post by Rich80105
The lady in the article is almost certainly hoping to stay in her own
home for a bit longer, but like landlords, the industry providing the
services knows that stories like this can only be helpful in getting
greater subsidies to restore profit levels. We know that increasing
the ability for students to borrow or increasing benefit levels has
merely led to higher rents for students and the poor.
Which has what to do with the subject?
Post by Rich80105
Do you have any suggestions for improving the concerns of vulnerable
or less mobile elderly people, care workers under instructions to
reduce time spent, huge administrative costs, and an unfaior market
that pitches companies providing services against large coporates who
rovide similar services as an adjunct to tax efficient structures that
exploit rising property values?
What nonsense, these services are funded by the government - get a life and
start to twll the truth occasionally.
Oops missed some abusive drivel, there that's better!
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Irrelevant policial comment on the opposition.
The rest of your abusive drivel and off-topic removed.
Rich80105
2020-01-21 01:48:38 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Mon, 20 Jan 2020 18:32:33 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sun, 19 Jan 2020 20:04:15 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sun, 19 Jan 2020 14:05:40 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/118654829/no-time-to-care-is-there-a-crisis-in-caring-for-the-elderly
This is not the first indication of a move to reduce care for vulnerable or
less mobile elderly people by some providers.
Whatever the cause, perhaps this government should investigate and see if
funding needs adjustment.
I suspect it is already happening, Tony.
Useless remark. Do you know oir are you merely guseeing again?
There is a lot going on in relation to helping people with
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/407693/parent-welcomes-changes-to-funded-family-care
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/396492/families-settle-with-ministry-over-disabled-care-pay
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/367394/govt-to-look-at-changes-to-disabled-care-pay-policy
Still nothing of consequence.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
It is a difficult industry -
Post by Rich80105
there are a large number of small contracts, employing largely part
time, middle aged ladies who fit this work around looking after
families.
How very patronising, and as it happens completely untrue.
Perhaps it is because I know 3 people that fit that description, and
have seen a number of others providing such services in a retirement
village (not village staff but separate contractors).
It is still incorrect. It is clar that I know much more about that industry
than you do. And whatever the truth is you were patronising. Not vey nice of
you.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
The funders have been under intense pressure to reduce costs
for over a decade - it has led to workers not being paid for travel to
and from work
Untrue again, that was addressed three years ago and all of the employees get
paid to travel after a certain distance (just like employees in virtually every
industry).
Post by Rich80105
, to having to provide their opwn transport and pay those
costs, and this for litle more than minimum wage with restrictions on
time they are allowed to spend with "clients." The DHBs still have
the cost of assessments, but now also pay for multiple contracts
(apparently for each client), monitoring of performance, as well as
charges that must of course include profit for the numerous care
employers. With minimum cost being the driving force, I suspect
contracts are now squeezing profit levels, but also there is
competition from that growing indutry, retirement villages and
hospital care facilities. They are the darlings of the sharemarket,
providing all those services at lower cost (after all their patients
are grouped together), and also they make most of their profits
through gains in property values, which mean they do not need other
than minimal profits from their clients.
All of which has nothing to do with the subject.
Post by Rich80105
The lady in the article is almost certainly hoping to stay in her own
home for a bit longer, but like landlords, the industry providing the
services knows that stories like this can only be helpful in getting
greater subsidies to restore profit levels. We know that increasing
the ability for students to borrow or increasing benefit levels has
merely led to higher rents for students and the poor.
Which has what to do with the subject?
Post by Rich80105
Do you have any suggestions for improving the concerns of vulnerable
or less mobile elderly people, care workers under instructions to
reduce time spent, huge administrative costs, and an unfaior market
that pitches companies providing services against large coporates who
rovide similar services as an adjunct to tax efficient structures that
exploit rising property values?
What nonsense, these services are funded by the government - get a life and
start to twll the truth occasionally.
Why is it nonsense to ask if you see any way of resolving problems you
have identified? Obviously you must be an ignorant communist.
Post by Tony
Irrelevant policial comment on the opposition.
The rest of your abusive drivel and off-topic removed.
I have noticed that you do not just ignore questions you do not wish
to answer, but delete them in the hope your arrogance and rudeness in
a group forum will make the questions go away . . .

You have not given your thoughts on how to improve the situation -
perhaps you have none.
Rich80105
2020-01-21 02:12:43 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Mon, 20 Jan 2020 20:02:06 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 20 Jan 2020 18:32:33 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sun, 19 Jan 2020 20:04:15 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sun, 19 Jan 2020 14:05:40 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/118654829/no-time-to-care-is-there-a-crisis-in-caring-for-the-elderly
This is not the first indication of a move to reduce care for vulnerable or
less mobile elderly people by some providers.
Whatever the cause, perhaps this government should investigate and see if
funding needs adjustment.
I suspect it is already happening, Tony.
Useless remark. Do you know oir are you merely guseeing again?
There is a lot going on in relation to helping people with
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/407693/parent-welcomes-changes-to-funded-family-care
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/396492/families-settle-with-ministry-over-disabled-care-pay
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/367394/govt-to-look-at-changes-to-disabled-care-pay-policy
Still nothing of consequence.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
It is a difficult industry -
Post by Rich80105
there are a large number of small contracts, employing largely part
time, middle aged ladies who fit this work around looking after
families.
How very patronising, and as it happens completely untrue.
Perhaps it is because I know 3 people that fit that description, and
have seen a number of others providing such services in a retirement
village (not village staff but separate contractors).
It is still incorrect. It is clar that I know much more about that industry
than you do. And whatever the truth is you were patronising. Not vey nice of
you.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
The funders have been under intense pressure to reduce costs
for over a decade - it has led to workers not being paid for travel to
and from work
Untrue again, that was addressed three years ago and all of the employees get
paid to travel after a certain distance (just like employees in virtually every
industry).
Post by Rich80105
, to having to provide their opwn transport and pay those
costs, and this for litle more than minimum wage with restrictions on
time they are allowed to spend with "clients." The DHBs still have
the cost of assessments, but now also pay for multiple contracts
(apparently for each client), monitoring of performance, as well as
charges that must of course include profit for the numerous care
employers. With minimum cost being the driving force, I suspect
contracts are now squeezing profit levels, but also there is
competition from that growing indutry, retirement villages and
hospital care facilities. They are the darlings of the sharemarket,
providing all those services at lower cost (after all their patients
are grouped together), and also they make most of their profits
through gains in property values, which mean they do not need other
than minimal profits from their clients.
All of which has nothing to do with the subject.
Post by Rich80105
The lady in the article is almost certainly hoping to stay in her own
home for a bit longer, but like landlords, the industry providing the
services knows that stories like this can only be helpful in getting
greater subsidies to restore profit levels. We know that increasing
the ability for students to borrow or increasing benefit levels has
merely led to higher rents for students and the poor.
Which has what to do with the subject?
Post by Rich80105
Do you have any suggestions for improving the concerns of vulnerable
or less mobile elderly people, care workers under instructions to
reduce time spent, huge administrative costs, and an unfaior market
that pitches companies providing services against large coporates who
rovide similar services as an adjunct to tax efficient structures that
exploit rising property values?
What nonsense, these services are funded by the government - get a life and
start to twll the truth occasionally.
Why is it nonsense to ask if you see any way of resolving problems you
have identified? Obviously you must be an ignorant communist.
Post by Tony
Irrelevant policial comment on the opposition.
The rest of your abusive drivel and off-topic removed.
Off topic abuse removed.
Rich, keep on topic and avoid abuse and I will debate with you, otherwise piss
off.
You raised a topic, suggesting that the government review it. I give
you examples to demonstrate that the broad topic is under government
review, give some of my views, and ask about any suggestions for
improvement. You dismiss everything I said, abuse me, and delete the
opportunity for you to constructively debate the issue. You never
debate, Tony; you regard your opinions as being the voice of God and
above mere debate.

You appear to share at least some views with Scott Morrison:
https://independentaustralia.net/politics/politics-display/scott-morrisons-religion-and-the-bushfire-crisis,13344

Why would anyone want to debate with your closed mind, Tony? I post to
nz.general, and contrary to your clear view, there are other readers
and posters to that group.
Tony
2020-01-21 02:31:34 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 20 Jan 2020 20:02:06 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 20 Jan 2020 18:32:33 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sun, 19 Jan 2020 20:04:15 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sun, 19 Jan 2020 14:05:40 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/118654829/no-time-to-care-is-there-a-crisis-in-caring-for-the-elderly
This is not the first indication of a move to reduce care for
vulnerable
or
less mobile elderly people by some providers.
Whatever the cause, perhaps this government should investigate and see if
funding needs adjustment.
I suspect it is already happening, Tony.
Useless remark. Do you know oir are you merely guseeing again?
There is a lot going on in relation to helping people with
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/407693/parent-welcomes-changes-to-funded-family-care
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/396492/families-settle-with-ministry-over-disabled-care-pay
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/367394/govt-to-look-at-changes-to-disabled-care-pay-policy
Still nothing of consequence.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
It is a difficult industry -
Post by Rich80105
there are a large number of small contracts, employing largely part
time, middle aged ladies who fit this work around looking after
families.
How very patronising, and as it happens completely untrue.
Perhaps it is because I know 3 people that fit that description, and
have seen a number of others providing such services in a retirement
village (not village staff but separate contractors).
It is still incorrect. It is clar that I know much more about that industry
than you do. And whatever the truth is you were patronising. Not vey nice of
you.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
The funders have been under intense pressure to reduce costs
for over a decade - it has led to workers not being paid for travel to
and from work
Untrue again, that was addressed three years ago and all of the employees get
paid to travel after a certain distance (just like employees in virtually every
industry).
Post by Rich80105
, to having to provide their opwn transport and pay those
costs, and this for litle more than minimum wage with restrictions on
time they are allowed to spend with "clients." The DHBs still have
the cost of assessments, but now also pay for multiple contracts
(apparently for each client), monitoring of performance, as well as
charges that must of course include profit for the numerous care
employers. With minimum cost being the driving force, I suspect
contracts are now squeezing profit levels, but also there is
competition from that growing indutry, retirement villages and
hospital care facilities. They are the darlings of the sharemarket,
providing all those services at lower cost (after all their patients
are grouped together), and also they make most of their profits
through gains in property values, which mean they do not need other
than minimal profits from their clients.
All of which has nothing to do with the subject.
Post by Rich80105
The lady in the article is almost certainly hoping to stay in her own
home for a bit longer, but like landlords, the industry providing the
services knows that stories like this can only be helpful in getting
greater subsidies to restore profit levels. We know that increasing
the ability for students to borrow or increasing benefit levels has
merely led to higher rents for students and the poor.
Which has what to do with the subject?
Post by Rich80105
Do you have any suggestions for improving the concerns of vulnerable
or less mobile elderly people, care workers under instructions to
reduce time spent, huge administrative costs, and an unfaior market
that pitches companies providing services against large coporates who
rovide similar services as an adjunct to tax efficient structures that
exploit rising property values?
What nonsense, these services are funded by the government - get a life and
start to twll the truth occasionally.
Why is it nonsense to ask if you see any way of resolving problems you
have identified? Obviously you must be an ignorant communist.
Post by Tony
Irrelevant policial comment on the opposition.
The rest of your abusive drivel and off-topic removed.
Off topic abuse removed.
Rich, keep on topic and avoid abuse and I will debate with you, otherwise piss
off.
You raised a topic, suggesting that the government review it. I give
you examples to demonstrate that the broad topic is under government
review, give some of my views, and ask about any suggestions for
improvement.
Liar - look back - you were, as always, the abuser. I did not abuse you. Read
what you wrote.
I will continue to delete your abuse and I shall continue to remove off-topic
posts.
John Bowes
2020-01-21 04:35:25 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 20 Jan 2020 18:32:33 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sun, 19 Jan 2020 20:04:15 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sun, 19 Jan 2020 14:05:40 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/118654829/no-time-to-care-is-there-a-crisis-in-caring-for-the-elderly
This is not the first indication of a move to reduce care for vulnerable or
less mobile elderly people by some providers.
Whatever the cause, perhaps this government should investigate and see if
funding needs adjustment.
I suspect it is already happening, Tony.
Useless remark. Do you know oir are you merely guseeing again?
There is a lot going on in relation to helping people with
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/407693/parent-welcomes-changes-to-funded-family-care
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/396492/families-settle-with-ministry-over-disabled-care-pay
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/367394/govt-to-look-at-changes-to-disabled-care-pay-policy
Still nothing of consequence.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
It is a difficult industry -
Post by Rich80105
there are a large number of small contracts, employing largely part
time, middle aged ladies who fit this work around looking after
families.
How very patronising, and as it happens completely untrue.
Perhaps it is because I know 3 people that fit that description, and
have seen a number of others providing such services in a retirement
village (not village staff but separate contractors).
It is still incorrect. It is clar that I know much more about that industry
than you do. And whatever the truth is you were patronising. Not vey nice of
you.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
The funders have been under intense pressure to reduce costs
for over a decade - it has led to workers not being paid for travel to
and from work
Untrue again, that was addressed three years ago and all of the employees get
paid to travel after a certain distance (just like employees in virtually every
industry).
Post by Rich80105
, to having to provide their opwn transport and pay those
costs, and this for litle more than minimum wage with restrictions on
time they are allowed to spend with "clients." The DHBs still have
the cost of assessments, but now also pay for multiple contracts
(apparently for each client), monitoring of performance, as well as
charges that must of course include profit for the numerous care
employers. With minimum cost being the driving force, I suspect
contracts are now squeezing profit levels, but also there is
competition from that growing indutry, retirement villages and
hospital care facilities. They are the darlings of the sharemarket,
providing all those services at lower cost (after all their patients
are grouped together), and also they make most of their profits
through gains in property values, which mean they do not need other
than minimal profits from their clients.
All of which has nothing to do with the subject.
Post by Rich80105
The lady in the article is almost certainly hoping to stay in her own
home for a bit longer, but like landlords, the industry providing the
services knows that stories like this can only be helpful in getting
greater subsidies to restore profit levels. We know that increasing
the ability for students to borrow or increasing benefit levels has
merely led to higher rents for students and the poor.
Which has what to do with the subject?
Post by Rich80105
Do you have any suggestions for improving the concerns of vulnerable
or less mobile elderly people, care workers under instructions to
reduce time spent, huge administrative costs, and an unfaior market
that pitches companies providing services against large coporates who
rovide similar services as an adjunct to tax efficient structures that
exploit rising property values?
What nonsense, these services are funded by the government - get a life and
start to twll the truth occasionally.
Why is it nonsense to ask if you see any way of resolving problems you
have identified? Obviously you must be an ignorant communist.
Post by Tony
Irrelevant policial comment on the opposition.
The rest of your abusive drivel and off-topic removed.
I have noticed that you do not just ignore questions you do not wish
to answer, but delete them in the hope your arrogance and rudeness in
a group forum will make the questions go away . . .
You have not given your thoughts on how to improve the situation -
perhaps you have none.
You rich are just a loopy left wing loon! You've just described your very own attitude to embarrassing questions! On top of that your legendary lack of comprehension leaves you looking like an abusive idiot following the left wing rule book about how to kill debate!
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