Discussion:
Planning our Hellscape
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Willy Nilly
2021-09-24 23:55:30 UTC
Permalink
That's what Government is considering, that after reaching the desired
vaccination target (which is a moving target, BTW), they will open the
borders, but instead of freeing the people, they will launch into new
masking rules, lockdowns, and booster shot targets.

Human rights will become just another conspiracy theory, it seems.
JohnO
2021-09-26 20:27:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Willy Nilly
That's what Government is considering, that after reaching the desired
vaccination target (which is a moving target, BTW), they will open the
borders, but instead of freeing the people, they will launch into new
masking rules, lockdowns, and booster shot targets.
Human rights will become just another conspiracy theory, it seems.
They are progressively entrenching 90% in the messaging. Aside from micro-states, nobody has got anywhere near 90% and neither will we. Say hello to perpetual restrictions under this government.
Gordon
2021-09-26 20:56:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by JohnO
Post by Willy Nilly
That's what Government is considering, that after reaching the desired
vaccination target (which is a moving target, BTW), they will open the
borders, but instead of freeing the people, they will launch into new
masking rules, lockdowns, and booster shot targets.
Human rights will become just another conspiracy theory, it seems.
They are progressively entrenching 90% in the messaging. Aside from micro-states, nobody has got anywhere near 90% and neither will we. Say hello to perpetual restrictions under this government.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/300414293/covid19-icu-staff-plead-for-kiwis-to-be-vaccinated-amid-bed-nurse-shortage

Some sobering reading. Here are the people at the front line who have no
political axe to grind telling us that even as business as usual the whole
ICU is about to fall over. Almost certainly will with any amount of Covid
deaths.

Rich, please come in as you pointed out that the previous National
Government was/had run down the health system.

I note the 7000 deaths figure for now 75% vaccination rate is also being
hammered home. 50 deaths/yr at 90% vaccination rate.

I assume the 5 figure is for the ones who can have the vaccine, 5+ or 12+.
John Bowes
2021-09-26 21:26:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gordon
Post by JohnO
Post by Willy Nilly
That's what Government is considering, that after reaching the desired
vaccination target (which is a moving target, BTW), they will open the
borders, but instead of freeing the people, they will launch into new
masking rules, lockdowns, and booster shot targets.
Human rights will become just another conspiracy theory, it seems.
They are progressively entrenching 90% in the messaging. Aside from micro-states, nobody has got anywhere near 90% and neither will we. Say hello to perpetual restrictions under this government.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/300414293/covid19-icu-staff-plead-for-kiwis-to-be-vaccinated-amid-bed-nurse-shortage
Some sobering reading. Here are the people at the front line who have no
political axe to grind telling us that even as business as usual the whole
ICU is about to fall over. Almost certainly will with any amount of Covid
deaths.
That is one of the reasons the nurses are striking!
Post by Gordon
Rich, please come in as you pointed out that the previous National
Government was/had run down the health system.
He'll be quite happy to blame National. Conveniently ignoring the fact the current government is in the process of making our health system resemble a that of the worse health systems in thrd world county's!
Post by Gordon
I note the 7000 deaths figure for now 75% vaccination rate is also being
hammered home. 50 deaths/yr at 90% vaccination rate.
I assume the 5 figure is for the ones who can have the vaccine, 5+ or 12+.
With this government it probably is a misprint and should have read 65 ;)
Rich80105
2021-09-27 00:47:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gordon
Post by JohnO
Post by Willy Nilly
That's what Government is considering, that after reaching the desired
vaccination target (which is a moving target, BTW), they will open the
borders, but instead of freeing the people, they will launch into new
masking rules, lockdowns, and booster shot targets.
Human rights will become just another conspiracy theory, it seems.
They are progressively entrenching 90% in the messaging. Aside from micro-states, nobody has got anywhere near 90% and neither will we. Say hello to perpetual restrictions under this government.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/300414293/covid19-icu-staff-plead-for-kiwis-to-be-vaccinated-amid-bed-nurse-shortage
Some sobering reading. Here are the people at the front line who have no
political axe to grind telling us that even as business as usual the whole
ICU is about to fall over. Almost certainly will with any amount of Covid
deaths.
Rich, please come in as you pointed out that the previous National
Government was/had run down the health system.
I note the 7000 deaths figure for now 75% vaccination rate is also being
hammered home. 50 deaths/yr at 90% vaccination rate.
I assume the 5 figure is for the ones who can have the vaccine, 5+ or 12+.
Gordon, I replied to JohnO before I saw your response. How we got to
our current situation regarding health resources is not particularly
relevant to how we deal with the current pandemic - it is what it is.
I said:
"The aim is still 100% (those with medical exemptions being included
in the total of course).

Given that the vaccine is not 100% effective, we will stil see some
get covid, some of those being asymptomatic, and all being
potentially infectious. We do not yet know whether under-5s will be
able to be vaccinated, we do not know how rapidly vaccine
effectiveness will last (those getting vaccinated now may have an
advantage over those vaccinated early), and we do not know if we will
get another variant worse than Delta. Some level pf preparedness is
appropriate, and it would be wrong to forever rule out level 4 (and
some are calling for levels 3 and 4 to be permanently done away with."

From what we hear, Covid deaths are often particularly painful,
difficult and distressing for the person dying, family and all medical
staff. Regardless of the level of our medical preparedness, common
humanity suggestes that we limit the number of people being infected
as much as possible. As we have seen, Covid infections are higjly
infectious; we have seen what lowering restrictions too far while
there are still cases in the community has done in New South Wales.
Treating even a single case in the community like we do a road death
would be a recipe for disaster.

Rich80105
2021-09-26 21:37:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by JohnO
Post by Willy Nilly
That's what Government is considering, that after reaching the desired
vaccination target (which is a moving target, BTW), they will open the
borders, but instead of freeing the people, they will launch into new
masking rules, lockdowns, and booster shot targets.
Human rights will become just another conspiracy theory, it seems.
They are progressively entrenching 90% in the messaging. Aside from micro-states, nobody has got anywhere near 90% and neither will we. Say hello to perpetual restrictions under this government.
The aim is still 100% (those with medical exemptions being included in
the total of course).

Given that the vaccine is not 100% effective, we will stil see some
get covid, some of those being asymptomatic, and all being
potentially infectious. We do not yet know whether under-5s will be
able to be vaccinated, we do not know how rapidly vaccine
effectiveness will last (those getting vaccinated now may have an
advantage over those vaccinated early), and we do not know if we will
get another variant worse than Delta. Some level pf preparedness is
appropriate, and it would be wrong to foever rule out level 4 (and
some are calling for levels 3 and 4 to be pernmanently done away with.

Calls for certainly in an uncertain world are signs of mental
fragility, inability to grasp complexities, immaturity and
self-centeredness. Who does that remind you of?
Tony
2021-09-27 00:47:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
Post by JohnO
Post by Willy Nilly
That's what Government is considering, that after reaching the desired
vaccination target (which is a moving target, BTW), they will open the
borders, but instead of freeing the people, they will launch into new
masking rules, lockdowns, and booster shot targets.
Human rights will become just another conspiracy theory, it seems.
They are progressively entrenching 90% in the messaging. Aside from
micro-states, nobody has got anywhere near 90% and neither will we. Say hello
to perpetual restrictions under this government.
The aim is still 100% (those with medical exemptions being included in
the total of course).
Given that the vaccine is not 100% effective, we will stil see some
get covid, some of those being asymptomatic, and all being
potentially infectious. We do not yet know whether under-5s will be
able to be vaccinated, we do not know how rapidly vaccine
effectiveness will last (those getting vaccinated now may have an
advantage over those vaccinated early), and we do not know if we will
get another variant worse than Delta. Some level pf preparedness is
appropriate, and it would be wrong to foever rule out level 4 (and
some are calling for levels 3 and 4 to be pernmanently done away with.
Calls for certainly in an uncertain world are signs of mental
fragility, inability to grasp complexities, immaturity and
self-centeredness.
Nonsense, that is patently absurd, you are describing 90% of the earth's
inhabitants.
Those who believe, quite correctly, that the government has a duty to plan and
to publish those plans. If there is uncertainty then build alternatives into
the plan. Businesses have been doing that successfully for centuries as have
armies and believe it or not most governments but not this one.
Post by Rich80105
Who does that remind you of?
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