Discussion:
Poor diplomacy
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Tony
2020-03-13 21:35:47 UTC
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Whether we agree with the Australian law or not our PM should not dress down
another PM in public - she went too far.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/120232586/jacinda-arderns-public-spat-with-scott-morrison-was-embarrassing
John Bowes
2020-03-14 00:06:01 UTC
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Post by Tony
Whether we agree with the Australian law or not our PM should not dress down
another PM in public - she went too far.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/120232586/jacinda-arderns-public-spat-with-scott-morrison-was-embarrassing
I have to agree with you on this Rich. But she's typical of spoilt brats the world over Rich.
John Bowes
2020-03-14 03:40:46 UTC
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Post by John Bowes
Post by Tony
Whether we agree with the Australian law or not our PM should not dress down
another PM in public - she went too far.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/120232586/jacinda-arderns-public-spat-with-scott-morrison-was-embarrassing
I have to agree with you on this Rich. But she's typical of spoilt brats the world over Rich.
Sorry Tony. Getting senile if I'm confusing you with Rich :)
Tony
2020-03-14 04:01:21 UTC
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Post by John Bowes
Post by John Bowes
Post by Tony
Whether we agree with the Australian law or not our PM should not dress down
another PM in public - she went too far.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/120232586/jacinda-arderns-public-spat-with-scott-morrison-was-embarrassing
I have to agree with you on this Rich. But she's typical of spoilt brats the
world over Rich.
Sorry Tony. Getting senile if I'm confusing you with Rich :)
Hey John, an honest mistake.
Most of us make honest mistakes - some tell lies.
John Bowes
2020-03-14 05:48:48 UTC
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Post by Tony
Post by John Bowes
Post by John Bowes
Post by Tony
Whether we agree with the Australian law or not our PM should not dress down
another PM in public - she went too far.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/120232586/jacinda-arderns-public-spat-with-scott-morrison-was-embarrassing
I have to agree with you on this Rich. But she's typical of spoilt brats the
world over Rich.
Sorry Tony. Getting senile if I'm confusing you with Rich :)
Hey John, an honest mistake.
Most of us make honest mistakes - some tell lies.
True :)
George
2020-03-14 19:05:59 UTC
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On Fri, 13 Mar 2020 17:06:01 -0700 (PDT)
On Saturday, March 14, 2020 at 10:35:53 AM UTC+13,
Post by Tony
Whether we agree with the Australian law or not our PM should not
dress down another PM in public - she went too far.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/120232586/jacinda-arderns-public-spat-with-scott-morrison-was-embarrassing
I have to agree with you on this Rich. But she's typical of spoilt
brats the world over Rich.
Expect Aussie to pull back from Cindy things...
The toilet paper fiasco
Returning all those who entered Australia from NZ with a brand new NZ
citizenship
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James Christophers
2020-03-14 00:22:46 UTC
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Post by Tony
Whether we agree with the Australian law or not our PM should not dress down
another PM in public - she went too far.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/120232586/jacinda-arderns-public-spat-with-scott-morrison-was-embarrassing
She’s used blunt force, yes, and I think in this instance it was clumsy and misplaced. But she’s also usefully brought into focus the gross asymmetry that exists between the two countries in terms of their ways of treating each other’s citizens and the fact that immigrant Australian “Kiwis” get a far better deal from the get-go than “Okker” Kiwis across the Tasman. So is it OK for us to continue keeping this blatantly unsatisfactory situation under the carpet simply to keep a neighbour sweet? If so, why would that ultimately be a good thing for us?

(Permit me to expand a little further...)

Boiled down, his is about differing rules governing citizenship and, as I understand it, Australia is way more selective than New Zealand when it comes to conferring citizenship rights and privileges on Kiwi incomers, even to their “immigrant” offspring subsequently born in-country[1]. Bear in mind also that, in my view at least, the likes of Morrison would be first in line to strip his own country’s indigenous of their citizenship if they could get away with it.

[1] During the early 1970’s, my great-niece was born to British parents temporarily domiciled for five years in Washington as part of a diplomatic corps. At birth she automatically received American citizenship and to this day continues to hold a full US passport. She is also 100% entitled to run for POTUS any time she fancies taking a crack at it. And this, mark you, in a country that, (possibly) apart from Israel, is notorious for its overweening, flag-hugging exceptionalism.

Consider, now, flyspeck Morrison’s brand of brute, shutter-minded “exceptionalism” and what it really says about him and those who have elected him to office.
Tony
2020-03-14 01:16:41 UTC
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Post by Tony
Whether we agree with the Australian law or not our PM should not dress down
another PM in public - she went too far.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/120232586/jacinda-arderns-public-spat-with-scott-morrison-was-embarrassing
She’s used blunt force, yes, and I think in this instance it was clumsy and
misplaced. But she’s also usefully brought into focus the gross asymmetry
that exists between the two countries in terms of their ways of treating each
other’s citizens and the fact that immigrant Australian “Kiwis” get a far
better deal from the get-go than “Okker” Kiwis across the Tasman. So is it
OK for us to continue keeping this blatantly unsatisfactory situation under the
carpet simply to keep a neighbour sweet? If so, why would that ultimately be a
good thing for us?
(Permit me to expand a little further...)
Boiled down, his is about differing rules governing citizenship and, as I
understand it, Australia is way more selective than New Zealand when it comes
to conferring citizenship rights and privileges on Kiwi incomers, even to their
“immigrant” offspring subsequently born in-country[1]. Bear in mind also
that, in my view at least, the likes of Morrison would be first in line to
strip his own country’s indigenous of their citizenship if they could get
away with it.
[1] During the early 1970’s, my great-niece was born to British parents
temporarily domiciled for five years in Washington as part of a diplomatic
corps. At birth she automatically received American citizenship and to this
day continues to hold a full US passport. She is also 100% entitled to run for
POTUS any time she fancies taking a crack at it. And this, mark you, in a
country that, (possibly) apart from Israel, is notorious for its overweening,
flag-hugging exceptionalism.
Consider, now, flyspeck Morrison’s brand of brute, shutter-minded
“exceptionalism” and what it really says about him and those who have
elected him to office.
I agree with what you have written about Morrison, a product of racist
attitudes and not all that bright.
However I for one was well aware of the disparity between our two countries in
this regard and I suspect 90% of New Zealanders were also therefore I was
disappointed with Ardern's "tirade".
James Christophers
2020-03-14 02:33:42 UTC
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Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Whether we agree with the Australian law or not our PM should not dress down
another PM in public - she went too far.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/120232586/jacinda-arderns-public-spat-with-scott-morrison-was-embarrassing
She’s used blunt force, yes, and I think in this instance it was clumsy and
misplaced. But she’s also usefully brought into focus the gross asymmetry
that exists between the two countries in terms of their ways of treating each
other’s citizens and the fact that immigrant Australian “Kiwis” get a far
better deal from the get-go than “Okker” Kiwis across the Tasman. So is it
OK for us to continue keeping this blatantly unsatisfactory situation under the
carpet simply to keep a neighbour sweet? If so, why would that ultimately be a
good thing for us?
(Permit me to expand a little further...)
Boiled down, his is about differing rules governing citizenship and, as I
understand it, Australia is way more selective than New Zealand when it comes
to conferring citizenship rights and privileges on Kiwi incomers, even to their
“immigrant” offspring subsequently born in-country[1]. Bear in mind also
that, in my view at least, the likes of Morrison would be first in line to
strip his own country’s indigenous of their citizenship if they could get
away with it.
[1] During the early 1970’s, my great-niece was born to British parents
temporarily domiciled for five years in Washington as part of a diplomatic
corps. At birth she automatically received American citizenship and to this
day continues to hold a full US passport. She is also 100% entitled to run for
POTUS any time she fancies taking a crack at it. And this, mark you, in a
country that, (possibly) apart from Israel, is notorious for its overweening,
flag-hugging exceptionalism.
Consider, now, flyspeck Morrison’s brand of brute, shutter-minded
“exceptionalism” and what it really says about him and those who have
elected him to office.
I agree with what you have written about Morrison, a product of racist
attitudes and not all that bright.
Apart from his inculcated racism which not only debases his high office but also demeans him personally in all his self-unawareness, the fires earlier this year exposed to the entire world a coarse, all-mouth-and-trousers man at his most incompetent and inept. A low-grade apology for a prime minster of ever there were. But if there's an overarching problem, it is that he has enough support from his beer-swilling red-necked constituency to continue in his ways with impunity.

Someone once laconically observed that Australia truly is "the lucky country" - in that, "Never before or since has such bottomless bounty been bestowed on such a mediocre bunch." And if there were ever a truer exemplar of that same egregious mediocrity than incumbent Morrison, I'd like to know who that person is.
Post by Tony
However I for one was well aware of the disparity between our two countries in
this regard and I suspect 90% of New Zealanders were also therefore I was
disappointed with Ardern's "tirade".
OK as far as it goes and siding with presumed fellow thinkers is all very well, but what does it achieve other than to further perpetuate a grizzling, sit-on-hands me-too solidarity, a pious comfort-blanket abstraction that can never be actioned in practice?

How can it be anything other than barking at the moon?

And my view on Ardern in relation to her plain-spoken strictures still holds. Too many countries and polticians get away with daylight murder for lack of any challenge to the diplomatic finesse and decorum that shield them from well-justified opprobrium. Sunlight is the best disinfectant.

Or does this country yet again button its lip and bend over..?
Crash
2020-03-14 01:59:21 UTC
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On Fri, 13 Mar 2020 16:35:47 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Whether we agree with the Australian law or not our PM should not dress down
another PM in public - she went too far.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/120232586/jacinda-arderns-public-spat-with-scott-morrison-was-embarrassing
That article is biased in a certain direction when it starts like
this:

"I've never understood why our Government has a problem with
Australia's deportation laws that allow it to send back our
criminals."

https://www.change.org/p/please-help-a-father-of-2-nz-born-australian-raised-facing-deportation

Now I am not highlighting fundraising efforts - but the story that it
tells of an Australian born in NZ and moved to Australia by his
parents at the age of 4. If he is a criminal, he is a criminal made
in Australia.

In general I support the Australian policy - but it should only apply
to adults who migrate to Australia as adults and choose a life of
crime.


--
Crash McBash
James Christophers
2020-03-14 02:42:29 UTC
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Post by Crash
On Fri, 13 Mar 2020 16:35:47 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Whether we agree with the Australian law or not our PM should not dress down
another PM in public - she went too far.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/120232586/jacinda-arderns-public-spat-with-scott-morrison-was-embarrassing
That article is biased in a certain direction when it starts like
"I've never understood why our Government has a problem with
Australia's deportation laws that allow it to send back our
criminals."
https://www.change.org/p/please-help-a-father-of-2-nz-born-australian-raised-facing-deportation
Now I am not highlighting fundraising efforts - but the story that it
tells of an Australian born in NZ and moved to Australia by his
parents at the age of 4. If he is a criminal, he is a criminal made
in Australia.
In general I support the Australian policy - but it should only apply
to adults who migrate to Australia as adults and choose a life of
crime.
What are the "character requirements" under Australian immigration laws, I wonder? Too often it seems that whatever they may be, they are routinely observed more in the breach than in the observance?

OK, it's an old joke, but there's somehow an ironic truth in the tale of the immigration officer who challenged a new arrival at the border with, "Any criminal convictions" - to which the newbie replied, "No one told me I needed any."
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