Discussion:
The overpowering stench around Winston is making the government smelly
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JohnO
2020-02-11 20:52:25 UTC
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So this shadowy NZFirst Foundation has been getting lots of money from fishing and racing interests. And it's all been put in there in a way that attempts to hide where it is coming from. And the foundation has been setup to hide and obscure how the money goes into the NZFirst political party.

And the NZFirst foundation is run by individuals very closely and for a very long time associated with Winston.

Yet Winston says, with a straight face, that NZFirst foundation is nothing to do with him! Does anyone seriously believe that?

Meanwhile, racing and fishing industry has been getting plenty of love and money from this Ardern/Labour "led" government.

And we still don't know what the coalition agreement between Labour and NZFirst says.

Corrupt.

Corrupt.

Corrupt.
Rich80105
2020-02-12 00:29:48 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by JohnO
So this shadowy NZFirst Foundation has been getting lots of money from fishing and racing interests. And it's all been put in there in a way that attempts to hide where it is coming from. And the foundation has been setup to hide and obscure how the money goes into the NZFirst political party.
It has been said that it was set up to exactly mirror the arrangements
the National Party uses.
Post by JohnO
And the NZFirst foundation is run by individuals very closely and for a very long time associated with Winston.
The the equivalent National Party fund is run by individuals very
xloesley and for a very long time associated with the various National
Party leaders.
Post by JohnO
Yet Winston says, with a straight face, that NZFirst foundation is nothing to do with him! Does anyone seriously believe that?
Probably to exactly the same extent as the National Party leader can
say that about their arrangements - except of course we know that
Jamie-Lee Ross made public a recording of the leader appearing to have
a very good idea as to how it was supposed to be used . . .
Post by JohnO
Meanwhile, racing and fishing industry has been getting plenty of love and money from this Ardern/Labour "led" government.
Meanwhile, Farming and Road Transport organisations have been getting
plenty of love and money from National-led government in the past
Post by JohnO
And we still don't know what the coalition agreement between Labour and NZFirst says.
And we still don;t know what the agrement is between National and ACT
- or what agreements were between National and the Maori Party
Post by JohnO
Corrupt.
National?
Post by JohnO
Corrupt.
or ACT?
Post by JohnO
Corrupt.
so having excluded working with NA First, where an investigation has
just started into NZ First donation arrangements, will Bridges rule
out working with the NAtional PArty, where 4 people have been charged?
Crash
2020-02-12 01:36:49 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
Post by JohnO
So this shadowy NZFirst Foundation has been getting lots of money from fishing and racing interests. And it's all been put in there in a way that attempts to hide where it is coming from. And the foundation has been setup to hide and obscure how the money goes into the NZFirst political party.
It has been said that it was set up to exactly mirror the arrangements
the National Party uses.
Whoever says this is incorrect. The National Foundation is open about
its purpose just visit their website. Try finding the equivalent data
on the NZ First Foundation.
Post by Rich80105
Post by JohnO
And the NZFirst foundation is run by individuals very closely and for a very long time associated with Winston.
The the equivalent National Party fund is run by individuals very
xloesley and for a very long time associated with the various National
Party leaders.
Post by JohnO
Yet Winston says, with a straight face, that NZFirst foundation is nothing to do with him! Does anyone seriously believe that?
Probably to exactly the same extent as the National Party leader can
say that about their arrangements - except of course we know that
Jamie-Lee Ross made public a recording of the leader appearing to have
a very good idea as to how it was supposed to be used . . .
The SFO has declined to investigate the Jamie Lee Ross allegations.
The SFO is investigating the NZ First Foundation, after a request by
the Electoral Commission to do so to the NZ Police was referred to
them.

Your rebuttal of what John O posted, so far, is baseless rhetoric.
Post by Rich80105
Post by JohnO
Meanwhile, racing and fishing industry has been getting plenty of love and money from this Ardern/Labour "led" government.
Meanwhile, Farming and Road Transport organisations have been getting
plenty of love and money from National-led government in the past
No such party donations have been received by National, unlike NZ
First who are part of the current government.
Post by Rich80105
Post by JohnO
And we still don't know what the coalition agreement between Labour and NZFirst says.
And we still don;t know what the agrement is between National and ACT
- or what agreements were between National and the Maori Party
Post by JohnO
Corrupt.
National?
You cannot cite that can you Rich?
Post by Rich80105
Post by JohnO
Corrupt.
or ACT?
Post by JohnO
Corrupt.
so having excluded working with NA First, where an investigation has
just started into NZ First donation arrangements, will Bridges rule
out working with the NAtional PArty, where 4 people have been charged?
Rich your attempt at hum our falls very flat and illustrates your
continual desperation to smear National.


--
Crash McBash
JohnO
2020-02-12 02:10:33 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
Post by JohnO
So this shadowy NZFirst Foundation has been getting lots of money from fishing and racing interests. And it's all been put in there in a way that attempts to hide where it is coming from. And the foundation has been setup to hide and obscure how the money goes into the NZFirst political party.
It has been said that it was set up to exactly mirror the arrangements
the National Party uses.
Whoever says this is incorrect. The National Foundation is open about
its purpose just visit their website. Try finding the equivalent data
on the NZ First Foundation.
Post by Rich80105
Post by JohnO
And the NZFirst foundation is run by individuals very closely and for a very long time associated with Winston.
The the equivalent National Party fund is run by individuals very
xloesley and for a very long time associated with the various National
Party leaders.
Post by JohnO
Yet Winston says, with a straight face, that NZFirst foundation is nothing to do with him! Does anyone seriously believe that?
Probably to exactly the same extent as the National Party leader can
say that about their arrangements - except of course we know that
Jamie-Lee Ross made public a recording of the leader appearing to have
a very good idea as to how it was supposed to be used . . .
The SFO has declined to investigate the Jamie Lee Ross allegations.
The SFO is investigating the NZ First Foundation, after a request by
the Electoral Commission to do so to the NZ Police was referred to
them.
Your rebuttal of what John O posted, so far, is baseless rhetoric.
Post by Rich80105
Post by JohnO
Meanwhile, racing and fishing industry has been getting plenty of love and money from this Ardern/Labour "led" government.
Meanwhile, Farming and Road Transport organisations have been getting
plenty of love and money from National-led government in the past
No such party donations have been received by National, unlike NZ
First who are part of the current government.
Post by Rich80105
Post by JohnO
And we still don't know what the coalition agreement between Labour and NZFirst says.
And we still don;t know what the agrement is between National and ACT
- or what agreements were between National and the Maori Party
Post by JohnO
Corrupt.
National?
You cannot cite that can you Rich?
Post by Rich80105
Post by JohnO
Corrupt.
or ACT?
Post by JohnO
Corrupt.
so having excluded working with NA First, where an investigation has
just started into NZ First donation arrangements, will Bridges rule
out working with the NAtional PArty, where 4 people have been charged?
Rich your attempt at hum our falls very flat and illustrates your
continual desperation to smear National.
--
Crash McBash
Thanks for replying Crash, couldn't have put it better.
John Bowes
2020-02-12 05:25:01 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
Post by JohnO
So this shadowy NZFirst Foundation has been getting lots of money from fishing and racing interests. And it's all been put in there in a way that attempts to hide where it is coming from. And the foundation has been setup to hide and obscure how the money goes into the NZFirst political party.
It has been said that it was set up to exactly mirror the arrangements
the National Party uses.
About as believable as most of your posts Rich :)
Post by Rich80105
Post by JohnO
And the NZFirst foundation is run by individuals very closely and for a very long time associated with Winston.
The the equivalent National Party fund is run by individuals very
xloesley and for a very long time associated with the various National
Party leaders.
Post by JohnO
Yet Winston says, with a straight face, that NZFirst foundation is nothing to do with him! Does anyone seriously believe that?
Probably to exactly the same extent as the National Party leader can
say that about their arrangements - except of course we know that
Jamie-Lee Ross made public a recording of the leader appearing to have
a very good idea as to how it was supposed to be used . . .
Funny that WinstonFirst is being investigated by the SFO :)
Post by Rich80105
Post by JohnO
Meanwhile, racing and fishing industry has been getting plenty of love and money from this Ardern/Labour "led" government.
Meanwhile, Farming and Road Transport organisations have been getting
plenty of love and money from National-led government in the past
Proof please Rich! Or are you saying your glorious Labour party are now subsidising roading businesses? Or is Twyford going to treat road building like he did KiwiBuild and pay the roading companys a bonus for every kilometre built?
Post by Rich80105
Post by JohnO
And we still don't know what the coalition agreement between Labour and NZFirst says.
And we still don;t know what the agrement is between National and ACT
- or what agreements were between National and the Maori Party
National never claimed they were happy to post it like Winston the shster did Rich.
Post by Rich80105
Post by JohnO
Corrupt.
National?
Nothing like Labour/Green!
Post by Rich80105
Post by JohnO
Corrupt.
or ACT?
Nothing like WinstonFirst :)
Post by Rich80105
Post by JohnO
Corrupt.
so having excluded working with NA First, where an investigation has
just started into NZ First donation arrangements, will Bridges rule
out working with the NAtional PArty, where 4 people have been charged?
Why? It's not the National party being investigated Rich. The amusing thing about these charges is the fool who blew the whistle is one of those charged :)
George
2020-02-12 19:07:14 UTC
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On Tue, 11 Feb 2020 21:25:01 -0800 (PST)
Post by John Bowes
Why? It's not the National party being investigated Rich. The amusing
thing about these charges is the fool who blew the whistle is one of
those charged :)
And that's what sticks in their craw.
After years of Peters claiming all sorts of shit about National the
pigeons have finally come home to roost and all his schemes are under
investigation.
No name for posterity.
No knighthood
And hopefully a prison record
Rich80105
2020-02-12 20:59:13 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by George
On Tue, 11 Feb 2020 21:25:01 -0800 (PST)
Post by John Bowes
Why? It's not the National party being investigated Rich. The amusing
thing about these charges is the fool who blew the whistle is one of
those charged :)
And that's what sticks in their craw.
After years of Peters claiming all sorts of shit about National the
pigeons have finally come home to roost and all his schemes are under
investigation.
No name for posterity.
No knighthood
And hopefully a prison record
For once the Pooh-troll may have actually got a statement correct,
George. The investigation of National's donation arrangements may not
still be being investigated; after all 4 people have been charged with
criminal offences:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/119127222/serious-fraud-office-filing-criminal-charges-in-relation-to-national-party-donations

There is little point in speculating who those people are, as JohnB
appears to be trying to do (althogh perhaps he was invovled); but it
is good that Simon Bridges is urging officials to sort out these
matters urgently. Shortly after that article, it was made clear why
the National Party itself could not legally be charged; individuals
related to the party are responsible for their actions; the same would
be true of NZ First should anything be found to have been illegal
there.

The video above is an illustration of the attitudes Simon Bridges had
about donations and a few other matters; it has been interesting
seeing the number of National MPs who have quietly made personal
decisions to move away from being a candidate at the next election . .
.
John Bowes
2020-02-12 23:10:45 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
Post by George
On Tue, 11 Feb 2020 21:25:01 -0800 (PST)
Post by John Bowes
Why? It's not the National party being investigated Rich. The amusing
thing about these charges is the fool who blew the whistle is one of
those charged :)
And that's what sticks in their craw.
After years of Peters claiming all sorts of shit about National the
pigeons have finally come home to roost and all his schemes are under
investigation.
No name for posterity.
No knighthood
And hopefully a prison record
For once the Pooh-troll may have actually got a statement correct,
You persist in telling lies Rich! Why? Stupidity or just force of habit when someone tells the truth about a despotic prick like Winston?
Post by Rich80105
George. The investigation of National's donation arrangements may not
still be being investigated; after all 4 people have been charged with
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/119127222/serious-fraud-office-filing-criminal-charges-in-relation-to-national-party-donations
Can you run that piece of idiocy past us again Rich? People are charged when their is evidence that has been investigated.
Post by Rich80105
There is little point in speculating who those people are, as JohnB
appears to be trying to do (althogh perhaps he was invovled); but it
is good that Simon Bridges is urging officials to sort out these
matters urgently. Shortly after that article, it was made clear why
the National Party itself could not legally be charged; individuals
related to the party are responsible for their actions; the same would
be true of NZ First should anything be found to have been illegal
there.
Good fucking grief! Rich airs his ignorance and blind support of a career liar and bauble grabber. from the evidence available from media reports the foundation may not have broken the law (something the SFO will decide) but they've sure bent the hell out of the law!
Post by Rich80105
The video above is an illustration of the attitudes Simon Bridges had
about donations and a few other matters; it has been interesting
seeing the number of National MPs who have quietly made personal
decisions to move away from being a candidate at the next election . .
.
What video are you waffling about now rich? Did you try posting Winston's self serving load of bullshit to Facebook? This video? https://www.facebook.com/winstonpeters/videos/778894855934804/ you'll love it rich because it shows Winston as a brave and loyal human being smeared by others. Rather than the dirtiest politicians in New Zealand politics :)

btw johnB doesn't post here and has never worked for National. But don't let inconvenient facts get in the way of a good smear Rich :) While we're at it how many Labour/Green/NZF MP's are retiring this year? More than two?
Tony
2020-02-13 01:43:43 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
Post by George
On Tue, 11 Feb 2020 21:25:01 -0800 (PST)
Post by John Bowes
Why? It's not the National party being investigated Rich. The amusing
thing about these charges is the fool who blew the whistle is one of
those charged :)
And that's what sticks in their craw.
After years of Peters claiming all sorts of shit about National the
pigeons have finally come home to roost and all his schemes are under
investigation.
No name for posterity.
No knighthood
And hopefully a prison record
For once the Pooh-troll may have actually got a statement correct,
George. The investigation of National's donation arrangements may not
still be being investigated; after all 4 people have been charged with
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/119127222/serious-fraud-office-filing-criminal-charges-in-relation-to-national-party-donations
There is little point in speculating who those people are, as JohnB
appears to be trying to do (althogh perhaps he was invovled); but it
is good that Simon Bridges is urging officials to sort out these
matters urgently. Shortly after that article, it was made clear why
the National Party itself could not legally be charged; individuals
related to the party are responsible for their actions; the same would
be true of NZ First should anything be found to have been illegal
there.
The video above is an illustration of the attitudes Simon Bridges had
about donations and a few other matters; it has been interesting
seeing the number of National MPs who have quietly made personal
decisions to move away from being a candidate at the next election . .
.
You are guessing, nothing more.
Rich80105
2020-02-13 04:00:58 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Wed, 12 Feb 2020 19:43:43 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by George
On Tue, 11 Feb 2020 21:25:01 -0800 (PST)
Post by John Bowes
Why? It's not the National party being investigated Rich. The amusing
thing about these charges is the fool who blew the whistle is one of
those charged :)
And that's what sticks in their craw.
After years of Peters claiming all sorts of shit about National the
pigeons have finally come home to roost and all his schemes are under
investigation.
No name for posterity.
No knighthood
And hopefully a prison record
For once the Pooh-troll may have actually got a statement correct,
George. The investigation of National's donation arrangements may not
still be being investigated; after all 4 people have been charged with
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/119127222/serious-fraud-office-filing-criminal-charges-in-relation-to-national-party-donations
There is little point in speculating who those people are, as JohnB
appears to be trying to do (althogh perhaps he was invovled); but it
is good that Simon Bridges is urging officials to sort out these
matters urgently. Shortly after that article, it was made clear why
the National Party itself could not legally be charged; individuals
related to the party are responsible for their actions; the same would
be true of NZ First should anything be found to have been illegal
there.
The video above is an illustration of the attitudes Simon Bridges had
about donations and a few other matters; it has been interesting
seeing the number of National MPs who have quietly made personal
decisions to move away from being a candidate at the next election . .
.
You are guessing, nothing more.
I am not guessing that 4 people have been charged in relation to
something to do with National's donation practices, or that quite a
few National MPs have decided to retire from parliament. I do not as
it happens think that the two are linked; there are plenty of other
reasons for MPs to decide it is time to move on. We also do not know
if investigations regarding National are complete; and we know that
investigations have not (at least as yet) resulted in charges in
relation to NZ First practices.

It is clear that the scandal surrounding National's handling of
donations, and now the use of similar structures by NZ First, is
sufficient casue to make major changes to the control and disclosure
of political donations to parties. Unfortunately it is now too late to
make those changes before the election next September.
Tony
2020-02-13 04:58:50 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 12 Feb 2020 19:43:43 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by George
On Tue, 11 Feb 2020 21:25:01 -0800 (PST)
Post by John Bowes
Why? It's not the National party being investigated Rich. The amusing
thing about these charges is the fool who blew the whistle is one of
those charged :)
And that's what sticks in their craw.
After years of Peters claiming all sorts of shit about National the
pigeons have finally come home to roost and all his schemes are under
investigation.
No name for posterity.
No knighthood
And hopefully a prison record
For once the Pooh-troll may have actually got a statement correct,
George. The investigation of National's donation arrangements may not
still be being investigated; after all 4 people have been charged with
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/119127222/serious-fraud-office-filing-criminal-charges-in-relation-to-national-party-donations
There is little point in speculating who those people are, as JohnB
appears to be trying to do (althogh perhaps he was invovled); but it
is good that Simon Bridges is urging officials to sort out these
matters urgently. Shortly after that article, it was made clear why
the National Party itself could not legally be charged; individuals
related to the party are responsible for their actions; the same would
be true of NZ First should anything be found to have been illegal
there.
The video above is an illustration of the attitudes Simon Bridges had
about donations and a few other matters; it has been interesting
seeing the number of National MPs who have quietly made personal
decisions to move away from being a candidate at the next election . .
.
You are guessing, nothing more.
I am not guessing that 4 people have been charged in relation to
something to do with National's donation practices, or that quite a
few National MPs have decided to retire from parliament. I do not as
it happens think that the two are linked; there are plenty of other
reasons for MPs to decide it is time to move on. We also do not know
if investigations regarding National are complete; and we know that
investigations have not (at least as yet) resulted in charges in
relation to NZ First practices.
It is clear that the scandal surrounding National's handling of
donations, and now the use of similar structures by NZ First, is
sufficient casue to make major changes to the control and disclosure
of political donations to parties. Unfortunately it is now too late to
make those changes before the election next September.
The only thing that is clear is that NZ First are being investigated and
National are not.
All else is a guess.
Rich80105
2020-02-13 07:13:31 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Wed, 12 Feb 2020 22:58:50 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 12 Feb 2020 19:43:43 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by George
On Tue, 11 Feb 2020 21:25:01 -0800 (PST)
Post by John Bowes
Why? It's not the National party being investigated Rich. The amusing
thing about these charges is the fool who blew the whistle is one of
those charged :)
And that's what sticks in their craw.
After years of Peters claiming all sorts of shit about National the
pigeons have finally come home to roost and all his schemes are under
investigation.
No name for posterity.
No knighthood
And hopefully a prison record
For once the Pooh-troll may have actually got a statement correct,
George. The investigation of National's donation arrangements may not
still be being investigated; after all 4 people have been charged with
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/119127222/serious-fraud-office-filing-criminal-charges-in-relation-to-national-party-donations
There is little point in speculating who those people are, as JohnB
appears to be trying to do (althogh perhaps he was invovled); but it
is good that Simon Bridges is urging officials to sort out these
matters urgently. Shortly after that article, it was made clear why
the National Party itself could not legally be charged; individuals
related to the party are responsible for their actions; the same would
be true of NZ First should anything be found to have been illegal
there.
The video above is an illustration of the attitudes Simon Bridges had
about donations and a few other matters; it has been interesting
seeing the number of National MPs who have quietly made personal
decisions to move away from being a candidate at the next election . .
.
You are guessing, nothing more.
I am not guessing that 4 people have been charged in relation to
something to do with National's donation practices, or that quite a
few National MPs have decided to retire from parliament. I do not as
it happens think that the two are linked; there are plenty of other
reasons for MPs to decide it is time to move on. We also do not know
if investigations regarding National are complete; and we know that
investigations have not (at least as yet) resulted in charges in
relation to NZ First practices.
It is clear that the scandal surrounding National's handling of
donations, and now the use of similar structures by NZ First, is
sufficient casue to make major changes to the control and disclosure
of political donations to parties. Unfortunately it is now too late to
make those changes before the election next September.
The only thing that is clear is that NZ First are being investigated
Agreed
Post by Tony
and National are not.
There is no evidence either way - with four people charged, clearly
all is not right with how National have handled donations, but we
cannot be certain that invitigations are not continuing, or that there
could be further charges laid. Or are you claiming that with only 4
people charged with offences, all is well with National, and they are
better than anotehr party where no-one has been charged with any
offences?
Post by Tony
All else is a guess.
If you are going to guess, best if you don;t deliberately try to
mislead - but perhaps you will just plead incompetence . . .
Crash
2020-02-13 07:30:35 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 12 Feb 2020 22:58:50 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 12 Feb 2020 19:43:43 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by George
On Tue, 11 Feb 2020 21:25:01 -0800 (PST)
Post by John Bowes
Why? It's not the National party being investigated Rich. The amusing
thing about these charges is the fool who blew the whistle is one of
those charged :)
And that's what sticks in their craw.
After years of Peters claiming all sorts of shit about National the
pigeons have finally come home to roost and all his schemes are under
investigation.
No name for posterity.
No knighthood
And hopefully a prison record
For once the Pooh-troll may have actually got a statement correct,
George. The investigation of National's donation arrangements may not
still be being investigated; after all 4 people have been charged with
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/119127222/serious-fraud-office-filing-criminal-charges-in-relation-to-national-party-donations
There is little point in speculating who those people are, as JohnB
appears to be trying to do (althogh perhaps he was invovled); but it
is good that Simon Bridges is urging officials to sort out these
matters urgently. Shortly after that article, it was made clear why
the National Party itself could not legally be charged; individuals
related to the party are responsible for their actions; the same would
be true of NZ First should anything be found to have been illegal
there.
The video above is an illustration of the attitudes Simon Bridges had
about donations and a few other matters; it has been interesting
seeing the number of National MPs who have quietly made personal
decisions to move away from being a candidate at the next election . .
.
You are guessing, nothing more.
I am not guessing that 4 people have been charged in relation to
something to do with National's donation practices, or that quite a
few National MPs have decided to retire from parliament. I do not as
it happens think that the two are linked; there are plenty of other
reasons for MPs to decide it is time to move on. We also do not know
if investigations regarding National are complete; and we know that
investigations have not (at least as yet) resulted in charges in
relation to NZ First practices.
It is clear that the scandal surrounding National's handling of
donations, and now the use of similar structures by NZ First, is
sufficient casue to make major changes to the control and disclosure
of political donations to parties. Unfortunately it is now too late to
make those changes before the election next September.
The only thing that is clear is that NZ First are being investigated
Agreed
Post by Tony
and National are not.
There is no evidence either way - with four people charged, clearly
all is not right with how National have handled donations, but we
cannot be certain that invitigations are not continuing, or that there
could be further charges laid. Or are you claiming that with only 4
people charged with offences, all is well with National, and they are
better than anotehr party where no-one has been charged with any
offences?
Post by Tony
All else is a guess.
If you are going to guess, best if you don;t deliberately try to
mislead - but perhaps you will just plead incompetence . . .
The controversy over the NZ First Foundation donations has resulted in
the Electoral Commission asking the Police to investigate because they
believe the law has been broken. The Police have referred the
Electoral Commission request to the SFO. The parties involved are NZ
First (the party) and NZ First (the foundation).

Remind me again what is happening with National donation allegations -
made by whom? The SFO - no involvement by the Electoral Commission.
Charges being against whom? No doubt all will be revealed sometime in
the future.

Yes both NZ First and National are involved in donations
investigations - but the situation as it stands today is far more
serious for NZ First.


--
Crash McBash
Rich80105
2020-02-13 07:48:20 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 12 Feb 2020 22:58:50 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 12 Feb 2020 19:43:43 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by George
On Tue, 11 Feb 2020 21:25:01 -0800 (PST)
Post by John Bowes
Why? It's not the National party being investigated Rich. The amusing
thing about these charges is the fool who blew the whistle is one of
those charged :)
And that's what sticks in their craw.
After years of Peters claiming all sorts of shit about National the
pigeons have finally come home to roost and all his schemes are under
investigation.
No name for posterity.
No knighthood
And hopefully a prison record
For once the Pooh-troll may have actually got a statement correct,
George. The investigation of National's donation arrangements may not
still be being investigated; after all 4 people have been charged with
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/119127222/serious-fraud-office-filing-criminal-charges-in-relation-to-national-party-donations
There is little point in speculating who those people are, as JohnB
appears to be trying to do (althogh perhaps he was invovled); but it
is good that Simon Bridges is urging officials to sort out these
matters urgently. Shortly after that article, it was made clear why
the National Party itself could not legally be charged; individuals
related to the party are responsible for their actions; the same would
be true of NZ First should anything be found to have been illegal
there.
The video above is an illustration of the attitudes Simon Bridges had
about donations and a few other matters; it has been interesting
seeing the number of National MPs who have quietly made personal
decisions to move away from being a candidate at the next election . .
.
You are guessing, nothing more.
I am not guessing that 4 people have been charged in relation to
something to do with National's donation practices, or that quite a
few National MPs have decided to retire from parliament. I do not as
it happens think that the two are linked; there are plenty of other
reasons for MPs to decide it is time to move on. We also do not know
if investigations regarding National are complete; and we know that
investigations have not (at least as yet) resulted in charges in
relation to NZ First practices.
It is clear that the scandal surrounding National's handling of
donations, and now the use of similar structures by NZ First, is
sufficient casue to make major changes to the control and disclosure
of political donations to parties. Unfortunately it is now too late to
make those changes before the election next September.
The only thing that is clear is that NZ First are being investigated
Agreed
Post by Tony
and National are not.
There is no evidence either way - with four people charged, clearly
all is not right with how National have handled donations, but we
cannot be certain that invitigations are not continuing, or that there
could be further charges laid. Or are you claiming that with only 4
people charged with offences, all is well with National, and they are
better than anotehr party where no-one has been charged with any
offences?
Post by Tony
All else is a guess.
If you are going to guess, best if you don;t deliberately try to
mislead - but perhaps you will just plead incompetence . . .
The controversy over the NZ First Foundation donations has resulted in
the Electoral Commission asking the Police to investigate because they
believe the law has been broken. The Police have referred the
Electoral Commission request to the SFO. The parties involved are NZ
First (the party) and NZ First (the foundation).
Remind me again what is happening with National donation allegations -
made by whom? The SFO - no involvement by the Electoral Commission.
Charges being against whom? No doubt all will be revealed sometime in
the future.
Yes both NZ First and National are involved in donations
investigations - but the situation as it stands today is far more
serious for NZ First.
Why do you consider that 4 people charged for offences has less stench
than an investigation that has not yet reached any conclusions - and
for all we know may result in fewer prosecutions or even none? The
prosecutions of 4 National people are being made by the Serious Fraud
office - does it matter who made the allegations?
Crash
2020-02-13 23:32:56 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 12 Feb 2020 22:58:50 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 12 Feb 2020 19:43:43 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by George
On Tue, 11 Feb 2020 21:25:01 -0800 (PST)
Post by John Bowes
Why? It's not the National party being investigated Rich. The amusing
thing about these charges is the fool who blew the whistle is one of
those charged :)
And that's what sticks in their craw.
After years of Peters claiming all sorts of shit about National the
pigeons have finally come home to roost and all his schemes are under
investigation.
No name for posterity.
No knighthood
And hopefully a prison record
For once the Pooh-troll may have actually got a statement correct,
George. The investigation of National's donation arrangements may not
still be being investigated; after all 4 people have been charged with
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/119127222/serious-fraud-office-filing-criminal-charges-in-relation-to-national-party-donations
There is little point in speculating who those people are, as JohnB
appears to be trying to do (althogh perhaps he was invovled); but it
is good that Simon Bridges is urging officials to sort out these
matters urgently. Shortly after that article, it was made clear why
the National Party itself could not legally be charged; individuals
related to the party are responsible for their actions; the same would
be true of NZ First should anything be found to have been illegal
there.
The video above is an illustration of the attitudes Simon Bridges had
about donations and a few other matters; it has been interesting
seeing the number of National MPs who have quietly made personal
decisions to move away from being a candidate at the next election . .
.
You are guessing, nothing more.
I am not guessing that 4 people have been charged in relation to
something to do with National's donation practices, or that quite a
few National MPs have decided to retire from parliament. I do not as
it happens think that the two are linked; there are plenty of other
reasons for MPs to decide it is time to move on. We also do not know
if investigations regarding National are complete; and we know that
investigations have not (at least as yet) resulted in charges in
relation to NZ First practices.
It is clear that the scandal surrounding National's handling of
donations, and now the use of similar structures by NZ First, is
sufficient casue to make major changes to the control and disclosure
of political donations to parties. Unfortunately it is now too late to
make those changes before the election next September.
The only thing that is clear is that NZ First are being investigated
Agreed
Post by Tony
and National are not.
There is no evidence either way - with four people charged, clearly
all is not right with how National have handled donations, but we
cannot be certain that invitigations are not continuing, or that there
could be further charges laid. Or are you claiming that with only 4
people charged with offences, all is well with National, and they are
better than anotehr party where no-one has been charged with any
offences?
Post by Tony
All else is a guess.
If you are going to guess, best if you don;t deliberately try to
mislead - but perhaps you will just plead incompetence . . .
The controversy over the NZ First Foundation donations has resulted in
the Electoral Commission asking the Police to investigate because they
believe the law has been broken. The Police have referred the
Electoral Commission request to the SFO. The parties involved are NZ
First (the party) and NZ First (the foundation).
Remind me again what is happening with National donation allegations -
made by whom? The SFO - no involvement by the Electoral Commission.
Charges being against whom? No doubt all will be revealed sometime in
the future.
Yes both NZ First and National are involved in donations
investigations - but the situation as it stands today is far more
serious for NZ First.
Why do you consider that 4 people charged for offences has less stench
than an investigation that has not yet reached any conclusions - and
for all we know may result in fewer prosecutions or even none?
Because this is the background for the National Party donations:
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2019/03/12/484157/sfo-to-investigate-national-donation-allegations

and this is the background to the NZ First donations saga:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/119393435/electoral-commission-refers-nz-first-foundation-donations-to-police-says-donations-should-have-been-declared

Read my previous posts for more details
Post by Rich80105
The
prosecutions of 4 National people are being made by the Serious Fraud
office - does it matter who made the allegations?
We don't yet know who these people are or what they are being charged
with. We know exactly what the allegations are against NZ First (the
party) and NZF (the foundation).


--
Crash McBash
Tony
2020-02-13 19:38:24 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 12 Feb 2020 22:58:50 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 12 Feb 2020 19:43:43 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by George
On Tue, 11 Feb 2020 21:25:01 -0800 (PST)
Post by John Bowes
Why? It's not the National party being investigated Rich. The amusing
thing about these charges is the fool who blew the whistle is one of
those charged :)
And that's what sticks in their craw.
After years of Peters claiming all sorts of shit about National the
pigeons have finally come home to roost and all his schemes are under
investigation.
No name for posterity.
No knighthood
And hopefully a prison record
For once the Pooh-troll may have actually got a statement correct,
George. The investigation of National's donation arrangements may not
still be being investigated; after all 4 people have been charged with
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/119127222/serious-fraud-office-filing-criminal-charges-in-relation-to-national-party-donations
There is little point in speculating who those people are, as JohnB
appears to be trying to do (althogh perhaps he was invovled); but it
is good that Simon Bridges is urging officials to sort out these
matters urgently. Shortly after that article, it was made clear why
the National Party itself could not legally be charged; individuals
related to the party are responsible for their actions; the same would
be true of NZ First should anything be found to have been illegal
there.
The video above is an illustration of the attitudes Simon Bridges had
about donations and a few other matters; it has been interesting
seeing the number of National MPs who have quietly made personal
decisions to move away from being a candidate at the next election . .
.
You are guessing, nothing more.
I am not guessing that 4 people have been charged in relation to
something to do with National's donation practices, or that quite a
few National MPs have decided to retire from parliament. I do not as
it happens think that the two are linked; there are plenty of other
reasons for MPs to decide it is time to move on. We also do not know
if investigations regarding National are complete; and we know that
investigations have not (at least as yet) resulted in charges in
relation to NZ First practices.
It is clear that the scandal surrounding National's handling of
donations, and now the use of similar structures by NZ First, is
sufficient casue to make major changes to the control and disclosure
of political donations to parties. Unfortunately it is now too late to
make those changes before the election next September.
The only thing that is clear is that NZ First are being investigated
Agreed
Post by Tony
and National are not.
There is no evidence either way - with four people charged, clearly
all is not right with how National have handled donations, but we
cannot be certain that invitigations are not continuing, or that there
could be further charges laid. Or are you claiming that with only 4
people charged with offences, all is well with National, and they are
better than anotehr party where no-one has been charged with any
Don't be silly.
Post by Rich80105
offences?
Post by Tony
All else is a guess.
Rudeness removed
John Bowes
2020-02-13 21:15:03 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 12 Feb 2020 22:58:50 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 12 Feb 2020 19:43:43 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by George
On Tue, 11 Feb 2020 21:25:01 -0800 (PST)
Post by John Bowes
Why? It's not the National party being investigated Rich. The amusing
thing about these charges is the fool who blew the whistle is one of
those charged :)
And that's what sticks in their craw.
After years of Peters claiming all sorts of shit about National the
pigeons have finally come home to roost and all his schemes are under
investigation.
No name for posterity.
No knighthood
And hopefully a prison record
For once the Pooh-troll may have actually got a statement correct,
George. The investigation of National's donation arrangements may not
still be being investigated; after all 4 people have been charged with
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/119127222/serious-fraud-office-filing-criminal-charges-in-relation-to-national-party-donations
There is little point in speculating who those people are, as JohnB
appears to be trying to do (althogh perhaps he was invovled); but it
is good that Simon Bridges is urging officials to sort out these
matters urgently. Shortly after that article, it was made clear why
the National Party itself could not legally be charged; individuals
related to the party are responsible for their actions; the same would
be true of NZ First should anything be found to have been illegal
there.
The video above is an illustration of the attitudes Simon Bridges had
about donations and a few other matters; it has been interesting
seeing the number of National MPs who have quietly made personal
decisions to move away from being a candidate at the next election . .
.
You are guessing, nothing more.
I am not guessing that 4 people have been charged in relation to
something to do with National's donation practices, or that quite a
few National MPs have decided to retire from parliament. I do not as
it happens think that the two are linked; there are plenty of other
reasons for MPs to decide it is time to move on. We also do not know
if investigations regarding National are complete; and we know that
investigations have not (at least as yet) resulted in charges in
relation to NZ First practices.
It is clear that the scandal surrounding National's handling of
donations, and now the use of similar structures by NZ First, is
sufficient casue to make major changes to the control and disclosure
of political donations to parties. Unfortunately it is now too late to
make those changes before the election next September.
The only thing that is clear is that NZ First are being investigated
Agreed
Post by Tony
and National are not.
There is no evidence either way - with four people charged, clearly
all is not right with how National have handled donations, but we
cannot be certain that invitigations are not continuing, or that there
could be further charges laid. Or are you claiming that with only 4
people charged with offences, all is well with National, and they are
better than anotehr party where no-one has been charged with any
offences?
Post by Tony
All else is a guess.
If you are going to guess, best if you don;t deliberately try to
mislead - but perhaps you will just plead incompetence . . .
No Rich! You follow in your glorious misleaders footsteps by trying to have NZFirst seen as pure! You ignore Winston's grabs for money at your peril and Winston will do ANYTHING to rake in more cash even if it's only a pathetic $200 a week for a power subsidy!
George
2020-02-13 19:03:50 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Wed, 12 Feb 2020 22:58:50 -0600
Post by Tony
The only thing that is clear is that NZ First are being investigated
and National are not.
All else is a guess.
And Peters is going out of its tiny mind....
Less than 5%
Who wants to vote for a criminal consortium or even a political party
with such charges hanging over their heads
JohnO
2020-02-13 19:29:21 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 12 Feb 2020 22:58:50 -0600
Post by Tony
The only thing that is clear is that NZ First are being investigated
and National are not.
All else is a guess.
And Peters is going out of its tiny mind....
Less than 5%
Who wants to vote for a criminal consortium or even a political party
with such charges hanging over their heads
And who'd vote for a party prepared to cohabit with such?
John Bowes
2020-02-13 21:17:34 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by JohnO
Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 12 Feb 2020 22:58:50 -0600
Post by Tony
The only thing that is clear is that NZ First are being investigated
and National are not.
All else is a guess.
And Peters is going out of its tiny mind....
Less than 5%
Who wants to vote for a criminal consortium or even a political party
with such charges hanging over their heads
And who'd vote for a party prepared to cohabit with such?
The village idiots like Rich will happily vote for it because it's not National. To hell with whether Winston is found guilty as hell or not :)
Crash
2020-02-13 23:44:11 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by JohnO
Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 12 Feb 2020 22:58:50 -0600
Post by Tony
The only thing that is clear is that NZ First are being investigated
and National are not.
All else is a guess.
And Peters is going out of its tiny mind....
Less than 5%
It is a position that Winston is well acquainted with. Just once in 8
MMP elections has he failed to get over the 5% threshold or failed to
win an electorate seat.
Post by JohnO
Post by Rich80105
Who wants to vote for a criminal consortium or even a political party
with such charges hanging over their heads
The Owen Glenn donation problems may have contributed to the exit of
NZ First from Parliament after the 2008 election, but NZF returned in
2011.
Post by JohnO
And who'd vote for a party prepared to cohabit with such?
Good question.


--
Crash McBash

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