Discussion:
This racist country?
Add Reply
Tony
2021-01-26 02:07:42 UTC
Reply
Permalink
https://www.bassettbrashandhide.com/post/new-zealand-s-modern-cultural-cringe?fbclid=IwAR3pMZaHFKa9yL7KPDCo-BC9cxTIxivr7MsHRn8-cMK37zzjG05EgGUvI-o
A plea to the bigotted, read the content not the publisher.
John Bowes
2021-01-26 05:09:02 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Tony
https://www.bassettbrashandhide.com/post/new-zealand-s-modern-cultural-cringe?fbclid=IwAR3pMZaHFKa9yL7KPDCo-BC9cxTIxivr7MsHRn8-cMK37zzjG05EgGUvI-o
A plea to the bigotted, read the content not the publisher.
An interesting read. A lot of long winded crap but much is very accurate.I wonder if Professor King is one of the academics being used for the new curriculum. If the author of the piece is correct they won't let him near it.......
Rich80105
2021-01-26 07:28:00 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Mon, 25 Jan 2021 21:09:02 -0800 (PST), John Bowes
Post by John Bowes
Post by Tony
https://www.bassettbrashandhide.com/post/new-zealand-s-modern-cultural-cringe?fbclid=IwAR3pMZaHFKa9yL7KPDCo-BC9cxTIxivr7MsHRn8-cMK37zzjG05EgGUvI-o
A plea to the bigotted, read the content not the publisher.
An interesting read. A lot of long winded crap but much is very accurate.I wonder if Professor King is one of the academics being used for the new curriculum. If the author of the piece is correct they won't let him near it.......
Michael King died on 30 March 2004.
John Bowes
2021-01-26 21:23:55 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 25 Jan 2021 21:09:02 -0800 (PST), John Bowes
Post by John Bowes
Post by Tony
https://www.bassettbrashandhide.com/post/new-zealand-s-modern-cultural-cringe?fbclid=IwAR3pMZaHFKa9yL7KPDCo-BC9cxTIxivr7MsHRn8-cMK37zzjG05EgGUvI-o
A plea to the bigotted, read the content not the publisher.
An interesting read. A lot of long winded crap but much is very accurate.I wonder if Professor King is one of the academics being used for the new curriculum. If the author of the piece is correct they won't let him near it.......
Michael King died on 30 March 2004.
Then an unbiased history curriculum from Hipkins and Co. isn't likely!
George Black
2021-01-26 23:40:45 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by John Bowes
Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 25 Jan 2021 21:09:02 -0800 (PST), John Bowes
Post by John Bowes
Post by Tony
https://www.bassettbrashandhide.com/post/new-zealand-s-modern-cultural-cringe?fbclid=IwAR3pMZaHFKa9yL7KPDCo-BC9cxTIxivr7MsHRn8-cMK37zzjG05EgGUvI-o
A plea to the bigotted, read the content not the publisher.
An interesting read. A lot of long winded crap but much is very accurate.I wonder if Professor King is one of the academics being used for the new curriculum. If the author of the piece is correct they won't let him near it.......
Michael King died on 30 March 2004.
Then an unbiased history curriculum from Hipkins and Co. isn't likely!
Every twenty years a 'new' historian comes up with a new set of 'facts'
Been going on for a long time and they avoid those events that show
people in bad lights
John Bowes
2021-01-27 01:14:05 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by George Black
Post by John Bowes
Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 25 Jan 2021 21:09:02 -0800 (PST), John Bowes
Post by John Bowes
Post by Tony
https://www.bassettbrashandhide.com/post/new-zealand-s-modern-cultural-cringe?fbclid=IwAR3pMZaHFKa9yL7KPDCo-BC9cxTIxivr7MsHRn8-cMK37zzjG05EgGUvI-o
A plea to the bigotted, read the content not the publisher.
An interesting read. A lot of long winded crap but much is very accurate.I wonder if Professor King is one of the academics being used for the new curriculum. If the author of the piece is correct they won't let him near it.......
Michael King died on 30 March 2004.
Then an unbiased history curriculum from Hipkins and Co. isn't likely!
Every twenty years a 'new' historian comes up with a new set of 'facts'
Been going on for a long time and they avoid those events that show
people in bad lights
King's history doesn't do a whitewash. Refreshingly honest imo about the history of the country.
George Black
2021-01-26 19:17:40 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by John Bowes
Post by Tony
https://www.bassettbrashandhide.com/post/new-zealand-s-modern-cultural-cringe?fbclid=IwAR3pMZaHFKa9yL7KPDCo-BC9cxTIxivr7MsHRn8-cMK37zzjG05EgGUvI-o
A plea to the bigotted, read the content not the publisher.
An interesting read. A lot of long winded crap but much is very accurate.I wonder if Professor King is one of the academics being used for the new curriculum. If the author of the piece is correct they won't let him near it.......
No matter the point that the ivory tower wishes to flagellate us with
they will find or invent sufficient blurb for the exercise.
Also its not from the sacred daily dais
Rich80105
2021-01-26 05:38:12 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Mon, 25 Jan 2021 20:07:42 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
https://www.bassettbrashandhide.com/post/new-zealand-s-modern-cultural-cringe?fbclid=IwAR3pMZaHFKa9yL7KPDCo-BC9cxTIxivr7MsHRn8-cMK37zzjG05EgGUvI-o
A plea to the bigotted, read the content not the publisher.
"All things derived from Europe except our creature comforts must be
set aside as we are expected to embrace all things Maori. "

That certainly sounds bizarre, but thankfully not at all consistent
with my experience. Most of my family tree goes back to England,
Ireland and Scotland in times when these were definitely not regarded
as being part of "Europe," but I see cultural changes including
greater recognition of our shared heritage now from Asia, Pacific
Islands and elsewhere as well as a return to the closer relationship
with Maori than I suspect we had in the early part of last century,
before the migration of many Maori to the cities.

"Several newspapers are falling into line" - into line with what?
There have been no changes to laws that have triggered any changes in
names used - it is possible that Bassett regrets we no longer use the
term "Mother Country", but this is not clear.

"We are expected to acquiesce." Really? Who by? What statements
support this?

And so we could go on - yet another rambling protest at change from
aging "used to be" New Zealanders who would once have had theor
opinions published in newspapers concerned about an audience - running
their own website is appropriate, don't you think?

The comments cover a wide gamut of opinion and are pleasingly polite.

Thank you for drawing this website to out attention, Tony - from it,
the following is perhaps of more interest:
https://www.bassettbrashandhide.com/post/housing-affordability-the-utter-failure-of-successive-governments

I have recently been in Auckland and have seen the result of the
changes to land use rules that have increased density and height in
many new developments - the results are not welcome to many of the
nimby brigade where the likes of Brash, Basset and Hyde live, but the
breadth of new building is staggering, and will I am sure have an
effect on housing costs in the medium to long term . . .
Tony
2021-01-26 21:29:31 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 25 Jan 2021 20:07:42 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
https://www.bassettbrashandhide.com/post/new-zealand-s-modern-cultural-cringe?fbclid=IwAR3pMZaHFKa9yL7KPDCo-BC9cxTIxivr7MsHRn8-cMK37zzjG05EgGUvI-o
A plea to the bigotted, read the content not the publisher.
"All things derived from Europe except our creature comforts must be
set aside as we are expected to embrace all things Maori. "
That certainly sounds bizarre, but thankfully not at all consistent
with my experience. Most of my family tree goes back to England,
Ireland and Scotland in times when these were definitely not regarded
as being part of "Europe," but I see cultural changes including
greater recognition of our shared heritage now from Asia, Pacific
Islands and elsewhere as well as a return to the closer relationship
with Maori than I suspect we had in the early part of last century,
before the migration of many Maori to the cities.
"Several newspapers are falling into line" - into line with what?
There have been no changes to laws that have triggered any changes in
names used - it is possible that Bassett regrets we no longer use the
term "Mother Country", but this is not clear.
"We are expected to acquiesce." Really? Who by? What statements
support this?
And so we could go on - yet another rambling protest at change from
aging "used to be" New Zealanders who would once have had theor
opinions published in newspapers concerned about an audience - running
their own website is appropriate, don't you think?
The comments cover a wide gamut of opinion and are pleasingly polite.
As they should be, not unexpected.
You picked a tiny number of points from the website post, and ignored
everything else.
The thrust of the article is clear, it is about racism; racism that exists
today in this country.
Post by Rich80105
Thank you for drawing this website to out attention, Tony - from it,
No, thyyat is off topic, feel free to post your own thread.
Post by Rich80105
https://www.bassettbrashandhide.com/post/housing-affordability-the-utter-failure-of-successive-governments
I have recently been in Auckland and have seen the result of the
changes to land use rules that have increased density and height in
many new developments - the results are not welcome to many of the
nimby brigade where the likes of Brash, Basset and Hyde live,
What nonsense, you cannot sustain that with evidence. But you had to have a
nasty dig at them as usual.
Post by Rich80105
but the
breadth of new building is staggering, and will I am sure have an
effect on housing costs in the medium to long term . . .
What nonsense, you cannot sustain that with evidence.
James Christophers
2021-01-27 00:11:39 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 25 Jan 2021 20:07:42 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
https://www.bassettbrashandhide.com/post/new-zealand-s-modern-cultural-cringe?fbclid=IwAR3pMZaHFKa9yL7KPDCo-BC9cxTIxivr7MsHRn8-cMK37zzjG05EgGUvI-o
A plea to the bigotted, read the content not the publisher.
"All things derived from Europe except our creature comforts must be
set aside as we are expected to embrace all things Maori. "
That certainly sounds bizarre, but thankfully not at all consistent
with my experience. Most of my family tree goes back to England,
Ireland and Scotland in times when these were definitely not regarded
as being part of "Europe," but I see cultural changes including
greater recognition of our shared heritage now from Asia, Pacific
Islands and elsewhere as well as a return to the closer relationship
with Maori than I suspect we had in the early part of last century,
before the migration of many Maori to the cities.
"Several newspapers are falling into line" - into line with what?
There have been no changes to laws that have triggered any changes in
names used - it is possible that Bassett regrets we no longer use the
term "Mother Country", but this is not clear.
"We are expected to acquiesce." Really? Who by? What statements
support this?
And so we could go on - yet another rambling protest at change from
aging "used to be" New Zealanders who would once have had theor
opinions published in newspapers concerned about an audience - running
their own website is appropriate, don't you think?
The comments cover a wide gamut of opinion and are pleasingly polite.
As they should be, not unexpected.
You picked a tiny number of points from the website post, and ignored
everything else.
The thrust of the article is clear, it is about racism; racism that exists
today in this country.
I prefer to call it self-serving race-based preferment which in this case amounts to cultural exceptionalism.

What is being promoted and practised by exceptionalist activists and condoned by their political fellow-travellers speaks of an exceptionalism and exclusivity claimed as if by Devine Right by those who see themselves as "first nation". Indeed, according to the late Sir Ranganui Walker[1], they will milk this exceptionalism for all it's worth, in fact to the point where the overall cost and disruption caused economically and societally becomes unnaturally and inequitably disproportionate to the minority - and dare I say it, merit - of those who would impose their far- too-often hokum ways on others.

Further, cultural activism by a minority of the kind under discussion will always win out over a taken-for-granted cultural apathy among New Zealand's characteristically fretful majority. So it is, I think, down to the latter to just stop whining fruitlessly to each other, get off their apathetic butts and actually get down to devising whatever is required to stem the unchecked insinuation of a wholly self-serving minority exceptionalism they, the fretful majority, perceive as a threat to their own cultural values. Moreover, if you think or even actually believe this government, or any government come to that, has become your master, then ask yourselves, in a voter-based democracy whose fault is that?

[1] "The Maori will always have his hand in the white man's pocket". He also meant this metaphorically.
Rich80105
2021-01-27 07:44:32 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Tue, 26 Jan 2021 16:11:39 -0800 (PST), James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 25 Jan 2021 20:07:42 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
https://www.bassettbrashandhide.com/post/new-zealand-s-modern-cultural-cringe?fbclid=IwAR3pMZaHFKa9yL7KPDCo-BC9cxTIxivr7MsHRn8-cMK37zzjG05EgGUvI-o
A plea to the bigotted, read the content not the publisher.
"All things derived from Europe except our creature comforts must be
set aside as we are expected to embrace all things Maori. "
That certainly sounds bizarre, but thankfully not at all consistent
with my experience. Most of my family tree goes back to England,
Ireland and Scotland in times when these were definitely not regarded
as being part of "Europe," but I see cultural changes including
greater recognition of our shared heritage now from Asia, Pacific
Islands and elsewhere as well as a return to the closer relationship
with Maori than I suspect we had in the early part of last century,
before the migration of many Maori to the cities.
"Several newspapers are falling into line" - into line with what?
There have been no changes to laws that have triggered any changes in
names used - it is possible that Bassett regrets we no longer use the
term "Mother Country", but this is not clear.
"We are expected to acquiesce." Really? Who by? What statements
support this?
And so we could go on - yet another rambling protest at change from
aging "used to be" New Zealanders who would once have had theor
opinions published in newspapers concerned about an audience - running
their own website is appropriate, don't you think?
The comments cover a wide gamut of opinion and are pleasingly polite.
As they should be, not unexpected.
You picked a tiny number of points from the website post, and ignored
everything else.
The thrust of the article is clear, it is about racism; racism that exists
today in this country.
I prefer to call it self-serving race-based preferment which in this case amounts to cultural exceptionalism.
Certainly self serving is a description which can be applied widely,
to both the author and to those who he opposes. We can also see
elements of preservaton of power, privilege, Conservatism, even
perhaps a little of an author seeking self-affirmation and an attempt
at relevance. Certainly there have been examples of systemic racism in
ou past, but in recent times it has been the economic impact of the
totality of our joint actions that have been issues of national
interest. From the time when New Zealand was recognised around the
world for the benefits of egalitarianism, we have seen the destructive
influence of the ideological zealots some of whom eventually ended up
supporting ACT.

New Zealand's early history was filled with racism, legislative
discrimination, and legal decisions that favoured English settlers and
ignored the Treaty, yet the days of early Maori politicians such as
Ngata, Carroll and Pamare showed that there was some recognition of
the needs of Maori, and that. despite prejudices, Maori were capable
of electing strong politicians who could hold their own well in a
predominantly pakeha assembly.

Some of those early wrongs have been recognised, but the clear
relative poverty of Maori is a reminder that injustices have not been
reversed.

Some years ago National adopted a slogan of "equal opportunity" - I
suspect while in opposition, as their policies certainly never
supported it. Then Labour had "closing the gap", with limited success
that was then promptly discarded by the next National Government, in
favour of economic apartheid which resulted in for example :
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/124046498/graeme-hart-nzs-richest-man-makes-34b-during-covid19-pandemic

It is not surprising then that those who can see the injustices have
adopted some of the tactics of business in seeking concessions /
subsidies and at times bribes from government. For all the mock horror
at using the system as others do from the likes of Michael Bassett,
and for the determination from some to at least recognise that there
is a need to be more inclusive to those who have been most damaged by
the system introduced by the government of which he was a part, shows
the lengths to which some will go to find something trivial with which
to attack the victims he failed to help.

That the problems persist is a demonstration that those looking for
government support have been far less successful than the wealthy,
including Graeme Hart, in avoiding any return to truly egalitarian
policies, or even basic fairness in our distorted investment market

Those who Bassett attacks will I am sure agree however with Basset's
statement:
". . . too much power has been allowed to slip into the hands of
crusaders who for too long seem to have been able to commandeer the
resources of others for their own political ends."
Post by James Christophers
What is being promoted and practised by exceptionalist activists and condoned by their political fellow-travellers speaks of an exceptionalism and exclusivity claimed as if by Devine Right by those who see themselves as "first nation". Indeed, according to the late Sir Ranganui Walker[1], they will milk this exceptionalism for all it's worth, in fact to the point where the overall cost and disruption caused economically and societally becomes unnaturally and inequitably disproportionate to the minority - and dare I say it, merit - of those who would impose their far- too-often hokum ways on others.
Further, cultural activism by a minority of the kind under discussion will always win out over a taken-for-granted cultural apathy among New Zealand's characteristically fretful majority. So it is, I think, down to the latter to just stop whining fruitlessly to each other, get off their apathetic butts and actually get down to devising whatever is required to stem the unchecked insinuation of a wholly self-serving minority exceptionalism they, the fretful majority, perceive as a threat to their own cultural values. Moreover, if you think or even actually believe this government, or any government come to that, has become your master, then ask yourselves, in a voter-based democracy whose fault is that?
[1] "The Maori will always have his hand in the white man's pocket". He also meant this metaphorically.
James Christophers
2021-01-27 21:00:47 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 25 Jan 2021 20:07:42 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
https://www.bassettbrashandhide.com/post/new-zealand-s-modern-cultural-cringe?fbclid=IwAR3pMZaHFKa9yL7KPDCo-BC9cxTIxivr7MsHRn8-cMK37zzjG05EgGUvI-o
A plea to the bigotted, read the content not the publisher.
"All things derived from Europe except our creature comforts must be
set aside as we are expected to embrace all things Maori. "
That certainly sounds bizarre, but thankfully not at all consistent
with my experience. Most of my family tree goes back to England,
Ireland and Scotland in times when these were definitely not regarded
as being part of "Europe," but I see cultural changes including
greater recognition of our shared heritage now from Asia, Pacific
Islands and elsewhere as well as a return to the closer relationship
with Maori than I suspect we had in the early part of last century,
before the migration of many Maori to the cities.
"Several newspapers are falling into line" - into line with what?
There have been no changes to laws that have triggered any changes in
names used - it is possible that Bassett regrets we no longer use the
term "Mother Country", but this is not clear.
"We are expected to acquiesce." Really? Who by? What statements
support this?
And so we could go on - yet another rambling protest at change from
aging "used to be" New Zealanders who would once have had theor
opinions published in newspapers concerned about an audience - running
their own website is appropriate, don't you think?
The comments cover a wide gamut of opinion and are pleasingly polite.
As they should be, not unexpected.
You picked a tiny number of points from the website post, and ignored
everything else.
The thrust of the article is clear, it is about racism; racism that exists
today in this country.
I prefer to call it self-serving race-based preferment which in this case amounts to cultural exceptionalism.
What is being promoted and practised by exceptionalist activists and condoned by their political fellow-travellers speaks of an exceptionalism and exclusivity claimed as if by Devine Right by those who see themselves as "first nation". Indeed, according to the late Sir Ranganui Walker[1], they will milk this exceptionalism for all it's worth, in fact to the point where the overall cost and disruption caused economically and societally becomes unnaturally and inequitably disproportionate to the minority - and dare I say it, merit - of those who would impose their far- too-often hokum ways on others.
Further, cultural activism by a minority of the kind under discussion will always win out over a taken-for-granted cultural apathy among New Zealand's characteristically fretful majority. So it is, I think, down to the latter to just stop whining fruitlessly to each other, get off their apathetic butts and actually get down to devising whatever is required to stem the unchecked insinuation of a wholly self-serving minority exceptionalism they, the fretful majority, perceive as a threat to their own cultural values. Moreover, if you think or even actually believe this government, or any government come to that, has become your master, then ask yourselves, in a voter-based democracy whose fault is that?
[1] "The Maori will always have his hand in the white man's pocket". He also meant this metaphorically.
For as long as Sir Ranganui Walker's unedifying warning continues to run, don't be surprised if and when naked racism is given its ugly voice, and in this instance nationwide to boot. Here it is, made known even as I was writing the preceding material:

https://tinyurl.com/y6oodu7s

...now gone global:

https://tinyurl.com/y6h65de7

(The Daily Mail enjoys the dubious distinction of being the sole paper of record catering to the hard-right, exceptionalist bigot and Brexiteer, otherwise known collectively as "gammons".)
Tony
2021-01-28 03:13:08 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 25 Jan 2021 20:07:42 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Tony
https://www.bassettbrashandhide.com/post/new-zealand-s-modern-cultural-cringe?fbclid=IwAR3pMZaHFKa9yL7KPDCo-BC9cxTIxivr7MsHRn8-cMK37zzjG05EgGUvI-o
A plea to the bigotted, read the content not the publisher.
"All things derived from Europe except our creature comforts must be
set aside as we are expected to embrace all things Maori. "
That certainly sounds bizarre, but thankfully not at all consistent
with my experience. Most of my family tree goes back to England,
Ireland and Scotland in times when these were definitely not regarded
as being part of "Europe," but I see cultural changes including
greater recognition of our shared heritage now from Asia, Pacific
Islands and elsewhere as well as a return to the closer relationship
with Maori than I suspect we had in the early part of last century,
before the migration of many Maori to the cities.
"Several newspapers are falling into line" - into line with what?
There have been no changes to laws that have triggered any changes in
names used - it is possible that Bassett regrets we no longer use the
term "Mother Country", but this is not clear.
"We are expected to acquiesce." Really? Who by? What statements
support this?
And so we could go on - yet another rambling protest at change from
aging "used to be" New Zealanders who would once have had theor
opinions published in newspapers concerned about an audience - running
their own website is appropriate, don't you think?
The comments cover a wide gamut of opinion and are pleasingly polite.
As they should be, not unexpected.
You picked a tiny number of points from the website post, and ignored
everything else.
The thrust of the article is clear, it is about racism; racism that exists
today in this country.
I prefer to call it self-serving race-based preferment which in this case
amounts to cultural exceptionalism.
What is being promoted and practised by exceptionalist activists and
condoned by their political fellow-travellers speaks of an exceptionalism and
exclusivity claimed as if by Devine Right by those who see themselves as "first
nation". Indeed, according to the late Sir Ranganui Walker[1], they will milk
this exceptionalism for all it's worth, in fact to the point where the overall
cost and disruption caused economically and societally becomes unnaturally and
inequitably disproportionate to the minority - and dare I say it, merit - of
those who would impose their far- too-often hokum ways on others.
Further, cultural activism by a minority of the kind under discussion will
always win out over a taken-for-granted cultural apathy among New Zealand's
characteristically fretful majority. So it is, I think, down to the latter to
just stop whining fruitlessly to each other, get off their apathetic butts and
actually get down to devising whatever is required to stem the unchecked
insinuation of a wholly self-serving minority exceptionalism they, the fretful
majority, perceive as a threat to their own cultural values. Moreover, if you
think or even actually believe this government, or any government come to that,
has become your master, then ask yourselves, in a voter-based democracy whose
fault is that?
[1] "The Maori will always have his hand in the white man's pocket". He also
meant this metaphorically.
For as long as Sir Ranganui Walker's unedifying warning continues to run,
don't be surprised if and when naked racism is given its ugly voice, and in
this instance nationwide to boot. Here it is, made known even as I was writing
https://tinyurl.com/y6oodu7s
The man is horrible, and has been for decades. Is he racist? Yes, most probably.
But that does not mean that there are no racist Maori and the Bassett article
contains much truth.
Post by James Christophers
https://tinyurl.com/y6h65de7
(The Daily Mail enjoys the dubious distinction of being the sole paper of
record catering to the hard-right, exceptionalist bigot and Brexiteer,
otherwise known collectively as "gammons".)
John Bowes
2021-01-28 10:51:47 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 25 Jan 2021 20:07:42 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Tony
https://www.bassettbrashandhide.com/post/new-zealand-s-modern-cultural-cringe?fbclid=IwAR3pMZaHFKa9yL7KPDCo-BC9cxTIxivr7MsHRn8-cMK37zzjG05EgGUvI-o
A plea to the bigotted, read the content not the publisher.
"All things derived from Europe except our creature comforts must be
set aside as we are expected to embrace all things Maori. "
That certainly sounds bizarre, but thankfully not at all consistent
with my experience. Most of my family tree goes back to England,
Ireland and Scotland in times when these were definitely not regarded
as being part of "Europe," but I see cultural changes including
greater recognition of our shared heritage now from Asia, Pacific
Islands and elsewhere as well as a return to the closer relationship
with Maori than I suspect we had in the early part of last century,
before the migration of many Maori to the cities.
"Several newspapers are falling into line" - into line with what?
There have been no changes to laws that have triggered any changes in
names used - it is possible that Bassett regrets we no longer use the
term "Mother Country", but this is not clear.
"We are expected to acquiesce." Really? Who by? What statements
support this?
And so we could go on - yet another rambling protest at change from
aging "used to be" New Zealanders who would once have had theor
opinions published in newspapers concerned about an audience - running
their own website is appropriate, don't you think?
The comments cover a wide gamut of opinion and are pleasingly polite.
As they should be, not unexpected.
You picked a tiny number of points from the website post, and ignored
everything else.
The thrust of the article is clear, it is about racism; racism that exists
today in this country.
I prefer to call it self-serving race-based preferment which in this case
amounts to cultural exceptionalism.
What is being promoted and practised by exceptionalist activists and
condoned by their political fellow-travellers speaks of an exceptionalism and
exclusivity claimed as if by Devine Right by those who see themselves as "first
nation". Indeed, according to the late Sir Ranganui Walker[1], they will milk
this exceptionalism for all it's worth, in fact to the point where the overall
cost and disruption caused economically and societally becomes unnaturally and
inequitably disproportionate to the minority - and dare I say it, merit - of
those who would impose their far- too-often hokum ways on others.
Further, cultural activism by a minority of the kind under discussion will
always win out over a taken-for-granted cultural apathy among New Zealand's
characteristically fretful majority. So it is, I think, down to the latter to
just stop whining fruitlessly to each other, get off their apathetic butts and
actually get down to devising whatever is required to stem the unchecked
insinuation of a wholly self-serving minority exceptionalism they, the fretful
majority, perceive as a threat to their own cultural values. Moreover, if you
think or even actually believe this government, or any government come to that,
has become your master, then ask yourselves, in a voter-based democracy whose
fault is that?
[1] "The Maori will always have his hand in the white man's pocket". He also
meant this metaphorically.
For as long as Sir Ranganui Walker's unedifying warning continues to run,
don't be surprised if and when naked racism is given its ugly voice, and in
this instance nationwide to boot. Here it is, made known even as I was writing
https://tinyurl.com/y6oodu7s
The man is horrible, and has been for decades. Is he racist? Yes, most probably.
But that does not mean that there are no racist Maori and the Bassett article
contains much truth.
Post by James Christophers
https://tinyurl.com/y6h65de7
(The Daily Mail enjoys the dubious distinction of being the sole paper of
record catering to the hard-right, exceptionalist bigot and Brexiteer,
otherwise known collectively as "gammons".)
The problem with racism that idiots like Rich ignore is it's not limited to one race!
Rich80105
2021-01-28 03:53:47 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Wed, 27 Jan 2021 13:00:47 -0800 (PST), James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 25 Jan 2021 20:07:42 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
https://www.bassettbrashandhide.com/post/new-zealand-s-modern-cultural-cringe?fbclid=IwAR3pMZaHFKa9yL7KPDCo-BC9cxTIxivr7MsHRn8-cMK37zzjG05EgGUvI-o
A plea to the bigotted, read the content not the publisher.
"All things derived from Europe except our creature comforts must be
set aside as we are expected to embrace all things Maori. "
That certainly sounds bizarre, but thankfully not at all consistent
with my experience. Most of my family tree goes back to England,
Ireland and Scotland in times when these were definitely not regarded
as being part of "Europe," but I see cultural changes including
greater recognition of our shared heritage now from Asia, Pacific
Islands and elsewhere as well as a return to the closer relationship
with Maori than I suspect we had in the early part of last century,
before the migration of many Maori to the cities.
"Several newspapers are falling into line" - into line with what?
There have been no changes to laws that have triggered any changes in
names used - it is possible that Bassett regrets we no longer use the
term "Mother Country", but this is not clear.
"We are expected to acquiesce." Really? Who by? What statements
support this?
And so we could go on - yet another rambling protest at change from
aging "used to be" New Zealanders who would once have had theor
opinions published in newspapers concerned about an audience - running
their own website is appropriate, don't you think?
The comments cover a wide gamut of opinion and are pleasingly polite.
As they should be, not unexpected.
You picked a tiny number of points from the website post, and ignored
everything else.
The thrust of the article is clear, it is about racism; racism that exists
today in this country.
I prefer to call it self-serving race-based preferment which in this case amounts to cultural exceptionalism.
What is being promoted and practised by exceptionalist activists and condoned by their political fellow-travellers speaks of an exceptionalism and exclusivity claimed as if by Devine Right by those who see themselves as "first nation". Indeed, according to the late Sir Ranganui Walker[1], they will milk this exceptionalism for all it's worth, in fact to the point where the overall cost and disruption caused economically and societally becomes unnaturally and inequitably disproportionate to the minority - and dare I say it, merit - of those who would impose their far- too-often hokum ways on others.
Further, cultural activism by a minority of the kind under discussion will always win out over a taken-for-granted cultural apathy among New Zealand's characteristically fretful majority. So it is, I think, down to the latter to just stop whining fruitlessly to each other, get off their apathetic butts and actually get down to devising whatever is required to stem the unchecked insinuation of a wholly self-serving minority exceptionalism they, the fretful majority, perceive as a threat to their own cultural values. Moreover, if you think or even actually believe this government, or any government come to that, has become your master, then ask yourselves, in a voter-based democracy whose fault is that?
[1] "The Maori will always have his hand in the white man's pocket". He also meant this metaphorically.
https://tinyurl.com/y6oodu7s
https://tinyurl.com/y6h65de7
(The Daily Mail enjoys the dubious distinction of being the sole paper of record catering to the hard-right, exceptionalist bigot and Brexiteer, otherwise known collectively as "gammons".)
Banks is of course from much the same generation as Bassett; what is
encouraging is the reaction of the radio station, who are doubtless
aware that advertisers will want to avoid controversy; and have
probably set a new bar on support for repugnant views being supported
by media "personalities" An example of the market working as it
should!
Tony
2021-01-28 06:15:44 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 27 Jan 2021 13:00:47 -0800 (PST), James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 25 Jan 2021 20:07:42 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Tony
https://www.bassettbrashandhide.com/post/new-zealand-s-modern-cultural-cringe?fbclid=IwAR3pMZaHFKa9yL7KPDCo-BC9cxTIxivr7MsHRn8-cMK37zzjG05EgGUvI-o
A plea to the bigotted, read the content not the publisher.
"All things derived from Europe except our creature comforts must be
set aside as we are expected to embrace all things Maori. "
That certainly sounds bizarre, but thankfully not at all consistent
with my experience. Most of my family tree goes back to England,
Ireland and Scotland in times when these were definitely not regarded
as being part of "Europe," but I see cultural changes including
greater recognition of our shared heritage now from Asia, Pacific
Islands and elsewhere as well as a return to the closer relationship
with Maori than I suspect we had in the early part of last century,
before the migration of many Maori to the cities.
"Several newspapers are falling into line" - into line with what?
There have been no changes to laws that have triggered any changes in
names used - it is possible that Bassett regrets we no longer use the
term "Mother Country", but this is not clear.
"We are expected to acquiesce." Really? Who by? What statements
support this?
And so we could go on - yet another rambling protest at change from
aging "used to be" New Zealanders who would once have had theor
opinions published in newspapers concerned about an audience - running
their own website is appropriate, don't you think?
The comments cover a wide gamut of opinion and are pleasingly polite.
As they should be, not unexpected.
You picked a tiny number of points from the website post, and ignored
everything else.
The thrust of the article is clear, it is about racism; racism that exists
today in this country.
I prefer to call it self-serving race-based preferment which in this case
amounts to cultural exceptionalism.
What is being promoted and practised by exceptionalist activists and
condoned by their political fellow-travellers speaks of an exceptionalism and
exclusivity claimed as if by Devine Right by those who see themselves as "first
nation". Indeed, according to the late Sir Ranganui Walker[1], they will milk
this exceptionalism for all it's worth, in fact to the point where the overall
cost and disruption caused economically and societally becomes unnaturally and
inequitably disproportionate to the minority - and dare I say it, merit - of
those who would impose their far- too-often hokum ways on others.
Further, cultural activism by a minority of the kind under discussion will
always win out over a taken-for-granted cultural apathy among New Zealand's
characteristically fretful majority. So it is, I think, down to the latter to
just stop whining fruitlessly to each other, get off their apathetic butts and
actually get down to devising whatever is required to stem the unchecked
insinuation of a wholly self-serving minority exceptionalism they, the fretful
majority, perceive as a threat to their own cultural values. Moreover, if you
think or even actually believe this government, or any government come to that,
has become your master, then ask yourselves, in a voter-based democracy whose
fault is that?
[1] "The Maori will always have his hand in the white man's pocket". He
also meant this metaphorically.
For as long as Sir Ranganui Walker's unedifying warning continues to run,
don't be surprised if and when naked racism is given its ugly voice, and in
this instance nationwide to boot. Here it is, made known even as I was writing
https://tinyurl.com/y6oodu7s
https://tinyurl.com/y6h65de7
(The Daily Mail enjoys the dubious distinction of being the sole paper of
record catering to the hard-right, exceptionalist bigot and Brexiteer,
otherwise known collectively as "gammons".)
Banks is of course from much the same generation as Bassett;
As I warned in the original post, please consider the content, not who
published it,
It seems you cannot do that.
Banks is a racist, Bassett has not yet demonstrated anything like that so why
do you lump them together.
Post by Rich80105
what is
encouraging is the reaction of the radio station, who are doubtless
aware that advertisers will want to avoid controversy; and have
probably set a new bar on support for repugnant views being supported
by media "personalities" An example of the market working as it
should!
John Bowes
2021-01-28 10:56:18 UTC
Reply
Permalink
<large snip>
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Banks is of course from much the same generation as Bassett;
As I warned in the original post, please consider the content, not who
published it,
It seems you cannot do that.
Banks is a racist, Bassett has not yet demonstrated anything like that so why
do you lump them together.
<garbage snipped>

Rich can't help himself Tony. Typical of the imbeciles that worship Marx and his stupidity....
John Bowes
2021-01-28 10:54:06 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Thursday, January 28, 2021 at 4:53:57 PM UTC+13, Rich80105 wrote:
<large snip>
Post by Rich80105
Banks is of course from much the same generation as Bassett; what is
encouraging is the reaction of the radio station, who are doubtless
aware that advertisers will want to avoid controversy; and have
probably set a new bar on support for repugnant views being supported
by media "personalities" An example of the market working as it
should!
No Rich! It's censorship of the worst kind. I've little time for Banks but silencing him isn't going to make the problem go away. just sweep it under the rug!
James Christophers
2021-01-28 22:27:19 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 27 Jan 2021 13:00:47 -0800 (PST), James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 25 Jan 2021 20:07:42 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
https://www.bassettbrashandhide.com/post/new-zealand-s-modern-cultural-cringe?fbclid=IwAR3pMZaHFKa9yL7KPDCo-BC9cxTIxivr7MsHRn8-cMK37zzjG05EgGUvI-o
A plea to the bigotted, read the content not the publisher.
"All things derived from Europe except our creature comforts must be
set aside as we are expected to embrace all things Maori. "
That certainly sounds bizarre, but thankfully not at all consistent
with my experience. Most of my family tree goes back to England,
Ireland and Scotland in times when these were definitely not regarded
as being part of "Europe," but I see cultural changes including
greater recognition of our shared heritage now from Asia, Pacific
Islands and elsewhere as well as a return to the closer relationship
with Maori than I suspect we had in the early part of last century,
before the migration of many Maori to the cities.
"Several newspapers are falling into line" - into line with what?
There have been no changes to laws that have triggered any changes in
names used - it is possible that Bassett regrets we no longer use the
term "Mother Country", but this is not clear.
"We are expected to acquiesce." Really? Who by? What statements
support this?
And so we could go on - yet another rambling protest at change from
aging "used to be" New Zealanders who would once have had theor
opinions published in newspapers concerned about an audience - running
their own website is appropriate, don't you think?
The comments cover a wide gamut of opinion and are pleasingly polite.
As they should be, not unexpected.
You picked a tiny number of points from the website post, and ignored
everything else.
The thrust of the article is clear, it is about racism; racism that exists
today in this country.
I prefer to call it self-serving race-based preferment which in this case amounts to cultural exceptionalism.
What is being promoted and practised by exceptionalist activists and condoned by their political fellow-travellers speaks of an exceptionalism and exclusivity claimed as if by Devine Right by those who see themselves as "first nation". Indeed, according to the late Sir Ranganui Walker[1], they will milk this exceptionalism for all it's worth, in fact to the point where the overall cost and disruption caused economically and societally becomes unnaturally and inequitably disproportionate to the minority - and dare I say it, merit - of those who would impose their far- too-often hokum ways on others.
Further, cultural activism by a minority of the kind under discussion will always win out over a taken-for-granted cultural apathy among New Zealand's characteristically fretful majority. So it is, I think, down to the latter to just stop whining fruitlessly to each other, get off their apathetic butts and actually get down to devising whatever is required to stem the unchecked insinuation of a wholly self-serving minority exceptionalism they, the fretful majority, perceive as a threat to their own cultural values. Moreover, if you think or even actually believe this government, or any government come to that, has become your master, then ask yourselves, in a voter-based democracy whose fault is that?
[1] "The Maori will always have his hand in the white man's pocket". He also meant this metaphorically.
https://tinyurl.com/y6oodu7s
https://tinyurl.com/y6h65de7
(The Daily Mail enjoys the dubious distinction of being the sole paper of record catering to the hard-right, exceptionalist bigot and Brexiteer, otherwise known collectively as "gammons".)
Banks is of course from much the same generation as Bassett;
So the two gentlemen are contemporaries. So what? Exactly what other equivalence are you suggesting?
Post by Rich80105
what is
encouraging is the reaction of the radio station, who are doubtless
aware that advertisers will want to avoid controversy; and have
probably set a new bar on support for repugnant views being supported
by media "personalities" An example of the market working as it
should!
That's another aspect of it, but it doesn't contribute to addressing the core issue: the deliberately provocative behaviour of both Basset and Banks. The two may differ in so-called "style", but it essentially amounts to the same thing: the titillating of man's baser primal instincts[1] while knowing it must provoke and foment cultural and race-based disharmony. The moment this happens, all rational argument flies out the window leaving nothing but heated rhetoric and resentment.

[1] 'Primal' in this sense implies 'ineradicable', which is exactly what subtle propagandists and firebrands trade on - the perpetuation of fear, loathing, mistrust and division in order to gain influence and dominance within a nation's cultural and instinctual thought processes - e.g. Nazism's Krystallnacht or Trump's fomented insurgency and putsch against the Capitol and the US Constitution itself.
Rich80105
2021-01-29 00:06:49 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Thu, 28 Jan 2021 14:27:19 -0800 (PST), James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 27 Jan 2021 13:00:47 -0800 (PST), James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 25 Jan 2021 20:07:42 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
https://www.bassettbrashandhide.com/post/new-zealand-s-modern-cultural-cringe?fbclid=IwAR3pMZaHFKa9yL7KPDCo-BC9cxTIxivr7MsHRn8-cMK37zzjG05EgGUvI-o
A plea to the bigotted, read the content not the publisher.
"All things derived from Europe except our creature comforts must be
set aside as we are expected to embrace all things Maori. "
That certainly sounds bizarre, but thankfully not at all consistent
with my experience. Most of my family tree goes back to England,
Ireland and Scotland in times when these were definitely not regarded
as being part of "Europe," but I see cultural changes including
greater recognition of our shared heritage now from Asia, Pacific
Islands and elsewhere as well as a return to the closer relationship
with Maori than I suspect we had in the early part of last century,
before the migration of many Maori to the cities.
"Several newspapers are falling into line" - into line with what?
There have been no changes to laws that have triggered any changes in
names used - it is possible that Bassett regrets we no longer use the
term "Mother Country", but this is not clear.
"We are expected to acquiesce." Really? Who by? What statements
support this?
And so we could go on - yet another rambling protest at change from
aging "used to be" New Zealanders who would once have had theor
opinions published in newspapers concerned about an audience - running
their own website is appropriate, don't you think?
The comments cover a wide gamut of opinion and are pleasingly polite.
As they should be, not unexpected.
You picked a tiny number of points from the website post, and ignored
everything else.
The thrust of the article is clear, it is about racism; racism that exists
today in this country.
I prefer to call it self-serving race-based preferment which in this case amounts to cultural exceptionalism.
What is being promoted and practised by exceptionalist activists and condoned by their political fellow-travellers speaks of an exceptionalism and exclusivity claimed as if by Devine Right by those who see themselves as "first nation". Indeed, according to the late Sir Ranganui Walker[1], they will milk this exceptionalism for all it's worth, in fact to the point where the overall cost and disruption caused economically and societally becomes unnaturally and inequitably disproportionate to the minority - and dare I say it, merit - of those who would impose their far- too-often hokum ways on others.
Further, cultural activism by a minority of the kind under discussion will always win out over a taken-for-granted cultural apathy among New Zealand's characteristically fretful majority. So it is, I think, down to the latter to just stop whining fruitlessly to each other, get off their apathetic butts and actually get down to devising whatever is required to stem the unchecked insinuation of a wholly self-serving minority exceptionalism they, the fretful majority, perceive as a threat to their own cultural values. Moreover, if you think or even actually believe this government, or any government come to that, has become your master, then ask yourselves, in a voter-based democracy whose fault is that?
[1] "The Maori will always have his hand in the white man's pocket". He also meant this metaphorically.
https://tinyurl.com/y6oodu7s
https://tinyurl.com/y6h65de7
(The Daily Mail enjoys the dubious distinction of being the sole paper of record catering to the hard-right, exceptionalist bigot and Brexiteer, otherwise known collectively as "gammons".)
Banks is of course from much the same generation as Bassett;
So the two gentlemen are contemporaries. So what? Exactly what other equivalence are you suggesting?
Just that - they were invovled in politics at a similar time - and
their adversarial expression of views; their view that their opinions
should be seen as authoritative; in short their arrogance, and you
rightly describe it below their deliberately provocative behaviour.
They came from diffeent parties, but both seem to have been left
behind by less tolerant views towards racial discrimination, and to
tolerance of diversity. Bassett (aged 82) is older than Banks (aged
74), but both were Cabinet Ministers at a similar time - Basset 1987
tp 1990; Banks from 1990 to 1996 (and then later for ACT, where
Bassett has sympathies - he was an unofficial adviser to Brash in the
period 2003 to 2006
Post by James Christophers
Post by Rich80105
what is
encouraging is the reaction of the radio station, who are doubtless
aware that advertisers will want to avoid controversy; and have
probably set a new bar on support for repugnant views being supported
by media "personalities" An example of the market working as it
should!
That's another aspect of it, but it doesn't contribute to addressing the core issue: the deliberately provocative behaviour of both Basset and Banks. The two may differ in so-called "style", but it essentially amounts to the same thing: the titillating of man's baser primal instincts[1] while knowing it must provoke and foment cultural and race-based disharmony. The moment this happens, all rational argument flies out the window leaving nothing but heated rhetoric and resentment.
[1] 'Primal' in this sense implies 'ineradicable', which is exactly what subtle propagandists and firebrands trade on - the perpetuation of fear, loathing, mistrust and division in order to gain influence and dominance within a nation's cultural and instinctual thought processes - e.g. Nazism's Krystallnacht or Trump's fomented insurgency and putsch against the Capitol and the US Constitution itself.
James Christophers
2021-01-29 02:29:38 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 28 Jan 2021 14:27:19 -0800 (PST), James Christophers
Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 27 Jan 2021 13:00:47 -0800 (PST), James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 25 Jan 2021 20:07:42 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
https://www.bassettbrashandhide.com/post/new-zealand-s-modern-cultural-cringe?fbclid=IwAR3pMZaHFKa9yL7KPDCo-BC9cxTIxivr7MsHRn8-cMK37zzjG05EgGUvI-o
A plea to the bigotted, read the content not the publisher.
"All things derived from Europe except our creature comforts must be
set aside as we are expected to embrace all things Maori. "
That certainly sounds bizarre, but thankfully not at all consistent
with my experience. Most of my family tree goes back to England,
Ireland and Scotland in times when these were definitely not regarded
as being part of "Europe," but I see cultural changes including
greater recognition of our shared heritage now from Asia, Pacific
Islands and elsewhere as well as a return to the closer relationship
with Maori than I suspect we had in the early part of last century,
before the migration of many Maori to the cities.
"Several newspapers are falling into line" - into line with what?
There have been no changes to laws that have triggered any changes in
names used - it is possible that Bassett regrets we no longer use the
term "Mother Country", but this is not clear.
"We are expected to acquiesce." Really? Who by? What statements
support this?
And so we could go on - yet another rambling protest at change from
aging "used to be" New Zealanders who would once have had theor
opinions published in newspapers concerned about an audience - running
their own website is appropriate, don't you think?
The comments cover a wide gamut of opinion and are pleasingly polite.
As they should be, not unexpected.
You picked a tiny number of points from the website post, and ignored
everything else.
The thrust of the article is clear, it is about racism; racism that exists
today in this country.
I prefer to call it self-serving race-based preferment which in this case amounts to cultural exceptionalism.
What is being promoted and practised by exceptionalist activists and condoned by their political fellow-travellers speaks of an exceptionalism and exclusivity claimed as if by Devine Right by those who see themselves as "first nation". Indeed, according to the late Sir Ranganui Walker[1], they will milk this exceptionalism for all it's worth, in fact to the point where the overall cost and disruption caused economically and societally becomes unnaturally and inequitably disproportionate to the minority - and dare I say it, merit - of those who would impose their far- too-often hokum ways on others.
Further, cultural activism by a minority of the kind under discussion will always win out over a taken-for-granted cultural apathy among New Zealand's characteristically fretful majority. So it is, I think, down to the latter to just stop whining fruitlessly to each other, get off their apathetic butts and actually get down to devising whatever is required to stem the unchecked insinuation of a wholly self-serving minority exceptionalism they, the fretful majority, perceive as a threat to their own cultural values. Moreover, if you think or even actually believe this government, or any government come to that, has become your master, then ask yourselves, in a voter-based democracy whose fault is that?
[1] "The Maori will always have his hand in the white man's pocket". He also meant this metaphorically.
https://tinyurl.com/y6oodu7s
https://tinyurl.com/y6h65de7
(The Daily Mail enjoys the dubious distinction of being the sole paper of record catering to the hard-right, exceptionalist bigot and Brexiteer, otherwise known collectively as "gammons".)
Banks is of course from much the same generation as Bassett;
So the two gentlemen are contemporaries. So what? Exactly what other equivalence are you suggesting?
Just that - they were invovled in politics at a similar time - and
their adversarial expression of views; their view that their opinions
should be seen as authoritative; in short their arrogance, and you
rightly describe it below their deliberately provocative behaviour.
But there still remains a definable difference between the two. Banks is unembarrassed and uncomplicated in his opinions and his bull-in-a-china-shop ways of expressing them. IOW he is wantonly, nakedly, shamelessly "-ist" to every last fibre of his being as is every bonehead bigot and contrarian you will ever meet. Basset not so, that's if his article is anything to go by. In fact his is more a message, a wakeup call, to the non-maori majority to look to their own cultural interests and preferments, and to be sure adequately to guard and preserve them against what he sees as the undue ingress of minority's cultural (not specifically "racist") customs, mores and values that he perceives can only unduly dilute and subvert or even supplant them.

But - and it is a big but - he offers not one word on how, collectively, the majority might contrive and effect the required remedy when the cultural majority - yes, along with the "opposing" minority - have for too long been indoctrinated, as one, in what I view as the culturally, spiritually and morally regressive and insinuating ways of Political Correctness gone mad.

So his article fails not only because of this crucial in-yer-face omission, but also because Basset is, as it were, too late by a country mile, being himself for too long a part of the very problem he now brings - again too late - to both the majority's already pitiful attention-span, and the adminstration's too-hard basket.

Nature abhors a vacuum and will always seek to fill it. This applies as much to a lack of moral substance and determination in a nation's core psyche and identity as any other you can name.

So, is this condition as put by Basset **actually capable** of change and/or reversal? Well, frankly, and since you have yet to suggest such a thing, I think it is now for you and any others contemplating this current scenario to decide for yourselves.
Post by Rich80105
They came from diffeent parties, but both seem to have been left
behind by less tolerant views towards racial discrimination, and to
tolerance of diversity. Bassett (aged 82) is older than Banks (aged
74), but both were Cabinet Ministers at a similar time - Basset 1987
tp 1990; Banks from 1990 to 1996 (and then later for ACT, where
Bassett has sympathies - he was an unofficial adviser to Brash in the
period 2003 to 2006
Post by Rich80105
what is
encouraging is the reaction of the radio station, who are doubtless
aware that advertisers will want to avoid controversy; and have
probably set a new bar on support for repugnant views being supported
by media "personalities" An example of the market working as it
should!
That's another aspect of it, but it doesn't contribute to addressing the core issue: the deliberately provocative behaviour of both Basset and Banks. The two may differ in so-called "style", but it essentially amounts to the same thing: the titillating of man's baser primal instincts[1] while knowing it must provoke and foment cultural and race-based disharmony. The moment this happens, all rational argument flies out the window leaving nothing but heated rhetoric and resentment.
[1] 'Primal' in this sense implies 'ineradicable', which is exactly what subtle propagandists and firebrands trade on - the perpetuation of fear, loathing, mistrust and division in order to gain influence and dominance within a nation's cultural and instinctual thought processes - e.g. Nazism's Krystallnacht or Trump's fomented insurgency and putsch against the Capitol and the US Constitution itself.
Rich80105
2021-01-29 03:31:07 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Thu, 28 Jan 2021 18:29:38 -0800 (PST), James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 28 Jan 2021 14:27:19 -0800 (PST), James Christophers
Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 27 Jan 2021 13:00:47 -0800 (PST), James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 25 Jan 2021 20:07:42 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
https://www.bassettbrashandhide.com/post/new-zealand-s-modern-cultural-cringe?fbclid=IwAR3pMZaHFKa9yL7KPDCo-BC9cxTIxivr7MsHRn8-cMK37zzjG05EgGUvI-o
A plea to the bigotted, read the content not the publisher.
"All things derived from Europe except our creature comforts must be
set aside as we are expected to embrace all things Maori. "
That certainly sounds bizarre, but thankfully not at all consistent
with my experience. Most of my family tree goes back to England,
Ireland and Scotland in times when these were definitely not regarded
as being part of "Europe," but I see cultural changes including
greater recognition of our shared heritage now from Asia, Pacific
Islands and elsewhere as well as a return to the closer relationship
with Maori than I suspect we had in the early part of last century,
before the migration of many Maori to the cities.
"Several newspapers are falling into line" - into line with what?
There have been no changes to laws that have triggered any changes in
names used - it is possible that Bassett regrets we no longer use the
term "Mother Country", but this is not clear.
"We are expected to acquiesce." Really? Who by? What statements
support this?
And so we could go on - yet another rambling protest at change from
aging "used to be" New Zealanders who would once have had theor
opinions published in newspapers concerned about an audience - running
their own website is appropriate, don't you think?
The comments cover a wide gamut of opinion and are pleasingly polite.
As they should be, not unexpected.
You picked a tiny number of points from the website post, and ignored
everything else.
The thrust of the article is clear, it is about racism; racism that exists
today in this country.
I prefer to call it self-serving race-based preferment which in this case amounts to cultural exceptionalism.
What is being promoted and practised by exceptionalist activists and condoned by their political fellow-travellers speaks of an exceptionalism and exclusivity claimed as if by Devine Right by those who see themselves as "first nation". Indeed, according to the late Sir Ranganui Walker[1], they will milk this exceptionalism for all it's worth, in fact to the point where the overall cost and disruption caused economically and societally becomes unnaturally and inequitably disproportionate to the minority - and dare I say it, merit - of those who would impose their far- too-often hokum ways on others.
Further, cultural activism by a minority of the kind under discussion will always win out over a taken-for-granted cultural apathy among New Zealand's characteristically fretful majority. So it is, I think, down to the latter to just stop whining fruitlessly to each other, get off their apathetic butts and actually get down to devising whatever is required to stem the unchecked insinuation of a wholly self-serving minority exceptionalism they, the fretful majority, perceive as a threat to their own cultural values. Moreover, if you think or even actually believe this government, or any government come to that, has become your master, then ask yourselves, in a voter-based democracy whose fault is that?
[1] "The Maori will always have his hand in the white man's pocket". He also meant this metaphorically.
https://tinyurl.com/y6oodu7s
https://tinyurl.com/y6h65de7
(The Daily Mail enjoys the dubious distinction of being the sole paper of record catering to the hard-right, exceptionalist bigot and Brexiteer, otherwise known collectively as "gammons".)
Banks is of course from much the same generation as Bassett;
So the two gentlemen are contemporaries. So what? Exactly what other equivalence are you suggesting?
Just that - they were invovled in politics at a similar time - and
their adversarial expression of views; their view that their opinions
should be seen as authoritative; in short their arrogance, and you
rightly describe it below their deliberately provocative behaviour.
But there still remains a definable difference between the two. Banks is unembarrassed and uncomplicated in his opinions and his bull-in-a-china-shop ways of expressing them. IOW he is wantonly, nakedly, shamelessly "-ist" to every last fibre of his being as is every bonehead bigot and contrarian you will ever meet. Basset not so, that's if his article is anything to go by. In fact his is more a message, a wakeup call, to the non-maori majority to look to their own cultural interests and preferments, and to be sure adequately to guard and preserve them against what he sees as the undue ingress of minority's cultural (not specifically "racist") customs, mores and values that he perceives can only unduly dilute and subvert or even supplant them.
I agree - being of the same generation does not eliminate differences
- it may have given them a similar acceptance of the mores of their
time, particularly regarding political comment, but they are not the
same.
Post by James Christophers
But - and it is a big but - he offers not one word on how, collectively, the majority might contrive and effect the required remedy when the cultural majority - yes, along with the "opposing" minority - have for too long been indoctrinated, as one, in what I view as the culturally, spiritually and morally regressive and insinuating ways of Political Correctness gone mad.
So his article fails not only because of this crucial in-yer-face omission, but also because Basset is, as it were, too late by a country mile, being himself for too long a part of the very problem he now brings - again too late - to both the majority's already pitiful attention-span, and the adminstration's too-hard basket.
Nature abhors a vacuum and will always seek to fill it. This applies as much to a lack of moral substance and determination in a nation's core psyche and identity as any other you can name.
I agree. The reality is that both major parties have allowed
immigration from a wider range of countries in recent years - and that
has meant that even National found it necessary to select candidates
with Maori, Chinese and Indian backgrounds. The acceptance of
multi-culturalism has highlights the previous lack of acceptance of
Maori culture, and that has been emphasises by the Treaty claim
process - again supported by both Labour and National, that has
highlighted past injustices. Both Basset and Banks are too
self-centred to understand that they are reaping the natural reqard
for past political decisions; it is just that they are set in their
self-centred ways to see that they are not keeping up.
Post by James Christophers
So, is this condition as put by Basset **actually capable** of change and/or reversal? Well, frankly, and since you have yet to suggest such a thing, I think it is now for you and any others contemplating this current scenario to decide for yourselves.
Post by Rich80105
They came from diffeent parties, but both seem to have been left
behind by less tolerant views towards racial discrimination, and to
tolerance of diversity. Bassett (aged 82) is older than Banks (aged
74), but both were Cabinet Ministers at a similar time - Basset 1987
tp 1990; Banks from 1990 to 1996 (and then later for ACT, where
Bassett has sympathies - he was an unofficial adviser to Brash in the
period 2003 to 2006
Post by Rich80105
what is
encouraging is the reaction of the radio station, who are doubtless
aware that advertisers will want to avoid controversy; and have
probably set a new bar on support for repugnant views being supported
by media "personalities" An example of the market working as it
should!
That's another aspect of it, but it doesn't contribute to addressing the core issue: the deliberately provocative behaviour of both Basset and Banks. The two may differ in so-called "style", but it essentially amounts to the same thing: the titillating of man's baser primal instincts[1] while knowing it must provoke and foment cultural and race-based disharmony. The moment this happens, all rational argument flies out the window leaving nothing but heated rhetoric and resentment.
[1] 'Primal' in this sense implies 'ineradicable', which is exactly what subtle propagandists and firebrands trade on - the perpetuation of fear, loathing, mistrust and division in order to gain influence and dominance within a nation's cultural and instinctual thought processes - e.g. Nazism's Krystallnacht or Trump's fomented insurgency and putsch against the Capitol and the US Constitution itself.
James Christophers
2021-01-30 01:16:40 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 28 Jan 2021 18:29:38 -0800 (PST), James Christophers
Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 28 Jan 2021 14:27:19 -0800 (PST), James Christophers
Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 27 Jan 2021 13:00:47 -0800 (PST), James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 25 Jan 2021 20:07:42 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
https://www.bassettbrashandhide.com/post/new-zealand-s-modern-cultural-cringe?fbclid=IwAR3pMZaHFKa9yL7KPDCo-BC9cxTIxivr7MsHRn8-cMK37zzjG05EgGUvI-o
A plea to the bigotted, read the content not the publisher.
"All things derived from Europe except our creature comforts must be
set aside as we are expected to embrace all things Maori. "
That certainly sounds bizarre, but thankfully not at all consistent
with my experience. Most of my family tree goes back to England,
Ireland and Scotland in times when these were definitely not regarded
as being part of "Europe," but I see cultural changes including
greater recognition of our shared heritage now from Asia, Pacific
Islands and elsewhere as well as a return to the closer relationship
with Maori than I suspect we had in the early part of last century,
before the migration of many Maori to the cities.
"Several newspapers are falling into line" - into line with what?
There have been no changes to laws that have triggered any changes in
names used - it is possible that Bassett regrets we no longer use the
term "Mother Country", but this is not clear.
"We are expected to acquiesce." Really? Who by? What statements
support this?
And so we could go on - yet another rambling protest at change from
aging "used to be" New Zealanders who would once have had theor
opinions published in newspapers concerned about an audience - running
their own website is appropriate, don't you think?
The comments cover a wide gamut of opinion and are pleasingly polite.
As they should be, not unexpected.
You picked a tiny number of points from the website post, and ignored
everything else.
The thrust of the article is clear, it is about racism; racism that exists
today in this country.
I prefer to call it self-serving race-based preferment which in this case amounts to cultural exceptionalism.
What is being promoted and practised by exceptionalist activists and condoned by their political fellow-travellers speaks of an exceptionalism and exclusivity claimed as if by Devine Right by those who see themselves as "first nation". Indeed, according to the late Sir Ranganui Walker[1], they will milk this exceptionalism for all it's worth, in fact to the point where the overall cost and disruption caused economically and societally becomes unnaturally and inequitably disproportionate to the minority - and dare I say it, merit - of those who would impose their far- too-often hokum ways on others.
Further, cultural activism by a minority of the kind under discussion will always win out over a taken-for-granted cultural apathy among New Zealand's characteristically fretful majority. So it is, I think, down to the latter to just stop whining fruitlessly to each other, get off their apathetic butts and actually get down to devising whatever is required to stem the unchecked insinuation of a wholly self-serving minority exceptionalism they, the fretful majority, perceive as a threat to their own cultural values. Moreover, if you think or even actually believe this government, or any government come to that, has become your master, then ask yourselves, in a voter-based democracy whose fault is that?
[1] "The Maori will always have his hand in the white man's pocket". He also meant this metaphorically.
https://tinyurl.com/y6oodu7s
https://tinyurl.com/y6h65de7
(The Daily Mail enjoys the dubious distinction of being the sole paper of record catering to the hard-right, exceptionalist bigot and Brexiteer, otherwise known collectively as "gammons".)
Banks is of course from much the same generation as Bassett;
So the two gentlemen are contemporaries. So what? Exactly what other equivalence are you suggesting?
Just that - they were invovled in politics at a similar time - and
their adversarial expression of views; their view that their opinions
should be seen as authoritative; in short their arrogance, and you
rightly describe it below their deliberately provocative behaviour.
But there still remains a definable difference between the two. Banks is unembarrassed and uncomplicated in his opinions and his bull-in-a-china-shop ways of expressing them. IOW he is wantonly, nakedly, shamelessly "-ist" to every last fibre of his being as is every bonehead bigot and contrarian you will ever meet. Basset not so, that's if his article is anything to go by. In fact his is more a message, a wakeup call, to the non-maori majority to look to their own cultural interests and preferments, and to be sure adequately to guard and preserve them against what he sees as the undue ingress of minority's cultural (not specifically "racist") customs, mores and values that he perceives can only unduly dilute and subvert or even supplant them.
I agree - being of the same generation does not eliminate differences
- it may have given them a similar acceptance of the mores of their
time, particularly regarding political comment, but they are not the
same.
But - and it is a big but - he offers not one word on how, collectively, the majority might contrive and effect the required remedy when the cultural majority - yes, along with the "opposing" minority - have for too long been indoctrinated, as one, in what I view as the culturally, spiritually and morally regressive and insinuating ways of Political Correctness gone mad.
So his article fails not only because of this crucial in-yer-face omission, but also because Basset is, as it were, too late by a country mile, being himself for too long a part of the very problem he now brings - again too late - to both the majority's already pitiful attention-span, and the adminstration's too-hard basket.
Nature abhors a vacuum and will always seek to fill it. This applies as much to a lack of moral substance and determination in a nation's core psyche and identity as any other you can name.
I agree. The reality is that both major parties have allowed
immigration from a wider range of countries in recent years - and that
has meant that even National found it necessary to select candidates
with Maori, Chinese and Indian backgrounds. The acceptance of
multi-culturalism has highlights the previous lack of acceptance of
Maori culture, and that has been emphasises by the Treaty claim
process - again supported by both Labour and National, that has
highlighted past injustices. Both Basset and Banks are too
self-centred to understand that they are reaping the natural reqard
for past political decisions; it is just that they are set in their
self-centred ways to see that they are not keeping up.
All of which may be so. But what could be more instructive than to witness two raddled and determinedly pakeha commentators exercising their long-since decrepit defence mechanisms, a piteous behaviour only further emphasising and exposing their own way-up-there-in-lights cultural insecurities?

And as if to pile Pelion on Ossa, I rather doubt whether today's maori 16.7% percent of the total population occupying 25% of our 120-seat Parliament will bring them any comfort or reassurance, either.
Tony
2021-01-30 01:47:54 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by James Christophers
Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 28 Jan 2021 18:29:38 -0800 (PST), James Christophers
Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 28 Jan 2021 14:27:19 -0800 (PST), James Christophers
Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 27 Jan 2021 13:00:47 -0800 (PST), James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 25 Jan 2021 20:07:42 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon
dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Tony
https://www.bassettbrashandhide.com/post/new-zealand-s-modern-cultural-cringe?fbclid=IwAR3pMZaHFKa9yL7KPDCo-BC9cxTIxivr7MsHRn8-cMK37zzjG05EgGUvI-o
A plea to the bigotted, read the content not the publisher.
"All things derived from Europe except our creature comforts
must be
set aside as we are expected to embrace all things Maori. "
That certainly sounds bizarre, but thankfully not at all
consistent
with my experience. Most of my family tree goes back to England,
Ireland and Scotland in times when these were definitely not
regarded
as being part of "Europe," but I see cultural changes including
greater recognition of our shared heritage now from Asia, Pacific
Islands and elsewhere as well as a return to the closer
relationship
with Maori than I suspect we had in the early part of last
century,
before the migration of many Maori to the cities.
"Several newspapers are falling into line" - into line with what?
There have been no changes to laws that have triggered any
changes in
names used - it is possible that Bassett regrets we no longer
use the
term "Mother Country", but this is not clear.
"We are expected to acquiesce." Really? Who by? What statements
support this?
And so we could go on - yet another rambling protest at change
from
aging "used to be" New Zealanders who would once have had theor
opinions published in newspapers concerned about an audience -
running
their own website is appropriate, don't you think?
The comments cover a wide gamut of opinion and are pleasingly
polite.
As they should be, not unexpected.
You picked a tiny number of points from the website post, and
ignored
everything else.
The thrust of the article is clear, it is about racism; racism
that exists
today in this country.
I prefer to call it self-serving race-based preferment which in
this case amounts to cultural exceptionalism.
What is being promoted and practised by exceptionalist activists
and condoned by their political fellow-travellers speaks of an exceptionalism
and exclusivity claimed as if by Devine Right by those who see themselves as
"first nation". Indeed, according to the late Sir Ranganui Walker[1], they will
milk this exceptionalism for all it's worth, in fact to the point where the
overall cost and disruption caused economically and societally becomes
unnaturally and inequitably disproportionate to the minority - and dare I say
it, merit - of those who would impose their far- too-often hokum ways on
others.
Further, cultural activism by a minority of the kind under
discussion will always win out over a taken-for-granted cultural apathy among
New Zealand's characteristically fretful majority. So it is, I think, down to
the latter to just stop whining fruitlessly to each other, get off their
apathetic butts and actually get down to devising whatever is required to stem
the unchecked insinuation of a wholly self-serving minority exceptionalism
they, the fretful majority, perceive as a threat to their own cultural values.
Moreover, if you think or even actually believe this government, or any
government come to that, has become your master, then ask yourselves, in a
voter-based democracy whose fault is that?
[1] "The Maori will always have his hand in the white man's
pocket". He also meant this metaphorically.
For as long as Sir Ranganui Walker's unedifying warning continues to
run, don't be surprised if and when naked racism is given its ugly voice, and
in this instance nationwide to boot. Here it is, made known even as I was
https://tinyurl.com/y6oodu7s
https://tinyurl.com/y6h65de7
(The Daily Mail enjoys the dubious distinction of being the sole
paper of record catering to the hard-right, exceptionalist bigot and Brexiteer,
otherwise known collectively as "gammons".)
Banks is of course from much the same generation as Bassett;
So the two gentlemen are contemporaries. So what? Exactly what other
equivalence are you suggesting?
Just that - they were invovled in politics at a similar time - and
their adversarial expression of views; their view that their opinions
should be seen as authoritative; in short their arrogance, and you
rightly describe it below their deliberately provocative behaviour.
But there still remains a definable difference between the two. Banks is
unembarrassed and uncomplicated in his opinions and his bull-in-a-china-shop
ways of expressing them. IOW he is wantonly, nakedly, shamelessly "-ist" to
every last fibre of his being as is every bonehead bigot and contrarian you
will ever meet. Basset not so, that's if his article is anything to go by. In
fact his is more a message, a wakeup call, to the non-maori majority to look to
their own cultural interests and preferments, and to be sure adequately to
guard and preserve them against what he sees as the undue ingress of minority's
cultural (not specifically "racist") customs, mores and values that he
perceives can only unduly dilute and subvert or even supplant them.
I agree - being of the same generation does not eliminate differences
- it may have given them a similar acceptance of the mores of their
time, particularly regarding political comment, but they are not the
same.
But - and it is a big but - he offers not one word on how, collectively,
the majority might contrive and effect the required remedy when the cultural
majority - yes, along with the "opposing" minority - have for too long been
indoctrinated, as one, in what I view as the culturally, spiritually and
morally regressive and insinuating ways of Political Correctness gone mad.
So his article fails not only because of this crucial in-yer-face omission,
but also because Basset is, as it were, too late by a country mile, being
himself for too long a part of the very problem he now brings - again too late
- to both the majority's already pitiful attention-span, and the
adminstration's too-hard basket.
Nature abhors a vacuum and will always seek to fill it. This applies as
much to a lack of moral substance and determination in a nation's core psyche
and identity as any other you can name.
I agree. The reality is that both major parties have allowed
immigration from a wider range of countries in recent years - and that
has meant that even National found it necessary to select candidates
with Maori, Chinese and Indian backgrounds. The acceptance of
multi-culturalism has highlights the previous lack of acceptance of
Maori culture, and that has been emphasises by the Treaty claim
process - again supported by both Labour and National, that has
highlighted past injustices. Both Basset and Banks are too
self-centred to understand that they are reaping the natural reqard
for past political decisions; it is just that they are set in their
self-centred ways to see that they are not keeping up.
All of which may be so. But what could be more instructive than to witness two
raddled and determinedly pakeha commentators exercising their long-since
decrepit defence mechanisms, a piteous behaviour only >further emphasising and
exposing their own way-up-there-in-lights cultural insecurities?
How sad is that? Not sure who you are referring to however.
You and Rich have been determined to change the topic emphasis. I wonder why.
Post by James Christophers
And as if to pile Pelion on Ossa, I rather doubt whether today's maori 16.7%
percent of the total population occupying 25% of our 120-seat Parliament will
bring them any comfort or reassurance, either.
Seems like an appropriate percentage to me.
Rich80105
2021-01-30 02:20:48 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Fri, 29 Jan 2021 17:16:40 -0800 (PST), James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 28 Jan 2021 18:29:38 -0800 (PST), James Christophers
Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 28 Jan 2021 14:27:19 -0800 (PST), James Christophers
Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 27 Jan 2021 13:00:47 -0800 (PST), James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 25 Jan 2021 20:07:42 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
https://www.bassettbrashandhide.com/post/new-zealand-s-modern-cultural-cringe?fbclid=IwAR3pMZaHFKa9yL7KPDCo-BC9cxTIxivr7MsHRn8-cMK37zzjG05EgGUvI-o
A plea to the bigotted, read the content not the publisher.
"All things derived from Europe except our creature comforts must be
set aside as we are expected to embrace all things Maori. "
That certainly sounds bizarre, but thankfully not at all consistent
with my experience. Most of my family tree goes back to England,
Ireland and Scotland in times when these were definitely not regarded
as being part of "Europe," but I see cultural changes including
greater recognition of our shared heritage now from Asia, Pacific
Islands and elsewhere as well as a return to the closer relationship
with Maori than I suspect we had in the early part of last century,
before the migration of many Maori to the cities.
"Several newspapers are falling into line" - into line with what?
There have been no changes to laws that have triggered any changes in
names used - it is possible that Bassett regrets we no longer use the
term "Mother Country", but this is not clear.
"We are expected to acquiesce." Really? Who by? What statements
support this?
And so we could go on - yet another rambling protest at change from
aging "used to be" New Zealanders who would once have had theor
opinions published in newspapers concerned about an audience - running
their own website is appropriate, don't you think?
The comments cover a wide gamut of opinion and are pleasingly polite.
As they should be, not unexpected.
You picked a tiny number of points from the website post, and ignored
everything else.
The thrust of the article is clear, it is about racism; racism that exists
today in this country.
I prefer to call it self-serving race-based preferment which in this case amounts to cultural exceptionalism.
What is being promoted and practised by exceptionalist activists and condoned by their political fellow-travellers speaks of an exceptionalism and exclusivity claimed as if by Devine Right by those who see themselves as "first nation". Indeed, according to the late Sir Ranganui Walker[1], they will milk this exceptionalism for all it's worth, in fact to the point where the overall cost and disruption caused economically and societally becomes unnaturally and inequitably disproportionate to the minority - and dare I say it, merit - of those who would impose their far- too-often hokum ways on others.
Further, cultural activism by a minority of the kind under discussion will always win out over a taken-for-granted cultural apathy among New Zealand's characteristically fretful majority. So it is, I think, down to the latter to just stop whining fruitlessly to each other, get off their apathetic butts and actually get down to devising whatever is required to stem the unchecked insinuation of a wholly self-serving minority exceptionalism they, the fretful majority, perceive as a threat to their own cultural values. Moreover, if you think or even actually believe this government, or any government come to that, has become your master, then ask yourselves, in a voter-based democracy whose fault is that?
[1] "The Maori will always have his hand in the white man's pocket". He also meant this metaphorically.
https://tinyurl.com/y6oodu7s
https://tinyurl.com/y6h65de7
(The Daily Mail enjoys the dubious distinction of being the sole paper of record catering to the hard-right, exceptionalist bigot and Brexiteer, otherwise known collectively as "gammons".)
Banks is of course from much the same generation as Bassett;
So the two gentlemen are contemporaries. So what? Exactly what other equivalence are you suggesting?
Just that - they were involved in politics at a similar time - and
their adversarial expression of views; their view that their opinions
should be seen as authoritative; in short their arrogance, and you
rightly describe it below their deliberately provocative behaviour.
But there still remains a definable difference between the two. Banks is unembarrassed and uncomplicated in his opinions and his bull-in-a-china-shop ways of expressing them. IOW he is wantonly, nakedly, shamelessly "-ist" to every last fibre of his being as is every bonehead bigot and contrarian you will ever meet. Basset not so, that's if his article is anything to go by. In fact his is more a message, a wakeup call, to the non-maori majority to look to their own cultural interests and preferments, and to be sure adequately to guard and preserve them against what he sees as the undue ingress of minority's cultural (not specifically "racist") customs, mores and values that he perceives can only unduly dilute and subvert or even supplant them.
I agree - being of the same generation does not eliminate differences
- it may have given them a similar acceptance of the mores of their
time, particularly regarding political comment, but they are not the
same.
But - and it is a big but - he offers not one word on how, collectively, the majority might contrive and effect the required remedy when the cultural majority - yes, along with the "opposing" minority - have for too long been indoctrinated, as one, in what I view as the culturally, spiritually and morally regressive and insinuating ways of Political Correctness gone mad.
So his article fails not only because of this crucial in-yer-face omission, but also because Basset is, as it were, too late by a country mile, being himself for too long a part of the very problem he now brings - again too late - to both the majority's already pitiful attention-span, and the adminstration's too-hard basket.
Nature abhors a vacuum and will always seek to fill it. This applies as much to a lack of moral substance and determination in a nation's core psyche and identity as any other you can name.
I agree. The reality is that both major parties have allowed
immigration from a wider range of countries in recent years - and that
has meant that even National found it necessary to select candidates
with Maori, Chinese and Indian backgrounds. The acceptance of
multi-culturalism has highlights the previous lack of acceptance of
Maori culture, and that has been emphasises by the Treaty claim
process - again supported by both Labour and National, that has
highlighted past injustices. Both Basset and Banks are too
self-centred to understand that they are reaping the natural reqard
for past political decisions; it is just that they are set in their
self-centred ways to see that they are not keeping up.
All of which may be so. But what could be more instructive than to witness two raddled and determinedly pakeha commentators exercising their long-since decrepit defence mechanisms, a piteous behaviour only further emphasising and exposing their own way-up-there-in-lights cultural insecurities?
More instructive is the reaction to such blatant offensive words - and
the determination by some to see it stopped - using the power of
public opinion to persuade advertisers to withdraw support from those
organisations that condone such behaviour - see for example:
https://www.webworm.co/p/magictalkcancer
Post by James Christophers
And as if to pile Pelion on Ossa, I rather doubt whether today's maori 16.7% percent of the total population occupying 25% of our 120-seat Parliament will bring them any comfort or reassurance, either.
Tony
2021-01-30 02:49:24 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 29 Jan 2021 17:16:40 -0800 (PST), James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 28 Jan 2021 18:29:38 -0800 (PST), James Christophers
Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 28 Jan 2021 14:27:19 -0800 (PST), James Christophers
Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 27 Jan 2021 13:00:47 -0800 (PST), James Christophers
On Wednesday, 27 January 2021 at 13:11:40 UTC+13, James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 25 Jan 2021 20:07:42 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon
dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Tony
https://www.bassettbrashandhide.com/post/new-zealand-s-modern-cultural-cringe?fbclid=IwAR3pMZaHFKa9yL7KPDCo-BC9cxTIxivr7MsHRn8-cMK37zzjG05EgGUvI-o
A plea to the bigotted, read the content not the publisher.
"All things derived from Europe except our creature comforts
must be
set aside as we are expected to embrace all things Maori. "
That certainly sounds bizarre, but thankfully not at all
consistent
with my experience. Most of my family tree goes back to
England,
Ireland and Scotland in times when these were definitely not
regarded
as being part of "Europe," but I see cultural changes including
greater recognition of our shared heritage now from Asia,
Pacific
Islands and elsewhere as well as a return to the closer
relationship
with Maori than I suspect we had in the early part of last
century,
before the migration of many Maori to the cities.
"Several newspapers are falling into line" - into line with
what?
There have been no changes to laws that have triggered any
changes in
names used - it is possible that Bassett regrets we no longer
use the
term "Mother Country", but this is not clear.
"We are expected to acquiesce." Really? Who by? What statements
support this?
And so we could go on - yet another rambling protest at change
from
aging "used to be" New Zealanders who would once have had theor
opinions published in newspapers concerned about an audience -
running
their own website is appropriate, don't you think?
The comments cover a wide gamut of opinion and are pleasingly
polite.
As they should be, not unexpected.
You picked a tiny number of points from the website post, and
ignored
everything else.
The thrust of the article is clear, it is about racism; racism
that exists
today in this country.
I prefer to call it self-serving race-based preferment which in
this case amounts to cultural exceptionalism.
What is being promoted and practised by exceptionalist activists
and condoned by their political fellow-travellers speaks of an exceptionalism
and exclusivity claimed as if by Devine Right by those who see themselves as
"first nation". Indeed, according to the late Sir Ranganui Walker[1], they will
milk this exceptionalism for all it's worth, in fact to the point where the
overall cost and disruption caused economically and societally becomes
unnaturally and inequitably disproportionate to the minority - and dare I say
it, merit - of those who would impose their far- too-often hokum ways on
others.
Further, cultural activism by a minority of the kind under
discussion will always win out over a taken-for-granted cultural apathy among
New Zealand's characteristically fretful majority. So it is, I think, down to
the latter to just stop whining fruitlessly to each other, get off their
apathetic butts and actually get down to devising whatever is required to stem
the unchecked insinuation of a wholly self-serving minority exceptionalism
they, the fretful majority, perceive as a threat to their own cultural values.
Moreover, if you think or even actually believe this government, or any
government come to that, has become your master, then ask yourselves, in a
voter-based democracy whose fault is that?
[1] "The Maori will always have his hand in the white man's
pocket". He also meant this metaphorically.
For as long as Sir Ranganui Walker's unedifying warning continues to
run, don't be surprised if and when naked racism is given its ugly voice, and
in this instance nationwide to boot. Here it is, made known even as I was
https://tinyurl.com/y6oodu7s
https://tinyurl.com/y6h65de7
(The Daily Mail enjoys the dubious distinction of being the sole
paper of record catering to the hard-right, exceptionalist bigot and Brexiteer,
otherwise known collectively as "gammons".)
Banks is of course from much the same generation as Bassett;
So the two gentlemen are contemporaries. So what? Exactly what other
equivalence are you suggesting?
Just that - they were involved in politics at a similar time - and
their adversarial expression of views; their view that their opinions
should be seen as authoritative; in short their arrogance, and you
rightly describe it below their deliberately provocative behaviour.
But there still remains a definable difference between the two. Banks is
unembarrassed and uncomplicated in his opinions and his bull-in-a-china-shop
ways of expressing them. IOW he is wantonly, nakedly, shamelessly "-ist" to
every last fibre of his being as is every bonehead bigot and contrarian you
will ever meet. Basset not so, that's if his article is anything to go by. In
fact his is more a message, a wakeup call, to the non-maori majority to look to
their own cultural interests and preferments, and to be sure adequately to
guard and preserve them against what he sees as the undue ingress of minority's
cultural (not specifically "racist") customs, mores and values that he
perceives can only unduly dilute and subvert or even supplant them.
I agree - being of the same generation does not eliminate differences
- it may have given them a similar acceptance of the mores of their
time, particularly regarding political comment, but they are not the
same.
But - and it is a big but - he offers not one word on how, collectively,
the majority might contrive and effect the required remedy when the cultural
majority - yes, along with the "opposing" minority - have for too long been
indoctrinated, as one, in what I view as the culturally, spiritually and
morally regressive and insinuating ways of Political Correctness gone mad.
So his article fails not only because of this crucial in-yer-face
omission, but also because Basset is, as it were, too late by a country mile,
being himself for too long a part of the very problem he now brings - again too
late - to both the majority's already pitiful attention-span, and the
adminstration's too-hard basket.
Nature abhors a vacuum and will always seek to fill it. This applies as
much to a lack of moral substance and determination in a nation's core psyche
and identity as any other you can name.
I agree. The reality is that both major parties have allowed
immigration from a wider range of countries in recent years - and that
has meant that even National found it necessary to select candidates
with Maori, Chinese and Indian backgrounds. The acceptance of
multi-culturalism has highlights the previous lack of acceptance of
Maori culture, and that has been emphasises by the Treaty claim
process - again supported by both Labour and National, that has
highlighted past injustices. Both Basset and Banks are too
self-centred to understand that they are reaping the natural reqard
for past political decisions; it is just that they are set in their
self-centred ways to see that they are not keeping up.
All of which may be so. But what could be more instructive than to witness
two raddled and determinedly pakeha commentators exercising their long-since
decrepit defence mechanisms, a piteous behaviour only further emphasising and
exposing their own way-up-there-in-lights cultural insecurities?
More instructive is the reaction to such blatant offensive words - and
the determination by some to see it stopped - using the power of
public opinion to persuade advertisers to withdraw support from those
https://www.webworm.co/p/magictalkcancer
So John Banks is a racist. Who would have thought? He has demonstrated that for
decades.
Well done for your perspicacity.
Post by Rich80105
Post by James Christophers
And as if to pile Pelion on Ossa, I rather doubt whether today's maori 16.7%
percent of the total population occupying 25% of our 120-seat Parliament will
bring them any comfort or reassurance, either.
Rich80105
2021-01-30 04:13:46 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Fri, 29 Jan 2021 20:49:24 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 29 Jan 2021 17:16:40 -0800 (PST), James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 28 Jan 2021 18:29:38 -0800 (PST), James Christophers
Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 28 Jan 2021 14:27:19 -0800 (PST), James Christophers
Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 27 Jan 2021 13:00:47 -0800 (PST), James Christophers
On Wednesday, 27 January 2021 at 13:11:40 UTC+13, James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 25 Jan 2021 20:07:42 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon
dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Tony
https://www.bassettbrashandhide.com/post/new-zealand-s-modern-cultural-cringe?fbclid=IwAR3pMZaHFKa9yL7KPDCo-BC9cxTIxivr7MsHRn8-cMK37zzjG05EgGUvI-o
A plea to the bigotted, read the content not the publisher.
"All things derived from Europe except our creature comforts
must be
set aside as we are expected to embrace all things Maori. "
That certainly sounds bizarre, but thankfully not at all
consistent
with my experience. Most of my family tree goes back to
England,
Ireland and Scotland in times when these were definitely not
regarded
as being part of "Europe," but I see cultural changes including
greater recognition of our shared heritage now from Asia,
Pacific
Islands and elsewhere as well as a return to the closer
relationship
with Maori than I suspect we had in the early part of last
century,
before the migration of many Maori to the cities.
"Several newspapers are falling into line" - into line with
what?
There have been no changes to laws that have triggered any
changes in
names used - it is possible that Bassett regrets we no longer
use the
term "Mother Country", but this is not clear.
"We are expected to acquiesce." Really? Who by? What statements
support this?
And so we could go on - yet another rambling protest at change
from
aging "used to be" New Zealanders who would once have had theor
opinions published in newspapers concerned about an audience -
running
their own website is appropriate, don't you think?
The comments cover a wide gamut of opinion and are pleasingly
polite.
As they should be, not unexpected.
You picked a tiny number of points from the website post, and
ignored
everything else.
The thrust of the article is clear, it is about racism; racism
that exists
today in this country.
I prefer to call it self-serving race-based preferment which in
this case amounts to cultural exceptionalism.
What is being promoted and practised by exceptionalist activists
and condoned by their political fellow-travellers speaks of an exceptionalism
and exclusivity claimed as if by Devine Right by those who see themselves as
"first nation". Indeed, according to the late Sir Ranganui Walker[1], they will
milk this exceptionalism for all it's worth, in fact to the point where the
overall cost and disruption caused economically and societally becomes
unnaturally and inequitably disproportionate to the minority - and dare I say
it, merit - of those who would impose their far- too-often hokum ways on
others.
Further, cultural activism by a minority of the kind under
discussion will always win out over a taken-for-granted cultural apathy among
New Zealand's characteristically fretful majority. So it is, I think, down to
the latter to just stop whining fruitlessly to each other, get off their
apathetic butts and actually get down to devising whatever is required to stem
the unchecked insinuation of a wholly self-serving minority exceptionalism
they, the fretful majority, perceive as a threat to their own cultural values.
Moreover, if you think or even actually believe this government, or any
government come to that, has become your master, then ask yourselves, in a
voter-based democracy whose fault is that?
[1] "The Maori will always have his hand in the white man's
pocket". He also meant this metaphorically.
For as long as Sir Ranganui Walker's unedifying warning continues to
run, don't be surprised if and when naked racism is given its ugly voice, and
in this instance nationwide to boot. Here it is, made known even as I was
https://tinyurl.com/y6oodu7s
https://tinyurl.com/y6h65de7
(The Daily Mail enjoys the dubious distinction of being the sole
paper of record catering to the hard-right, exceptionalist bigot and Brexiteer,
otherwise known collectively as "gammons".)
Banks is of course from much the same generation as Bassett;
So the two gentlemen are contemporaries. So what? Exactly what other
equivalence are you suggesting?
Just that - they were involved in politics at a similar time - and
their adversarial expression of views; their view that their opinions
should be seen as authoritative; in short their arrogance, and you
rightly describe it below their deliberately provocative behaviour.
But there still remains a definable difference between the two. Banks is
unembarrassed and uncomplicated in his opinions and his bull-in-a-china-shop
ways of expressing them. IOW he is wantonly, nakedly, shamelessly "-ist" to
every last fibre of his being as is every bonehead bigot and contrarian you
will ever meet. Basset not so, that's if his article is anything to go by. In
fact his is more a message, a wakeup call, to the non-maori majority to look to
their own cultural interests and preferments, and to be sure adequately to
guard and preserve them against what he sees as the undue ingress of minority's
cultural (not specifically "racist") customs, mores and values that he
perceives can only unduly dilute and subvert or even supplant them.
I agree - being of the same generation does not eliminate differences
- it may have given them a similar acceptance of the mores of their
time, particularly regarding political comment, but they are not the
same.
But - and it is a big but - he offers not one word on how, collectively,
the majority might contrive and effect the required remedy when the cultural
majority - yes, along with the "opposing" minority - have for too long been
indoctrinated, as one, in what I view as the culturally, spiritually and
morally regressive and insinuating ways of Political Correctness gone mad.
So his article fails not only because of this crucial in-yer-face
omission, but also because Basset is, as it were, too late by a country mile,
being himself for too long a part of the very problem he now brings - again too
late - to both the majority's already pitiful attention-span, and the
adminstration's too-hard basket.
Nature abhors a vacuum and will always seek to fill it. This applies as
much to a lack of moral substance and determination in a nation's core psyche
and identity as any other you can name.
I agree. The reality is that both major parties have allowed
immigration from a wider range of countries in recent years - and that
has meant that even National found it necessary to select candidates
with Maori, Chinese and Indian backgrounds. The acceptance of
multi-culturalism has highlights the previous lack of acceptance of
Maori culture, and that has been emphasises by the Treaty claim
process - again supported by both Labour and National, that has
highlighted past injustices. Both Basset and Banks are too
self-centred to understand that they are reaping the natural reqard
for past political decisions; it is just that they are set in their
self-centred ways to see that they are not keeping up.
All of which may be so. But what could be more instructive than to witness
two raddled and determinedly pakeha commentators exercising their long-since
decrepit defence mechanisms, a piteous behaviour only further emphasising and
exposing their own way-up-there-in-lights cultural insecurities?
More instructive is the reaction to such blatant offensive words - and
the determination by some to see it stopped - using the power of
public opinion to persuade advertisers to withdraw support from those
https://www.webworm.co/p/magictalkcancer
So John Banks is a racist. Who would have thought? He has demonstrated that for
decades.
Well done for your perspicacity.
Perhaps you did not read very far into the link. His racism had been
well established in this threadconsistent principles suggest the same
solution may be used for others.
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by James Christophers
And as if to pile Pelion on Ossa, I rather doubt whether today's maori 16.7%
percent of the total population occupying 25% of our 120-seat Parliament will
bring them any comfort or reassurance, either.
Tony
2021-01-30 04:32:41 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 29 Jan 2021 20:49:24 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 29 Jan 2021 17:16:40 -0800 (PST), James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 28 Jan 2021 18:29:38 -0800 (PST), James Christophers
Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 28 Jan 2021 14:27:19 -0800 (PST), James Christophers
Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 27 Jan 2021 13:00:47 -0800 (PST), James Christophers
On Wednesday, 27 January 2021 at 13:11:40 UTC+13, James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 25 Jan 2021 20:07:42 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon
dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Tony
https://www.bassettbrashandhide.com/post/new-zealand-s-modern-cultural-cringe?fbclid=IwAR3pMZaHFKa9yL7KPDCo-BC9cxTIxivr7MsHRn8-cMK37zzjG05EgGUvI-o
A plea to the bigotted, read the content not the publisher.
"All things derived from Europe except our creature comforts
must be
set aside as we are expected to embrace all things Maori. "
That certainly sounds bizarre, but thankfully not at all
consistent
with my experience. Most of my family tree goes back to
England,
Ireland and Scotland in times when these were definitely not
regarded
as being part of "Europe," but I see cultural changes
including
greater recognition of our shared heritage now from Asia,
Pacific
Islands and elsewhere as well as a return to the closer
relationship
with Maori than I suspect we had in the early part of last
century,
before the migration of many Maori to the cities.
"Several newspapers are falling into line" - into line with
what?
There have been no changes to laws that have triggered any
changes in
names used - it is possible that Bassett regrets we no longer
use the
term "Mother Country", but this is not clear.
"We are expected to acquiesce." Really? Who by? What
statements
support this?
And so we could go on - yet another rambling protest at
change
from
aging "used to be" New Zealanders who would once have had
theor
opinions published in newspapers concerned about an audience
-
running
their own website is appropriate, don't you think?
The comments cover a wide gamut of opinion and are pleasingly
polite.
As they should be, not unexpected.
You picked a tiny number of points from the website post, and
ignored
everything else.
The thrust of the article is clear, it is about racism; racism
that exists
today in this country.
I prefer to call it self-serving race-based preferment which in
this case amounts to cultural exceptionalism.
What is being promoted and practised by exceptionalist activists
and condoned by their political fellow-travellers speaks of an
exceptionalism
and exclusivity claimed as if by Devine Right by those who see
themselves as
"first nation". Indeed, according to the late Sir Ranganui
Walker[1], they will
milk this exceptionalism for all it's worth, in fact to the point
where the
overall cost and disruption caused economically and societally
becomes
unnaturally and inequitably disproportionate to the minority -
and dare I say
it, merit - of those who would impose their far- too-often hokum
ways on
others.
Further, cultural activism by a minority of the kind under
discussion will always win out over a taken-for-granted cultural
apathy among
New Zealand's characteristically fretful majority. So it is, I
think, down to
the latter to just stop whining fruitlessly to each other, get
off their
apathetic butts and actually get down to devising whatever is
required to stem
the unchecked insinuation of a wholly self-serving minority
exceptionalism
they, the fretful majority, perceive as a threat to their own
cultural values.
Moreover, if you think or even actually believe this government,
or any
government come to that, has become your master, then ask
yourselves, in a
voter-based democracy whose fault is that?
[1] "The Maori will always have his hand in the white man's
pocket". He also meant this metaphorically.
For as long as Sir Ranganui Walker's unedifying warning continues to
run, don't be surprised if and when naked racism is given its ugly
voice, and
in this instance nationwide to boot. Here it is, made known even
as I was
https://tinyurl.com/y6oodu7s
https://tinyurl.com/y6h65de7
(The Daily Mail enjoys the dubious distinction of being the sole
paper of record catering to the hard-right, exceptionalist bigot
and Brexiteer,
otherwise known collectively as "gammons".)
Banks is of course from much the same generation as Bassett;
So the two gentlemen are contemporaries. So what? Exactly what other
equivalence are you suggesting?
Just that - they were involved in politics at a similar time - and
their adversarial expression of views; their view that their opinions
should be seen as authoritative; in short their arrogance, and you
rightly describe it below their deliberately provocative behaviour.
But there still remains a definable difference between the two. Banks is
unembarrassed and uncomplicated in his opinions and his
bull-in-a-china-shop
ways of expressing them. IOW he is wantonly, nakedly, shamelessly "-ist" to
every last fibre of his being as is every bonehead bigot and contrarian you
will ever meet. Basset not so, that's if his article is anything to go by. In
fact his is more a message, a wakeup call, to the non-maori majority to look to
their own cultural interests and preferments, and to be sure adequately to
guard and preserve them against what he sees as the undue ingress of minority's
cultural (not specifically "racist") customs, mores and values that he
perceives can only unduly dilute and subvert or even supplant them.
I agree - being of the same generation does not eliminate differences
- it may have given them a similar acceptance of the mores of their
time, particularly regarding political comment, but they are not the
same.
But - and it is a big but - he offers not one word on how, collectively,
the majority might contrive and effect the required remedy when the cultural
majority - yes, along with the "opposing" minority - have for too long been
indoctrinated, as one, in what I view as the culturally, spiritually and
morally regressive and insinuating ways of Political Correctness gone mad.
So his article fails not only because of this crucial in-yer-face
omission, but also because Basset is, as it were, too late by a country mile,
being himself for too long a part of the very problem he now brings - again too
late - to both the majority's already pitiful attention-span, and the
adminstration's too-hard basket.
Nature abhors a vacuum and will always seek to fill it. This applies as
much to a lack of moral substance and determination in a nation's core psyche
and identity as any other you can name.
I agree. The reality is that both major parties have allowed
immigration from a wider range of countries in recent years - and that
has meant that even National found it necessary to select candidates
with Maori, Chinese and Indian backgrounds. The acceptance of
multi-culturalism has highlights the previous lack of acceptance of
Maori culture, and that has been emphasises by the Treaty claim
process - again supported by both Labour and National, that has
highlighted past injustices. Both Basset and Banks are too
self-centred to understand that they are reaping the natural reqard
for past political decisions; it is just that they are set in their
self-centred ways to see that they are not keeping up.
All of which may be so. But what could be more instructive than to witness
two raddled and determinedly pakeha commentators exercising their long-since
decrepit defence mechanisms, a piteous behaviour only further emphasising and
exposing their own way-up-there-in-lights cultural insecurities?
More instructive is the reaction to such blatant offensive words - and
the determination by some to see it stopped - using the power of
public opinion to persuade advertisers to withdraw support from those
https://www.webworm.co/p/magictalkcancer
So John Banks is a racist. Who would have thought? He has demonstrated that for
decades.
Well done for your perspicacity.
Perhaps you did not read very far into the link. His racism had been
well established in this threadconsistent principles suggest the same
solution may be used for others.
Perhaps you did not understand what this topic was really about.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by James Christophers
And as if to pile Pelion on Ossa, I rather doubt whether today's maori 16.7%
percent of the total population occupying 25% of our 120-seat Parliament will
bring them any comfort or reassurance, either.
John Bowes
2021-01-30 05:04:08 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 29 Jan 2021 20:49:24 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 29 Jan 2021 17:16:40 -0800 (PST), James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 28 Jan 2021 18:29:38 -0800 (PST), James Christophers
Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 28 Jan 2021 14:27:19 -0800 (PST), James Christophers
Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 27 Jan 2021 13:00:47 -0800 (PST), James Christophers
On Wednesday, 27 January 2021 at 13:11:40 UTC+13, James
Christophers
On Wednesday, 27 January 2021 at 10:29:37 UTC+13, undefined
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 25 Jan 2021 20:07:42 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon
dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Tony
https://www.bassettbrashandhide.com/post/new-zealand-s-modern-cultural-cringe?fbclid=IwAR3pMZaHFKa9yL7KPDCo-BC9cxTIxivr7MsHRn8-cMK37zzjG05EgGUvI-o
A plea to the bigotted, read the content not the publisher.
"All things derived from Europe except our creature comforts
must be
set aside as we are expected to embrace all things Maori. "
That certainly sounds bizarre, but thankfully not at all
consistent
with my experience. Most of my family tree goes back to
England,
Ireland and Scotland in times when these were definitely not
regarded
as being part of "Europe," but I see cultural changes
including
greater recognition of our shared heritage now from Asia,
Pacific
Islands and elsewhere as well as a return to the closer
relationship
with Maori than I suspect we had in the early part of last
century,
before the migration of many Maori to the cities.
"Several newspapers are falling into line" - into line with
what?
There have been no changes to laws that have triggered any
changes in
names used - it is possible that Bassett regrets we no longer
use the
term "Mother Country", but this is not clear.
"We are expected to acquiesce." Really? Who by? What
statements
support this?
And so we could go on - yet another rambling protest at
change
from
aging "used to be" New Zealanders who would once have had
theor
opinions published in newspapers concerned about an audience
-
running
their own website is appropriate, don't you think?
The comments cover a wide gamut of opinion and are pleasingly
polite.
As they should be, not unexpected.
You picked a tiny number of points from the website post, and
ignored
everything else.
The thrust of the article is clear, it is about racism; racism
that exists
today in this country.
I prefer to call it self-serving race-based preferment which in
this case amounts to cultural exceptionalism.
What is being promoted and practised by exceptionalist activists
and condoned by their political fellow-travellers speaks of an
exceptionalism
and exclusivity claimed as if by Devine Right by those who see
themselves as
"first nation". Indeed, according to the late Sir Ranganui
Walker[1], they will
milk this exceptionalism for all it's worth, in fact to the point
where the
overall cost and disruption caused economically and societally
becomes
unnaturally and inequitably disproportionate to the minority -
and dare I say
it, merit - of those who would impose their far- too-often hokum
ways on
others.
Further, cultural activism by a minority of the kind under
discussion will always win out over a taken-for-granted cultural
apathy among
New Zealand's characteristically fretful majority. So it is, I
think, down to
the latter to just stop whining fruitlessly to each other, get
off their
apathetic butts and actually get down to devising whatever is
required to stem
the unchecked insinuation of a wholly self-serving minority
exceptionalism
they, the fretful majority, perceive as a threat to their own
cultural values.
Moreover, if you think or even actually believe this government,
or any
government come to that, has become your master, then ask
yourselves, in a
voter-based democracy whose fault is that?
[1] "The Maori will always have his hand in the white man's
pocket". He also meant this metaphorically.
For as long as Sir Ranganui Walker's unedifying warning continues
to
run, don't be surprised if and when naked racism is given its ugly
voice, and
in this instance nationwide to boot. Here it is, made known even
as I was
https://tinyurl.com/y6oodu7s
https://tinyurl.com/y6h65de7
(The Daily Mail enjoys the dubious distinction of being the sole
paper of record catering to the hard-right, exceptionalist bigot
and Brexiteer,
otherwise known collectively as "gammons".)
Banks is of course from much the same generation as Bassett;
So the two gentlemen are contemporaries. So what? Exactly what other
equivalence are you suggesting?
Just that - they were involved in politics at a similar time - and
their adversarial expression of views; their view that their opinions
should be seen as authoritative; in short their arrogance, and you
rightly describe it below their deliberately provocative behaviour.
But there still remains a definable difference between the two. Banks is
unembarrassed and uncomplicated in his opinions and his
bull-in-a-china-shop
ways of expressing them. IOW he is wantonly, nakedly, shamelessly "-ist" to
every last fibre of his being as is every bonehead bigot and contrarian you
will ever meet. Basset not so, that's if his article is anything to go by. In
fact his is more a message, a wakeup call, to the non-maori majority to
look to
their own cultural interests and preferments, and to be sure adequately to
guard and preserve them against what he sees as the undue ingress of
minority's
cultural (not specifically "racist") customs, mores and values that he
perceives can only unduly dilute and subvert or even supplant them.
I agree - being of the same generation does not eliminate differences
- it may have given them a similar acceptance of the mores of their
time, particularly regarding political comment, but they are not the
same.
But - and it is a big but - he offers not one word on how, collectively,
the majority might contrive and effect the required remedy when the cultural
majority - yes, along with the "opposing" minority - have for too long been
indoctrinated, as one, in what I view as the culturally, spiritually and
morally regressive and insinuating ways of Political Correctness gone mad.
So his article fails not only because of this crucial in-yer-face
omission, but also because Basset is, as it were, too late by a country mile,
being himself for too long a part of the very problem he now brings -
again too
late - to both the majority's already pitiful attention-span, and the
adminstration's too-hard basket.
Nature abhors a vacuum and will always seek to fill it. This applies as
much to a lack of moral substance and determination in a nation's core psyche
and identity as any other you can name.
I agree. The reality is that both major parties have allowed
immigration from a wider range of countries in recent years - and that
has meant that even National found it necessary to select candidates
with Maori, Chinese and Indian backgrounds. The acceptance of
multi-culturalism has highlights the previous lack of acceptance of
Maori culture, and that has been emphasises by the Treaty claim
process - again supported by both Labour and National, that has
highlighted past injustices. Both Basset and Banks are too
self-centred to understand that they are reaping the natural reqard
for past political decisions; it is just that they are set in their
self-centred ways to see that they are not keeping up.
All of which may be so. But what could be more instructive than to witness
two raddled and determinedly pakeha commentators exercising their long-since
decrepit defence mechanisms, a piteous behaviour only further emphasising and
exposing their own way-up-there-in-lights cultural insecurities?
More instructive is the reaction to such blatant offensive words - and
the determination by some to see it stopped - using the power of
public opinion to persuade advertisers to withdraw support from those
https://www.webworm.co/p/magictalkcancer
So John Banks is a racist. Who would have thought? He has demonstrated that for
decades.
Well done for your perspicacity.
Perhaps you did not read very far into the link. His racism had been
well established in this threadconsistent principles suggest the same
solution may be used for others.
Perhaps you did not understand what this topic was really about.
More to the point: Does Rich EVER understand a topic?
Rich80105
2021-01-30 06:57:38 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Fri, 29 Jan 2021 22:32:41 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 29 Jan 2021 20:49:24 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 29 Jan 2021 17:16:40 -0800 (PST), James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 28 Jan 2021 18:29:38 -0800 (PST), James Christophers
Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 28 Jan 2021 14:27:19 -0800 (PST), James Christophers
Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 27 Jan 2021 13:00:47 -0800 (PST), James Christophers
On Wednesday, 27 January 2021 at 13:11:40 UTC+13, James
Christophers
On Wednesday, 27 January 2021 at 10:29:37 UTC+13, undefined
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 25 Jan 2021 20:07:42 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon
dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Tony
https://www.bassettbrashandhide.com/post/new-zealand-s-modern-cultural-cringe?fbclid=IwAR3pMZaHFKa9yL7KPDCo-BC9cxTIxivr7MsHRn8-cMK37zzjG05EgGUvI-o
A plea to the bigotted, read the content not the publisher.
"All things derived from Europe except our creature comforts
must be
set aside as we are expected to embrace all things Maori. "
That certainly sounds bizarre, but thankfully not at all
consistent
with my experience. Most of my family tree goes back to
England,
Ireland and Scotland in times when these were definitely not
regarded
as being part of "Europe," but I see cultural changes
including
greater recognition of our shared heritage now from Asia,
Pacific
Islands and elsewhere as well as a return to the closer
relationship
with Maori than I suspect we had in the early part of last
century,
before the migration of many Maori to the cities.
"Several newspapers are falling into line" - into line with
what?
There have been no changes to laws that have triggered any
changes in
names used - it is possible that Bassett regrets we no longer
use the
term "Mother Country", but this is not clear.
"We are expected to acquiesce." Really? Who by? What
statements
support this?
And so we could go on - yet another rambling protest at
change
from
aging "used to be" New Zealanders who would once have had
theor
opinions published in newspapers concerned about an audience
-
running
their own website is appropriate, don't you think?
The comments cover a wide gamut of opinion and are pleasingly
polite.
As they should be, not unexpected.
You picked a tiny number of points from the website post, and
ignored
everything else.
The thrust of the article is clear, it is about racism; racism
that exists
today in this country.
I prefer to call it self-serving race-based preferment which in
this case amounts to cultural exceptionalism.
What is being promoted and practised by exceptionalist activists
and condoned by their political fellow-travellers speaks of an
exceptionalism
and exclusivity claimed as if by Devine Right by those who see
themselves as
"first nation". Indeed, according to the late Sir Ranganui
Walker[1], they will
milk this exceptionalism for all it's worth, in fact to the point
where the
overall cost and disruption caused economically and societally
becomes
unnaturally and inequitably disproportionate to the minority -
and dare I say
it, merit - of those who would impose their far- too-often hokum
ways on
others.
Further, cultural activism by a minority of the kind under
discussion will always win out over a taken-for-granted cultural
apathy among
New Zealand's characteristically fretful majority. So it is, I
think, down to
the latter to just stop whining fruitlessly to each other, get
off their
apathetic butts and actually get down to devising whatever is
required to stem
the unchecked insinuation of a wholly self-serving minority
exceptionalism
they, the fretful majority, perceive as a threat to their own
cultural values.
Moreover, if you think or even actually believe this government,
or any
government come to that, has become your master, then ask
yourselves, in a
voter-based democracy whose fault is that?
[1] "The Maori will always have his hand in the white man's
pocket". He also meant this metaphorically.
For as long as Sir Ranganui Walker's unedifying warning continues
to
run, don't be surprised if and when naked racism is given its ugly
voice, and
in this instance nationwide to boot. Here it is, made known even
as I was
https://tinyurl.com/y6oodu7s
https://tinyurl.com/y6h65de7
(The Daily Mail enjoys the dubious distinction of being the sole
paper of record catering to the hard-right, exceptionalist bigot
and Brexiteer,
otherwise known collectively as "gammons".)
Banks is of course from much the same generation as Bassett;
So the two gentlemen are contemporaries. So what? Exactly what other
equivalence are you suggesting?
Just that - they were involved in politics at a similar time - and
their adversarial expression of views; their view that their opinions
should be seen as authoritative; in short their arrogance, and you
rightly describe it below their deliberately provocative behaviour.
But there still remains a definable difference between the two. Banks is
unembarrassed and uncomplicated in his opinions and his
bull-in-a-china-shop
ways of expressing them. IOW he is wantonly, nakedly, shamelessly "-ist" to
every last fibre of his being as is every bonehead bigot and contrarian you
will ever meet. Basset not so, that's if his article is anything to go by. In
fact his is more a message, a wakeup call, to the non-maori majority to look to
their own cultural interests and preferments, and to be sure adequately to
guard and preserve them against what he sees as the undue ingress of minority's
cultural (not specifically "racist") customs, mores and values that he
perceives can only unduly dilute and subvert or even supplant them.
I agree - being of the same generation does not eliminate differences
- it may have given them a similar acceptance of the mores of their
time, particularly regarding political comment, but they are not the
same.
But - and it is a big but - he offers not one word on how, collectively,
the majority might contrive and effect the required remedy when the cultural
majority - yes, along with the "opposing" minority - have for too long been
indoctrinated, as one, in what I view as the culturally, spiritually and
morally regressive and insinuating ways of Political Correctness gone mad.
So his article fails not only because of this crucial in-yer-face
omission, but also because Basset is, as it were, too late by a country mile,
being himself for too long a part of the very problem he now brings - again too
late - to both the majority's already pitiful attention-span, and the
adminstration's too-hard basket.
Nature abhors a vacuum and will always seek to fill it. This applies as
much to a lack of moral substance and determination in a nation's core psyche
and identity as any other you can name.
I agree. The reality is that both major parties have allowed
immigration from a wider range of countries in recent years - and that
has meant that even National found it necessary to select candidates
with Maori, Chinese and Indian backgrounds. The acceptance of
multi-culturalism has highlights the previous lack of acceptance of
Maori culture, and that has been emphasises by the Treaty claim
process - again supported by both Labour and National, that has
highlighted past injustices. Both Basset and Banks are too
self-centred to understand that they are reaping the natural reqard
for past political decisions; it is just that they are set in their
self-centred ways to see that they are not keeping up.
All of which may be so. But what could be more instructive than to witness
two raddled and determinedly pakeha commentators exercising their long-since
decrepit defence mechanisms, a piteous behaviour only further emphasising and
exposing their own way-up-there-in-lights cultural insecurities?
More instructive is the reaction to such blatant offensive words - and
the determination by some to see it stopped - using the power of
public opinion to persuade advertisers to withdraw support from those
https://www.webworm.co/p/magictalkcancer
So John Banks is a racist. Who would have thought? He has demonstrated that for
decades.
Well done for your perspicacity.
Perhaps you did not read very far into the link. His racism had been
well established in this threadconsistent principles suggest the same
solution may be used for others.
Perhaps you did not understand what this topic was really about.
It is there in the Subject, Tony: "This Racist Country"
It was never about one individual, but about views expressed on a blog
which took a fairly intolerant view of Maori and the use of the Maori
language - you started the thread with the subject and the article
which indicated you felt that at least one person was racist.

As is usual there have been a number of other posters - that is the
purpose of usenet after all - including James Christopher, me,
"undefined", and other posts by you; but all on the broad theme of
"This Racist Country."

If you don't want discussion, I suggest you either give up posting to
or reading nz.general, or develop a little more tolerance - racism
being just one example of intolerance . . .
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by James Christophers
And as if to pile Pelion on Ossa, I rather doubt whether today's maori 16.7%
percent of the total population occupying 25% of our 120-seat Parliament will
bring them any comfort or reassurance, either.
Tony
2021-01-30 19:12:03 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 29 Jan 2021 22:32:41 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 29 Jan 2021 20:49:24 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 29 Jan 2021 17:16:40 -0800 (PST), James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 28 Jan 2021 18:29:38 -0800 (PST), James Christophers
Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 28 Jan 2021 14:27:19 -0800 (PST), James Christophers
Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 27 Jan 2021 13:00:47 -0800 (PST), James Christophers
On Wednesday, 27 January 2021 at 13:11:40 UTC+13, James
Christophers
On Wednesday, 27 January 2021 at 10:29:37 UTC+13, undefined
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 25 Jan 2021 20:07:42 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at
orcon
dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Tony
https://www.bassettbrashandhide.com/post/new-zealand-s-modern-cultural-cringe?fbclid=IwAR3pMZaHFKa9yL7KPDCo-BC9cxTIxivr7MsHRn8-cMK37zzjG05EgGUvI-o
A plea to the bigotted, read the content not the
publisher.
"All things derived from Europe except our creature
comforts
must be
set aside as we are expected to embrace all things Maori. "
That certainly sounds bizarre, but thankfully not at all
consistent
with my experience. Most of my family tree goes back to
England,
Ireland and Scotland in times when these were definitely
not
regarded
as being part of "Europe," but I see cultural changes
including
greater recognition of our shared heritage now from Asia,
Pacific
Islands and elsewhere as well as a return to the closer
relationship
with Maori than I suspect we had in the early part of last
century,
before the migration of many Maori to the cities.
"Several newspapers are falling into line" - into line with
what?
There have been no changes to laws that have triggered any
changes in
names used - it is possible that Bassett regrets we no
longer
use the
term "Mother Country", but this is not clear.
"We are expected to acquiesce." Really? Who by? What
statements
support this?
And so we could go on - yet another rambling protest at
change
from
aging "used to be" New Zealanders who would once have had
theor
opinions published in newspapers concerned about an
audience
-
running
their own website is appropriate, don't you think?
The comments cover a wide gamut of opinion and are
pleasingly
polite.
As they should be, not unexpected.
You picked a tiny number of points from the website post,
and
ignored
everything else.
The thrust of the article is clear, it is about racism;
racism
that exists
today in this country.
I prefer to call it self-serving race-based preferment which
in
this case amounts to cultural exceptionalism.
What is being promoted and practised by exceptionalist
activists
and condoned by their political fellow-travellers speaks of an
exceptionalism
and exclusivity claimed as if by Devine Right by those who see
themselves as
"first nation". Indeed, according to the late Sir Ranganui
Walker[1], they will
milk this exceptionalism for all it's worth, in fact to the
point
where the
overall cost and disruption caused economically and societally
becomes
unnaturally and inequitably disproportionate to the minority -
and dare I say
it, merit - of those who would impose their far- too-often
hokum
ways on
others.
Further, cultural activism by a minority of the kind under
discussion will always win out over a taken-for-granted
cultural
apathy among
New Zealand's characteristically fretful majority. So it is, I
think, down to
the latter to just stop whining fruitlessly to each other, get
off their
apathetic butts and actually get down to devising whatever is
required to stem
the unchecked insinuation of a wholly self-serving minority
exceptionalism
they, the fretful majority, perceive as a threat to their own
cultural values.
Moreover, if you think or even actually believe this
government,
or any
government come to that, has become your master, then ask
yourselves, in a
voter-based democracy whose fault is that?
[1] "The Maori will always have his hand in the white man's
pocket". He also meant this metaphorically.
For as long as Sir Ranganui Walker's unedifying warning continues
to
run, don't be surprised if and when naked racism is given its
ugly
voice, and
in this instance nationwide to boot. Here it is, made known even
as I was
https://tinyurl.com/y6oodu7s
https://tinyurl.com/y6h65de7
(The Daily Mail enjoys the dubious distinction of being the sole
paper of record catering to the hard-right, exceptionalist bigot
and Brexiteer,
otherwise known collectively as "gammons".)
Banks is of course from much the same generation as Bassett;
So the two gentlemen are contemporaries. So what? Exactly what other
equivalence are you suggesting?
Just that - they were involved in politics at a similar time - and
their adversarial expression of views; their view that their opinions
should be seen as authoritative; in short their arrogance, and you
rightly describe it below their deliberately provocative behaviour.
But there still remains a definable difference between the two. Banks is
unembarrassed and uncomplicated in his opinions and his
bull-in-a-china-shop
ways of expressing them. IOW he is wantonly, nakedly, shamelessly
"-ist"
to
every last fibre of his being as is every bonehead bigot and
contrarian
you
will ever meet. Basset not so, that's if his article is anything to go by. In
fact his is more a message, a wakeup call, to the non-maori majority
to
look to
their own cultural interests and preferments, and to be sure
adequately
to
guard and preserve them against what he sees as the undue ingress of
minority's
cultural (not specifically "racist") customs, mores and values that he
perceives can only unduly dilute and subvert or even supplant them.
I agree - being of the same generation does not eliminate differences
- it may have given them a similar acceptance of the mores of their
time, particularly regarding political comment, but they are not the
same.
But - and it is a big but - he offers not one word on how, collectively,
the majority might contrive and effect the required remedy when the cultural
majority - yes, along with the "opposing" minority - have for too long been
indoctrinated, as one, in what I view as the culturally, spiritually and
morally regressive and insinuating ways of Political Correctness gone mad.
So his article fails not only because of this crucial in-yer-face
omission, but also because Basset is, as it were, too late by a
country
mile,
being himself for too long a part of the very problem he now brings -
again too
late - to both the majority's already pitiful attention-span, and the
adminstration's too-hard basket.
Nature abhors a vacuum and will always seek to fill it. This applies as
much to a lack of moral substance and determination in a nation's core psyche
and identity as any other you can name.
I agree. The reality is that both major parties have allowed
immigration from a wider range of countries in recent years - and that
has meant that even National found it necessary to select candidates
with Maori, Chinese and Indian backgrounds. The acceptance of
multi-culturalism has highlights the previous lack of acceptance of
Maori culture, and that has been emphasises by the Treaty claim
process - again supported by both Labour and National, that has
highlighted past injustices. Both Basset and Banks are too
self-centred to understand that they are reaping the natural reqard
for past political decisions; it is just that they are set in their
self-centred ways to see that they are not keeping up.
All of which may be so. But what could be more instructive than to witness
two raddled and determinedly pakeha commentators exercising their long-since
decrepit defence mechanisms, a piteous behaviour only further emphasising and
exposing their own way-up-there-in-lights cultural insecurities?
More instructive is the reaction to such blatant offensive words - and
the determination by some to see it stopped - using the power of
public opinion to persuade advertisers to withdraw support from those
https://www.webworm.co/p/magictalkcancer
So John Banks is a racist. Who would have thought? He has demonstrated that for
decades.
Well done for your perspicacity.
Perhaps you did not read very far into the link. His racism had been
well established in this threadconsistent principles suggest the same
solution may be used for others.
Perhaps you did not understand what this topic was really about.
It is there in the Subject, Tony: "This Racist Country"
It was never about one individual
IK didn't say ot was.
Post by Rich80105
, but about views expressed on a blog
which took a fairly intolerant view of Maori and the use of the Maori
language - you started the thread with the subject and the article
which indicated you felt that at least one person was racist.
As is usual there have been a number of other posters - that is the
purpose of usenet after all - including James Christopher, me,
"undefined", and other posts by you; but all on the broad theme of
"This Racist Country."
The original post was about Maori racism and you know it.
Post by Rich80105
If you don't want discussion, I suggest you either give up posting to
or reading nz.general, or develop a little more tolerance - racism
being just one example of intolerance . . .
Don't be so pathetic.
This thread was about racism by Maori and specifically so and you know it.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by James Christophers
And as if to pile Pelion on Ossa, I rather doubt whether today's maori 16.7%
percent of the total population occupying 25% of our 120-seat Parliament will
bring them any comfort or reassurance, either.
Tony
2021-01-30 19:19:03 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 29 Jan 2021 22:32:41 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 29 Jan 2021 20:49:24 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 29 Jan 2021 17:16:40 -0800 (PST), James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 28 Jan 2021 18:29:38 -0800 (PST), James Christophers
Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 28 Jan 2021 14:27:19 -0800 (PST), James Christophers
Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 27 Jan 2021 13:00:47 -0800 (PST), James Christophers
On Wednesday, 27 January 2021 at 13:11:40 UTC+13, James
Christophers
On Wednesday, 27 January 2021 at 10:29:37 UTC+13, undefined
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 25 Jan 2021 20:07:42 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at
orcon
dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Tony
https://www.bassettbrashandhide.com/post/new-zealand-s-modern-cultural-cringe?fbclid=IwAR3pMZaHFKa9yL7KPDCo-BC9cxTIxivr7MsHRn8-cMK37zzjG05EgGUvI-o
A plea to the bigotted, read the content not the
publisher.
"All things derived from Europe except our creature
comforts
must be
set aside as we are expected to embrace all things Maori.
"
That certainly sounds bizarre, but thankfully not at all
consistent
with my experience. Most of my family tree goes back to
England,
Ireland and Scotland in times when these were definitely
not
regarded
as being part of "Europe," but I see cultural changes
including
greater recognition of our shared heritage now from Asia,
Pacific
Islands and elsewhere as well as a return to the closer
relationship
with Maori than I suspect we had in the early part of last
century,
before the migration of many Maori to the cities.
"Several newspapers are falling into line" - into line
with
what?
There have been no changes to laws that have triggered any
changes in
names used - it is possible that Bassett regrets we no
longer
use the
term "Mother Country", but this is not clear.
"We are expected to acquiesce." Really? Who by? What
statements
support this?
And so we could go on - yet another rambling protest at
change
from
aging "used to be" New Zealanders who would once have had
theor
opinions published in newspapers concerned about an
audience
-
running
their own website is appropriate, don't you think?
The comments cover a wide gamut of opinion and are
pleasingly
polite.
As they should be, not unexpected.
You picked a tiny number of points from the website post,
and
ignored
everything else.
The thrust of the article is clear, it is about racism;
racism
that exists
today in this country.
I prefer to call it self-serving race-based preferment which
in
this case amounts to cultural exceptionalism.
What is being promoted and practised by exceptionalist
activists
and condoned by their political fellow-travellers speaks of an
exceptionalism
and exclusivity claimed as if by Devine Right by those who see
themselves as
"first nation". Indeed, according to the late Sir Ranganui
Walker[1], they will
milk this exceptionalism for all it's worth, in fact to the
point
where the
overall cost and disruption caused economically and societally
becomes
unnaturally and inequitably disproportionate to the minority -
and dare I say
it, merit - of those who would impose their far- too-often
hokum
ways on
others.
Further, cultural activism by a minority of the kind under
discussion will always win out over a taken-for-granted
cultural
apathy among
New Zealand's characteristically fretful majority. So it is, I
think, down to
the latter to just stop whining fruitlessly to each other, get
off their
apathetic butts and actually get down to devising whatever is
required to stem
the unchecked insinuation of a wholly self-serving minority
exceptionalism
they, the fretful majority, perceive as a threat to their own
cultural values.
Moreover, if you think or even actually believe this
government,
or any
government come to that, has become your master, then ask
yourselves, in a
voter-based democracy whose fault is that?
[1] "The Maori will always have his hand in the white man's
pocket". He also meant this metaphorically.
For as long as Sir Ranganui Walker's unedifying warning
continues
to
run, don't be surprised if and when naked racism is given its
ugly
voice, and
in this instance nationwide to boot. Here it is, made known
even
as I was
https://tinyurl.com/y6oodu7s
https://tinyurl.com/y6h65de7
(The Daily Mail enjoys the dubious distinction of being the
sole
paper of record catering to the hard-right, exceptionalist
bigot
and Brexiteer,
otherwise known collectively as "gammons".)
Banks is of course from much the same generation as Bassett;
So the two gentlemen are contemporaries. So what? Exactly what other
equivalence are you suggesting?
Just that - they were involved in politics at a similar time - and
their adversarial expression of views; their view that their opinions
should be seen as authoritative; in short their arrogance, and you
rightly describe it below their deliberately provocative behaviour.
But there still remains a definable difference between the two. Banks is
unembarrassed and uncomplicated in his opinions and his
bull-in-a-china-shop
ways of expressing them. IOW he is wantonly, nakedly, shamelessly
"-ist"
to
every last fibre of his being as is every bonehead bigot and
contrarian
you
will ever meet. Basset not so, that's if his article is anything to
go
by. In
fact his is more a message, a wakeup call, to the non-maori majority
to
look to
their own cultural interests and preferments, and to be sure
adequately
to
guard and preserve them against what he sees as the undue ingress of
minority's
cultural (not specifically "racist") customs, mores and values that he
perceives can only unduly dilute and subvert or even supplant them.
I agree - being of the same generation does not eliminate differences
- it may have given them a similar acceptance of the mores of their
time, particularly regarding political comment, but they are not the
same.
But - and it is a big but - he offers not one word on how, collectively,
the majority might contrive and effect the required remedy when the
cultural
majority - yes, along with the "opposing" minority - have for too
long
been
indoctrinated, as one, in what I view as the culturally, spiritually and
morally regressive and insinuating ways of Political Correctness gone mad.
So his article fails not only because of this crucial in-yer-face
omission, but also because Basset is, as it were, too late by a
country
mile,
being himself for too long a part of the very problem he now brings -
again too
late - to both the majority's already pitiful attention-span, and the
adminstration's too-hard basket.
Nature abhors a vacuum and will always seek to fill it. This applies as
much to a lack of moral substance and determination in a nation's
core
psyche
and identity as any other you can name.
I agree. The reality is that both major parties have allowed
immigration from a wider range of countries in recent years - and that
has meant that even National found it necessary to select candidates
with Maori, Chinese and Indian backgrounds. The acceptance of
multi-culturalism has highlights the previous lack of acceptance of
Maori culture, and that has been emphasises by the Treaty claim
process - again supported by both Labour and National, that has
highlighted past injustices. Both Basset and Banks are too
self-centred to understand that they are reaping the natural reqard
for past political decisions; it is just that they are set in their
self-centred ways to see that they are not keeping up.
All of which may be so. But what could be more instructive than to witness
two raddled and determinedly pakeha commentators exercising their long-since
decrepit defence mechanisms, a piteous behaviour only further
emphasising
and
exposing their own way-up-there-in-lights cultural insecurities?
More instructive is the reaction to such blatant offensive words - and
the determination by some to see it stopped - using the power of
public opinion to persuade advertisers to withdraw support from those
https://www.webworm.co/p/magictalkcancer
So John Banks is a racist. Who would have thought? He has demonstrated
that
for
decades.
Well done for your perspicacity.
Perhaps you did not read very far into the link. His racism had been
well established in this threadconsistent principles suggest the same
solution may be used for others.
Perhaps you did not understand what this topic was really about.
It is there in the Subject, Tony: "This Racist Country"
You left out the most important bit, the question mark, which makes difference
of magnitude. Did you do that deliberately?
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
It was never about one individual
Correction - I didn't say it was.
Post by Tony
IK didn't say ot was.
Post by Rich80105
, but about views expressed on a blog
which took a fairly intolerant view of Maori and the use of the Maori
language - you started the thread with the subject and the article
which indicated you felt that at least one person was racist.
As is usual there have been a number of other posters - that is the
purpose of usenet after all - including James Christopher, me,
"undefined", and other posts by you; but all on the broad theme of
"This Racist Country."
The original post was about Maori racism and you know it.
Post by Rich80105
If you don't want discussion, I suggest you either give up posting to
or reading nz.general, or develop a little more tolerance - racism
being just one example of intolerance . . .
Don't be so pathetic.
This thread was about racism by Maori and specifically so and you know it.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by James Christophers
And as if to pile Pelion on Ossa, I rather doubt whether today's maori 16.7%
percent of the total population occupying 25% of our 120-seat Parliament will
bring them any comfort or reassurance, either.
Rich80105
2021-01-30 20:00:39 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Sat, 30 Jan 2021 13:12:03 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 29 Jan 2021 22:32:41 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 29 Jan 2021 20:49:24 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 29 Jan 2021 17:16:40 -0800 (PST), James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 28 Jan 2021 18:29:38 -0800 (PST), James Christophers
Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 28 Jan 2021 14:27:19 -0800 (PST), James Christophers
Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 27 Jan 2021 13:00:47 -0800 (PST), James Christophers
On Wednesday, 27 January 2021 at 13:11:40 UTC+13, James
Christophers
On Wednesday, 27 January 2021 at 10:29:37 UTC+13, undefined
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 25 Jan 2021 20:07:42 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at
orcon
dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Tony
https://www.bassettbrashandhide.com/post/new-zealand-s-modern-cultural-cringe?fbclid=IwAR3pMZaHFKa9yL7KPDCo-BC9cxTIxivr7MsHRn8-cMK37zzjG05EgGUvI-o
A plea to the bigotted, read the content not the
publisher.
"All things derived from Europe except our creature
comforts
must be
set aside as we are expected to embrace all things Maori. "
That certainly sounds bizarre, but thankfully not at all
consistent
with my experience. Most of my family tree goes back to
England,
Ireland and Scotland in times when these were definitely
not
regarded
as being part of "Europe," but I see cultural changes
including
greater recognition of our shared heritage now from Asia,
Pacific
Islands and elsewhere as well as a return to the closer
relationship
with Maori than I suspect we had in the early part of last
century,
before the migration of many Maori to the cities.
"Several newspapers are falling into line" - into line with
what?
There have been no changes to laws that have triggered any
changes in
names used - it is possible that Bassett regrets we no
longer
use the
term "Mother Country", but this is not clear.
"We are expected to acquiesce." Really? Who by? What
statements
support this?
And so we could go on - yet another rambling protest at
change
from
aging "used to be" New Zealanders who would once have had
theor
opinions published in newspapers concerned about an
audience
-
running
their own website is appropriate, don't you think?
The comments cover a wide gamut of opinion and are
pleasingly
polite.
As they should be, not unexpected.
You picked a tiny number of points from the website post,
and
ignored
everything else.
The thrust of the article is clear, it is about racism;
racism
that exists
today in this country.
I prefer to call it self-serving race-based preferment which
in
this case amounts to cultural exceptionalism.
What is being promoted and practised by exceptionalist
activists
and condoned by their political fellow-travellers speaks of an
exceptionalism
and exclusivity claimed as if by Devine Right by those who see
themselves as
"first nation". Indeed, according to the late Sir Ranganui
Walker[1], they will
milk this exceptionalism for all it's worth, in fact to the
point
where the
overall cost and disruption caused economically and societally
becomes
unnaturally and inequitably disproportionate to the minority -
and dare I say
it, merit - of those who would impose their far- too-often
hokum
ways on
others.
Further, cultural activism by a minority of the kind under
discussion will always win out over a taken-for-granted
cultural
apathy among
New Zealand's characteristically fretful majority. So it is, I
think, down to
the latter to just stop whining fruitlessly to each other, get
off their
apathetic butts and actually get down to devising whatever is
required to stem
the unchecked insinuation of a wholly self-serving minority
exceptionalism
they, the fretful majority, perceive as a threat to their own
cultural values.
Moreover, if you think or even actually believe this
government,
or any
government come to that, has become your master, then ask
yourselves, in a
voter-based democracy whose fault is that?
[1] "The Maori will always have his hand in the white man's
pocket". He also meant this metaphorically.
For as long as Sir Ranganui Walker's unedifying warning
continues
to
run, don't be surprised if and when naked racism is given its
ugly
voice, and
in this instance nationwide to boot. Here it is, made known even
as I was
https://tinyurl.com/y6oodu7s
https://tinyurl.com/y6h65de7
(The Daily Mail enjoys the dubious distinction of being the sole
paper of record catering to the hard-right, exceptionalist bigot
and Brexiteer,
otherwise known collectively as "gammons".)
Banks is of course from much the same generation as Bassett;
So the two gentlemen are contemporaries. So what? Exactly what other
equivalence are you suggesting?
Just that - they were involved in politics at a similar time - and
their adversarial expression of views; their view that their opinions
should be seen as authoritative; in short their arrogance, and you
rightly describe it below their deliberately provocative behaviour.
But there still remains a definable difference between the two. Banks is
unembarrassed and uncomplicated in his opinions and his
bull-in-a-china-shop
ways of expressing them. IOW he is wantonly, nakedly, shamelessly
"-ist"
to
every last fibre of his being as is every bonehead bigot and
contrarian
you
will ever meet. Basset not so, that's if his article is anything to go
by. In
fact his is more a message, a wakeup call, to the non-maori majority
to
look to
their own cultural interests and preferments, and to be sure
adequately
to
guard and preserve them against what he sees as the undue ingress of
minority's
cultural (not specifically "racist") customs, mores and values that he
perceives can only unduly dilute and subvert or even supplant them.
I agree - being of the same generation does not eliminate differences
- it may have given them a similar acceptance of the mores of their
time, particularly regarding political comment, but they are not the
same.
But - and it is a big but - he offers not one word on how, collectively,
the majority might contrive and effect the required remedy when the
cultural
majority - yes, along with the "opposing" minority - have for too long been
indoctrinated, as one, in what I view as the culturally, spiritually and
morally regressive and insinuating ways of Political Correctness gone mad.
So his article fails not only because of this crucial in-yer-face
omission, but also because Basset is, as it were, too late by a
country
mile,
being himself for too long a part of the very problem he now brings -
again too
late - to both the majority's already pitiful attention-span, and the
adminstration's too-hard basket.
Nature abhors a vacuum and will always seek to fill it. This applies as
much to a lack of moral substance and determination in a nation's core
psyche
and identity as any other you can name.
I agree. The reality is that both major parties have allowed
immigration from a wider range of countries in recent years - and that
has meant that even National found it necessary to select candidates
with Maori, Chinese and Indian backgrounds. The acceptance of
multi-culturalism has highlights the previous lack of acceptance of
Maori culture, and that has been emphasises by the Treaty claim
process - again supported by both Labour and National, that has
highlighted past injustices. Both Basset and Banks are too
self-centred to understand that they are reaping the natural reqard
for past political decisions; it is just that they are set in their
self-centred ways to see that they are not keeping up.
All of which may be so. But what could be more instructive than to witness
two raddled and determinedly pakeha commentators exercising their long-since
decrepit defence mechanisms, a piteous behaviour only further emphasising and
exposing their own way-up-there-in-lights cultural insecurities?
More instructive is the reaction to such blatant offensive words - and
the determination by some to see it stopped - using the power of
public opinion to persuade advertisers to withdraw support from those
https://www.webworm.co/p/magictalkcancer
So John Banks is a racist. Who would have thought? He has demonstrated that for
decades.
Well done for your perspicacity.
Perhaps you did not read very far into the link. His racism had been
well established in this threadconsistent principles suggest the same
solution may be used for others.
Perhaps you did not understand what this topic was really about.
It is there in the Subject, Tony: "This Racist Country"
It was never about one individual
IK didn't say ot was.
Post by Rich80105
, but about views expressed on a blog
which took a fairly intolerant view of Maori and the use of the Maori
language - you started the thread with the subject and the article
which indicated you felt that at least one person was racist.
As is usual there have been a number of other posters - that is the
purpose of usenet after all - including James Christopher, me,
"undefined", and other posts by you; but all on the broad theme of
"This Racist Country."
The original post was about Maori racism and you know it.
Really? What racism did you see in the article, Tony?
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
If you don't want discussion, I suggest you either give up posting to
or reading nz.general, or develop a little more tolerance - racism
being just one example of intolerance . . .
Don't be so pathetic.
This thread was about racism by Maori and specifically so and you know it.
As you have pointed out, the subject was about whether New Zealand is
a racist country. Our country has many people living here, including
the author of the article you referred to, who are not Maori. What
racism by Maori did you see?
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by James Christophers
And as if to pile Pelion on Ossa, I rather doubt whether today's maori 16.7%
percent of the total population occupying 25% of our 120-seat Parliament will
bring them any comfort or reassurance, either.
Tony
2021-01-31 08:30:48 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 30 Jan 2021 13:12:03 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 29 Jan 2021 22:32:41 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 29 Jan 2021 20:49:24 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 29 Jan 2021 17:16:40 -0800 (PST), James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 28 Jan 2021 18:29:38 -0800 (PST), James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 28 Jan 2021 14:27:19 -0800 (PST), James Christophers
Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 27 Jan 2021 13:00:47 -0800 (PST), James Christophers
On Wednesday, 27 January 2021 at 13:11:40 UTC+13, James
Christophers
On Wednesday, 27 January 2021 at 10:29:37 UTC+13, undefined
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 25 Jan 2021 20:07:42 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at
orcon
dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Tony
https://www.bassettbrashandhide.com/post/new-zealand-s-modern-cultural-cringe?fbclid=IwAR3pMZaHFKa9yL7KPDCo-BC9cxTIxivr7MsHRn8-cMK37zzjG05EgGUvI-o
A plea to the bigotted, read the content not the
publisher.
"All things derived from Europe except our creature
comforts
must be
set aside as we are expected to embrace all things Maori.
"
That certainly sounds bizarre, but thankfully not at all
consistent
with my experience. Most of my family tree goes back to
England,
Ireland and Scotland in times when these were definitely
not
regarded
as being part of "Europe," but I see cultural changes
including
greater recognition of our shared heritage now from Asia,
Pacific
Islands and elsewhere as well as a return to the closer
relationship
with Maori than I suspect we had in the early part of
last
century,
before the migration of many Maori to the cities.
"Several newspapers are falling into line" - into line
with
what?
There have been no changes to laws that have triggered
any
changes in
names used - it is possible that Bassett regrets we no
longer
use the
term "Mother Country", but this is not clear.
"We are expected to acquiesce." Really? Who by? What
statements
support this?
And so we could go on - yet another rambling protest at
change
from
aging "used to be" New Zealanders who would once have had
theor
opinions published in newspapers concerned about an
audience
-
running
their own website is appropriate, don't you think?
The comments cover a wide gamut of opinion and are
pleasingly
polite.
As they should be, not unexpected.
You picked a tiny number of points from the website post,
and
ignored
everything else.
The thrust of the article is clear, it is about racism;
racism
that exists
today in this country.
I prefer to call it self-serving race-based preferment which
in
this case amounts to cultural exceptionalism.
What is being promoted and practised by exceptionalist
activists
and condoned by their political fellow-travellers speaks of
an
exceptionalism
and exclusivity claimed as if by Devine Right by those who
see
themselves as
"first nation". Indeed, according to the late Sir Ranganui
Walker[1], they will
milk this exceptionalism for all it's worth, in fact to the
point
where the
overall cost and disruption caused economically and
societally
becomes
unnaturally and inequitably disproportionate to the minority
-
and dare I say
it, merit - of those who would impose their far- too-often
hokum
ways on
others.
Further, cultural activism by a minority of the kind under
discussion will always win out over a taken-for-granted
cultural
apathy among
New Zealand's characteristically fretful majority. So it is,
I
think, down to
the latter to just stop whining fruitlessly to each other,
get
off their
apathetic butts and actually get down to devising whatever is
required to stem
the unchecked insinuation of a wholly self-serving minority
exceptionalism
they, the fretful majority, perceive as a threat to their own
cultural values.
Moreover, if you think or even actually believe this
government,
or any
government come to that, has become your master, then ask
yourselves, in a
voter-based democracy whose fault is that?
[1] "The Maori will always have his hand in the white man's
pocket". He also meant this metaphorically.
For as long as Sir Ranganui Walker's unedifying warning
continues
to
run, don't be surprised if and when naked racism is given its
ugly
voice, and
in this instance nationwide to boot. Here it is, made known
even
as I was
https://tinyurl.com/y6oodu7s
https://tinyurl.com/y6h65de7
(The Daily Mail enjoys the dubious distinction of being the
sole
paper of record catering to the hard-right, exceptionalist
bigot
and Brexiteer,
otherwise known collectively as "gammons".)
Banks is of course from much the same generation as Bassett;
So the two gentlemen are contemporaries. So what? Exactly what
other
equivalence are you suggesting?
Just that - they were involved in politics at a similar time - and
their adversarial expression of views; their view that their opinions
should be seen as authoritative; in short their arrogance, and you
rightly describe it below their deliberately provocative behaviour.
But there still remains a definable difference between the two.
Banks
is
unembarrassed and uncomplicated in his opinions and his
bull-in-a-china-shop
ways of expressing them. IOW he is wantonly, nakedly, shamelessly
"-ist"
to
every last fibre of his being as is every bonehead bigot and
contrarian
you
will ever meet. Basset not so, that's if his article is anything to go
by. In
fact his is more a message, a wakeup call, to the non-maori majority
to
look to
their own cultural interests and preferments, and to be sure
adequately
to
guard and preserve them against what he sees as the undue ingress of
minority's
cultural (not specifically "racist") customs, mores and values that he
perceives can only unduly dilute and subvert or even supplant them.
I agree - being of the same generation does not eliminate differences
- it may have given them a similar acceptance of the mores of their
time, particularly regarding political comment, but they are not the
same.
Post by James Christophers
But - and it is a big but - he offers not one word on how, collectively,
the majority might contrive and effect the required remedy when the
cultural
majority - yes, along with the "opposing" minority - have for too
long
been
indoctrinated, as one, in what I view as the culturally, spiritually and
morally regressive and insinuating ways of Political Correctness
gone
mad.
So his article fails not only because of this crucial in-yer-face
omission, but also because Basset is, as it were, too late by a
country
mile,
being himself for too long a part of the very problem he now brings -
again too
late - to both the majority's already pitiful attention-span, and the
adminstration's too-hard basket.
Nature abhors a vacuum and will always seek to fill it. This applies as
much to a lack of moral substance and determination in a nation's core
psyche
and identity as any other you can name.
I agree. The reality is that both major parties have allowed
immigration from a wider range of countries in recent years - and that
has meant that even National found it necessary to select candidates
with Maori, Chinese and Indian backgrounds. The acceptance of
multi-culturalism has highlights the previous lack of acceptance of
Maori culture, and that has been emphasises by the Treaty claim
process - again supported by both Labour and National, that has
highlighted past injustices. Both Basset and Banks are too
self-centred to understand that they are reaping the natural reqard
for past political decisions; it is just that they are set in their
self-centred ways to see that they are not keeping up.
All of which may be so. But what could be more instructive than to witness
two raddled and determinedly pakeha commentators exercising their long-since
decrepit defence mechanisms, a piteous behaviour only further
emphasising
and
exposing their own way-up-there-in-lights cultural insecurities?
More instructive is the reaction to such blatant offensive words - and
the determination by some to see it stopped - using the power of
public opinion to persuade advertisers to withdraw support from those
https://www.webworm.co/p/magictalkcancer
So John Banks is a racist. Who would have thought? He has demonstrated
that
for
decades.
Well done for your perspicacity.
Perhaps you did not read very far into the link. His racism had been
well established in this threadconsistent principles suggest the same
solution may be used for others.
Perhaps you did not understand what this topic was really about.
It is there in the Subject, Tony: "This Racist Country"
It was never about one individual
IK didn't say ot was.
Post by Rich80105
, but about views expressed on a blog
which took a fairly intolerant view of Maori and the use of the Maori
language - you started the thread with the subject and the article
which indicated you felt that at least one person was racist.
As is usual there have been a number of other posters - that is the
purpose of usenet after all - including James Christopher, me,
"undefined", and other posts by you; but all on the broad theme of
"This Racist Country."
The original post was about Maori racism and you know it.
Really? What racism did you see in the article, Tony?
Read it!
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
If you don't want discussion, I suggest you either give up posting to
or reading nz.general, or develop a little more tolerance - racism
being just one example of intolerance . . .
Don't be so pathetic.
This thread was about racism by Maori and specifically so and you know it.
As you have pointed out, the subject was about whether New Zealand is
a racist country. Our country has many people living here, including
the author of the article you referred to, who are not Maori. What
racism by Maori did you see?
Read it but this time endeavour to understand it.
I note you did not respond to my correction where I pointed out your ignoring
of the question mark.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by James Christophers
And as if to pile Pelion on Ossa, I rather doubt whether today's maori 16.7%
percent of the total population occupying 25% of our 120-seat
Parliament
will
bring them any comfort or reassurance, either.
Rich80105
2021-01-31 08:54:51 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Sun, 31 Jan 2021 02:30:48 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 30 Jan 2021 13:12:03 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 29 Jan 2021 22:32:41 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 29 Jan 2021 20:49:24 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 29 Jan 2021 17:16:40 -0800 (PST), James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 28 Jan 2021 18:29:38 -0800 (PST), James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 28 Jan 2021 14:27:19 -0800 (PST), James Christophers
Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 27 Jan 2021 13:00:47 -0800 (PST), James Christophers
On Wednesday, 27 January 2021 at 13:11:40 UTC+13, James
Christophers
On Wednesday, 27 January 2021 at 10:29:37 UTC+13, undefined
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 25 Jan 2021 20:07:42 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at
orcon
dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Tony
https://www.bassettbrashandhide.com/post/new-zealand-s-modern-cultural-cringe?fbclid=IwAR3pMZaHFKa9yL7KPDCo-BC9cxTIxivr7MsHRn8-cMK37zzjG05EgGUvI-o
A plea to the bigotted, read the content not the
publisher.
"All things derived from Europe except our creature
comforts
must be
set aside as we are expected to embrace all things Maori.
"
That certainly sounds bizarre, but thankfully not at all
consistent
with my experience. Most of my family tree goes back to
England,
Ireland and Scotland in times when these were definitely
not
regarded
as being part of "Europe," but I see cultural changes
including
greater recognition of our shared heritage now from Asia,
Pacific
Islands and elsewhere as well as a return to the closer
relationship
with Maori than I suspect we had in the early part of
last
century,
before the migration of many Maori to the cities.
"Several newspapers are falling into line" - into line
with
what?
There have been no changes to laws that have triggered
any
changes in
names used - it is possible that Bassett regrets we no
longer
use the
term "Mother Country", but this is not clear.
"We are expected to acquiesce." Really? Who by? What
statements
support this?
And so we could go on - yet another rambling protest at
change
from
aging "used to be" New Zealanders who would once have had
theor
opinions published in newspapers concerned about an
audience
-
running
their own website is appropriate, don't you think?
The comments cover a wide gamut of opinion and are
pleasingly
polite.
As they should be, not unexpected.
You picked a tiny number of points from the website post,
and
ignored
everything else.
The thrust of the article is clear, it is about racism;
racism
that exists
today in this country.
I prefer to call it self-serving race-based preferment which
in
this case amounts to cultural exceptionalism.
What is being promoted and practised by exceptionalist
activists
and condoned by their political fellow-travellers speaks of
an
exceptionalism
and exclusivity claimed as if by Devine Right by those who
see
themselves as
"first nation". Indeed, according to the late Sir Ranganui
Walker[1], they will
milk this exceptionalism for all it's worth, in fact to the
point
where the
overall cost and disruption caused economically and
societally
becomes
unnaturally and inequitably disproportionate to the minority
-
and dare I say
it, merit - of those who would impose their far- too-often
hokum
ways on
others.
Further, cultural activism by a minority of the kind under
discussion will always win out over a taken-for-granted
cultural
apathy among
New Zealand's characteristically fretful majority. So it is,
I
think, down to
the latter to just stop whining fruitlessly to each other,
get
off their
apathetic butts and actually get down to devising whatever is
required to stem
the unchecked insinuation of a wholly self-serving minority
exceptionalism
they, the fretful majority, perceive as a threat to their own
cultural values.
Moreover, if you think or even actually believe this
government,
or any
government come to that, has become your master, then ask
yourselves, in a
voter-based democracy whose fault is that?
[1] "The Maori will always have his hand in the white man's
pocket". He also meant this metaphorically.
For as long as Sir Ranganui Walker's unedifying warning
continues
to
run, don't be surprised if and when naked racism is given its
ugly
voice, and
in this instance nationwide to boot. Here it is, made known
even
as I was
https://tinyurl.com/y6oodu7s
https://tinyurl.com/y6h65de7
(The Daily Mail enjoys the dubious distinction of being the
sole
paper of record catering to the hard-right, exceptionalist
bigot
and Brexiteer,
otherwise known collectively as "gammons".)
Banks is of course from much the same generation as Bassett;
So the two gentlemen are contemporaries. So what? Exactly what
other
equivalence are you suggesting?
Just that - they were involved in politics at a similar time - and
their adversarial expression of views; their view that their
opinions
should be seen as authoritative; in short their arrogance, and you
rightly describe it below their deliberately provocative behaviour.
But there still remains a definable difference between the two.
Banks
is
unembarrassed and uncomplicated in his opinions and his
bull-in-a-china-shop
ways of expressing them. IOW he is wantonly, nakedly, shamelessly
"-ist"
to
every last fibre of his being as is every bonehead bigot and
contrarian
you
will ever meet. Basset not so, that's if his article is anything to go
by. In
fact his is more a message, a wakeup call, to the non-maori majority
to
look to
their own cultural interests and preferments, and to be sure
adequately
to
guard and preserve them against what he sees as the undue ingress of
minority's
cultural (not specifically "racist") customs, mores and values that he
perceives can only unduly dilute and subvert or even supplant them.
I agree - being of the same generation does not eliminate differences
- it may have given them a similar acceptance of the mores of their
time, particularly regarding political comment, but they are not the
same.
Post by James Christophers
But - and it is a big but - he offers not one word on how,
collectively,
the majority might contrive and effect the required remedy when the
cultural
majority - yes, along with the "opposing" minority - have for too
long
been
indoctrinated, as one, in what I view as the culturally, spiritually
and
morally regressive and insinuating ways of Political Correctness
gone
mad.
So his article fails not only because of this crucial in-yer-face
omission, but also because Basset is, as it were, too late by a
country
mile,
being himself for too long a part of the very problem he now brings -
again too
late - to both the majority's already pitiful attention-span, and the
adminstration's too-hard basket.
Nature abhors a vacuum and will always seek to fill it. This applies as
much to a lack of moral substance and determination in a nation's core
psyche
and identity as any other you can name.
I agree. The reality is that both major parties have allowed
immigration from a wider range of countries in recent years - and that
has meant that even National found it necessary to select candidates
with Maori, Chinese and Indian backgrounds. The acceptance of
multi-culturalism has highlights the previous lack of acceptance of
Maori culture, and that has been emphasises by the Treaty claim
process - again supported by both Labour and National, that has
highlighted past injustices. Both Basset and Banks are too
self-centred to understand that they are reaping the natural reqard
for past political decisions; it is just that they are set in their
self-centred ways to see that they are not keeping up.
All of which may be so. But what could be more instructive than to witness
two raddled and determinedly pakeha commentators exercising their long-since
decrepit defence mechanisms, a piteous behaviour only further
emphasising
and
exposing their own way-up-there-in-lights cultural insecurities?
More instructive is the reaction to such blatant offensive words - and
the determination by some to see it stopped - using the power of
public opinion to persuade advertisers to withdraw support from those
https://www.webworm.co/p/magictalkcancer
So John Banks is a racist. Who would have thought? He has demonstrated
that
for
decades.
Well done for your perspicacity.
Perhaps you did not read very far into the link. His racism had been
well established in this threadconsistent principles suggest the same
solution may be used for others.
Perhaps you did not understand what this topic was really about.
It is there in the Subject, Tony: "This Racist Country"
It was never about one individual
IK didn't say ot was.
Post by Rich80105
, but about views expressed on a blog
which took a fairly intolerant view of Maori and the use of the Maori
language - you started the thread with the subject and the article
which indicated you felt that at least one person was racist.
As is usual there have been a number of other posters - that is the
purpose of usenet after all - including James Christopher, me,
"undefined", and other posts by you; but all on the broad theme of
"This Racist Country."
The original post was about Maori racism and you know it.
Really? What racism did you see in the article, Tony?
Read it!
I was not looking for the racism that I saw or did not see in the
article, but the racism you saw, which you described as Maori racism -
it was not clear whether you were seeing racism by Maori - not
identified n the article, or racism by others relating to Maori. So
what racism did you see in the article, Tony?
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
If you don't want discussion, I suggest you either give up posting to
or reading nz.general, or develop a little more tolerance - racism
being just one example of intolerance . . .
Don't be so pathetic.
This thread was about racism by Maori and specifically so and you know it.
Aah, now you are claiming racism by Maori - can you give an example
from the article?
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
As you have pointed out, the subject was about whether New Zealand is
a racist country. Our country has many people living here, including
the author of the article you referred to, who are not Maori. What
racism by Maori did you see?
Read it but this time endeavour to understand it.
I asked a question - your request for me to read "it" is not an answer
to the question, Tony. What racism may Maori did _you_ see?
Post by Tony
I note you did not respond to my correction where I pointed out your ignoring
of the question mark.
I am not sure what response you were looking for. No posters
(including you) have commented on it, indeed you did not appear to
have called for a response to the implied question, but my personal
view, which is unaffected by the article, is that New Zealand does
have many individuals who do make racist remarks from time to time,
but that as a country we are less racist than many others. The article
was a small example of a concern by one individual; and is as much a
commentary on the author (and publisher) as it is a response to
whether New Zealand is a racist country
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by James Christophers
And as if to pile Pelion on Ossa, I rather doubt whether today's maori 16.7%
percent of the total population occupying 25% of our 120-seat
Parliament
will
bring them any comfort or reassurance, either.
Tony
2021-01-31 19:34:07 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Sun, 31 Jan 2021 02:30:48 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 30 Jan 2021 13:12:03 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 29 Jan 2021 22:32:41 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 29 Jan 2021 20:49:24 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 29 Jan 2021 17:16:40 -0800 (PST), James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 28 Jan 2021 18:29:38 -0800 (PST), James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 28 Jan 2021 14:27:19 -0800 (PST), James Christophers
On Thursday, 28 January 2021 at 16:53:57 UTC+13, Rich80105
Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 27 Jan 2021 13:00:47 -0800 (PST), James Christophers
On Wednesday, 27 January 2021 at 13:11:40 UTC+13, James
Christophers
On Wednesday, 27 January 2021 at 10:29:37 UTC+13,
undefined
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 25 Jan 2021 20:07:42 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at
orcon
dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Tony
https://www.bassettbrashandhide.com/post/new-zealand-s-modern-cultural-cringe?fbclid=IwAR3pMZaHFKa9yL7KPDCo-BC9cxTIxivr7MsHRn8-cMK37zzjG05EgGUvI-o
A plea to the bigotted, read the content not the
publisher.
"All things derived from Europe except our creature
comforts
must be
set aside as we are expected to embrace all things
Maori.
"
That certainly sounds bizarre, but thankfully not at
all
consistent
with my experience. Most of my family tree goes back to
England,
Ireland and Scotland in times when these were
definitely
not
regarded
as being part of "Europe," but I see cultural changes
including
greater recognition of our shared heritage now from
Asia,
Pacific
Islands and elsewhere as well as a return to the closer
relationship
with Maori than I suspect we had in the early part of
last
century,
before the migration of many Maori to the cities.
"Several newspapers are falling into line" - into line
with
what?
There have been no changes to laws that have triggered
any
changes in
names used - it is possible that Bassett regrets we no
longer
use the
term "Mother Country", but this is not clear.
"We are expected to acquiesce." Really? Who by? What
statements
support this?
And so we could go on - yet another rambling protest at
change
from
aging "used to be" New Zealanders who would once have
had
theor
opinions published in newspapers concerned about an
audience
-
running
their own website is appropriate, don't you think?
The comments cover a wide gamut of opinion and are
pleasingly
polite.
As they should be, not unexpected.
You picked a tiny number of points from the website
post,
and
ignored
everything else.
The thrust of the article is clear, it is about racism;
racism
that exists
today in this country.
I prefer to call it self-serving race-based preferment
which
in
this case amounts to cultural exceptionalism.
What is being promoted and practised by exceptionalist
activists
and condoned by their political fellow-travellers speaks of
an
exceptionalism
and exclusivity claimed as if by Devine Right by those who
see
themselves as
"first nation". Indeed, according to the late Sir Ranganui
Walker[1], they will
milk this exceptionalism for all it's worth, in fact to the
point
where the
overall cost and disruption caused economically and
societally
becomes
unnaturally and inequitably disproportionate to the
minority
-
and dare I say
it, merit - of those who would impose their far- too-often
hokum
ways on
others.
Further, cultural activism by a minority of the kind under
discussion will always win out over a taken-for-granted
cultural
apathy among
New Zealand's characteristically fretful majority. So it
is,
I
think, down to
the latter to just stop whining fruitlessly to each other,
get
off their
apathetic butts and actually get down to devising whatever
is
required to stem
the unchecked insinuation of a wholly self-serving minority
exceptionalism
they, the fretful majority, perceive as a threat to their
own
cultural values.
Moreover, if you think or even actually believe this
government,
or any
government come to that, has become your master, then ask
yourselves, in a
voter-based democracy whose fault is that?
[1] "The Maori will always have his hand in the white
man's
pocket". He also meant this metaphorically.
For as long as Sir Ranganui Walker's unedifying warning
continues
to
run, don't be surprised if and when naked racism is given
its
ugly
voice, and
in this instance nationwide to boot. Here it is, made known
even
as I was
https://tinyurl.com/y6oodu7s
https://tinyurl.com/y6h65de7
(The Daily Mail enjoys the dubious distinction of being the
sole
paper of record catering to the hard-right, exceptionalist
bigot
and Brexiteer,
otherwise known collectively as "gammons".)
Banks is of course from much the same generation as Bassett;
So the two gentlemen are contemporaries. So what? Exactly what
other
equivalence are you suggesting?
Just that - they were involved in politics at a similar time - and
their adversarial expression of views; their view that their
opinions
should be seen as authoritative; in short their arrogance, and you
rightly describe it below their deliberately provocative
behaviour.
But there still remains a definable difference between the two.
Banks
is
unembarrassed and uncomplicated in his opinions and his
bull-in-a-china-shop
ways of expressing them. IOW he is wantonly, nakedly, shamelessly
"-ist"
to
every last fibre of his being as is every bonehead bigot and
contrarian
you
will ever meet. Basset not so, that's if his article is anything
to
go
by. In
fact his is more a message, a wakeup call, to the non-maori majority
to
look to
their own cultural interests and preferments, and to be sure
adequately
to
guard and preserve them against what he sees as the undue ingress of
minority's
cultural (not specifically "racist") customs, mores and values
that
he
perceives can only unduly dilute and subvert or even supplant them.
I agree - being of the same generation does not eliminate differences
- it may have given them a similar acceptance of the mores of their
time, particularly regarding political comment, but they are not the
same.
Post by James Christophers
But - and it is a big but - he offers not one word on how,
collectively,
the majority might contrive and effect the required remedy when the
cultural
majority - yes, along with the "opposing" minority - have for too
long
been
indoctrinated, as one, in what I view as the culturally, spiritually
and
morally regressive and insinuating ways of Political Correctness
gone
mad.
So his article fails not only because of this crucial in-yer-face
omission, but also because Basset is, as it were, too late by a
country
mile,
being himself for too long a part of the very problem he now
brings
-
again too
late - to both the majority's already pitiful attention-span, and the
adminstration's too-hard basket.
Nature abhors a vacuum and will always seek to fill it. This
applies
as
much to a lack of moral substance and determination in a nation's
core
psyche
and identity as any other you can name.
I agree. The reality is that both major parties have allowed
immigration from a wider range of countries in recent years - and that
has meant that even National found it necessary to select candidates
with Maori, Chinese and Indian backgrounds. The acceptance of
multi-culturalism has highlights the previous lack of acceptance of
Maori culture, and that has been emphasises by the Treaty claim
process - again supported by both Labour and National, that has
highlighted past injustices. Both Basset and Banks are too
self-centred to understand that they are reaping the natural reqard
for past political decisions; it is just that they are set in their
self-centred ways to see that they are not keeping up.
All of which may be so. But what could be more instructive than to witness
two raddled and determinedly pakeha commentators exercising their
long-since
decrepit defence mechanisms, a piteous behaviour only further
emphasising
and
exposing their own way-up-there-in-lights cultural insecurities?
More instructive is the reaction to such blatant offensive words - and
the determination by some to see it stopped - using the power of
public opinion to persuade advertisers to withdraw support from those
https://www.webworm.co/p/magictalkcancer
So John Banks is a racist. Who would have thought? He has demonstrated
that
for
decades.
Well done for your perspicacity.
Perhaps you did not read very far into the link. His racism had been
well established in this threadconsistent principles suggest the same
solution may be used for others.
Perhaps you did not understand what this topic was really about.
It is there in the Subject, Tony: "This Racist Country"
It was never about one individual
IK didn't say ot was.
Post by Rich80105
, but about views expressed on a blog
which took a fairly intolerant view of Maori and the use of the Maori
language - you started the thread with the subject and the article
which indicated you felt that at least one person was racist.
As is usual there have been a number of other posters - that is the
purpose of usenet after all - including James Christopher, me,
"undefined", and other posts by you; but all on the broad theme of
"This Racist Country."
The original post was about Maori racism and you know it.
Really? What racism did you see in the article, Tony?
Read it!
I was not looking for the racism that I saw or did not see in the
article, but the racism you saw, which you described as Maori racism -
it was not clear whether you were seeing racism by Maori - not
identified n the article, or racism by others relating to Maori. So
what racism did you see in the article, Tony?
ALready told you to read the article - it is all there.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
If you don't want discussion, I suggest you either give up posting to
or reading nz.general, or develop a little more tolerance - racism
being just one example of intolerance . . .
Don't be so pathetic.
This thread was about racism by Maori and specifically so and you know it.
Aah, now you are claiming racism by Maori - can you give an example
from the article?
Not "now", I have changed nothing.
"A bizarre craze seems to be sweeping New Zealand right now. All things derived
from Europe except our creature comforts must be set aside as we are expected
to embrace all things Maori. It’s racism on a grand scale."
Just read the damn thing,
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
As you have pointed out, the subject was about whether New Zealand is
a racist country. Our country has many people living here, including
the author of the article you referred to, who are not Maori. What
racism by Maori did you see?
Read it but this time endeavour to understand it.
I asked a question - your request for me to read "it" is not an answer
It would be for anybody else.
Post by Rich80105
to the question, Tony. What racism may Maori did _you_ see?
Post by Tony
I note you did not respond to my correction where I pointed out your ignoring
of the question mark.
I am not sure what response you were looking for. No posters
(including you) have commented on it, indeed you did not appear to
have called for a response to the implied question, but my personal
view, which is unaffected by the article, is that New Zealand does
have many individuals who do make racist remarks from time to time,
but that as a country we are less racist than many others. The article
was a small example of a concern by one individual; and is as much a
commentary on the author (and publisher) as it is a response to
whether New Zealand is a racist country
That is a matter of opiniopn, one that few would share with you.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by James Christophers
And as if to pile Pelion on Ossa, I rather doubt whether today's
maori
16.7%
percent of the total population occupying 25% of our 120-seat
Parliament
will
bring them any comfort or reassurance, either.
Rich80105
2021-01-31 23:37:17 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Sun, 31 Jan 2021 13:34:07 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sun, 31 Jan 2021 02:30:48 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 30 Jan 2021 13:12:03 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 29 Jan 2021 22:32:41 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 29 Jan 2021 20:49:24 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 29 Jan 2021 17:16:40 -0800 (PST), James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 28 Jan 2021 18:29:38 -0800 (PST), James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 28 Jan 2021 14:27:19 -0800 (PST), James Christophers
On Thursday, 28 January 2021 at 16:53:57 UTC+13, Rich80105
Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 27 Jan 2021 13:00:47 -0800 (PST), James Christophers
On Wednesday, 27 January 2021 at 13:11:40 UTC+13, James
Christophers
On Wednesday, 27 January 2021 at 10:29:37 UTC+13,
undefined
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 25 Jan 2021 20:07:42 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at
orcon
dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Tony
https://www.bassettbrashandhide.com/post/new-zealand-s-modern-cultural-cringe?fbclid=IwAR3pMZaHFKa9yL7KPDCo-BC9cxTIxivr7MsHRn8-cMK37zzjG05EgGUvI-o
A plea to the bigotted, read the content not the
publisher.
"All things derived from Europe except our creature
comforts
must be
set aside as we are expected to embrace all things
Maori.
"
That certainly sounds bizarre, but thankfully not at
all
consistent
with my experience. Most of my family tree goes back to
England,
Ireland and Scotland in times when these were
definitely
not
regarded
as being part of "Europe," but I see cultural changes
including
greater recognition of our shared heritage now from
Asia,
Pacific
Islands and elsewhere as well as a return to the closer
relationship
with Maori than I suspect we had in the early part of
last
century,
before the migration of many Maori to the cities.
"Several newspapers are falling into line" - into line
with
what?
There have been no changes to laws that have triggered
any
changes in
names used - it is possible that Bassett regrets we no
longer
use the
term "Mother Country", but this is not clear.
"We are expected to acquiesce." Really? Who by? What
statements
support this?
And so we could go on - yet another rambling protest at
change
from
aging "used to be" New Zealanders who would once have
had
theor
opinions published in newspapers concerned about an
audience
-
running
their own website is appropriate, don't you think?
The comments cover a wide gamut of opinion and are
pleasingly
polite.
As they should be, not unexpected.
You picked a tiny number of points from the website
post,
and
ignored
everything else.
The thrust of the article is clear, it is about racism;
racism
that exists
today in this country.
I prefer to call it self-serving race-based preferment
which
in
this case amounts to cultural exceptionalism.
What is being promoted and practised by exceptionalist
activists
and condoned by their political fellow-travellers speaks of
an
exceptionalism
and exclusivity claimed as if by Devine Right by those who
see
themselves as
"first nation". Indeed, according to the late Sir Ranganui
Walker[1], they will
milk this exceptionalism for all it's worth, in fact to the
point
where the
overall cost and disruption caused economically and
societally
becomes
unnaturally and inequitably disproportionate to the
minority
-
and dare I say
it, merit - of those who would impose their far- too-often
hokum
ways on
others.
Further, cultural activism by a minority of the kind under
discussion will always win out over a taken-for-granted
cultural
apathy among
New Zealand's characteristically fretful majority. So it
is,
I
think, down to
the latter to just stop whining fruitlessly to each other,
get
off their
apathetic butts and actually get down to devising whatever
is
required to stem
the unchecked insinuation of a wholly self-serving minority
exceptionalism
they, the fretful majority, perceive as a threat to their
own
cultural values.
Moreover, if you think or even actually believe this
government,
or any
government come to that, has become your master, then ask
yourselves, in a
voter-based democracy whose fault is that?
[1] "The Maori will always have his hand in the white
man's
pocket". He also meant this metaphorically.
For as long as Sir Ranganui Walker's unedifying warning
continues
to
run, don't be surprised if and when naked racism is given
its
ugly
voice, and
in this instance nationwide to boot. Here it is, made known
even
as I was
https://tinyurl.com/y6oodu7s
https://tinyurl.com/y6h65de7
(The Daily Mail enjoys the dubious distinction of being the
sole
paper of record catering to the hard-right, exceptionalist
bigot
and Brexiteer,
otherwise known collectively as "gammons".)
Banks is of course from much the same generation as Bassett;
So the two gentlemen are contemporaries. So what? Exactly what
other
equivalence are you suggesting?
Just that - they were involved in politics at a similar time -
and
their adversarial expression of views; their view that their
opinions
should be seen as authoritative; in short their arrogance, and
you
rightly describe it below their deliberately provocative
behaviour.
But there still remains a definable difference between the two.
Banks
is
unembarrassed and uncomplicated in his opinions and his
bull-in-a-china-shop
ways of expressing them. IOW he is wantonly, nakedly, shamelessly
"-ist"
to
every last fibre of his being as is every bonehead bigot and
contrarian
you
will ever meet. Basset not so, that's if his article is anything
to
go
by. In
fact his is more a message, a wakeup call, to the non-maori
majority
to
look to
their own cultural interests and preferments, and to be sure
adequately
to
guard and preserve them against what he sees as the undue ingress
of
minority's
cultural (not specifically "racist") customs, mores and values
that
he
perceives can only unduly dilute and subvert or even supplant them.
I agree - being of the same generation does not eliminate differences
- it may have given them a similar acceptance of the mores of their
time, particularly regarding political comment, but they are not the
same.
Post by James Christophers
But - and it is a big but - he offers not one word on how,
collectively,
the majority might contrive and effect the required remedy when the
cultural
majority - yes, along with the "opposing" minority - have for too
long
been
indoctrinated, as one, in what I view as the culturally,
spiritually
and
morally regressive and insinuating ways of Political Correctness
gone
mad.
So his article fails not only because of this crucial in-yer-face
omission, but also because Basset is, as it were, too late by a
country
mile,
being himself for too long a part of the very problem he now
brings
-
again too
late - to both the majority's already pitiful attention-span, and
the
adminstration's too-hard basket.
Nature abhors a vacuum and will always seek to fill it. This
applies
as
much to a lack of moral substance and determination in a nation's
core
psyche
and identity as any other you can name.
I agree. The reality is that both major parties have allowed
immigration from a wider range of countries in recent years - and that
has meant that even National found it necessary to select candidates
with Maori, Chinese and Indian backgrounds. The acceptance of
multi-culturalism has highlights the previous lack of acceptance of
Maori culture, and that has been emphasises by the Treaty claim
process - again supported by both Labour and National, that has
highlighted past injustices. Both Basset and Banks are too
self-centred to understand that they are reaping the natural reqard
for past political decisions; it is just that they are set in their
self-centred ways to see that they are not keeping up.
All of which may be so. But what could be more instructive than to
witness
two raddled and determinedly pakeha commentators exercising their
long-since
decrepit defence mechanisms, a piteous behaviour only further
emphasising
and
exposing their own way-up-there-in-lights cultural insecurities?
More instructive is the reaction to such blatant offensive words - and
the determination by some to see it stopped - using the power of
public opinion to persuade advertisers to withdraw support from those
https://www.webworm.co/p/magictalkcancer
So John Banks is a racist. Who would have thought? He has demonstrated
that
for
decades.
Well done for your perspicacity.
Perhaps you did not read very far into the link. His racism had been
well established in this threadconsistent principles suggest the same
solution may be used for others.
Perhaps you did not understand what this topic was really about.
It is there in the Subject, Tony: "This Racist Country"
It was never about one individual
IK didn't say ot was.
Post by Rich80105
, but about views expressed on a blog
which took a fairly intolerant view of Maori and the use of the Maori
language - you started the thread with the subject and the article
which indicated you felt that at least one person was racist.
As is usual there have been a number of other posters - that is the
purpose of usenet after all - including James Christopher, me,
"undefined", and other posts by you; but all on the broad theme of
"This Racist Country."
The original post was about Maori racism and you know it.
Really? What racism did you see in the article, Tony?
Read it!
I was not looking for the racism that I saw or did not see in the
article, but the racism you saw, which you described as Maori racism -
it was not clear whether you were seeing racism by Maori - not
identified n the article, or racism by others relating to Maori. So
what racism did you see in the article, Tony?
ALready told you to read the article - it is all there.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
If you don't want discussion, I suggest you either give up posting to
or reading nz.general, or develop a little more tolerance - racism
being just one example of intolerance . . .
Don't be so pathetic.
This thread was about racism by Maori and specifically so and you know it.
Aah, now you are claiming racism by Maori - can you give an example
from the article?
Not "now", I have changed nothing.
"A bizarre craze seems to be sweeping New Zealand right now. All things derived
from Europe except our creature comforts must be set aside as we are expected
to embrace all things Maori. It’s racism on a grand scale."
Just read the damn thing,
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
As you have pointed out, the subject was about whether New Zealand is
a racist country. Our country has many people living here, including
the author of the article you referred to, who are not Maori. What
racism by Maori did you see?
Read it but this time endeavour to understand it.
I asked a question - your request for me to read "it" is not an answer
It would be for anybody else.
Post by Rich80105
to the question, Tony. What racism may Maori did _you_ see?
You appear to be avoiding this question, Tony.

What racism by Maori did _you_ see?
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
I note you did not respond to my correction where I pointed out your ignoring
of the question mark.
I am not sure what response you were looking for. No posters
(including you) have commented on it, indeed you did not appear to
have called for a response to the implied question, but my personal
view, which is unaffected by the article, is that New Zealand does
have many individuals who do make racist remarks from time to time,
but that as a country we are less racist than many others. The article
was a small example of a concern by one individual; and is as much a
commentary on the author (and publisher) as it is a response to
whether New Zealand is a racist country
That is a matter of opiniopn, one that few would share with you.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by James Christophers
And as if to pile Pelion on Ossa, I rather doubt whether today's
maori
16.7%
percent of the total population occupying 25% of our 120-seat
Parliament
will
bring them any comfort or reassurance, either.
Tony
2021-02-01 00:31:26 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Extraneous detail removed because this thread has now become one of whether
Rich can understand English.
Post by Rich80105
You appear to be avoiding this question, Tony.
What racism by Maori did _you_ see?
Already answered but once more ignored by you.
"A bizarre craze seems to be sweeping New Zealand right now. All things derived
from Europe except our creature comforts must be set aside as we are expected
to embrace all things Maori. It’s racism on a grand scale."

Directly from the cite and if you read past that first sentence you may receive
some edification.

"I prefer to call it self-serving race-based preferment which in this case
amounts to cultural exceptionalism.

What is being promoted and practised by exceptionalist activists and condoned
by their political fellow-travellers speaks of an exceptionalism and
exclusivity claimed as if by Devine Right by those who see themselves as "first
nation". Indeed, according to the late Sir Ranganui Walker[1], they will milk
this exceptionalism for all it's worth, in fact to the point where the overall
cost and disruption caused economically and societally becomes unnaturally and
inequitably disproportionate to the minority - and dare I say it, merit - of
those who would impose their far- too-often hokum ways on others.

Further, cultural activism by a minority of the kind under discussion will
always win out over a taken-for-granted cultural apathy among New Zealand's
characteristically fretful majority. So it is, I think, down to the latter to
just stop whining fruitlessly to each other, get off their apathetic butts and
actually get down to devising whatever is required to stem the unchecked
insinuation of a wholly self-serving minority exceptionalism they, the fretful
majority, perceive as a threat to their own cultural values. Moreover, if you
think or even actually believe this government, or any government come to that,
has become your master, then ask yourselves, in a voter-based democracy whose
fault is that?

[1] "The Maori will always have his hand in the white man's pocket". He also
meant this metaphorically."

This from James Christophers who although preferring a different description
appears to not arhue abput what the article is saying.

This thread started as a clear attempt to show that there is recism by some of
those that claim the rest of us are racist.
I did not and do not suggest that non-Maori people are not racist, plenty
clearly are. The reverse is equally true, and denying it is ridiculous.
James Christophers
2021-02-01 01:27:03 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Tony
Extraneous detail removed because this thread has now become one of whether
Rich can understand English.
Post by Rich80105
You appear to be avoiding this question, Tony.
What racism by Maori did _you_ see?
Already answered but once more ignored by you.
"A bizarre craze seems to be sweeping New Zealand right now. All things derived
from Europe except our creature comforts must be set aside as we are expected
to embrace all things Maori. It’s racism on a grand scale."
Directly from the cite and if you read past that first sentence you may receive
some edification.
"I prefer to call it self-serving race-based preferment which in this case
amounts to cultural exceptionalism.
What is being promoted and practised by exceptionalist activists and condoned
by their political fellow-travellers speaks of an exceptionalism and
exclusivity claimed as if by Devine Right by those who see themselves as "first
nation". Indeed, according to the late Sir Ranganui Walker[1], they will milk
this exceptionalism for all it's worth, in fact to the point where the overall
cost and disruption caused economically and societally becomes unnaturally and
inequitably disproportionate to the minority - and dare I say it, merit - of
those who would impose their far- too-often hokum ways on others.
Further, cultural activism by a minority of the kind under discussion will
always win out over a taken-for-granted cultural apathy among New Zealand's
characteristically fretful majority. So it is, I think, down to the latter to
just stop whining fruitlessly to each other, get off their apathetic butts and
actually get down to devising whatever is required to stem the unchecked
insinuation of a wholly self-serving minority exceptionalism they, the fretful
majority, perceive as a threat to their own cultural values. Moreover, if you
think or even actually believe this government, or any government come to that,
has become your master, then ask yourselves, in a voter-based democracy whose
fault is that?
[1] "The Maori will always have his hand in the white man's pocket". He also
meant this metaphorically."
This from James Christophers who although preferring a different description
appears to not argue about what the article is saying.
Correct, and I choose to remain neutral - at least for now - in expressing my views on the views expressed in the orginal URL reference.

I do, however, have my own opinions on the way Bassett has, in this instance, gone about his inflammatory excoriation of both the maori cultural activists and their supporters. Plus, if you please, his presuming to speak for me and every other New Zealanders in his cavalier use of the collective "we". To me, this is arrogant, in-yer-face demagoguery at its crudest. Further, I suggest this is no way for a man of his (presumed) mana to behave on a public forum, particularly one bearing his identity as titular head and moderator of content. Together, both his rhetoric and his divisiveness defy the very purpose and function of reasoned discourse and the same goes for any who align themselves with him in the language he deliberately chooses to promote his views. Of all people he should know otherwise, yet appears to have allowed his own long held prejudices to get the better of him. The latter evident in his failure to provide any reasoned countervailing remedy(ies) with a view to promoting some degree of amelioration of the issue that so exercises him. As the age-old dictum goes, "Beware an old man in a hurry."

To me, what lies behind the whole dangerous polemic is what I view as the damaging excesses - even to the extent of cultural denigration and repression - that characterise the worst aspects of Political Correctness. I think this is, at least in part, the not-so-insidious cultural malaise that Bassett recognises and fears, but feels so powerless to resist or come to terms with. "He's had it up to here..." and on this issue is, I think, beyond reason.
Rich80105
2021-02-01 01:34:43 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Sun, 31 Jan 2021 18:31:26 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Extraneous detail removed because this thread has now become one of whether
Rich can understand English.
Post by Rich80105
You appear to be avoiding this question, Tony.
What racism by Maori did _you_ see?
Already answered but once more ignored by you.
"A bizarre craze seems to be sweeping New Zealand right now. All things derived
from Europe except our creature comforts must be set aside as we are expected
to embrace all things Maori. It’s racism on a grand scale."
It is indeed a bizarre statement. You and I are not being required to
do anything - the "must" is that extract is plainly an overstatement.
Nowhere are Maori shown to be responsible for imposing anything on
anyone. If there is a bizarre craze it is the people taken in by this
hysterical outburst of fantasy. What creature comforts have you been
required to set aside, Tony? We are not expected to ëmbrace all things
Maori".
Post by Tony
Directly from the cite and if you read past that first sentence you may receive
some edification.
"I prefer to call it self-serving race-based preferment which in this case
amounts to cultural exceptionalism.
What is being promoted and practised by exceptionalist activists and condoned
by their political fellow-travellers speaks of an exceptionalism and
exclusivity claimed as if by Devine Right by those who see themselves as "first
nation". Indeed, according to the late Sir Ranganui Walker[1], they will milk
this exceptionalism for all it's worth, in fact to the point where the overall
cost and disruption caused economically and societally becomes unnaturally and
inequitably disproportionate to the minority - and dare I say it, merit - of
those who would impose their far- too-often hokum ways on others.
Further, cultural activism by a minority of the kind under discussion will
always win out over a taken-for-granted cultural apathy among New Zealand's
characteristically fretful majority. So it is, I think, down to the latter to
just stop whining fruitlessly to each other, get off their apathetic butts and
actually get down to devising whatever is required to stem the unchecked
insinuation of a wholly self-serving minority exceptionalism they, the fretful
majority, perceive as a threat to their own cultural values. Moreover, if you
think or even actually believe this government, or any government come to that,
has become your master, then ask yourselves, in a voter-based democracy whose
fault is that?
[1] "The Maori will always have his hand in the white man's pocket". He also
meant this metaphorically."
This from James Christophers who although preferring a different description
appears to not arhue abput what the article is saying.
He does not appear however to accuse anyone of racism. Lobbying for
the interests of a particular group is well known and expected from
many groups - many have achieved special assistance from government as
a result. Maori do of course have some rights arising from the Treaty
of Waitangi; that they have had to fight for that to be recognised -
or for compensation for rights being denied does not change that
situation. Maori was recognised as an Official Language some years ago
- seeking to have it used would not be wrong, but in the examples
given it appears that the use of Maori has been voluntarily initiated
by a number of organisationss. That does not indicate racism on thier
part, rather a willingness to do what is necessary to be relevant to
different groups, and to communicate as well as possible.
Post by Tony
This thread started as a clear attempt to show that there is recism by some of
those that claim the rest of us are racist.
If that was your intention then I believe you have failed to identify
any claim that "the rest of us" (whatever group you were referring to)
are racist. You appear to have been taken in by the fantasies of
Bassett
Post by Tony
I did not and do not suggest that non-Maori people are not racist, plenty
clearly are. The reverse is equally true, and denying it is ridiculous.
How very helpful of you; but it is not clear what relevance that
truism has to this thread, except that you appear to confirm my view
of whether this country is racist . . .
Tony
2021-02-01 03:28:14 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Sun, 31 Jan 2021 18:31:26 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Extraneous detail removed because this thread has now become one of whether
Rich can understand English.
Post by Rich80105
You appear to be avoiding this question, Tony.
What racism by Maori did _you_ see?
Already answered but once more ignored by you.
"A bizarre craze seems to be sweeping New Zealand right now. All things derived
from Europe except our creature comforts must be set aside as we are expected
to embrace all things Maori. It’s racism on a grand scale."
It is indeed a bizarre statement. You and I are not being required to
do anything - the "must" is that extract is plainly an overstatement.
Nowhere are Maori shown to be responsible for imposing anything on
anyone. If there is a bizarre craze it is the people taken in by this
hysterical outburst of fantasy. What creature comforts have you been
required to set aside, Tony? We are not expected to ëmbrace all things
Maori".
Post by Tony
Directly from the cite and if you read past that first sentence you may receive
some edification.
"I prefer to call it self-serving race-based preferment which in this case
amounts to cultural exceptionalism.
What is being promoted and practised by exceptionalist activists and condoned
by their political fellow-travellers speaks of an exceptionalism and
exclusivity claimed as if by Devine Right by those who see themselves as "first
nation". Indeed, according to the late Sir Ranganui Walker[1], they will milk
this exceptionalism for all it's worth, in fact to the point where the overall
cost and disruption caused economically and societally becomes unnaturally and
inequitably disproportionate to the minority - and dare I say it, merit - of
those who would impose their far- too-often hokum ways on others.
Further, cultural activism by a minority of the kind under discussion will
always win out over a taken-for-granted cultural apathy among New Zealand's
characteristically fretful majority. So it is, I think, down to the latter to
just stop whining fruitlessly to each other, get off their apathetic butts and
actually get down to devising whatever is required to stem the unchecked
insinuation of a wholly self-serving minority exceptionalism they, the fretful
majority, perceive as a threat to their own cultural values. Moreover, if you
think or even actually believe this government, or any government come to that,
has become your master, then ask yourselves, in a voter-based democracy whose
fault is that?
[1] "The Maori will always have his hand in the white man's pocket". He also
meant this metaphorically."
This from James Christophers who although preferring a different description
appears to not arhue abput what the article is saying.
He does not appear however to accuse anyone of racism. Lobbying for
the interests of a particular group is well known and expected from
many groups - many have achieved special assistance from government as
a result. Maori do of course have some rights arising from the Treaty
of Waitangi; that they have had to fight for that to be recognised -
or for compensation for rights being denied does not change that
situation. Maori was recognised as an Official Language some years ago
- seeking to have it used would not be wrong, but in the examples
given it appears that the use of Maori has been voluntarily initiated
by a number of organisationss. That does not indicate racism on thier
part, rather a willingness to do what is necessary to be relevant to
different groups, and to communicate as well as possible.
Post by Tony
This thread started as a clear attempt to show that there is recism by some of
those that claim the rest of us are racist.
If that was your intention then I believe you have failed to identify
any claim that "the rest of us" (whatever group you were referring to)
are racist. You appear to have been taken in by the fantasies of
Bassett
Post by Tony
I did not and do not suggest that non-Maori people are not racist, plenty
clearly are. The reverse is equally true, and denying it is ridiculous.
How very helpful of you; but it is not clear what relevance that
truism has to this thread, except that you appear to confirm my view
of whether this country is racist . . .
You are incapable of balance or fairness.
The thread was provided in good faith and you have prevaricated and twisted as
so often you do.
Your sarcasm is clearly still in place and dominant.
If you really belive that there is no racism amongst Maori then you are deluded.
Rich80105
2021-02-01 09:20:51 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Sun, 31 Jan 2021 21:28:14 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sun, 31 Jan 2021 18:31:26 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Extraneous detail removed because this thread has now become one of whether
Rich can understand English.
Post by Rich80105
You appear to be avoiding this question, Tony.
What racism by Maori did _you_ see?
Already answered but once more ignored by you.
"A bizarre craze seems to be sweeping New Zealand right now. All things derived
from Europe except our creature comforts must be set aside as we are expected
to embrace all things Maori. It’s racism on a grand scale."
It is indeed a bizarre statement. You and I are not being required to
do anything - the "must" is that extract is plainly an overstatement.
Nowhere are Maori shown to be responsible for imposing anything on
anyone. If there is a bizarre craze it is the people taken in by this
hysterical outburst of fantasy. What creature comforts have you been
required to set aside, Tony? We are not expected to ëmbrace all things
Maori".
Post by Tony
Directly from the cite and if you read past that first sentence you may receive
some edification.
"I prefer to call it self-serving race-based preferment which in this case
amounts to cultural exceptionalism.
What is being promoted and practised by exceptionalist activists and condoned
by their political fellow-travellers speaks of an exceptionalism and
exclusivity claimed as if by Devine Right by those who see themselves as "first
nation". Indeed, according to the late Sir Ranganui Walker[1], they will milk
this exceptionalism for all it's worth, in fact to the point where the overall
cost and disruption caused economically and societally becomes unnaturally and
inequitably disproportionate to the minority - and dare I say it, merit - of
those who would impose their far- too-often hokum ways on others.
Further, cultural activism by a minority of the kind under discussion will
always win out over a taken-for-granted cultural apathy among New Zealand's
characteristically fretful majority. So it is, I think, down to the latter to
just stop whining fruitlessly to each other, get off their apathetic butts and
actually get down to devising whatever is required to stem the unchecked
insinuation of a wholly self-serving minority exceptionalism they, the fretful
majority, perceive as a threat to their own cultural values. Moreover, if you
think or even actually believe this government, or any government come to that,
has become your master, then ask yourselves, in a voter-based democracy whose
fault is that?
[1] "The Maori will always have his hand in the white man's pocket". He also
meant this metaphorically."
This from James Christophers who although preferring a different description
appears to not arhue abput what the article is saying.
He does not appear however to accuse anyone of racism. Lobbying for
the interests of a particular group is well known and expected from
many groups - many have achieved special assistance from government as
a result. Maori do of course have some rights arising from the Treaty
of Waitangi; that they have had to fight for that to be recognised -
or for compensation for rights being denied does not change that
situation. Maori was recognised as an Official Language some years ago
- seeking to have it used would not be wrong, but in the examples
given it appears that the use of Maori has been voluntarily initiated
by a number of organisationss. That does not indicate racism on thier
part, rather a willingness to do what is necessary to be relevant to
different groups, and to communicate as well as possible.
Post by Tony
This thread started as a clear attempt to show that there is recism by some of
those that claim the rest of us are racist.
If that was your intention then I believe you have failed to identify
any claim that "the rest of us" (whatever group you were referring to)
are racist. You appear to have been taken in by the fantasies of
Bassett
Post by Tony
I did not and do not suggest that non-Maori people are not racist, plenty
clearly are. The reverse is equally true, and denying it is ridiculous.
How very helpful of you; but it is not clear what relevance that
truism has to this thread, except that you appear to confirm my view
of whether this country is racist . . .
You are incapable of balance or fairness.
The thread was provided in good faith and you have prevaricated and twisted as
so often you do.
Your sarcasm is clearly still in place and dominant.
If you really belive that there is no racism amongst Maori then you are deluded.
Of course there is some racism amopng every largegroup in New Zealand,
but I have not implied that there wasn't. I asked where you saw racism
in the article you referred to; you have been unable to demonstrate
any from Maori. Instead you have refused to address questions and
requests for clarification from you, instead yet again abusing other
posters.
Tony
2021-02-01 18:47:04 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Sun, 31 Jan 2021 21:28:14 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sun, 31 Jan 2021 18:31:26 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Extraneous detail removed because this thread has now become one of whether
Rich can understand English.
Post by Rich80105
You appear to be avoiding this question, Tony.
What racism by Maori did _you_ see?
Already answered but once more ignored by you.
"A bizarre craze seems to be sweeping New Zealand right now. All things derived
from Europe except our creature comforts must be set aside as we are expected
to embrace all things Maori. It’s racism on a grand scale."
It is indeed a bizarre statement. You and I are not being required to
do anything - the "must" is that extract is plainly an overstatement.
Nowhere are Maori shown to be responsible for imposing anything on
anyone. If there is a bizarre craze it is the people taken in by this
hysterical outburst of fantasy. What creature comforts have you been
required to set aside, Tony? We are not expected to ëmbrace all things
Maori".
Post by Tony
Directly from the cite and if you read past that first sentence you may receive
some edification.
"I prefer to call it self-serving race-based preferment which in this case
amounts to cultural exceptionalism.
What is being promoted and practised by exceptionalist activists and condoned
by their political fellow-travellers speaks of an exceptionalism and
exclusivity claimed as if by Devine Right by those who see themselves as "first
nation". Indeed, according to the late Sir Ranganui Walker[1], they will milk
this exceptionalism for all it's worth, in fact to the point where the overall
cost and disruption caused economically and societally becomes unnaturally and
inequitably disproportionate to the minority - and dare I say it, merit - of
those who would impose their far- too-often hokum ways on others.
Further, cultural activism by a minority of the kind under discussion will
always win out over a taken-for-granted cultural apathy among New Zealand's
characteristically fretful majority. So it is, I think, down to the latter to
just stop whining fruitlessly to each other, get off their apathetic butts and
actually get down to devising whatever is required to stem the unchecked
insinuation of a wholly self-serving minority exceptionalism they, the fretful
majority, perceive as a threat to their own cultural values. Moreover, if you
think or even actually believe this government, or any government come to that,
has become your master, then ask yourselves, in a voter-based democracy whose
fault is that?
[1] "The Maori will always have his hand in the white man's pocket". He also
meant this metaphorically."
This from James Christophers who although preferring a different description
appears to not arhue abput what the article is saying.
He does not appear however to accuse anyone of racism. Lobbying for
the interests of a particular group is well known and expected from
many groups - many have achieved special assistance from government as
a result. Maori do of course have some rights arising from the Treaty
of Waitangi; that they have had to fight for that to be recognised -
or for compensation for rights being denied does not change that
situation. Maori was recognised as an Official Language some years ago
- seeking to have it used would not be wrong, but in the examples
given it appears that the use of Maori has been voluntarily initiated
by a number of organisationss. That does not indicate racism on thier
part, rather a willingness to do what is necessary to be relevant to
different groups, and to communicate as well as possible.
Post by Tony
This thread started as a clear attempt to show that there is recism by some of
those that claim the rest of us are racist.
If that was your intention then I believe you have failed to identify
any claim that "the rest of us" (whatever group you were referring to)
are racist. You appear to have been taken in by the fantasies of
Bassett
Post by Tony
I did not and do not suggest that non-Maori people are not racist, plenty
clearly are. The reverse is equally true, and denying it is ridiculous.
How very helpful of you; but it is not clear what relevance that
truism has to this thread, except that you appear to confirm my view
of whether this country is racist . . .
You are incapable of balance or fairness.
The thread was provided in good faith and you have prevaricated and twisted as
so often you do.
Your sarcasm is clearly still in place and dominant.
If you really belive that there is no racism amongst Maori then you are deluded.
Of course there is some racism amopng every largegroup in New Zealand,
but I have not implied that there wasn't. I asked where you saw racism
in the article you referred to; you have been unable to demonstrate
any from Maori. Instead you have refused to address questions and
requests for clarification from you, instead yet again abusing other
posters.
You are a liar. I have abused nobody. You need to show that I have or go away
and face the corner again.
The article shows plenty of abuse, you simply cannot understand it.
John Bowes
2021-02-01 21:24:51 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sun, 31 Jan 2021 21:28:14 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sun, 31 Jan 2021 18:31:26 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Extraneous detail removed because this thread has now become one of whether
Rich can understand English.
Post by Rich80105
You appear to be avoiding this question, Tony.
What racism by Maori did _you_ see?
Already answered but once more ignored by you.
"A bizarre craze seems to be sweeping New Zealand right now. All things derived
from Europe except our creature comforts must be set aside as we are expected
to embrace all things Maori. It’s racism on a grand scale."
It is indeed a bizarre statement. You and I are not being required to
do anything - the "must" is that extract is plainly an overstatement.
Nowhere are Maori shown to be responsible for imposing anything on
anyone. If there is a bizarre craze it is the people taken in by this
hysterical outburst of fantasy. What creature comforts have you been
required to set aside, Tony? We are not expected to ėmbrace all things
Maori".
Post by Tony
Directly from the cite and if you read past that first sentence you may receive
some edification.
"I prefer to call it self-serving race-based preferment which in this case
amounts to cultural exceptionalism.
What is being promoted and practised by exceptionalist activists and
condoned
by their political fellow-travellers speaks of an exceptionalism and
exclusivity claimed as if by Devine Right by those who see themselves as "first
nation". Indeed, according to the late Sir Ranganui Walker[1], they will
milk
this exceptionalism for all it's worth, in fact to the point where the overall
cost and disruption caused economically and societally becomes unnaturally and
inequitably disproportionate to the minority - and dare I say it, merit - of
those who would impose their far- too-often hokum ways on others.
Further, cultural activism by a minority of the kind under discussion will
always win out over a taken-for-granted cultural apathy among New Zealand's
characteristically fretful majority. So it is, I think, down to the latter to
just stop whining fruitlessly to each other, get off their apathetic butts and
actually get down to devising whatever is required to stem the unchecked
insinuation of a wholly self-serving minority exceptionalism they, the fretful
majority, perceive as a threat to their own cultural values. Moreover, if you
think or even actually believe this government, or any government come to that,
has become your master, then ask yourselves, in a voter-based democracy whose
fault is that?
[1] "The Maori will always have his hand in the white man's pocket". He also
meant this metaphorically."
This from James Christophers who although preferring a different description
appears to not arhue abput what the article is saying.
He does not appear however to accuse anyone of racism. Lobbying for
the interests of a particular group is well known and expected from
many groups - many have achieved special assistance from government as
a result. Maori do of course have some rights arising from the Treaty
of Waitangi; that they have had to fight for that to be recognised -
or for compensation for rights being denied does not change that
situation. Maori was recognised as an Official Language some years ago
- seeking to have it used would not be wrong, but in the examples
given it appears that the use of Maori has been voluntarily initiated
by a number of organisationss. That does not indicate racism on thier
part, rather a willingness to do what is necessary to be relevant to
different groups, and to communicate as well as possible.
Post by Tony
This thread started as a clear attempt to show that there is recism by some of
those that claim the rest of us are racist.
If that was your intention then I believe you have failed to identify
any claim that "the rest of us" (whatever group you were referring to)
are racist. You appear to have been taken in by the fantasies of
Bassett
Post by Tony
I did not and do not suggest that non-Maori people are not racist, plenty
clearly are. The reverse is equally true, and denying it is ridiculous.
How very helpful of you; but it is not clear what relevance that
truism has to this thread, except that you appear to confirm my view
of whether this country is racist . . .
You are incapable of balance or fairness.
The thread was provided in good faith and you have prevaricated and twisted as
so often you do.
Your sarcasm is clearly still in place and dominant.
If you really belive that there is no racism amongst Maori then you are deluded.
Of course there is some racism amopng every largegroup in New Zealand,
but I have not implied that there wasn't. I asked where you saw racism
in the article you referred to; you have been unable to demonstrate
any from Maori. Instead you have refused to address questions and
requests for clarification from you, instead yet again abusing other
posters.
You are a liar. I have abused nobody. You need to show that I have or go away
and face the corner again.
The article shows plenty of abuse, you simply cannot understand it.
Ignore the stupid little shit using the tag Rich80105. He's just a bloody Marxism loving troll!
James Christophers
2021-02-01 21:55:08 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Sun, 31 Jan 2021 18:31:26 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Extraneous detail removed because this thread has now become one of whether
Rich can understand English.
Post by Rich80105
You appear to be avoiding this question, Tony.
What racism by Maori did _you_ see?
Already answered but once more ignored by you.
Originally referenced URL:

tinyurl.com/mhsb28vy

...in which Bassett unequivocally names this country's minority culture racist through his use of the term 'racism' because he views any further inclusion of that culture's tongue within his own cultural space as an unwarranted, even inequitable, intrusion. He thinks he - a white man - should have a part in deciding how much or how little influence from our one indigenous race and its culture should be allowed to impose on his own 100% imported pakeha culture and values. Yes, his complaint may have some validity when it comes to referendums and the like, but he then undermines this in his haste to pillory and demean (arguably a form of racism in its own right). In all this, he forgets that, under statute law, maori is equal in standing to English as one of our two official languages. (In fact, I suspect this is what **really** sticks in his craw.)

Now to the terms 'racist' and 'racism' - two terms where there can be no weaselling or equivocation as to their meaning and intent:

There are many definitions of racism, but they all embrace discriminatory practices among which are exclusion, deprivation, disenfranchisement, cultural elimination/eradication, humiliation and subjection. So, if your and Bassett's argument is to have any legs at all, it is now for you show exactly how and where maori have been guilty of practising - or even threatening - exclusion, deprivation disenfranchisement, cultural eradication, humiliation and subjection of New Zealand's non-maori population. If you can, then you and Bassett may have a point. Otherwise, Bassett's de facto racially biased fulminations and your implicit support of them immediately fall where they stand.

None of the above is to say there is no racism in New Zealand as the interrogative rhetoric of your header suggests. But by choosing Bassett's intemperate fulminations as the one and only platform on which to base your own topic and your own judgements and opinions shows, I think, a grievous lack of sound judgement on your part. Whether unrealised or not, good faith it is not.
Loading...