Fatality rates for COVID vaccination

[Willy Nilly]

Finally someone published something. The American CDC fatality
statistc for COVID vaccination rates is, and I quote,

"Of the more than 92 million doses administered in the US to date,
fewer than 1,700 deaths have been reported."

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9349461/Utah-mother-dies-four-days-receiving-second-dose-Modernas-vaccine.html

By "fewer than 1700", they appear to mean "between 1600 and 1700". So
let's call it 1650 deaths, which from 92,000,000 vaccinations, comes
out to 0.001793% deaths, i.e., 1 death per 55,772 people. If that's
right, then if 5 million New Zealanders are vaccinated, the total
expected death count would be 90.

So we should expect 90 fatalities from the NZ-wide roll-out of the
COVID vaccine. Anyone see anything wrong with this calculation?

[Tony]

Post by Willy Nilly
Finally someone published something. The American CDC fatality
statistc for COVID vaccination rates is, and I quote,
"Of the more than 92 million doses administered in the US to date,
fewer than 1,700 deaths have been reported."
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9349461/Utah-mother-dies-four-days-receiving-second-dose-Modernas-vaccine.html
By "fewer than 1700", they appear to mean "between 1600 and 1700". So
let's call it 1650 deaths, which from 92,000,000 vaccinations, comes
out to 0.001793% deaths, i.e., 1 death per 55,772 people. If that's
right, then if 5 million New Zealanders are vaccinated, the total
expected death count would be 90.
So we should expect 90 fatalities from the NZ-wide roll-out of the
COVID vaccine. Anyone see anything wrong with this calculation?

The question is what did they die from?
The one that you linked to is to have an autopsy. Did the other 1600 odd people
die from the vaccine or something else. Without that knowledge we are all
guessing.
However here are some other figures.

In 2017 (before covid-19) 231,000 people died in the USA each month.
The vaccine has been available in the USA for 3 months according to the USA. So
up to 690,000 people would probably have died of non-covid related reasons in
that 3 month period. Obviously some would probably have been infected.
So 1650 is pretty small in comparison. As I said above it depends whether they
died from the vaccine or something else.

From the CDC
"Over 92 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the United
States from December 14, 2020, through March 8, 2021. During this time, VAERS
received 1,637 reports of death (0.0018%) among people who received a COVID-19
vaccine. CDC and FDA physicians review each case report of death as soon as
notified and CDC requests medical records to further assess reports. A review
of available clinical information including death certificates, autopsy, and
medical records revealed no evidence that vaccination contributed to patient
deaths. CDC and FDA will continue to investigate reports of adverse events,
including deaths, reported to VAERS."
In bold was this "A review of available clinical information including death
certificates, autopsy, and medical records revealed no evidence that
vaccination contributed to patient deaths".
This from
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/adverse-events.html
updated 9 March 2021.

So the CDC do not yet know how many, if any, died from the vaccine. Of course
they could be spinning lies but I doubt it.

[James Christophers]

Post by Tony

Finally someone published something. The American CDC fatality
statistc for COVID vaccination rates is, and I quote,
"Of the more than 92 million doses administered in the US to date,
fewer than 1,700 deaths have been reported."
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9349461/Utah-mother-dies-four-days-receiving-second-dose-Modernas-vaccine.html
By "fewer than 1700", they appear to mean "between 1600 and 1700". So
let's call it 1650 deaths, which from 92,000,000 vaccinations, comes
out to 0.001793% deaths, i.e., 1 death per 55,772 people. If that's
right, then if 5 million New Zealanders are vaccinated, the total
expected death count would be 90.
So we should expect 90 fatalities from the NZ-wide roll-out of the
COVID vaccine. Anyone see anything wrong with this calculation?

The question is what did they die from?
The one that you linked to is to have an autopsy. Did the other 1600 odd people
die from the vaccine or something else. Without that knowledge we are all
guessing.
However here are some other figures.
In 2017 (before covid-19) 231,000 people died in the USA each month.
The vaccine has been available in the USA for 3 months according to the USA. So
up to 690,000 people would probably have died of non-covid related reasons in
that 3 month period. Obviously some would probably have been infected.
So 1650 is pretty small in comparison. As I said above it depends whether they
died from the vaccine or something else.
From the CDC
"Over 92 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the United
States from December 14, 2020, through March 8, 2021. During this time, VAERS
received 1,637 reports of death (0.0018%) among people who received a COVID-19
vaccine. CDC and FDA physicians review each case report of death as soon as
notified and CDC requests medical records to further assess reports. A review
of available clinical information including death certificates, autopsy, and
medical records revealed no evidence that vaccination contributed to patient
deaths. CDC and FDA will continue to investigate reports of adverse events,
including deaths, reported to VAERS."
In bold was this "A review of available clinical information including death
certificates, autopsy, and medical records revealed no evidence that
vaccination contributed to patient deaths".
This from
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/adverse-events.html
updated 9 March 2021.
So the CDC do not yet know how many, if any, died from the vaccine. Of course
they could be spinning lies but I doubt it.

Perhaps worth considering that, in terms of risk, "in 1980 - 40 years ago - the World Health Assembly declared smallpox eradicated (eliminated), and no cases of naturally occurring smallpox have happened since." But during the decades during which routine immunisation had been occurring:

"There were 68 deaths in the United States from complications of smallpox vaccination in the nine years 1959 to 1966, and 1968; 19 were associated with vaccinia necrosum, 36 were caused by postvaccinial encephalitis, 12 by eczema vaccinatum, and 1 by Stevens-Johnson syndrome. Of the 68 who died, 24 were infants, although only 12% of all primary vaccinations are given to this age group."

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/article-abstract/353655

I'd also have thought that before assuming any modern-day equivalence between the two scenarios, one should allow for the great advances made in science in general and in virology and immunology in particular since 1980.

[John Bowes]

Finally someone published something. The American CDC fatality
statistc for COVID vaccination rates is, and I quote,
"Of the more than 92 million doses administered in the US to date,
fewer than 1,700 deaths have been reported."
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9349461/Utah-mother-dies-four-days-receiving-second-dose-Modernas-vaccine.html
By "fewer than 1700", they appear to mean "between 1600 and 1700". So
let's call it 1650 deaths, which from 92,000,000 vaccinations, comes
out to 0.001793% deaths, i.e., 1 death per 55,772 people. If that's
right, then if 5 million New Zealanders are vaccinated, the total
expected death count would be 90.
So we should expect 90 fatalities from the NZ-wide roll-out of the
COVID vaccine. Anyone see anything wrong with this calculation?

Questioned my Dr. today about the vaccine and whether it was going to be an ongoing thing like the flu vaccine. She told me they don't know as they're learning new data about covid 19 on an almost daily basis. King of makes the governments glowing reports seem like just more bullshit from a bunch of very experienced bullshit artists! So much for an open and transparent government!

[James Christophers]

Post by John Bowes

Finally someone published something. The American CDC fatality
statistc for COVID vaccination rates is, and I quote,
"Of the more than 92 million doses administered in the US to date,
fewer than 1,700 deaths have been reported."
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9349461/Utah-mother-dies-four-days-receiving-second-dose-Modernas-vaccine.html
By "fewer than 1700", they appear to mean "between 1600 and 1700". So
let's call it 1650 deaths, which from 92,000,000 vaccinations, comes
out to 0.001793% deaths, i.e., 1 death per 55,772 people. If that's
right, then if 5 million New Zealanders are vaccinated, the total
expected death count would be 90.
So we should expect 90 fatalities from the NZ-wide roll-out of the
COVID vaccine. Anyone see anything wrong with this calculation?

Questioned my Dr. today about the vaccine and whether it was going to be an ongoing thing like the flu vaccine. She told me they don't know as they're learning new data about covid 19 on an almost daily basis. King of makes the governments glowing reports seem like just more bullshit from a bunch of very experienced bullshit artists! So much for an open and transparent government!

But how "open"? How "transparent"? No government can ever convincingly say since, in political terms, both are acknowledged as convenient abstractions within its general sales pitch, all of which only the fool takes at face value.

Therefore, judging the degree of openness and transparency is down to the fool's perception - perception in the case of politics being subject to the fool's own prejudice(s).

[John Bowes]

Post by John Bowes

Finally someone published something. The American CDC fatality
statistc for COVID vaccination rates is, and I quote,
"Of the more than 92 million doses administered in the US to date,
fewer than 1,700 deaths have been reported."
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9349461/Utah-mother-dies-four-days-receiving-second-dose-Modernas-vaccine.html
By "fewer than 1700", they appear to mean "between 1600 and 1700". So
let's call it 1650 deaths, which from 92,000,000 vaccinations, comes
out to 0.001793% deaths, i.e., 1 death per 55,772 people. If that's
right, then if 5 million New Zealanders are vaccinated, the total
expected death count would be 90.
So we should expect 90 fatalities from the NZ-wide roll-out of the
COVID vaccine. Anyone see anything wrong with this calculation?

Questioned my Dr. today about the vaccine and whether it was going to be an ongoing thing like the flu vaccine. She told me they don't know as they're learning new data about covid 19 on an almost daily basis. King of makes the governments glowing reports seem like just more bullshit from a bunch of very experienced bullshit artists! So much for an open and transparent government!

But how "open"? How "transparent"? No government can ever convincingly say since, in political terms, both are acknowledged as convenient abstractions within its general sales pitch, all of which only the fool takes at face value.
Therefore, judging the degree of openness and transparency is down to the fool's perception - perception in the case of politics being subject to the fool's own prejudice(s).

You can filibuster as long as you like Keith. Ardern has failed miserably with that promise and you bloody well know it!

[James Christophers]

Post by John Bowes

Post by John Bowes

Finally someone published something. The American CDC fatality
statistc for COVID vaccination rates is, and I quote,
"Of the more than 92 million doses administered in the US to date,
fewer than 1,700 deaths have been reported."
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9349461/Utah-mother-dies-four-days-receiving-second-dose-Modernas-vaccine.html
By "fewer than 1700", they appear to mean "between 1600 and 1700". So
let's call it 1650 deaths, which from 92,000,000 vaccinations, comes
out to 0.001793% deaths, i.e., 1 death per 55,772 people. If that's
right, then if 5 million New Zealanders are vaccinated, the total
expected death count would be 90.
So we should expect 90 fatalities from the NZ-wide roll-out of the
COVID vaccine. Anyone see anything wrong with this calculation?

Questioned my Dr. today about the vaccine and whether it was going to be an ongoing thing like the flu vaccine. She told me they don't know as they're learning new data about covid 19 on an almost daily basis. King of makes the governments glowing reports seem like just more bullshit from a bunch of very experienced bullshit artists! So much for an open and transparent government!

But how "open"? How "transparent"? No government can ever convincingly say since, in political terms, both are acknowledged as convenient abstractions within its general sales pitch, all of which only the fool takes at face value.
Therefore, judging the degree of openness and transparency is down to the fool's perception - perception in the case of politics being subject to the fool's own prejudice(s).

You can filibuster as long as you like Keith. Ardern has failed miserably with that promise and you bloody well know it!

From my point of view, Ardern has been delivering not according to what has sometimes plainly been too exuberantly promised but according to my own more seasoned and mature expectations. Such expectations have always been informed both by previous governments' histories and present-day global and in-country economic facts of life, and my early perceptions of Ardern & Co since before they took the Treasury benches in late 2017.

So I have no cause for disappointment when failures occur, just as I have no cause to give anything more enthusiastic than a nod of approval whenever the current government's initiatives prove successful.

[John Bowes]

Post by James Christophers

Post by John Bowes

Post by John Bowes

Finally someone published something. The American CDC fatality
statistc for COVID vaccination rates is, and I quote,
"Of the more than 92 million doses administered in the US to date,
fewer than 1,700 deaths have been reported."
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9349461/Utah-mother-dies-four-days-receiving-second-dose-Modernas-vaccine.html
By "fewer than 1700", they appear to mean "between 1600 and 1700". So
let's call it 1650 deaths, which from 92,000,000 vaccinations, comes
out to 0.001793% deaths, i.e., 1 death per 55,772 people. If that's
right, then if 5 million New Zealanders are vaccinated, the total
expected death count would be 90.
So we should expect 90 fatalities from the NZ-wide roll-out of the
COVID vaccine. Anyone see anything wrong with this calculation?

Questioned my Dr. today about the vaccine and whether it was going to be an ongoing thing like the flu vaccine. She told me they don't know as they're learning new data about covid 19 on an almost daily basis. King of makes the governments glowing reports seem like just more bullshit from a bunch of very experienced bullshit artists! So much for an open and transparent government!

But how "open"? How "transparent"? No government can ever convincingly say since, in political terms, both are acknowledged as convenient abstractions within its general sales pitch, all of which only the fool takes at face value.
Therefore, judging the degree of openness and transparency is down to the fool's perception - perception in the case of politics being subject to the fool's own prejudice(s).

You can filibuster as long as you like Keith. Ardern has failed miserably with that promise and you bloody well know it!

From my point of view, Ardern has been delivering not according to what has sometimes plainly been too exuberantly promised but according to my own more seasoned and mature expectations. Such expectations have always been informed both by previous governments' histories and present-day global and in-country economic facts of life, and my early perceptions of Ardern & Co since before they took the Treasury benches in late 2017.
So I have no cause for disappointment when failures occur, just as I have no cause to give anything more enthusiastic than a nod of approval whenever the current government's initiatives prove successful.

I go by performance and the performance of the government has been anything but good. I'm glad we have a MoH that can perform and doesn't rely on photo ops and bullshit to hide the rusty hulk it supports!
btw seasoned and mature? You know you're joking there Keith as do most in this ng :)

[George Black]

Post by John Bowes
I go by performance and the performance of the government has been anything but good. I'm glad we have a MoH that can perform and doesn't rely on photo ops and bullshit to hide the rusty hulk it supports!
btw seasoned and mature? You know you're joking there Keith as do most in this ng :)

On fatality rates any-one noticed how the US figures have not been
reported for some time ...
Has the death of covid victims become a Page 12 or have they decreased?

[James Christophers]

On (Covid-19) fatality rates any-one noticed how the US figures have not been
reported for some time ...

Why would they when reports are being updated daily? Rates are decreasing except for parts of the East Coast where they have plateaued. To date, approx 35 million have been vaccinated.

March 12:
Total cases: 29,373,903
Total new cases: 64,177
Total deaths: 532,058

[A.B.]

Post by George Black
On fatality rates any-one noticed how the US figures have not been
reported for some time ...

An average of around 1,500 deaths per day at the moment.
If you don't know, it's your own fault.

Hopefully, daily deaths will decrease with vaccination progressing.

Post by George Black
Has the death of covid victims become a Page 12 or have they decreased?

It was news within the past month, when the US total covid victims
crossed the half-million mark. It will be news again if and when
another significant mark is crossed.

[George Black]

Post by A.B.

Post by George Black
On fatality rates any-one noticed how the US figures have not been
reported for some time ...

An average of around 1,500 deaths per day at the moment.
If you don't know, it's your own fault.

If you were not aware of it I was reporting on the media and how last
weeks "We're all going to die" didn't eventuate

[Rich80105]

Post by George Black

Post by A.B.

Post by George Black
On fatality rates any-one noticed how the US figures have not been
reported for some time ...

An average of around 1,500 deaths per day at the moment.
If you don't know, it's your own fault.

If you were not aware of it I was reporting on the media and how last
weeks "We're all going to die" didn't eventuate

Thanks George - I don't recall that media report - do you have a url?

There are a number of pages giving daly results; I have used the
following in the past:
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries
From that page this morning, sorting by Deaths / 1M pop (lowest at
top) shows New Zealand at row 34 out of 221 (or excluding the cruise
ships, 32 out of 219 countries, with 19 experiencing no deaths at all,
and China with lower deaths per million population than New Zealand

[John Bowes]

Post by Rich80105

Post by A.B.

Post by George Black
On fatality rates any-one noticed how the US figures have not been
reported for some time ...

An average of around 1,500 deaths per day at the moment.
If you don't know, it's your own fault.

If you were not aware of it I was reporting on the media and how last
weeks "We're all going to die" didn't eventuate

Thanks George - I don't recall that media report - do you have a url?
There are a number of pages giving daly results; I have used the
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries
From that page this morning, sorting by Deaths / 1M pop (lowest at
top) shows New Zealand at row 34 out of 221 (or excluding the cruise
ships, 32 out of 219 countries, with 19 experiencing no deaths at all,
and China with lower deaths per million population than New Zealand

The data from China is about as believable as most of your posts Rich :)

[James Christophers]

Post by Rich80105

Post by A.B.

Post by George Black
On fatality rates any-one noticed how the US figures have not been
reported for some time ...

An average of around 1,500 deaths per day at the moment.
If you don't know, it's your own fault.

If you were not aware of it I was reporting on the media and how last
weeks "We're all going to die" didn't eventuate

Thanks George - I don't recall that media report - do you have a url?
There are a number of pages giving daly results; I have used the
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries
From that page this morning, sorting by Deaths / 1M pop (lowest at
top) shows New Zealand at row 34 out of 221 (or excluding the cruise
ships, 32 out of 219 countries, with 19 experiencing no deaths at all,
and China with lower deaths per million population than New Zealand

Reminder: The accuracy of such data relies on the systems and methods of recording and calculation and how each government then treats and decides to publish it. Then we have "dying of..." and/or "dying with..."

[Rich80105]

On Sun, 14 Mar 2021 14:24:07 -0700 (PDT), James Christophers

Post by James Christophers

Post by Rich80105

Post by A.B.

Post by George Black
On fatality rates any-one noticed how the US figures have not been
reported for some time ...

An average of around 1,500 deaths per day at the moment.
If you don't know, it's your own fault.

If you were not aware of it I was reporting on the media and how last
weeks "We're all going to die" didn't eventuate

Thanks George - I don't recall that media report - do you have a url?
There are a number of pages giving daly results; I have used the
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries
From that page this morning, sorting by Deaths / 1M pop (lowest at
top) shows New Zealand at row 34 out of 221 (or excluding the cruise
ships, 32 out of 219 countries, with 19 experiencing no deaths at all,
and China with lower deaths per million population than New Zealand

Reminder: The accuracy of such data relies on the systems and methods of recording and calculation and how each government then treats and decides to publish it. Then we have "dying of..." and/or "dying with..."

I agree, although I think there was a brief period when statistics
were not recorded from one country until it was confirmed that they
were following the guidelines for recording agreed by the WHO. There
is a lot of talk about China as if they are untrustworthy - they share
that distrust by outsiders with a number of other countries. I have a
friend who was in Wuhan Province when the outbreak occurred; he was
stick for months living through the actions they took; he was unable
to get to the flight organised by New Zealand to repatriate a lot of
New Zealanders as he was too far from the relevant airport. He and his
wife were restricted to an apartment for much of that time - initially
they were required to use masks whenever outside the apartment, but
allowed to shop for groceries. A short time later they were tested for
termperature at checkpoints at each intersection; then they were
restricted to their block - they could order groceries using "guards"
who delivered to their apartment, then they were restricted to their
apartment; one mother took a child down to a vacant yard to play with
a ball; chains were put across all doors - until it was pointed out
that this would be a disaster in the event of fire. Their lockdown
was eventually successful, and restrictions on personal travel left
many areas of China as isolated from the disease as many parts of New
Zealand. The key to the statistic is that they have a very large
population; the measure for the Wuhan province would be much lower in
the list.

I do not think there is any incentive for the Chinese government not
to accurately record their experience. Certainly there are other areas
of the world where it is possible that many deaths were not recorded
at all, and bodies disposed of en masse without any investigation to
confirm that they were due to covid. Such incidents may be rare, only
occur in isolated parts of a country, but they would affect
statistics.

[John Bowes]

Post by James Christophers

Post by Rich80105

Post by A.B.

Post by George Black
On fatality rates any-one noticed how the US figures have not been
reported for some time ...

An average of around 1,500 deaths per day at the moment.
If you don't know, it's your own fault.

If you were not aware of it I was reporting on the media and how last
weeks "We're all going to die" didn't eventuate

Thanks George - I don't recall that media report - do you have a url?
There are a number of pages giving daly results; I have used the
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries
From that page this morning, sorting by Deaths / 1M pop (lowest at
top) shows New Zealand at row 34 out of 221 (or excluding the cruise
ships, 32 out of 219 countries, with 19 experiencing no deaths at all,
and China with lower deaths per million population than New Zealand

Reminder: The accuracy of such data relies on the systems and methods of recording and calculation and how each government then treats and decides to publish it. Then we have "dying of..." and/or "dying with..."

Meanwhile they learn more about the virus almost every day. Information supplied me by someone who knows far more about it than you'll ever know Keith. And you fucking well know it!

[James Christophers]

Post by John Bowes

Post by James Christophers

Post by Rich80105

Post by A.B.

Post by George Black
On fatality rates any-one noticed how the US figures have not been
reported for some time ...

An average of around 1,500 deaths per day at the moment.
If you don't know, it's your own fault.

If you were not aware of it I was reporting on the media and how last
weeks "We're all going to die" didn't eventuate

Thanks George - I don't recall that media report - do you have a url?
There are a number of pages giving daly results; I have used the
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries
From that page this morning, sorting by Deaths / 1M pop (lowest at
top) shows New Zealand at row 34 out of 221 (or excluding the cruise
ships, 32 out of 219 countries, with 19 experiencing no deaths at all,
and China with lower deaths per million population than New Zealand

Reminder: The accuracy of such data relies on the systems and methods of recording and calculation and how each government then treats and decides to publish it. T

hen we have "dying of..." and/or "dying with..."

Post by John Bowes
Meanwhile they learn more about the virus almost every day.

Which is precisely what I have just previously told you, but here it is again:

In a never-before-experienced pandemic that's also so fluid and changeable, governments' and health professionals' expectations are largely governed by realism - the known, the possible and the probable - but all based on the always incomplete knowledge and experience gained, so to speak, "on the hoof". The other factor - and it is significant - is the degree to which a population will comply with whatever the pandemic response team advises without the government needing to impose draconian laws that restrict freedoms, including yours.

So far, then, you're doing pretty well out of it.

Post by John Bowes
Information supplied me by someone who knows far more about it than you'll ever know...

...or you for that matter. Quite so, the whle shebang learned by Ardern's government and its agencies, all of it giving the lie to your meanspirited castigations of these very same folk who so tirelessly and thanklessly serve the whingeing, undeserving likes of you.

Go boil your head.

[John Bowes]

Post by James Christophers

Post by John Bowes

Post by James Christophers

Post by Rich80105

Post by A.B.

Post by George Black
On fatality rates any-one noticed how the US figures have not been
reported for some time ...

An average of around 1,500 deaths per day at the moment.
If you don't know, it's your own fault.

If you were not aware of it I was reporting on the media and how last
weeks "We're all going to die" didn't eventuate

Thanks George - I don't recall that media report - do you have a url?
There are a number of pages giving daly results; I have used the
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries
From that page this morning, sorting by Deaths / 1M pop (lowest at
top) shows New Zealand at row 34 out of 221 (or excluding the cruise
ships, 32 out of 219 countries, with 19 experiencing no deaths at all,
and China with lower deaths per million population than New Zealand

Reminder: The accuracy of such data relies on the systems and methods of recording and calculation and how each government then treats and decides to publish it. T

hen we have "dying of..." and/or "dying with..."

Post by John Bowes
Meanwhile they learn more about the virus almost every day.

In a never-before-experienced pandemic that's also so fluid and changeable, governments' and health professionals' expectations are largely governed by realism - the known, the possible and the probable - but all based on the always incomplete knowledge and experience gained, so to speak, "on the hoof". The other factor - and it is significant - is the degree to which a population will comply with whatever the pandemic response team advises without the government needing to impose draconian laws that restrict freedoms, including yours.
So far, then, you're doing pretty well out of it.

Post by John Bowes
Information supplied me by someone who knows far more about it than you'll ever know...

...or you for that matter. Quite so, the whle shebang learned by Ardern's government and its agencies, all of it giving the lie to your meanspirited castigations of these very same folk who so tirelessly and thanklessly serve the whingeing, undeserving likes of you.
Go boil your head.

After you Keith. A totally unnecessary load of old cobblers Keith as you well know. It added nothing to the discussion and was only any good for building your already overblown opinion of your own genius. Problem is that was only in what passes for your mind!

[Rich80105]

On Sun, 14 Mar 2021 23:29:50 -0700 (PDT), John Bowes

Post by John Bowes

Post by James Christophers

Post by John Bowes

Post by James Christophers

Post by Rich80105

Post by A.B.

Post by George Black
On fatality rates any-one noticed how the US figures have not been
reported for some time ...

An average of around 1,500 deaths per day at the moment.
If you don't know, it's your own fault.

If you were not aware of it I was reporting on the media and how last
weeks "We're all going to die" didn't eventuate

Thanks George - I don't recall that media report - do you have a url?
There are a number of pages giving daly results; I have used the
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries
From that page this morning, sorting by Deaths / 1M pop (lowest at
top) shows New Zealand at row 34 out of 221 (or excluding the cruise
ships, 32 out of 219 countries, with 19 experiencing no deaths at all,
and China with lower deaths per million population than New Zealand

Reminder: The accuracy of such data relies on the systems and methods of recording and calculation and how each government then treats and decides to publish it. T

hen we have "dying of..." and/or "dying with..."

Post by John Bowes
Meanwhile they learn more about the virus almost every day.

In a never-before-experienced pandemic that's also so fluid and changeable, governments' and health professionals' expectations are largely governed by realism - the known, the possible and the probable - but all based on the always incomplete knowledge and experience gained, so to speak, "on the hoof". The other factor - and it is significant - is the degree to which a population will comply with whatever the pandemic response team advises without the government needing to impose draconian laws that restrict freedoms, including yours.
So far, then, you're doing pretty well out of it.

Post by John Bowes
Information supplied me by someone who knows far more about it than you'll ever know...

...or you for that matter. Quite so, the whle shebang learned by Ardern's government and its agencies, all of it giving the lie to your meanspirited castigations of these very same folk who so tirelessly and thanklessly serve the whingeing, undeserving likes of you.
Go boil your head.

After you Keith. A totally unnecessary load of old cobblers Keith as you well know. It added nothing to the discussion and was only any good for building your already overblown opinion of your own genius. Problem is that was only in what passes for your mind!

Your self description deserves a reward, John - go and buy yourself
one of these:
https://minifigs.me/products/jacinda-ardern-custom-design-minifigure

[John Bowes]

Post by Rich80105
On Sun, 14 Mar 2021 23:29:50 -0700 (PDT), John Bowes

Post by John Bowes

Post by James Christophers

Post by John Bowes

Post by James Christophers

Post by Rich80105

Post by A.B.

Post by George Black
On fatality rates any-one noticed how the US figures have not been
reported for some time ...

An average of around 1,500 deaths per day at the moment.
If you don't know, it's your own fault.

If you were not aware of it I was reporting on the media and how last
weeks "We're all going to die" didn't eventuate

Thanks George - I don't recall that media report - do you have a url?
There are a number of pages giving daly results; I have used the
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries
From that page this morning, sorting by Deaths / 1M pop (lowest at
top) shows New Zealand at row 34 out of 221 (or excluding the cruise
ships, 32 out of 219 countries, with 19 experiencing no deaths at all,
and China with lower deaths per million population than New Zealand

Reminder: The accuracy of such data relies on the systems and methods of recording and calculation and how each government then treats and decides to publish it. T

hen we have "dying of..." and/or "dying with..."

Post by John Bowes
Meanwhile they learn more about the virus almost every day.

In a never-before-experienced pandemic that's also so fluid and changeable, governments' and health professionals' expectations are largely governed by realism - the known, the possible and the probable - but all based on the always incomplete knowledge and experience gained, so to speak, "on the hoof". The other factor - and it is significant - is the degree to which a population will comply with whatever the pandemic response team advises without the government needing to impose draconian laws that restrict freedoms, including yours.
So far, then, you're doing pretty well out of it.

Post by John Bowes
Information supplied me by someone who knows far more about it than you'll ever know...

...or you for that matter. Quite so, the whle shebang learned by Ardern's government and its agencies, all of it giving the lie to your meanspirited castigations of these very same folk who so tirelessly and thanklessly serve the whingeing, undeserving likes of you.
Go boil your head.

After you Keith. A totally unnecessary load of old cobblers Keith as you well know. It added nothing to the discussion and was only any good for building your already overblown opinion of your own genius. Problem is that was only in what passes for your mind!

Your self description deserves a reward, John - go and buy yourself
https://minifigs.me/products/jacinda-ardern-custom-design-minifigure

I'm getting a dozen Rich. I'll hang them all over town by the neck :)
btw as usual your a week behind the times just like your glorious leader :)

[John Bowes]

Post by Rich80105
On Sun, 14 Mar 2021 23:29:50 -0700 (PDT), John Bowes

Post by John Bowes

Post by James Christophers

Post by John Bowes

Post by James Christophers

Post by Rich80105

Post by A.B.

Post by George Black
On fatality rates any-one noticed how the US figures have not been
reported for some time ...

An average of around 1,500 deaths per day at the moment.
If you don't know, it's your own fault.

If you were not aware of it I was reporting on the media and how last
weeks "We're all going to die" didn't eventuate

Thanks George - I don't recall that media report - do you have a url?
There are a number of pages giving daly results; I have used the
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries
From that page this morning, sorting by Deaths / 1M pop (lowest at
top) shows New Zealand at row 34 out of 221 (or excluding the cruise
ships, 32 out of 219 countries, with 19 experiencing no deaths at all,
and China with lower deaths per million population than New Zealand

Reminder: The accuracy of such data relies on the systems and methods of recording and calculation and how each government then treats and decides to publish it. T

hen we have "dying of..." and/or "dying with..."

Post by John Bowes
Meanwhile they learn more about the virus almost every day.

In a never-before-experienced pandemic that's also so fluid and changeable, governments' and health professionals' expectations are largely governed by realism - the known, the possible and the probable - but all based on the always incomplete knowledge and experience gained, so to speak, "on the hoof". The other factor - and it is significant - is the degree to which a population will comply with whatever the pandemic response team advises without the government needing to impose draconian laws that restrict freedoms, including yours.
So far, then, you're doing pretty well out of it.

Post by John Bowes
Information supplied me by someone who knows far more about it than you'll ever know...

...or you for that matter. Quite so, the whle shebang learned by Ardern's government and its agencies, all of it giving the lie to your meanspirited castigations of these very same folk who so tirelessly and thanklessly serve the whingeing, undeserving likes of you.
Go boil your head.

After you Keith. A totally unnecessary load of old cobblers Keith as you well know. It added nothing to the discussion and was only any good for building your already overblown opinion of your own genius. Problem is that was only in what passes for your mind!

Your self description deserves a reward, John - go and buy yourself
https://minifigs.me/products/jacinda-ardern-custom-design-minifigure

You and Keith need one of these Rich: https://www.mightyape.co.nz/product/crockpot-express-crock-multi-cooker/30904991?rrec=true so you can both boil your heads. Though this one should be big enough to both of you AND your glorious leaders head at the same time :)

[Nellie the Elephant]

Post by Rich80105
On Sun, 14 Mar 2021 23:29:50 -0700 (PDT), John Bowes

Post by John Bowes

Post by James Christophers

Post by John Bowes

Post by James Christophers

Post by Rich80105

Post by A.B.

Post by George Black
On fatality rates any-one noticed how the US figures have not been
reported for some time ...

An average of around 1,500 deaths per day at the moment.
If you don't know, it's your own fault.

If you were not aware of it I was reporting on the media and how last
weeks "We're all going to die" didn't eventuate

Thanks George - I don't recall that media report - do you have a url?
There are a number of pages giving daly results; I have used the
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries
From that page this morning, sorting by Deaths / 1M pop (lowest at
top) shows New Zealand at row 34 out of 221 (or excluding the cruise
ships, 32 out of 219 countries, with 19 experiencing no deaths at all,
and China with lower deaths per million population than New Zealand

Reminder: The accuracy of such data relies on the systems and methods of recording and calculation and how each government then treats and decides to publish it. T

hen we have "dying of..." and/or "dying with..."

Post by John Bowes
Meanwhile they learn more about the virus almost every day.

In a never-before-experienced pandemic that's also so fluid and changeable, governments' and health professionals' expectations are largely governed by realism - the known, the possible and the probable - but all based on the always incomplete knowledge and experience gained, so to speak, "on the hoof". The other factor - and it is significant - is the degree to which a population will comply with whatever the pandemic response team advises without the government needing to impose draconian laws that restrict freedoms, including yours.
So far, then, you're doing pretty well out of it.

Post by John Bowes
Information supplied me by someone who knows far more about it than you'll ever know...

...or you for that matter. Quite so, the whle shebang learned by Ardern's government and its agencies, all of it giving the lie to your meanspirited castigations of these very same folk who so tirelessly and thanklessly serve the whingeing, undeserving likes of you.
Go boil your head.

After you Keith. A totally unnecessary load of old cobblers Keith as you well know. It added nothing to the discussion and was only any good for building your already overblown opinion of your own genius. Problem is that was only in what passes for your mind!

Your self description deserves a reward, John - go and buy yourself
https://minifigs.me/products/jacinda-ardern-custom-design-minifigure

John is very direct and always says what he means in an in-your-face
way.
You are however a bully and use sarcasm as a tactic.
I know what I prefer.

[Firu]

Post by Nellie the Elephant

Post by Rich80105
Your self description deserves a reward, John - go and buy yourself
https://minifigs.me/products/jacinda-ardern-custom-design-minifigure

John is very direct and always says what he means in an in-your-face
way.
You are however a bully and use sarcasm as a tactic.
I know what I prefer.

LOL.

Theres nothing to choose between an agressive name calling bully
and a sarcastic bully.

I disagree with both on principal.
(yeah, I do have a few left ;-) )

[Gordon]

Post by Firu

Post by Nellie the Elephant

Post by Rich80105
Your self description deserves a reward, John - go and buy yourself
https://minifigs.me/products/jacinda-ardern-custom-design-minifigure

John is very direct and always says what he means in an in-your-face
way.
You are however a bully and use sarcasm as a tactic.
I know what I prefer.

LOL.
Theres nothing to choose between an agressive name calling bully
and a sarcastic bully.
I disagree with both on principal.
(yeah, I do have a few left ;-) )

Principle I think.

[Firu]

Post by Gordon

Post by Firu

Post by Nellie the Elephant

Post by Rich80105
Your self description deserves a reward, John - go and buy yourself
https://minifigs.me/products/jacinda-ardern-custom-design-minifigure

John is very direct and always says what he means in an in-your-face
way.
You are however a bully and use sarcasm as a tactic.
I know what I prefer.

LOL.
Theres nothing to choose between an agressive name calling bully
and a sarcastic bully.
I disagree with both on principal.
(yeah, I do have a few left ;-) )

Principle I think.

And you think right ;-)

My only excuse is, being too tired/too distracted/too fed up/lack of
spillchucker.

Last bloody week of nights! (Also last week of paid work.)

[Rich80105]

On Thu, 11 Mar 2021 23:26:54 -0800 (PST), John Bowes

Post by John Bowes

Post by John Bowes

Finally someone published something. The American CDC fatality
statistc for COVID vaccination rates is, and I quote,
"Of the more than 92 million doses administered in the US to date,
fewer than 1,700 deaths have been reported."
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9349461/Utah-mother-dies-four-days-receiving-second-dose-Modernas-vaccine.html
By "fewer than 1700", they appear to mean "between 1600 and 1700". So
let's call it 1650 deaths, which from 92,000,000 vaccinations, comes
out to 0.001793% deaths, i.e., 1 death per 55,772 people. If that's
right, then if 5 million New Zealanders are vaccinated, the total
expected death count would be 90.
So we should expect 90 fatalities from the NZ-wide roll-out of the
COVID vaccine. Anyone see anything wrong with this calculation?

Questioned my Dr. today about the vaccine and whether it was going to be an ongoing thing like the flu vaccine. She told me they don't know as they're learning new data about covid 19 on an almost daily basis. King of makes the governments glowing reports seem like just more bullshit from a bunch of very experienced bullshit artists! So much for an open and transparent government!

So when your doctor tells you that we are learning new data about
Covid on an almost daily basis, you blame the government? If you aske
your doctor when you were going to die and your doctor says there is
insufficient data, would you blame the governmetn for that too?

Post by John Bowes

But how "open"? How "transparent"? No government can ever convincingly say since, in political terms, both are acknowledged as convenient abstractions within its general sales pitch, all of which only the fool takes at face value.
Therefore, judging the degree of openness and transparency is down to the fool's perception - perception in the case of politics being subject to the fool's own prejudice(s).

You can filibuster as long as you like Keith. Ardern has failed miserably with that promise and you bloody well know it!

[John Bowes]

Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 11 Mar 2021 23:26:54 -0800 (PST), John Bowes

Post by John Bowes

Finally someone published something. The American CDC fatality
statistc for COVID vaccination rates is, and I quote,
"Of the more than 92 million doses administered in the US to date,
fewer than 1,700 deaths have been reported."
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9349461/Utah-mother-dies-four-days-receiving-second-dose-Modernas-vaccine.html
By "fewer than 1700", they appear to mean "between 1600 and 1700". So
let's call it 1650 deaths, which from 92,000,000 vaccinations, comes
out to 0.001793% deaths, i.e., 1 death per 55,772 people. If that's
right, then if 5 million New Zealanders are vaccinated, the total
expected death count would be 90.
So we should expect 90 fatalities from the NZ-wide roll-out of the
COVID vaccine. Anyone see anything wrong with this calculation?

Questioned my Dr. today about the vaccine and whether it was going to be an ongoing thing like the flu vaccine. She told me they don't know as they're learning new data about covid 19 on an almost daily basis. King of makes the governments glowing reports seem like just more bullshit from a bunch of very experienced bullshit artists! So much for an open and transparent government!

So when your doctor tells you that we are learning new data about
Covid on an almost daily basis, you blame the government? If you aske
your doctor when you were going to die and your doctor says there is
insufficient data, would you blame the governmetn for that too?

Yes Rich. Because the government or governmtn if you prefer, has been pretty dodgy when it comes to openness and telling us what we need to know.
Are you suggesting a health professional knows less about covid than the government? Do stop being an absolute fucking cretin and get some comprehension skills you Marxist moron!

[Rich80105]

On Sun, 14 Mar 2021 01:54:10 -0800 (PST), John Bowes

Post by John Bowes

Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 11 Mar 2021 23:26:54 -0800 (PST), John Bowes

Post by John Bowes

Finally someone published something. The American CDC fatality
statistc for COVID vaccination rates is, and I quote,
"Of the more than 92 million doses administered in the US to date,
fewer than 1,700 deaths have been reported."
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9349461/Utah-mother-dies-four-days-receiving-second-dose-Modernas-vaccine.html
By "fewer than 1700", they appear to mean "between 1600 and 1700". So
let's call it 1650 deaths, which from 92,000,000 vaccinations, comes
out to 0.001793% deaths, i.e., 1 death per 55,772 people. If that's
right, then if 5 million New Zealanders are vaccinated, the total
expected death count would be 90.
So we should expect 90 fatalities from the NZ-wide roll-out of the
COVID vaccine. Anyone see anything wrong with this calculation?

Questioned my Dr. today about the vaccine and whether it was going to be an ongoing thing like the flu vaccine. She told me they don't know as they're learning new data about covid 19 on an almost daily basis. King of makes the governments glowing reports seem like just more bullshit from a bunch of very experienced bullshit artists! So much for an open and transparent government!

So when your doctor tells you that we are learning new data about
Covid on an almost daily basis, you blame the government? If you aske
your doctor when you were going to die and your doctor says there is
insufficient data, would you blame the governmetn for that too?

Yes Rich. Because the government or governmtn if you prefer, has been pretty dodgy when it comes to openness and telling us what we need to know.

What is it you think they know that they are not telling us, John
Bowes? As far as I am aware your Dr. told you exactly what the
government knows. King of makes your statement just more bullshit from
a well known artist - they are not hiding information from you; they
do not know when you are going to die; they do not even know what you
had for breakfast yesterday! Nobody knows whether the vaccines will
be ongoing like the flu vaccine, but given the new variants, it is
certainly possible that there will need to be regular vaccines. The
only people being dodgy are those that want to find fault where there
is none . . .

Post by John Bowes
Are you suggesting a health professional knows less about covid than the government? Do stop being an absolute fucking cretin and get some comprehension skills you Marxist moron!

Certainly health professionals are being kept well informed, but the
government will be getting information from a variety of sources - for
example we know that the Malaghan Institute is doing some research -
see https://www.malaghan.org.nz/infectious-diseases/covid-19/ and
https://www.malaghan.org.nz/assets/Uploads/Documents/Scope/MIMR-Scope-71-7.0-web-pages.pdf
or
https://www.malaghan.org.nz/news/new-zealands-science-led-response-key-to-its-covid-19-success-2/
and
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-52344299

but I do not expect that many are aware of the detail of the work that
is currently being done - we have benfitted from past research as
conclusions have been able to be made; new research is likely to keep
helping inform what response is appropriate for the future.

[John Bowes]

Post by Rich80105
On Sun, 14 Mar 2021 01:54:10 -0800 (PST), John Bowes

Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 11 Mar 2021 23:26:54 -0800 (PST), John Bowes

Post by John Bowes

Finally someone published something. The American CDC fatality
statistc for COVID vaccination rates is, and I quote,
"Of the more than 92 million doses administered in the US to date,
fewer than 1,700 deaths have been reported."
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9349461/Utah-mother-dies-four-days-receiving-second-dose-Modernas-vaccine.html
By "fewer than 1700", they appear to mean "between 1600 and 1700". So
let's call it 1650 deaths, which from 92,000,000 vaccinations, comes
out to 0.001793% deaths, i.e., 1 death per 55,772 people. If that's
right, then if 5 million New Zealanders are vaccinated, the total
expected death count would be 90.
So we should expect 90 fatalities from the NZ-wide roll-out of the
COVID vaccine. Anyone see anything wrong with this calculation?

Questioned my Dr. today about the vaccine and whether it was going to be an ongoing thing like the flu vaccine. She told me they don't know as they're learning new data about covid 19 on an almost daily basis. King of makes the governments glowing reports seem like just more bullshit from a bunch of very experienced bullshit artists! So much for an open and transparent government!

So when your doctor tells you that we are learning new data about
Covid on an almost daily basis, you blame the government? If you aske
your doctor when you were going to die and your doctor says there is
insufficient data, would you blame the governmetn for that too?

Yes Rich. Because the government or governmtn if you prefer, has been pretty dodgy when it comes to openness and telling us what we need to know.

What is it you think they know that they are not telling us, John
Bowes? As far as I am aware your Dr. told you exactly what the
government knows.

What? That they don't know shit about the virus?

Post by Rich80105
King of makes your statement just more bullshit from
a well known artist

That Rich is you as your current post proves beyond a doubt :)
<further garbage from the stupidest propagandist snipped>
The fact you can't comprehend here Rich is that all the bullshit from you won't change is that the health professionals and the government don't have a clue about what to expect!

[Rich80105]

On Sun, 14 Mar 2021 13:17:54 -0700 (PDT), John Bowes

Post by John Bowes

Post by Rich80105
On Sun, 14 Mar 2021 01:54:10 -0800 (PST), John Bowes

Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 11 Mar 2021 23:26:54 -0800 (PST), John Bowes

Post by John Bowes

Finally someone published something. The American CDC fatality
statistc for COVID vaccination rates is, and I quote,
"Of the more than 92 million doses administered in the US to date,
fewer than 1,700 deaths have been reported."
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9349461/Utah-mother-dies-four-days-receiving-second-dose-Modernas-vaccine.html
By "fewer than 1700", they appear to mean "between 1600 and 1700". So
let's call it 1650 deaths, which from 92,000,000 vaccinations, comes
out to 0.001793% deaths, i.e., 1 death per 55,772 people. If that's
right, then if 5 million New Zealanders are vaccinated, the total
expected death count would be 90.
So we should expect 90 fatalities from the NZ-wide roll-out of the
COVID vaccine. Anyone see anything wrong with this calculation?

Questioned my Dr. today about the vaccine and whether it was going to be an ongoing thing like the flu vaccine. She told me they don't know as they're learning new data about covid 19 on an almost daily basis. King of makes the governments glowing reports seem like just more bullshit from a bunch of very experienced bullshit artists! So much for an open and transparent government!

So when your doctor tells you that we are learning new data about
Covid on an almost daily basis, you blame the government? If you aske
your doctor when you were going to die and your doctor says there is
insufficient data, would you blame the governmetn for that too?

Yes Rich. Because the government or governmtn if you prefer, has been pretty dodgy when it comes to openness and telling us what we need to know.

What is it you think they know that they are not telling us, John
Bowes? As far as I am aware your Dr. told you exactly what the
government knows.

What? That they don't know shit about the virus?

Post by Rich80105
King of makes your statement just more bullshit from
a well known artist

That Rich is you as your current post proves beyond a doubt :)
<further garbage from the stupidest propagandist snipped>
The fact you can't comprehend here Rich is that all the bullshit from you won't change is that the health professionals and the government don't have a clue about what to expect!

So tell us, John, when are you going to catch covid-19? Or don;t you
have a clue either?

[John Bowes]

Post by Rich80105
On Sun, 14 Mar 2021 13:17:54 -0700 (PDT), John Bowes

Post by John Bowes

Post by Rich80105
On Sun, 14 Mar 2021 01:54:10 -0800 (PST), John Bowes

Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 11 Mar 2021 23:26:54 -0800 (PST), John Bowes

Post by John Bowes

Finally someone published something. The American CDC fatality
statistc for COVID vaccination rates is, and I quote,
"Of the more than 92 million doses administered in the US to date,
fewer than 1,700 deaths have been reported."
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9349461/Utah-mother-dies-four-days-receiving-second-dose-Modernas-vaccine.html
By "fewer than 1700", they appear to mean "between 1600 and 1700". So
let's call it 1650 deaths, which from 92,000,000 vaccinations, comes
out to 0.001793% deaths, i.e., 1 death per 55,772 people. If that's
right, then if 5 million New Zealanders are vaccinated, the total
expected death count would be 90.
So we should expect 90 fatalities from the NZ-wide roll-out of the
COVID vaccine. Anyone see anything wrong with this calculation?

Questioned my Dr. today about the vaccine and whether it was going to be an ongoing thing like the flu vaccine. She told me they don't know as they're learning new data about covid 19 on an almost daily basis. King of makes the governments glowing reports seem like just more bullshit from a bunch of very experienced bullshit artists! So much for an open and transparent government!

So when your doctor tells you that we are learning new data about
Covid on an almost daily basis, you blame the government? If you aske
your doctor when you were going to die and your doctor says there is
insufficient data, would you blame the governmetn for that too?

Yes Rich. Because the government or governmtn if you prefer, has been pretty dodgy when it comes to openness and telling us what we need to know.

What is it you think they know that they are not telling us, John
Bowes? As far as I am aware your Dr. told you exactly what the
government knows.

What? That they don't know shit about the virus?

Post by Rich80105
King of makes your statement just more bullshit from
a well known artist

That Rich is you as your current post proves beyond a doubt :)
<further garbage from the stupidest propagandist snipped>
The fact you can't comprehend here Rich is that all the bullshit from you won't change is that the health professionals and the government don't have a clue about what to expect!

So tell us, John, when are you going to catch covid-19? Or don;t you
have a clue either?

Stop being a fucking imbecile Rich! I have no intention of catching covid 19! However I have changed my lifestyle to lessen the chances of catching it rather than being a fucking imbecile like you and relying on the government to protect me!

[James Christophers]

Post by John Bowes

Post by Rich80105
On Sun, 14 Mar 2021 01:54:10 -0800 (PST), John Bowes

Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 11 Mar 2021 23:26:54 -0800 (PST), John Bowes

Post by John Bowes

Finally someone published something. The American CDC fatality
statistc for COVID vaccination rates is, and I quote,
"Of the more than 92 million doses administered in the US to date,
fewer than 1,700 deaths have been reported."
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9349461/Utah-mother-dies-four-days-receiving-second-dose-Modernas-vaccine.html
By "fewer than 1700", they appear to mean "between 1600 and 1700". So
let's call it 1650 deaths, which from 92,000,000 vaccinations, comes
out to 0.001793% deaths, i.e., 1 death per 55,772 people. If that's
right, then if 5 million New Zealanders are vaccinated, the total
expected death count would be 90.
So we should expect 90 fatalities from the NZ-wide roll-out of the
COVID vaccine. Anyone see anything wrong with this calculation?

Questioned my Dr. today about the vaccine and whether it was going to be an ongoing thing like the flu vaccine. She told me they don't know as they're learning new data about covid 19 on an almost daily basis. King of makes the governments glowing reports seem like just more bullshit from a bunch of very experienced bullshit artists! So much for an open and transparent government!

So when your doctor tells you that we are learning new data about
Covid on an almost daily basis, you blame the government? If you aske
your doctor when you were going to die and your doctor says there is
insufficient data, would you blame the governmetn for that too?

Yes Rich. Because the government or governmtn if you prefer, has been pretty dodgy when it comes to openness and telling us what we need to know.

OK then. So what do you as an individual need to know that you think the government knows but is deliberately withholding from you, directly or via your doctor? Before you answer, remember that in such a scenario it is crucial that any government not cause undue alarm. Words and how they are delivered matter, particularly during prolonged periods of across-the-board stress and heightened awareness.

Post by John Bowes

Post by Rich80105
What is it you think they know that they are not telling us, John
Bowes? As far as I am aware your Dr. told you exactly what the
government knows.

What? That they don't know shit about the virus?

In which case, if you think your doctor is not as well informed as you believe she should be, or that she is withholding information vital to your welfare, then dump her and find another doctor. If that fails, find an alternative New Zealand government.



(snip)

Post by John Bowes
The fact you can't comprehend here Rich is that all the bullshit from you won't change is that the health professionals and the government don't have a clue about what to expect!

In a never-before-experienced pandemic that's also so fluid and changeable, governments' and health professionals' expectations are largely governed by realism - the known, the possible and the probable - but all based on the always incomplete knowledge and experience gained, so to speak, "on the hoof". The other factor - and it is significant - is the degree to which a population will comply with whatever the pandemic response team advises without the government needing to impose draconian laws that restrict freedoms, including yours.

So far, then, you're doing pretty well out of it.

[John Bowes]

Post by John Bowes

Post by Rich80105
On Sun, 14 Mar 2021 01:54:10 -0800 (PST), John Bowes

Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 11 Mar 2021 23:26:54 -0800 (PST), John Bowes

Post by John Bowes

Finally someone published something. The American CDC fatality
statistc for COVID vaccination rates is, and I quote,
"Of the more than 92 million doses administered in the US to date,
fewer than 1,700 deaths have been reported."
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9349461/Utah-mother-dies-four-days-receiving-second-dose-Modernas-vaccine.html
By "fewer than 1700", they appear to mean "between 1600 and 1700". So
let's call it 1650 deaths, which from 92,000,000 vaccinations, comes
out to 0.001793% deaths, i.e., 1 death per 55,772 people. If that's
right, then if 5 million New Zealanders are vaccinated, the total
expected death count would be 90.
So we should expect 90 fatalities from the NZ-wide roll-out of the
COVID vaccine. Anyone see anything wrong with this calculation?

Questioned my Dr. today about the vaccine and whether it was going to be an ongoing thing like the flu vaccine. She told me they don't know as they're learning new data about covid 19 on an almost daily basis. King of makes the governments glowing reports seem like just more bullshit from a bunch of very experienced bullshit artists! So much for an open and transparent government!

So when your doctor tells you that we are learning new data about
Covid on an almost daily basis, you blame the government? If you aske
your doctor when you were going to die and your doctor says there is
insufficient data, would you blame the governmetn for that too?

Yes Rich. Because the government or governmtn if you prefer, has been pretty dodgy when it comes to openness and telling us what we need to know.

OK then. So what do you as an individual need to know that you think the government knows but is deliberately withholding from you, directly or via your doctor? Before you answer, remember that in such a scenario it is crucial that any government not cause undue alarm. Words and how they are delivered matter, particularly during prolonged periods of across-the-board stress and heightened awareness.

Do you have to try to imitate the fucking imbecile Rich, Keith? Because as you well know that is by far the stupidest unanswerable question cretins like you could ask Keith!

Post by John Bowes

Post by Rich80105
What is it you think they know that they are not telling us, John
Bowes? As far as I am aware your Dr. told you exactly what the
government knows.

What? That they don't know shit about the virus?

In which case, if you think your doctor is not as well informed as you believe she should be, or that she is withholding information vital to your welfare, then dump her and find another doctor. If that fails, find an alternative New Zealand government.

What the fuck are you rambling on about now? In this case you are assuming I'm as imbecilic as you are Keith?

(snip)

Post by John Bowes
The fact you can't comprehend here Rich is that all the bullshit from you won't change is that the health professionals and the government don't have a clue about what to expect!

<Further long winded (but beautifully written) garbage snipped>

[Gordon]

Post by Willy Nilly
Finally someone published something. The American CDC fatality
statistc for COVID vaccination rates is, and I quote,
"Of the more than 92 million doses administered in the US to date,
fewer than 1,700 deaths have been reported."
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9349461/Utah-mother-dies-four-days-receiving-second-dose-Modernas-vaccine.html
By "fewer than 1700", they appear to mean "between 1600 and 1700". So
let's call it 1650 deaths, which from 92,000,000 vaccinations, comes
out to 0.001793% deaths, i.e., 1 death per 55,772 people. If that's
right, then if 5 million New Zealanders are vaccinated, the total
expected death count would be 90.
So we should expect 90 fatalities from the NZ-wide roll-out of the
COVID vaccine. Anyone see anything wrong with this calculation?

So who did they vaccinate first? The old and the fragile who where at risk
of dying via Covid?

As has been pointed out they may have died of something else.

Overall, 0.0018% is better than 3.3%.

[Ainulindale_world_that_is]

Post by Willy Nilly
Finally someone published something. The American CDC fatality
statistc for COVID vaccination rates is, and I quote,
"Of the more than 92 million doses administered in the US to date,
fewer than 1,700 deaths have been reported."
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9349461/Utah-mother-dies-four-days-receiving-second-dose-Modernas-vaccine.html
By "fewer than 1700", they appear to mean "between 1600 and 1700". So
let's call it 1650 deaths, which from 92,000,000 vaccinations, comes
out to 0.001793% deaths, i.e., 1 death per 55,772 people. If that's
right, then if 5 million New Zealanders are vaccinated, the total
expected death count would be 90.
So we should expect 90 fatalities from the NZ-wide roll-out of the
COVID vaccine. Anyone see anything wrong with this calculation?

Yes, plenty. You are assuming the figures represent deaths caused by
the vaccine and not some other agent (like old age). That is
questionable. Lies, damn lies etc.

[Willy Nilly]

Post by Ainulindale_world_that_is

Post by Willy Nilly
So we should expect 90 fatalities from the NZ-wide roll-out of the
COVID vaccine. Anyone see anything wrong with this calculation?

Yes, plenty. You are assuming the figures represent deaths caused by
the vaccine and not some other agent (like old age). That is
questionable. Lies, damn lies etc.

I assume only that the CDC is counting vaccine deaths with the same
methodology that they use to count COVID deaths. Therefore the two
figures are comparable regardless of anything else.

[Ainulindale_world_that_is]

Post by Willy Nilly

Post by Ainulindale_world_that_is

Post by Willy Nilly
So we should expect 90 fatalities from the NZ-wide roll-out of the
COVID vaccine. Anyone see anything wrong with this calculation?

Yes, plenty. You are assuming the figures represent deaths caused by
the vaccine and not some other agent (like old age). That is
questionable. Lies, damn lies etc.

I assume only that the CDC is counting vaccine deaths with the same
methodology that they use to count COVID deaths. Therefore the two
figures are comparable regardless of anything else.

Someone posted this "A review of available clinical information
including death certificates, autopsy, and medical records revealed no
evidence that vaccination contributed to patient deaths"
That was on the CDC website.
Your post might be correct but so far there is no evidence.

[George Black]

Post by Ainulindale_world_that_is

Post by Willy Nilly

Post by Ainulindale_world_that_is

Post by Willy Nilly
So we should expect 90 fatalities from the NZ-wide roll-out of the
COVID vaccine. Anyone see anything wrong with this calculation?

Yes, plenty. You are assuming the figures represent deaths caused by
the vaccine and not some other agent (like old age). That is
questionable. Lies, damn lies etc.

I assume only that the CDC is counting vaccine deaths with the same
methodology that they use to count COVID deaths. Therefore the two
figures are comparable regardless of anything else.

Someone posted this "A review of available clinical information
including death certificates, autopsy, and medical records revealed no
evidence that vaccination contributed to patient deaths"
That was on the CDC website.
Your post might be correct but so far there is no evidence.

Its a case of people dying WITH and not dying OF.
Or overworked staff just trying to clear space to work in...

[Rich80105]

Post by Willy Nilly

Post by Ainulindale_world_that_is

Post by Willy Nilly
So we should expect 90 fatalities from the NZ-wide roll-out of the
COVID vaccine. Anyone see anything wrong with this calculation?

Yes, plenty. You are assuming the figures represent deaths caused by
the vaccine and not some other agent (like old age). That is
questionable. Lies, damn lies etc.

I assume only that the CDC is counting vaccine deaths with the same
methodology that they use to count COVID deaths. Therefore the two
figures are comparable regardless of anything else.

I don't know if the death rate from vaccination may be affected by
whether a person has previously had Covid, or has it at the time of
the vaccination; I do not know if the rate quotes depends on the type
of vaccination used (in the USA I understand different versions are
being used), and I do not know if would be affected by the quality of
medical services available. On all of those grounds, our experience
may vary from that of other countries. We may know more as more of
our people get vaccinated . . .

New Zealanders are of course free to decline to be vaccinated, but
those that do decline are unlikely to be able to travel overseas for
quite some time; that is not likely to be of concern to some.