Discussion:
Once again, MOH caught lying
Add Reply
JohnO
2021-05-26 04:15:18 UTC
Reply
Permalink
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/05/covid-19-response-minister-chris-hipkins-dr-ashley-bloomfield-accused-of-hiding-vaccination-delays.html

Testing of border workers, supply of PPE, availability of vaccines, progress of rollout... it is one lie after another.

Seems that St Ashley, like St Jacinda, is made of teflon.
Crash
2021-05-26 04:53:33 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by JohnO
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/05/covid-19-response-minister-chris-hipkins-dr-ashley-bloomfield-accused-of-hiding-vaccination-delays.html
Testing of border workers, supply of PPE, availability of vaccines, progress of rollout... it is one lie after another.
Seems that St Ashley, like St Jacinda, is made of teflon.
That's because the failures are in delivery (DHBs) which the MOH has
only indirect control of. That has always been a problem, introduced
when a Labour government replaced Crown Health Authorities with DHBs,
and the proposed reforms will deal with.

Availability of vaccines is beyond our control, regardless of which
vaccine we use.


--
Crash McBash
JohnO
2021-05-26 05:33:37 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Crash
Post by JohnO
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/05/covid-19-response-minister-chris-hipkins-dr-ashley-bloomfield-accused-of-hiding-vaccination-delays.html
Testing of border workers, supply of PPE, availability of vaccines, progress of rollout... it is one lie after another.
Seems that St Ashley, like St Jacinda, is made of teflon.
That's because the failures are in delivery (DHBs) which the MOH has
only indirect control of. That has always been a problem, introduced
when a Labour government replaced Crown Health Authorities with DHBs,
and the proposed reforms will deal with.
Availability of vaccines is beyond our control, regardless of which
vaccine we use.
Making promises they have no ability to deliver is within the government's control.

And the keep doubling down on it to boot.

Of course, accountability is nowhere to be seen.
Post by Crash
--
Crash McBash
Crash
2021-05-26 10:36:18 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by JohnO
Post by Crash
Post by JohnO
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/05/covid-19-response-minister-chris-hipkins-dr-ashley-bloomfield-accused-of-hiding-vaccination-delays.html
Testing of border workers, supply of PPE, availability of vaccines, progress of rollout... it is one lie after another.
Seems that St Ashley, like St Jacinda, is made of teflon.
That's because the failures are in delivery (DHBs) which the MOH has
only indirect control of. That has always been a problem, introduced
when a Labour government replaced Crown Health Authorities with DHBs,
and the proposed reforms will deal with.
Availability of vaccines is beyond our control, regardless of which
vaccine we use.
Making promises they have no ability to deliver is within the government's control.
And the keep doubling down on it to boot.
Of course, accountability is nowhere to be seen.
While I agree that in general your summary above is accurate, the
reality is that the current structure of Health is rendered
ineffective by a project as large as dealing with COVID19.

Yes the government has made promises it can only hope are delivered in
the timeframe the Minister of Health would like - but the alternative
is to set no time frames, meaning the Ministry can take as long as
they like to do anything. With COVID immunisation vaccine supply is
an uncontrollable issue. We don't make the stuff and the suppliers
currently have no particular incentive to meet supply volumes in the
timeframe they promised, because we have to buy it and we have to wait
for supply.


--
Crash McBash
James Christophers
2021-05-27 01:08:11 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Crash
Post by JohnO
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/05/covid-19-response-minister-chris-hipkins-dr-ashley-bloomfield-accused-of-hiding-vaccination-delays.html
Testing of border workers, supply of PPE, availability of vaccines, progress of rollout... it is one lie after another.
Seems that St Ashley, like St Jacinda, is made of teflon.
That's because the failures are in delivery (DHBs) which the MOH has
only indirect control of. That has always been a problem, introduced
when a Labour government replaced Crown Health Authorities with DHBs,
and the proposed reforms will deal with.
Availability of vaccines is beyond our control, regardless of which
vaccine we use.
Exactly, Crash, and thank you.

From the article itself:

"COVID-19 Response Minister Chris Hipkins said it all depends on Pfizer's deliveries."

So that's it. You've been told in plain language, the lot of you, but here it is once again for the slow learners around here: It's down to Pfizer itself and/or its downstream delivery operations and operators. We receive solely as their decisions, actions and conditions dictate.

Good enough for me. As for the side-issue minutiae of whatever some minister, opposition spokesman or Covid-response official has said or not said, I couldn't give a tinker's cuss.

I recommend you all do likewise.
JohnO
2021-05-27 03:28:29 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by James Christophers
Post by Crash
Post by JohnO
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/05/covid-19-response-minister-chris-hipkins-dr-ashley-bloomfield-accused-of-hiding-vaccination-delays.html
Testing of border workers, supply of PPE, availability of vaccines, progress of rollout... it is one lie after another.
Seems that St Ashley, like St Jacinda, is made of teflon.
That's because the failures are in delivery (DHBs) which the MOH has
only indirect control of. That has always been a problem, introduced
when a Labour government replaced Crown Health Authorities with DHBs,
and the proposed reforms will deal with.
Availability of vaccines is beyond our control, regardless of which
vaccine we use.
Exactly, Crash, and thank you.
"COVID-19 Response Minister Chris Hipkins said it all depends on Pfizer's deliveries."
So that's it. You've been told in plain language, the lot of you, but here it is once again for the slow learners around here: It's down to Pfizer itself and/or its downstream delivery operations and operators. We receive solely as their decisions, actions and conditions dictate.
Good enough for me. As for the side-issue minutiae of whatever some minister, opposition spokesman or Covid-response official has said or not said, I couldn't give a tinker's cuss.
I recommend you all do likewise.
The problem is: the government shot its mouth off, promising availability of vaccine, before they had secured supply. That Pfizer can't deliver does not excuse the government for promising something when they had no idea whether it would be available.

Now the soft-headed may give them the benefit of the doubt... but that is foolish given the repeated lies: "there is plenty of PPE", "all MIQ workers are tested", "People exiting MIQ stays are tested", "We are at the head of the queue for vaccines", "Groups 1-3 will all be vaccinated by July" and so on. It will never end because the incompetence is lead by the ministry and therefore by the minister.
Rich80105
2021-05-27 04:04:49 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by JohnO
Post by James Christophers
Post by Crash
Post by JohnO
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/05/covid-19-response-minister-chris-hipkins-dr-ashley-bloomfield-accused-of-hiding-vaccination-delays.html
Testing of border workers, supply of PPE, availability of vaccines, progress of rollout... it is one lie after another.
Seems that St Ashley, like St Jacinda, is made of teflon.
That's because the failures are in delivery (DHBs) which the MOH has
only indirect control of. That has always been a problem, introduced
when a Labour government replaced Crown Health Authorities with DHBs,
and the proposed reforms will deal with.
Availability of vaccines is beyond our control, regardless of which
vaccine we use.
Exactly, Crash, and thank you.
"COVID-19 Response Minister Chris Hipkins said it all depends on Pfizer's deliveries."
So that's it. You've been told in plain language, the lot of you, but here it is once again for the slow learners around here: It's down to Pfizer itself and/or its downstream delivery operations and operators. We receive solely as their decisions, actions and conditions dictate.
Good enough for me. As for the side-issue minutiae of whatever some minister, opposition spokesman or Covid-response official has said or not said, I couldn't give a tinker's cuss.
I recommend you all do likewise.
The problem is: the government shot its mouth off, promising availability of vaccine, before they had secured supply. That Pfizer can't deliver does not excuse the government for promising something when they had no idea whether it would be available.
You didn't read above, JohnO - no such promise was made. They have
been open about the plans, and it has been clear that there were
always going to be some uncertainties. As it is, we have so far had
deliveries in accordance with the indications from Pfizer, but we
cannot guarantee that. For example Pfizer will be under pressure to
divert shipments to India (and New Zealand and Australia and other
countires under pressure to allow orders to be deferred to facilitate
that). We are not out of trouble until the world has Covid-19 under
control - and now we see that Victoria is again having problems.
Post by JohnO
Now the soft-headed may give them the benefit of the doubt... but that is foolish given the repeated lies: "there is plenty of PPE", "all MIQ workers are tested", "People exiting MIQ stays are tested", "We are at the head of the queue for vaccines", "Groups 1-3 will all be vaccinated by July" and so on. It will never end because the incompetence is lead by the ministry and therefore by the minister.
Thank goodness that we had the government we did have - they were
right to go hard and go quickly into lockdown, and also right to be
more positive about the outcome than many thought was justified by
events overseas where governments put trade before lives. At various
times our National party opposition were sreaming for restrictions to
bereleased, to follow Australia, to follow Sweden, to follow the UK,
to follow the USA - thankfully their shtrong advice was not followed,
and they are now regarded as largely irrelevant - ACT were more subtle
and balanced - they had less to lose, and have gained considerable
support by not being as rabid . . ..

Much of that can be put down to leadership - for example see
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/may/26/dominic-cummings-covid-chaos-no-10-like-out-of-control-movie-boris-johnson

In the USA the Republicans are having trouble letting go support for
Trump, just as here the Nats are having trouble finding an alternative
to Collins.
Gordon
2021-05-27 05:06:44 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by JohnO
Post by James Christophers
Post by Crash
Post by JohnO
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/05/covid-19-response-minister-chris-hipkins-dr-ashley-bloomfield-accused-of-hiding-vaccination-delays.html
Testing of border workers, supply of PPE, availability of vaccines, progress of rollout... it is one lie after another.
Seems that St Ashley, like St Jacinda, is made of teflon.
That's because the failures are in delivery (DHBs) which the MOH has
only indirect control of. That has always been a problem, introduced
when a Labour government replaced Crown Health Authorities with DHBs,
and the proposed reforms will deal with.
Availability of vaccines is beyond our control, regardless of which
vaccine we use.
Exactly, Crash, and thank you.
"COVID-19 Response Minister Chris Hipkins said it all depends on Pfizer's deliveries."
So that's it. You've been told in plain language, the lot of you, but here it is once again for the slow learners around here: It's down to Pfizer itself and/or its downstream delivery operations and operators. We receive solely as their decisions, actions and conditions dictate.
Good enough for me. As for the side-issue minutiae of whatever some minister, opposition spokesman or Covid-response official has said or not said, I couldn't give a tinker's cuss.
I recommend you all do likewise.
The problem is: the government shot its mouth off, promising availability
of vaccine, before they had secured supply. That Pfizer can't deliver
does not excuse the government for promising something when they had no
idea whether it would be available.
This is one of those cases where no one is sure what will happen timetable
wise. India blew up, Melbourne is trying to do the same.

Also there is the point that the infrastructure for making the RNA style
vacines are not in place.Also growing the bacteria in large enough amounts
has been a big task.

In short we arrive at the situation where nothing is impossible for those
who do have to do it.

Trying to communiate to the team of 5 million clearly is a huge task in
itself. People get a sound bite, with out the one which goes with it.

Just look at some of the way threads go in this ng alone.

Then throw in social media.

Taking, as an example
Post by JohnO
promising availability of vaccine, before they had secured supply.
Two words avaliabilty ond secured. What does one understand they mean in
this context.

The Government said it had an agreement with Pifzer to supply 8 million
doses. At this point it was hard for anyone to secure millions of doses as
they were not in existance.

Finally the Government has set a posed vacionation numbers curve at

https://www.health.govt.nz/our-work/diseases-and-conditions/covid-19-novel-coronavirus/covid-19-data-and-statistics/covid-19-vaccine-data

along with lots of other data.

While one could argue that the roll out has been too slow, there is a plan
and to date it is being followed and the number of doses in arms it greater
than that planned.

The curve is about to get steeper so this where one shall be able to see if
any cracks and slippage appear.

Have a grizzle by all accounts, after all it does make one feel better, but
some encouragement would not be a bad thing.
Post by JohnO
Now the soft-headed may give them the benefit of the doubt... but that is foolish given the repeated lies: "there is plenty of PPE", "all MIQ workers are tested", "People exiting MIQ stays are tested", "We are at the head of the queue for vaccines", "Groups 1-3 will all be vaccinated by July" and so on. It will never end because the incompetence is lead by the ministry and therefore by the minister.
James Christophers
2021-05-27 22:19:50 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Gordon
Post by JohnO
Post by James Christophers
Post by Crash
Post by JohnO
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/05/covid-19-response-minister-chris-hipkins-dr-ashley-bloomfield-accused-of-hiding-vaccination-delays.html
Testing of border workers, supply of PPE, availability of vaccines, progress of rollout... it is one lie after another.
Seems that St Ashley, like St Jacinda, is made of teflon.
That's because the failures are in delivery (DHBs) which the MOH has
only indirect control of. That has always been a problem, introduced
when a Labour government replaced Crown Health Authorities with DHBs,
and the proposed reforms will deal with.
Availability of vaccines is beyond our control, regardless of which
vaccine we use.
Exactly, Crash, and thank you.
"COVID-19 Response Minister Chris Hipkins said it all depends on Pfizer's deliveries."
So that's it. You've been told in plain language, the lot of you, but here it is once again for the slow learners around here: It's down to Pfizer itself and/or its downstream delivery operations and operators. We receive solely as their decisions, actions and conditions dictate.
Good enough for me. As for the side-issue minutiae of whatever some minister, opposition spokesman or Covid-response official has said or not said, I couldn't give a tinker's cuss.
I recommend you all do likewise.
The problem is: the government shot its mouth off, promising availability
of vaccine, before they had secured supply. That Pfizer can't deliver
does not excuse the government for promising something when they had no
idea whether it would be available.
This is one of those cases where no one is sure what will happen timetable
wise. India blew up, Melbourne is trying to do the same.
Also there is the point that the infrastructure for making the RNA style
vacines are not in place.Also growing the bacteria in large enough amounts
has been a big task.
In short we arrive at the situation where nothing is impossible for those
who do have to do it.
Trying to communiate to the team of 5 million clearly is a huge task in
itself. People get a sound bite, with out the one which goes with it.
Just look at some of the way threads go in this ng alone.
Then throw in social media.
Taking, as an example
Post by JohnO
promising availability of vaccine, before they had secured supply.
Two words avaliabilty ond secured. What does one understand they mean in
this context.
From the URL you give:

===============
"Cumulative doses to end of year"

"The DHB Plan figures are the plans published on 14 April 2021 for the period from 5 April to 30 June.

"The Model is a high level estimate prepared by the Ministry of Health, and will be subject to regular revision as the assumptions that inform it are updated.

"The Model takes into account an expected step increase in supply between July and September with an anticipated increase in the delivery of vaccinations related to the eligible population and anticipated stock levels.

"The Stock received figures are the cumulative supply of doses to date."
===============

Readers should particularly take note of the numerous **conditionals** on which the Plan had necessarily been, and continues to be, based - as here:

Estimate
Regular revision
Assumptions that inform
Updated
Expected
Anticipated (twice)

Plain as a pikestaff. The Plan is **perforce** hedged and dogged by uncertainties due to circumstances and conditions entirely beyond the government's control. So if any contributor to this thread can show how it could be otherwise, then by all means let them do so now.
Post by Gordon
The Government said it had an agreement with Pifzer to supply 8 million
doses. At this point it was hard for anyone to secure millions of doses as
they were not in existance.
Finally the Government has set a posed vaccionation numbers curve at
https://www.health.govt.nz/our-work/diseases-and-conditions/covid-19-novel-coronavirus/covid-19-data-and-statistics/covid-19-vaccine-data
along with lots of other data.
While one could argue that the roll out has been too slow, there is a plan
and to date it is being followed and the number of doses in arms it greater
than that planned.
The curve is about to get steeper so this where one shall be able to see if
any cracks and slippage appear.
Have a grizzle by all accounts, after all it does make one feel better, but
some encouragement would not be a bad thing.
George Black
2021-05-27 19:57:05 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by JohnO
Post by James Christophers
Post by Crash
Post by JohnO
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/05/covid-19-response-minister-chris-hipkins-dr-ashley-bloomfield-accused-of-hiding-vaccination-delays.html
Testing of border workers, supply of PPE, availability of vaccines, progress of rollout... it is one lie after another.
Seems that St Ashley, like St Jacinda, is made of teflon.
That's because the failures are in delivery (DHBs) which the MOH has
only indirect control of. That has always been a problem, introduced
when a Labour government replaced Crown Health Authorities with DHBs,
and the proposed reforms will deal with.
Availability of vaccines is beyond our control, regardless of which
vaccine we use.
Exactly, Crash, and thank you.
"COVID-19 Response Minister Chris Hipkins said it all depends on Pfizer's deliveries."
So that's it. You've been told in plain language, the lot of you, but here it is once again for the slow learners around here: It's down to Pfizer itself and/or its downstream delivery operations and operators. We receive solely as their decisions, actions and conditions dictate.
Good enough for me. As for the side-issue minutiae of whatever some minister, opposition spokesman or Covid-response official has said or not said, I couldn't give a tinker's cuss.
I recommend you all do likewise.
The problem is: the government shot its mouth off, promising availability of vaccine, before they had secured supply. That Pfizer can't deliver does not excuse the government for promising something when they had no idea whether it would be available.
Now the soft-headed may give them the benefit of the doubt... but that is foolish given the repeated lies: "there is plenty of PPE", "all MIQ workers are tested", "People exiting MIQ stays are tested", "We are at the head of the queue for vaccines", "Groups 1-3 will all be vaccinated by July" and so on. It will never end because the incompetence is lead by the ministry and therefore by the minister.
Par for the course.
All the 'ministers' are useless yes men (and the women)
Cindy doesn't know, her deputies dont know and those who elected them
also dont know.
More NO than KNOW
Rich80105
2021-05-27 23:03:56 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Thu, 27 May 2021 14:30:01 -0700 (PDT), John Bowes
Post by George Black
Post by JohnO
Post by James Christophers
Post by Crash
Post by JohnO
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/05/covid-19-response-minister-chris-hipkins-dr-ashley-bloomfield-accused-of-hiding-vaccination-delays.html
Testing of border workers, supply of PPE, availability of vaccines, progress of rollout... it is one lie after another.
Seems that St Ashley, like St Jacinda, is made of teflon.
That's because the failures are in delivery (DHBs) which the MOH has
only indirect control of. That has always been a problem, introduced
when a Labour government replaced Crown Health Authorities with DHBs,
and the proposed reforms will deal with.
Availability of vaccines is beyond our control, regardless of which
vaccine we use.
Exactly, Crash, and thank you.
"COVID-19 Response Minister Chris Hipkins said it all depends on Pfizer's deliveries."
So that's it. You've been told in plain language, the lot of you, but here it is once again for the slow learners around here: It's down to Pfizer itself and/or its downstream delivery operations and operators. We receive solely as their decisions, actions and conditions dictate.
Good enough for me. As for the side-issue minutiae of whatever some minister, opposition spokesman or Covid-response official has said or not said, I couldn't give a tinker's cuss.
I recommend you all do likewise.
The problem is: the government shot its mouth off, promising availability of vaccine, before they had secured supply. That Pfizer can't deliver does not excuse the government for promising something when they had no idea whether it would be available.
Now the soft-headed may give them the benefit of the doubt... but that is foolish given the repeated lies: "there is plenty of PPE", "all MIQ workers are tested", "People exiting MIQ stays are tested", "We are at the head of the queue for vaccines", "Groups 1-3 will all be vaccinated by July" and so on. It will never end because the incompetence is lead by the ministry and therefore by the minister.
Par for the course.
All the 'ministers' are useless yes men (and the women)
Cindy doesn't know, her deputies dont know and those who elected them
also dont know.
More NO than KNOW
Probably why they're so bloody good at talking about problems rather than actually DOING anything!
Good to see they've finally decided who is in group 3 and finally getting on with the vaccine roll out!
If you had been following the government websites you would have seen
that a lot of those decisions were made months ago.
John Bowes
2021-05-28 00:08:48 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 27 May 2021 14:30:01 -0700 (PDT), John Bowes
Post by George Black
Post by JohnO
Post by James Christophers
Post by Crash
Post by JohnO
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/05/covid-19-response-minister-chris-hipkins-dr-ashley-bloomfield-accused-of-hiding-vaccination-delays.html
Testing of border workers, supply of PPE, availability of vaccines, progress of rollout... it is one lie after another.
Seems that St Ashley, like St Jacinda, is made of teflon.
That's because the failures are in delivery (DHBs) which the MOH has
only indirect control of. That has always been a problem, introduced
when a Labour government replaced Crown Health Authorities with DHBs,
and the proposed reforms will deal with.
Availability of vaccines is beyond our control, regardless of which
vaccine we use.
Exactly, Crash, and thank you.
"COVID-19 Response Minister Chris Hipkins said it all depends on Pfizer's deliveries."
So that's it. You've been told in plain language, the lot of you, but here it is once again for the slow learners around here: It's down to Pfizer itself and/or its downstream delivery operations and operators. We receive solely as their decisions, actions and conditions dictate.
Good enough for me. As for the side-issue minutiae of whatever some minister, opposition spokesman or Covid-response official has said or not said, I couldn't give a tinker's cuss.
I recommend you all do likewise.
The problem is: the government shot its mouth off, promising availability of vaccine, before they had secured supply. That Pfizer can't deliver does not excuse the government for promising something when they had no idea whether it would be available.
Now the soft-headed may give them the benefit of the doubt... but that is foolish given the repeated lies: "there is plenty of PPE", "all MIQ workers are tested", "People exiting MIQ stays are tested", "We are at the head of the queue for vaccines", "Groups 1-3 will all be vaccinated by July" and so on. It will never end because the incompetence is lead by the ministry and therefore by the minister.
Par for the course.
All the 'ministers' are useless yes men (and the women)
Cindy doesn't know, her deputies dont know and those who elected them
also dont know.
More NO than KNOW
Probably why they're so bloody good at talking about problems rather than actually DOING anything!
Good to see they've finally decided who is in group 3 and finally getting on with the vaccine roll out!
If you had been following the government websites you would have seen
that a lot of those decisions were made months ago.
I have been Rich and once again you're lying and you know it!

George Black
2021-05-26 20:03:17 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by JohnO
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/05/covid-19-response-minister-chris-hipkins-dr-ashley-bloomfield-accused-of-hiding-vaccination-delays.html
Testing of border workers, supply of PPE, availability of vaccines, progress of rollout... it is one lie after another.
Seems that St Ashley, like St Jacinda, is made of teflon.
I thought that by now all we geriatrics would have been contacted and
had our covid shots.

Been contacted for the flu
John Bowes
2021-05-26 21:32:24 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by George Black
Post by JohnO
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/05/covid-19-response-minister-chris-hipkins-dr-ashley-bloomfield-accused-of-hiding-vaccination-delays.html
Testing of border workers, supply of PPE, availability of vaccines, progress of rollout... it is one lie after another.
Seems that St Ashley, like St Jacinda, is made of teflon.
I thought that by now all we geriatrics would have been contacted and
had our covid shots.
Been contacted for the flu
Same here George. Tried getting to Hutt Valley DHB online the other day to check on what's happening and had to try three times before the link worked! But still no info on what is actually happening. Best they could do was suggest vaccination was starting end of May. With four days left I'm holding out for it being done at end of June. That is if they have enough vaccine by then!
Loading...