Discussion:
COVID-21
(too old to reply)
Willy Nilly
2021-02-27 09:30:19 UTC
Permalink
Oh great, the symptoms of the new strain of COVID are muscular aches,
fatigue, and runny nose & sneezing. The uncommon cold has become just
another type of common cold. And they are locking us down for
this?!?! Where is the sanity?

Soon the symptoms of the vaccine will be worse than the symptoms of
the new COVID. Can we all just call it COVID-21, have a spoonful of
cough syrup and go back to work, please?
Rich80105
2021-02-27 10:03:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Willy Nilly
Oh great, the symptoms of the new strain of COVID are muscular aches,
fatigue, and runny nose & sneezing. The uncommon cold has become just
another type of common cold. And they are locking us down for
this?!?! Where is the sanity?
Did you think before posting? Catching covid is not the same as
catching a cold - even though some of the initial symptoms may seem
similar. Covid-19 is not the common cold. If you have symptoms and
have any doubt about what is causing them, have a test and stay in
isolation until you get the results!
Post by Willy Nilly
Soon the symptoms of the vaccine will be worse than the symptoms of
the new COVID. Can we all just call it COVID-21, have a spoonful of
cough syrup and go back to work, please?
The vaccine does not appear to have any significant symptoms in most
cases, and no it is not worse than Covid - any of the variants that
may be carried by people entering MIQ. And no, if you have symptoms
and think there is even a small possibility it may be Covid, have a
test and then isolate!

It is possible your brain has been affected; and it may be Covid,
First thing tomorrow, you should explain that you have been showing
signs of srtange behaviour, ask for a test, and isolate yourself at
home without internt until the result comes back . . .
Ainulindale_world_that_is
2021-02-27 19:47:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
Post by Willy Nilly
Oh great, the symptoms of the new strain of COVID are muscular aches,
fatigue, and runny nose & sneezing. The uncommon cold has become just
another type of common cold. And they are locking us down for
this?!?! Where is the sanity?
Did you think before posting? Catching covid is not the same as
catching a cold - even though some of the initial symptoms may seem
similar. Covid-19 is not the common cold. If you have symptoms and
have any doubt about what is causing them, have a test and stay in
isolation until you get the results!
Post by Willy Nilly
Soon the symptoms of the vaccine will be worse than the symptoms of
the new COVID. Can we all just call it COVID-21, have a spoonful of
cough syrup and go back to work, please?
The vaccine does not appear to have any significant symptoms in most
cases, and no it is not worse than Covid - any of the variants that
may be carried by people entering MIQ. And no, if you have symptoms
and think there is even a small possibility it may be Covid, have a
test and then isolate!
It is possible your brain has been affected; and it may be Covid,
First thing tomorrow, you should explain that you have been showing
signs of srtange behaviour, ask for a test, and isolate yourself at
home without internt until the result comes back . . .
I do not agree with Willynilly any more than you do but maybe you
should be addressing his post with intelligence instead of sarcastic
stupidity.
Perhaps you would actually be better off referring to the idiot who
had a test and immediately went to the gym. That would be a fair
commentary, but that woulkd require you to be a fair person - oh well
we can only hope.
Rich80105
2021-02-27 20:17:33 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 28 Feb 2021 08:47:19 +1300, Ainulindale_world_that_is
Post by Ainulindale_world_that_is
Post by Rich80105
Post by Willy Nilly
Oh great, the symptoms of the new strain of COVID are muscular aches,
fatigue, and runny nose & sneezing. The uncommon cold has become just
another type of common cold. And they are locking us down for
this?!?! Where is the sanity?
Did you think before posting? Catching covid is not the same as
catching a cold - even though some of the initial symptoms may seem
similar. Covid-19 is not the common cold. If you have symptoms and
have any doubt about what is causing them, have a test and stay in
isolation until you get the results!
Post by Willy Nilly
Soon the symptoms of the vaccine will be worse than the symptoms of
the new COVID. Can we all just call it COVID-21, have a spoonful of
cough syrup and go back to work, please?
The vaccine does not appear to have any significant symptoms in most
cases, and no it is not worse than Covid - any of the variants that
may be carried by people entering MIQ. And no, if you have symptoms
and think there is even a small possibility it may be Covid, have a
test and then isolate!
It is possible your brain has been affected; and it may be Covid,
First thing tomorrow, you should explain that you have been showing
signs of srtange behaviour, ask for a test, and isolate yourself at
home without internt until the result comes back . . .
I do not agree with Willynilly any more than you do but maybe you
should be addressing his post with intelligence instead of sarcastic
stupidity.
Perhaps you would actually be better off referring to the idiot who
had a test and immediately went to the gym. That would be a fair
commentary, but that woulkd require you to be a fair person - oh well
we can only hope.
There have been more than one similar idiot - the one that went to
work as well. A lot of people will be very upset with these people,
but it is not so clear what should be done to reduce the risk of more.
Australia adopted the policy of immediate fines that could be handed
out by police; I suspect that did not work as well as they had hoped -
it made it a minor irritant rather than a serious threat to those
around them to some people, and we saw civil disobedience climb. So on
balance I think the approach the NZ Government has taken is better,
but clearly no single solution will be perfect. I suspect those that
are found to have done stupid things are just a few of many who were
not caught; but if that continues every small outbreak has the
potential to be much larger than it could have been. Clearly there
needs to be the ability to place people doing such stupid things into
MIQ - possibly at their expense as they have shown that they cannot be
trusted with self-isolation, but that is really playing at the edges.

I do think there will be consequences for people caught in this way -
the gym or workplace wil know who they are; family and friends will
know; the main problem is those that are not caught.

In time the vaccine will help, but I believe we will need MIQ for
quite a while, as roll-out will take quite a while here, and longer in
some other countries.

So do you think there should be any changes to current government
policies as a result of these two incidents of people not doing what
they were tod to do?
John Bowes
2021-02-27 21:53:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Sun, 28 Feb 2021 08:47:19 +1300, Ainulindale_world_that_is
Post by Ainulindale_world_that_is
Post by Willy Nilly
Oh great, the symptoms of the new strain of COVID are muscular aches,
fatigue, and runny nose & sneezing. The uncommon cold has become just
another type of common cold. And they are locking us down for
this?!?! Where is the sanity?
Did you think before posting? Catching covid is not the same as
catching a cold - even though some of the initial symptoms may seem
similar. Covid-19 is not the common cold. If you have symptoms and
have any doubt about what is causing them, have a test and stay in
isolation until you get the results!
Post by Willy Nilly
Soon the symptoms of the vaccine will be worse than the symptoms of
the new COVID. Can we all just call it COVID-21, have a spoonful of
cough syrup and go back to work, please?
The vaccine does not appear to have any significant symptoms in most
cases, and no it is not worse than Covid - any of the variants that
may be carried by people entering MIQ. And no, if you have symptoms
and think there is even a small possibility it may be Covid, have a
test and then isolate!
It is possible your brain has been affected; and it may be Covid,
First thing tomorrow, you should explain that you have been showing
signs of srtange behaviour, ask for a test, and isolate yourself at
home without internt until the result comes back . . .
I do not agree with Willynilly any more than you do but maybe you
should be addressing his post with intelligence instead of sarcastic
stupidity.
Perhaps you would actually be better off referring to the idiot who
had a test and immediately went to the gym. That would be a fair
commentary, but that woulkd require you to be a fair person - oh well
we can only hope.
There have been more than one similar idiot - the one that went to
work as well. A lot of people will be very upset with these people,
but it is not so clear what should be done to reduce the risk of more.
Australia adopted the policy of immediate fines that could be handed
out by police; I suspect that did not work as well as they had hoped -
it made it a minor irritant rather than a serious threat to those
around them to some people, and we saw civil disobedience climb. So on
balance I think the approach the NZ Government has taken is better,
but clearly no single solution will be perfect. I suspect those that
are found to have done stupid things are just a few of many who were
not caught; but if that continues every small outbreak has the
potential to be much larger than it could have been. Clearly there
needs to be the ability to place people doing such stupid things into
MIQ - possibly at their expense as they have shown that they cannot be
trusted with self-isolation, but that is really playing at the edges.
I do think there will be consequences for people caught in this way -
the gym or workplace wil know who they are; family and friends will
know; the main problem is those that are not caught.
In time the vaccine will help, but I believe we will need MIQ for
quite a while, as roll-out will take quite a while here, and longer in
some other countries.
So do you think there should be any changes to current government
policies as a result of these two incidents of people not doing what
they were tod to do?
Yes! Close the borders! Don't keep letting infected people into the country!
Ainulindale_world_that_is
2021-02-28 02:19:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Sun, 28 Feb 2021 08:47:19 +1300, Ainulindale_world_that_is
Post by Ainulindale_world_that_is
Post by Rich80105
Post by Willy Nilly
Oh great, the symptoms of the new strain of COVID are muscular aches,
fatigue, and runny nose & sneezing. The uncommon cold has become just
another type of common cold. And they are locking us down for
this?!?! Where is the sanity?
Did you think before posting? Catching covid is not the same as
catching a cold - even though some of the initial symptoms may seem
similar. Covid-19 is not the common cold. If you have symptoms and
have any doubt about what is causing them, have a test and stay in
isolation until you get the results!
Post by Willy Nilly
Soon the symptoms of the vaccine will be worse than the symptoms of
the new COVID. Can we all just call it COVID-21, have a spoonful of
cough syrup and go back to work, please?
The vaccine does not appear to have any significant symptoms in most
cases, and no it is not worse than Covid - any of the variants that
may be carried by people entering MIQ. And no, if you have symptoms
and think there is even a small possibility it may be Covid, have a
test and then isolate!
It is possible your brain has been affected; and it may be Covid,
First thing tomorrow, you should explain that you have been showing
signs of srtange behaviour, ask for a test, and isolate yourself at
home without internt until the result comes back . . .
I do not agree with Willynilly any more than you do but maybe you
should be addressing his post with intelligence instead of sarcastic
stupidity.
Perhaps you would actually be better off referring to the idiot who
had a test and immediately went to the gym. That would be a fair
commentary, but that woulkd require you to be a fair person - oh well
we can only hope.
There have been more than one similar idiot - the one that went to
work as well. A lot of people will be very upset with these people,
but it is not so clear what should be done to reduce the risk of more.
Australia adopted the policy of immediate fines that could be handed
out by police; I suspect that did not work as well as they had hoped -
it made it a minor irritant rather than a serious threat to those
around them to some people, and we saw civil disobedience climb.
Can you provide any evidence that you are not just guessing?
Post by Rich80105
So on
balance I think the approach the NZ Government has taken is better
Without any evidence.
Post by Rich80105
but clearly no single solution will be perfect. I suspect those that
are found to have done stupid things are just a few of many who were
not caught; but if that continues every small outbreak has the
potential to be much larger than it could have been. Clearly there
needs to be the ability to place people doing such stupid things into
MIQ - possibly at their expense as they have shown that they cannot be
trusted with self-isolation, but that is really playing at the edges.
I do think there will be consequences for people caught in this way -
the gym or workplace wil know who they are; family and friends will
know; the main problem is those that are not caught.
There needs to be consequences.
Post by Rich80105
In time the vaccine will help, but I believe we will need MIQ for
quite a while, as roll-out will take quite a while here, and longer in
some other countries.
So do you think there should be any changes to current government
policies as a result of these two incidents of people not doing what
they were tod to do?
Answered already. But you did not acknowledge your unnecessary and
siilly rudeness did you?
James Christophers
2021-02-27 22:12:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
Post by Willy Nilly
Oh great, the symptoms of the new strain of COVID are muscular aches,
fatigue, and runny nose & sneezing. The uncommon cold has become just
another type of common cold. And they are locking us down for
this?!?! Where is the sanity?
Did you think before posting?
Quite so.

Indeed, are you and W-N up-to-date informed at least as well if not better than those who must both apply and account 24/7 for their professional approach to and actions towards the collective Covid-19 response? If not - and I suspect not - how can either of you be certain you are sufficiently qualified in the latest detailed epidemiological science to comment and criticise in such matters?

By the look of it, your exchange seems little more than word-spinning, jockeying for position in a contest in which neither of you is sufficiently equipped to compete.
Willy Nilly
2021-02-27 23:22:21 UTC
Permalink
I suspect not - how can either of you be certain you are sufficiently qual=
ified in the latest detailed epidemiological science to comment and critici=
se in such matters?
Ooohh, argument from authority. So no matter how crack-potted the
authorities are (on whatever topic), we are bound over to replace our
judgement with theirs? Science progresses by replacing one tenet with
a newer better one -- so the old one wasn't so good after all, was it.
Do you think that we are at the end game of science now, where we know
all the ultimate truths? Do you realise that *every* era thinks that?
By the look of it, your exchange seems little more than word-spinning, jock=
eying for position in a contest in which neither of you is sufficiently equ=
ipped to compete.
You see what you want to see -- that wasn't the general "you", btw.
Rich80105
2021-02-28 00:35:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Willy Nilly
I suspect not - how can either of you be certain you are sufficiently qual=
ified in the latest detailed epidemiological science to comment and critici=
se in such matters?
Ooohh, argument from authority. So no matter how crack-potted the
authorities are (on whatever topic), we are bound over to replace our
judgement with theirs? Science progresses by replacing one tenet with
a newer better one -- so the old one wasn't so good after all, was it.
Do you think that we are at the end game of science now, where we know
all the ultimate truths? Do you realise that *every* era thinks that?
By the look of it, your exchange seems little more than word-spinning, jock=
eying for position in a contest in which neither of you is sufficiently equ=
ipped to compete.
You see what you want to see -- that wasn't the general "you", btw.
Willy Nilly snipped the bits he didn't want to be referred to - I was
Post by Willy Nilly
Oh great, the symptoms of the new strain of COVID are muscular aches,
fatigue, and runny nose & sneezing. The uncommon cold has become just
another type of common cold. And they are locking us down for
this?!?! Where is the sanity?
which does not contain anything requiring qualification in
epidemiological science to be qualified to comment on.
Post by Willy Nilly
Oh great, the symptoms of the new strain of COVID are muscular aches,
fatigue, and runny nose & sneezing.
These may be among the initial symptoms of the new strain, but they
are not likely to be the only symptoms which should prompt someone to
take a test.
Post by Willy Nilly
The uncommon cold has become just another type of common cold.
If "uncommon cold" is intended to mean covid infection, then no it has
not become just another type of common cold.
Post by Willy Nilly
And they are locking us down for this?!?!
"They" are locking Auckland down at level 3 for a community infection
of covid-19 which has not been closed off - not because there is a new
strain.
Post by Willy Nilly
Where is the sanity?
Witht he governmetn in accepting the professional advice of its
experts, not with the poster of those words.
James Christophers
2021-02-28 02:36:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Willy Nilly
I suspect not - how can either of you be certain you are sufficiently qual=
ified in the latest detailed epidemiological science to comment and critici=
se in such matters?
Ooohh, argument from authority.
Hardly. No - just a wee leavening of the discourse puckishly prompted by what I see as the doodling and insufficiently authoritative nature of your exchanges to date.
Post by Willy Nilly
So no matter how crack-potted the
authorities are (on whatever topic), we are bound over to replace our
judgement with theirs?
Hehehe - who told you this? Certainly not I. You dub authorities as "crack-potted" as if to suggest there can be no other kind. No different from Trump, then. .....Eh?
Post by Willy Nilly
Science progresses by replacing one tenet with
a newer better one -- so the old one wasn't so good after all, was it.
Yes, but even so, soundly argued hypothesis - not skepticism - is the bedrock of all original science. Skepticism challenges hypothesis but requires sound reasoning based not on its own skepticism (circular fallacy) but on its own original, reasoned logic applied to what it already (thinks it or may actually) knows. If proven sound enough in its conclusions, it then becomes hypothesis in its own right and after further development and consolidation may even ultimately supplant the original as current "received" science.
Post by Willy Nilly
Do you think that we are at the end game of science now, where we know
all the ultimate truths?
For as long as we have hypothesis and the quintessential intellectual force behind it as catalyst, I doubt this can never be so.
Post by Willy Nilly
Do you realise that *every* era thinks that?
It may well think that and will doubtless continue to do so until the ultimate extinction of homo sapiens. It's also said, even today, Einstein and Newton, inter alios, have their challengers... And many folk still can't get their head around the concept of the "j operator", or the possibility of two correct answers to a mathematical proof, of which one is absurd.
Post by Willy Nilly
By the look of it, your exchange seems little more than word-spinning, jock=
eying for position in a contest in which neither of you is sufficiently equ=
ipped to compete.
You see what you want to see -- that wasn't the general "you", btw.
You simply have to have typed that line facing a mirror!

So, both skeptic and conspiracy theorist, you're a self-styled Asimov and Foucault all rolled into one? There's not many can be suspected of such a thing and accept it with a straight face!
John Bowes
2021-03-01 05:39:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by James Christophers
Post by Rich80105
Post by Willy Nilly
Oh great, the symptoms of the new strain of COVID are muscular aches,
fatigue, and runny nose & sneezing. The uncommon cold has become just
another type of common cold. And they are locking us down for
this?!?! Where is the sanity?
Did you think before posting?
Quite so.
<garbage snipped>
Post by James Christophers
By the look of it, your exchange seems little more than word-spinning, jockeying for position in a contest in which neither of you is sufficiently equipped to compete.
That sounds EXACTLY like so many (including this one) of your posts Keith :)
Gordon
2021-02-28 03:02:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Willy Nilly
Oh great, the symptoms of the new strain of COVID are muscular aches,
fatigue, and runny nose & sneezing. The uncommon cold has become just
another type of common cold. And they are locking us down for
this?!?! Where is the sanity?
Soon the symptoms of the vaccine will be worse than the symptoms of
the new COVID. Can we all just call it COVID-21, have a spoonful of
cough syrup and go back to work, please?
This escapes many people. Covid is very infectious and spreads fast. So it
is only approx 3% of the cases which do not make it out the other side to
recovery, but 3% is one heck of alot of people. Hopitals are not not able
to cope.

The common cold does not kill. Flu does not kill as many.

3% of 5 million is 150,000 over 10% of Auckland.

Also Willy you need to think ahead because another pandemic will appear in
about a decades time. This one might be a real killer.
Mutlley
2021-02-28 19:38:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gordon
Post by Willy Nilly
Oh great, the symptoms of the new strain of COVID are muscular aches,
fatigue, and runny nose & sneezing. The uncommon cold has become just
another type of common cold. And they are locking us down for
this?!?! Where is the sanity?
Soon the symptoms of the vaccine will be worse than the symptoms of
the new COVID. Can we all just call it COVID-21, have a spoonful of
cough syrup and go back to work, please?
This escapes many people. Covid is very infectious and spreads fast. So it
is only approx 3% of the cases which do not make it out the other side to
recovery, but 3% is one heck of alot of people. Hopitals are not not able
to cope.
The common cold does not kill. Flu does not kill as many.
In 2019 the "Flu" killed about 400 to 500 people here in NZ but now
we're locking down the whole country for what may or may not be a
very contagious and dangerous virus. If it was so bad I would
expect half od those that test positive in MIQ to be in hospital by
now.

The fear factor on this is being spun out by this government and Rich
to get the most fear out there.
BR
2021-02-28 16:40:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Willy Nilly
Oh great, the symptoms of the new strain of COVID are muscular aches,
fatigue, and runny nose & sneezing. The uncommon cold has become just
another type of common cold. And they are locking us down for
this?!?! Where is the sanity?
Soon the symptoms of the vaccine will be worse than the symptoms of
the new COVID. Can we all just call it COVID-21, have a spoonful of
cough syrup and go back to work, please?
Covid19. The most politicised illness in history.

The panic started just over a year ago with video footage of people
dropping dead in the streets, and bodies piling up on the side of the
road in places like Ecuador.

You don’t see that so much now. These days people who have died WITH
covid are reported to have died OF covid even though many of these
deaths had nothing to do with covid.

I stopped taking the threat from covid 19 seriously when during the
level 4 lockdown, a crowd of people gathered together in downtown
Auckland to protest about something that was happening overseas and
which was none of their business. The authorities stood by and did
nothing.

There are many lies, exaggerations and deceptions surrounding this
disease. One thing seems certain though. In spite of it’s deadly
reputation, it has breathed new life into the career prospects of left
wing politicians and their surrogates.

I don’t trust Ardern or the sycophants surrounding her to ever tell
the truth about this illness, and when it is clearly playing into
their hands, why would they want it to go away?

Bill.
--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com
James Christophers
2021-02-28 21:57:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by BR
Post by Willy Nilly
Oh great, the symptoms of the new strain of COVID are muscular aches,
fatigue, and runny nose & sneezing. The uncommon cold has become just
another type of common cold. And they are locking us down for
this?!?! Where is the sanity?
Soon the symptoms of the vaccine will be worse than the symptoms of
the new COVID. Can we all just call it COVID-21, have a spoonful of
cough syrup and go back to work, please?
Covid19. The most politicised illness in history.
The panic started just over a year ago with video footage of people
dropping dead in the streets, and bodies piling up on the side of the
road in places like Ecuador.
You don’t see that so much now. These days people who have died WITH
covid are reported to have died OF covid even though many of these
deaths had nothing to do with covid.
I stopped taking the threat from covid 19 seriously when during the
level 4 lockdown, a crowd of people gathered together in downtown
Auckland to protest about something that was happening overseas and
which was none of their business. The authorities stood by and did
nothing.
There are many lies, exaggerations and deceptions surrounding this
disease. One thing seems certain though. In spite of it’s deadly
reputation, it has breathed new life into the career prospects of left
wing politicians and their surrogates.
I don’t trust Ardern or the sycophants surrounding her to ever tell
the truth about this illness, and when it is clearly playing into
their hands, why would they want it to go away?
At base, any government elected under a democratic mandate is nothing more than temporary steward of that nation's total wellbeing. Without exception, they are fallible. They will have their successes and their failures. They will have their sycophants and their detractors. They will receive both praise and excoriation, these more often than not within days of each other. Inevitably and without exception, every democratically elected government will fall. It can never be any other way. Bleedin' obvious? Not to some on this group, you'd be entitled to think.

In a pandemic, personal self-preservation is all, and this is what motivates each of us in our own way. Reason with caution are the watchwords, and this applies as much to the threat itself as to any official directive, however well-intentioned. Government's job is to shape policies and actions into a common front against the threat but always while preserving social cohesion. But without commonsense reasoning and goodwill on the part of the individual, plus a healthy appreciation of the damaging implications of the likes of Foucault(qv) and his malign influences, you're on a hiding to nothing. Apropos all of which:

Something like 40 years ago, a UK TV interviewer asked an elderly and much-revered retired British politician how mistakes and disasters occur during a government's incumbency - how much is due to cockup and how much to conspiracy. He replied that by his rough reckoning 90% of it was cockup, 10% conspiracy - such conspiracy being not so much with any wilful malfeasance in mind but to survive the inevitable post-cockup public backlash and ministerial coverup, public perception and that which misinforms it being all. Did governments break the law? Good God - every day of the week! came the reply. Frankly, half the time it's the only way you can get things done. Was there bribery? Certainly, and for the same reasons, and when there is no other recourse to be had. In trade, at home, and with our overseas trading partners, it goes on without letup. After all, the world economy is a global business that like any business you can name runs on competitiveness. Those countries that get to the top and never seem to stop expanding are those that not only cheat the most but are clever enough to keep at it without being caught at it.[1] Exactly the same goes for government and corporate corruption and the difference between the amount that's actually going on and the amount being inadequately reported or deliberately withheld.

"There are lies, lies and statistics"(qv)

So, one may take it that with all governments it might also pay to treat the Global Corruption Index in the manner it plainly merits.
Rich80105
2021-02-28 23:42:26 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 28 Feb 2021 13:57:39 -0800 (PST), James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by BR
Post by Willy Nilly
Oh great, the symptoms of the new strain of COVID are muscular aches,
fatigue, and runny nose & sneezing. The uncommon cold has become just
another type of common cold. And they are locking us down for
this?!?! Where is the sanity?
Soon the symptoms of the vaccine will be worse than the symptoms of
the new COVID. Can we all just call it COVID-21, have a spoonful of
cough syrup and go back to work, please?
Covid19. The most politicised illness in history.
The panic started just over a year ago with video footage of people
dropping dead in the streets, and bodies piling up on the side of the
road in places like Ecuador.
You don’t see that so much now. These days people who have died WITH
covid are reported to have died OF covid even though many of these
deaths had nothing to do with covid.
I stopped taking the threat from covid 19 seriously when during the
level 4 lockdown, a crowd of people gathered together in downtown
Auckland to protest about something that was happening overseas and
which was none of their business. The authorities stood by and did
nothing.
There are many lies, exaggerations and deceptions surrounding this
disease. One thing seems certain though. In spite of it’s deadly
reputation, it has breathed new life into the career prospects of left
wing politicians and their surrogates.
So if there are many lies, exaggerations and deceptions, it will be
easy for you to give an example - Right, BR?
Post by James Christophers
Post by BR
I don’t trust Ardern or the sycophants surrounding her to ever tell
the truth about this illness, and when it is clearly playing into
their hands, why would they want it to go away?
At base, any government elected under a democratic mandate is nothing more than temporary steward of that nation's total wellbeing. Without exception, they are fallible. They will have their successes and their failures. They will have their sycophants and their detractors. They will receive both praise and excoriation, these more often than not within days of each other. Inevitably and without exception, every democratically elected government will fall. It can never be any other way. Bleedin' obvious? Not to some on this group, you'd be entitled to think.
I suspect nearly everyone will agree with this
We can see from different responses around the world that trust is as
important as leadership directing us in a positive way. The USA had
neither, UK very little of either; Australia were too heavy on
penalties and copped a backlash from that. We appear to be getting an
increase in nutters - like the woman that refused tests - an increase
in stupidity (like the young people that went to work or to a gym when
they should have been isolating), and then those that want to downplay
the success of the measures taken in New Zealand for political
reasons.
Post by James Christophers
Something like 40 years ago, a UK TV interviewer asked an elderly and much-revered retired British politician how mistakes and disasters occur during a government's incumbency - how much is due to cockup and how much to conspiracy. He replied that by his rough reckoning 90% of it was cockup, 10% conspiracy - such conspiracy being not so much with any wilful malfeasance in mind but to survive the inevitable post-cockup public backlash and ministerial coverup, public perception and that which misinforms it being all. Did governments break the law? Good God - every day of the week! came the reply. Frankly, half the time it's the only way you can get things done. Was there bribery? Certainly, and for the same reasons, and when there is no other recourse to be had. In trade, at home, and with our overseas trading partners, it goes on without letup. After all, the world economy is a global business that like any business you can name runs on competitiveness. Those countries that get
to
Post by James Christophers
the top and never seem to stop expanding are those that not only cheat the most but are clever enough to keep at it without being caught at it.[1] Exactly the same goes for government and corporate corruption and the difference between the amount that's actually going on and the amount being inadequately reported or deliberately withheld.
"There are lies, lies and statistics"(qv)
And then we have the tired cynicism of retired politicians, and those
that parrot the tired essentially anti government mantra of "they are
all corrupt, no government can be trusted", and the logical extension
"the only way forward is to make government smaller and get them out
of our lives"" - promoted of course by the wealthy for their own
benefit.

To get back to the Subject of this thread, who would prefer that we
had government decisions mirroring those of another country?
Post by James Christophers
So, one may take it that with all governments it might also pay to treat the Global Corruption Index in the manner it plainly merits.
BR
2021-03-01 08:23:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
So if there are many lies, exaggerations and deceptions, it will be
easy for you to give an example - Right, BR?
Go back and read what was written, slowly this time.

Bill.
--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com
Rich80105
2021-03-01 09:21:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by BR
Post by Rich80105
So if there are many lies, exaggerations and deceptions, it will be
easy for you to give an example - Right, BR?
Go back and read what was written, slowly this time.
Bill.
I was asking for examples of lies, exaggerations and deceptions other
than the assertions you made in your post, BR.
BR
2021-03-01 16:36:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
Post by BR
Post by Rich80105
So if there are many lies, exaggerations and deceptions, it will be
easy for you to give an example - Right, BR?
Go back and read what was written, slowly this time.
Bill.
I was asking for examples of lies, exaggerations and deceptions other
than the assertions you made in your post, BR.
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7xmge0
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This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com
Rich80105
2021-03-01 19:45:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by BR
Post by Rich80105
Post by BR
Post by Rich80105
So if there are many lies, exaggerations and deceptions, it will be
easy for you to give an example - Right, BR?
Go back and read what was written, slowly this time.
Bill.
I was asking for examples of lies, exaggerations and deceptions other
than the assertions you made in your post, BR.
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7xmge0
Thanks you BR, Yes I agree with you - that video is indeed a very good
example of lies, exaggeration and deception. No proof is ooffered of
the assertions; it flies in the face of the level of deaths being
experienced in Alberta:
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/alberta-covid-coronavirus-march-1-1.5931650
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1107079/covid19-deaths-by-province-territory-canada/

At a death rate of over 100 per 100,000 people, a simlar rate in New
Zealand would have given us over 5,000 deaths - our actual total is
26.

I am sure you are not suggesting we should adopt policies that would
have caused us an extra 4,974 deaths, are you BR.

Thankfully we are already rollong out vaccine to our population, but
thanks for identifying that bizarre example of lies and exaggeration
and deception for us.
James Christophers
2021-03-01 22:25:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
Post by BR
Post by Rich80105
Post by BR
Post by Rich80105
So if there are many lies, exaggerations and deceptions, it will be
easy for you to give an example - Right, BR?
Go back and read what was written, slowly this time.
Bill.
I was asking for examples of lies, exaggerations and deceptions other
than the assertions you made in your post, BR.
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7xmge0
Thanks you BR, Yes I agree with you - that video is indeed a very good
example of lies, exaggeration and deception. No proof is ooffered of
the assertions; it flies in the face of the level of deaths being
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/alberta-covid-coronavirus-march-1-1.5931650
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1107079/covid19-deaths-by-province-territory-canada/
At a death rate of over 100 per 100,000 people, a simlar rate in New
Zealand would have given us over 5,000 deaths - our actual total is
26.
But in this instance, how do the death rates per 100,000 **cases** - not population - compare between the two countries? Or between any named countries for that matter? Surely this is important because, absent a vaccine, susceptibility to virii greatly increases morbidity in the already ailing, unprotected elderly. In which case population demographics come into play. I don't have the stats to hand but, globally, it seems Covid-**related** deaths are reported siginficantly more frequently than Covid-**only** deaths among those who would otherwise be clinically OK'd as "healthy".

I mostly go along with the general thrust of Dr. Roger Hodkinson's "appeal to reason" given in the clip referenced by BR. He argues, and with some force, that what he views as Canada's excessive zeal in dealing with Covid-19 amounts to overkill. I see validity in his opinion, coming from a medic as it does. But I do wonder if the good doctor would have taken the same line **and in the same publicly-aired context** had a member of his own family succumbed to Covid-19 who, because of inadequate Covid-19 precautions, had previously been unaware of their proximity to a random carrier who themselves might not have known of the danger they innocently posed? Conundrum.

So exactly what level of official catch-all response is correct when a virulent and indiscriminate virus on the loose knows no bounds? Who shall say, and with what ultimate authority and certainty? Mr and Mrs Joe Public don't know. Neither do the epidemiologists. Nor the medics they advise - including, presumably, Dr. Roger Hodkinson. So what should any government do other than do the best it can to meet its prime mandate: to protect the nation and its people from harm?

Who shall say, and, most important of all, be permitted to say it?

Any takers?
Rich80105
2021-03-01 23:44:27 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 1 Mar 2021 14:25:01 -0800 (PST), James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by Rich80105
Post by BR
Post by Rich80105
Post by BR
Post by Rich80105
So if there are many lies, exaggerations and deceptions, it will be
easy for you to give an example - Right, BR?
Go back and read what was written, slowly this time.
Bill.
I was asking for examples of lies, exaggerations and deceptions other
than the assertions you made in your post, BR.
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7xmge0
Thanks you BR, Yes I agree with you - that video is indeed a very good
example of lies, exaggeration and deception. No proof is ooffered of
the assertions; it flies in the face of the level of deaths being
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/alberta-covid-coronavirus-march-1-1.5931650
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1107079/covid19-deaths-by-province-territory-canada/
At a death rate of over 100 per 100,000 people, a similar rate in New
Zealand would have given us over 5,000 deaths - our actual total is
26.
But in this instance, how do the death rates per 100,000 **cases** - not population - compare between the two countries?
Very difficult to measure; in effect differences in age distribution
within a population are being ignored. In reality the crude
comparisons are still relevant however; most countries have broadly
similar distributions.
Post by James Christophers
Or between any named countries for that matter? Surely this is important because, absent a vaccine, susceptibility to virii greatly increases morbidity in the already ailing, unprotected elderly. In which case population demographics come into play. I don't have the stats to hand but, globally, it seems Covid-**related** deaths are reported siginficantly more frequently than Covid-**only** deaths among those who would otherwise be clinically OK'd as "healthy".
Again this is an issue with all death statistics. We know that some
road deaths are due to the driver losing control - eg from a heart
attack - and that it can be difficult to tell whether it is a road
death or a death from heart diease. Again for a crude measure it
doesn't matter - and there it is often deaths that are reported for
each year rather than deaths per 100,000 population.

I suspect most countries use similar definitions based on reporting
requirements for the WHO, which essentially leave classification to
the health experts and staff
Post by James Christophers
I mostly go along with the general thrust of Dr. Roger Hodkinson's "appeal to reason" given in the clip referenced by BR. He argues, and with some force, that what he views as Canada's excessive zeal in dealing with Covid-19 amounts to overkill. I see validity in his opinion, coming from a medic as it does. But I do wonder if the good doctor would have taken the same line **and in the same publicly-aired context** had a member of his own family succumbed to Covid-19 who, because of inadequate Covid-19 precautions, had previously been unaware of their proximity to a random carrier who themselves might not have known of the danger they innocently posed? Conundrum.
The following may be of interest:
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/dr-roger-hodkinson-covid-hoax/
https://factcheck.afp.com/canadian-doctor-falsely-claims-pandemic-hoax
Post by James Christophers
So exactly what level of official catch-all response is correct when a virulent and indiscriminate virus on the loose knows no bounds? Who shall say, and with what ultimate authority and certainty? Mr and Mrs Joe Public don't know. Neither do the epidemiologists. Nor the medics they advise - including, presumably, Dr. Roger Hodkinson. So what should any government do other than do the best it can to meet its prime mandate: to protect the nation and its people from harm?
International comparisons tend to relate to number of cases and
deaths, and give charts over time indicating significant events such
as levels of lockdown. It depends of course as to whether you put
lives ahead of profits in your measurement, but the strength of New
Zealand's economy does appear to indicate that, contrary to the
thoughts of the likes of Dr Hodkinson and conservative politicians,
looking after lives does seem to result in better economic results,
fewer job losses and less reduction in company profits.
Post by James Christophers
Who shall say, and, most important of all, be permitted to say it?
The cbc url above gives an emphasis on cases rather than deaths, but
on any measure the results for NewZealand do appear to be better than
those for Alberta, which does suggest that Dr Hodkinson may not be the
best person to take advice from with regards to the best response to
covid.
Post by James Christophers
Any takers?
I doubt this video (which I note was removed from the YouTube
platform) will be the last misleading video or other media article we
see. They are sadly part of political discourse - if a political
party cannot be attacked by honest means, some will try dishonest
means.
Gordon
2021-03-02 07:34:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 1 Mar 2021 14:25:01 -0800 (PST), James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by Rich80105
Post by BR
Post by Rich80105
Post by BR
Post by Rich80105
So if there are many lies, exaggerations and deceptions, it will be
easy for you to give an example - Right, BR?
Go back and read what was written, slowly this time.
Bill.
I was asking for examples of lies, exaggerations and deceptions other
than the assertions you made in your post, BR.
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7xmge0
Thanks you BR, Yes I agree with you - that video is indeed a very good
example of lies, exaggeration and deception. No proof is ooffered of
the assertions; it flies in the face of the level of deaths being
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/alberta-covid-coronavirus-march-1-1.5931650
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1107079/covid19-deaths-by-province-territory-canada/
At a death rate of over 100 per 100,000 people, a similar rate in New
Zealand would have given us over 5,000 deaths - our actual total is
26.
But in this instance, how do the death rates per 100,000 **cases** - not population - compare between the two countries?
Very difficult to measure; in effect differences in age distribution
within a population are being ignored. In reality the crude
comparisons are still relevant however; most countries have broadly
similar distributions.
Post by James Christophers
Or between any named countries for that matter? Surely this is important because, absent a vaccine, susceptibility to virii greatly increases morbidity in the already ailing, unprotected elderly. In which case population demographics come into play. I don't have the stats to hand but, globally, it seems Covid-**related** deaths are reported siginficantly more frequently than Covid-**only** deaths among those who would otherwise be clinically OK'd as "healthy".
Again this is an issue with all death statistics. We know that some
road deaths are due to the driver losing control - eg from a heart
attack - and that it can be difficult to tell whether it is a road
death or a death from heart diease.
Death by road does not damage the heart in the same way as a heart attack.
Post by Rich80105
Again for a crude measure it
doesn't matter - and there it is often deaths that are reported for
each year rather than deaths per 100,000 population.
I suspect most countries use similar definitions based on reporting
requirements for the WHO, which essentially leave classification to
the health experts and staff
Covid is a bit like aids in that it may not kill directly but anyone who is
not fit, has underlying conditions or is old and frail will not be able to
withstand the covid attack.
Post by Rich80105
Post by James Christophers
I mostly go along with the general thrust of Dr. Roger Hodkinson's "appeal to reason" given in the clip referenced by BR. He argues, and with some force, that what he views as Canada's excessive zeal in dealing with Covid-19 amounts to overkill. I see validity in his opinion, coming from a medic as it does. But I do wonder if the good doctor would have taken the same line **and in the same publicly-aired context** had a member of his own family succumbed to Covid-19 who, because of inadequate Covid-19 precautions, had previously been unaware of their proximity to a random carrier who themselves might not have known of the danger they innocently posed? Conundrum.
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/dr-roger-hodkinson-covid-hoax/
https://factcheck.afp.com/canadian-doctor-falsely-claims-pandemic-hoax
Post by James Christophers
So exactly what level of official catch-all response is correct when a virulent and indiscriminate virus on the loose knows no bounds? Who shall say, and with what ultimate authority and certainty? Mr and Mrs Joe Public don't know. Neither do the epidemiologists. Nor the medics they advise - including, presumably, Dr. Roger Hodkinson. So what should any government do other than do the best it can to meet its prime mandate: to protect the nation and its people from harm?
International comparisons tend to relate to number of cases and
deaths, and give charts over time indicating significant events such
as levels of lockdown. It depends of course as to whether you put
lives ahead of profits in your measurement, but the strength of New
Zealand's economy does appear to indicate that, contrary to the
thoughts of the likes of Dr Hodkinson and conservative politicians,
looking after lives does seem to result in better economic results,
fewer job losses and less reduction in company profits.
Post by James Christophers
Who shall say, and, most important of all, be permitted to say it?
The cbc url above gives an emphasis on cases rather than deaths, but
on any measure the results for NewZealand do appear to be better than
those for Alberta, which does suggest that Dr Hodkinson may not be the
best person to take advice from with regards to the best response to
covid.
Post by James Christophers
Any takers?
I doubt this video (which I note was removed from the YouTube
platform) will be the last misleading video or other media article we
see. They are sadly part of political discourse - if a political
party cannot be attacked by honest means, some will try dishonest
means.
Rich80105
2021-03-02 08:44:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gordon
Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 1 Mar 2021 14:25:01 -0800 (PST), James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by Rich80105
Post by BR
Post by Rich80105
Post by BR
Post by Rich80105
So if there are many lies, exaggerations and deceptions, it will be
easy for you to give an example - Right, BR?
Go back and read what was written, slowly this time.
Bill.
I was asking for examples of lies, exaggerations and deceptions other
than the assertions you made in your post, BR.
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7xmge0
Thanks you BR, Yes I agree with you - that video is indeed a very good
example of lies, exaggeration and deception. No proof is ooffered of
the assertions; it flies in the face of the level of deaths being
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/alberta-covid-coronavirus-march-1-1.5931650
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1107079/covid19-deaths-by-province-territory-canada/
At a death rate of over 100 per 100,000 people, a similar rate in New
Zealand would have given us over 5,000 deaths - our actual total is
26.
But in this instance, how do the death rates per 100,000 **cases** - not population - compare between the two countries?
Very difficult to measure; in effect differences in age distribution
within a population are being ignored. In reality the crude
comparisons are still relevant however; most countries have broadly
similar distributions.
Post by James Christophers
Or between any named countries for that matter? Surely this is important because, absent a vaccine, susceptibility to virii greatly increases morbidity in the already ailing, unprotected elderly. In which case population demographics come into play. I don't have the stats to hand but, globally, it seems Covid-**related** deaths are reported siginficantly more frequently than Covid-**only** deaths among those who would otherwise be clinically OK'd as "healthy".
Again this is an issue with all death statistics. We know that some
road deaths are due to the driver losing control - eg from a heart
attack - and that it can be difficult to tell whether it is a road
death or a death from heart diease.
Death by road does not damage the heart in the same way as a heart attack.
True, but in some cases they may no know whether an accident caused a
heart attack, or the heart attack caused an accident
Post by Gordon
Post by Rich80105
Again for a crude measure it
doesn't matter - and there it is often deaths that are reported for
each year rather than deaths per 100,000 population.
I suspect most countries use similar definitions based on reporting
requirements for the WHO, which essentially leave classification to
the health experts and staff
Covid is a bit like aids in that it may not kill directly but anyone who is
not fit, has underlying conditions or is old and frail will not be able to
withstand the covid attack.
Post by Rich80105
Post by James Christophers
I mostly go along with the general thrust of Dr. Roger Hodkinson's "appeal to reason" given in the clip referenced by BR. He argues, and with some force, that what he views as Canada's excessive zeal in dealing with Covid-19 amounts to overkill. I see validity in his opinion, coming from a medic as it does. But I do wonder if the good doctor would have taken the same line **and in the same publicly-aired context** had a member of his own family succumbed to Covid-19 who, because of inadequate Covid-19 precautions, had previously been unaware of their proximity to a random carrier who themselves might not have known of the danger they innocently posed? Conundrum.
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/dr-roger-hodkinson-covid-hoax/
https://factcheck.afp.com/canadian-doctor-falsely-claims-pandemic-hoax
Post by James Christophers
So exactly what level of official catch-all response is correct when a virulent and indiscriminate virus on the loose knows no bounds? Who shall say, and with what ultimate authority and certainty? Mr and Mrs Joe Public don't know. Neither do the epidemiologists. Nor the medics they advise - including, presumably, Dr. Roger Hodkinson. So what should any government do other than do the best it can to meet its prime mandate: to protect the nation and its people from harm?
International comparisons tend to relate to number of cases and
deaths, and give charts over time indicating significant events such
as levels of lockdown. It depends of course as to whether you put
lives ahead of profits in your measurement, but the strength of New
Zealand's economy does appear to indicate that, contrary to the
thoughts of the likes of Dr Hodkinson and conservative politicians,
looking after lives does seem to result in better economic results,
fewer job losses and less reduction in company profits.
Post by James Christophers
Who shall say, and, most important of all, be permitted to say it?
The cbc url above gives an emphasis on cases rather than deaths, but
on any measure the results for NewZealand do appear to be better than
those for Alberta, which does suggest that Dr Hodkinson may not be the
best person to take advice from with regards to the best response to
covid.
Post by James Christophers
Any takers?
I doubt this video (which I note was removed from the YouTube
platform) will be the last misleading video or other media article we
see. They are sadly part of political discourse - if a political
party cannot be attacked by honest means, some will try dishonest
means.
James Christophers
2021-03-02 00:43:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
Post by BR
Post by Rich80105
Post by BR
Post by Rich80105
So if there are many lies, exaggerations and deceptions, it will be
easy for you to give an example - Right, BR?
Go back and read what was written, slowly this time.
Bill.
I was asking for examples of lies, exaggerations and deceptions other
than the assertions you made in your post, BR.
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7xmge0
Thanks you BR, Yes I agree with you - that video is indeed a very good
example of lies, exaggeration and deception. No proof is ooffered of
the assertions; it flies in the face of the level of deaths being
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/alberta-covid-coronavirus-march-1-1.5931650
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1107079/covid19-deaths-by-province-territory-canada/
At a death rate of over 100 per 100,000 people, a simlar rate in New
Zealand would have given us over 5,000 deaths - our actual total is
26.
But in this instance, how do the death rates per 100,000 **cases** - not population - compare between the two countries? Or between any named countries for that matter? Surely this is important because, absent a vaccine, susceptibility to virii greatly increases morbidity in the already ailing, unprotected elderly. In which case population demographics come into play. I don't have the stats to hand but, globally, it seems Covid-**related** deaths are reported siginficantly more frequently than Covid-**only** deaths among those who would otherwise be clinically OK'd as "healthy".
I mostly go along with the general thrust of Dr. Roger Hodkinson's "appeal to reason" given in the clip referenced by BR. He argues, and with some force, that what he views as Canada's excessive zeal in dealing with Covid-19 amounts to overkill. I see validity in his opinion, coming from a medic as it does. But I do wonder if the good doctor would have taken the same line **and in the same publicly-aired context** had a member of his own family succumbed to Covid-19 who, because of inadequate Covid-19 precautions, had previously been unaware of their proximity to a random carrier who themselves might not have known of the danger they innocently posed? Conundrum.
So exactly what level of official catch-all response is correct when a virulent and indiscriminate virus on the loose knows no bounds? Who shall say, and with what ultimate authority and certainty? Mr and Mrs Joe Public don't know. Neither do the epidemiologists. Nor the medics they advise - including, presumably, Dr. Roger Hodkinson. So what should any government do other than do the best it can to meet its prime mandate: to protect the nation and its people from harm?
Who shall say, and, most important of all, be permitted to say it?
Any takers?
Further to the above, I have just come across this piece from Associated Press. You'll understand it implicitly colours my previous perceptions of Dr Hodkinson's standing as a presumed expert in the field of Coronavirus virology and epidemiology.

https://apnews.com/article/fact-checking-afs:Content:9765563716
BR
2021-03-03 16:47:45 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 1 Mar 2021 16:43:18 -0800 (PST), James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Further to the above, I have just come across this piece from Associated Press. You'll understand it implicitly colours my previous perceptions of Dr Hodkinson's standing as a presumed expert in the field of Coronavirus virology and epidemiology.
https://apnews.com/article/fact-checking-afs:Content:9765563716
I can no longer take seriously anything that comes from the mainstream
media, particularly the likes of the Associated Press which is
comparable to the Washington Post and the NYT when it comes to left
wing bias.

Most of these so-called "fact checkers" are no less suspect than the
facts they claim to be checking. Who fact-checks them?

The problem here is that nobody, particularly those employed in
government positions, will dare to speak out against this unnecessary
panic. It has a parallel in the climate fraud. Covid is a mostly
manufactured crisis siezed upon by left wing politicians to control
the population by fear, aided and abetted by a compliant and well
rewarded media.

I cannot fathom why Dr Hodkinson would want to lie, but I can think of
many reasons why the likes of the Associated Press would not want to
tell the truth.

Bill.
--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com
James Christophers
2021-03-04 00:07:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by BR
On Mon, 1 Mar 2021 16:43:18 -0800 (PST), James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Further to the above, I have just come across this piece from Associated Press. You'll understand it implicitly colours my previous perceptions of Dr Hodkinson's standing as a presumed expert in the field of Coronavirus virology and epidemiology.
https://apnews.com/article/fact-checking-afs:Content:9765563716
I can no longer take seriously anything that comes from the mainstream
media, particularly the likes of the Associated Press which is
comparable to the Washington Post and the NYT when it comes to left
wing bias.
Most of these so-called "fact checkers" are no less suspect than the
facts they claim to be checking. Who fact-checks them?
The problem here is that nobody, particularly those employed in
government positions, will dare to speak out against this unnecessary
panic. It has a parallel in the climate fraud. Covid is a mostly
manufactured crisis siezed upon by left wing politicians to control
the population by fear, aided and abetted by a compliant and well
rewarded media.
A conspiracy, then?
Post by BR
I cannot fathom why Dr Hodkinson would want to lie,
But is Dr Hodkinson lying?
Post by BR
but I can think of many reasons why the likes of the Associated Press would not want to
tell the truth.
While you are marshalling these reason for this group's consideration, consider that the more susceptible the victim of consipiracy theory, the less likely his willingness to recognise and accept truth when presented to him.

That said, had AP been disseminating falsehood when examining Dr Hodkinson’s credentials, you might have a point. But to date there is no evidence that AP has been doing anything other than checking Hodkinson’s credentials as would and should be expected of any investigative organ when, as here, a presumably credentialled “expert” makes unequivocal accusations of fraud against those who design, authorise and implement the global pandemic response.

Now to Dr Hodkinson himself and “credentials”. To date, I can find not one reference to Dr Hodkinson’s specialist credentials in virology or epidemiology. I’d have thought both disciplines reside at the very heart of every pandemic and the required analyses and calibrated responses to them (ref NZ's Dr Baker). Yet Dr Hodkinson appears to be neither virologist nor epidemiologist yet he presumes to speak with the authority accorded to both disciplines. So with both Dr Hodkinson's significant lacunas now up there in lights, let’s move on a little...

AP behaves as the Fourth Estate does and should by holding the powerful to account - the powerful in this instance including the, to me, professionally suspect Dr Hodkinson. As far as I know, there has been no published reaction by Dr Hodkinson to the AP report, nor any reported litigation in support of any such reaction on his part. So, be it right, left or centre, so long as the media, including AP, reports factually and accurately it cannot be accused of bias except in such cases where deliberate factual omission or distortion clouds or perverts the message. These have not happened in this case.

Power abhors exposure, and never more so than in politics. Dr Hodkinson - seemingly insufficiently qualified and hence lacking essential authenticity- has chosen to judge unfavourably others in authority across the world who, backed by the essential authenticity he lacks, introduce anti-pandemic measures under the laws of their respective countries. Yes, as a free citizen, Dr Hodkinson has the right to make his judgements, unauthenticated or no, but even so such judgements come with provisos, one of which is that for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction, as AP’s researches have now effectively demonstrated and with some force.

Dr Hodkinson had first made his declamatory views to a panel, only then to broadcast his inadequately substantiated opinions to a wider world on YouTube for them then inevitably to have migrated to the whacked-out mayhem that is social media, including Twitter, a 100% proven fake propaganda channel in its own right. So what price non-virologist, non-epidemiologist Dr Hodkinson’s authenticity and authority now?

I think Dr Hodkinson might well have served himself better had he been mindful not only of Matthew 7:1-3 KJV, but also that a practising academic with any credibility at all, and one who works in such sensitive areas of medicine, including that of public adviser, needs to temper their evidently natural tendency to hectoring hyperbole with considerably more gravitas and maturity than he shows in the example he has so publically - and quite possibly dangerously - made of himself.

So, in matters concerning Covid-19, the wise will therefore pay Dr Hodkinson no further attention.
Gordon
2021-03-02 07:29:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by James Christophers
Post by Rich80105
Post by BR
Post by Rich80105
Post by BR
Post by Rich80105
So if there are many lies, exaggerations and deceptions, it will be
easy for you to give an example - Right, BR?
Go back and read what was written, slowly this time.
Bill.
I was asking for examples of lies, exaggerations and deceptions other
than the assertions you made in your post, BR.
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7xmge0
Thanks you BR, Yes I agree with you - that video is indeed a very good
example of lies, exaggeration and deception. No proof is ooffered of
the assertions; it flies in the face of the level of deaths being
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/alberta-covid-coronavirus-march-1-1.5931650
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1107079/covid19-deaths-by-province-territory-canada/
At a death rate of over 100 per 100,000 people, a simlar rate in New
Zealand would have given us over 5,000 deaths - our actual total is
26.
But in this instance, how do the death rates per 100,000 **cases** - not population - compare between the two countries?
The death rate per 1 million people is in the order of 1,587 for the USA.
332x1587=526,884 deaths

100 per 100,000 is 1000 per 1 million which is Rich's figures.

Of course we can work out (have) a death rate of x deaths per y cases. Which
is about 0.035 or 3500 per 100,000
Rich80105
2021-03-02 08:41:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gordon
Post by James Christophers
Post by Rich80105
Post by BR
Post by Rich80105
Post by BR
Post by Rich80105
So if there are many lies, exaggerations and deceptions, it will be
easy for you to give an example - Right, BR?
Go back and read what was written, slowly this time.
Bill.
I was asking for examples of lies, exaggerations and deceptions other
than the assertions you made in your post, BR.
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7xmge0
Thanks you BR, Yes I agree with you - that video is indeed a very good
example of lies, exaggeration and deception. No proof is ooffered of
the assertions; it flies in the face of the level of deaths being
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/alberta-covid-coronavirus-march-1-1.5931650
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1107079/covid19-deaths-by-province-territory-canada/
At a death rate of over 100 per 100,000 people, a simlar rate in New
Zealand would have given us over 5,000 deaths - our actual total is
26.
But in this instance, how do the death rates per 100,000 **cases** - not population - compare between the two countries?
The death rate per 1 million people is in the order of 1,587 for the USA.
332x1587=526,884 deaths
100 per 100,000 is 1000 per 1 million which is Rich's figures.
Of course we can work out (have) a death rate of x deaths per y cases. Which
is about 0.035 or 3500 per 100,000
Thanks Gordon. Yes I think I had read that the death rate for those
with covid-19 in a country with a fairly good hospital system is about
3.5% - but with some significant differences in some countries where
you would have expected them to be similar to us - perhaps that is
from hospitals being swamped - that was certainly a concern here at
one time.

I don't know nowwhere I got the death rate of 100 per 100,000 from.
For Alberta the rate is 1886/4.428 = 426 per million population -
that rate for 5 million people gives 2129 deaths. If we had the same
rate of deaths per head of population as the USA, we would have had
1587 *5 = 7,935 deaths compared with our actual deaths of 26.

I don't know where I got the rate of over 100 per 100,000 people from
- but certainly our experience is significantly better than both
Alberta and the USA.
JohnO
2021-03-02 21:27:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
Post by BR
Post by Rich80105
Post by BR
Post by Rich80105
So if there are many lies, exaggerations and deceptions, it will be
easy for you to give an example - Right, BR?
Go back and read what was written, slowly this time.
Bill.
I was asking for examples of lies, exaggerations and deceptions other
than the assertions you made in your post, BR.
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7xmge0
Thanks you BR, Yes I agree with you - that video is indeed a very good
example of lies, exaggeration and deception. No proof is ooffered of
the assertions; it flies in the face of the level of deaths being
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/alberta-covid-coronavirus-march-1-1.5931650
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1107079/covid19-deaths-by-province-territory-canada/
At a death rate of over 100 per 100,000 people, a simlar rate in New
Zealand would have given us over 5,000 deaths - our actual total is
26.
I am sure you are not suggesting we should adopt policies that would
have caused us an extra 4,974 deaths, are you BR.
Thankfully we are already rollong out vaccine to our population, but
thanks for identifying that bizarre example of lies and exaggeration
and deception for us.
No, liar, we are not rolling the vaccine out to the "population". We are rolling it out to a tiny number of border/MiQ workers. Something we should have been doing months ago.

Other countries around the world actually are vaccinating their population. Despite being told we were "at the head of the queue" we are lagging at the tail as our businesses wither and die.

Meanwhile yet another clusterfuck plays out under Mother Jacinda's and St Ashley's watch:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/124415308/covid19-ministry-post-says-kfc-worker-was-not-required-to-isolate-despite-pms-claims

A continuity of incompetence and mixed messaging.
James Christophers
2021-03-02 22:56:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by JohnO
Post by Rich80105
Post by BR
Post by Rich80105
Post by BR
Post by Rich80105
So if there are many lies, exaggerations and deceptions, it will be
easy for you to give an example - Right, BR?
Go back and read what was written, slowly this time.
Bill.
I was asking for examples of lies, exaggerations and deceptions other
than the assertions you made in your post, BR.
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7xmge0
Thanks you BR, Yes I agree with you - that video is indeed a very good
example of lies, exaggeration and deception. No proof is ooffered of
the assertions; it flies in the face of the level of deaths being
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/alberta-covid-coronavirus-march-1-1.5931650
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1107079/covid19-deaths-by-province-territory-canada/
At a death rate of over 100 per 100,000 people, a simlar rate in New
Zealand would have given us over 5,000 deaths - our actual total is
26.
I am sure you are not suggesting we should adopt policies that would
have caused us an extra 4,974 deaths, are you BR.
Thankfully we are already rollong out vaccine to our population, but
thanks for identifying that bizarre example of lies and exaggeration
and deception for us.
No, liar, we are not rolling the vaccine out to the "population". We are rolling it out to a tiny number of border/MiQ workers. Something we should have been doing months ago.
Other countries around the world actually are vaccinating their population. Despite being told we were "at the head of the queue" we are lagging at the tail as our businesses wither and die.
(The following is intended as info, not comment):

"Many of the (vaccine rollout) findings seem to fall along predictable lines of rich v poor. The UK and the US are both well supplied with vaccines right now because they could afford to invest a lot of money into vaccine development and put themselves at the front of the queue.

"Rich countries that didn't do that, like Canada or those in the EU bloc, are a little further behind. Canada was criticised at the end of last year for buying up five times the supply it needs to cover its population, but it seems it wasn't positioned for priority delivery.

"That's partly because the country decided to invest in vaccines from European factories, afraid that the US under Donald Trump would issue export bans. It turned out to be a bad bet. European factories are struggling with supply and recently it has been the EU, not the US, that has been threatening export bans.

"As long as the European market doesn't have enough vaccines, I think that big imports to Canada are going to remain off the cards," says Ms Demarais. Most low-income countries haven't started vaccinating yet. But some countries in the middle are doing better than expected." (Dated 12 Feb 2012) More at:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-56025355

A week or two ago in a radio interview, the question of the timings of rollout startups in various countries was briefly referred to. The WHO spokesman said those countries that have been the most successful with their anti-Covid-19 processes have always been considered lower down the delivery queue than those that had done less well, some of them significantly. He said, how ironic is was that the UK and US have been amongst the very worst in managing the pandemic but will be first in line for vaccine delivery because they make the stuff. From this O think you can it take it that the likelihood is that New Zealand is, effectively, being "delivery downgraded" for being too efficient in its measures and, in terms of global urgency ratings (official or presumed), has therefore inadvertently placed itself towards the tail-end of the delivery queue.

(I note on the distribution map, that one small cluster-state, the UAE, has so far had very much the best of it. Unsurprising to anyone with the faintest awareness of monied global politics!)
Post by JohnO
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/124415308/covid19-ministry-post-says-kfc-worker-was-not-required-to-isolate-despite-pms-claims
A continuity of incompetence and mixed messaging.
So which New Zealand government is presently guaranteed to perform any better?
John Bowes
2021-03-03 00:48:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by JohnO
Post by Rich80105
Post by BR
Post by Rich80105
Post by BR
Post by Rich80105
So if there are many lies, exaggerations and deceptions, it will be
easy for you to give an example - Right, BR?
Go back and read what was written, slowly this time.
Bill.
I was asking for examples of lies, exaggerations and deceptions other
than the assertions you made in your post, BR.
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7xmge0
Thanks you BR, Yes I agree with you - that video is indeed a very good
example of lies, exaggeration and deception. No proof is ooffered of
the assertions; it flies in the face of the level of deaths being
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/alberta-covid-coronavirus-march-1-1.5931650
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1107079/covid19-deaths-by-province-territory-canada/
At a death rate of over 100 per 100,000 people, a simlar rate in New
Zealand would have given us over 5,000 deaths - our actual total is
26.
I am sure you are not suggesting we should adopt policies that would
have caused us an extra 4,974 deaths, are you BR.
Thankfully we are already rollong out vaccine to our population, but
thanks for identifying that bizarre example of lies and exaggeration
and deception for us.
No, liar, we are not rolling the vaccine out to the "population". We are rolling it out to a tiny number of border/MiQ workers. Something we should have been doing months ago.
Other countries around the world actually are vaccinating their population. Despite being told we were "at the head of the queue" we are lagging at the tail as our businesses wither and die.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/124415308/covid19-ministry-post-says-kfc-worker-was-not-required-to-isolate-despite-pms-claims
A continuity of incompetence and mixed messaging.
Interesting the reports they're not vaccinating the south Auckland Dr's. How are they NOT front line workers???
BR
2021-03-03 16:47:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
Post by BR
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7xmge0
Thanks you BR, Yes I agree with you - that video is indeed a very good
example of lies, exaggeration and deception. No proof is ooffered of
the assertions; it flies in the face of the level of deaths being
You know very well the point I was making, but congratulations, you
got me. Well done.

But just in case you missed it:

"Right from the start of the pandemic, we have been very inclusive in
our approach to our approach of categorising deaths as
COVID-19-related deaths," he said. "You might recall when we had a
number of deaths last year sadly related to aged residential care. A
number of those people had actually not been swabbed because of the
nature of their conditions but they were categorised as probable cases
because of their symptoms and the situation." - Ashley Bloomfield.

Did you see that? "Very inclusive"? Very telling. A positive test is
not even required for a death to be included in the covid fatality
statistics. That is fraudulent and should be roundly condemned.

Then the prime minister said this, and I quote:

"We drum in that messaging around the dangers of covid pretty
dilligently for a full two week period of sustained propaganda."

Do you approve of sustained propaganda, Rich80105?

Look at the number of reported "covid deaths" in Florida and South
Dakota compared with those in California and New York. In Florida and
South Dakota there have been no lockdowns, but the reported death rate
from covid is roughly the same from those two states as it is from the
locked down states. Also, how seriously are people expected to take
this threat when the governor of New York ordered nursing home
operators to accept covid positive patients into their care or risk
losing their licence to practise?

You see, left wing politicians have lied to the people for fifty years
about a looming catastrophe called global warming (now rebranded as
climate change). There is no evidence whatsoever that there is a
problem, and no climate disaster prediction they have ever made has
turned out to be true. The result is that most people no longer
believe the nonsense peddled by these doomsayer politicians. Still,
the propaganda juggernaut rolls on. Why should these same politicians
be believed now when they spout death and doom over covid?

Covid is not like smallpox or bubonic plague even though that's how it
was initially sold to the public. A level 4 lockdown was originally
intended to deal with a contagion as deadly as those two. Covid does
not qualify; not even close. With a mortality rate of less than one
half of one percent (a generous assessment, given the lies and
distortions swirling around covid), and the vast majority of those
already old and sick, it would have made much more sense to put belts
and braces around those vulnerable people and leave the remainder of
the population to decide for themselves how they will manage their own
health and well being. These emergency lockdown measures are being
abused by the current government.

Indeed, I remember a time several years ago when I went to Australia
to visit my mother who was in a nursing home. The lady at the front
desk noticed that I had a blocked nose and a bit of a cold. She
wouldn't let me in. I had to wait three days before I could see Mum.
Protecting the elderly from cold and flu is standard practise in
nursing homes (except perhaps in New York).

People are tired of these unnecesary and innefective lockdowns. The
chance of eliminating a virus by quarrantining the public is zero.
However effective you or other people may perceive it to be, a
repeated lockdown only serves to confirm that all previous lockdowns
were futile.

Auckland is now in it's fourth lockdown. How many more will there be,
and what would happen if a really nasty airborne contagion were to
emerge? How seriously would a lockdown weary public take such a
threat? I suspect the public attitude would be significantly more
cavalier than it was towards the first lockdown, particularly when
taking into account how selectively that lockdown was enforced.

The population are going to have to learn to live with this virus.
Only two diseases have ever been completely eradicated, and one of
those was an animal disease. The other took 100 years and was the
first ever disease for which there was a vaccine.

"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its
victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under
robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber
baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be
satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us
without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience."
- C.S.Lewis

Bill.
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