Discussion:
House prices, capatialism and renting
Add Reply
Gordon
2021-03-23 06:27:17 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Well Jacinda has spoken.

Capitalism never solves its problems, just shifts them someplace else.

Good to see this experiement being done, or not depending on how it turns
out.

Can not see the renters not getting hit though. If landlords have had the
tax write off of the interest and relying on capital gains for investment
they will now be, or up to in 5 years time out of this "income". So it will
be a cost and the landlord will be working for less/no profit. Investment
returns very low/non existant. So house sold, less houses to rent, rents
rise. OR Get loss back by raising the rent until tenants go broke.

Either way the renters have just been taxed by Labour. However this will
be gradual so by then a) Labour will be in opposition and b) Everyone will
have forgotten 23 March 2021 announcement. All good.

Oh yes, in the short term the market will cool as it is in a state of shock
and it was about to cool anyway. Jacina will look good. Grant takes flake
about lying. Yes all good indeed.
John Bowes
2021-03-23 08:36:56 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Gordon
Well Jacinda has spoken.
Capitalism never solves its problems, just shifts them someplace else.
Good to see this experiement being done, or not depending on how it turns
out.
Can not see the renters not getting hit though. If landlords have had the
tax write off of the interest and relying on capital gains for investment
they will now be, or up to in 5 years time out of this "income". So it will
be a cost and the landlord will be working for less/no profit. Investment
returns very low/non existant. So house sold, less houses to rent, rents
rise. OR Get loss back by raising the rent until tenants go broke.
Either way the renters have just been taxed by Labour. However this will
be gradual so by then a) Labour will be in opposition and b) Everyone will
have forgotten 23 March 2021 announcement. All good.
Oh yes, in the short term the market will cool as it is in a state of shock
and it was about to cool anyway. Jacina will look good. Grant takes flake
about lying. Yes all good indeed.
Grant will also take flak for ignoring Treasury advice ;)
Rich80105
2021-03-23 09:30:25 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Tue, 23 Mar 2021 01:36:56 -0700 (PDT), John Bowes
Post by John Bowes
Post by Gordon
Well Jacinda has spoken.
Capitalism never solves its problems, just shifts them someplace else.
Good to see this experiement being done, or not depending on how it turns
out.
Can not see the renters not getting hit though. If landlords have had the
tax write off of the interest and relying on capital gains for investment
they will now be, or up to in 5 years time out of this "income". So it will
be a cost and the landlord will be working for less/no profit. Investment
returns very low/non existant. So house sold, less houses to rent, rents
rise. OR Get loss back by raising the rent until tenants go broke.
Either way the renters have just been taxed by Labour. However this will
be gradual so by then a) Labour will be in opposition and b) Everyone will
have forgotten 23 March 2021 announcement. All good.
Oh yes, in the short term the market will cool as it is in a state of shock
and it was about to cool anyway. Jacina will look good. Grant takes flake
about lying. Yes all good indeed.
Grant will also take flak for ignoring Treasury advice ;)
Absolutely, John. He was advised to extend the bright-line test to 20
years, but only took it to 10. Would you be happier with 20 years?
What alternative are ACT or National offering to solve the housing
market problems?
John Bowes
2021-03-23 21:31:31 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Tue, 23 Mar 2021 01:36:56 -0700 (PDT), John Bowes
Post by John Bowes
Post by Gordon
Well Jacinda has spoken.
Capitalism never solves its problems, just shifts them someplace else.
Good to see this experiement being done, or not depending on how it turns
out.
Can not see the renters not getting hit though. If landlords have had the
tax write off of the interest and relying on capital gains for investment
they will now be, or up to in 5 years time out of this "income". So it will
be a cost and the landlord will be working for less/no profit. Investment
returns very low/non existant. So house sold, less houses to rent, rents
rise. OR Get loss back by raising the rent until tenants go broke.
Either way the renters have just been taxed by Labour. However this will
be gradual so by then a) Labour will be in opposition and b) Everyone will
have forgotten 23 March 2021 announcement. All good.
Oh yes, in the short term the market will cool as it is in a state of shock
and it was about to cool anyway. Jacina will look good. Grant takes flake
about lying. Yes all good indeed.
Grant will also take flak for ignoring Treasury advice ;)
Absolutely, John. He was advised to extend the bright-line test to 20
years, but only took it to 10. Would you be happier with 20 years?
What alternative are ACT or National offering to solve the housing
market problems?
Doesn't worry me Rich. I'm not a speculator or someone like you who believe our totalitarian government is capable of achieving what they want with their latest hurried and draconian efforts to fail yet again to achieve their own targets!
Doesn't matter what ACT or National propose. Labour will just keep blocking their ears to it. After all New Zealand was stupid enough to let Ardern get away with a nine month election campaign!
John Bowes
2021-03-23 21:36:10 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Tue, 23 Mar 2021 01:36:56 -0700 (PDT), John Bowes
Post by John Bowes
Post by Gordon
Well Jacinda has spoken.
Capitalism never solves its problems, just shifts them someplace else.
Good to see this experiement being done, or not depending on how it turns
out.
Can not see the renters not getting hit though. If landlords have had the
tax write off of the interest and relying on capital gains for investment
they will now be, or up to in 5 years time out of this "income". So it will
be a cost and the landlord will be working for less/no profit. Investment
returns very low/non existant. So house sold, less houses to rent, rents
rise. OR Get loss back by raising the rent until tenants go broke.
Either way the renters have just been taxed by Labour. However this will
be gradual so by then a) Labour will be in opposition and b) Everyone will
have forgotten 23 March 2021 announcement. All good.
Oh yes, in the short term the market will cool as it is in a state of shock
and it was about to cool anyway. Jacina will look good. Grant takes flake
about lying. Yes all good indeed.
Grant will also take flak for ignoring Treasury advice ;)
Absolutely, John. He was advised to extend the bright-line test to 20
years, but only took it to 10. Would you be happier with 20 years?
What alternative are ACT or National offering to solve the housing
market problems?
btw Rich. If the five year bright line test didn't work what makes you think ten or even twenty yearrs will make an iota of difference to house availability or prices? It's just another knee jerk reaction from a bunch of jerks :)
BR
2021-03-23 16:21:19 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Gordon
Well Jacinda has spoken.
Capitalism never solves its problems, just shifts them someplace else.
What is "capitalism"?

Bill.
--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com
John Bowes
2021-03-23 21:25:02 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by BR
Post by Gordon
Well Jacinda has spoken.
Capitalism never solves its problems, just shifts them someplace else.
What is "capitalism"?
Bill.
--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com
Something dumb arses like Rich believes is a political ethos like his failed socialism....
James Christophers
2021-03-23 22:37:01 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by BR
Post by Gordon
Well Jacinda has spoken.
Capitalism never solves its problems, just shifts them someplace else.
What is "capitalism"?
That which, when failed, is repeatedly rescued and restored by the ever-present ready-at-hand ethos of socialism.
BR
2021-03-24 04:27:09 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Tue, 23 Mar 2021 15:37:01 -0700 (PDT), James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by BR
Post by Gordon
Well Jacinda has spoken.
Capitalism never solves its problems, just shifts them someplace else.
What is "capitalism"?
That which, when failed, is repeatedly rescued and restored by the ever-present ready-at-hand ethos of socialism.
That is your opinion, but what is it? Can you define it?

Bill.
--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com
Rich80105
2021-03-24 04:43:55 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by BR
On Tue, 23 Mar 2021 15:37:01 -0700 (PDT), James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by BR
Post by Gordon
Well Jacinda has spoken.
Capitalism never solves its problems, just shifts them someplace else.
What is "capitalism"?
That which, when failed, is repeatedly rescued and restored by the ever-present ready-at-hand ethos of socialism.
That is your opinion, but what is it? Can you define it?
Bill.
Google is your friend:

"an economic and political system in which a country's trade and
industry are controlled by private owners for profit, rather than by
the state.
"an era of free-market capitalism"

or "Capitalism is an economic system in which private individuals or
businesses own capital goods. The production of goods and services is
based on supply and demand in the general market—known as a market
economy—rather than through central planning—known as a planned
economy or command economy."

and to the question "Who benefits fromCapitalism?" :
Individual capitalists are typically wealthy people who have a large
amount of capital (money or other financial assets) invested in
business, and who benefit from the system of capitalism by making
increased profits and thereby adding to their wealth.

And "Is New Zealand a Capitalist Country"
"The economy of New Zealand is a highly developed free-market economy.
... The country has one of the most globalised economies and depends
greatly on international trade – mainly with Australia, Canada, China,
the European Union, Japan, Singapore, South Korea and the United
States."

And "Is New Zealand a socialist country?"
"New Zealand has a complicated assortment of socialist causes and
organisations. ... Several prominent political parties in New Zealand,
such as the New Zealand Labour Party, have historical links to
socialism but are not generally considered socialist today due to
their acceptance of a capitalist economy."

So all of that means that a problem with the housing market has led to
calls from the National Party for the government to bail out those who
are disadvantaged by that market failure - is that your understanding
of capitalism, Bill?
BR
2021-03-24 16:39:25 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
Post by BR
On Tue, 23 Mar 2021 15:37:01 -0700 (PDT), James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by BR
Post by Gordon
Well Jacinda has spoken.
Capitalism never solves its problems, just shifts them someplace else.
What is "capitalism"?
That which, when failed, is repeatedly rescued and restored by the ever-present ready-at-hand ethos of socialism.
That is your opinion, but what is it? Can you define it?
Bill.
Your friend, not mine.
Post by Rich80105
"an economic and political system in which a country's trade and
industry are controlled by private owners for profit, rather than by
the state.
"an era of free-market capitalism"
or "Capitalism is an economic system in which private individuals or
businesses own capital goods. The production of goods and services is
based on supply and demand in the general market—known as a market
economy—rather than through central planning—known as a planned
economy or command economy."
Long winded plagiarised nonsense.
Post by Rich80105
Individual capitalists are typically wealthy people who have a large
amount of capital (money or other financial assets) invested in
business, and who benefit from the system of capitalism by making
increased profits and thereby adding to their wealth.
A politically biased answer to a question that wasn't asked.
Post by Rich80105
So all of that means that a problem with the housing market has led to
calls from the National Party for the government to bail out those who
are disadvantaged by that market failure - is that your understanding
of capitalism, Bill?
You seem incapable of writing anything that is not party political.
You can't define capitalism and neither can Google.

Bill.
--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com
Rich80105
2021-03-24 19:03:05 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by BR
Post by Rich80105
Post by BR
On Tue, 23 Mar 2021 15:37:01 -0700 (PDT), James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by BR
Post by Gordon
Well Jacinda has spoken.
Capitalism never solves its problems, just shifts them someplace else.
What is "capitalism"?
That which, when failed, is repeatedly rescued and restored by the ever-present ready-at-hand ethos of socialism.
That is your opinion, but what is it? Can you define it?
Bill.
Your friend, not mine.
Post by Rich80105
"an economic and political system in which a country's trade and
industry are controlled by private owners for profit, rather than by
the state.
"an era of free-market capitalism"
or "Capitalism is an economic system in which private individuals or
businesses own capital goods. The production of goods and services is
based on supply and demand in the general market—known as a market
economy—rather than through central planning—known as a planned
economy or command economy."
Long winded plagiarised nonsense.
Where was it plagiarised from, Bill? It seems fairly short to me.
Post by BR
Post by Rich80105
Individual capitalists are typically wealthy people who have a large
amount of capital (money or other financial assets) invested in
business, and who benefit from the system of capitalism by making
increased profits and thereby adding to their wealth.
A politically biased answer to a question that wasn't asked.
A not unreasonable question - the Google search gave it as a suggested
question arising from the initial question
Post by BR
Post by Rich80105
So all of that means that a problem with the housing market has led to
calls from the National Party for the government to bail out those who
are disadvantaged by that market failure - is that your understanding
of capitalism, Bill?
You seem incapable of writing anything that is not party political.
You can't define capitalism and neither can Google.
I would be interested in your version, Bill. Do you disagree with the
import of the words I have quoted from Google above - even if long
winded and plagiarised . . .?
Post by BR
Bill.
John Bowes
2021-03-24 22:52:27 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by BR
Post by Rich80105
Post by BR
On Tue, 23 Mar 2021 15:37:01 -0700 (PDT), James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by BR
Post by Gordon
Well Jacinda has spoken.
Capitalism never solves its problems, just shifts them someplace else.
What is "capitalism"?
That which, when failed, is repeatedly rescued and restored by the ever-present ready-at-hand ethos of socialism.
That is your opinion, but what is it? Can you define it?
Bill.
Your friend, not mine.
Post by Rich80105
"an economic and political system in which a country's trade and
industry are controlled by private owners for profit, rather than by
the state.
"an era of free-market capitalism"
or "Capitalism is an economic system in which private individuals or
businesses own capital goods. The production of goods and services is
based on supply and demand in the general market—known as a market
economy—rather than through central planning—known as a planned
economy or command economy."
Long winded plagiarised nonsense.
Where was it plagiarised from, Bill? It seems fairly short to me.
Post by BR
Post by Rich80105
Individual capitalists are typically wealthy people who have a large
amount of capital (money or other financial assets) invested in
business, and who benefit from the system of capitalism by making
increased profits and thereby adding to their wealth.
A politically biased answer to a question that wasn't asked.
A not unreasonable question - the Google search gave it as a suggested
question arising from the initial question
Post by BR
Post by Rich80105
So all of that means that a problem with the housing market has led to
calls from the National Party for the government to bail out those who
are disadvantaged by that market failure - is that your understanding
of capitalism, Bill?
You seem incapable of writing anything that is not party political.
You can't define capitalism and neither can Google.
I would be interested in your version, Bill. Do you disagree with the
import of the words I have quoted from Google above - even if long
winded and plagiarised . . .?
Post by BR
Bill.
Yet nothing about how "Capitalism"creates jobs and opportunities Rich. But guess you're happy with Marxism that has only ever destroyed economies, hope and lives. Just as is happening in New Zealand as you and Keith desperately try to deny daily!
James Christophers
2021-03-25 00:11:38 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by John Bowes
Post by BR
Post by Rich80105
Post by BR
On Tue, 23 Mar 2021 15:37:01 -0700 (PDT), James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by BR
Post by Gordon
Well Jacinda has spoken.
Capitalism never solves its problems, just shifts them someplace else.
What is "capitalism"?
That which, when failed, is repeatedly rescued and restored by the ever-present ready-at-hand ethos of socialism.
That is your opinion, but what is it? Can you define it?
Bill.
Your friend, not mine.
Post by Rich80105
"an economic and political system in which a country's trade and
industry are controlled by private owners for profit, rather than by
the state.
"an era of free-market capitalism"
or "Capitalism is an economic system in which private individuals or
businesses own capital goods. The production of goods and services is
based on supply and demand in the general market—known as a market
economy—rather than through central planning—known as a planned
economy or command economy."
Long winded plagiarised nonsense.
Where was it plagiarised from, Bill? It seems fairly short to me.
Post by BR
Post by Rich80105
Individual capitalists are typically wealthy people who have a large
amount of capital (money or other financial assets) invested in
business, and who benefit from the system of capitalism by making
increased profits and thereby adding to their wealth.
A politically biased answer to a question that wasn't asked.
A not unreasonable question - the Google search gave it as a suggested
question arising from the initial question
Post by BR
Post by Rich80105
So all of that means that a problem with the housing market has led to
calls from the National Party for the government to bail out those who
are disadvantaged by that market failure - is that your understanding
of capitalism, Bill?
You seem incapable of writing anything that is not party political.
You can't define capitalism and neither can Google.
I would be interested in your version, Bill. Do you disagree with the
import of the words I have quoted from Google above - even if long
winded and plagiarised . . .?
Yet nothing about how "Capitalism"creates jobs and opportunities Rich.
Already a given since both jobs and opportunities are inherently integral and indispensable to capitalism - ergo, a defining characteristic.

Try again.
John Bowes
2021-03-25 01:58:45 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by James Christophers
Post by John Bowes
Post by BR
Post by Rich80105
Post by BR
On Tue, 23 Mar 2021 15:37:01 -0700 (PDT), James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by BR
Post by Gordon
Well Jacinda has spoken.
Capitalism never solves its problems, just shifts them someplace else.
What is "capitalism"?
That which, when failed, is repeatedly rescued and restored by the ever-present ready-at-hand ethos of socialism.
That is your opinion, but what is it? Can you define it?
Bill.
Your friend, not mine.
Post by Rich80105
"an economic and political system in which a country's trade and
industry are controlled by private owners for profit, rather than by
the state.
"an era of free-market capitalism"
or "Capitalism is an economic system in which private individuals or
businesses own capital goods. The production of goods and services is
based on supply and demand in the general market—known as a market
economy—rather than through central planning—known as a planned
economy or command economy."
Long winded plagiarised nonsense.
Where was it plagiarised from, Bill? It seems fairly short to me.
Post by BR
Post by Rich80105
Individual capitalists are typically wealthy people who have a large
amount of capital (money or other financial assets) invested in
business, and who benefit from the system of capitalism by making
increased profits and thereby adding to their wealth.
A politically biased answer to a question that wasn't asked.
A not unreasonable question - the Google search gave it as a suggested
question arising from the initial question
Post by BR
Post by Rich80105
So all of that means that a problem with the housing market has led to
calls from the National Party for the government to bail out those who
are disadvantaged by that market failure - is that your understanding
of capitalism, Bill?
You seem incapable of writing anything that is not party political.
You can't define capitalism and neither can Google.
I would be interested in your version, Bill. Do you disagree with the
import of the words I have quoted from Google above - even if long
winded and plagiarised . . .?
Yet nothing about how "Capitalism"creates jobs and opportunities Rich.
Already a given since both jobs and opportunities are inherently integral and indispensable to capitalism - ergo, a defining characteristic.
Try again.
Why? I got it right so why imitate you and make an utter fool of myself Keith. Besides it wasn't for your edification but your tail gunner Rich of the lack of comprehension and a bias as big as yours!
James Christophers
2021-03-25 02:39:36 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by James Christophers
Post by John Bowes
Post by BR
Post by Rich80105
Post by BR
On Tue, 23 Mar 2021 15:37:01 -0700 (PDT), James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by BR
Post by Gordon
Well Jacinda has spoken.
Capitalism never solves its problems, just shifts them someplace else.
What is "capitalism"?
That which, when failed, is repeatedly rescued and restored by the ever-present ready-at-hand ethos of socialism.
That is your opinion, but what is it? Can you define it?
Bill.
Your friend, not mine.
Post by Rich80105
"an economic and political system in which a country's trade and
industry are controlled by private owners for profit, rather than by
the state.
"an era of free-market capitalism"
or "Capitalism is an economic system in which private individuals or
businesses own capital goods. The production of goods and services is
based on supply and demand in the general market—known as a market
economy—rather than through central planning—known as a planned
economy or command economy."
Long winded plagiarised nonsense.
Where was it plagiarised from, Bill? It seems fairly short to me.
Post by BR
Post by Rich80105
Individual capitalists are typically wealthy people who have a large
amount of capital (money or other financial assets) invested in
business, and who benefit from the system of capitalism by making
increased profits and thereby adding to their wealth.
A politically biased answer to a question that wasn't asked.
A not unreasonable question - the Google search gave it as a suggested
question arising from the initial question
Post by BR
Post by Rich80105
So all of that means that a problem with the housing market has led to
calls from the National Party for the government to bail out those who
are disadvantaged by that market failure - is that your understanding
of capitalism, Bill?
You seem incapable of writing anything that is not party political.
You can't define capitalism and neither can Google.
I would be interested in your version, Bill. Do you disagree with the
import of the words I have quoted from Google above - even if long
winded and plagiarised . . .?
Yet nothing about how "Capitalism"creates jobs and opportunities Rich.
Already a given since both jobs and opportunities are inherently integral and indispensable to capitalism - ergo, a defining characteristic.
Try again.
Why? I got it right.
I've shown you why your post was - and can only be - pointless and therefore redundant.

Ergo, try another tack and see if you can get **that** right, thereby adding actual value to the discourse.

Otherwise, go boil your head.
John Bowes
2021-03-25 03:46:38 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by John Bowes
Post by BR
Post by Rich80105
Post by BR
On Tue, 23 Mar 2021 15:37:01 -0700 (PDT), James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by BR
Post by Gordon
Well Jacinda has spoken.
Capitalism never solves its problems, just shifts them someplace else.
What is "capitalism"?
That which, when failed, is repeatedly rescued and restored by the ever-present ready-at-hand ethos of socialism.
That is your opinion, but what is it? Can you define it?
Bill.
Your friend, not mine.
Post by Rich80105
"an economic and political system in which a country's trade and
industry are controlled by private owners for profit, rather than by
the state.
"an era of free-market capitalism"
or "Capitalism is an economic system in which private individuals or
businesses own capital goods. The production of goods and services is
based on supply and demand in the general market—known as a market
economy—rather than through central planning—known as a planned
economy or command economy."
Long winded plagiarised nonsense.
Where was it plagiarised from, Bill? It seems fairly short to me.
Post by BR
Post by Rich80105
Individual capitalists are typically wealthy people who have a large
amount of capital (money or other financial assets) invested in
business, and who benefit from the system of capitalism by making
increased profits and thereby adding to their wealth.
A politically biased answer to a question that wasn't asked.
A not unreasonable question - the Google search gave it as a suggested
question arising from the initial question
Post by BR
Post by Rich80105
So all of that means that a problem with the housing market has led to
calls from the National Party for the government to bail out those who
are disadvantaged by that market failure - is that your understanding
of capitalism, Bill?
You seem incapable of writing anything that is not party political.
You can't define capitalism and neither can Google.
I would be interested in your version, Bill. Do you disagree with the
import of the words I have quoted from Google above - even if long
winded and plagiarised . . .?
Yet nothing about how "Capitalism"creates jobs and opportunities Rich.
Already a given since both jobs and opportunities are inherently integral and indispensable to capitalism - ergo, a defining characteristic.
Try again.
Why? I got it right.
I've shown you why your post was - and can only be - pointless and therefore redundant.
Ergo, try another tack and see if you can get **that** right, thereby adding actual value to the discourse.
Otherwise, go boil your head.
Stop being a fucking idiot Keith! as to boiling my head, you go first :)
Rich80105
2021-03-25 03:33:43 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Wed, 24 Mar 2021 17:11:38 -0700 (PDT), James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by John Bowes
Post by BR
Post by Rich80105
Post by BR
On Tue, 23 Mar 2021 15:37:01 -0700 (PDT), James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by BR
Post by Gordon
Well Jacinda has spoken.
Capitalism never solves its problems, just shifts them someplace else.
What is "capitalism"?
That which, when failed, is repeatedly rescued and restored by the ever-present ready-at-hand ethos of socialism.
That is your opinion, but what is it? Can you define it?
Bill.
Your friend, not mine.
Post by Rich80105
"an economic and political system in which a country's trade and
industry are controlled by private owners for profit, rather than by
the state.
"an era of free-market capitalism"
or "Capitalism is an economic system in which private individuals or
businesses own capital goods. The production of goods and services is
based on supply and demand in the general market—known as a market
economy—rather than through central planning—known as a planned
economy or command economy."
Long winded plagiarised nonsense.
Where was it plagiarised from, Bill? It seems fairly short to me.
Post by BR
Post by Rich80105
Individual capitalists are typically wealthy people who have a large
amount of capital (money or other financial assets) invested in
business, and who benefit from the system of capitalism by making
increased profits and thereby adding to their wealth.
A politically biased answer to a question that wasn't asked.
A not unreasonable question - the Google search gave it as a suggested
question arising from the initial question
Post by BR
Post by Rich80105
So all of that means that a problem with the housing market has led to
calls from the National Party for the government to bail out those who
are disadvantaged by that market failure - is that your understanding
of capitalism, Bill?
You seem incapable of writing anything that is not party political.
You can't define capitalism and neither can Google.
I would be interested in your version, Bill. Do you disagree with the
import of the words I have quoted from Google above - even if long
winded and plagiarised . . .?
Yet nothing about how "Capitalism"creates jobs and opportunities Rich.
Already a given since both jobs and opportunities are inherently integral and indispensable to capitalism - ergo, a defining characteristic.
Try again.
The creation of jobs and opportunities is probably integral to any
functioning economic system of whatever type - but I am sure the
Tourism workers in Queenstown are eagerly waiting for capitalism to
create those new jobs, John Bowes. I suspect however that they are
grateful in the meantime for the payments from Government under the
Covid economic programme that has cost the country many millions of
dollars; but that is really a transition issue, isn't it. I will await
with interest to see how capitalism creates new jobs in Queenstown . .
.
John Bowes
2021-03-25 03:49:50 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 24 Mar 2021 17:11:38 -0700 (PDT), James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by John Bowes
Post by BR
Post by Rich80105
Post by BR
On Tue, 23 Mar 2021 15:37:01 -0700 (PDT), James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by BR
Post by Gordon
Well Jacinda has spoken.
Capitalism never solves its problems, just shifts them someplace else.
What is "capitalism"?
That which, when failed, is repeatedly rescued and restored by the ever-present ready-at-hand ethos of socialism.
That is your opinion, but what is it? Can you define it?
Bill.
Your friend, not mine.
Post by Rich80105
"an economic and political system in which a country's trade and
industry are controlled by private owners for profit, rather than by
the state.
"an era of free-market capitalism"
or "Capitalism is an economic system in which private individuals or
businesses own capital goods. The production of goods and services is
based on supply and demand in the general market—known as a market
economy—rather than through central planning—known as a planned
economy or command economy."
Long winded plagiarised nonsense.
Where was it plagiarised from, Bill? It seems fairly short to me.
Post by BR
Post by Rich80105
Individual capitalists are typically wealthy people who have a large
amount of capital (money or other financial assets) invested in
business, and who benefit from the system of capitalism by making
increased profits and thereby adding to their wealth.
A politically biased answer to a question that wasn't asked.
A not unreasonable question - the Google search gave it as a suggested
question arising from the initial question
Post by BR
Post by Rich80105
So all of that means that a problem with the housing market has led to
calls from the National Party for the government to bail out those who
are disadvantaged by that market failure - is that your understanding
of capitalism, Bill?
You seem incapable of writing anything that is not party political.
You can't define capitalism and neither can Google.
I would be interested in your version, Bill. Do you disagree with the
import of the words I have quoted from Google above - even if long
winded and plagiarised . . .?
Yet nothing about how "Capitalism"creates jobs and opportunities Rich.
Already a given since both jobs and opportunities are inherently integral and indispensable to capitalism - ergo, a defining characteristic.
Try again.
The creation of jobs and opportunities is probably integral to any
functioning economic system of whatever type - but I am sure the
Tourism workers in Queenstown are eagerly waiting for capitalism to
create those new jobs, John Bowes. I suspect however that they are
grateful in the meantime for the payments from Government under the
Covid economic programme that has cost the country many millions of
dollars; but that is really a transition issue, isn't it. I will await
with interest to see how capitalism creates new jobs in Queenstown . .
.
Not up to capitalism to get Queenstown going Rich. That's up to the stupid bitch who's your glorious leader and the muppets she bosses around! She's like you and Keith Rich. Dumb as pig shit!
btw what exactly is the "bright line test"supposed to do apart from putting more money into treasury so Ardern and the commissars can blow it on pointless bloody shit like the Auckland bridge bike way which has just been canned /
James Christophers
2021-03-25 05:28:07 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by John Bowes
Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 24 Mar 2021 17:11:38 -0700 (PDT), James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by John Bowes
Post by BR
Post by Rich80105
Post by BR
On Tue, 23 Mar 2021 15:37:01 -0700 (PDT), James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by BR
Post by Gordon
Well Jacinda has spoken.
Capitalism never solves its problems, just shifts them someplace else.
What is "capitalism"?
That which, when failed, is repeatedly rescued and restored by the ever-present ready-at-hand ethos of socialism.
That is your opinion, but what is it? Can you define it?
Bill.
Your friend, not mine.
Post by Rich80105
"an economic and political system in which a country's trade and
industry are controlled by private owners for profit, rather than by
the state.
"an era of free-market capitalism"
or "Capitalism is an economic system in which private individuals or
businesses own capital goods. The production of goods and services is
based on supply and demand in the general market—known as a market
economy—rather than through central planning—known as a planned
economy or command economy."
Long winded plagiarised nonsense.
Where was it plagiarised from, Bill? It seems fairly short to me.
Post by BR
Post by Rich80105
Individual capitalists are typically wealthy people who have a large
amount of capital (money or other financial assets) invested in
business, and who benefit from the system of capitalism by making
increased profits and thereby adding to their wealth.
A politically biased answer to a question that wasn't asked.
A not unreasonable question - the Google search gave it as a suggested
question arising from the initial question
Post by BR
Post by Rich80105
So all of that means that a problem with the housing market has led to
calls from the National Party for the government to bail out those who
are disadvantaged by that market failure - is that your understanding
of capitalism, Bill?
You seem incapable of writing anything that is not party political.
You can't define capitalism and neither can Google.
I would be interested in your version, Bill. Do you disagree with the
import of the words I have quoted from Google above - even if long
winded and plagiarised . . .?
Yet nothing about how "Capitalism"creates jobs and opportunities Rich.
Already a given since both jobs and opportunities are inherently integral and indispensable to capitalism - ergo, a defining characteristic.
Try again.
The creation of jobs and opportunities is probably integral to any
functioning economic system of whatever type - but I am sure the
Tourism workers in Queenstown are eagerly waiting for capitalism to
create those new jobs, John Bowes. I suspect however that they are
grateful in the meantime for the payments from Government under the
Covid economic programme that has cost the country many millions of
dollars; but that is really a transition issue, isn't it. I will await
with interest to see how capitalism creates new jobs in Queenstown . .
.
Not up to capitalism to get Queenstown going Rich. That's up to the stupid bitch who's your glorious leader and the muppets she bosses around! She's like you and Keith Rich. Dumb as pig shit!
btw what exactly is the "bright line test"supposed to do
No more than its rightful intended purpose that only the thickest of the thick could fail to understand and appreciate.
John Bowes
2021-03-25 07:25:30 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by James Christophers
Post by John Bowes
Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 24 Mar 2021 17:11:38 -0700 (PDT), James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by John Bowes
Post by BR
Post by Rich80105
Post by BR
On Tue, 23 Mar 2021 15:37:01 -0700 (PDT), James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by BR
Post by Gordon
Well Jacinda has spoken.
Capitalism never solves its problems, just shifts them someplace else.
What is "capitalism"?
That which, when failed, is repeatedly rescued and restored by the ever-present ready-at-hand ethos of socialism.
That is your opinion, but what is it? Can you define it?
Bill.
Your friend, not mine.
Post by Rich80105
"an economic and political system in which a country's trade and
industry are controlled by private owners for profit, rather than by
the state.
"an era of free-market capitalism"
or "Capitalism is an economic system in which private individuals or
businesses own capital goods. The production of goods and services is
based on supply and demand in the general market—known as a market
economy—rather than through central planning—known as a planned
economy or command economy."
Long winded plagiarised nonsense.
Where was it plagiarised from, Bill? It seems fairly short to me.
Post by BR
Post by Rich80105
Individual capitalists are typically wealthy people who have a large
amount of capital (money or other financial assets) invested in
business, and who benefit from the system of capitalism by making
increased profits and thereby adding to their wealth.
A politically biased answer to a question that wasn't asked.
A not unreasonable question - the Google search gave it as a suggested
question arising from the initial question
Post by BR
Post by Rich80105
So all of that means that a problem with the housing market has led to
calls from the National Party for the government to bail out those who
are disadvantaged by that market failure - is that your understanding
of capitalism, Bill?
You seem incapable of writing anything that is not party political.
You can't define capitalism and neither can Google.
I would be interested in your version, Bill. Do you disagree with the
import of the words I have quoted from Google above - even if long
winded and plagiarised . . .?
Yet nothing about how "Capitalism"creates jobs and opportunities Rich.
Already a given since both jobs and opportunities are inherently integral and indispensable to capitalism - ergo, a defining characteristic.
Try again.
The creation of jobs and opportunities is probably integral to any
functioning economic system of whatever type - but I am sure the
Tourism workers in Queenstown are eagerly waiting for capitalism to
create those new jobs, John Bowes. I suspect however that they are
grateful in the meantime for the payments from Government under the
Covid economic programme that has cost the country many millions of
dollars; but that is really a transition issue, isn't it. I will await
with interest to see how capitalism creates new jobs in Queenstown . .
.
Not up to capitalism to get Queenstown going Rich. That's up to the stupid bitch who's your glorious leader and the muppets she bosses around! She's like you and Keith Rich. Dumb as pig shit!
btw what exactly is the "bright line test"supposed to do
No more than its rightful intended purpose that only the thickest of the thick could fail to understand and appreciate.
What rightful intended purpose? It didn't work for National and only someone suffering from an overbearing belief in his own superior intellect would see it as nothing more than CGT writ large and as a result with no chance of solving the housing crisis.
Rich80105
2021-03-25 08:01:18 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Thu, 25 Mar 2021 00:25:30 -0700 (PDT), John Bowes
Post by John Bowes
Post by James Christophers
Post by John Bowes
Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 24 Mar 2021 17:11:38 -0700 (PDT), James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by John Bowes
Post by BR
Post by Rich80105
Post by BR
On Tue, 23 Mar 2021 15:37:01 -0700 (PDT), James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by BR
Post by Gordon
Well Jacinda has spoken.
Capitalism never solves its problems, just shifts them someplace else.
What is "capitalism"?
That which, when failed, is repeatedly rescued and restored by the ever-present ready-at-hand ethos of socialism.
That is your opinion, but what is it? Can you define it?
Bill.
Your friend, not mine.
Post by Rich80105
"an economic and political system in which a country's trade and
industry are controlled by private owners for profit, rather than by
the state.
"an era of free-market capitalism"
or "Capitalism is an economic system in which private individuals or
businesses own capital goods. The production of goods and services is
based on supply and demand in the general market—known as a market
economy—rather than through central planning—known as a planned
economy or command economy."
Long winded plagiarised nonsense.
Where was it plagiarised from, Bill? It seems fairly short to me.
Post by BR
Post by Rich80105
Individual capitalists are typically wealthy people who have a large
amount of capital (money or other financial assets) invested in
business, and who benefit from the system of capitalism by making
increased profits and thereby adding to their wealth.
A politically biased answer to a question that wasn't asked.
A not unreasonable question - the Google search gave it as a suggested
question arising from the initial question
Post by BR
Post by Rich80105
So all of that means that a problem with the housing market has led to
calls from the National Party for the government to bail out those who
are disadvantaged by that market failure - is that your understanding
of capitalism, Bill?
You seem incapable of writing anything that is not party political.
You can't define capitalism and neither can Google.
I would be interested in your version, Bill. Do you disagree with the
import of the words I have quoted from Google above - even if long
winded and plagiarised . . .?
Yet nothing about how "Capitalism"creates jobs and opportunities Rich.
Already a given since both jobs and opportunities are inherently integral and indispensable to capitalism - ergo, a defining characteristic.
Try again.
The creation of jobs and opportunities is probably integral to any
functioning economic system of whatever type - but I am sure the
Tourism workers in Queenstown are eagerly waiting for capitalism to
create those new jobs, John Bowes. I suspect however that they are
grateful in the meantime for the payments from Government under the
Covid economic programme that has cost the country many millions of
dollars; but that is really a transition issue, isn't it. I will await
with interest to see how capitalism creates new jobs in Queenstown . .
.
Not up to capitalism to get Queenstown going Rich.
Someone said a few posts ago: ".. nothing about how
"Capitalism"creates jobs and opportunities "

And now you are saying that it's not up to capitalism to do just that.
What a disappointment!
Post by John Bowes
Post by James Christophers
Post by John Bowes
That's up to the stupid bitch who's your glorious leader and the muppets she bosses around! She's like you and Keith Rich. Dumb as pig shit!
btw what exactly is the "bright line test"supposed to do
No more than its rightful intended purpose that only the thickest of the thick could fail to understand and appreciate.
What rightful intended purpose? It didn't work for National and only someone suffering from an overbearing belief in his own superior intellect would see it as nothing more than CGT writ large and as a result with no chance of solving the housing crisis.
And there National were saying it had worked! Yet another
disappointment . . . Of course they set the time period so short
that only the stupid or those making a shit load of money would not be
prepared to wait. . . .
John Bowes
2021-03-25 10:16:33 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 25 Mar 2021 00:25:30 -0700 (PDT), John Bowes
Post by John Bowes
Post by James Christophers
Post by John Bowes
Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 24 Mar 2021 17:11:38 -0700 (PDT), James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by John Bowes
Post by BR
Post by Rich80105
Post by BR
On Tue, 23 Mar 2021 15:37:01 -0700 (PDT), James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by BR
Post by Gordon
Well Jacinda has spoken.
Capitalism never solves its problems, just shifts them someplace else.
What is "capitalism"?
That which, when failed, is repeatedly rescued and restored by the ever-present ready-at-hand ethos of socialism.
That is your opinion, but what is it? Can you define it?
Bill.
Your friend, not mine.
Post by Rich80105
"an economic and political system in which a country's trade and
industry are controlled by private owners for profit, rather than by
the state.
"an era of free-market capitalism"
or "Capitalism is an economic system in which private individuals or
businesses own capital goods. The production of goods and services is
based on supply and demand in the general market—known as a market
economy—rather than through central planning—known as a planned
economy or command economy."
Long winded plagiarised nonsense.
Where was it plagiarised from, Bill? It seems fairly short to me.
Post by BR
Post by Rich80105
Individual capitalists are typically wealthy people who have a large
amount of capital (money or other financial assets) invested in
business, and who benefit from the system of capitalism by making
increased profits and thereby adding to their wealth.
A politically biased answer to a question that wasn't asked.
A not unreasonable question - the Google search gave it as a suggested
question arising from the initial question
Post by BR
Post by Rich80105
So all of that means that a problem with the housing market has led to
calls from the National Party for the government to bail out those who
are disadvantaged by that market failure - is that your understanding
of capitalism, Bill?
You seem incapable of writing anything that is not party political.
You can't define capitalism and neither can Google.
I would be interested in your version, Bill. Do you disagree with the
import of the words I have quoted from Google above - even if long
winded and plagiarised . . .?
Yet nothing about how "Capitalism"creates jobs and opportunities Rich.
Already a given since both jobs and opportunities are inherently integral and indispensable to capitalism - ergo, a defining characteristic.
Try again.
The creation of jobs and opportunities is probably integral to any
functioning economic system of whatever type - but I am sure the
Tourism workers in Queenstown are eagerly waiting for capitalism to
create those new jobs, John Bowes. I suspect however that they are
grateful in the meantime for the payments from Government under the
Covid economic programme that has cost the country many millions of
dollars; but that is really a transition issue, isn't it. I will await
with interest to see how capitalism creates new jobs in Queenstown . .
.
Not up to capitalism to get Queenstown going Rich.
Someone said a few posts ago: ".. nothing about how
"Capitalism"creates jobs and opportunities "
And now you are saying that it's not up to capitalism to do just that.
What a disappointment!
Till your stupid leader gets off her fanny nothing can happen in Queenstown you stupid Marxist muppet! Got nothing to do with Capitalism as long as Adern screws around with the Tasman bubble!
Post by Rich80105
Post by John Bowes
Post by James Christophers
Post by John Bowes
That's up to the stupid bitch who's your glorious leader and the muppets she bosses around! She's like you and Keith Rich. Dumb as pig shit!
btw what exactly is the "bright line test"supposed to do
No more than its rightful intended purpose that only the thickest of the thick could fail to understand and appreciate.
What rightful intended purpose? It didn't work for National and only someone suffering from an overbearing belief in his own superior intellect would see it as nothing more than CGT writ large and as a result with no chance of solving the housing crisis.
And there National were saying it had worked! Yet another
disappointment . . . Of course they set the time period so short
that only the stupid or those making a shit load of money would not be
prepared to wait. . . .
When did National ever say it worked Rich? House prices have been soaring since Clark was in power. It didn't work then and whether it is ten or twenty years it ain't going to help a single new home buyer or people needing accommodation! KiwiBuild would put more houses in the country if Labour actually had any organisation abilities or common sense. The bright line is only liable to put desperately needed money in treasury coffers. It's a CGT! No more and no less and Keith knows it!
James Christophers
2021-03-25 21:59:38 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by James Christophers
Post by John Bowes
Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 24 Mar 2021 17:11:38 -0700 (PDT), James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by John Bowes
Post by BR
Post by Rich80105
Post by BR
On Tue, 23 Mar 2021 15:37:01 -0700 (PDT), James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by BR
Post by Gordon
Well Jacinda has spoken.
Capitalism never solves its problems, just shifts them someplace else.
What is "capitalism"?
That which, when failed, is repeatedly rescued and restored by the ever-present ready-at-hand ethos of socialism.
That is your opinion, but what is it? Can you define it?
Bill.
Your friend, not mine.
Post by Rich80105
"an economic and political system in which a country's trade and
industry are controlled by private owners for profit, rather than by
the state.
"an era of free-market capitalism"
or "Capitalism is an economic system in which private individuals or
businesses own capital goods. The production of goods and services is
based on supply and demand in the general market—known as a market
economy—rather than through central planning—known as a planned
economy or command economy."
Long winded plagiarised nonsense.
Where was it plagiarised from, Bill? It seems fairly short to me.
Post by BR
Post by Rich80105
Individual capitalists are typically wealthy people who have a large
amount of capital (money or other financial assets) invested in
business, and who benefit from the system of capitalism by making
increased profits and thereby adding to their wealth.
A politically biased answer to a question that wasn't asked.
A not unreasonable question - the Google search gave it as a suggested
question arising from the initial question
Post by BR
Post by Rich80105
So all of that means that a problem with the housing market has led to
calls from the National Party for the government to bail out those who
are disadvantaged by that market failure - is that your understanding
of capitalism, Bill?
You seem incapable of writing anything that is not party political.
You can't define capitalism and neither can Google.
I would be interested in your version, Bill. Do you disagree with the
import of the words I have quoted from Google above - even if long
winded and plagiarised . . .?
Yet nothing about how "Capitalism"creates jobs and opportunities Rich.
Already a given since both jobs and opportunities are inherently integral and indispensable to capitalism - ergo, a defining characteristic.
Try again.
The creation of jobs and opportunities is probably integral to any
functioning economic system of whatever type - but I am sure the
Tourism workers in Queenstown are eagerly waiting for capitalism to
create those new jobs, John Bowes. I suspect however that they are
grateful in the meantime for the payments from Government under the
Covid economic programme that has cost the country many millions of
dollars; but that is really a transition issue, isn't it. I will await
with interest to see how capitalism creates new jobs in Queenstown . .
.
Not up to capitalism to get Queenstown going Rich. That's up to the stupid bitch who's your glorious leader and the muppets she bosses around! She's like you and Keith Rich. Dumb as pig shit!
btw what exactly is the "bright line test"supposed to do
No more than its rightful intended purpose that only the thickest of the thick could fail to understand and appreciate.
Call it a capital gains tax or any other name you care to dream up, but in the end it’s a tax on a category that until now has escaped the same tax régime that otherwise applies to virtually every other form of speculative investment. A glaring anomaly that has been **the** major inducement to the gross exploitation of every New Zealander - yes, including you - beyond the bounds of decency and fairness with the calculating speculator as sole “winner”. It also risks destabilising the entire economy and the signs are already plain.

Again, if New Zealand is to continue bigging itself up to the rest of the world as a nation of equal opportunity, then the elimination of this tax anomaly is plainly long overdue.

I suspect the majority of New Zealanders welcome this initiative in the name of equity and social justice I am with them 100%, notwithstanding my concerns about the possible future "negatives".

In principle, the ending of tax relief on the landlord’s maintenance costs is also both right and proper. However passed off as “business”, the majority of today’s landlords are manifestly solely and intentionally in speculation for (until now) tax-free gains, using their tenant’s **taxed** earnings to pay their mortgages for them, thereby downstream funding the further collateral the landlord needs to make the next speculative purchase. So it is perfectly right and proper for the landlord to pay the costs of maintaining the mechanism by which he profits.
BR
2021-03-26 19:36:33 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
I would be interested in your version, Bill.
Why would you think I would have a version?

The word "capitalism" is meaningless. It is a word that did not exist
before Karl Marx, who invented it as a pejorative epithet for private
property rights. It is part of the propaganda Marx used to give form
and substance to state theft of private property.

You see, buying, selling and trading are as much part of human life as
eating and sleeping. It is what people do and comes naturally to
everyone. "Capitalism" is as meaningless a word as "eatism" or
"sleepism".

"Capitalism" is NOT a system of government. If you want to live in a
world without property rights, you will need a dictator to suppress
them. Fortunately for people like you, there are many such people who
are doing just that. Unfortunately for everyone else, there many
people like you who, instead of moving to one of those countries where
the state does not respect property rights, you choose to live in NZ
and throw in with those who are incrementally destroying them here.

You can have property rights without freedom, but you can't have
freeedom without property rights.

Bill.
--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com
Tony
2021-03-26 23:13:49 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by BR
Post by Rich80105
I would be interested in your version, Bill.
Why would you think I would have a version?
The word "capitalism" is meaningless. It is a word that did not exist
before Karl Marx, who invented it as a pejorative epithet for private
property rights. It is part of the propaganda Marx used to give form
and substance to state theft of private property.
Exactly.
Post by BR
You see, buying, selling and trading are as much part of human life as
eating and sleeping. It is what people do and comes naturally to
everyone. "Capitalism" is as meaningless a word as "eatism" or
"sleepism".
"Capitalism" is NOT a system of government. If you want to live in a
world without property rights, you will need a dictator to suppress
them. Fortunately for people like you, there are many such people who
are doing just that. Unfortunately for everyone else, there many
people like you who, instead of moving to one of those countries where
the state does not respect property rights, you choose to live in NZ
and throw in with those who are incrementally destroying them here.
You can have property rights without freedom, but you can't have
freeedom without property rights.
Bill.
--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com
James Christophers
2021-03-27 01:38:11 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by BR
Post by Rich80105
I would be interested in your version, Bill.
Why would you think I would have a version?
The word "capitalism" is meaningless.
It is a word that did not exist
before Karl Marx, who invented it as a pejorative epithet for private
property rights. It is part of the propaganda Marx used to give form
and substance to state theft of private property.
The term "Capitalism" was coined by French socialist Louis Blanc in 1850. The term signifies a system of exclusive ownership of industrial means of production by private individuals rather than shared ownership. (It is derived from the original Latin, "capitalis," which means "head of cattle"— hence "chattels" et al.)

Perjorative epithet? Marx wrote Das Capital 17 years later in 1867. He borrowed Louis Blanc's term to compare, or contrast it with the different - some would say opposing - system of economic management that he was proposing, imperfect though this turned out to be in practice. Although Marx was a known admirer of capitalism as a philosophy, he nevertheless laid bare the crucial fault that lay within capitalism itself as practised: its defining tendency to dog-eat-dog compete within itself to its own inevitable evisceration, taking down with it the labour force that has crucially sustained it[1]. Later, each time this has happened during the 20th century (and early 21st) it has been bailed out, pasting over yet again those same systemic faults and "poor" practices that Marx had initially identified - bailed out, mark you, by the only possible means available - the many precepts and practices of what we know today as welfare socialism.

[1] The rapid mass dumping of mass labour with the rise of Britain's newly-automated industries was the trigger for the rapid mass immigration from Britain to New Zealand, starting in about 1830. (ref. Tony Simpson's "The Immigrants" - Chapter Two, "The state of Britain in 1830.) The success of Britain's Industrial Revolution capitalism had also brought with it the hardship poverty and destitution heaped on those that had loyally served it but for which it no longer had any use.

Quite possibly, your forebears - themselves undeserving victims of ruthless capitalism's essential sociopathy - were among them.
Post by BR
You see, buying, selling and trading are as much part of human life as
eating and sleeping. It is what people do and comes naturally to
everyone. "Capitalism" is as meaningless a word as "eatism" or
"sleepism".
"...ism" is described as a distinctive practice, system, or philosophy. It can be applied equally to eating, sleeping or, in this instance, an economic philosophy based on the deployment and exploiting of, and profiting from, capital.
Post by BR
"Capitalism" is NOT a system of government. If you want to live in a
world without property rights, you will need a dictator to suppress
them. Fortunately for people like you, there are many such people who
are doing just that. Unfortunately for everyone else, there many
people like you who, instead of moving to one of those countries where
the state does not respect property rights, you choose to live in NZ
and throw in with those who are incrementally destroying them here.
You can have property rights without freedom, but you can't have
freeedom without property rights.
In either case, property rights are anyway subject to a higher authority than the owner of those rights; namely, the Law.

Here, Law is conceived and enacted under a democratically elected parliament. You know full well you are powerless to change this long-cherished system. and until the rest of your life you will have no possible recourse to whatever you would conceive as a better system. It is this lack of any recourse, together with an imaginary threat of personal disempowerment, that aggrieves you most.
James Christophers
2021-03-24 22:16:22 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by BR
On Tue, 23 Mar 2021 15:37:01 -0700 (PDT), James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by BR
Post by Gordon
Well Jacinda has spoken.
Capitalism never solves its problems, just shifts them someplace else.
What is "capitalism"?
That which, when failed, is repeatedly rescued and restored by the ever-present ready-at-hand ethos of socialism.
That is your opinion, but what is it? Can you define it?
Here's one:

"An economic system based on private ownership of property and business, with the goal of making the greatest possible profits for the owners." (Your argument refuting this is...?)

Now for this observer's opinion referring to that key phrase, "the greatest possible profits":

New Zealand's remorseless ratchet-up rentier capitalism[1] is based on the idea that it's OK that un-taxed gain made from zero-productivity activity shall ever-increasingly exceed the ability of the genuinely productive sector of the economy to fund it. This is why taxpayer earnings must be recycled back to the rentier-capitalist's clientèle simply to help keep their heads above water. But this hapless zero-productivity money-go-round policy must rank as economically degenerate when it is not only (partly) caused by those un-taxed profits on systematic speculation (inter-property trading between speculators), but also being stolidly maintained to keep that same systematic un-taxed speculation running on turbo.

[1] Rentier capitalism is a term currently used to describe the belief in economic practices of monopolization of access to any kind of property ("access" in this case being the crucial factor). In New Zealand, it is this increasing monopolisation of access that has led to the current nationwide dilemma.

Yes, there is a perpetual housing shortage, but this is endemic, largely due to decades of misdirected fast-buck capital and too-easy credit, made infinitely worse by New Zealand's stultified mindset. This is chiefly characterised by on-the-fly make-do-and-mend pragmatism rather than any truly long term-planning and forward budgeting.

So, even if only to elevate the consciousness a smidgen, May I refer you to your local library's copy of Len Bayliss's short 1995 book, "Prosperity Mislaid"? "Instructive" doesn't even begin to describe it. Every stricture he makes in Bolger's 1995 applies no less forcefully to New Zealand's economic management today, 25 years later.
James Christophers
2021-03-23 23:01:53 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Gordon
Well Jacinda has spoken.
Capitalism never solves its problems, just shifts them someplace else.
Good to see this experiement being done, or not depending on how it turns
out.
For all those who have been urging the government to "do something", "something" is exactly what they've got. To mix metaphors, the latest initiative is a warts-and-all can of worms and the inevitable cause/consequence scenario will surely develop. It's called crossing bridges only when you come to them.

However, with the current house price/income ratio now being manifestly insupportable to the average first-time buyer, the New Zealand population's combined **real money** wherewithal is nowhere near matching the kind of prices demanded, and in a way that can ever resolve the current housing crisis. In any case, shovelling ever more of that necessarily finite **earned** national wealth into fewer and fewer rentier pockets can never end well. It makes no kind of economic sense now. It never has and it never will. We have arrived at the point where for a government - any government - not to "do something" is for it to be guilty of dereliction of duty; dereliction of duty having been only too evident between 2008 - 2017, a period during which, you will recall, economic conditions had grown considerably more favourable towards a bolder approach to an already ballooning problem of a fast-deteriorating housing and house-price problem.

Returning to current policy: for a start, abolishing tax relief on investment property mortgages is long overdue, particularly when no such relief is accorded to the private home-owner. When combined with the rental support benefit and such tax relief amounts to an investor subsidy. But, if anyone thinks this has always been a good thing for both the landlord's client and New Zealand society as a whole, then perhaps they will kindly explain why?

To end: as if to confer their own qualified imprimaturs on the current government's policies, the ratings agencies and the OECD think and say Ardern and her lot are doing just fine. For now...

Bryce Edwards yesterday:

tinyurl.com/t3h6x5jp
Post by Gordon
Can not see the renters not getting hit though. If landlords have had the
tax write off of the interest and relying on capital gains for investment
they will now be, or up to in 5 years time out of this "income". So it will
be a cost and the landlord will be working for less/no profit. Investment
returns very low/non existant. So house sold, less houses to rent, rents
rise. OR Get loss back by raising the rent until tenants go broke.
Either way the renters have just been taxed by Labour. However this will
be gradual so by then a) Labour will be in opposition and b) Everyone will
have forgotten 23 March 2021 announcement. All good.
Oh yes, in the short term the market will cool as it is in a state of shock
and it was about to cool anyway. Jacina will look good. Grant takes flake
about lying. Yes all good indeed.
Crash
2021-03-24 01:04:14 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Gordon
Well Jacinda has spoken.
Capitalism never solves its problems, just shifts them someplace else.
Cheap shot - 'Capitalism' is so many things your claim is meaningless
without context.
Post by Gordon
Good to see this experiement being done, or not depending on how it turns
out.
Can not see the renters not getting hit though.
You bet - at long as there are more renters than available rental
properties.
Post by Gordon
If landlords have had the
tax write off of the interest
When your business involves the use of debt (in any form) the cost of
that debt is a legitimate business expense. Given that businesses are
taxed on profits, interest is a legitimate expense. The government
has chosen to prohibit interest as a legitimate business expense for
landlords.
Post by Gordon
and relying on capital gains for investment
they will now be, or up to in 5 years time out of this "income". So it will
be a cost and the landlord will be working for less/no profit. Investment
returns very low/non existant. So house sold, less houses to rent, rents
rise. OR Get loss back by raising the rent until tenants go broke.
Either way the renters have just been taxed by Labour. However this will
be gradual so by then a) Labour will be in opposition and b) Everyone will
have forgotten 23 March 2021 announcement. All good.
Oh yes, in the short term the market will cool as it is in a state of shock
and it was about to cool anyway. Jacina will look good. Grant takes flake
about lying. Yes all good indeed.
You forgot to include an effective Parliamentary opposition in this.
We might not have one, but if we do it will be reminding us of the
effects of yesterdays pronouncements forever until they are elected.


--
Crash McBash
Loading...