Discussion:
If it was a private landlord, the state's sanction would be crushing
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JohnO
2021-07-08 21:35:42 UTC
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https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300351338/auckland-pensioners-in-the-cold-as-kinga-ora-halts-healthy-homes-heating-work

But the government, despite all its resources, gets a free pass.

New Zealand, the way you've got it.
JohnO
2021-07-08 21:38:49 UTC
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Permalink
Post by JohnO
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300351338/auckland-pensioners-in-the-cold-as-kinga-ora-halts-healthy-homes-heating-work
But the government, despite all its resources, gets a free pass.
New Zealand, the way you've got it.
So the heat pumps get installed on change of tenancy. IOW when the incumbent dies.

How's that for "kindness", eh?
Rich80105
2021-07-09 04:15:05 UTC
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Permalink
Post by JohnO
Post by JohnO
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300351338/auckland-pensioners-in-the-cold-as-kinga-ora-halts-healthy-homes-heating-work
But the government, despite all its resources, gets a free pass.
New Zealand, the way you've got it.
So the heat pumps get installed on change of tenancy. IOW when the incumbent dies.
or as the article points out when they move for whatever reason -
there are logistical issues for both state and private landlords, but
the rules do not appear to be any different.
Post by JohnO
How's that for "kindness", eh?
As kind as a private landlord may not be asking much - was that your
point, JohnO?
James Christophers
2021-07-09 01:30:33 UTC
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Permalink
Post by JohnO
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300351338/auckland-pensioners-in-the-cold-as-kinga-ora-halts-healthy-homes-heating-work
But the government, despite all its resources, gets a free pass.
All? Any government's resources must inevitably become increasingly meagre when for decades per-capita productivity remains stagnant while demands both on the national exchequer and the parasitic 100% zero-productivity rentier class continue to increase unencumbered.

New Zealand can't afford itself. Fact is, it never has been able to over the past 40 - 50 years - e.g., borrowing from foreign financiers to pay WFF, and/or to award tax credits, to three-car over-breeders with incomes well over $100,000 is total economic nonsense, the culpability for this madness being equally and shamelessly shared between National and Labour.

Read Len Bayliss's "Prosperity Mislaid" (1994) to appreciate the dismal truth of what the people of this country have made of themselves - not that New Zealand is in any way unique in this.
James Christophers
2021-07-09 01:32:47 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by James Christophers
Post by JohnO
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300351338/auckland-pensioners-in-the-cold-as-kinga-ora-halts-healthy-homes-heating-work
But the government, despite all its resources, gets a free pass.
All? Any government's resources must inevitably become increasingly meagre when for decades per-capita productivity remains stagnant while demands both on the national exchequer and
from
Post by James Christophers
the parasitic 100% zero-productivity rentier class continue to increase unencumbered.
New Zealand can't afford itself. Fact is, it never has been able to over the past 40 - 50 years - e.g., borrowing from foreign financiers to pay WFF, and/or to award tax credits, to three-car over-breeders with incomes well over $100,000 is total economic nonsense, the culpability for this madness being equally and shamelessly shared between National and Labour.
Read Len Bayliss's "Prosperity Mislaid" (1994) to appreciate the dismal truth of what the people of this country have made of themselves - not that New Zealand is in any way unique in this.
Euripides
2021-07-09 02:51:25 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by James Christophers
Post by JohnO
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300351338/auckland-pensioners-in-the-cold-as-kinga-ora-halts-healthy-homes-heating-work
But the government, despite all its resources, gets a free pass.
All? Any government's resources must inevitably become increasingly meagre when for decades per-capita productivity remains stagnant while demands both on the national exchequer and
from
Post by James Christophers
the parasitic 100% zero-productivity rentier class continue to increase unencumbered.
New Zealand can't afford itself. Fact is, it never has been able to over the past 40 - 50 years - e.g., borrowing from foreign financiers to pay WFF, and/or to award tax credits, to three-car over-breeders with incomes well over $100,000 is total economic nonsense, the culpability for this madness being equally and shamelessly shared between National and Labour.
Read Len Bayliss's "Prosperity Mislaid" (1994) to appreciate the dismal truth of what the people of this country have made of themselves - not that New Zealand is in any way unique in this.
Interesting but deserves its own topic, it is off topic in this thread.
Rich80105
2021-07-09 04:25:15 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Euripides
Post by James Christophers
Post by JohnO
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300351338/auckland-pensioners-in-the-cold-as-kinga-ora-halts-healthy-homes-heating-work
But the government, despite all its resources, gets a free pass.
All? Any government's resources must inevitably become increasingly meagre when for decades per-capita productivity remains stagnant while demands both on the national exchequer and
from
Post by James Christophers
the parasitic 100% zero-productivity rentier class continue to increase unencumbered.
New Zealand can't afford itself. Fact is, it never has been able to over the past 40 - 50 years - e.g., borrowing from foreign financiers to pay WFF, and/or to award tax credits, to three-car over-breeders with incomes well over $100,000 is total economic nonsense, the culpability for this madness being equally and shamelessly shared between National and Labour.
Read Len Bayliss's "Prosperity Mislaid" (1994) to appreciate the dismal truth of what the people of this country have made of themselves - not that New Zealand is in any way unique in this.
Interesting but deserves its own topic, it is off topic in this thread.
It is relevant in that we have during those 30 years of 'neo-liberal"
doctrine lost the willingness to recognise the deterioration in the
standard of housing available to lower income New Zealanders, and we
have at the same time run down our capacity to fix many of those
problems.

Those now bleating that everything should have happened yesterday
ignore the reality that we are using our building and associated
trades workers as hard as we can; and whie we can be thankful that the
government moved shortly after the 2017 election to get many people
into training for those roles, they will not be fully trained for some
time - and that to import labour would only exacerbate the problems
that those same people applauded when they were receiving lower tax
rates and pay for workers was not even matching inflation . . .
Euripides
2021-07-09 04:57:41 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
Post by Euripides
Post by James Christophers
Post by JohnO
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300351338/auckland-pensioners-in-the-cold-as-kinga-ora-halts-healthy-homes-heating-work
But the government, despite all its resources, gets a free pass.
All? Any government's resources must inevitably become increasingly meagre when for decades per-capita productivity remains stagnant while demands both on the national exchequer and
from
Post by James Christophers
the parasitic 100% zero-productivity rentier class continue to increase unencumbered.
New Zealand can't afford itself. Fact is, it never has been able to over the past 40 - 50 years - e.g., borrowing from foreign financiers to pay WFF, and/or to award tax credits, to three-car over-breeders with incomes well over $100,000 is total economic nonsense, the culpability for this madness being equally and shamelessly shared between National and Labour.
Read Len Bayliss's "Prosperity Mislaid" (1994) to appreciate the dismal truth of what the people of this country have made of themselves - not that New Zealand is in any way unique in this.
Interesting but deserves its own topic, it is off topic in this thread.
It is relevant in that we have during those 30 years of 'neo-liberal"
doctrine lost the willingness to recognise the deterioration in the
standard of housing available to lower income New Zealanders, and we
have at the same time run down our capacity to fix many of those
No that is not relevant, Ms Clark was not to blame on her own.
Post by Rich80105
problems.
Those now bleating that everything should have happened yesterday
ignore the reality that we are using our building and associated
trades workers as hard as we can; and whie we can be thankful that the
government moved shortly after the 2017 election to get many people
into training for those roles, they will not be fully trained for some
time - and that to import labour would only exacerbate the problems
that those same people applauded when they were receiving lower tax
rates and pay for workers was not even matching inflation . . .
Still off topic.
Rich80105
2021-07-09 05:27:18 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Euripides
Post by Rich80105
Post by Euripides
Post by James Christophers
Post by JohnO
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300351338/auckland-pensioners-in-the-cold-as-kinga-ora-halts-healthy-homes-heating-work
But the government, despite all its resources, gets a free pass.
All? Any government's resources must inevitably become increasingly meagre when for decades per-capita productivity remains stagnant while demands both on the national exchequer and
from
Post by James Christophers
the parasitic 100% zero-productivity rentier class continue to increase unencumbered.
New Zealand can't afford itself. Fact is, it never has been able to over the past 40 - 50 years - e.g., borrowing from foreign financiers to pay WFF, and/or to award tax credits, to three-car over-breeders with incomes well over $100,000 is total economic nonsense, the culpability for this madness being equally and shamelessly shared between National and Labour.
Read Len Bayliss's "Prosperity Mislaid" (1994) to appreciate the dismal truth of what the people of this country have made of themselves - not that New Zealand is in any way unique in this.
Interesting but deserves its own topic, it is off topic in this thread.
It is relevant in that we have during those 30 years of 'neo-liberal"
doctrine lost the willingness to recognise the deterioration in the
standard of housing available to lower income New Zealanders, and we
have at the same time run down our capacity to fix many of those
No that is not relevant, Ms Clark was not to blame on her own.
Indeed I believe it is widely recognised that while the Clarke
governments did stop many of the worst aspects of neo-liberalism,
there was not sufficient change to prevent some issues continuing -
the decline in the quality of housing for lower income New Zealanders
being one of them - and then the disaster of the Key/English years
exacerbated that trend. Directly relevant to the complaint about an
historically high need for both upgrading to existing buildings and
new building for immigrants and children of New Zealanders - and
illustrating why this applies equally to both private and public
landlords, despite the emphasis on the government in the article.
Post by Euripides
Post by Rich80105
problems.
Those now bleating that everything should have happened yesterday
ignore the reality that we are using our building and associated
trades workers as hard as we can; and whie we can be thankful that the
government moved shortly after the 2017 election to get many people
into training for those roles, they will not be fully trained for some
time - and that to import labour would only exacerbate the problems
that those same people applauded when they were receiving lower tax
rates and pay for workers was not even matching inflation . . .
Still off topic.
I disagree - but you are entitled to your unsupported opinion.
Tony
2021-07-09 06:55:24 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
Post by Euripides
Post by Rich80105
Post by Euripides
Post by James Christophers
Post by JohnO
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300351338/auckland-pensioners-in-the-cold-as-kinga-ora-halts-healthy-homes-heating-work
But the government, despite all its resources, gets a free pass.
All? Any government's resources must inevitably become increasingly
meagre when for decades per-capita productivity remains stagnant while demands
both on the national exchequer and
from
Post by James Christophers
the parasitic 100% zero-productivity rentier class continue to increase
unencumbered.
New Zealand can't afford itself. Fact is, it never has been able to over
the past 40 - 50 years - e.g., borrowing from foreign financiers to pay WFF,
and/or to award tax credits, to three-car over-breeders with incomes well over
$100,000 is total economic nonsense, the culpability for this madness being
equally and shamelessly shared between National and Labour.
Read Len Bayliss's "Prosperity Mislaid" (1994) to appreciate the dismal
truth of what the people of this country have made of themselves - not that New
Zealand is in any way unique in this.
Interesting but deserves its own topic, it is off topic in this thread.
It is relevant in that we have during those 30 years of 'neo-liberal"
doctrine lost the willingness to recognise the deterioration in the
standard of housing available to lower income New Zealanders, and we
have at the same time run down our capacity to fix many of those
No that is not relevant, Ms Clark was not to blame on her own.
Indeed I believe it is widely recognised that while the Clarke
governments did stop many of the worst aspects of neo-liberalism,
there was not sufficient change to prevent some issues continuing -
the decline in the quality of housing for lower income New Zealanders
being one of them - and then the disaster of the Key/English years
exacerbated that trend. Directly relevant to the complaint about an
historically high need for both upgrading to existing buildings and
new building for immigrants and children of New Zealanders - and
illustrating why this applies equally to both private and public
landlords, despite the emphasis on the government in the article.
Your fixation with Helen Clark (please note the correct spelling of her name)
hides you inability to see clearly.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Euripides
Post by Rich80105
problems.
Those now bleating that everything should have happened yesterday
ignore the reality that we are using our building and associated
trades workers as hard as we can; and whie we can be thankful that the
government moved shortly after the 2017 election to get many people
into training for those roles, they will not be fully trained for some
time - and that to import labour would only exacerbate the problems
that those same people applauded when they were receiving lower tax
rates and pay for workers was not even matching inflation . . .
Still off topic.
I disagree - but you are entitled to your unsupported opinion.
As you are yours, in this thread. Not one iota of supporting evidence in your
words.
John Bowes
2021-07-09 07:59:19 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Euripides
Post by Rich80105
Post by Euripides
Post by James Christophers
Post by JohnO
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300351338/auckland-pensioners-in-the-cold-as-kinga-ora-halts-healthy-homes-heating-work
But the government, despite all its resources, gets a free pass.
All? Any government's resources must inevitably become increasingly
meagre when for decades per-capita productivity remains stagnant while demands
both on the national exchequer and
from
Post by James Christophers
the parasitic 100% zero-productivity rentier class continue to increase
unencumbered.
New Zealand can't afford itself. Fact is, it never has been able to over
the past 40 - 50 years - e.g., borrowing from foreign financiers to pay WFF,
and/or to award tax credits, to three-car over-breeders with incomes well over
$100,000 is total economic nonsense, the culpability for this madness being
equally and shamelessly shared between National and Labour.
Read Len Bayliss's "Prosperity Mislaid" (1994) to appreciate the dismal
truth of what the people of this country have made of themselves - not that New
Zealand is in any way unique in this.
Interesting but deserves its own topic, it is off topic in this thread.
It is relevant in that we have during those 30 years of 'neo-liberal"
doctrine lost the willingness to recognise the deterioration in the
standard of housing available to lower income New Zealanders, and we
have at the same time run down our capacity to fix many of those
No that is not relevant, Ms Clark was not to blame on her own.
Indeed I believe it is widely recognised that while the Clarke
governments did stop many of the worst aspects of neo-liberalism,
there was not sufficient change to prevent some issues continuing -
the decline in the quality of housing for lower income New Zealanders
being one of them - and then the disaster of the Key/English years
exacerbated that trend. Directly relevant to the complaint about an
historically high need for both upgrading to existing buildings and
new building for immigrants and children of New Zealanders - and
illustrating why this applies equally to both private and public
landlords, despite the emphasis on the government in the article.
Your fixation with Helen Clark (please note the correct spelling of her name)
hides you inability to see clearly.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Euripides
Post by Rich80105
problems.
Those now bleating that everything should have happened yesterday
ignore the reality that we are using our building and associated
trades workers as hard as we can; and whie we can be thankful that the
government moved shortly after the 2017 election to get many people
into training for those roles, they will not be fully trained for some
time - and that to import labour would only exacerbate the problems
that those same people applauded when they were receiving lower tax
rates and pay for workers was not even matching inflation . . .
Still off topic.
I disagree - but you are entitled to your unsupported opinion.
As you are yours, in this thread. Not one iota of supporting evidence in your
words.
Is there ever?
Euripides
2021-07-10 01:52:12 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
Post by Euripides
Post by Rich80105
Post by Euripides
Post by James Christophers
Post by JohnO
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300351338/auckland-pensioners-in-the-cold-as-kinga-ora-halts-healthy-homes-heating-work
But the government, despite all its resources, gets a free pass.
All? Any government's resources must inevitably become increasingly meagre when for decades per-capita productivity remains stagnant while demands both on the national exchequer and
from
Post by James Christophers
the parasitic 100% zero-productivity rentier class continue to increase unencumbered.
New Zealand can't afford itself. Fact is, it never has been able to over the past 40 - 50 years - e.g., borrowing from foreign financiers to pay WFF, and/or to award tax credits, to three-car over-breeders with incomes well over $100,000 is total economic nonsense, the culpability for this madness being equally and shamelessly shared between National and Labour.
Read Len Bayliss's "Prosperity Mislaid" (1994) to appreciate the dismal truth of what the people of this country have made of themselves - not that New Zealand is in any way unique in this.
Interesting but deserves its own topic, it is off topic in this thread.
It is relevant in that we have during those 30 years of 'neo-liberal"
doctrine lost the willingness to recognise the deterioration in the
standard of housing available to lower income New Zealanders, and we
have at the same time run down our capacity to fix many of those
No that is not relevant, Ms Clark was not to blame on her own.
Indeed I believe it is widely recognised that while the Clarke
governments did stop many of the worst aspects of neo-liberalism,
there was not sufficient change to prevent some issues continuing -
the decline in the quality of housing for lower income New Zealanders
being one of them - and then the disaster of the Key/English years
exacerbated that trend. Directly relevant to the complaint about an
historically high need for both upgrading to existing buildings and
new building for immigrants and children of New Zealanders - and
illustrating why this applies equally to both private and public
landlords, despite the emphasis on the government in the article.
Your summary could go down as the worst logic ever delivered in this
dying newsgroup. In fact it probably will. Your hubris in believing that
you occasionally make sense is profound. On this occasion however no banana.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Euripides
Post by Rich80105
problems.
Those now bleating that everything should have happened yesterday
ignore the reality that we are using our building and associated
trades workers as hard as we can; and whie we can be thankful that the
government moved shortly after the 2017 election to get many people
into training for those roles, they will not be fully trained for some
time - and that to import labour would only exacerbate the problems
that those same people applauded when they were receiving lower tax
rates and pay for workers was not even matching inflation . . .
Still off topic.
I disagree - but you are entitled to your unsupported opinion.
John Bowes
2021-07-09 07:57:45 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Euripides
Post by James Christophers
Post by JohnO
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300351338/auckland-pensioners-in-the-cold-as-kinga-ora-halts-healthy-homes-heating-work
But the government, despite all its resources, gets a free pass.
All? Any government's resources must inevitably become increasingly meagre when for decades per-capita productivity remains stagnant while demands both on the national exchequer and
from
Post by James Christophers
the parasitic 100% zero-productivity rentier class continue to increase unencumbered.
New Zealand can't afford itself. Fact is, it never has been able to over the past 40 - 50 years - e.g., borrowing from foreign financiers to pay WFF, and/or to award tax credits, to three-car over-breeders with incomes well over $100,000 is total economic nonsense, the culpability for this madness being equally and shamelessly shared between National and Labour.
Read Len Bayliss's "Prosperity Mislaid" (1994) to appreciate the dismal truth of what the people of this country have made of themselves - not that New Zealand is in any way unique in this.
Interesting but deserves its own topic, it is off topic in this thread.
<typical crap trying to justify an utterly useless government snipped>
James Christophers
2021-07-11 06:01:18 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
Post by Euripides
Post by James Christophers
Post by JohnO
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300351338/auckland-pensioners-in-the-cold-as-kinga-ora-halts-healthy-homes-heating-work
But the government, despite all its resources, gets a free pass.
All? Any government's resources must inevitably become increasingly meagre when for decades per-capita productivity remains stagnant while demands both on the national exchequer and
from
Post by James Christophers
the parasitic 100% zero-productivity rentier class continue to increase unencumbered.
New Zealand can't afford itself. Fact is, it never has been able to over the past 40 - 50 years - e.g., borrowing from foreign financiers to pay WFF, and/or to award tax credits, to three-car over-breeders with incomes well over $100,000 is total economic nonsense, the culpability for this madness being equally and shamelessly shared between National and Labour.
Read Len Bayliss's "Prosperity Mislaid" (1994) to appreciate the dismal truth of what the people of this country have made of themselves - not that New Zealand is in any way unique in this.
Interesting but deserves its own topic, it is off topic in this thread.
It is relevant in that we have during those 30 years of 'neo-liberal"
doctrine lost the willingness to recognise the deterioration in the
standard of housing available to lower income New Zealanders, and we
have at the same time run down our capacity to fix many of those
problems.
Essentially, historically correct, therefore both valid and relevant since it also adds both substance and value to the topic.
Post by Rich80105
Those now bleating that everything should have happened yesterday
ignore the reality that we are using our building and associated
trades workers as hard as we can;
Correct. The preceding para is evidence-based and is therefore valid comment, can anyone explain why?
Post by Rich80105
and while we can be thankful...
?...
Post by Rich80105
that the
government moved shortly after the 2017 election to get many people
into training for those roles, they will not be fully trained for some
time.
Correct, and if this is not also an evidence-based explanation and therefore valid comment, can anyone explain why?

etc...

JohnO
2021-07-09 21:49:17 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by James Christophers
Post by JohnO
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300351338/auckland-pensioners-in-the-cold-as-kinga-ora-halts-healthy-homes-heating-work
But the government, despite all its resources, gets a free pass.
All? Any government's resources must inevitably become increasingly meagre when for decades per-capita productivity remains stagnant while demands both on the national exchequer and the parasitic 100% zero-productivity rentier class continue to increase unencumbered.
So meagre they can allocate nearly a billion for a stupid cycle bridge.
Post by James Christophers
New Zealand can't afford itself. Fact is, it never has been able to over the past 40 - 50 years - e.g., borrowing from foreign financiers to pay WFF, and/or to award tax credits, to three-car over-breeders with incomes well over $100,000 is total economic nonsense, the culpability for this madness being equally and shamelessly shared between National and Labour.
Perhaps it can't. If so it needs to look carefully at, and prioritise its spending.
Post by James Christophers
Read Len Bayliss's "Prosperity Mislaid" (1994) to appreciate the dismal truth of what the people of this country have made of themselves - not that New Zealand is in any way unique in this.
James Christophers
2021-07-11 04:10:07 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by James Christophers
Post by JohnO
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300351338/auckland-pensioners-in-the-cold-as-kinga-ora-halts-healthy-homes-heating-work
But the government, despite all its resources, gets a free pass.
All? Any government's resources must inevitably become increasingly meagre when for decades per-capita productivity remains stagnant while demands both on the national exchequer and the parasitic 100% zero-productivity rentier class continue to increase unencumbered.
New Zealand can't afford itself. Fact is, it never has been able to over the past 40 - 50 years - e.g., borrowing from foreign financiers to pay WFF, and/or to award tax credits, to three-car over-breeders with incomes well over $100,000 is total economic nonsense, the culpability for this madness being equally and shamelessly shared between National and Labour.
Read Len Bayliss's "Prosperity Mislaid" (1994) to appreciate the dismal truth of what the people of this country have made of themselves - not that New Zealand is in any way unique in this.
Further, as if to endorse the foregoing:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/11/pressures-have-built-up-how-can-new-zealand-solve-its-social-housing-crisis

...from which we learn:

Community Housing Aotearoa's acting chief executive Chris Glaudel commends the government for its widespread long-term investment into housing, especially towards Māori housing, but says New Zealand is in for the long-haul.

The housing crisis didn’t happen overnight, he says. In the past investment was made into council, pensioner and social housing, but “that tap was turned off” in the late 1980s and 90s.

“We continued living on the prior investments for decades but the pressures have built up and we have depreciated those prior investments wholly now.”
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