Discussion:
Attention Chris Bishop (as National COVID19 spokesperson)
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Crash
2021-09-18 00:04:53 UTC
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This is a thought-provoking publication from the new Israeli Prime
Minister. It is political (given who the author is) but lays out an
attitude to COVID19 that is possible with a country that has a high
percentage of the population inoculated with a COVID19 vaccine. There
are plenty of good ideas for National to take up on. I say National
because the core tenet of the Israeli plan is that lockdowns are
unaffordable and could bankrupt the country with repeated use. That
is a notion most likely to find favour with National rather than
Labour. If National can get ideas from this, they may well translate
into popular policy options in the near future and a means of forging
a credible but different path forward going into 2022.

https://www.gov.il/en/departments/news/spoke_post140821


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Crash McBash
Gordon
2021-09-18 04:18:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Crash
This is a thought-provoking publication from the new Israeli Prime
Minister. It is political (given who the author is) but lays out an
attitude to COVID19 that is possible with a country that has a high
percentage of the population inoculated with a COVID19 vaccine. There
are plenty of good ideas for National to take up on. I say National
because the core tenet of the Israeli plan is that lockdowns are
unaffordable and could bankrupt the country with repeated use. That
is a notion most likely to find favour with National rather than
Labour. If National can get ideas from this, they may well translate
into popular policy options in the near future and a means of forging
a credible but different path forward going into 2022.
https://www.gov.il/en/departments/news/spoke_post140821
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Crash McBash
While at the end of the pandemic there is nothing in here that is new, it is
a State of the Nation address. It is the PM of a country laying things out
in a clear way. What the situation is and why we need to learn to live with
the virus. The virus is here and we need to adapt. We need to do what we
can, 3 jabs of vaccine and then fight the virus without lockdowns.

While it is short on dates, and comes out of Facebook, it is nevertheless a
PM giving the country direction, hope and encouragement. (the URL is gov.il)

This stands out it stark contrast to our Governments handling of the
pandemic.

There has to be a balance between a collasped economy and maxiumin number of
deaths.

Where that is should be decided after a good public debate. It really is not
a political matter as it is big, new and we are all in it together.
Rich80105
2021-09-18 04:55:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gordon
Post by Crash
This is a thought-provoking publication from the new Israeli Prime
Minister. It is political (given who the author is) but lays out an
attitude to COVID19 that is possible with a country that has a high
percentage of the population inoculated with a COVID19 vaccine. There
are plenty of good ideas for National to take up on. I say National
because the core tenet of the Israeli plan is that lockdowns are
unaffordable and could bankrupt the country with repeated use. That
is a notion most likely to find favour with National rather than
Labour. If National can get ideas from this, they may well translate
into popular policy options in the near future and a means of forging
a credible but different path forward going into 2022.
https://www.gov.il/en/departments/news/spoke_post140821
--
Crash McBash
While at the end of the pandemic there is nothing in here that is new, it is
a State of the Nation address. It is the PM of a country laying things out
in a clear way. What the situation is and why we need to learn to live with
the virus. The virus is here and we need to adapt. We need to do what we
can, 3 jabs of vaccine and then fight the virus without lockdowns.
While it is short on dates, and comes out of Facebook, it is nevertheless a
PM giving the country direction, hope and encouragement. (the URL is gov.il)
This stands out it stark contrast to our Governments handling of the
pandemic.
It certainly does, our 5.49 deaths per million population compared
with 824.00 per million for Israel.
Post by Gordon
There has to be a balance between a collasped economy and maxiumin number of
deaths.
See
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_impact_of_the_COVID-19_pandemic#Israel
and
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_impact_of_the_COVID-19_pandemic_in_New_Zealand

My impression from these is that New Zealand has done better than
Israel, but I don't think either country is close to having a
collapsed economy
Post by Gordon
Where that is should be decided after a good public debate. It really is not
a political matter as it is big, new and we are all in it together.
I suspect that in every country decisions made result from a mix of
medical / scientific advice and political considerations. In New
Zealand there appears to be general agreement that the elimination
strategy has been worth it - and that taking a stronger line on
lockdowns than some other countries has been justified - with the
comparison of New South Wales results being oneoften cited example. I
understand the the Leader of the Opposition, Hon Judith Collins,
recently confirmed the support of her party to elimination; but no
party has set out how they see New Zealand emerging to free passage of
New Zealanders and trevellers from other countries; I expectt he
differences will continue to be very small.

Rich80105
2021-09-18 04:34:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Crash
This is a thought-provoking publication from the new Israeli Prime
Minister. It is political (given who the author is) but lays out an
attitude to COVID19 that is possible with a country that has a high
percentage of the population inoculated with a COVID19 vaccine.
It is also a country that no longer has the option of lockdown. See
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/covid-19-coronavirus-israel-fighting-record-breaking-surge-in-cases/WL7HDBCG2AHMURZSI7DLRUDILA/

For comparison, New Zealand has 5.49 deaths per million population;
Australia 44.98, and Israel 824.00

Their vaccination rate is not particularly high, but they were earlier
than most other countries to get over 50%.

Lessons from the experience of Israel are that the vaccination may
reduce in effectiveness with time, (many have had 3 injections); that
the vaccine does not give immunity, and that vaccinated people can be
carrier and pass the infection to others.
Post by Crash
There
are plenty of good ideas for National to take up on. I say National
because the core tenet of the Israeli plan is that lockdowns are
unaffordable and could bankrupt the country with repeated use.
An easy claim - do you have any evidence that the cost of lockdown
(provided it were successful) would be more than the continuing number
of cases and deaths they have had and are still having?
Post by Crash
That
is a notion most likely to find favour with National rather than
Labour. If National can get ideas from this, they may well translate
into popular policy options in the near future and a means of forging
a credible but different path forward going into 2022.
The example of Israel was being used by business people and others in
New Zealand to demonstrate that opening up was possible without a high
number of cases - and there was talk of 60% to 70% being necessary for
herd immunity. That all changed when the number of cases and deaths
increased rapidly, shooing that medical assuptions by business people
may not be as accurate as assessments by medical specialists.
Post by Crash
https://www.gov.il/en/departments/news/spoke_post140821
I don't know where I saw it but the hit to GDP for New Zealand has
been lower than for most countries - we have had less time n lockdown
than many; our hospitals have not been overrun, and our debt to GDP
ration is better than most countries.

It is good to compare results from other political decisions though
Crash - the problem with Covid is that the situation has changed with
new variants, and often the results of policy changes is only seen
with hindsight. It is important that alernatives are given - an area
where business may be able to help is by identifying solutions to
supply chain problems affecting the building industry - it is
important, and does not have the complications of the Covid virus and
the Delta variant where even specialists are still learning . . .
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