Discussion:
After vaccination - long term what?
(too old to reply)
Gordon
2021-09-18 08:52:13 UTC
Permalink
https://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff-nation/126415739/i-believed-in-the-jacinda-effect-now-covid19-has-made-me-critical

It seems that some others are also wondering what the Covid road map is. The
lack of vision as to where we are going is very frustrating.

A good plan to-day is better than a perfect one tomorrow. As the saying
goes.
John Bowes
2021-09-18 10:37:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gordon
https://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff-nation/126415739/i-believed-in-the-jacinda-effect-now-covid19-has-made-me-critical
It seems that some others are also wondering what the Covid road map is. The
lack of vision as to where we are going is very frustrating.
A good plan to-day is better than a perfect one tomorrow. As the saying
goes.
All we can look forward to is Covid being like influenza and requiring a booster every year or even six months. The problem is almost everything they've told us about covid is speculation and that came from a medical professional as well as several microbiologists.
Rich80105
2021-09-18 10:43:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gordon
https://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff-nation/126415739/i-believed-in-the-jacinda-effect-now-covid19-has-made-me-critical
It seems that some others are also wondering what the Covid road map is. The
lack of vision as to where we are going is very frustrating.
A good plan to-day is better than a perfect one tomorrow. As the saying
goes.
I like that saying. Here is another:
"One cannot be sure that any operational plan will survive the first
encounter with the main body of the enemy"

The plan with levels 1, 2, 3 and 4 worked quite well when they were
first developed - as time went onwe added various things like contact
tracing and isolation and testing. We started vaccinations, and were
able to come back down to level 1. Then we got Delta - the Enemy
modified itself, but we did not abandon the previous plan, we adapted
it.

So we have a Covid Road map for this stage - and we are getting used
to it - we understand bubbles; we understand why isolation is
desirable, we understand that it has changed from being presumed to
infect thrugh touch to infgecting through aerosols, and we have
changed level 2 a bit and introduced masks. Sounds like a fairly
stable plan . . .

The hard part is knowing when to stop doing parts of the process -
with unhindered international travel being an aim for some; not going
to levels 3 or 4 the aim for others. Some countries never went to our
level 4; others moved out more quickly than we did - and a very small
number (China being the most prominent) impose harder restrictions
than us.

So I would say we have a good plan, but we know we don't know
everything, and we know it will not be perfect, especially if the
virus changes again . . . Does that help?
Tony
2021-09-18 21:11:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
Post by Gordon
https://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff-nation/126415739/i-believed-in-the-jacinda-effect-now-covid19-has-made-me-critical
It seems that some others are also wondering what the Covid road map is. The
lack of vision as to where we are going is very frustrating.
A good plan to-day is better than a perfect one tomorrow. As the saying
goes.
"One cannot be sure that any operational plan will survive the first
encounter with the main body of the enemy"
The plan with levels 1, 2, 3 and 4 worked quite well when they were
first developed - as time went onwe added various things like contact
tracing and isolation and testing. We started vaccinations, and were
able to come back down to level 1. Then we got Delta - the Enemy
modified itself, but we did not abandon the previous plan, we adapted
it.
So we have a Covid Road map for this stage - and we are getting used
to it - we understand bubbles; we understand why isolation is
desirable, we understand that it has changed from being presumed to
infect thrugh touch to infgecting through aerosols, and we have
changed level 2 a bit and introduced masks. Sounds like a fairly
stable plan . . .
The hard part is knowing when to stop doing parts of the process -
with unhindered international travel being an aim for some; not going
to levels 3 or 4 the aim for others. Some countries never went to our
level 4; others moved out more quickly than we did - and a very small
number (China being the most prominent) impose harder restrictions
than us.
So I would say we have a good plan, but we know we don't know
everything, and we know it will not be perfect, especially if the
virus changes again . . . Does that help?
We do not have a plan for a future further out than next month.
That is one of the things the article is suggesting. The other most important
one is the huge mistake (never admitted) to delay the purchase of vaccines -
incompetent then and moreso now.
It is a very brave article in some ways and shows the way for the PM to admit
things are now in a bad way and she has no idea where we can be in a year's
time or how to get there.
Saying it is hard is not good enough. That is what we pay her for.
John Bowes
2021-09-18 21:20:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Gordon
https://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff-nation/126415739/i-believed-in-the-jacinda-effect-now-covid19-has-made-me-critical
It seems that some others are also wondering what the Covid road map is. The
lack of vision as to where we are going is very frustrating.
A good plan to-day is better than a perfect one tomorrow. As the saying
goes.
"One cannot be sure that any operational plan will survive the first
encounter with the main body of the enemy"
The plan with levels 1, 2, 3 and 4 worked quite well when they were
first developed - as time went onwe added various things like contact
tracing and isolation and testing. We started vaccinations, and were
able to come back down to level 1. Then we got Delta - the Enemy
modified itself, but we did not abandon the previous plan, we adapted
it.
So we have a Covid Road map for this stage - and we are getting used
to it - we understand bubbles; we understand why isolation is
desirable, we understand that it has changed from being presumed to
infect thrugh touch to infgecting through aerosols, and we have
changed level 2 a bit and introduced masks. Sounds like a fairly
stable plan . . .
The hard part is knowing when to stop doing parts of the process -
with unhindered international travel being an aim for some; not going
to levels 3 or 4 the aim for others. Some countries never went to our
level 4; others moved out more quickly than we did - and a very small
number (China being the most prominent) impose harder restrictions
than us.
So I would say we have a good plan, but we know we don't know
everything, and we know it will not be perfect, especially if the
virus changes again . . . Does that help?
We do not have a plan for a future further out than next month.
That is one of the things the article is suggesting. The other most important
one is the huge mistake (never admitted) to delay the purchase of vaccines -
incompetent then and more so now.
It is a very brave article in some ways and shows the way for the PM to admit
things are now in a bad way and she has no idea where we can be in a year's
time or how to get there.
Saying it is hard is not good enough. That is what we pay her for.
The biggest problem with the government is they NEVER plan or set targets! In fact many targets that were in place have been canned. Until they learn that targets are necessary they'll fail at everything they try. Time for less talk and more action from the useless buggers!
Rich80105
2021-09-19 01:33:51 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 18 Sep 2021 16:11:28 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Gordon
https://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff-nation/126415739/i-believed-in-the-jacinda-effect-now-covid19-has-made-me-critical
It seems that some others are also wondering what the Covid road map is. The
lack of vision as to where we are going is very frustrating.
A good plan to-day is better than a perfect one tomorrow. As the saying
goes.
"One cannot be sure that any operational plan will survive the first
encounter with the main body of the enemy"
The plan with levels 1, 2, 3 and 4 worked quite well when they were
first developed - as time went onwe added various things like contact
tracing and isolation and testing. We started vaccinations, and were
able to come back down to level 1. Then we got Delta - the Enemy
modified itself, but we did not abandon the previous plan, we adapted
it.
So we have a Covid Road map for this stage - and we are getting used
to it - we understand bubbles; we understand why isolation is
desirable, we understand that it has changed from being presumed to
infect thrugh touch to infgecting through aerosols, and we have
changed level 2 a bit and introduced masks. Sounds like a fairly
stable plan . . .
The hard part is knowing when to stop doing parts of the process -
with unhindered international travel being an aim for some; not going
to levels 3 or 4 the aim for others. Some countries never went to our
level 4; others moved out more quickly than we did - and a very small
number (China being the most prominent) impose harder restrictions
than us.
So I would say we have a good plan, but we know we don't know
everything, and we know it will not be perfect, especially if the
virus changes again . . . Does that help?
We do not have a plan for a future further out than next month.
Of course we do - have not been reading and listening?
Post by Tony
That is one of the things the article is suggesting.
The author is clearly nearly as confused as you are.
Post by Tony
The other most important
one is the huge mistake (never admitted) to delay the purchase of vaccines -
incompetent then and moreso now.
Even if true (and it isn't), if something was icompetent more than a
year ago, why is it moreso now? We have very good supplied - enough to
give a third injection to most New Zealanders. What is the problem
now?
Post by Tony
It is a very brave article in some ways and shows the way for the PM to admit
things are now in a bad way and she has no idea where we can be in a year's
time or how to get there.
Why on earth would you want our prime minister to lie to New
Zealanders in that way?
Post by Tony
Saying it is hard is not good enough. That is what we pay her for.
Everyone is saying that dealing with Covid is hard - we pay our Prime
Minister to tell us the truth - which she does.

I find it amazing that with global warming, we have a lot of people
saying that there is no problem, then when it is shown that there is
that we cannot make a difference, then when it is shown we can say we
should wait for science to fix it - anything to avoid dealing with the
need for change change. Yet now faced with a second and different
version of the original covid, we still get paople saying we should
just let people die; we should do what New South Wales have done, etc
etc - anything but follow the science.

At present we know that the vaccine does not give full immunisation,
that it does not prevent a person that has been vaccinated getting
Covid or showing no symptoms but infecting others. When Israel reached
70% Vaccination they thought they had done enough - and opened
themselves up to a resurgance that killed many and gave sever illness
to many more and causing large economic harm. New South Wales were
never really keen on lockdowns - that was the message from their
politicians who exxpemted all sorts of things - until eventually they
had to virtually admit that they had lost control and that they had
given up - the Premier even giving up talking to residents trough
embarrassment, shame, or the wishful thinking that if she hides she
may not get the blame . . .

So our government has recently been talking about a target of 100% for
vaccinations, but also of considering moving to allow home isolation
for some returning New Zealanders so that more can return. Meanwhile
our government is funding research in New Zealand in relation to
vaccines and domestic production of vaccines - there is speculation
that we may need annual vaccinations similar to the infuenza vaccine.
So active research and planning is happening all the time, and for
those prepared to listen there is a wealth of material.

These are also complex issues, with more than just health and business
profits to concern us - see for example :
https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL2109/S00040/on-the-moral-and-scientific-case-against-covid-booster-shots.htm

Just bitching and moaning will not get us anywhere, Tony
Tony
2021-09-19 01:51:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 18 Sep 2021 16:11:28 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Gordon
https://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff-nation/126415739/i-believed-in-the-jacinda-effect-now-covid19-has-made-me-critical
It seems that some others are also wondering what the Covid road map is. The
lack of vision as to where we are going is very frustrating.
A good plan to-day is better than a perfect one tomorrow. As the saying
goes.
"One cannot be sure that any operational plan will survive the first
encounter with the main body of the enemy"
The plan with levels 1, 2, 3 and 4 worked quite well when they were
first developed - as time went onwe added various things like contact
tracing and isolation and testing. We started vaccinations, and were
able to come back down to level 1. Then we got Delta - the Enemy
modified itself, but we did not abandon the previous plan, we adapted
it.
So we have a Covid Road map for this stage - and we are getting used
to it - we understand bubbles; we understand why isolation is
desirable, we understand that it has changed from being presumed to
infect thrugh touch to infgecting through aerosols, and we have
changed level 2 a bit and introduced masks. Sounds like a fairly
stable plan . . .
The hard part is knowing when to stop doing parts of the process -
with unhindered international travel being an aim for some; not going
to levels 3 or 4 the aim for others. Some countries never went to our
level 4; others moved out more quickly than we did - and a very small
number (China being the most prominent) impose harder restrictions
than us.
So I would say we have a good plan, but we know we don't know
everything, and we know it will not be perfect, especially if the
virus changes again . . . Does that help?
We do not have a plan for a future further out than next month.
Of course we do - have not been reading and listening?
We have aspirations not a plan. I have been reading and listening and you my
little feathered friend can just sod off with your rudeness and abuse.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
That is one of the things the article is suggesting.
The author is clearly nearly as confused as you are.
More abuse - go back to your swamp and have a rest.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
The other most important
one is the huge mistake (never admitted) to delay the purchase of vaccines -
incompetent then and moreso now.
Even if true (and it isn't), if something was icompetent more than a
year ago, why is it moreso now? We have very good supplied - enough to
give a third injection to most New Zealanders. What is the problem
now?
Post by Tony
It is a very brave article in some ways and shows the way for the PM to admit
things are now in a bad way and she has no idea where we can be in a year's
time or how to get there.
Why on earth would you want our prime minister to lie to New
Zealanders in that way?
I want her to stop lying you cretinous little weed.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Saying it is hard is not good enough. That is what we pay her for.
Everyone is saying that dealing with Covid is hard - we pay our Prime
Minister to tell us the truth - which she does.
I find it amazing that with global warming, we have a lot of people
saying that there is no problem, then when it is shown that there is
that we cannot make a difference, then when it is shown we can say we
should wait for science to fix it - anything to avoid dealing with the
need for change change. Yet now faced with a second and different
version of the original covid, we still get paople saying we should
just let people die; we should do what New South Wales have done, etc
etc - anything but follow the science.
Completely off topic, why change the subject - other than to distract as usual.
Post by Rich80105
At present we know that the vaccine does not give full immunisation,
that it does not prevent a person that has been vaccinated getting
Covid or showing no symptoms but infecting others. When Israel reached
70% Vaccination they thought they had done enough - and opened
themselves up to a resurgance that killed many and gave sever illness
to many more and causing large economic harm. New South Wales were
never really keen on lockdowns - that was the message from their
politicians who exxpemted all sorts of things - until eventually they
had to virtually admit that they had lost control and that they had
given up - the Premier even giving up talking to residents trough
embarrassment, shame, or the wishful thinking that if she hides she
may not get the blame . . .
Nothing to do with the subject which is about our plans for the future -
because they do not exist - only aspirations.
Post by Rich80105
So our government has recently been talking about a target of 100% for
vaccinations, but also of considering moving to allow home isolation
for some returning New Zealanders so that more can return. Meanwhile
our government is funding research in New Zealand in relation to
vaccines and domestic production of vaccines - there is speculation
that we may need annual vaccinations similar to the infuenza vaccine.
So active research and planning is happening all the time, and for
those prepared to listen there is a wealth of material.
Those are not plans and you know it.
Post by Rich80105
These are also complex issues, with more than just health and business
https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL2109/S00040/on-the-moral-and-scientific-case-against-covid-booster-shots.htm
Just bitching and moaning will not get us anywhere, Tony
Then stop doing so. Nobody else is bitching and moaning. Only you bitching
about other people who care more about this country than you.
You are an imbecile.
Euripides
2021-09-19 03:53:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 18 Sep 2021 16:11:28 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Gordon
https://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff-nation/126415739/i-believed-in-the-jacinda-effect-now-covid19-has-made-me-critical
It seems that some others are also wondering what the Covid road map is. The
lack of vision as to where we are going is very frustrating.
A good plan to-day is better than a perfect one tomorrow. As the saying
goes.
"One cannot be sure that any operational plan will survive the first
encounter with the main body of the enemy"
The plan with levels 1, 2, 3 and 4 worked quite well when they were
first developed - as time went onwe added various things like contact
tracing and isolation and testing. We started vaccinations, and were
able to come back down to level 1. Then we got Delta - the Enemy
modified itself, but we did not abandon the previous plan, we adapted
it.
So we have a Covid Road map for this stage - and we are getting used
to it - we understand bubbles; we understand why isolation is
desirable, we understand that it has changed from being presumed to
infect thrugh touch to infgecting through aerosols, and we have
changed level 2 a bit and introduced masks. Sounds like a fairly
stable plan . . .
The hard part is knowing when to stop doing parts of the process -
with unhindered international travel being an aim for some; not going
to levels 3 or 4 the aim for others. Some countries never went to our
level 4; others moved out more quickly than we did - and a very small
number (China being the most prominent) impose harder restrictions
than us.
So I would say we have a good plan, but we know we don't know
everything, and we know it will not be perfect, especially if the
virus changes again . . . Does that help?
We do not have a plan for a future further out than next month.
Of course we do - have not been reading and listening?
Standard response from a troll.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
That is one of the things the article is suggesting.
The author is clearly nearly as confused as you are.
Yup once a troll always a troll - you my auld friend cannot avoid trolling.
Can't be bothered with the rest of Rich's nonsense.
He might think he is not a troll but deep down in his little black heart
he knows that he is.
Absolutely classic trolling behaviour.
No wonder these creatures are despised.
John Bowes
2021-09-19 06:00:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Euripides
Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 18 Sep 2021 16:11:28 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Gordon
https://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff-nation/126415739/i-believed-in-the-jacinda-effect-now-covid19-has-made-me-critical
It seems that some others are also wondering what the Covid road map is. The
lack of vision as to where we are going is very frustrating.
A good plan to-day is better than a perfect one tomorrow. As the saying
goes.
"One cannot be sure that any operational plan will survive the first
encounter with the main body of the enemy"
The plan with levels 1, 2, 3 and 4 worked quite well when they were
first developed - as time went onwe added various things like contact
tracing and isolation and testing. We started vaccinations, and were
able to come back down to level 1. Then we got Delta - the Enemy
modified itself, but we did not abandon the previous plan, we adapted
it.
So we have a Covid Road map for this stage - and we are getting used
to it - we understand bubbles; we understand why isolation is
desirable, we understand that it has changed from being presumed to
infect thrugh touch to infgecting through aerosols, and we have
changed level 2 a bit and introduced masks. Sounds like a fairly
stable plan . . .
The hard part is knowing when to stop doing parts of the process -
with unhindered international travel being an aim for some; not going
to levels 3 or 4 the aim for others. Some countries never went to our
level 4; others moved out more quickly than we did - and a very small
number (China being the most prominent) impose harder restrictions
than us.
So I would say we have a good plan, but we know we don't know
everything, and we know it will not be perfect, especially if the
virus changes again . . . Does that help?
We do not have a plan for a future further out than next month.
Of course we do - have not been reading and listening?
Standard response from a troll.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
That is one of the things the article is suggesting.
The author is clearly nearly as confused as you are.
Yup once a troll always a troll - you my auld friend cannot avoid trolling.
Can't be bothered with the rest of Rich's nonsense.
He might think he is not a troll but deep down in his little black heart
he knows that he is.
Absolutely classic trolling behaviour.
No wonder these creatures are despised.
Don't you mean 'little RED heart' ? ;)
Ainulindale_world_that_is
2021-09-19 21:08:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Euripides
Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 18 Sep 2021 16:11:28 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Gordon
https://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff-nation/126415739/i-believed-in-the-jacinda-effect-now-covid19-has-made-me-critical
It seems that some others are also wondering what the Covid road map is. The
lack of vision as to where we are going is very frustrating.
A good plan to-day is better than a perfect one tomorrow. As the saying
goes.
"One cannot be sure that any operational plan will survive the first
encounter with the main body of the enemy"
The plan with levels 1, 2, 3 and 4 worked quite well when they were
first developed - as time went onwe added various things like contact
tracing and isolation and testing. We started vaccinations, and were
able to come back down to level 1. Then we got Delta - the Enemy
modified itself, but we did not abandon the previous plan, we adapted
it.
So we have a Covid Road map for this stage - and we are getting used
to it - we understand bubbles; we understand why isolation is
desirable, we understand that it has changed from being presumed to
infect thrugh touch to infgecting through aerosols, and we have
changed level 2 a bit and introduced masks. Sounds like a fairly
stable plan . . .
The hard part is knowing when to stop doing parts of the process -
with unhindered international travel being an aim for some; not going
to levels 3 or 4 the aim for others. Some countries never went to our
level 4; others moved out more quickly than we did - and a very small
number (China being the most prominent) impose harder restrictions
than us.
So I would say we have a good plan, but we know we don't know
everything, and we know it will not be perfect, especially if the
virus changes again . . . Does that help?
We do not have a plan for a future further out than next month.
Of course we do - have not been reading and listening?
Standard response from a troll.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
That is one of the things the article is suggesting.
The author is clearly nearly as confused as you are.
Yup once a troll always a troll - you my auld friend cannot avoid trolling.
Can't be bothered with the rest of Rich's nonsense.
He might think he is not a troll but deep down in his little black heart
he knows that he is.
Absolutely classic trolling behaviour.
No wonder these creatures are despised.
Join the club, it is a very large one.
Over the years he has driven several people away. Many of them
reasoneable and well behaved but they did one really bad thing.
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
They had the impertinence to disagree with Rich the troll.
Even James feels revulsion towards him but hides it for obvious
reasons.
James Christophers
2021-09-19 23:09:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ainulindale_world_that_is
Post by Euripides
Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 18 Sep 2021 16:11:28 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Gordon
https://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff-nation/126415739/i-believed-in-the-jacinda-effect-now-covid19-has-made-me-critical
It seems that some others are also wondering what the Covid road map is. The
lack of vision as to where we are going is very frustrating.
A good plan to-day is better than a perfect one tomorrow. As the saying
goes.
"One cannot be sure that any operational plan will survive the first
encounter with the main body of the enemy"
The plan with levels 1, 2, 3 and 4 worked quite well when they were
first developed - as time went onwe added various things like contact
tracing and isolation and testing. We started vaccinations, and were
able to come back down to level 1. Then we got Delta - the Enemy
modified itself, but we did not abandon the previous plan, we adapted
it.
So we have a Covid Road map for this stage - and we are getting used
to it - we understand bubbles; we understand why isolation is
desirable, we understand that it has changed from being presumed to
infect thrugh touch to infgecting through aerosols, and we have
changed level 2 a bit and introduced masks. Sounds like a fairly
stable plan . . .
The hard part is knowing when to stop doing parts of the process -
with unhindered international travel being an aim for some; not going
to levels 3 or 4 the aim for others. Some countries never went to our
level 4; others moved out more quickly than we did - and a very small
number (China being the most prominent) impose harder restrictions
than us.
So I would say we have a good plan, but we know we don't know
everything, and we know it will not be perfect, especially if the
virus changes again . . . Does that help?
We do not have a plan for a future further out than next month.
Of course we do - have not been reading and listening?
Standard response from a troll.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
That is one of the things the article is suggesting.
The author is clearly nearly as confused as you are.
Yup once a troll always a troll - you my auld friend cannot avoid trolling.
Can't be bothered with the rest of Rich's nonsense.
He might think he is not a troll but deep down in his little black heart
he knows that he is.
Absolutely classic trolling behaviour.
No wonder these creatures are despised.
Join the club, it is a very large one.
Over the years he has driven several people away. Many of them
reasoneable and well behaved but they did one really bad thing.
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
They had the impertinence to disagree with Rich the troll.
Even James feels revulsion towards him but hides it for obvious
reasons.
Speaking for others is considered part and parcel of trolling.

That said, and in any case, it takes all sorts...yes, including you.

And why not?
Tony
2021-09-20 00:01:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by James Christophers
Post by Ainulindale_world_that_is
Post by Euripides
Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 18 Sep 2021 16:11:28 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Gordon
https://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff-nation/126415739/i-believed-in-the-jacinda-effect-now-covid19-has-made-me-critical
It seems that some others are also wondering what the Covid road map is. The
lack of vision as to where we are going is very frustrating.
A good plan to-day is better than a perfect one tomorrow. As the saying
goes.
"One cannot be sure that any operational plan will survive the first
encounter with the main body of the enemy"
The plan with levels 1, 2, 3 and 4 worked quite well when they were
first developed - as time went onwe added various things like contact
tracing and isolation and testing. We started vaccinations, and were
able to come back down to level 1. Then we got Delta - the Enemy
modified itself, but we did not abandon the previous plan, we adapted
it.
So we have a Covid Road map for this stage - and we are getting used
to it - we understand bubbles; we understand why isolation is
desirable, we understand that it has changed from being presumed to
infect thrugh touch to infgecting through aerosols, and we have
changed level 2 a bit and introduced masks. Sounds like a fairly
stable plan . . .
The hard part is knowing when to stop doing parts of the process -
with unhindered international travel being an aim for some; not going
to levels 3 or 4 the aim for others. Some countries never went to our
level 4; others moved out more quickly than we did - and a very small
number (China being the most prominent) impose harder restrictions
than us.
So I would say we have a good plan, but we know we don't know
everything, and we know it will not be perfect, especially if the
virus changes again . . . Does that help?
We do not have a plan for a future further out than next month.
Of course we do - have not been reading and listening?
Standard response from a troll.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
That is one of the things the article is suggesting.
The author is clearly nearly as confused as you are.
Yup once a troll always a troll - you my auld friend cannot avoid trolling.
Can't be bothered with the rest of Rich's nonsense.
He might think he is not a troll but deep down in his little black heart
he knows that he is.
Absolutely classic trolling behaviour.
No wonder these creatures are despised.
Join the club, it is a very large one.
Over the years he has driven several people away. Many of them
reasoneable and well behaved but they did one really bad thing.
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They had the impertinence to disagree with Rich the troll.
Even James feels revulsion towards him but hides it for obvious
reasons.
Speaking for others is considered part and parcel of trolling.
Nonsense, but I wish you were correct. It would convict you and Rich.
Post by James Christophers
That said, and in any case, it takes all sorts...yes, including you.
And why not?
John Bowes
2021-09-19 05:58:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 18 Sep 2021 16:11:28 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Gordon
https://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff-nation/126415739/i-believed-in-the-jacinda-effect-now-covid19-has-made-me-critical
It seems that some others are also wondering what the Covid road map is. The
lack of vision as to where we are going is very frustrating.
A good plan to-day is better than a perfect one tomorrow. As the saying
goes.
"One cannot be sure that any operational plan will survive the first
encounter with the main body of the enemy"
The plan with levels 1, 2, 3 and 4 worked quite well when they were
first developed - as time went onwe added various things like contact
tracing and isolation and testing. We started vaccinations, and were
able to come back down to level 1. Then we got Delta - the Enemy
modified itself, but we did not abandon the previous plan, we adapted
it.
So we have a Covid Road map for this stage - and we are getting used
to it - we understand bubbles; we understand why isolation is
desirable, we understand that it has changed from being presumed to
infect thrugh touch to infgecting through aerosols, and we have
changed level 2 a bit and introduced masks. Sounds like a fairly
stable plan . . .
The hard part is knowing when to stop doing parts of the process -
with unhindered international travel being an aim for some; not going
to levels 3 or 4 the aim for others. Some countries never went to our
level 4; others moved out more quickly than we did - and a very small
number (China being the most prominent) impose harder restrictions
than us.
So I would say we have a good plan, but we know we don't know
everything, and we know it will not be perfect, especially if the
virus changes again . . . Does that help?
We do not have a plan for a future further out than next month.
Of course we do - have not been reading and listening?
Rubbish if your glorious leader had one you'd give us a link. no link then you're just lying again!
I don't bother listening. I stopped listening to people talking down to me when I was about five!
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
That is one of the things the article is suggesting.
The author is clearly nearly as confused as you are.
As always the confusion is all yours Rich.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
The other most important
one is the huge mistake (never admitted) to delay the purchase of vaccines -
incompetent then and moreso now.
Even if true (and it isn't), if something was icompetent more than a
year ago, why is it moreso now? We have very good supplied - enough to
give a third injection to most New Zealanders. What is the problem
now?
Stop lying to defend your ever more useless government rich. They've been late and slow ever since the first lock down in 2020!
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
It is a very brave article in some ways and shows the way for the PM to admit
things are now in a bad way and she has no idea where we can be in a year's
time or how to get there.
Why on earth would you want our prime minister to lie to New
Zealanders in that way?
She'd only be lying if she didn't have a clue Rich! Besides she's been lying to New Zealand for the last thirteen years Rich so why would any sane person expect anything else?
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Saying it is hard is not good enough. That is what we pay her for.
Everyone is saying that dealing with Covid is hard - we pay our Prime
Minister to tell us the truth - which she does.
Only in your drug induced dreams Rich. She's done nothing but lie since she got into parliament and as PM has just been telling bigger lies. Like you Rich she's a compulsive liar!
Post by Rich80105
I find it amazing that with global warming, we have a lot of people
saying that there is no problem, then when it is shown that there is
that we cannot make a difference, then when it is shown we can say we
should wait for science to fix it - anything to avoid dealing with the
need for change change. Yet now faced with a second and different
version of the original covid, we still get paople saying we should
just let people die; we should do what New South Wales have done, etc
etc - anything but follow the science.
Global warming is something that's been happening for the last twenty thousand years Rich. comparing it to Covid is about par for the course from a fucking lying imbecile like you!
Post by Rich80105
At present we know that the vaccine does not give full immunisation,
It gives NO immunisation you clod! It just lessens the effects of the virus. You should read more about it but I guess with your lack of comprehension skills that'd be just another waste of time in your wasted and useless life...
Post by Rich80105
that it does not prevent a person that has been vaccinated getting
Covid or showing no symptoms but infecting others. When Israel reached
70% Vaccination they thought they had done enough - and opened
themselves up to a resurgance that killed many and gave sever illness
to many more and causing large economic harm. New South Wales were
never really keen on lockdowns - that was the message from their
politicians who exxpemted all sorts of things - until eventually they
had to virtually admit that they had lost control and that they had
given up - the Premier even giving up talking to residents trough
embarrassment, shame, or the wishful thinking that if she hides she
may not get the blame . . .
So our government has recently been talking about a target of 100% for
vaccinations, but also of considering moving to allow home isolation
for some returning New Zealanders so that more can return. Meanwhile
our government is funding research in New Zealand in relation to
vaccines and domestic production of vaccines - there is speculation
that we may need annual vaccinations similar to the infuenza vaccine.
So active research and planning is happening all the time, and for
those prepared to listen there is a wealth of material.
They've stopped talking about that several weeks ago. The current figure is 90% though some experts don't think we'll get that ever!
Post by Rich80105
These are also complex issues, with more than just health and business
https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL2109/S00040/on-the-moral-and-scientific-case-against-covid-booster-shots.htm
Just bitching and moaning will not get us anywhere, Tony
Looking at all options and pointing out government short comings isn't bitching and moaning unless your a well brainwashed (yeah I know an impossibility in your case Rich) imbecile like you Rich.
John Bowes
2021-09-18 21:23:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
Post by Gordon
https://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff-nation/126415739/i-believed-in-the-jacinda-effect-now-covid19-has-made-me-critical
It seems that some others are also wondering what the Covid road map is. The
lack of vision as to where we are going is very frustrating.
A good plan to-day is better than a perfect one tomorrow. As the saying
goes.
"One cannot be sure that any operational plan will survive the first
encounter with the main body of the enemy"
The plan with levels 1, 2, 3 and 4 worked quite well when they were
first developed - as time went onwe added various things like contact
tracing and isolation and testing. We started vaccinations, and were
able to come back down to level 1. Then we got Delta - the Enemy
modified itself, but we did not abandon the previous plan, we adapted
it.
So we have a Covid Road map for this stage - and we are getting used
to it - we understand bubbles; we understand why isolation is
desirable, we understand that it has changed from being presumed to
infect thrugh touch to infgecting through aerosols, and we have
changed level 2 a bit and introduced masks. Sounds like a fairly
stable plan . . .
The hard part is knowing when to stop doing parts of the process -
with unhindered international travel being an aim for some; not going
to levels 3 or 4 the aim for others. Some countries never went to our
level 4; others moved out more quickly than we did - and a very small
number (China being the most prominent) impose harder restrictions
than us.
So I would say we have a good plan, but we know we don't know
everything, and we know it will not be perfect, especially if the
virus changes again . . . Does that help?
The trouble with the governments covid roadmap is it's blank! No matter how you spin and lie Rich this government is incapable of seeing any future except New Zealand as another socialist/Marxist/Leninist failure. Though they like you Rich are stupid enough to see that failure as a rosy future!
James Christophers
2021-09-18 22:19:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gordon
https://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff-nation/126415739/i-believed-in-the-jacinda-effect-now-covid19-has-made-me-critical
It seems that some others are also wondering what the Covid road map is. The
lack of vision as to where we are going is very frustrating.
A good plan to-day is better than a perfect one tomorrow. As the saying
goes.
To get some idea of how various other countries are coping (or planning) just now try this:

https://blog.wego.com/international-reopening/

Select a country now open for travel and look up both its total deaths to date and the latest daily recorded number. Many have already published yesterday's (Sat 18th) - e.g. the UK's latest numbers are given in this listing:

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/

In which case it might be instructive to learn what kind of plan(s) the UK and other countries have either in mind or already in place for coping with what looks like becoming an endemic Covid-19 challenge worldwide.

Anybody?
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