Discussion:
The face of poverty in NZ
(too old to reply)
JohnO
2014-12-22 19:44:20 UTC
Permalink
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/64406798/kids-to-go-without-christmas-mum-says

Add that to the bludge tourists driving up from Hamilton to get a free Xmas party on the city mission...

Bludgers are making life very difficult for the genuinely needy.
geopelia
2014-12-27 21:08:48 UTC
Permalink
"JohnO" wrote in message news:4895d1e8-518d-4f29-879e-***@googlegroups.com...

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/64406798/kids-to-go-without-christmas-mum-says

Add that to the bludge tourists driving up from Hamilton to get a free Xmas
party on the city mission...

Bludgers are making life very difficult for the genuinely needy.

............

Are the tourists aware that the Christmas party is intended for the needy?
They might think it is a celebration for everyone.
Didn't a tour group some time ago make it officially part of a tour?
victor
2014-12-27 21:48:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by JohnO
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/64406798/kids-to-go-without-christmas-mum-says
Add that to the bludge tourists driving up from Hamilton to get a free
Xmas party on the city mission...
Bludgers are making life very difficult for the genuinely needy.
............
Are the tourists aware that the Christmas party is intended for the
needy? They might think it is a celebration for everyone.
Didn't a tour group some time ago make it officially part of a tour?
Its good fuel for the blustering indignation of privileged bigots.
JohnO
2014-12-30 21:45:31 UTC
Permalink
So victor thinks it's all ok for goods donated for the needy to be distributed to non needy lazy bludgers.

Nice.
victor
2014-12-30 22:41:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by JohnO
So victor thinks it's all ok for goods donated for the needy to be distributed to non needy lazy bludgers.
Nice.
The article is comment bait for bigots
JohnO
2015-01-03 21:24:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by victor
Post by JohnO
So victor thinks it's all ok for goods donated for the needy to be distributed to non needy lazy bludgers.
Nice.
The article is comment bait for bigots
So... victor can't dispute anything in an article, but doesn't like it, so just dismisses it.

That's how the thicker end of the left wing spectrum rolls, folks.
Enkidu
2015-01-03 21:52:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by JohnO
Post by victor
Post by JohnO
So victor thinks it's all ok for goods donated for the needy to
be distributed to non needy lazy bludgers.
Nice.
The article is comment bait for bigots
So... victor can't dispute anything in an article, but doesn't like
it, so just dismisses it.
That's how the thicker end of the left wing spectrum rolls, folks.
How can you tell the needy from the non-needy?

Cheers,

Cliff
victor
2015-01-04 00:39:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Enkidu
Post by JohnO
Post by victor
Post by JohnO
So victor thinks it's all ok for goods donated for the needy to
be distributed to non needy lazy bludgers.
Nice.
The article is comment bait for bigots
So... victor can't dispute anything in an article, but doesn't like
it, so just dismisses it.
That's how the thicker end of the left wing spectrum rolls, folks.
How can you tell the needy from the non-needy?
Cheers,
Cliff
JohnO just knows, its a gut feeling.
He finds a non needy case and it justifies all his prejudices
JohnO
2015-01-04 02:50:37 UTC
Permalink
Good old victor. Doesn't know jack shit so makes something up and puts it in someone else's mouth. All class at the thicker end of the left wing spectrum.
JohnO
2015-01-04 02:47:59 UTC
Permalink
Good question, Cliff. Maybe they should start asking the people ponying up for free stuff about their circumstances and also stating clearly who the free stuff is intended for. At the moment City Mission site no sign of caring. Donors well be caring and moving their largess to the Sallies.
victor
2015-01-04 04:03:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by JohnO
Good question, Cliff. Maybe they should start asking the people
ponying up for free stuff about their circumstances and also stating
clearly who the free stuff is intended for. At the moment City
Mission site no sign of caring. Donors well be caring and moving
their largess to the Sallies.
I expect when it gets to being a real problem they will have measures in
place.
Perhaps you could volunteer to turn people away according to your gut
feeling.
Someone as virtuous and concerned as yourself must be down there all the
time.
JohnO
2015-01-04 09:48:17 UTC
Permalink
We used to donate to CM but now the Sallies get that.
Dollars to donuts that victor donates zilch.
victor
2015-01-04 20:23:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by JohnO
We used to donate to CM but now the Sallies get that.
Dollars to donuts that victor donates zilch.
Its not unusual for me to donate to either, they often have appeals.
But smearing a charity and trying to put people off donating is pretty low.
Pooh
2015-01-04 21:35:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by victor
Post by JohnO
We used to donate to CM but now the Sallies get that.
Dollars to donuts that victor donates zilch.
Its not unusual for me to donate to either, they often have appeals.
But smearing a charity and trying to put people off donating is pretty low.
About as low as putting people off an opportunity to buy good shares in an
energy company Victor.

Pooh
Enkidu
2015-01-04 22:03:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pooh
Post by victor
Post by JohnO
We used to donate to CM but now the Sallies get that.
Dollars to donuts that victor donates zilch.
Its not unusual for me to donate to either, they often have appeals.
But smearing a charity and trying to put people off donating is pretty low.
About as low as putting people off an opportunity to buy good shares in an
energy company Victor.
The shares are still artificially high I notice.

Cheers,

Cliff
george152
2015-01-05 03:41:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Enkidu
Post by Pooh
Post by victor
Post by JohnO
We used to donate to CM but now the Sallies get that.
Dollars to donuts that victor donates zilch.
Its not unusual for me to donate to either, they often have appeals.
But smearing a charity and trying to put people off donating is pretty low.
About as low as putting people off an opportunity to buy good shares in an
energy company Victor.
The shares are still artificially high I notice.
Some-one doesn't understand market forces
JohnO
2015-01-08 07:53:55 UTC
Permalink
What part of "yield" don't you understand?
Rich80105
2015-01-08 09:33:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by JohnO
What part of "yield" don't you understand?
Are you referring to the additional yield achieved by a cartel?, or by
a recipient of National party largesse? Or the effective pay rate for
unemployed people trying to meet WINZ requirements?

What part did you think was misunderstood, "Liberty"?
JohnO
2015-01-08 18:37:23 UTC
Permalink
First of all, I'm not "Liberty", you fucking moron.

Secondly, yield is the dividend as a percentage of share price and it's the reason the market has priced the shares as they have. Simple stuff but beyond the grasp of force fed ideological luddites such as yourself and victor.
Rich80105
2015-01-08 20:59:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by JohnO
First of all, I'm not "Liberty", you fucking moron.
Secondly, yield is the dividend as a percentage of share price and
it's the reason the market has priced the shares as they have.
Simple stuff but beyond the grasp of force fed ideological
luddites such as yourself and victor.
I apologise to you and to "Liberty" for the insult due to my conjusing
one of you for the other; I can assure you both that it was not
deliberate.


I should have realised that you were not thinking any deeper than the
mere definition of a word - the real causes of that high yield are of
course the absence of a free and efficient market - but that was by
design oon the part of National who wanted to shift wealth from
electricity consumers to shareholders (including international
investors) and merchant bankers and other s invovled in the
fire-sales. National made much of the superior ability of the private
sector over Directors they had chosen themselves. In practice
Directors have by and large stayed in place, but with higher pay for
themselves and the CEO's, and without any significant changes in
operations - although the administrative cost of higher customer churn
will be costing consumers more - a nive spin to pretend consumers have
real choice as they ride the price escalators at slightly varying
rates; but all in excess of inflation and all over time rising at a
similar rate . . .

No wonder that advocate of spin over substance, Thera Gattung, got a
New Year honour - she epitomosed the "reforms" carried out by National
at a permanent loss of capital value to the New Zealand government.

Just another example of NAtional's poverty creating schemes, JohnO -
but you stick to high yields being good - too look a little deeper
into the scam may disturb you.
Well done in defining dividend yield - Are you referring to the
additional yield achieved by a cartel?, or by
a recipient of National party largesse? Or the effective pay rate for
unemployed people trying to meet WINZ requirements?
JohnO
2015-01-09 02:45:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
Post by JohnO
First of all, I'm not "Liberty", you fucking moron.
Secondly, yield is the dividend as a percentage of share price and
it's the reason the market has priced the shares as they have.
Simple stuff but beyond the grasp of force fed ideological
luddites such as yourself and victor.
I apologise to you and to "Liberty" for the insult due to my conjusing
one of you for the other; I can assure you both that it was not
deliberate.
No, stupidity is rarely deliberate. I suggest it is congenital.

\>
Post by Rich80105
I should have realised that you were not thinking any deeper than the
mere definition of a word - the real causes of that high yield are of
Of course I was thinking about the definition of the word. Unlike you I use the accepted meaning of words.
Post by Rich80105
course the absence of a free and efficient market - but that was by
design oon the part of National who wanted to shift wealth from
Oh the irony! Labour/Green want to remove free competition and apply a state regulator.
Post by Rich80105
electricity consumers to shareholders (including international
investors) and merchant bankers and other s invovled in the
fire-sales. National made much of the superior ability of the private
sector over Directors they had chosen themselves. In practice
Directors have by and large stayed in place, but with higher pay for
themselves and the CEO's, and without any significant changes in
operations - although the administrative cost of higher customer churn
will be costing consumers more - a nive spin to pretend consumers have
real choice as they ride the price escalators at slightly varying
rates; but all in excess of inflation and all over time rising at a
similar rate . . .
Sorry, that is a load of barely coherent, largely unreadable garbage that could have come straight out of North Korea or Venezuela.
Post by Rich80105
No wonder that advocate of spin over substance, Thera Gattung, got a
New Year honour - she epitomosed the "reforms" carried out by National
at a permanent loss of capital value to the New Zealand government.
Just another example of NAtional's poverty creating schemes, JohnO -
but you stick to high yields being good - too look a little deeper
into the scam may disturb you.
Well done in defining dividend yield - Are you referring to the
additional yield achieved by a cartel?, or by
a recipient of National party largesse? Or the effective pay rate for
unemployed people trying to meet WINZ requirements?
There's no cartel you fool. But your mates are all for creating a state one ...
Enkidu
2015-01-09 03:49:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by JohnO
On Thu, 8 Jan 2015 10:37:23 -0800 (PST), JohnO
Post by JohnO
First of all, I'm not "Liberty", you fucking moron.
Secondly, yield is the dividend as a percentage of share price
and it's the reason the market has priced the shares as they
have. Simple stuff but beyond the grasp of force fed ideological
luddites such as yourself and victor.
I apologise to you and to "Liberty" for the insult due to my
conjusing one of you for the other; I can assure you both that it
was not deliberate.
No, stupidity is rarely deliberate. I suggest it is congenital.
\>
I should have realised that you were not thinking any deeper than
the mere definition of a word - the real causes of that high yield
are of
Of course I was thinking about the definition of the word. Unlike you
I use the accepted meaning of words.
course the absence of a free and efficient market - but that was
by design oon the part of National who wanted to shift wealth from
Oh the irony! Labour/Green want to remove free competition and apply a state regulator.
The electricity market is far from a free market and will be until the
bloody aluminium smelter goes!

Cheers,

Cliff
Liberty
2015-01-09 09:12:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Enkidu
Post by JohnO
On Thu, 8 Jan 2015 10:37:23 -0800 (PST), JohnO
Post by JohnO
First of all, I'm not "Liberty", you fucking moron.
Secondly, yield is the dividend as a percentage of share price
and it's the reason the market has priced the shares as they
have. Simple stuff but beyond the grasp of force fed ideological
luddites such as yourself and victor.
I apologise to you and to "Liberty" for the insult due to my
conjusing one of you for the other; I can assure you both that it
was not deliberate.
No, stupidity is rarely deliberate. I suggest it is congenital.
\>
I should have realised that you were not thinking any deeper than
the mere definition of a word - the real causes of that high yield
are of
Of course I was thinking about the definition of the word. Unlike you
I use the accepted meaning of words.
course the absence of a free and efficient market - but that was
by design oon the part of National who wanted to shift wealth from
Oh the irony! Labour/Green want to remove free competition and apply a state regulator.
The electricity market is far from a free market and will be until the
bloody aluminium smelter goes!
Cheers,
Cliff
Classic Muldoonism. Ship thousands of tons of dirt to a smelter
using subsidized power. A really dumb idea. Right up there with
labours policy of employing more civil servants to increase the tax
take . So they can spend more on civil servants.
Remedy Close the smelter and fire thousands of civil servants.
Rich80105
2015-01-09 11:15:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Liberty
Post by Enkidu
Post by JohnO
On Thu, 8 Jan 2015 10:37:23 -0800 (PST), JohnO
Post by JohnO
First of all, I'm not "Liberty", you fucking moron.
Secondly, yield is the dividend as a percentage of share price
and it's the reason the market has priced the shares as they
have. Simple stuff but beyond the grasp of force fed ideological
luddites such as yourself and victor.
I apologise to you and to "Liberty" for the insult due to my
conjusing one of you for the other; I can assure you both that it
was not deliberate.
No, stupidity is rarely deliberate. I suggest it is congenital.
\>
I should have realised that you were not thinking any deeper than
the mere definition of a word - the real causes of that high yield
are of
Of course I was thinking about the definition of the word. Unlike you
I use the accepted meaning of words.
course the absence of a free and efficient market - but that was
by design oon the part of National who wanted to shift wealth from
Oh the irony! Labour/Green want to remove free competition and apply a state regulator.
The electricity market is far from a free market and will be until the
bloody aluminium smelter goes!
Cheers,
Cliff
Classic Muldoonism. Ship thousands of tons of dirt to a smelter
using subsidized power. A really dumb idea. Right up there with
labours policy of employing more civil servants to increase the tax
take . So they can spend more on civil servants.
Remedy Close the smelter and fire thousands of civil servants.
There are as many or more public servants as there were in 2008 when
National/ACT were elected.
Sometimes those "facts" that you "know" are wrong.
Pooh
2015-01-09 11:40:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
Post by Liberty
Post by Enkidu
Post by JohnO
On Thu, 8 Jan 2015 10:37:23 -0800 (PST), JohnO
Post by JohnO
First of all, I'm not "Liberty", you fucking moron.
Secondly, yield is the dividend as a percentage of share price
and it's the reason the market has priced the shares as they
have. Simple stuff but beyond the grasp of force fed ideological
luddites such as yourself and victor.
I apologise to you and to "Liberty" for the insult due to my
conjusing one of you for the other; I can assure you both that it
was not deliberate.
No, stupidity is rarely deliberate. I suggest it is congenital.
\>
I should have realised that you were not thinking any deeper than
the mere definition of a word - the real causes of that high yield
are of
Of course I was thinking about the definition of the word. Unlike you
I use the accepted meaning of words.
course the absence of a free and efficient market - but that was
by design oon the part of National who wanted to shift wealth from
Oh the irony! Labour/Green want to remove free competition and apply
a state regulator.
The electricity market is far from a free market and will be until the
bloody aluminium smelter goes!
Cheers,
Cliff
Classic Muldoonism. Ship thousands of tons of dirt to a smelter
using subsidized power. A really dumb idea. Right up there with
labours policy of employing more civil servants to increase the tax
take . So they can spend more on civil servants.
Remedy Close the smelter and fire thousands of civil servants.
There are as many or more public servants as there were in 2008 when
National/ACT were elected.
Sometimes those "facts" that you "know" are wrong.
However there are many thousands more than there were when Labour took over
in 1999 Dickhead.

Pooh

Enkidu
2015-01-08 22:17:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by JohnO
First of all, I'm not "Liberty", you fucking moron.
Secondly, yield is the dividend as a percentage of share price and
it's the reason the market has priced the shares as they have. Simple
stuff but beyond the grasp of force fed ideological luddites such as
yourself and victor.
There's many sorts 9of "yield". I'm guessing you mean the IRR or maybe
return to maturity. It's hard to tell as you leave no context.

Cheers,

Cliff
JohnO
2015-01-09 02:32:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Enkidu
Post by JohnO
First of all, I'm not "Liberty", you fucking moron.
Secondly, yield is the dividend as a percentage of share price and
it's the reason the market has priced the shares as they have. Simple
stuff but beyond the grasp of force fed ideological luddites such as
yourself and victor.
There's many sorts 9of "yield". I'm guessing you mean the IRR or maybe
return to maturity.
No and no. Sheesh.
Post by Enkidu
It's hard to tell as you leave no context.
Cheers,
Cliff
\The context of the thread was *share price* and in this context there's *one* meaning of yield... at least one meaning amongst those who have a fucking clue. "IRR" and "return to maturity" (did you mean "return to maturity"?) are so irrelevant as to make your post a bit of a joke, frankly, but not surprisingly.
Rich80105
2015-01-09 03:18:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by JohnO
Post by Enkidu
Post by JohnO
First of all, I'm not "Liberty", you fucking moron.
Secondly, yield is the dividend as a percentage of share price and
it's the reason the market has priced the shares as they have. Simple
stuff but beyond the grasp of force fed ideological luddites such as
yourself and victor.
There's many sorts 9of "yield". I'm guessing you mean the IRR or maybe
return to maturity.
No and no. Sheesh.
Post by Enkidu
It's hard to tell as you leave no context.
Cheers,
Cliff
\The context of the thread was *share price* and in this context there's
*one* meaning of yield... at least one meaning amongst those who have
a fucking clue. "IRR" and "return to maturity" (did you mean "return to
maturity"?) are so irrelevant as to make your post a bit of a joke,
frankly, but not surprisingly.
Did you mean yield on original proce paid at the time of the sale, or
on the value given up compared with vvalue received at that time (you
do realise the Stte took a huge balance sheet hit from teh sales,
don;t you?), or the projected future yield on current share price,
ignoring any possible reasonable market intervention at least until
the next election?

Maturity for many shareholders means the time to expected sale. I'd
guess you have not had much to do with the finance industry, JohnO.
JohnO
2015-01-09 03:48:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
Post by JohnO
Post by Enkidu
Post by JohnO
First of all, I'm not "Liberty", you fucking moron.
Secondly, yield is the dividend as a percentage of share price and
it's the reason the market has priced the shares as they have. Simple
stuff but beyond the grasp of force fed ideological luddites such as
yourself and victor.
There's many sorts 9of "yield". I'm guessing you mean the IRR or maybe
return to maturity.
No and no. Sheesh.
Post by Enkidu
It's hard to tell as you leave no context.
Cheers,
Cliff
\The context of the thread was *share price* and in this context there's
*one* meaning of yield... at least one meaning amongst those who have
a fucking clue. "IRR" and "return to maturity" (did you mean "return to
maturity"?) are so irrelevant as to make your post a bit of a joke,
frankly, but not surprisingly.
Did you mean yield on original proce paid at the time of the sale, or
on the value given up compared with vvalue received at that time (you
do realise the Stte took a huge balance sheet hit from teh sales,
don;t you?), or the projected future yield on current share price,
ignoring any possible reasonable market intervention at least until
the next election?
Dear god. How about trying that post again when you sober up?

I meant plain old dividend yield... as is commonly understood by most people who invest... not the crap you just posted in a pathetic attempt at regurgitating something you found on the internet but don't comprehend.
Post by Rich80105
Maturity for many shareholders means the time to expected sale. I'd
guess you have not had much to do with the finance industry, JohnO.
A lot more than you, based on that incoherent drivel. Dividend yield *per the thread* is very simple. Your gobbledygook just shows you up for the ignorant try-hard you are.
Rich80105
2015-01-09 08:11:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by JohnO
Post by Rich80105
Post by JohnO
Post by Enkidu
Post by JohnO
First of all, I'm not "Liberty", you fucking moron.
Secondly, yield is the dividend as a percentage of share price and
it's the reason the market has priced the shares as they have. Simple
stuff but beyond the grasp of force fed ideological luddites such as
yourself and victor.
There's many sorts 9of "yield". I'm guessing you mean the IRR or maybe
return to maturity.
No and no. Sheesh.
Post by Enkidu
It's hard to tell as you leave no context.
Cheers,
Cliff
\The context of the thread was *share price* and in this context there's
*one* meaning of yield... at least one meaning amongst those who have
a fucking clue. "IRR" and "return to maturity" (did you mean "return to
maturity"?) are so irrelevant as to make your post a bit of a joke,
frankly, but not surprisingly.
Did you mean yield on original proce paid at the time of the sale, or
on the value given up compared with vvalue received at that time (you
do realise the Stte took a huge balance sheet hit from teh sales,
don;t you?), or the projected future yield on current share price,
ignoring any possible reasonable market intervention at least until
the next election?
Dear god. How about trying that post again when you sober up?
I meant plain old dividend yield... as is commonly understood by most people who invest... not the crap you just posted in a pathetic attempt at regurgitating something you found on the internet but don't comprehend.
Post by Rich80105
Maturity for many shareholders means the time to expected sale. I'd
guess you have not had much to do with the finance industry, JohnO.
A lot more than you, based on that incoherent drivel. Dividend yield *per the thread* is very simple. Your gobbledygook just shows you up for the ignorant try-hard you are.
All too hard for you obviously JohnO. To make it easy for you,
National have failed with their electricity changes - they lost money
on the sale, and we are all paying more becuase hte system is broken.
Happy now?
JohnO
2015-01-09 09:50:46 UTC
Permalink
Happy to see you are still losing this argument.

Worked out how to use a threaded newsreader client yet?
Enkidu
2015-01-08 22:13:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by JohnO
What part of "yield" don't you understand?
Who knows? What the hell you are referring to? You've removed all context.

Cheers,

Cliff
JohnO
2015-01-09 02:34:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Enkidu
Post by JohnO
What part of "yield" don't you understand?
Who knows? What the hell you are referring to?
You've removed all context.
Mobile google groups does that. It seems that you, like Dickbot, are too technically weak to work out how to find the previous comment in a threaded newsreader?

But you must be getting quite demented if you didn't know the context as the context was your own: the share price! Sheesh.
Post by Enkidu
Cheers,
Cliff
Enkidu
2015-01-09 03:47:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by JohnO
Post by Enkidu
Post by JohnO
What part of "yield" don't you understand?
Who knows? What the hell you are referring to? You've removed all context.
Mobile google groups does that. It seems that you, like Dickbot, are
too technically weak to work out how to find the previous comment in
a threaded newsreader?
It also appears to create huge long lines.

I personally hide previous comments in my reader (Thunderbird) as you
end up either with hugely long tree of posts, or you have to keep
opening and closing threads to find previous posts. So I rely on context
in posts. If I really want to find a previous post it is often easier to
use Google Groups because the search is so good in GG. I don't like
posting in GG though because it has too many "quirks".

Cheers,

Cliff
Enkidu
2015-01-09 03:59:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Enkidu
Post by JohnO
Post by Enkidu
Post by JohnO
What part of "yield" don't you understand?
Who knows? What the hell you are referring to? You've removed all context.
Mobile google groups does that. It seems that you, like Dickbot,
are too technically weak to work out how to find the previous
comment in a threaded newsreader?
It also appears to create huge long lines.
I personally hide previous comments in my reader (Thunderbird) as you
end up either with hugely long tree of posts, or you have to keep
opening and closing threads to find previous posts. So I rely on
context in posts. If I really want to find a previous post it is
often easier to use Google Groups because the search is so good in
GG. I don't like posting in GG though because it has too many
"quirks".
Damn, I managed to create a bunch of long lines myself, without the
benefit of Google. I'm not sure how that happened.

Cheers,

Cliff
JohnO
2015-01-09 04:58:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Enkidu
Post by Enkidu
Post by JohnO
Post by Enkidu
Post by JohnO
What part of "yield" don't you understand?
Who knows? What the hell you are referring to? You've removed all context.
Mobile google groups does that. It seems that you, like Dickbot,
are too technically weak to work out how to find the previous
comment in a threaded newsreader?
It also appears to create huge long lines.
I personally hide previous comments in my reader (Thunderbird) as you
end up either with hugely long tree of posts, or you have to keep
opening and closing threads to find previous posts. So I rely on
context in posts. If I really want to find a previous post it is
often easier to use Google Groups because the search is so good in
GG. I don't like posting in GG though because it has too many
"quirks".
Damn, I managed to create a bunch of long lines myself, without the
benefit of Google. I'm not sure how that happened.
Cheers,
Cliff
Maybe the reader is supposed to wrap them?
victor
2015-01-04 22:13:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pooh
Post by victor
Post by JohnO
We used to donate to CM but now the Sallies get that.
Dollars to donuts that victor donates zilch.
Its not unusual for me to donate to either, they often have appeals.
But smearing a charity and trying to put people off donating is pretty low.
About as low as putting people off an opportunity to buy good shares in an
energy company Victor.
Pooh
Tory "moral equivalence".
Jesus wept!
Pooh
2015-01-04 22:47:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by victor
Post by Pooh
Post by victor
Post by JohnO
We used to donate to CM but now the Sallies get that.
Dollars to donuts that victor donates zilch.
Its not unusual for me to donate to either, they often have appeals.
But smearing a charity and trying to put people off donating is pretty low.
About as low as putting people off an opportunity to buy good shares in an
energy company Victor.
Pooh
Tory "moral equivalence".
Jesus wept!
Tory? Tell that to the marines Victor. You and Dickie will never get it as
long as you ignore Liebors clay feet.

Pooh

Pooh
Rich80105
2015-01-04 22:19:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pooh
Post by victor
Post by JohnO
We used to donate to CM but now the Sallies get that.
Dollars to donuts that victor donates zilch.
Its not unusual for me to donate to either, they often have appeals.
But smearing a charity and trying to put people off donating is pretty low.
About as low as putting people off an opportunity to buy good shares in an
energy company Victor.
Pooh
You just hate a well informed market, don't you Pooh. You don't really
believe in a free market finding its true level - typical of a crony
capitalist that believes the government should use all the levers of
power to bestow favours on its friends . . . while cutting back on
community support, claiming htat people should be able to make do with
charity, and then undermining just such a charity. You really are a
nasty troll, Pooh. (or perhaps following your deliberate mis-spelling
of names, you would prefer I called you Poop?)
Pooh
2015-01-04 22:46:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
Post by Pooh
Post by victor
Post by JohnO
We used to donate to CM but now the Sallies get that.
Dollars to donuts that victor donates zilch.
Its not unusual for me to donate to either, they often have appeals.
But smearing a charity and trying to put people off donating is pretty low.
About as low as putting people off an opportunity to buy good shares in an
energy company Victor.
Pooh
You just hate a well informed market, don't you Pooh. You don't really
believe in a free market finding its true level - typical of a crony
capitalist that believes the government should use all the levers of
power to bestow favours on its friends . . . while cutting back on
community support, claiming htat people should be able to make do with
charity, and then undermining just such a charity. You really are a
nasty troll, Pooh. (or perhaps following your deliberate mis-spelling
of names, you would prefer I called you Poop?)
Liebor/Green threatened to reverse the sales Dickhead! That's far from a
'well informed market' and is however the typical actions of bullys who's
only wish is to dictate every facet of life to people!

Pooh
Rich80105
2015-01-04 23:11:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pooh
Post by Rich80105
Post by Pooh
Post by victor
Post by JohnO
We used to donate to CM but now the Sallies get that.
Dollars to donuts that victor donates zilch.
Its not unusual for me to donate to either, they often have appeals.
But smearing a charity and trying to put people off donating is pretty low.
About as low as putting people off an opportunity to buy good shares in an
energy company Victor.
Pooh
You just hate a well informed market, don't you Pooh. You don't really
believe in a free market finding its true level - typical of a crony
capitalist that believes the government should use all the levers of
power to bestow favours on its friends . . . while cutting back on
community support, claiming htat people should be able to make do with
charity, and then undermining just such a charity. You really are a
nasty troll, Pooh. (or perhaps following your deliberate mis-spelling
of names, you would prefer I called you Poop?)
Liebor/Green threatened to reverse the sales Dickhead!
Cite? This appears to be just another Pooh lie.
Post by Pooh
That's far from a
'well informed market' and is however the typical actions of bullys who's
only wish is to dictate every facet of life to people!
Pooh
Liberty
2015-01-05 01:30:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
Post by Pooh
Liebor/Green threatened to reverse the sales Dickhead!
Cite? This appears to be just another Pooh lie.
No it is a fact.
The coalition of losers were going to nationalise the electricity market.
Just another example of why the Marxist where told to piss off by
heartland nz. Reflected in the market with share prices returning to normality.
Once the threat of Marxist government was gone.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Pooh
That's far from a
'well informed market' and is however the typical actions of bullys who's
only wish is to dictate every facet of life to people!
Pooh
victor
2015-01-05 03:18:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Liberty
Post by Rich80105
Post by Pooh
Liebor/Green threatened to reverse the sales Dickhead!
Cite? This appears to be just another Pooh lie.
No it is a fact.
The coalition of losers were going to nationalise the electricity market.
That's not the same thing is it.

The Greens proposal of NZ Power was for a single regulator which isn't
much different to the current single authority we have now. Just a
different price setting mechanism.
Its regulated either way, only a simulated marketplace and should be
possible in these days of computer algorithms to set a fair model that
retains the LMRC principle while eliminating the perverse effects.
Rich80105
2015-01-05 05:28:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Liberty
Post by Rich80105
Post by Pooh
Liebor/Green threatened to reverse the sales Dickhead!
Cite? This appears to be just another Pooh lie.
No it is a fact.
Then provide a cite. They promised to appropriately regulate the
industry, but they did not indicate that they would seek to reversethe
sales.

Provide a cite for either National or the Green Party (or indeed any
other party) threatening to reverse the sales, or apologise for your
lie.
Post by Liberty
The coalition of losers were going to nationalise the electricity market.
Again an assertion with no evidence to back it up. You are lying again
Pooh.
Post by Liberty
Just another example of why the Marxist where told to piss off by
heartland nz. Reflected in the market with share prices returning to normality.
Once the threat of Marxist government was gone.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Pooh
That's far from a
'well informed market' and is however the typical actions of bullys who's
only wish is to dictate every facet of life to people!
Pooh
Pooh
2015-01-05 08:13:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
Post by Liberty
Post by Rich80105
Post by Pooh
Liebor/Green threatened to reverse the sales Dickhead!
Cite? This appears to be just another Pooh lie.
No it is a fact.
Then provide a cite. They promised to appropriately regulate the
industry, but they did not indicate that they would seek to reversethe
sales.
Done!
Post by Rich80105
Provide a cite for either National or the Green Party (or indeed any
other party) threatening to reverse the sales, or apologise for your
lie.
Post by Liberty
The coalition of losers were going to nationalise the electricity market.
Again an assertion with no evidence to back it up. You are lying again
Pooh.
No I'm not Dickhead! As normal for you, you havn't got a fucking clue who
you're talking to. Now got see a doctor to remove your head from your arse
and try again dumbo.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Liberty
Just another example of why the Marxist where told to piss off by
heartland nz. Reflected in the market with share prices returning to normality.
Once the threat of Marxist government was gone.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Pooh
That's far from a
'well informed market' and is however the typical actions of bullys who's
only wish is to dictate every facet of life to people!
Pooh
Pooh
2015-01-05 03:26:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
Post by Pooh
Post by Rich80105
Post by Pooh
Post by victor
Post by JohnO
We used to donate to CM but now the Sallies get that.
Dollars to donuts that victor donates zilch.
Its not unusual for me to donate to either, they often have appeals.
But smearing a charity and trying to put people off donating is pretty low.
About as low as putting people off an opportunity to buy good shares in an
energy company Victor.
Pooh
You just hate a well informed market, don't you Pooh. You don't really
believe in a free market finding its true level - typical of a crony
capitalist that believes the government should use all the levers of
power to bestow favours on its friends . . . while cutting back on
community support, claiming htat people should be able to make do with
charity, and then undermining just such a charity. You really are a
nasty troll, Pooh. (or perhaps following your deliberate mis-spelling
of names, you would prefer I called you Poop?)
Liebor/Green threatened to reverse the sales Dickhead!
Cite? This appears to be just another Pooh lie.
You need to get some help for your crappy marxist memory Dickhead! Silent T
had a special press confrence to announce the policy!

http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/labour-would-look-buying-back-assets-%E2%80%94-cunliffe-ck-158805Don't worry about an appology Dickhead. I'm used to you being like yourmarxist mates and being a total fuckwit these days.>>That's far from a>>'well informed market' and is however the typical actions of bullys who's>>only wish is to dictate every facet of life to people!>>>>Pooh>>Nice you agree it's the tactics of buyys Dickhead. Just maybe there's somehope for you yet.Pooh
Rich80105
2015-01-05 05:30:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pooh
Post by Rich80105
Post by Pooh
Post by Rich80105
Post by Pooh
Post by victor
Post by JohnO
We used to donate to CM but now the Sallies get that.
Dollars to donuts that victor donates zilch.
Its not unusual for me to donate to either, they often have appeals.
But smearing a charity and trying to put people off donating is pretty low.
About as low as putting people off an opportunity to buy good shares in an
energy company Victor.
Pooh
You just hate a well informed market, don't you Pooh. You don't really
believe in a free market finding its true level - typical of a crony
capitalist that believes the government should use all the levers of
power to bestow favours on its friends . . . while cutting back on
community support, claiming htat people should be able to make do with
charity, and then undermining just such a charity. You really are a
nasty troll, Pooh. (or perhaps following your deliberate mis-spelling
of names, you would prefer I called you Poop?)
Liebor/Green threatened to reverse the sales Dickhead!
Cite? This appears to be just another Pooh lie.
You need to get some help for your crappy marxist memory Dickhead! Silent T
had a special press confrence to announce the policy!
http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/labour-would-look-buying-back-assets-%E2%80%94-cunliffe-ck-158805Don't worry about an appology Dickhead. I'm used to you being like yourmarxist mates and being a total fuckwit these days.>>That's far from a>>'well informed market' and is however the typical actions of bullys who's>>only wish is to dictate every facet of life to people!>>>>Pooh>>Nice you agree it's the tactics of buyys Dickhead. Just maybe there's somehope for you yet.Pooh
How very appropriate for a "Cite" from Pooh - that page says:
"PAGE NOT FOUND
Sorry, it looks like that page doesn’t exist"
Pooh
2015-01-05 08:14:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
Post by Pooh
Post by Rich80105
Post by Pooh
Post by Rich80105
Post by Pooh
Post by victor
Post by JohnO
We used to donate to CM but now the Sallies get that.
Dollars to donuts that victor donates zilch.
Its not unusual for me to donate to either, they often have appeals.
But smearing a charity and trying to put people off donating is
pretty
low.
About as low as putting people off an opportunity to buy good shares
in
an
energy company Victor.
Pooh
You just hate a well informed market, don't you Pooh. You don't really
believe in a free market finding its true level - typical of a crony
capitalist that believes the government should use all the levers of
power to bestow favours on its friends . . . while cutting back on
community support, claiming htat people should be able to make do with
charity, and then undermining just such a charity. You really are a
nasty troll, Pooh. (or perhaps following your deliberate mis-spelling
of names, you would prefer I called you Poop?)
Liebor/Green threatened to reverse the sales Dickhead!
Cite? This appears to be just another Pooh lie.
You need to get some help for your crappy marxist memory Dickhead! Silent T
had a special press confrence to announce the policy!
http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/labour-would-look-buying-back-assets-%E2%80%94-cunliffe-ck-158805Don't
worry about an appology Dickhead. I'm used to you being like yourmarxist
mates and being a total fuckwit these days.>>That's far from a>>'well
informed market' and is however the typical actions of bullys who's>>only
wish is to dictate every facet of life to people!>>>>Pooh>>Nice you agree
it's the tactics of buyys Dickhead. Just maybe there's somehope for you
yet.Pooh
"PAGE NOT FOUND
Sorry, it looks like that page doesn't exist"
Sorry Dickhead. It's your 'technical skills' that don't exist you gormless
marxist misfir.

Pooh
Rich80105
2015-01-05 19:04:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pooh
Post by Rich80105
Post by Pooh
Post by Rich80105
Post by Pooh
Post by Rich80105
Post by Pooh
Post by victor
Post by JohnO
We used to donate to CM but now the Sallies get that.
Dollars to donuts that victor donates zilch.
Its not unusual for me to donate to either, they often have appeals.
But smearing a charity and trying to put people off donating is
pretty
low.
About as low as putting people off an opportunity to buy good shares
in
an
energy company Victor.
Pooh
You just hate a well informed market, don't you Pooh. You don't really
believe in a free market finding its true level - typical of a crony
capitalist that believes the government should use all the levers of
power to bestow favours on its friends . . . while cutting back on
community support, claiming htat people should be able to make do with
charity, and then undermining just such a charity. You really are a
nasty troll, Pooh. (or perhaps following your deliberate mis-spelling
of names, you would prefer I called you Poop?)
Liebor/Green threatened to reverse the sales Dickhead!
Cite? This appears to be just another Pooh lie.
You need to get some help for your crappy marxist memory Dickhead! Silent T
had a special press confrence to announce the policy!
http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/labour-would-look-buying-back-assets-%E2%80%94-cunliffe-ck-158805Don't
worry about an appology Dickhead. I'm used to you being like yourmarxist
mates and being a total fuckwit these days.>>That's far from a>>'well
informed market' and is however the typical actions of bullys who's>>only
wish is to dictate every facet of life to people!>>>>Pooh>>Nice you agree
it's the tactics of buyys Dickhead. Just maybe there's somehope for you
yet.Pooh
"PAGE NOT FOUND
Sorry, it looks like that page doesn't exist"
Sorry Dickhead. It's your 'technical skills' that don't exist you gormless
marxist misfir.
Pooh
Nah - you just missed all of the url Pooh - you are incompetent as
well as wrong
Pooh
2015-01-06 00:42:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
Post by Pooh
Post by Rich80105
Post by Pooh
Post by Rich80105
Post by Pooh
Post by Rich80105
Post by Pooh
Post by victor
Post by JohnO
We used to donate to CM but now the Sallies get that.
Dollars to donuts that victor donates zilch.
Its not unusual for me to donate to either, they often have appeals.
But smearing a charity and trying to put people off donating is
pretty
low.
About as low as putting people off an opportunity to buy good shares
in
an
energy company Victor.
Pooh
You just hate a well informed market, don't you Pooh. You don't really
believe in a free market finding its true level - typical of a crony
capitalist that believes the government should use all the levers of
power to bestow favours on its friends . . . while cutting back on
community support, claiming htat people should be able to make do with
charity, and then undermining just such a charity. You really are a
nasty troll, Pooh. (or perhaps following your deliberate mis-spelling
of names, you would prefer I called you Poop?)
Liebor/Green threatened to reverse the sales Dickhead!
Cite? This appears to be just another Pooh lie.
You need to get some help for your crappy marxist memory Dickhead!
Silent
T
had a special press confrence to announce the policy!
http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/labour-would-look-buying-back-assets-%E2%80%94-cunliffe-ck-158805Don't
worry about an appology Dickhead. I'm used to you being like yourmarxist
mates and being a total fuckwit these days.>>That's far from a>>'well
informed market' and is however the typical actions of bullys who's>>only
wish is to dictate every facet of life to people!>>>>Pooh>>Nice you agree
it's the tactics of buyys Dickhead. Just maybe there's somehope for you
yet.Pooh
"PAGE NOT FOUND
Sorry, it looks like that page doesn't exist"
Sorry Dickhead. It's your 'technical skills' that don't exist you gormless
marxist misfir.
Pooh
Nah - you just missed all of the url Pooh - you are incompetent as
well as wrong
Didn't miss anything except a space before I commented Dickhead. Your
incompetence and lack of 'technical skills' failed to pick up the error.
You're the ones who's wrong as usual.

Pooh
Rich80105
2015-01-06 02:47:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pooh
Post by Rich80105
Post by Pooh
Post by Rich80105
Post by Pooh
Post by Rich80105
Post by Pooh
Post by Rich80105
Post by Pooh
Post by victor
Post by JohnO
We used to donate to CM but now the Sallies get that.
Dollars to donuts that victor donates zilch.
Its not unusual for me to donate to either, they often have appeals.
But smearing a charity and trying to put people off donating is
pretty
low.
About as low as putting people off an opportunity to buy good shares
in
an
energy company Victor.
Pooh
You just hate a well informed market, don't you Pooh. You don't really
believe in a free market finding its true level - typical of a crony
capitalist that believes the government should use all the levers of
power to bestow favours on its friends . . . while cutting back on
community support, claiming htat people should be able to make do with
charity, and then undermining just such a charity. You really are a
nasty troll, Pooh. (or perhaps following your deliberate mis-spelling
of names, you would prefer I called you Poop?)
Liebor/Green threatened to reverse the sales Dickhead!
Cite? This appears to be just another Pooh lie.
You need to get some help for your crappy marxist memory Dickhead!
Silent
T
had a special press confrence to announce the policy!
http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/labour-would-look-buying-back-assets-%E2%80%94-cunliffe-ck-158805Don't
worry about an appology Dickhead. I'm used to you being like yourmarxist
mates and being a total fuckwit these days.>>That's far from a>>'well
informed market' and is however the typical actions of bullys who's>>only
wish is to dictate every facet of life to people!>>>>Pooh>>Nice you agree
it's the tactics of buyys Dickhead. Just maybe there's somehope for you
yet.Pooh
"PAGE NOT FOUND
Sorry, it looks like that page doesn't exist"
Sorry Dickhead. It's your 'technical skills' that don't exist you gormless
marxist misfir.
Pooh
Nah - you just missed all of the url Pooh - you are incompetent as
well as wrong
Didn't miss anything except a space before I commented Dickhead. Your
incompetence and lack of 'technical skills' failed to pick up the error.
You're the ones who's wrong as usual.
Pooh
So your error is my fault - oh yes of course you are a National
supporter . . .
victor
2015-01-06 05:05:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
So your error is my fault - oh yes of course you are a National
supporter . . .
Perhaps he is just posing as one to make them look bad.
Pooh
2015-01-06 08:08:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by victor
Post by Rich80105
So your error is my fault - oh yes of course you are a National
supporter . . .
Perhaps he is just posing as one to make them look bad.
Good fucking grief! Another thick as shit marxist muppet.

Pooh
Pooh
2015-01-06 08:07:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
Post by Pooh
Post by Rich80105
Post by Pooh
Post by Rich80105
Post by Pooh
Post by Rich80105
Post by Pooh
Post by Rich80105
Post by Pooh
Post by victor
Post by JohnO
We used to donate to CM but now the Sallies get that.
Dollars to donuts that victor donates zilch.
Its not unusual for me to donate to either, they often have appeals.
But smearing a charity and trying to put people off donating is
pretty
low.
About as low as putting people off an opportunity to buy good shares
in
an
energy company Victor.
Pooh
You just hate a well informed market, don't you Pooh. You don't really
believe in a free market finding its true level - typical of a crony
capitalist that believes the government should use all the levers of
power to bestow favours on its friends . . . while cutting back on
community support, claiming htat people should be able to make do with
charity, and then undermining just such a charity. You really are a
nasty troll, Pooh. (or perhaps following your deliberate mis-spelling
of names, you would prefer I called you Poop?)
Liebor/Green threatened to reverse the sales Dickhead!
Cite? This appears to be just another Pooh lie.
You need to get some help for your crappy marxist memory Dickhead!
Silent
T
had a special press confrence to announce the policy!
http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/labour-would-look-buying-back-assets-%E2%80%94-cunliffe-ck-158805Don't
worry about an appology Dickhead. I'm used to you being like yourmarxist
mates and being a total fuckwit these days.>>That's far from a>>'well
informed market' and is however the typical actions of bullys who's>>only
wish is to dictate every facet of life to people!>>>>Pooh>>Nice you agree
it's the tactics of buyys Dickhead. Just maybe there's somehope for you
yet.Pooh
"PAGE NOT FOUND
Sorry, it looks like that page doesn't exist"
Sorry Dickhead. It's your 'technical skills' that don't exist you gormless
marxist misfir.
Pooh
Nah - you just missed all of the url Pooh - you are incompetent as
well as wrong
Didn't miss anything except a space before I commented Dickhead. Your
incompetence and lack of 'technical skills' failed to pick up the error.
You're the ones who's wrong as usual.
Pooh
So your error is my fault - oh yes of course you are a National
supporter . . .
Don't hold me responsable for your stupidity Dickhead. Not my fault you're
totaly lacking in comprehension skills or 'technical skills'.

Pooh
Enkidu
2015-01-05 07:47:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
Post by Pooh
Post by Rich80105
Post by Pooh
Post by victor
Post by JohnO
We used to donate to CM but now the Sallies get that.
Dollars to donuts that victor donates zilch.
Its not unusual for me to donate to either, they often have
appeals. But smearing a charity and trying to put people off
donating is pretty low.
About as low as putting people off an opportunity to buy good
shares in an energy company Victor.
Pooh
You just hate a well informed market, don't you Pooh. You don't
really believe in a free market finding its true level - typical
of a crony capitalist that believes the government should use all
the levers of power to bestow favours on its friends . . . while
cutting back on community support, claiming htat people should be
able to make do with charity, and then undermining just such a
charity. You really are a nasty troll, Pooh. (or perhaps
following your deliberate mis-spelling of names, you would prefer
I called you Poop?)
Liebor/Green threatened to reverse the sales Dickhead!
Cite? This appears to be just another Pooh lie.
They said that they would TRY to purchase the company back. When the
assets have all been extracted, and the company is worth zip, the
Government will be expected to bail them out.

Cheers,

Cliff
Enkidu
2015-01-05 07:44:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pooh
Post by Rich80105
Post by Pooh
Post by victor
Post by JohnO
We used to donate to CM but now the Sallies get that.
Dollars to donuts that victor donates zilch.
Its not unusual for me to donate to either, they often have appeals.
But smearing a charity and trying to put people off donating is pretty low.
About as low as putting people off an opportunity to buy good shares in an
energy company Victor.
Pooh
You just hate a well informed market, don't you Pooh. You don't really
believe in a free market finding its true level - typical of a crony
capitalist that believes the government should use all the levers of
power to bestow favours on its friends . . . while cutting back on
community support, claiming htat people should be able to make do with
charity, and then undermining just such a charity. You really are a
nasty troll, Pooh. (or perhaps following your deliberate mis-spelling
of names, you would prefer I called you Poop?)
Liebor/Green threatened to reverse the sales Dickhead! That's far from a
'well informed market' and is however the typical actions of bullys who's
only wish is to dictate every facet of life to people!
It would have been far too expensive. National had already pushed the
company off the cliff.

Cheers,

Cliff
JohnO
2015-01-08 18:44:20 UTC
Permalink
Who smeared a charity? Good old victor, making shit up once again?
Rich80105
2015-01-08 21:02:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by JohnO
Who smeared a charity? Good old victor, making shit up once again?
Why are you claiming that your smearing victor was victor smearing a
charity?
Post by JohnO
We used to donate to CM but now the Sallies get that.
Dollars to donuts that victor donates zilch.
Did you think that by leaving out previous posts your deception would
not be discovered, JohnO?
JohnO
2015-01-09 02:24:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
Post by JohnO
Who smeared a charity? Good old victor, making shit up once again?
Why are you claiming that your smearing victor was victor smearing a
charity?
I'm not, you insufferable dimwit.
Post by Rich80105
Post by JohnO
We used to donate to CM but now the Sallies get that.
Dollars to donuts that victor donates zilch.
Did you think that by leaving out previous posts your deception would
not be discovered, JohnO?
You stupid little moron. In victor's reply to me he says "But smearing a charity and trying to put people off donating is pretty low."

But of course he made that up as nowhere in this thread did I smear any charity and nowhere did I suggest people stop donating to charity.

You lefties are a tragic mix of utter stupidity and dishonesty.

Oh, and I didn't remove any context. Using google groups from a the mobile interface does that automatically. Of course if the reader has half a brain and a threaded newsreader they can look up a level to capture the context. Much too difficult for the likes of a dullard like you though, Dickbot.
Rich80105
2015-01-09 03:05:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by JohnO
Post by Rich80105
Post by JohnO
Who smeared a charity? Good old victor, making shit up once again?
Why are you claiming that your smearing victor was victor smearing a
charity?
I'm not, you insufferable dimwit.
Post by Rich80105
Post by JohnO
We used to donate to CM but now the Sallies get that.
Dollars to donuts that victor donates zilch.
Did you think that by leaving out previous posts your deception would
not be discovered, JohnO?
You stupid little moron. In victor's reply to me he says "But smearing a charity and trying to put people off donating is pretty low."
But of course he made that up as nowhere in this thread did I smear any charity and nowhere did I suggest people stop donating to charity.
You lefties are a tragic mix of utter stupidity and dishonesty.
Oh, and I didn't remove any context. Using google groups from a the mobile interface
does that automatically. Of course if the reader has half a brain and a threaded
newsreader they can look up a level to capture the context. Much too difficult
for the likes of a dullard like you though, Dickbot.
Your tendency to omit all context does lead to misunderstandings - you
now appear to have smeared victor for a comment quoted by you either
out of context, or that was a legitimate opinion based on one of your
previous posts - but I doubt many will go back through a very long
thread to find out what was sais quite some time ago. If you are to
make isolated comments, you can expect them to give an impression that
you may not have intended.
Enkidu
2015-01-09 03:11:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by JohnO
On Thu, 8 Jan 2015 10:44:20 -0800 (PST), JohnO
Post by JohnO
Who smeared a charity? Good old victor, making shit up once
again?
Why are you claiming that your smearing victor was victor smearing
a charity?
I'm not, you insufferable dimwit.
Post by JohnO
We used to donate to CM but now the Sallies get that. Dollars to
donuts that victor donates zilch.
Did you think that by leaving out previous posts your deception
would not be discovered, JohnO?
You stupid little moron. In victor's reply to me he says "But
smearing a charity and trying to put people off donating is pretty
low."
But of course he made that up as nowhere in this thread did I smear
any charity and nowhere did I suggest people stop donating to
charity.
You lefties are a tragic mix of utter stupidity and dishonesty.
Oh, and I didn't remove any context. Using google groups from a the
mobile interface does that automatically. Of course if the reader has
half a brain and a threaded newsreader they can look up a level to
capture the context. Much too difficult for the likes of a dullard
like you though.
Interesting. What app do you use, John?

Cheers,

Cliff
JohnO
2015-01-09 03:51:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Enkidu
Post by JohnO
On Thu, 8 Jan 2015 10:44:20 -0800 (PST), JohnO
Post by JohnO
Who smeared a charity? Good old victor, making shit up once again?
Why are you claiming that your smearing victor was victor smearing
a charity?
I'm not, you insufferable dimwit.
Post by JohnO
We used to donate to CM but now the Sallies get that. Dollars to
donuts that victor donates zilch.
Did you think that by leaving out previous posts your deception
would not be discovered, JohnO?
You stupid little moron. In victor's reply to me he says "But
smearing a charity and trying to put people off donating is pretty
low."
But of course he made that up as nowhere in this thread did I smear
any charity and nowhere did I suggest people stop donating to
charity.
You lefties are a tragic mix of utter stupidity and dishonesty.
Oh, and I didn't remove any context. Using google groups from a the
mobile interface does that automatically. Of course if the reader has
half a brain and a threaded newsreader they can look up a level to
capture the context. Much too difficult for the likes of a dullard
like you though.
Interesting. What app do you use, John?
Cheers,
Cliff
Google chrome on Android and mobile google groups when on holiday, but this post is from chrome on Win7 on the non-mobile google groups.

Google groups is very flawed - but it is available from anywhere.
Enkidu
2015-01-09 04:13:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by JohnO
Post by Enkidu
Post by JohnO
On Thu, 8 Jan 2015 10:44:20 -0800 (PST), JohnO
Post by JohnO
Who smeared a charity? Good old victor, making shit up once again?
Why are you claiming that your smearing victor was victor
smearing a charity?
I'm not, you insufferable dimwit.
Post by JohnO
We used to donate to CM but now the Sallies get that. Dollars
to donuts that victor donates zilch.
Did you think that by leaving out previous posts your
deception would not be discovered, JohnO?
You stupid little moron. In victor's reply to me he says "But
smearing a charity and trying to put people off donating is
pretty low."
But of course he made that up as nowhere in this thread did I
smear any charity and nowhere did I suggest people stop donating
to charity.
You lefties are a tragic mix of utter stupidity and dishonesty.
Oh, and I didn't remove any context. Using google groups from a
the mobile interface does that automatically. Of course if the
reader has half a brain and a threaded newsreader they can look
up a level to capture the context. Much too difficult for the
likes of a dullard like you though.
Interesting. What app do you use, John?
Google chrome on Android and mobile google groups when on holiday,
but this post is from chrome on Win7 on the non-mobile google
groups.
Google groups is very flawed - but it is available from anywhere.
That's the only positive thing that can be said about it.

Cheers,

Cliff
JohnO
2015-01-09 04:59:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Enkidu
Post by JohnO
Post by Enkidu
Post by JohnO
On Thu, 8 Jan 2015 10:44:20 -0800 (PST), JohnO
Post by JohnO
Who smeared a charity? Good old victor, making shit up once again?
Why are you claiming that your smearing victor was victor
smearing a charity?
I'm not, you insufferable dimwit.
Post by JohnO
We used to donate to CM but now the Sallies get that. Dollars
to donuts that victor donates zilch.
Did you think that by leaving out previous posts your
deception would not be discovered, JohnO?
You stupid little moron. In victor's reply to me he says "But
smearing a charity and trying to put people off donating is
pretty low."
But of course he made that up as nowhere in this thread did I
smear any charity and nowhere did I suggest people stop donating
to charity.
You lefties are a tragic mix of utter stupidity and dishonesty.
Oh, and I didn't remove any context. Using google groups from a
the mobile interface does that automatically. Of course if the
reader has half a brain and a threaded newsreader they can look
up a level to capture the context. Much too difficult for the
likes of a dullard like you though.
Interesting. What app do you use, John?
Google chrome on Android and mobile google groups when on holiday,
but this post is from chrome on Win7 on the non-mobile google
groups.
Google groups is very flawed - but it is available from anywhere.
That's the only positive thing that can be said about it.
Cheers,
Cliff
Sounds like an opportunity ... for someone to implement <your fave newsreader client> as a web app.
Enkidu
2015-01-04 21:52:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by JohnO
Good question, Cliff. Maybe they should start asking the people
ponying up for free stuff about their circumstances and also stating
clearly who the free stuff is intended for. At the moment City
Mission site no sign of caring. Donors well be caring and moving
their largess to the Sallies.
It's pretty sick to demand a means test before people are given anything.

Cheers,

Cliff
r***@libertarianz.org.nz
2015-01-05 09:40:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Enkidu
It's pretty sick to demand a means test before people are given anything.
Cheers,
Cliff
Why, Cliff? Wouldn't that better determine who really needs the help?
victor
2015-01-05 19:46:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by r***@libertarianz.org.nz
Post by Enkidu
It's pretty sick to demand a means test before people are given anything.
Cheers,
Cliff
Why, Cliff? Wouldn't that better determine who really needs the help?
Its used as an intimidatory tactic usually.
Enkidu
2015-01-05 22:19:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by victor
Post by r***@libertarianz.org.nz
Post by Enkidu
It's pretty sick to demand a means test before people are given anything.
Cheers,
Cliff
Why, Cliff? Wouldn't that better determine who really needs the help?
Its used as an intimidatory tactic usually.
Well, we don't have specific means tests in NZ, but all applicants for
benefits have to reveal their financial status, living arrangements and
so on. I don't see the need.

Cheers,

Cliff
Enkidu
2015-01-05 22:18:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by r***@libertarianz.org.nz
Post by Enkidu
It's pretty sick to demand a means test before people are given anything.
Why, Cliff? Wouldn't that better determine who really needs the help?
Suuuuure! Means tests are simply a method for refusing help. You
probably don't know this but when one applies for a benefit or
assistance one doesn't just walk in there and get it. One has to fill in
forms which ask for all sorts of information, *including incomes and
assets*, living arrangements and the result is *not* a forgone
conclusion. Government Departments can refuse a benefit or assistance
(on a whim it seems) and they don't have to reveal the reason for
refusal. A person can appeal a refusal of a benefit or assistance, but
it is a difficult process.

Cheers,

Cliff
Rich80105
2015-01-06 10:12:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Enkidu
Post by r***@libertarianz.org.nz
Post by Enkidu
It's pretty sick to demand a means test before people are given anything.
Why, Cliff? Wouldn't that better determine who really needs the help?
Suuuuure! Means tests are simply a method for refusing help. You
probably don't know this but when one applies for a benefit or
assistance one doesn't just walk in there and get it. One has to fill in
forms which ask for all sorts of information, *including incomes and
assets*, living arrangements and the result is *not* a forgone
conclusion. Government Departments can refuse a benefit or assistance
(on a whim it seems) and they don't have to reveal the reason for
refusal. A person can appeal a refusal of a benefit or assistance, but
it is a difficult process.
Cheers,
Cliff
Elegibility for a benefit does require some knowledge of
personal circumstances by the government, and the rules for benefits
passe by successive governments do require more than just tax returns.
For NZ Superannuation, eligibility relates to time spent in New
Zealand, for other benefits, and in particular unemployment benefit,
the information required is very extensive, and does in my view amount
to a means test in most cases. The nasty part arises in the targets
given to WINZ to reduce expenditure on benefits - officially denied of
course, but supported by "bene-bashing" by politicians and bonuses for
"right thinking" Chief Executives.

Teh effect has been that many rely on charities as well as the state -
and charities themselves have been forced to ensure that their support
goes to where it is most needed by requiring people asking for help to
have budget assistance. In addition, there are many organisations that
help people to understand their rights under the legislation, and to
complete the complex forms necessary. This keeps government costs down
by shifting that work from over-worked public servants to charities.
The charities are in turn prevented from making too much of a fuss by
receiving some government assistance - they know that if they get too
public about unfairness they will lose their funding.

It all really started under the Bolger government. I recently watched
again the following documentary from some years ago.
http://www.nzonscreen.com/title/in-a-land-of-plenty-2002

Its worth looking at Clips 5 and 6 in particular to see the way Labour
post 1984 went off the rails, but how National further betrayed New
Zealand by their blinkered ideological decisions.

Now we have the same blinkered decisions being followed again, with
the same broken political promises and the same poor financial and
social effects on most New Zealanders - but of course with advantage
to the very wealthy.

If that is all a bit depressing, there is hope - by working together
we can get rid of teh unethical Nat/ACt's at the next election. They
will have left us in a much worse financial position then they
inherited, but only then can we start unwinding their anti-worker
(including now professionals, domestic businesses as well as most
employees) policies.
Pooh
2015-01-06 23:19:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
Post by Enkidu
Post by r***@libertarianz.org.nz
Post by Enkidu
It's pretty sick to demand a means test before people are given anything.
Why, Cliff? Wouldn't that better determine who really needs the help?
Suuuuure! Means tests are simply a method for refusing help. You
probably don't know this but when one applies for a benefit or
assistance one doesn't just walk in there and get it. One has to fill in
forms which ask for all sorts of information, *including incomes and
assets*, living arrangements and the result is *not* a forgone
conclusion. Government Departments can refuse a benefit or assistance
(on a whim it seems) and they don't have to reveal the reason for
refusal. A person can appeal a refusal of a benefit or assistance, but
it is a difficult process.
Cheers,
Cliff
Elegibility for a benefit does require some knowledge of
personal circumstances by the government, and the rules for benefits
passe by successive governments do require more than just tax returns.
For NZ Superannuation, eligibility relates to time spent in New
Zealand, for other benefits, and in particular unemployment benefit,
the information required is very extensive, and does in my view amount
to a means test in most cases. The nasty part arises in the targets
given to WINZ to reduce expenditure on benefits - officially denied of
course, but supported by "bene-bashing" by politicians and bonuses for
"right thinking" Chief Executives.
Teh effect has been that many rely on charities as well as the state -
and charities themselves have been forced to ensure that their support
goes to where it is most needed by requiring people asking for help to
have budget assistance. In addition, there are many organisations that
help people to understand their rights under the legislation, and to
complete the complex forms necessary. This keeps government costs down
by shifting that work from over-worked public servants to charities.
The charities are in turn prevented from making too much of a fuss by
receiving some government assistance - they know that if they get too
public about unfairness they will lose their funding.
It all really started under the Bolger government. I recently watched
again the following documentary from some years ago.
http://www.nzonscreen.com/title/in-a-land-of-plenty-2002
Don'y you mean free political broadcast Dickie. Though do have to admit that
if people arn't as biased and blind towards the lefts faults they won't
realise it's as scathing of Liebors lack of action to help workers as
Nationals.
Post by Rich80105
Its worth looking at Clips 5 and 6 in particular to see the way Labour
post 1984 went off the rails, but how National further betrayed New
Zealand by their blinkered ideological decisions.
Today Liebor is doing exactly the same thing Dickie.
Post by Rich80105
Now we have the same blinkered decisions being followed again, with
the same broken political promises and the same poor financial and
social effects on most New Zealanders - but of course with advantage
to the very wealthy.
What do you do to support your lifestyle Dickie. Give us some facts this
time instead of a spiel worthy of the Nigerian scamster <Madman> like you
did last time.
Post by Rich80105
If that is all a bit depressing, there is hope - by working together
we can get rid of teh unethical Nat/ACt's at the next election. They
will have left us in a much worse financial position then they
inherited, but only then can we start unwinding their anti-worker
(including now professionals, domestic businesses as well as most
employees) policies.
You'd rather have the ethicless and moraly bankrupt Liebor/Greens turning us
into another soviet paradise Dickie?

Pooh
george152
2015-01-06 20:38:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by r***@libertarianz.org.nz
Post by Enkidu
It's pretty sick to demand a means test before people are given anything.
Cheers,
Cliff
Why, Cliff? Wouldn't that better determine who really needs the help?
Now you're being logical. Liebor hate logic.
You'll be off their christmas list
Pooh
2015-01-06 23:20:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by george152
Post by r***@libertarianz.org.nz
Post by Enkidu
It's pretty sick to demand a means test before people are given anything.
Cheers,
Cliff
Why, Cliff? Wouldn't that better determine who really needs the help?
Now you're being logical. Liebor hate logic.
You'll be off their christmas list
It's a 'red' herring George.

Pooh
george152
2015-01-07 03:56:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pooh
Post by george152
Post by r***@libertarianz.org.nz
Post by Enkidu
It's pretty sick to demand a means test before people are given anything.
Cheers,
Cliff
Why, Cliff? Wouldn't that better determine who really needs the help?
Now you're being logical. Liebor hate logic.
You'll be off their christmas list
It's a 'red' herring George.
Could be one that has been 'lying' in the sun for some days
Enkidu
2015-01-07 09:08:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pooh
Post by george152
Post by r***@libertarianz.org.nz
Post by Enkidu
It's pretty sick to demand a means test before people are given anything.
Cheers,
Cliff
Why, Cliff? Wouldn't that better determine who really needs the help?
Now you're being logical. Liebor hate logic.
You'll be off their christmas list
It's a 'red' herring George.
Richard's question demonstrates a lack of knowledge of what happens when
a person requests a benefit.

Cheers,

Cliff
Pooh
2015-01-07 12:15:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pooh
Post by george152
Post by r***@libertarianz.org.nz
Post by Enkidu
It's pretty sick to demand a means test before people are given anything.
Cheers,
Cliff
Why, Cliff? Wouldn't that better determine who really needs the help?
Now you're being logical. Liebor hate logic.
You'll be off their christmas list
It's a 'red' herring George.
Richard's question demonstrates a lack of knowledge of what happens when a
person requests a benefit.
Cheers,
Cliff
Richard's question reflects what a growing number of New Zealanders are
asking these days Cliff.

Pooh
Enkidu
2015-01-07 23:03:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pooh
Post by Enkidu
Post by Pooh
Post by r***@libertarianz.org.nz
Post by Enkidu
It's pretty sick to demand a means test before people are
given anything.
Cheers,
Cliff
Why, Cliff? Wouldn't that better determine who really needs the help?
Now you're being logical. Liebor hate logic. You'll be off
their christmas list
It's a 'red' herring George.
Richard's question demonstrates a lack of knowledge of what happens
when a person requests a benefit.
Richard's question reflects what a growing number of New Zealanders
are asking these days Cliff.
Yes. It demonstrates how dumb a growing number of New Zealanders is. The
fact is that you can't just walk into a WINZ office and demand a
benefit. And the fact is that if you are on a benefit you can expect to
be watched and checked on all the time.

Cheers,

Cliff
Pooh
2015-01-08 03:49:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Enkidu
Post by Pooh
Post by Enkidu
Post by Pooh
Post by r***@libertarianz.org.nz
Post by Enkidu
It's pretty sick to demand a means test before people are given anything.
Cheers,
Cliff
Why, Cliff? Wouldn't that better determine who really needs the help?
Now you're being logical. Liebor hate logic. You'll be off
their christmas list
It's a 'red' herring George.
Richard's question demonstrates a lack of knowledge of what happens
when a person requests a benefit.
Richard's question reflects what a growing number of New Zealanders
are asking these days Cliff.
Yes. It demonstrates how dumb a growing number of New Zealanders is. The
fact is that you can't just walk into a WINZ office and demand a benefit.
And the fact is that if you are on a benefit you can expect to be watched
and checked on all the time.
Cheers,
Cliff
That's been the case with benefits since at least 1999 in my experience
Cliff. Many of the 'new' criteria have been around since then. Dickies
attacks at Nationals clamp down ignore the fact that Labour carried out a
similar crackdown during their term.

Pooh
Enkidu
2015-01-08 05:22:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pooh
Post by Enkidu
Post by Pooh
Post by Enkidu
Post by Pooh
Post by r***@libertarianz.org.nz
Post by Enkidu
It's pretty sick to demand a means test before people are given anything.
Cheers,
Cliff
Why, Cliff? Wouldn't that better determine who really needs the help?
Now you're being logical. Liebor hate logic. You'll be off
their christmas list
It's a 'red' herring George.
Richard's question demonstrates a lack of knowledge of what happens
when a person requests a benefit.
Richard's question reflects what a growing number of New Zealanders
are asking these days Cliff.
Yes. It demonstrates how dumb a growing number of New Zealanders is. The
fact is that you can't just walk into a WINZ office and demand a benefit.
And the fact is that if you are on a benefit you can expect to be watched
and checked on all the time.
That's been the case with benefits since at least 1999 in my experience
Cliff. Many of the 'new' criteria have been around since then. Dickies
attacks at Nationals clamp down ignore the fact that Labour carried out a
similar crackdown during their term.
Demanding a means test is not a crackdown. It's bonkers and
counterproductive. Also it's ticket check. Once you have gone through
it, you are entitled or you aren't. Unless you are expecting every
beneficiary to be means tested every year or something. Imagine the
bureaucracy that that would generate!

Cheers,

Cliff
geopelia
2015-01-07 23:20:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pooh
Post by george152
Post by r***@libertarianz.org.nz
Post by Enkidu
It's pretty sick to demand a means test before people are given anything.
Cheers,
Cliff
Why, Cliff? Wouldn't that better determine who really needs the help?
Now you're being logical. Liebor hate logic.
You'll be off their christmas list
It's a 'red' herring George.
Richard's question demonstrates a lack of knowledge of what happens when a
person requests a benefit.
Cheers,
Cliff
Richard's question reflects what a growing number of New Zealanders are
asking these days Cliff.

Pooh
............

There is an enormous amount of paperwork needed before getting a sickness
benefit.
They always want to see some paper that you haven't got with you.

Then the benefit is suddenly stopped.
They say it is a computer error, and after a while it is paid, with the
arrears.
Then it happens again. And again.
Fine, if you have a few savings to tide you over, but what of those with no
means at all?

But once their doctor sees you, and you are put permanently on the invalid's
benefit, their whole attitude changes.
And once you are on the pension, all is well.

I suppose that is government policy.
It's hard on the sick person, and it must be embarrassing for the staff who
have to carry it out.

I pity any sick person without a mate or friend to fight for them.
Rich80105
2015-01-07 19:53:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Enkidu
Post by Pooh
Post by george152
Post by r***@libertarianz.org.nz
Post by Enkidu
It's pretty sick to demand a means test before people are given anything.
Cheers,
Cliff
Why, Cliff? Wouldn't that better determine who really needs the help?
Now you're being logical. Liebor hate logic.
You'll be off their christmas list
It's a 'red' herring George.
Richard's question demonstrates a lack of knowledge of what happens when
a person requests a benefit.
Cheers,
Cliff
I dont think we are quite at this level yet, but 'some think this is
the "Right"way to ïncentivise"beneficiaries to find jobs:
http://dwpunspun.org.uk/sanctions
Liberty
2015-01-04 04:30:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Enkidu
Post by JohnO
Post by victor
Post by JohnO
So victor thinks it's all ok for goods donated for the needy to
be distributed to non needy lazy bludgers.
Nice.
The article is comment bait for bigots
Just stop giving free food out.
The pubs don't give free beer.
Post by Enkidu
Post by JohnO
So... victor can't dispute anything in an article, but doesn't like
it, so just dismisses it.
That's how the thicker end of the left wing spectrum rolls, folks.
How can you tell the needy from the non-needy?
Cheers,
Cliff
victor
2015-01-04 05:26:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Liberty
Post by victor
Post by JohnO
So victor thinks it's all ok for goods donated for the needy to
be distributed to non needy lazy bludgers.
Nice.
The article is comment bait for bigots
Just stop giving free food out.
The pubs don't give free beer.
You can slink away when its your round.
Its voluntary.
Patrick FitzGerald
2015-01-04 05:27:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Liberty
The pubs don't give free beer.
But the Libertarians give their greed.
Rich80105
2015-01-04 10:11:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Liberty
Post by Enkidu
Post by JohnO
Post by victor
Post by JohnO
So victor thinks it's all ok for goods donated for the needy to
be distributed to non needy lazy bludgers.
Nice.
The article is comment bait for bigots
Just stop giving free food out.
The pubs don't give free beer.
Educate yourself:
http://www.nzonscreen.com/title/in-a-land-of-plenty-2002
Post by Liberty
Post by Enkidu
Post by JohnO
So... victor can't dispute anything in an article, but doesn't like
it, so just dismisses it.
That's how the thicker end of the left wing spectrum rolls, folks.
How can you tell the needy from the non-needy?
Cheers,
Cliff
Liberty
2015-01-04 10:25:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
Post by Liberty
Post by Enkidu
Post by JohnO
Post by victor
Post by JohnO
So victor thinks it's all ok for goods donated for the needy to
be distributed to non needy lazy bludgers.
Nice.
The article is comment bait for bigots
Just stop giving free food out.
The pubs don't give free beer.
http://www.nzonscreen.com/title/in-a-land-of-plenty-2002
Post by Liberty
Post by Enkidu
Post by JohnO
So... victor can't dispute anything in an article, but doesn't like
it, so just dismisses it.
That's how the thicker end of the left wing spectrum rolls, folks.
How can you tell the needy from the non-needy?
Cheers,
Cliff
Fuck off you condescending little prick.
Enkidu
2015-01-04 21:55:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Liberty
Post by Rich80105
Post by Liberty
Post by victor
Post by JohnO
So victor thinks it's all ok for goods donated for the needy to
be distributed to non needy lazy bludgers.
Nice.
The article is comment bait for bigots
Just stop giving free food out.
The pubs don't give free beer.
http://www.nzonscreen.com/title/in-a-land-of-plenty-2002
Fuck off you condescending little prick.
You don't like the film?

Cheers,

Cliff
Pooh
2015-01-04 22:14:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Enkidu
Post by Liberty
Post by Rich80105
Post by Liberty
Post by victor
Post by JohnO
So victor thinks it's all ok for goods donated for the needy to
be distributed to non needy lazy bludgers.
Nice.
The article is comment bait for bigots
Just stop giving free food out.
The pubs don't give free beer.
http://www.nzonscreen.com/title/in-a-land-of-plenty-2002
Fuck off you condescending little prick.
You don't like the film?
Cheers,
Cliff
Considering Dickheads past record Lib probably thinks it's just another
propaganda piece from unions Cliff. I found it interesting that both
National AND Liebor don't look good in it. Guess these days it's more about
party power than caring for the people of New Zealand.

Pooh

Pooh
Liberty
2015-01-05 00:11:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Enkidu
Post by Liberty
Post by Rich80105
Post by Liberty
Post by victor
Post by JohnO
So victor thinks it's all ok for goods donated for the needy to
be distributed to non needy lazy bludgers.
Nice.
The article is comment bait for bigots
Just stop giving free food out.
The pubs don't give free beer.
http://www.nzonscreen.com/title/in-a-land-of-plenty-2002
Fuck off you condescending little prick.
You don't like the film?
Cheers,
Cliff
The film might have been quite interesting to watch . If I had been asked to watch.
I do suspect the film would be mostly lefty piffle.
But I don't take orders from some pompous Git doing a very bad impersonation
of Dooley.
victor
2015-01-04 22:52:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
Post by Liberty
Post by victor
Post by JohnO
So victor thinks it's all ok for goods donated for the needy to
be distributed to non needy lazy bludgers.
Nice.
The article is comment bait for bigots
Just stop giving free food out.
The pubs don't give free beer.
http://www.nzonscreen.com/title/in-a-land-of-plenty-2002
http://ahistoryofthefuture.org/the-half-life-of-skill/

The Half-Life of Skill
2024, Earth
Fast-food chefs. Drivers. Supermarket checkout attendants. Bookshop
managers. Street cleaners. Call centre operators. Teaching assistants.
Bookkeepers. Pilots. Soldiers. Lab technicians. Publishing executives.
Warehouse fulfilment workers. Fishermen. Farmers. Copywriters. Couriers.
Assembly-line workers. Actors. Bank tellers. Financial traders. Parking
attendants. Personal trainers.

The value of a skill decays over time. Some skills have a half-life
measured in decades, such as automobile repair or secretarial work.
Others are highly unstable, such as the custodians of mayfly
technologies such as Betamax. A few skills may last for centuries or
millennia, such as politics or writing or hunting or acting, but even
those are not immune. Time, chance, technology, and artificial
intelligence affect all skills.

There is a limit to the speed at which normal humans can learn new
abilities, and if what they choose has too brief a half-life, even the
fastest learners can fall permanently behind.

That was the way of the 21st century; a wave of machine-powered creative
destruction engulfing the human-powered economy, machines that didn't
just magnify human productivity but replaced human thought. Entire
tracts of society found their skills literally worthless within the
space of a decade. The resulting reduction in costs saw individual
productivity rocket — for those individuals who still had jobs.

Why should we continue to work so hard, Bertrand Russell asked, with
such productivity? Why can't we spare time to luxuriate in our wealth?
It was "only a foolish asceticism, usually vicarious, [that] makes us
continue to insist on work in excess quantities now that the need no
longer exists". He continued, "There is no reason to go on being foolish
forever."

Unfortunately, a century was not quite long enough for us to grow out of
our foolishness — or to put it a little more charitably, the virtues of
hard work that made so much sense for so many millennia are not so
easily abandoned. Idleness and relaxation were to be punished; only work
could make you valuable.

This archaic view survived well into the 21st century, propped up by the
resentment of the privileged who were forced to successively compete
against women, ethnic minorities, gays, lesbians, the transgendered,
young, old, atheists, and countless others for the jobs and wealth that
they had believed were their birthright. Even as the jobs dwindled and
wealth was sucked past the event horizon of the plutocracy, those who
preached the gospel of competition and the so-called free market
couldn’t imagine an alternative, so they taught us that we should have
loyalty to no company, no city, no country, no community, no-one. Only
to the 'brand of me'.

A competition needs winners, and for every winner, there must be losers.

Few professions were immune; not even 'creatives' or the highly
technically educated, those anointed classes of the turn of the century.
By the 20s and 30s, a massive oversupply in programmers, fed by
shortsighted education policies in the teens, caused wages to plummet.
And with the low-hanging fruit of the digital transition now thoroughly
picked clean, profits had become shrunken and more concentrated.

Millions of computer-science graduates wondered what had happened to the
promises of a safe career as they replicated and automated their way
through the economy. Anything they produced that was remotely original
was copied within weeks or months. It was hard to stay ahead of the
curve, but a few individuals and corporations managed it, insulated by
thick layers of capital and connections. Others, such as the amplified
teams and the hive minds, were so fast they looked like they were
cheating. These winners were unaccountable, transnational,
transplanetary. Hard to understand. Hardly human.

But even they weren't invulnerable, their fear belied by their desperate
grip on the last vestiges of an unfree market. They wielded patents,
copyrights, monopolies, planned obsolescence, addiction, locked-in
ecosystems, regulatory capture, advertising, and lobbying; they guzzled
social contributions such as open-source software and crowdsourcing and
incoming personal data and gave nothing back other than
free-if-you-don’t-look-closely services. Anything to maintain their
position in a vanishing 'capitalist' system. It worked too well, for too
long.

The fall came from within. Median wages stagnated as automation took its
toll and margins were squeezed tight. With fewer people earning money,
who was left to buy what the machines were making? How many servants and
entertainers could even a billionaire employ? And then there were the
burgeoning non-profit and mutualised services, organisations that made
everything and required zero return to shareholders. They could operate
leaner than the best — but they only benefitted a select group of the
most organised. It was a slow fall, but it didn’t stop for a century.

The basic minimum income, funded by a wealth tax, was first introduced
in Northern European countries in the 20s, decoupling living standards,
health, and wellbeing from the need to find an increasingly scarce job.
In halts and starts, it spread through the rest of Europe, South
America, and parts of Asia in the following decades. It was not a
panacea; China still had to deal with its massive environmental damage,
Japan walked farther down its path to becoming a empty, haunted
fortress, Europe struggled with maintaining democracy.

Yet there was reason for optimism. The cost of labour had dropped, but
so had the cost of capital. A billion companies bloomed. Desire
modification, co-ops, free digital entertainment, open-sourced designs,
reduced patent lengths, the coming Long Congress — they all reshaped the
world, over and over again, faster and faster.

The march towards the basic minimum income seems inevitable. It was not.
Political and economic power had become fragmented and chaotic,
spiralling out of centralised control. The admirably and infuriatingly
cautious grand old tradition of representative democracy was crashing
straight into the newborn speed-of-thought digital democracy. Both
challenged the other's legitimacy. Both were needed to enact change.

Yet they shared the same ideals: that we are all equal before the law,
and that, as humans, we all have rights.

That if jobs can't be found, we shouldn't go begging.

That there is virtue in working less and flourishing more — pursuing
what makes us humans, not automatons.

That productivity is a solved problem, but wellbeing is not.

The half-life of tradition is long. The half-life of empathy is even
longer. A culture that values toil over all does not die overnight, even
when faced with suffering. But it does change, atom by atom, person by
person — through the hard work of campaigners who believe in a better world.

Utopia is not a place. It is a process of unending struggle, hard fought
and hard earned, to make a more perfect world.
Enkidu
2015-01-04 21:53:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Liberty
Post by victor
Post by JohnO
So victor thinks it's all ok for goods donated for the needy to
be distributed to non needy lazy bludgers.
Nice.
The article is comment bait for bigots
Just stop giving free food out.
The pubs don't give free beer.
The pubs aren't charities

Cheers,

Cliff
Liberty
2015-01-05 00:15:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Enkidu
Post by Liberty
Post by victor
Post by JohnO
So victor thinks it's all ok for goods donated for the needy to
be distributed to non needy lazy bludgers.
Nice.
The article is comment bait for bigots
Just stop giving free food out.
The pubs don't give free beer.
The pubs aren't charities
Cheers,
Cliff
Why should they be a charity?
Enkidu
2015-01-05 07:48:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Liberty
Post by Enkidu
Post by Liberty
Post by victor
Post by JohnO
So victor thinks it's all ok for goods donated for the needy to
be distributed to non needy lazy bludgers.
Nice.
The article is comment bait for bigots
Just stop giving free food out.
The pubs don't give free beer.
The pubs aren't charities
Why should they be a charity?
Charities give out free food. JohnO said that they shouldn't because
pubs don't give out free beer.

Cheers,

Cliff
george152
2015-01-07 19:15:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Enkidu
Charities give out free food. JohnO said that they shouldn't because
pubs don't give out free beer.
However they used to give out counter lunches to the drinkers
Pooh
2015-01-04 22:11:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by JohnO
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/64406798/kids-to-go-without-christmas-mum-says
Add that to the bludge tourists driving up from Hamilton to get a free
Xmas party on the city mission...
Bludgers are making life very difficult for the genuinely needy.
I'm still wondering if Dickhead and the boy wonder Victor are ever going to
come up with a definition of poverty that isn't a direct quote from their
political heros.

Pooh
Enkidu
2015-01-05 07:38:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pooh
Post by JohnO
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/64406798/kids-to-go-without-christmas-mum-says
Add that to the bludge tourists driving up from Hamilton to get a free
Post by Pooh
Post by JohnO
Xmas party on the city mission...
Bludgers are making life very difficult for the genuinely needy.
I'm still wondering if Dickhead and the boy wonder Victor are ever
going to come up with a definition of poverty that isn't a direct
quote from their political heros.
A definition of poverty? Why not set up a commission to decide on a
definition for it? I'm not going to attempt a definition, but some of
the high points are: Poverty is related to employment. Employment is
related to education. Education is related to poverty in that if a child
is hungry they have difficulty in learning. Another observation is that
as education increases so does income and also education relates
inversely to family size. Not everyone who is educated is able to find a
job. There is a mismatch between skills required and the skills that
people have. While this may be addressed by targetted courses and so on,
such targetting is rarely more than marginally effective. So employment
will never be 100% and there will always be unfilled jobs. While it is
reasonably easy for the affluent to move to find a job, it can be almost
impossible for the poor. Providing an incentive to move rarely works and
almost certainly will attract the less than honest.

Cheers,

Cliff
Pooh
2015-01-05 08:21:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by JohnO
Post by Pooh
Post by JohnO
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/64406798/kids-to-go-without-christmas-mum-says
Add that to the bludge tourists driving up from Hamilton to get a free
Post by Pooh
Post by JohnO
Xmas party on the city mission...
Bludgers are making life very difficult for the genuinely needy.
I'm still wondering if Dickhead and the boy wonder Victor are ever
going to come up with a definition of poverty that isn't a direct
quote from their political heros.
A definition of poverty? Why not set up a commission to decide on a
definition for it? I'm not going to attempt a definition, but some of the
high points are: Poverty is related to employment. Employment is related
to education. Education is related to poverty in that if a child is hungry
they have difficulty in learning. Another observation is that as education
increases so does income and also education relates inversely to family
size. Not everyone who is educated is able to find a job. There is a
mismatch between skills required and the skills that people have. While
this may be addressed by targetted courses and so on, such targetting is
rarely more than marginally effective. So employment will never be 100%
and there will always be unfilled jobs. While it is reasonably easy for
the affluent to move to find a job, it can be almost impossible for the
poor. Providing an incentive to move rarely works and almost certainly
will attract the less than honest.
Cheers,
Cliff
Cliff. I didn't ask for a definition from you. You're not a prat like
Dickhead and Victor the boy wonder. I asked these two muppets this question
prior to Xmas in another thread and the pair of them thundered back under
their bridges faster than a Labour leader changing policy.

As to setting up a commission what a total waste of time commissions are
they seldom provide answers or even coherent explanations for things.

The bleat about the poor and poverty are just political yoyos with no real
answers that everyone can agree on. As to doing a web search for
explanations (which Victor the crumb posted) you get a vaste range of things
that define poverty including having iPhones and high speed internet access!
Which came from the coalition of losers that calls itself the United
Nations.

Pooh
Enkidu
2015-01-05 22:08:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pooh
Cliff. I didn't ask for a definition from you. You're not a prat
like Dickhead and Victor the boy wonder. I asked these two muppets
this question prior to Xmas in another thread and the pair of them
thundered back under their bridges faster than a Labour leader
changing policy.
As to setting up a commission what a total waste of time commissions
are they seldom provide answers or even coherent explanations for
things.
That was a joke Pooh. It's the knee jerk reaction of corporate entities
like National to set up a commission.
Post by Pooh
The bleat about the poor and poverty are just political yoyos with no
real answers that everyone can agree on. As to doing a web search
for explanations (which Victor the crumb posted) you get a vaste
range of things that define poverty including having iPhones and high
speed internet access! Which came from the coalition of losers that
calls itself the United Nations.
While the line is probably drawn too high if it includes iPhones and so
on, poverty is societally oriented. If for example, a kid goes to school
and the school teaches using BYODs, and the kid does not have one
because his family can't afford to buy him one, then the kid is by all
practical definitions poor, and is unlikely to be able to amount to
anything in his future life. However in many cases the poverty is more
basic than that - clothes, food, accommodation may be unobtainable for
the kid's family.

Incidentally, you won't find Government papers on poverty in New Zealand
because they don't measure it. All surveys of poverty in New Zealand
come from outside the Government, which makes it easy for the Government
to dismiss them. If the Government did sponsor one, it would be
interesting to see the results.

Cheers,

Cliff
george152
2015-01-05 22:33:13 UTC
Permalink
I see the police are still in denial about what causes accidents and
choose to patrol motorways in their flash cars.
They know where the black spots are, there's a crop of sad little
crosses marking those spots.
They'd rather collect revenue
Zombie One
2015-01-09 03:06:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by JohnO
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/64406798/kids-to-go-without-christmas-mum-says
Add that to the bludge tourists driving up from Hamilton to get a
free Xmas party on the city mission...
Bludgers are making life very difficult for the genuinely needy.
Why bother when they could stay in Wellington?

Zombie One
Continue reading on narkive:
Loading...