Discussion:
Useful information about EVs
(too old to reply)
Tony
2021-07-13 02:35:24 UTC
Permalink
Yes I know this is not America
https://www.zerohedge.com/technology/its-time-unplug-hype-over-electric-vehicles
But some of this applies here, we haven't got a plan to find the electricity
our current objectives will need.
John Bowes
2021-07-13 06:48:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony
Yes I know this is not America
https://www.zerohedge.com/technology/its-time-unplug-hype-over-electric-vehicles
But some of this applies here, we haven't got a plan to find the electricity
our current objectives will need.
Do they have plans or infrastructure to dispose of the batteries from the cars when they're no longer usable? From what i've seen all that is being done is encouraging people to buy the damn things :)
Tony
2021-07-13 07:42:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Bowes
Post by Tony
Yes I know this is not America
https://www.zerohedge.com/technology/its-time-unplug-hype-over-electric-vehicles
But some of this applies here, we haven't got a plan to find the electricity
our current objectives will need.
Do they have plans or infrastructure to dispose of the batteries from the cars
when they're no longer usable? From what i've seen all that is being done is
encouraging people to buy the damn things :)
No-one has John.
The industry and the governments do not care, for different reasons.
John Bowes
2021-07-13 09:45:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony
Post by John Bowes
Post by Tony
Yes I know this is not America
https://www.zerohedge.com/technology/its-time-unplug-hype-over-electric-vehicles
But some of this applies here, we haven't got a plan to find the electricity
our current objectives will need.
Do they have plans or infrastructure to dispose of the batteries from the cars
when they're no longer usable? From what i've seen all that is being done is
encouraging people to buy the damn things :)
No-one has John.
The industry and the governments do not care, for different reasons.
About all you can expect from this government. They're incapable of understanding that both action and inaction have consequences and it's not them but the country that suffers! :(
George Black
2021-07-13 20:16:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony
Yes I know this is not America
https://www.zerohedge.com/technology/its-time-unplug-hype-over-electric-vehicles
But some of this applies here, we haven't got a plan to find the electricity
our current objectives will need.
The fully electric toys do around 200 km or so.
Are they going to have fast recharging stations every 190 km ????
With all the transmission lines that would involve..
As well as the ability to generate sufficient power to run such a system
Mutlley
2021-07-13 20:52:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by George Black
Post by Tony
Yes I know this is not America
https://www.zerohedge.com/technology/its-time-unplug-hype-over-electric-vehicles
But some of this applies here, we haven't got a plan to find the electricity
our current objectives will need.
The fully electric toys do around 200 km or so.
Are they going to have fast recharging stations every 190 km ????
With all the transmission lines that would involve..
As well as the ability to generate sufficient power to run such a system
The cheap MG and some of the better second hand leafs do about that
but the expensive ones that people can't afford do 400 Km plus.
Tony
2021-07-13 20:55:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by George Black
Post by Tony
Yes I know this is not America
https://www.zerohedge.com/technology/its-time-unplug-hype-over-electric-vehicles
But some of this applies here, we haven't got a plan to find the electricity
our current objectives will need.
The fully electric toys do around 200 km or so.
Are they going to have fast recharging stations every 190 km ????
With all the transmission lines that would involve..
As well as the ability to generate sufficient power to run such a system
George the latest fully electric EVs do nearly 500km however everything else
you have written is exactly correct. There is no plan other than a hope and a
prayer, and it is not necessary anyway.
George Black
2021-07-13 23:00:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony
Post by George Black
Post by Tony
Yes I know this is not America
https://www.zerohedge.com/technology/its-time-unplug-hype-over-electric-vehicles
But some of this applies here, we haven't got a plan to find the electricity
our current objectives will need.
The fully electric toys do around 200 km or so.
Are they going to have fast recharging stations every 190 km ????
With all the transmission lines that would involve..
As well as the ability to generate sufficient power to run such a system
George the latest fully electric EVs do nearly 500km however everything else
you have written is exactly correct. There is no plan other than a hope and a
prayer, and it is not necessary anyway.
After the toys been running for a year then look at the range.
Battery powered drills were all the rage on building sites.
Seen the multiboards with all those chargers going 24/7 ??????
Tony
2021-07-14 00:54:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by George Black
Post by Tony
Post by George Black
Post by Tony
Yes I know this is not America
https://www.zerohedge.com/technology/its-time-unplug-hype-over-electric-vehicles
But some of this applies here, we haven't got a plan to find the electricity
our current objectives will need.
The fully electric toys do around 200 km or so.
Are they going to have fast recharging stations every 190 km ????
With all the transmission lines that would involve..
As well as the ability to generate sufficient power to run such a system
George the latest fully electric EVs do nearly 500km however everything else
you have written is exactly correct. There is no plan other than a hope and a
prayer, and it is not necessary anyway.
After the toys been running for a year then look at the range.
Battery powered drills were all the rage on building sites.
Seen the multiboards with all those chargers going 24/7 ??????
The range will definitely deteriorate over time, not sure how quickly but a
rule of thumb is that replacement will be necessary in 200,000 miles (maximum)
in some cases less than 100,000. Cost will be at least
$5,000 and up to $15,000 plus labour. How to dispose of all of those batteries
at the end of their life has yet to be decided. Even if they can be used in
houses for a while the hiighly toxic lithium will need to be removed, re-used
or dumped. It's a very expensive toy. This is a policy or hope without a plan
and for no compelling reason.
Rich80105
2021-07-14 04:09:45 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 13 Jul 2021 19:54:13 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by George Black
Post by Tony
Post by George Black
Post by Tony
Yes I know this is not America
https://www.zerohedge.com/technology/its-time-unplug-hype-over-electric-vehicles
But some of this applies here, we haven't got a plan to find the electricity
our current objectives will need.
The fully electric toys do around 200 km or so.
Are they going to have fast recharging stations every 190 km ????
With all the transmission lines that would involve..
As well as the ability to generate sufficient power to run such a system
George the latest fully electric EVs do nearly 500km however everything else
you have written is exactly correct. There is no plan other than a hope and a
prayer, and it is not necessary anyway.
After the toys been running for a year then look at the range.
Battery powered drills were all the rage on building sites.
Seen the multiboards with all those chargers going 24/7 ??????
The range will definitely deteriorate over time, not sure how quickly but a
rule of thumb is that replacement will be necessary in 200,000 miles (maximum)
in some cases less than 100,000. Cost will be at least
$5,000 and up to $15,000 plus labour. How to dispose of all of those batteries
at the end of their life has yet to be decided. Even if they can be used in
houses for a while the hiighly toxic lithium will need to be removed, re-used
or dumped. It's a very expensive toy. This is a policy or hope without a plan
and for no compelling reason.
International agreements and penalties for not achieving agreed
targets are seen as a sufficient reason by most people; the hopee is
clearly that we will by working together create a better world. Is
that a foreign concept to you, Tony?
Tony
2021-07-14 04:20:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Tue, 13 Jul 2021 19:54:13 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by George Black
Post by Tony
Post by George Black
Post by Tony
Yes I know this is not America
https://www.zerohedge.com/technology/its-time-unplug-hype-over-electric-vehicles
But some of this applies here, we haven't got a plan to find the electricity
our current objectives will need.
The fully electric toys do around 200 km or so.
Are they going to have fast recharging stations every 190 km ????
With all the transmission lines that would involve..
As well as the ability to generate sufficient power to run such a system
George the latest fully electric EVs do nearly 500km however everything else
you have written is exactly correct. There is no plan other than a hope and a
prayer, and it is not necessary anyway.
After the toys been running for a year then look at the range.
Battery powered drills were all the rage on building sites.
Seen the multiboards with all those chargers going 24/7 ??????
The range will definitely deteriorate over time, not sure how quickly but a
rule of thumb is that replacement will be necessary in 200,000 miles (maximum)
in some cases less than 100,000. Cost will be at least
$5,000 and up to $15,000 plus labour. How to dispose of all of those batteries
at the end of their life has yet to be decided. Even if they can be used in
houses for a while the hiighly toxic lithium will need to be removed, re-used
or dumped. It's a very expensive toy. This is a policy or hope without a plan
and for no compelling reason.
International agreements and penalties for not achieving agreed
targets are seen as a sufficient reason by most people; the hopee is
clearly that we will by working together create a better world. Is
that a foreign concept to you, Tony?
No, but it is to you. That is never your intention, always driven by politics
is what you are, always - therefore zero integrity.
International agreements are irrelevant when the world changes and you know
that is true.
John Bowes
2021-07-14 05:57:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Tue, 13 Jul 2021 19:54:13 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by George Black
Post by Tony
Post by George Black
Post by Tony
Yes I know this is not America
https://www.zerohedge.com/technology/its-time-unplug-hype-over-electric-vehicles
But some of this applies here, we haven't got a plan to find the electricity
our current objectives will need.
The fully electric toys do around 200 km or so.
Are they going to have fast recharging stations every 190 km ????
With all the transmission lines that would involve..
As well as the ability to generate sufficient power to run such a system
George the latest fully electric EVs do nearly 500km however everything else
you have written is exactly correct. There is no plan other than a hope and a
prayer, and it is not necessary anyway.
After the toys been running for a year then look at the range.
Battery powered drills were all the rage on building sites.
Seen the multiboards with all those chargers going 24/7 ??????
The range will definitely deteriorate over time, not sure how quickly but a
rule of thumb is that replacement will be necessary in 200,000 miles (maximum)
in some cases less than 100,000. Cost will be at least
$5,000 and up to $15,000 plus labour. How to dispose of all of those batteries
at the end of their life has yet to be decided. Even if they can be used in
houses for a while the hiighly toxic lithium will need to be removed, re-used
or dumped. It's a very expensive toy. This is a policy or hope without a plan
and for no compelling reason.
International agreements and penalties for not achieving agreed
targets are seen as a sufficient reason by most people; the hopee is
clearly that we will by working together create a better world. Is
that a foreign concept to you, Tony?
What garbage! WE need to be able to dispose of the batteries safely. not ship them to some third world nation where they'll only be stockpiled and create a bigger hazard. Remember how we dealt with our plastic recycling till India, china and several other nations cried enough and refused to accept any more containers of our trash? You seen any guarantees from government (though those won't be believed by most) we won't hand the problem over to another nation to fix?
Rich80105
2021-07-14 04:07:47 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 13 Jul 2021 15:55:05 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by George Black
Post by Tony
Yes I know this is not America
https://www.zerohedge.com/technology/its-time-unplug-hype-over-electric-vehicles
But some of this applies here, we haven't got a plan to find the electricity
our current objectives will need.
The fully electric toys do around 200 km or so.
Are they going to have fast recharging stations every 190 km ????
With all the transmission lines that would involve..
As well as the ability to generate sufficient power to run such a system
George the latest fully electric EVs do nearly 500km however everything else
you have written is exactly correct. There is no plan other than a hope and a
prayer, and it is not necessary anyway.
I would not expect you to have a plan, Tony, but there has been
considerable activity by both government and local authorities, who
have erected a number of charging statations, and that number is
projected to increase as demand suggests it is needed. I understand
that it is now possible to travel the length of SH1 and find charging
stations within a reasonable distance of each other - sufficient so
that a relatively new electric vehicle should be sufficient. Clearly
there are plans which have resulted in those installations being
arranged, and they will affect plans by individuals where relevant to
purchase electric (rather than hybrid or petrol or diesel) vehicles.
As far as I am aware the opposition political parties have no plans
either - would you expect them to?
Tony
2021-07-14 04:25:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Tue, 13 Jul 2021 15:55:05 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by George Black
Post by Tony
Yes I know this is not America
https://www.zerohedge.com/technology/its-time-unplug-hype-over-electric-vehicles
But some of this applies here, we haven't got a plan to find the electricity
our current objectives will need.
The fully electric toys do around 200 km or so.
Are they going to have fast recharging stations every 190 km ????
With all the transmission lines that would involve..
As well as the ability to generate sufficient power to run such a system
George the latest fully electric EVs do nearly 500km however everything else
you have written is exactly correct. There is no plan other than a hope and a
prayer, and it is not necessary anyway.
Offensive words removed.
Post by Rich80105
there has been
considerable activity by both government and local authorities, who
have erected a number of charging statations, and that number is
projected to increase as demand suggests it is needed. I understand
that it is now possible to travel the length of SH1 and find charging
stations within a reasonable distance of each other - sufficient so
that a relatively new electric vehicle should be sufficient. Clearly
there are plans which have resulted in those installations being
arranged, and they will affect plans by individuals where relevant to
purchase electric (rather than hybrid or petrol or diesel) vehicles.
As far as I am aware the opposition political parties have no plans
either - would you expect them to?
The opposition is as irrelevant as you. This is nothing to do with politics,
except for you of course.
Read what has gone before.
There is no plan to deliver enough electricity to fuel all of the electric
vehicles that the government wants, there is no plan to handle the toxic waste
from old batteries.
There is no plan at all - read and weep you are a rude old man. You could
actually debate if you avoided the gross over-use of sarcasm but it is now
ingrained - right?
Rich80105
2021-07-14 05:10:00 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 13 Jul 2021 23:25:15 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Tue, 13 Jul 2021 15:55:05 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by George Black
Post by Tony
Yes I know this is not America
https://www.zerohedge.com/technology/its-time-unplug-hype-over-electric-vehicles
But some of this applies here, we haven't got a plan to find the electricity
our current objectives will need.
The fully electric toys do around 200 km or so.
Are they going to have fast recharging stations every 190 km ????
With all the transmission lines that would involve..
As well as the ability to generate sufficient power to run such a system
George the latest fully electric EVs do nearly 500km however everything else
you have written is exactly correct. There is no plan other than a hope and a
prayer, and it is not necessary anyway.
Offensive words removed.
I had said "I would not expect you to have a plan, Tony, but there has
been considerable activity . . ."
Your claim that there is no plan other than a hope and a prayer
appears to be critical of someone, but your statement that "it" is not
necessary anyway is somewhat contradictory. I sought to reassure you
Tony that I did not expect you , or indeed any other individual, to
have a plan to provide charging stations.

What on earth did you find offensive about your not needing a plan?

As I pointed out there has been progress on such matters led by
government and local authorities, arising from their plans, but for
individuals you are correct that there is no need. We have a
competitive eletricity generation industry, with advantages over some
countries in having the ability to use water, geothemal, and wind
poert as well as in exceptional circumstances burning material such a
coal. Do you not believe that the competitive electricity market will
be able to provide for electricity needs, Tony? I can assure you that
they do have plans to stay in business and to be profitable; but
perhaps you are arguing for some form of control by central
government?
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
there has been
considerable activity by both government and local authorities, who
have erected a number of charging statations, and that number is
projected to increase as demand suggests it is needed. I understand
that it is now possible to travel the length of SH1 and find charging
stations within a reasonable distance of each other - sufficient so
that a relatively new electric vehicle should be sufficient. Clearly
there are plans which have resulted in those installations being
arranged, and they will affect plans by individuals where relevant to
purchase electric (rather than hybrid or petrol or diesel) vehicles.
As far as I am aware the opposition political parties have no plans
either - would you expect them to?
The opposition is as irrelevant as you. This is nothing to do with politics,
except for you of course.
So why the bleating about a lack of plans?
The opposition are there to point out alternatives to government
action or inaction; they are normally as relevant as the government in
the sense of offering alternative views where relevant. Or are you
saying that on this issue there is no difference between the views of
ACT/National and Labour / Green, so therefore no need for them to even
talk about the issue you raised?
Post by Tony
Read what has gone before.
There is no plan to deliver enough electricity to fuel all of the electric
vehicles that the government wants,
I have demonstrated that central and local government have already
responded and are still working on charging stations - where is your
evidence of no plan to deliver enough electricity to fuel all of the
electric vehicles that New Zealanders want?
Post by Tony
there is no plan to handle the toxic waste
from old batteries.
There is no plan at all - read and weep you are a rude old man. You could
actually debate if you avoided the gross over-use of sarcasm but it is now
ingrained - right?
Tony
2021-07-14 05:29:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Tue, 13 Jul 2021 23:25:15 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Tue, 13 Jul 2021 15:55:05 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by George Black
Post by Tony
Yes I know this is not America
https://www.zerohedge.com/technology/its-time-unplug-hype-over-electric-vehicles
But some of this applies here, we haven't got a plan to find the electricity
our current objectives will need.
The fully electric toys do around 200 km or so.
Are they going to have fast recharging stations every 190 km ????
With all the transmission lines that would involve..
As well as the ability to generate sufficient power to run such a system
George the latest fully electric EVs do nearly 500km however everything else
you have written is exactly correct. There is no plan other than a hope and a
prayer, and it is not necessary anyway.
Offensive words removed.
I had said "I would not expect you to have a plan, Tony, but there has
been considerable activity . . ."
Your claim that there is no plan other than a hope and a prayer
appears to be critical of someone, but your statement that "it" is not
necessary anyway is somewhat contradictory. I sought to reassure you
Tony that I did not expect you , or indeed any other individual, to
have a plan to provide charging stations.
You can play with words all day long but that changes nothing,
You were rude and dliberately so.
There is no government plan to provide the electricity necessary, do please
prove me wrong - but you can't.
What is not necessary would be obvious to anybody but you, it contradicts
nothing - fact is - there is no reason to go down this path to EVs without a
plan.
Post by Rich80105
What on earth did you find offensive about your not needing a plan?
As I pointed out there has been progress on such matters led by
government and local authorities, arising from their plans, but for
individuals you are correct that there is no need. We have a
competitive eletricity generation industry, with advantages over some
countries in having the ability to use water, geothemal, and wind
poert as well as in exceptional circumstances burning material such a
coal. Do you not believe that the competitive electricity market will
be able to provide for electricity needs, Tony?
They will not be able to do it. There is no plan - does that ring a bell? It
should!
Post by Rich80105
I can assure you that
they do have plans to stay in business and to be profitable; but
perhaps you are arguing for some form of control by central
government?
The plan is the responsibility of the government, where is it, what is it, who
is responsible, do you know?
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
there has been
considerable activity by both government and local authorities, who
have erected a number of charging statations, and that number is
projected to increase as demand suggests it is needed. I understand
that it is now possible to travel the length of SH1 and find charging
stations within a reasonable distance of each other - sufficient so
that a relatively new electric vehicle should be sufficient. Clearly
there are plans which have resulted in those installations being
arranged, and they will affect plans by individuals where relevant to
purchase electric (rather than hybrid or petrol or diesel) vehicles.
As far as I am aware the opposition political parties have no plans
either - would you expect them to?
The opposition is as irrelevant as you. This is nothing to do with politics,
except for you of course.
So why the bleating about a lack of plans?
What does that mean, oh I see - you deliberately failed to understand what I
wrote, again.
Post by Rich80105
The opposition are there to point out alternatives to government
action or inaction; they are normally as relevant as the government in
the sense of offering alternative views where relevant.
No the government has a huge majority, they are entirely responsible, don't you
understand how our system works?
Post by Rich80105
Or are you
saying that on this issue there is no difference between the views of
ACT/National and Labour / Green, so therefore no need for them to even
talk about the issue you raised?
What an idiotic question, do grow up.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Read what has gone before.
There is no plan to deliver enough electricity to fuel all of the electric
vehicles that the government wants,
I have demonstrated that central and local government have already
responded
No you have not, tell us where the plan is.
Post by Rich80105
and are still working on charging stations - where is your
evidence of no plan to deliver enough electricity to fuel all of the
electric vehicles that New Zealanders want?
You are responsible for showing the plan, I cannot prove a non-existent plan is
non-existent any more than you can point to a plan.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
there is no plan to handle the toxic waste
from old batteries.
There is no plan at all - read and weep you are a rude old man. You could
actually debate if you avoided the gross over-use of sarcasm but it is now
ingrained - right?
Tony
2021-07-15 03:09:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Tue, 13 Jul 2021 23:25:15 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Tue, 13 Jul 2021 15:55:05 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by George Black
Post by Tony
Yes I know this is not America
https://www.zerohedge.com/technology/its-time-unplug-hype-over-electric-vehicles
But some of this applies here, we haven't got a plan to find the electricity
our current objectives will need.
The fully electric toys do around 200 km or so.
Are they going to have fast recharging stations every 190 km ????
With all the transmission lines that would involve..
As well as the ability to generate sufficient power to run such a system
George the latest fully electric EVs do nearly 500km however everything else
you have written is exactly correct. There is no plan other than a hope
and
a
prayer, and it is not necessary anyway.
Offensive words removed.
I had said "I would not expect you to have a plan, Tony, but there has
been considerable activity . . ."
Your claim that there is no plan other than a hope and a prayer
appears to be critical of someone, but your statement that "it" is not
necessary anyway is somewhat contradictory. I sought to reassure you
Tony that I did not expect you , or indeed any other individual, to
have a plan to provide charging stations.
You can play with words all day long but that changes nothing,
You were rude and dliberately so.
There is no government plan to provide the electricity necessary, do please
prove me wrong - but you can't.
What is not necessary would be obvious to anybody but you, it contradicts
nothing - fact is - there is no reason to go down this path to EVs without a
plan.
Post by Rich80105
What on earth did you find offensive about your not needing a plan?
As I pointed out there has been progress on such matters led by
government and local authorities, arising from their plans, but for
individuals you are correct that there is no need. We have a
competitive eletricity generation industry, with advantages over some
countries in having the ability to use water, geothemal, and wind
poert as well as in exceptional circumstances burning material such a
coal. Do you not believe that the competitive electricity market will
be able to provide for electricity needs, Tony?
They will not be able to do it. There is no plan - does that ring a bell? It
should!
Post by Rich80105
I can assure you that
they do have plans to stay in business and to be profitable; but
perhaps you are arguing for some form of control by central
government?
The plan is the responsibility of the government, where is it, what is it, who
is responsible, do you know?
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
there has been
considerable activity by both government and local authorities, who
have erected a number of charging statations, and that number is
projected to increase as demand suggests it is needed. I understand
that it is now possible to travel the length of SH1 and find charging
stations within a reasonable distance of each other - sufficient so
that a relatively new electric vehicle should be sufficient. Clearly
there are plans which have resulted in those installations being
arranged, and they will affect plans by individuals where relevant to
purchase electric (rather than hybrid or petrol or diesel) vehicles.
As far as I am aware the opposition political parties have no plans
either - would you expect them to?
The opposition is as irrelevant as you. This is nothing to do with politics,
except for you of course.
So why the bleating about a lack of plans?
What does that mean, oh I see - you deliberately failed to understand what I
wrote, again.
Post by Rich80105
The opposition are there to point out alternatives to government
action or inaction; they are normally as relevant as the government in
the sense of offering alternative views where relevant.
No the government has a huge majority, they are entirely responsible, don't you
understand how our system works?
Post by Rich80105
Or are you
saying that on this issue there is no difference between the views of
ACT/National and Labour / Green, so therefore no need for them to even
talk about the issue you raised?
What an idiotic question, do grow up.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Read what has gone before.
There is no plan to deliver enough electricity to fuel all of the electric
vehicles that the government wants,
I have demonstrated that central and local government have already
responded
No you have not, tell us where the plan is.
Post by Rich80105
and are still working on charging stations - where is your
evidence of no plan to deliver enough electricity to fuel all of the
electric vehicles that New Zealanders want?
You are responsible for showing the plan, I cannot prove a non-existent plan is
non-existent any more than you can point to a plan.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
there is no plan to handle the toxic waste
from old batteries.
There is no plan at all - read and weep you are a rude old man. You could
actually debate if you avoided the gross over-use of sarcasm but it is now
ingrained - right?
Another scurrying into his little hole by our beloved Rich80105.
Government is responsoble for a plan to fuel EVs, not industry. There is no
plan, there is therefore no validity in the rush to EVs, Q.E.D.

Gordon
2021-07-14 09:29:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
As I pointed out there has been progress on such matters led by
government and local authorities, arising from their plans, but for
individuals you are correct that there is no need. We have a
competitive eletricity generation industry, with advantages over some
countries in having the ability to use water, geothemal, and wind
poert as well as in exceptional circumstances burning material such a
coal. Do you not believe that the competitive electricity market will
be able to provide for electricity needs, Tony? I can assure you that
they do have plans to stay in business and to be profitable; but
perhaps you are arguing for some form of control by central
government?
Rich, New Zealand does not have heaps of spare power generation, now that
the Bluff smelter is still online.

Thermal power stations, coal burning ones, are used for base loads as it
takes time for them to "warm up", and there output can not be changed
quickly. So Huntly is burning day and night, every day.

https://www.transpower.co.nz/power-system-live-data

Feel free to show me and yourself, when the coal amount of power generated
is zero.

A hydro station can change its out put quickly, just open up the valves a
bit, or close them down.
Crash
2021-07-14 04:41:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Tue, 13 Jul 2021 15:55:05 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by George Black
Post by Tony
Yes I know this is not America
https://www.zerohedge.com/technology/its-time-unplug-hype-over-electric-vehicles
But some of this applies here, we haven't got a plan to find the electricity
our current objectives will need.
The fully electric toys do around 200 km or so.
Are they going to have fast recharging stations every 190 km ????
With all the transmission lines that would involve..
As well as the ability to generate sufficient power to run such a system
George the latest fully electric EVs do nearly 500km however everything else
you have written is exactly correct. There is no plan other than a hope and a
prayer, and it is not necessary anyway.
I would not expect you to have a plan, Tony,
What an idiotic comment Rich80105.
Post by Rich80105
but there has been
considerable activity by both government and local authorities, who
have erected a number of charging statations, and that number is
projected to increase as demand suggests it is needed. I understand
that it is now possible to travel the length of SH1 and find charging
stations within a reasonable distance of each other - sufficient so
that a relatively new electric vehicle should be sufficient. Clearly
there are plans which have resulted in those installations being
arranged, and they will affect plans by individuals where relevant to
purchase electric (rather than hybrid or petrol or diesel) vehicles.
That is not a plan but an ad-hoc stage-1 achievement. You can have
all the recharging stations you like but the only ones that are useful
are the ones with electricity supply available. We have electricity
supply problems now with the Huntley thermal station permanently
online. Ignore the thrust of this article but note the coal
consumption numbers along with the type of coal and where it comes
from:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/opinion-analysis/125151189/budgets-carbon-savings-equal-about-five-days-coal-use-at-huntly

We simply do not have enough electricity from environmentally-clean
sources now, let alone to fuel cars in the future.
Post by Rich80105
As far as I am aware the opposition political parties have no plans
either - would you expect them to?
The opposition have not created the problem - the Labour Governments
since 2017 have, particularly with incentives to kill off ICE cars and
substitute EVs with no planning for the increased E supply needed nor
the disposal of EV batteries.

Rich80105 would you prefer the 'opposition political parties' to come
to the aid of the Government on this?


--
Crash McBash
John Bowes
2021-07-14 06:05:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
On Tue, 13 Jul 2021 15:55:05 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by George Black
Post by Tony
Yes I know this is not America
https://www.zerohedge.com/technology/its-time-unplug-hype-over-electric-vehicles
But some of this applies here, we haven't got a plan to find the electricity
our current objectives will need.
The fully electric toys do around 200 km or so.
Are they going to have fast recharging stations every 190 km ????
With all the transmission lines that would involve..
As well as the ability to generate sufficient power to run such a system
George the latest fully electric EVs do nearly 500km however everything else
you have written is exactly correct. There is no plan other than a hope and a
prayer, and it is not necessary anyway.
I would not expect you to have a plan, Tony,
What an idiotic comment Rich80105.
Post by Rich80105
but there has been
considerable activity by both government and local authorities, who
have erected a number of charging statations, and that number is
projected to increase as demand suggests it is needed. I understand
that it is now possible to travel the length of SH1 and find charging
stations within a reasonable distance of each other - sufficient so
that a relatively new electric vehicle should be sufficient. Clearly
there are plans which have resulted in those installations being
arranged, and they will affect plans by individuals where relevant to
purchase electric (rather than hybrid or petrol or diesel) vehicles.
That is not a plan but an ad-hoc stage-1 achievement. You can have
all the recharging stations you like but the only ones that are useful
are the ones with electricity supply available. We have electricity
supply problems now with the Huntley thermal station permanently
online. Ignore the thrust of this article but note the coal
consumption numbers along with the type of coal and where it comes
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/opinion-analysis/125151189/budgets-carbon-savings-equal-about-five-days-coal-use-at-huntly
We simply do not have enough electricity from environmentally-clean
sources now, let alone to fuel cars in the future.
We imported over a million tonnes of coal last year. Low grade coal from Indonesia!
https://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/climate-news/300356959/new-zealand-imported-more-than-a-million-tonnes-of-dirty-coal-last-year
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
As far as I am aware the opposition political parties have no plans
either - would you expect them to?
The opposition have not created the problem - the Labour Governments
since 2017 have, particularly with incentives to kill off ICE cars and
substitute EVs with no planning for the increased E supply needed nor
the disposal of EV batteries.
Rich80105 would you prefer the 'opposition political parties' to come
to the aid of the Government on this?
--
Crash McBash
Gordon
2021-07-14 09:14:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
On Tue, 13 Jul 2021 15:55:05 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by George Black
Post by Tony
Yes I know this is not America
https://www.zerohedge.com/technology/its-time-unplug-hype-over-electric-vehicles
But some of this applies here, we haven't got a plan to find the electricity
our current objectives will need.
The fully electric toys do around 200 km or so.
Are they going to have fast recharging stations every 190 km ????
With all the transmission lines that would involve..
As well as the ability to generate sufficient power to run such a system
George the latest fully electric EVs do nearly 500km however everything else
you have written is exactly correct. There is no plan other than a hope and a
prayer, and it is not necessary anyway.
I would not expect you to have a plan, Tony,
What an idiotic comment Rich80105.
Post by Rich80105
but there has been
considerable activity by both government and local authorities, who
have erected a number of charging statations, and that number is
projected to increase as demand suggests it is needed. I understand
that it is now possible to travel the length of SH1 and find charging
stations within a reasonable distance of each other - sufficient so
that a relatively new electric vehicle should be sufficient. Clearly
there are plans which have resulted in those installations being
arranged, and they will affect plans by individuals where relevant to
purchase electric (rather than hybrid or petrol or diesel) vehicles.
That is not a plan but an ad-hoc stage-1 achievement. You can have
all the recharging stations you like but the only ones that are useful
are the ones with electricity supply available. We have electricity
supply problems now with the Huntley thermal station permanently
online. Ignore the thrust of this article but note the coal
consumption numbers along with the type of coal and where it comes
To nit pick, its not an electricty supply problem but rather that the way in
which 18-25% of the countries power is generated.
Post by Crash
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/opinion-analysis/125151189/budgets-carbon-savings-equal-about-five-days-coal-use-at-huntly
We simply do not have enough electricity from environmentally-clean
sources now, let alone to fuel cars in the future.
Nor do we have the grid capacity to match.
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
As far as I am aware the opposition political parties have no plans
either - would you expect them to?
The opposition have not created the problem - the Labour Governments
since 2017 have, particularly with incentives to kill off ICE cars and
substitute EVs with no planning for the increased E supply needed nor
the disposal of EV batteries.
Rich80105 would you prefer the 'opposition political parties' to come
to the aid of the Government on this?
Well, it would be nice if they could. At present we are headed into the
price of power going up as fast as house prices, with blackouts and brown
outs becomming the norm in the extrme cases.

I am glad that someothers see that the maths does not work out.
John Bowes
2021-07-14 05:53:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Tue, 13 Jul 2021 15:55:05 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by George Black
Post by Tony
Yes I know this is not America
https://www.zerohedge.com/technology/its-time-unplug-hype-over-electric-vehicles
But some of this applies here, we haven't got a plan to find the electricity
our current objectives will need.
The fully electric toys do around 200 km or so.
Are they going to have fast recharging stations every 190 km ????
With all the transmission lines that would involve..
As well as the ability to generate sufficient power to run such a system
George the latest fully electric EVs do nearly 500km however everything else
you have written is exactly correct. There is no plan other than a hope and a
prayer, and it is not necessary anyway.
I would not expect you to have a plan, Tony, but there has been
considerable activity by both government and local authorities, who
have erected a number of charging statations, and that number is
projected to increase as demand suggests it is needed. I understand
that it is now possible to travel the length of SH1 and find charging
stations within a reasonable distance of each other - sufficient so
that a relatively new electric vehicle should be sufficient. Clearly
there are plans which have resulted in those installations being
arranged, and they will affect plans by individuals where relevant to
purchase electric (rather than hybrid or petrol or diesel) vehicles.
As far as I am aware the opposition political parties have no plans
either - would you expect them to?
Tony would have a plan Rich. The lot you worship will talk it up and that's as far as it'll go!
Gordon
2021-07-14 04:19:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony
Post by George Black
Post by Tony
Yes I know this is not America
https://www.zerohedge.com/technology/its-time-unplug-hype-over-electric-vehicles
But some of this applies here, we haven't got a plan to find the electricity
our current objectives will need.
The fully electric toys do around 200 km or so.
Are they going to have fast recharging stations every 190 km ????
With all the transmission lines that would involve..
As well as the ability to generate sufficient power to run such a system
George the latest fully electric EVs do nearly 500km however everything else
you have written is exactly correct. There is no plan other than a hope and a
prayer, and it is not necessary anyway.
Now let us go back to the good old days when cars were advertised as doing
72 mpg or some other high figure. That was on a good day, down hill,
light load, and tail wind.

Then we had emissions from VW, and probably others, all good until John
December actually went for a ride in one with the emission recording gear in
the back in the real world test.

Now we have electric cars. The BMW i3 claims 220km for charge. Once again I
would like to see witness a real world test. Also after ten years what is
the range.

EV suffer in the cold. Battery does not like it, heater takes power from
battery.

So the quoted figures are the very best one will get.

Quick chargers mean heavy distrubition lines and everyone plugging in to
charge up at peak power times are going over loading the existing network.
Tony
2021-07-14 04:51:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gordon
Post by Tony
Post by George Black
Post by Tony
Yes I know this is not America
https://www.zerohedge.com/technology/its-time-unplug-hype-over-electric-vehicles
But some of this applies here, we haven't got a plan to find the electricity
our current objectives will need.
The fully electric toys do around 200 km or so.
Are they going to have fast recharging stations every 190 km ????
With all the transmission lines that would involve..
As well as the ability to generate sufficient power to run such a system
George the latest fully electric EVs do nearly 500km however everything else
you have written is exactly correct. There is no plan other than a hope and a
prayer, and it is not necessary anyway.
Now let us go back to the good old days when cars were advertised as doing
72 mpg or some other high figure. That was on a good day, down hill,
light load, and tail wind.
Then we had emissions from VW, and probably others, all good until John
December actually went for a ride in one with the emission recording gear in
the back in the real world test.
Now we have electric cars. The BMW i3 claims 220km for charge. Once again I
would like to see witness a real world test. Also after ten years what is
the range.
EV suffer in the cold. Battery does not like it, heater takes power from
battery.
So the quoted figures are the very best one will get.
As usual with most products offered to us.
Post by Gordon
Quick chargers mean heavy distrubition lines and everyone plugging in to
charge up at peak power times are going over loading the existing network.
And quick chargers are not exactly what most batteries like.
But essentially you are saying what I wrote, there is no plan.
George Black
2021-07-14 20:14:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gordon
Post by Tony
Post by George Black
Post by Tony
Yes I know this is not America
https://www.zerohedge.com/technology/its-time-unplug-hype-over-electric-vehicles
But some of this applies here, we haven't got a plan to find the electricity
our current objectives will need.
The fully electric toys do around 200 km or so.
Are they going to have fast recharging stations every 190 km ????
With all the transmission lines that would involve..
As well as the ability to generate sufficient power to run such a system
George the latest fully electric EVs do nearly 500km however everything else
you have written is exactly correct. There is no plan other than a hope and a
prayer, and it is not necessary anyway.
Now let us go back to the good old days when cars were advertised as doing
72 mpg or some other high figure. That was on a good day, down hill,
light load, and tail wind.
Then we had emissions from VW, and probably others, all good until John
December actually went for a ride in one with the emission recording gear in
the back in the real world test.
Now we have electric cars. The BMW i3 claims 220km for charge. Once again I
would like to see witness a real world test. Also after ten years what is
the range.
EV suffer in the cold. Battery does not like it, heater takes power from
battery.
So the quoted figures are the very best one will get.
Quick chargers mean heavy distrubition lines and everyone plugging in to
charge up at peak power times are going over loading the existing network.
\
Yup..
But it doesn't matter to the greens 'cause they CARE
BR
2021-07-14 05:47:09 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 13 Jul 2021 15:55:05 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by George Black
Post by Tony
Yes I know this is not America
https://www.zerohedge.com/technology/its-time-unplug-hype-over-electric-vehicles
But some of this applies here, we haven't got a plan to find the electricity
our current objectives will need.
The fully electric toys do around 200 km or so.
Are they going to have fast recharging stations every 190 km ????
With all the transmission lines that would involve..
As well as the ability to generate sufficient power to run such a system
George the latest fully electric EVs do nearly 500km however everything else
you have written is exactly correct. There is no plan other than a hope and a
prayer, and it is not necessary anyway.
How far do they go at night time in sub-zero temperatures?

Bill.
--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com
Tony
2021-07-14 06:27:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Tue, 13 Jul 2021 15:55:05 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by George Black
Post by Tony
Yes I know this is not America
https://www.zerohedge.com/technology/its-time-unplug-hype-over-electric-vehicles
But some of this applies here, we haven't got a plan to find the electricity
our current objectives will need.
The fully electric toys do around 200 km or so.
Are they going to have fast recharging stations every 190 km ????
With all the transmission lines that would involve..
As well as the ability to generate sufficient power to run such a system
George the latest fully electric EVs do nearly 500km however everything else
you have written is exactly correct. There is no plan other than a hope and a
prayer, and it is not necessary anyway.
How far do they go at night time in sub-zero temperatures?
Bill.
Around the corner.
No, sorry I don't know but the technology is far from perfected.
Post by Rich80105
--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com
Rich80105
2021-07-14 03:36:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by George Black
Post by Tony
Yes I know this is not America
https://www.zerohedge.com/technology/its-time-unplug-hype-over-electric-vehicles
But some of this applies here, we haven't got a plan to find the electricity
our current objectives will need.
The fully electric toys do around 200 km or so.
Are they going to have fast recharging stations every 190 km ????
With all the transmission lines that would involve..
As well as the ability to generate sufficient power to run such a system
See:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/evs/124395353/lowest-to-highest-every-new-electric-car-you-can-buy-in-nz-in-2021
For new cars at least, average distance before recharging is required
is higher than 200 km. Many people travel less than 50km a day for
commuter trips, and seldom travel more than 100 km.

I suspect those who regularly travel longer distances will prefer a
hybrid vehicle - the Toyota Prius is possibly the most common taxi
these days. I expect range to increase over time, but it will also
take time to phase out current petrol driven vehicles, and yes the
government and local councils are installing more charging stations;
we can expect these to increase.
John Bowes
2021-07-14 05:51:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
Post by George Black
Post by Tony
Yes I know this is not America
https://www.zerohedge.com/technology/its-time-unplug-hype-over-electric-vehicles
But some of this applies here, we haven't got a plan to find the electricity
our current objectives will need.
The fully electric toys do around 200 km or so.
Are they going to have fast recharging stations every 190 km ????
With all the transmission lines that would involve..
As well as the ability to generate sufficient power to run such a system
https://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/evs/124395353/lowest-to-highest-every-new-electric-car-you-can-buy-in-nz-in-2021
For new cars at least, average distance before recharging is required
is higher than 200 km. Many people travel less than 50km a day for
commuter trips, and seldom travel more than 100 km.
How about many businesses that require cars not just for commuting. Taxi are a good example. 200 k is a bad day for them. The same would go for estate agents/landlords. Though this government looks like it's out to kill the realestate business...
Post by Rich80105
I suspect those who regularly travel longer distances will prefer a
hybrid vehicle - the Toyota Prius is possibly the most common taxi
these days. I expect range to increase over time, but it will also
take time to phase out current petrol driven vehicles, and yes the
government and local councils are installing more charging stations;
we can expect these to increase.
But where is the power for them coming from Rich? You can't rely on wind and solar! It'll ned one possibly two new power stations, hydro, geothermal or tidal are the viable options but not a whisper from the government about creating more generation sites.
John Bowes
2021-07-14 20:50:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Bowes
Post by Rich80105
Post by George Black
Post by Tony
Yes I know this is not America
https://www.zerohedge.com/technology/its-time-unplug-hype-over-electric-vehicles
But some of this applies here, we haven't got a plan to find the electricity
our current objectives will need.
The fully electric toys do around 200 km or so.
Are they going to have fast recharging stations every 190 km ????
With all the transmission lines that would involve..
As well as the ability to generate sufficient power to run such a system
https://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/evs/124395353/lowest-to-highest-every-new-electric-car-you-can-buy-in-nz-in-2021
For new cars at least, average distance before recharging is required
is higher than 200 km. Many people travel less than 50km a day for
commuter trips, and seldom travel more than 100 km.
How about many businesses that require cars not just for commuting. Taxi are a good example. 200 k is a bad day for them. The same would go for estate agents/landlords. Though this government looks like it's out to kill the realestate business...
Post by Rich80105
I suspect those who regularly travel longer distances will prefer a
hybrid vehicle - the Toyota Prius is possibly the most common taxi
these days. I expect range to increase over time, but it will also
take time to phase out current petrol driven vehicles, and yes the
government and local councils are installing more charging stations;
we can expect these to increase.
But where is the power for them coming from Rich? You can't rely on wind and solar! It'll ned one possibly two new power stations, hydro, geothermal or tidal are the viable options but not a whisper from the government about creating more generation sites.
We need nukes. At least two for the North Island and one for the south
so the greenies can run their electric cars
A couple of geothermal plants in Auckland and a third on the volcanic plateau would help.
Willy Nilly
2021-07-13 21:41:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony
https://www.zerohedge.com/technology/its-time-unplug-hype-over-electric-vehicles
But some of this applies here, we haven't got a plan to find the electricity
our current objectives will need.
Current government is on the warpath against natural gas and coal,
that'll help the electricity supplies eh? BTW, you can see the
national electricity grid in action at:

https://www.transpower.co.nz/power-system-live-data
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