Discussion:
Flat earthers beware
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Tony
2021-04-16 03:19:08 UTC
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Permalink
http://themostimportantnews.com/we-are-now-entering-full-blown-tyranny-in-the-western-world/
Conspiracy theory or no there is some truth in this.
Our government rushed new gun laws, as soon as it had an excuse to do so.
I do not own a gun and I returned my licence some years ago so I have no "axe
to grind".
James Christophers
2021-04-16 04:09:08 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Tony
http://themostimportantnews.com/we-are-now-entering-full-blown-tyranny-in-the-western-world/
Conspiracy theory or no there is some truth in this.
Our government rushed new gun laws, as soon as it had an excuse to do so.
I do not own a gun and I returned my licence some years ago so I have no "axe
to grind".
Freedom is good.

But, in a universal sense, what happens when the means and ways of enjoying that freedom grow, develop and become so diverse that in the end one man's freedom too often becomes another man's oppression, not by dint of any purposeful or even malign intent but through the manner in which a particular "innocent" freedom cannot help imposing itself on the unsuspecting recipient?

Example: noise.
Tony
2021-04-16 04:32:43 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
http://themostimportantnews.com/we-are-now-entering-full-blown-tyranny-in-the-western-world/
Conspiracy theory or no there is some truth in this.
Our government rushed new gun laws, as soon as it had an excuse to do so.
I do not own a gun and I returned my licence some years ago so I have no "axe
to grind".
Freedom is good.
But, in a universal sense, what happens when the means and ways of enjoying
that freedom grow, develop and become so diverse that in the end one man's
freedom too often becomes another man's oppression, not by dint of any
purposeful or even malign intent but through the manner in which a particular
"innocent" freedom cannot help imposing itself on the unsuspecting recipient?
Example: noise.
It's about balance, obviously.
James Christophers
2021-04-16 23:25:39 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
http://themostimportantnews.com/we-are-now-entering-full-blown-tyranny-in-the-western-world/
Conspiracy theory or no there is some truth in this.
Our government rushed new gun laws, as soon as it had an excuse to do so.
I do not own a gun and I returned my licence some years ago so I have no "axe
to grind".
Freedom is good.
But, in a universal sense, what happens when the means and ways of enjoying
that freedom grow, develop and become so diverse that in the end one man's
freedom too often becomes another man's oppression, not by dint of any
purposeful or even malign intent but through the manner in which a particular
"innocent" freedom cannot help imposing itself on the unsuspecting recipient?
Example: noise.
It's about balance, obviously.
We are in a rapidly changing world where burgeoning freedom-based choices and the protective decision-making that goes with them have never been more complex or numerous.

As for guns and the legislation surrounding them (the nub of your proposition) their legitimate numbers, types, and the kind of people using them are whatever the nation at large may tolerate and is prepared to legislate for.

So it is not just about "balance" and that's that, but rather about the essential interdependence between law-making and consensus in a scenario that, in this case, involves the use of actual and potential lethal force. A tough call for any administration - damned if you do, damned if you don't.

I wonder what Crash thinks?
Tony
2021-04-17 00:23:00 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by Tony
http://themostimportantnews.com/we-are-now-entering-full-blown-tyranny-in-the-western-world/
Conspiracy theory or no there is some truth in this.
Our government rushed new gun laws, as soon as it had an excuse to do so.
I do not own a gun and I returned my licence some years ago so I have no "axe
to grind".
Freedom is good.
But, in a universal sense, what happens when the means and ways of enjoying
that freedom grow, develop and become so diverse that in the end one man's
freedom too often becomes another man's oppression, not by dint of any
purposeful or even malign intent but through the manner in which a particular
"innocent" freedom cannot help imposing itself on the unsuspecting recipient?
Example: noise.
It's about balance, obviously.
We are in a rapidly changing world where burgeoning freedom-based choices and
the protective decision-making that goes with them have never been more complex
or numerous.
As for guns and the legislation surrounding them (the nub of your proposition)
their legitimate numbers, types, and the kind of people using them are whatever
the nation at large may tolerate and is prepared to legislate for.
So it is not just about "balance" and that's that, but rather about the
essential interdependence between law-making and consensus in a scenario that,
in this case, involves the use of actual and potential lethal force. A tough
call for any administration - damned if you do, damned if you don't.
I wonder what Crash thinks?
I did not say or imply "and that's that". It is about balance, regardless of
how difficult it is, and that is why we elect people to work for us.
James Christophers
2021-04-17 01:45:58 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by Tony
http://themostimportantnews.com/we-are-now-entering-full-blown-tyranny-in-the-western-world/
Conspiracy theory or no there is some truth in this.
Our government rushed new gun laws, as soon as it had an excuse to do so.
I do not own a gun and I returned my licence some years ago so I have no "axe
to grind".
Freedom is good.
But, in a universal sense, what happens when the means and ways of enjoying
that freedom grow, develop and become so diverse that in the end one man's
freedom too often becomes another man's oppression, not by dint of any
purposeful or even malign intent but through the manner in which a particular
"innocent" freedom cannot help imposing itself on the unsuspecting recipient?
Example: noise.
It's about balance, obviously.
We are in a rapidly changing world where burgeoning freedom-based choices and
the protective decision-making that goes with them have never been more complex
or numerous.
As for guns and the legislation surrounding them (the nub of your proposition)
their legitimate numbers, types, and the kind of people using them are whatever
the nation at large may tolerate and is prepared to legislate for.
So it is not just about "balance" and that's that, but rather about the
essential interdependence between law-making and consensus in a scenario that,
in this case, involves the use of actual and potential lethal force. A tough
call for any administration - damned if you do, damned if you don't.
I wonder what Crash thinks?
I did not say or imply "and that's that".
Since your response is open to interpretation I have simply offered something towards further expanding and developing the topic, hoping Crash can also provide some input.

Again, in any legislating, a government's responsibility is to deliver just and equitable resolutions. Even so, gun control and related legislation are some of the most intractable and emotively loaded of all to get right. However close any government gets to achieving its aim, the spontaneous, random incident will always be with us for as long as guns are in the possession of individuals, no matter that individual or his purpose. In which case, that devoutly to be wished "perfect" resolution must remain beyond reach.
Rich80105
2021-04-16 04:48:50 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Thu, 15 Apr 2021 22:19:08 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
http://themostimportantnews.com/we-are-now-entering-full-blown-tyranny-in-the-western-world/
Conspiracy theory or no there is some truth in this.
Even for Canada it is pushing it. From
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1107079/covid19-deaths-by-province-territory-canada/
"Ontario and Quebec have been the most severely affected. COVID-19
continues to pose a serious health threat to Canadians, but there have
been positive signs since the start of 2021, with the number of daily
new cases falling considerably." The differences in infection rates
by province are significant.

Far from "Orwellian", responses to Covid in most countries have been
less restrictive than ideal, and those imposed have often been lifted
too early.

From https://edmontonjournal.com/news/local-news/gracelife-tick-tock
"GraceLife is the ultimate COVID-19 scofflaw, or a paragon of
religious liberty, depending who you ask. The church continued to hold
over-capacity indoor services throughout COVID’s second wave, despite
surging infections and multiple public health orders mandating limits
on in-person worship. Pastor James Coates spent 35 days in remand for
repeatedly refusing to abide by the rules."

We know from New Zealand experience that gathering such as those of
churches can be particularly risky in relation to spreading Covid-19 -
this appears to be wilful flouting of laws rather than tyranny from
the Ontario Government
Post by Tony
Our government rushed new gun laws, as soon as it had an excuse to do so.
I do not own a gun and I returned my licence some years ago so I have no "axe
to grind".
Our new gun laws were not a response to Covid, but to the Christchurch
shootings. Stronger gun laws have been discussed in New Zealand for a
long time, but particularly since the Howard Federal Government
implemented changes in 1996 - starting 12 days after the Tasmanian
shooting - see https://injuryprevention.bmj.com/content/12/6/365

New Zealand had been considering changes ever since, but the
Christchurch shooings on 15 March 2019 led to an initial stage of law
changes on 15 April - see
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_law_in_New_Zealand#Arms_Amendment_Bills_2_and_3_(1999_to_2012)

These were in line with previous proposals, and were passed by 119
votes to 1 - this was not tyranny, but a logical first step following
extensive previous discussions, and a mood from all except one MP to
see something done quickly. Only a small minority argued for delay in
passing that first stage of legislation.

As far as Covid is concerned, the New Zealand approach of going hard
and fast, or 'putting lives first', has seen New Zealand not only
experience lower infection rates than most countries, but also lower
economic damage than many other countries - we now have the luxury of
not having to rush a vaccination programme; even if the alarm in the
referenced article about the efficacy of vaccines is true, we are able
to make choices without needing to combat community infections through
vaccination.

So indeed flat -earthers should beware, and acquant themselves with a
few facts before seeing tyrrany in the western world, or here in New
Zealand, through an incident that demonstrates the danger of
non-compliance with reasonable covid infection prevention precautions.
The danger is not from government, but from extremists who do not
accept reasonable laws . . .
James Christophers
2021-04-16 05:33:20 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 15 Apr 2021 22:19:08 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
http://themostimportantnews.com/we-are-now-entering-full-blown-tyranny-in-the-western-world/
Conspiracy theory or no there is some truth in this.
Even for Canada it is pushing it. From
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1107079/covid19-deaths-by-province-territory-canada/
"Ontario and Quebec have been the most severely affected. COVID-19
continues to pose a serious health threat to Canadians, but there have
been positive signs since the start of 2021, with the number of daily
new cases falling considerably." The differences in infection rates
by province are significant.
Far from "Orwellian", responses to Covid in most countries have been
less restrictive than ideal, and those imposed have often been lifted
too early.
From https://edmontonjournal.com/news/local-news/gracelife-tick-tock
"GraceLife is the ultimate COVID-19 scofflaw, or a paragon of
religious liberty, depending who you ask. The church continued to hold
over-capacity indoor services throughout COVID’s second wave, despite
surging infections and multiple public health orders mandating limits
on in-person worship. Pastor James Coates spent 35 days in remand for
repeatedly refusing to abide by the rules."
We know from New Zealand experience that gathering such as those of
churches can be particularly risky in relation to spreading Covid-19 -
this appears to be wilful flouting of laws rather than tyranny from
the Ontario Government
Post by Tony
Our government rushed new gun laws, as soon as it had an excuse to do so.
I do not own a gun and I returned my licence some years ago so I have no "axe
to grind".
Our new gun laws were not a response to Covid, but to the Christchurch
shootings. Stronger gun laws have been discussed in New Zealand for a
long time, but particularly since the Howard Federal Government
implemented changes in 1996 - starting 12 days after the Tasmanian
shooting - see https://injuryprevention.bmj.com/content/12/6/365
New Zealand had been considering changes ever since, but the
Christchurch shooings on 15 March 2019 led to an initial stage of law
changes on 15 April - see
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_law_in_New_Zealand#Arms_Amendment_Bills_2_and_3_(1999_to_2012)
These were in line with previous proposals, and were passed by 119
votes to 1 - this was not tyranny, but a logical first step following
extensive previous discussions, and a mood from all except one MP to
see something done quickly. Only a small minority argued for delay in
passing that first stage of legislation.
As far as Covid is concerned, the New Zealand approach of going hard
and fast, or 'putting lives first', has seen New Zealand not only
experience lower infection rates than most countries, but also lower
economic damage than many other countries - we now have the luxury of
not having to rush a vaccination programme; even if the alarm in the
referenced article about the efficacy of vaccines is true, we are able
to make choices without needing to combat community infections through
vaccination.
So indeed flat -earthers should beware, and acquant themselves with a
few facts before seeing tyrrany in the western world, or here in New
Zealand, through an incident that demonstrates the danger of
non-compliance with reasonable covid infection prevention precautions.
The danger is not from government, but from extremists who do not
accept reasonable laws . . .
The government's prime responsibility is to protect every one of its citizens from harm. It does this through the exercising of its legislation.

Reasonable, effective law is about the consensus implicit in compliance. Even then, it is not the law itself that offends the outlier. What exercises them most of all is the fear of being discovered wantonly - not accidentally or inadvertently - in breach of it, plus the possible expense, shaming and even the curtailment of liberty that may ensue.

In turn, it is the wanton factor (degree of) that most exercises the lawmakers, enforcers and judiciary. Hence the complexities inherent in any honest rhetoric, argument, legislation and, ultimately, judgemental decisions bound up in the original legislation.

Only too glad someone else is doing all that for me!
George Black
2021-04-16 20:04:02 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Tony
http://themostimportantnews.com/we-are-now-entering-full-blown-tyranny-in-the-western-world/
Conspiracy theory or no there is some truth in this.
Our government rushed new gun laws, as soon as it had an excuse to do so.
I do not own a gun and I returned my licence some years ago so I have no "axe
to grind".
-
With the current rash of shootings I'm wondering where those weapons
came from since all the illegal weapons were handed in by every-one
after the Christchurch shootings...

And no-one would dream of crossing Cindy
Tony
2021-04-16 20:42:51 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by George Black
Post by Tony
http://themostimportantnews.com/we-are-now-entering-full-blown-tyranny-in-the-western-world/
Conspiracy theory or no there is some truth in this.
Our government rushed new gun laws, as soon as it had an excuse to do so.
I do not own a gun and I returned my licence some years ago so I have no "axe
to grind".
-
With the current rash of shootings I'm wondering where those weapons
came from since all the illegal weapons were handed in by every-one
after the Christchurch shootings...
And no-one would dream of crossing Cindy
The weapons thing is a symptom and the article clearly identifies the
opportunity that many have taken to push their agendas.
Rich80105
2021-04-16 21:10:51 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Fri, 16 Apr 2021 15:42:51 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by George Black
Post by Tony
http://themostimportantnews.com/we-are-now-entering-full-blown-tyranny-in-the-western-world/
Conspiracy theory or no there is some truth in this.
Our government rushed new gun laws, as soon as it had an excuse to do so.
I do not own a gun and I returned my licence some years ago so I have no "axe
to grind".
-
With the current rash of shootings I'm wondering where those weapons
came from since all the illegal weapons were handed in by every-one
after the Christchurch shootings...
And no-one would dream of crossing Cindy
The weapons thing is a symptom and the article clearly identifies the
opportunity that many have taken to push their agendas.
Teh article implied that the Covid-19 response was being used in
Canada for that purpose, but only gave the example of the prevention
of an illegal assembly, with the authorities trying to prevent mass
infection. Did you identify any other "agenda" being pushed, Tony?
Tony
2021-04-16 22:44:15 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 16 Apr 2021 15:42:51 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by George Black
Post by Tony
http://themostimportantnews.com/we-are-now-entering-full-blown-tyranny-in-the-western-world/
Conspiracy theory or no there is some truth in this.
Our government rushed new gun laws, as soon as it had an excuse to do so.
I do not own a gun and I returned my licence some years ago so I have no "axe
to grind".
-
With the current rash of shootings I'm wondering where those weapons
came from since all the illegal weapons were handed in by every-one
after the Christchurch shootings...
And no-one would dream of crossing Cindy
The weapons thing is a symptom and the article clearly identifies the
opportunity that many have taken to push their agendas.
Teh article implied that the Covid-19 response was being used in
Canada for that purpose, but only gave the example of the prevention
of an illegal assembly, with the authorities trying to prevent mass
infection. Did you identify any other "agenda" being pushed, Tony?
Obviously
Rich80105
2021-04-17 02:59:53 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Fri, 16 Apr 2021 17:44:15 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 16 Apr 2021 15:42:51 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by George Black
Post by Tony
http://themostimportantnews.com/we-are-now-entering-full-blown-tyranny-in-the-western-world/
Conspiracy theory or no there is some truth in this.
Our government rushed new gun laws, as soon as it had an excuse to do so.
I do not own a gun and I returned my licence some years ago so I have no "axe
to grind".
-
With the current rash of shootings I'm wondering where those weapons
came from since all the illegal weapons were handed in by every-one
after the Christchurch shootings...
And no-one would dream of crossing Cindy
The weapons thing is a symptom and the article clearly identifies the
opportunity that many have taken to push their agendas.
Teh article implied that the Covid-19 response was being used in
Canada for that purpose, but only gave the example of the prevention
of an illegal assembly, with the authorities trying to prevent mass
infection. Did you identify any other "agenda" being pushed, Tony?
Obviously
What other "agenda" had you identified that relates to New Zealand,
Tony?
Tony
2021-04-17 03:12:32 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 16 Apr 2021 17:44:15 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 16 Apr 2021 15:42:51 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by George Black
Post by Tony
http://themostimportantnews.com/we-are-now-entering-full-blown-tyranny-in-the-western-world/
Conspiracy theory or no there is some truth in this.
Our government rushed new gun laws, as soon as it had an excuse to do so.
I do not own a gun and I returned my licence some years ago so I have no "axe
to grind".
-
With the current rash of shootings I'm wondering where those weapons
came from since all the illegal weapons were handed in by every-one
after the Christchurch shootings...
And no-one would dream of crossing Cindy
The weapons thing is a symptom and the article clearly identifies the
opportunity that many have taken to push their agendas.
Teh article implied that the Covid-19 response was being used in
Canada for that purpose, but only gave the example of the prevention
of an illegal assembly, with the authorities trying to prevent mass
infection. Did you identify any other "agenda" being pushed, Tony?
Obviously
What other "agenda" had you identified that relates to New Zealand,
Tony?
It's all in this thread.
Rich80105
2021-04-17 03:33:02 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Fri, 16 Apr 2021 22:12:32 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 16 Apr 2021 17:44:15 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 16 Apr 2021 15:42:51 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by George Black
Post by Tony
http://themostimportantnews.com/we-are-now-entering-full-blown-tyranny-in-the-western-world/
Conspiracy theory or no there is some truth in this.
Our government rushed new gun laws, as soon as it had an excuse to do so.
I do not own a gun and I returned my licence some years ago so I have no "axe
to grind".
-
With the current rash of shootings I'm wondering where those weapons
came from since all the illegal weapons were handed in by every-one
after the Christchurch shootings...
And no-one would dream of crossing Cindy
The weapons thing is a symptom and the article clearly identifies the
opportunity that many have taken to push their agendas.
Teh article implied that the Covid-19 response was being used in
Canada for that purpose, but only gave the example of the prevention
of an illegal assembly, with the authorities trying to prevent mass
infection. Did you identify any other "agenda" being pushed, Tony?
Obviously
What other "agenda" had you identified that relates to New Zealand,
Tony?
It's all in this thread.
Are you referring to your opinion: "Our government rushed new gun
laws, as soon as it had an excuse to do so." ?
Tony
2021-04-17 04:15:43 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 16 Apr 2021 22:12:32 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 16 Apr 2021 17:44:15 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 16 Apr 2021 15:42:51 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by George Black
Post by Tony
http://themostimportantnews.com/we-are-now-entering-full-blown-tyranny-in-the-western-world/
Conspiracy theory or no there is some truth in this.
Our government rushed new gun laws, as soon as it had an excuse to do so.
I do not own a gun and I returned my licence some years ago so I have
no
"axe
to grind".
-
With the current rash of shootings I'm wondering where those weapons
came from since all the illegal weapons were handed in by every-one
after the Christchurch shootings...
And no-one would dream of crossing Cindy
The weapons thing is a symptom and the article clearly identifies the
opportunity that many have taken to push their agendas.
Teh article implied that the Covid-19 response was being used in
Canada for that purpose, but only gave the example of the prevention
of an illegal assembly, with the authorities trying to prevent mass
infection. Did you identify any other "agenda" being pushed, Tony?
Obviously
What other "agenda" had you identified that relates to New Zealand,
Tony?
It's all in this thread.
Are you referring to your opinion: "Our government rushed new gun
laws, as soon as it had an excuse to do so." ?
Read the thread. It is actually there.
James Christophers
2021-04-17 04:25:30 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 16 Apr 2021 22:12:32 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 16 Apr 2021 17:44:15 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 16 Apr 2021 15:42:51 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by George Black
Post by Tony
http://themostimportantnews.com/we-are-now-entering-full-blown-tyranny-in-the-western-world/
Conspiracy theory or no there is some truth in this.
Our government rushed new gun laws, as soon as it had an excuse to do so.
I do not own a gun and I returned my licence some years ago so I have no
"axe
to grind".
-
With the current rash of shootings I'm wondering where those weapons
came from since all the illegal weapons were handed in by every-one
after the Christchurch shootings...
And no-one would dream of crossing Cindy
The weapons thing is a symptom and the article clearly identifies the
opportunity that many have taken to push their agendas.
Teh article implied that the Covid-19 response was being used in
Canada for that purpose, but only gave the example of the prevention
of an illegal assembly, with the authorities trying to prevent mass
infection. Did you identify any other "agenda" being pushed, Tony?
Obviously
What other "agenda" had you identified that relates to New Zealand,
Tony?
It's all in this thread.
Are you referring to your opinion: "Our government rushed new gun
laws, as soon as it had an excuse to do so." ?
Dispassionate version: "New gun laws were introduced swiftly as deemed appropriate at that time."
Rich80105
2021-04-17 04:55:25 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Fri, 16 Apr 2021 21:25:30 -0700 (PDT), James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 16 Apr 2021 22:12:32 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 16 Apr 2021 17:44:15 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 16 Apr 2021 15:42:51 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by George Black
Post by Tony
http://themostimportantnews.com/we-are-now-entering-full-blown-tyranny-in-the-western-world/
Conspiracy theory or no there is some truth in this.
Our government rushed new gun laws, as soon as it had an excuse to do so.
I do not own a gun and I returned my licence some years ago so I have no
"axe
to grind".
-
With the current rash of shootings I'm wondering where those weapons
came from since all the illegal weapons were handed in by every-one
after the Christchurch shootings...
And no-one would dream of crossing Cindy
The weapons thing is a symptom and the article clearly identifies the
opportunity that many have taken to push their agendas.
Teh article implied that the Covid-19 response was being used in
Canada for that purpose, but only gave the example of the prevention
of an illegal assembly, with the authorities trying to prevent mass
infection. Did you identify any other "agenda" being pushed, Tony?
Obviously
What other "agenda" had you identified that relates to New Zealand,
Tony?
It's all in this thread.
Are you referring to your opinion: "Our government rushed new gun
laws, as soon as it had an excuse to do so." ?
Dispassionate version: "New gun laws were introduced swiftly as deemed appropriate at that time."
And such was the "tyrrany" that the 2019 legislation was voted for by
119 out of 120 Members of Parliament.
Tony
2021-04-17 05:01:24 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 16 Apr 2021 21:25:30 -0700 (PDT), James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 16 Apr 2021 22:12:32 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 16 Apr 2021 17:44:15 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 16 Apr 2021 15:42:51 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by George Black
Post by Tony
Post by Tony
http://themostimportantnews.com/we-are-now-entering-full-blown-tyranny-in-the-western-world/
Conspiracy theory or no there is some truth in this.
Our government rushed new gun laws, as soon as it had an excuse to
do so.
I do not own a gun and I returned my licence some years ago so I have no
"axe
to grind".
-
With the current rash of shootings I'm wondering where those weapons
came from since all the illegal weapons were handed in by every-one
after the Christchurch shootings...
And no-one would dream of crossing Cindy
The weapons thing is a symptom and the article clearly identifies the
opportunity that many have taken to push their agendas.
Teh article implied that the Covid-19 response was being used in
Canada for that purpose, but only gave the example of the prevention
of an illegal assembly, with the authorities trying to prevent mass
infection. Did you identify any other "agenda" being pushed, Tony?
Obviously
What other "agenda" had you identified that relates to New Zealand,
Tony?
It's all in this thread.
Are you referring to your opinion: "Our government rushed new gun
laws, as soon as it had an excuse to do so." ?
Dispassionate version: "New gun laws were introduced swiftly as deemed
appropriate at that time."
And such was the "tyrrany" that the 2019 legislation was voted for by
119 out of 120 Members of Parliament.
Nobody has mentioned tyranny. Where did you get that idea from?
Rich80105
2021-04-17 09:24:02 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Sat, 17 Apr 2021 00:01:24 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 16 Apr 2021 21:25:30 -0700 (PDT), James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 16 Apr 2021 22:12:32 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 16 Apr 2021 17:44:15 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 16 Apr 2021 15:42:51 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by George Black
Post by Tony
Post by Tony
http://themostimportantnews.com/we-are-now-entering-full-blown-tyranny-in-the-western-world/
Conspiracy theory or no there is some truth in this.
Our government rushed new gun laws, as soon as it had an excuse to
do so.
I do not own a gun and I returned my licence some years ago so I
have no
"axe
to grind".
-
With the current rash of shootings I'm wondering where those weapons
came from since all the illegal weapons were handed in by every-one
after the Christchurch shootings...
And no-one would dream of crossing Cindy
The weapons thing is a symptom and the article clearly identifies the
opportunity that many have taken to push their agendas.
Teh article implied that the Covid-19 response was being used in
Canada for that purpose, but only gave the example of the prevention
of an illegal assembly, with the authorities trying to prevent mass
infection. Did you identify any other "agenda" being pushed, Tony?
Obviously
What other "agenda" had you identified that relates to New Zealand,
Tony?
It's all in this thread.
Are you referring to your opinion: "Our government rushed new gun
laws, as soon as it had an excuse to do so." ?
Dispassionate version: "New gun laws were introduced swiftly as deemed
appropriate at that time."
And such was the "tyrrany" that the 2019 legislation was voted for by
119 out of 120 Members of Parliament.
Nobody has mentioned tyranny. Where did you get that idea from?
Read the url you posted - it is all there in the thread.
Sometimes Flat Earthers don't really think . . .
Tony
2021-04-17 20:46:31 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 17 Apr 2021 00:01:24 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 16 Apr 2021 21:25:30 -0700 (PDT), James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 16 Apr 2021 22:12:32 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 16 Apr 2021 17:44:15 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 16 Apr 2021 15:42:51 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by George Black
Post by Tony
Post by Tony
http://themostimportantnews.com/we-are-now-entering-full-blown-tyranny-in-the-western-world/
Conspiracy theory or no there is some truth in this.
Our government rushed new gun laws, as soon as it had an excuse to
do so.
I do not own a gun and I returned my licence some years ago so I
have no
"axe
to grind".
-
With the current rash of shootings I'm wondering where those weapons
came from since all the illegal weapons were handed in by every-one
after the Christchurch shootings...
And no-one would dream of crossing Cindy
The weapons thing is a symptom and the article clearly identifies the
opportunity that many have taken to push their agendas.
Teh article implied that the Covid-19 response was being used in
Canada for that purpose, but only gave the example of the prevention
of an illegal assembly, with the authorities trying to prevent mass
infection. Did you identify any other "agenda" being pushed, Tony?
Obviously
What other "agenda" had you identified that relates to New Zealand,
Tony?
It's all in this thread.
Are you referring to your opinion: "Our government rushed new gun
laws, as soon as it had an excuse to do so." ?
Dispassionate version: "New gun laws were introduced swiftly as deemed
appropriate at that time."
And such was the "tyrrany" that the 2019 legislation was voted for by
119 out of 120 Members of Parliament.
Nobody has mentioned tyranny. Where did you get that idea from?
Read the url you posted - it is all there in the thread.
Sometimes Flat Earthers don't really think . . .
Indeed you don't
Gordon
2021-04-18 04:02:48 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 16 Apr 2021 21:25:30 -0700 (PDT), James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 16 Apr 2021 22:12:32 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 16 Apr 2021 17:44:15 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 16 Apr 2021 15:42:51 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by George Black
Post by Tony
http://themostimportantnews.com/we-are-now-entering-full-blown-tyranny-in-the-western-world/
Conspiracy theory or no there is some truth in this.
Our government rushed new gun laws, as soon as it had an excuse to do so.
I do not own a gun and I returned my licence some years ago so I have no
"axe
to grind".
-
With the current rash of shootings I'm wondering where those weapons
came from since all the illegal weapons were handed in by every-one
after the Christchurch shootings...
And no-one would dream of crossing Cindy
The weapons thing is a symptom and the article clearly identifies the
opportunity that many have taken to push their agendas.
Teh article implied that the Covid-19 response was being used in
Canada for that purpose, but only gave the example of the prevention
of an illegal assembly, with the authorities trying to prevent mass
infection. Did you identify any other "agenda" being pushed, Tony?
Obviously
What other "agenda" had you identified that relates to New Zealand,
Tony?
It's all in this thread.
Are you referring to your opinion: "Our government rushed new gun
laws, as soon as it had an excuse to do so." ?
Dispassionate version: "New gun laws were introduced swiftly as deemed appropriate at that time."
And such was the "tyrrany" that the 2019 legislation was voted for by
119 out of 120 Members of Parliament.
One does need to add a dash of panic,lateness and knee jerking for ones
taste.

Whether or not the law was needed putting it through the House faster than
the MPs give them selves a rise is not best practice.

Interestingly by far the majority of MP's agree that another exemption which
one can discriminate against should be added. However the House seems to be
laid back on getting it done.
John Bowes
2021-04-17 06:36:53 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by James Christophers
Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 16 Apr 2021 22:12:32 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 16 Apr 2021 17:44:15 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 16 Apr 2021 15:42:51 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by George Black
Post by Tony
http://themostimportantnews.com/we-are-now-entering-full-blown-tyranny-in-the-western-world/
Conspiracy theory or no there is some truth in this.
Our government rushed new gun laws, as soon as it had an excuse to do so.
I do not own a gun and I returned my licence some years ago so I have no
"axe
to grind".
-
With the current rash of shootings I'm wondering where those weapons
came from since all the illegal weapons were handed in by every-one
after the Christchurch shootings...
And no-one would dream of crossing Cindy
The weapons thing is a symptom and the article clearly identifies the
opportunity that many have taken to push their agendas.
Teh article implied that the Covid-19 response was being used in
Canada for that purpose, but only gave the example of the prevention
of an illegal assembly, with the authorities trying to prevent mass
infection. Did you identify any other "agenda" being pushed, Tony?
Obviously
What other "agenda" had you identified that relates to New Zealand,
Tony?
It's all in this thread.
Are you referring to your opinion: "Our government rushed new gun
laws, as soon as it had an excuse to do so." ?
Dispassionate version: "New gun laws were introduced swiftly as deemed appropriate at that time."
They were rushed through by 119 idiots who had failed in their earlier attempt (about 2017 from memory) to punish honest New Zealanders!
John Bowes
2021-04-17 00:38:20 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by George Black
Post by Tony
http://themostimportantnews.com/we-are-now-entering-full-blown-tyranny-in-the-western-world/
Conspiracy theory or no there is some truth in this.
Our government rushed new gun laws, as soon as it had an excuse to do so.
I do not own a gun and I returned my licence some years ago so I have no "axe
to grind".
-
With the current rash of shootings I'm wondering where those weapons
came from since all the illegal weapons were handed in by every-one
after the Christchurch shootings...
And no-one would dream of crossing Cindy
No George. Only the ones in honest citizens hands were handed in. The politicians were to stupid to understand they weren't doing anything but demonstrate we had a parliament of 119 idiots :)
James Christophers
2021-04-17 04:58:15 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Tony
http://themostimportantnews.com/we-are-now-entering-full-blown-tyranny-in-the-western-world/
Conspiracy theory or no there is some truth in this.
Our government rushed new gun laws, as soon as it had an excuse to do so.
OK, so let's put that again, this time using the cooler, considered approach:

"New gun laws were introduced swiftly as deemed appropriate at that time."

From which we now move seamlessly to:

https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO2002/S00251/firearms-in-new-zealand-where-to-from-here.htm

If anyone has a problem with the content of the URL, their interests are likely to be better served by referring directly to Chris Cahill, NZ Police Association President.
Tony
2021-04-17 05:03:04 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
http://themostimportantnews.com/we-are-now-entering-full-blown-tyranny-in-the-western-world/
Conspiracy theory or no there is some truth in this.
Our government rushed new gun laws, as soon as it had an excuse to do so.
"New gun laws were introduced swiftly as deemed appropriate at that time."
https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO2002/S00251/firearms-in-new-zealand-where-to-from-here.htm
If anyone has a problem with the content of the URL, their interests are
likely to be better served by referring directly to Chris Cahill, NZ Police
Association President.
This thread has very little to do with gun laws. Think on.
James Christophers
2021-04-17 05:38:53 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
http://themostimportantnews.com/we-are-now-entering-full-blown-tyranny-in-the-western-world/
Conspiracy theory or no there is some truth in this.
Our government rushed new gun laws, as soon as it had an excuse to do so.
"New gun laws were introduced swiftly as deemed appropriate at that time."
https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO2002/S00251/firearms-in-new-zealand-where-to-from-here.htm
If anyone has a problem with the content of the URL, their interests are
likely to be better served by referring directly to Chris Cahill, NZ Police
Association President.
This thread has very little to do with gun laws.
The second line of your opening proposition goes (cite):

"Our government rushed new gun laws, as soon as it had an excuse to do so."

A personal opinion on action taken that itself has 100% to do with gun laws.

Your final line requires no further comment or mention.
Tony
2021-04-17 06:13:49 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by Tony
http://themostimportantnews.com/we-are-now-entering-full-blown-tyranny-in-the-western-world/
Conspiracy theory or no there is some truth in this.
Our government rushed new gun laws, as soon as it had an excuse to do so.
"New gun laws were introduced swiftly as deemed appropriate at that time."
Post by Tony
https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO2002/S00251/firearms-in-new-zealand-where-to-from-here.htm
If anyone has a problem with the content of the URL, their interests are
likely to be better served by referring directly to Chris Cahill, NZ Police
Association President.
This thread has very little to do with gun laws.
"Our government rushed new gun laws, as soon as it had an excuse to do so."
A personal opinion on action taken that itself has 100% to do with gun laws.
Your final line requires no further comment or mention.
There was a URL at the VERY beginning and my comment about NZ gun laws was,
obviously, an example to re-inforce some of what was mentioned in that URL.
Can't you read?
James Christophers
2021-04-17 07:06:53 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by Tony
http://themostimportantnews.com/we-are-now-entering-full-blown-tyranny-in-the-western-world/
Conspiracy theory or no there is some truth in this.
Our government rushed new gun laws, as soon as it had an excuse to do so.
"New gun laws were introduced swiftly as deemed appropriate at that time."
Post by Tony
https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO2002/S00251/firearms-in-new-zealand-where-to-from-here.htm
If anyone has a problem with the content of the URL, their interests are
likely to be better served by referring directly to Chris Cahill, NZ Police
Association President.
This thread has very little to do with gun laws.
"Our government rushed new gun laws, as soon as it had an excuse to do so."
A personal opinion on action taken that itself has 100% to do with gun laws.
Your final line requires no further comment or mention.
There was a URL at the VERY beginning and my comment about NZ gun laws was,
obviously, an example to re-inforce some of what was mentioned in that URL.
The URL gives a webpage bearing such a dismal jumble of conspiracy-theorist pictorials as to not to be worthy of any further exploration on my part. Even so, had you referenced and given an extract or two from one of these pictorials along with your reasons for your particular selection, I might have paid it some attention, however scant.

You seem not to realise that your maladroit reference to our government's actions that immediately follows your URL reference pre-empts and thereby negates any possible interest since the blatantly perjorative and pre-judged nature of your underlying intention automatically renders both the URL and your attempt at criticism redundant.
Tony
2021-04-17 07:12:37 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
http://themostimportantnews.com/we-are-now-entering-full-blown-tyranny-in-the-western-world/
Conspiracy theory or no there is some truth in this.
Our government rushed new gun laws, as soon as it had an excuse to do so.
"New gun laws were introduced swiftly as deemed appropriate at that time."
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO2002/S00251/firearms-in-new-zealand-where-to-from-here.htm
If anyone has a problem with the content of the URL, their interests are
likely to be better served by referring directly to Chris Cahill, NZ Police
Association President.
This thread has very little to do with gun laws.
"Our government rushed new gun laws, as soon as it had an excuse to do so."
A personal opinion on action taken that itself has 100% to do with gun laws.
Your final line requires no further comment or mention.
There was a URL at the VERY beginning and my comment about NZ gun laws was,
obviously, an example to re-inforce some of what was mentioned in that URL.
The URL gives a webpage bearing such a dismal jumble of conspiracy-theorist
pictorials as to not to be worthy of any further exploration on my part. Even
so, had you referenced and given an extract or two from one of these pictorials
along with your reasons for your particular selection, I might have paid it
some attention, however scant.
You seem not to realise that your maladroit reference to our government's
actions that immediately follows your URL reference pre-empts and thereby
negates any possible interest since the blatantly perjorative and pre-judged
nature of your underlying intention automatically renders both the URL and your
attempt at criticism redundant.
I realise much more than you do.
Please do us all a favour and actually read what is before your eyes.
Comprehension is of course another matter.
This thread was never about guns in NZ. Do try to understand. Rich might help
you!
Rich80105
2021-04-17 09:43:25 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Sat, 17 Apr 2021 02:12:37 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
http://themostimportantnews.com/we-are-now-entering-full-blown-tyranny-in-the-western-world/
Conspiracy theory or no there is some truth in this.
Our government rushed new gun laws, as soon as it had an excuse to do so.
"New gun laws were introduced swiftly as deemed appropriate at that time."
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO2002/S00251/firearms-in-new-zealand-where-to-from-here.htm
If anyone has a problem with the content of the URL, their interests are
likely to be better served by referring directly to Chris Cahill, NZ Police
Association President.
This thread has very little to do with gun laws.
"Our government rushed new gun laws, as soon as it had an excuse to do so."
A personal opinion on action taken that itself has 100% to do with gun laws.
Your final line requires no further comment or mention.
There was a URL at the VERY beginning and my comment about NZ gun laws was,
obviously, an example to re-inforce some of what was mentioned in that URL.
The URL gives a webpage bearing such a dismal jumble of conspiracy-theorist
pictorials as to not to be worthy of any further exploration on my part. Even
so, had you referenced and given an extract or two from one of these pictorials
along with your reasons for your particular selection, I might have paid it
some attention, however scant.
You seem not to realise that your maladroit reference to our government's
actions that immediately follows your URL reference pre-empts and thereby
negates any possible interest since the blatantly perjorative and pre-judged
nature of your underlying intention automatically renders both the URL and your
attempt at criticism redundant.
I realise much more than you do.
Please do us all a favour and actually read what is before your eyes.
Comprehension is of course another matter.
This thread was never about guns in NZ. Do try to understand. Rich might help
you!
It is clear that as far as you are concerned, Tony, it was always
about you; your unexplained interpretations, your slithering from one
hole you dug for yourself to the next, your attempts to deny your
flat-earther confusion, your denial of your own words. We can be
grqacious in your clear difficulties and not take your insults and
attempts to bully as anything more than desperate confusion on your
part as you found yourself arguing with your earlier posts. For all I
know, you may have thought it all a joke, but you turned out to be the
only laugh in such sad evidence of deterioration. Get help Tony.
Tony
2021-04-17 20:48:00 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 17 Apr 2021 02:12:37 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
http://themostimportantnews.com/we-are-now-entering-full-blown-tyranny-in-the-western-world/
Conspiracy theory or no there is some truth in this.
Our government rushed new gun laws, as soon as it had an excuse to
do
so.
"New gun laws were introduced swiftly as deemed appropriate at that time."
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO2002/S00251/firearms-in-new-zealand-where-to-from-here.htm
If anyone has a problem with the content of the URL, their interests are
likely to be better served by referring directly to Chris Cahill, NZ Police
Association President.
This thread has very little to do with gun laws.
"Our government rushed new gun laws, as soon as it had an excuse to do so."
A personal opinion on action taken that itself has 100% to do with gun laws.
Your final line requires no further comment or mention.
There was a URL at the VERY beginning and my comment about NZ gun laws was,
obviously, an example to re-inforce some of what was mentioned in that URL.
The URL gives a webpage bearing such a dismal jumble of conspiracy-theorist
pictorials as to not to be worthy of any further exploration on my part. Even
so, had you referenced and given an extract or two from one of these pictorials
along with your reasons for your particular selection, I might have paid it
some attention, however scant.
You seem not to realise that your maladroit reference to our government's
actions that immediately follows your URL reference pre-empts and thereby
negates any possible interest since the blatantly perjorative and pre-judged
nature of your underlying intention automatically renders both the URL and your
attempt at criticism redundant.
I realise much more than you do.
Please do us all a favour and actually read what is before your eyes.
Comprehension is of course another matter.
This thread was never about guns in NZ. Do try to understand. Rich might help
you!
It is clear that as far as you are concerned, Tony, it was always
about you; your unexplained interpretations, your slithering from one
hole you dug for yourself to the next, your attempts to deny your
flat-earther confusion, your denial of your own words. We can be
grqacious in your clear difficulties and not take your insults and
attempts to bully as anything more than desperate confusion on your
part as you found yourself arguing with your earlier posts. For all I
know, you may have thought it all a joke, but you turned out to be the
only laugh in such sad evidence of deterioration. Get help Tony.
This thread was never about guns. You are a disgraceful, abusive bully and
deserve the fate that bullies invariably meet.
Rich80105
2021-04-18 01:10:48 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Sat, 17 Apr 2021 15:48:00 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 17 Apr 2021 02:12:37 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
http://themostimportantnews.com/we-are-now-entering-full-blown-tyranny-in-the-western-world/
Conspiracy theory or no there is some truth in this.
Our government rushed new gun laws, as soon as it had an excuse to
do
so.
OK, so let's put that again, this time using the cooler, considered
"New gun laws were introduced swiftly as deemed appropriate at that time."
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO2002/S00251/firearms-in-new-zealand-where-to-from-here.htm
If anyone has a problem with the content of the URL, their interests are
likely to be better served by referring directly to Chris Cahill, NZ Police
Association President.
This thread has very little to do with gun laws.
"Our government rushed new gun laws, as soon as it had an excuse to do so."
A personal opinion on action taken that itself has 100% to do with gun laws.
Your final line requires no further comment or mention.
There was a URL at the VERY beginning and my comment about NZ gun laws was,
obviously, an example to re-inforce some of what was mentioned in that URL.
The URL gives a webpage bearing such a dismal jumble of conspiracy-theorist
pictorials as to not to be worthy of any further exploration on my part. Even
so, had you referenced and given an extract or two from one of these pictorials
along with your reasons for your particular selection, I might have paid it
some attention, however scant.
You seem not to realise that your maladroit reference to our government's
actions that immediately follows your URL reference pre-empts and thereby
negates any possible interest since the blatantly perjorative and pre-judged
nature of your underlying intention automatically renders both the URL and your
attempt at criticism redundant.
I realise much more than you do.
Please do us all a favour and actually read what is before your eyes.
Comprehension is of course another matter.
This thread was never about guns in NZ. Do try to understand. Rich might help
you!
It is clear that as far as you are concerned, Tony, it was always
about you; your unexplained interpretations, your slithering from one
hole you dug for yourself to the next, your attempts to deny your
flat-earther confusion, your denial of your own words. We can be
grqacious in your clear difficulties and not take your insults and
attempts to bully as anything more than desperate confusion on your
part as you found yourself arguing with your earlier posts. For all I
know, you may have thought it all a joke, but you turned out to be the
only laugh in such sad evidence of deterioration. Get help Tony.
This thread was never about guns. You are a disgraceful, abusive bully and
deserve the fate that bullies invariably meet.
http://themostimportantnews.com/we-are-now-entering-full-blown-tyranny-in-the-western-world/
Conspiracy theory or no there is some truth in this.
Our government rushed new gun laws, as soon as it had an excuse to do so.
I do not own a gun and I returned my licence some years ago so I have no "axe
to grind".
So there you have it, Tony
"we-are-now-entering-full-blown-tyranny-in-the-western-world" linked
by "undefined" to "Our government rushed new gun laws, as soon as it
had an excuse to do so."

My post of 16/4/2021 4:48 pm covered the history of gun legislation
in Australia and New Zealand, eventually resulting in some
restrictions being introduced in New Zealand, being nased on part of
the controls introduced by the Howard Liberal Government some years
earlier. Even now, our legislation is less comprehensive than
Australia's, where the existence of a register of gun owners and their
firearms is assiting police significantly.
Tony
2021-04-18 01:38:24 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 17 Apr 2021 15:48:00 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 17 Apr 2021 02:12:37 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
http://themostimportantnews.com/we-are-now-entering-full-blown-tyranny-in-the-western-world/
Conspiracy theory or no there is some truth in this.
Our government rushed new gun laws, as soon as it had an excuse to
do
so.
OK, so let's put that again, this time using the cooler, considered
"New gun laws were introduced swiftly as deemed appropriate at that
time."
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO2002/S00251/firearms-in-new-zealand-where-to-from-here.htm
If anyone has a problem with the content of the URL, their interests are
likely to be better served by referring directly to Chris Cahill, NZ
Police
Association President.
This thread has very little to do with gun laws.
"Our government rushed new gun laws, as soon as it had an excuse to do so."
A personal opinion on action taken that itself has 100% to do with gun laws.
Your final line requires no further comment or mention.
There was a URL at the VERY beginning and my comment about NZ gun laws was,
obviously, an example to re-inforce some of what was mentioned in that URL.
The URL gives a webpage bearing such a dismal jumble of
conspiracy-theorist
pictorials as to not to be worthy of any further exploration on my part. Even
so, had you referenced and given an extract or two from one of these pictorials
along with your reasons for your particular selection, I might have paid it
some attention, however scant.
You seem not to realise that your maladroit reference to our government's
actions that immediately follows your URL reference pre-empts and thereby
negates any possible interest since the blatantly perjorative and pre-judged
nature of your underlying intention automatically renders both the URL and your
attempt at criticism redundant.
I realise much more than you do.
Please do us all a favour and actually read what is before your eyes.
Comprehension is of course another matter.
This thread was never about guns in NZ. Do try to understand. Rich might help
you!
It is clear that as far as you are concerned, Tony, it was always
about you; your unexplained interpretations, your slithering from one
hole you dug for yourself to the next, your attempts to deny your
flat-earther confusion, your denial of your own words. We can be
grqacious in your clear difficulties and not take your insults and
attempts to bully as anything more than desperate confusion on your
part as you found yourself arguing with your earlier posts. For all I
know, you may have thought it all a joke, but you turned out to be the
only laugh in such sad evidence of deterioration. Get help Tony.
This thread was never about guns. You are a disgraceful, abusive bully and
deserve the fate that bullies invariably meet.
No on you and you alone. GThe post was entirely clear to anyone who read it.
The URL (the reason fro the post) was not about guns. Nice and clear now?
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
http://themostimportantnews.com/we-are-now-entering-full-blown-tyranny-in-the-western-world/
Conspiracy theory or no there is some truth in this.
Our government rushed new gun laws, as soon as it had an excuse to do so.
I do not own a gun and I returned my licence some years ago so I have no "axe
to grind".
So there you have it, Tony
Indeed I do - not about guns but about the URL.
Post by Rich80105
"we-are-now-entering-full-blown-tyranny-in-the-western-world" linked
by "undefined" to "Our government rushed new gun laws, as soon as it
had an excuse to do so."
Who is this undefined? Nothing to do with this thread.
Post by Rich80105
My post of 16/4/2021 4:48 pm covered the history of gun legislation
in Australia and New Zealand, eventually resulting in some
restrictions being introduced in New Zealand, being nased on part of
the controls introduced by the Howard Liberal Government some years
earlier. Even now, our legislation is less comprehensive than
Australia's, where the existence of a register of gun owners and their
firearms is assiting police significantly.
Off topic again.
Rich80105
2021-04-18 01:55:19 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Sat, 17 Apr 2021 20:38:24 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 17 Apr 2021 15:48:00 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 17 Apr 2021 02:12:37 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
http://themostimportantnews.com/we-are-now-entering-full-blown-tyranny-in-the-western-world/
Conspiracy theory or no there is some truth in this.
Our government rushed new gun laws, as soon as it had an excuse to
do
so.
OK, so let's put that again, this time using the cooler, considered
"New gun laws were introduced swiftly as deemed appropriate at that
time."
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO2002/S00251/firearms-in-new-zealand-where-to-from-here.htm
If anyone has a problem with the content of the URL, their interests
are
likely to be better served by referring directly to Chris Cahill, NZ
Police
Association President.
This thread has very little to do with gun laws.
"Our government rushed new gun laws, as soon as it had an excuse to do so."
A personal opinion on action taken that itself has 100% to do with gun laws.
Your final line requires no further comment or mention.
There was a URL at the VERY beginning and my comment about NZ gun laws was,
obviously, an example to re-inforce some of what was mentioned in that URL.
The URL gives a webpage bearing such a dismal jumble of
conspiracy-theorist
pictorials as to not to be worthy of any further exploration on my part. Even
so, had you referenced and given an extract or two from one of these pictorials
along with your reasons for your particular selection, I might have paid it
some attention, however scant.
You seem not to realise that your maladroit reference to our government's
actions that immediately follows your URL reference pre-empts and thereby
negates any possible interest since the blatantly perjorative and pre-judged
nature of your underlying intention automatically renders both the URL and your
attempt at criticism redundant.
I realise much more than you do.
Please do us all a favour and actually read what is before your eyes.
Comprehension is of course another matter.
This thread was never about guns in NZ. Do try to understand. Rich might help
you!
It is clear that as far as you are concerned, Tony, it was always
about you; your unexplained interpretations, your slithering from one
hole you dug for yourself to the next, your attempts to deny your
flat-earther confusion, your denial of your own words. We can be
grqacious in your clear difficulties and not take your insults and
attempts to bully as anything more than desperate confusion on your
part as you found yourself arguing with your earlier posts. For all I
know, you may have thought it all a joke, but you turned out to be the
only laugh in such sad evidence of deterioration. Get help Tony.
This thread was never about guns. You are a disgraceful, abusive bully and
deserve the fate that bullies invariably meet.
No on you and you alone. GThe post was entirely clear to anyone who read it.
The URL (the reason fro the post) was not about guns. Nice and clear now?
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
http://themostimportantnews.com/we-are-now-entering-full-blown-tyranny-in-the-western-world/
Conspiracy theory or no there is some truth in this.
Our government rushed new gun laws, as soon as it had an excuse to do so.
I do not own a gun and I returned my licence some years ago so I have no "axe
to grind".
So there you have it, Tony
Indeed I do - not about guns but about the URL.
Post by Rich80105
"we-are-now-entering-full-blown-tyranny-in-the-western-world" linked
by "undefined" to "Our government rushed new gun laws, as soon as it
had an excuse to do so."
Who is this undefined? Nothing to do with this thread.
That is the initial post in this thread, copied directly from my
reader. Given your expertise, I am sure it would not be difficult for
you to copy the first post to this thread, and identify the poster who
referred to new gun laws . . .
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
My post of 16/4/2021 4:48 pm covered the history of gun legislation
in Australia and New Zealand, eventually resulting in some
restrictions being introduced in New Zealand, being nased on part of
the controls introduced by the Howard Liberal Government some years
earlier. Even now, our legislation is less comprehensive than
Australia's, where the existence of a register of gun owners and their
firearms is assiting police significantly.
Off topic again.
Tony
2021-04-18 02:50:13 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 17 Apr 2021 20:38:24 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 17 Apr 2021 15:48:00 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 17 Apr 2021 02:12:37 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
http://themostimportantnews.com/we-are-now-entering-full-blown-tyranny-in-the-western-world/
Conspiracy theory or no there is some truth in this.
Our government rushed new gun laws, as soon as it had an excuse to
do
so.
OK, so let's put that again, this time using the cooler, considered
"New gun laws were introduced swiftly as deemed appropriate at that
time."
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO2002/S00251/firearms-in-new-zealand-where-to-from-here.htm
If anyone has a problem with the content of the URL, their interests
are
likely to be better served by referring directly to Chris Cahill, NZ
Police
Association President.
This thread has very little to do with gun laws.
"Our government rushed new gun laws, as soon as it had an excuse to
do
so."
A personal opinion on action taken that itself has 100% to do with
gun
laws.
Your final line requires no further comment or mention.
There was a URL at the VERY beginning and my comment about NZ gun laws was,
obviously, an example to re-inforce some of what was mentioned in that URL.
The URL gives a webpage bearing such a dismal jumble of
conspiracy-theorist
pictorials as to not to be worthy of any further exploration on my part. Even
so, had you referenced and given an extract or two from one of these pictorials
along with your reasons for your particular selection, I might have paid it
some attention, however scant.
You seem not to realise that your maladroit reference to our government's
actions that immediately follows your URL reference pre-empts and thereby
negates any possible interest since the blatantly perjorative and pre-judged
nature of your underlying intention automatically renders both the URL
and
your
attempt at criticism redundant.
I realise much more than you do.
Please do us all a favour and actually read what is before your eyes.
Comprehension is of course another matter.
This thread was never about guns in NZ. Do try to understand. Rich might help
you!
It is clear that as far as you are concerned, Tony, it was always
about you; your unexplained interpretations, your slithering from one
hole you dug for yourself to the next, your attempts to deny your
flat-earther confusion, your denial of your own words. We can be
grqacious in your clear difficulties and not take your insults and
attempts to bully as anything more than desperate confusion on your
part as you found yourself arguing with your earlier posts. For all I
know, you may have thought it all a joke, but you turned out to be the
only laugh in such sad evidence of deterioration. Get help Tony.
This thread was never about guns. You are a disgraceful, abusive bully and
deserve the fate that bullies invariably meet.
No on you and you alone. GThe post was entirely clear to anyone who read it.
The URL (the reason fro the post) was not about guns. Nice and clear now?
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
http://themostimportantnews.com/we-are-now-entering-full-blown-tyranny-in-the-western-world/
Conspiracy theory or no there is some truth in this.
Our government rushed new gun laws, as soon as it had an excuse to do so.
I do not own a gun and I returned my licence some years ago so I have no "axe
to grind".
So there you have it, Tony
Indeed I do - not about guns but about the URL.
Post by Rich80105
"we-are-now-entering-full-blown-tyranny-in-the-western-world" linked
by "undefined" to "Our government rushed new gun laws, as soon as it
had an excuse to do so."
Who is this undefined? Nothing to do with this thread.
That is the initial post in this thread, copied directly from my
reader. Given your expertise, I am sure it would not be difficult for
you to copy the first post to this thread, and identify the poster who
referred to new gun laws .
No that is you making shit up. This thread is about the URL I posted, the
comment about gun laws is just an exaample of what the article at the URL is
about.
You have had it explained to you by Keith Warrem (you refuse to accept his
posting name is James).
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
My post of 16/4/2021 4:48 pm covered the history of gun legislation
in Australia and New Zealand, eventually resulting in some
restrictions being introduced in New Zealand, being nased on part of
the controls introduced by the Howard Liberal Government some years
earlier. Even now, our legislation is less comprehensive than
Australia's, where the existence of a register of gun owners and their
firearms is assiting police significantly.
Off topic again.
James Christophers
2021-04-18 04:35:14 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 17 Apr 2021 20:38:24 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 17 Apr 2021 15:48:00 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 17 Apr 2021 02:12:37 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
http://themostimportantnews.com/we-are-now-entering-full-blown-tyranny-in-the-western-world/
Conspiracy theory or no there is some truth in this.
Our government rushed new gun laws, as soon as it had an excuse to
do
so.
OK, so let's put that again, this time using the cooler, considered
"New gun laws were introduced swiftly as deemed appropriate at that
time."
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO2002/S00251/firearms-in-new-zealand-where-to-from-here.htm
If anyone has a problem with the content of the URL, their interests
are
likely to be better served by referring directly to Chris Cahill, NZ
Police
Association President.
This thread has very little to do with gun laws.
"Our government rushed new gun laws, as soon as it had an excuse to do
so."
A personal opinion on action taken that itself has 100% to do with gun
laws.
Your final line requires no further comment or mention.
There was a URL at the VERY beginning and my comment about NZ gun laws was,
obviously, an example to re-inforce some of what was mentioned in that URL.
The URL gives a webpage bearing such a dismal jumble of
conspiracy-theorist
pictorials as to not to be worthy of any further exploration on my part. Even
so, had you referenced and given an extract or two from one of these pictorials
along with your reasons for your particular selection, I might have paid it
some attention, however scant.
You seem not to realise that your maladroit reference to our government's
actions that immediately follows your URL reference pre-empts and thereby
negates any possible interest since the blatantly perjorative and pre-judged
nature of your underlying intention automatically renders both the URL and your
attempt at criticism redundant.
I realise much more than you do.
Please do us all a favour and actually read what is before your eyes.
Comprehension is of course another matter.
This thread was never about guns in NZ. Do try to understand. Rich might help
you!
It is clear that as far as you are concerned, Tony, it was always
about you; your unexplained interpretations, your slithering from one
hole you dug for yourself to the next, your attempts to deny your
flat-earther confusion, your denial of your own words. We can be
grqacious in your clear difficulties and not take your insults and
attempts to bully as anything more than desperate confusion on your
part as you found yourself arguing with your earlier posts. For all I
know, you may have thought it all a joke, but you turned out to be the
only laugh in such sad evidence of deterioration. Get help Tony.
This thread was never about guns. You are a disgraceful, abusive bully and
deserve the fate that bullies invariably meet.
No on you and you alone. GThe post was entirely clear to anyone who read it.
The URL (the reason fro the post) was not about guns. Nice and clear now?
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
http://themostimportantnews.com/we-are-now-entering-full-blown-tyranny-in-the-western-world/
Conspiracy theory or no there is some truth in this.
Our government rushed new gun laws, as soon as it had an excuse to do so.
I do not own a gun and I returned my licence some years ago so I have no "axe
to grind".
So there you have it, Tony
Indeed I do - not about guns but about the URL.
Post by Rich80105
"we-are-now-entering-full-blown-tyranny-in-the-western-world" linked
by "undefined" to "Our government rushed new gun laws, as soon as it
had an excuse to do so."
Who is this undefined? Nothing to do with this thread.
That is the initial post in this thread, copied directly from my
reader. Given your expertise, I am sure it would not be difficult for
you to copy the first post to this thread, and identify the poster who
referred to new gun laws . . .
May I? Here it is, verbatim, unedited, uncorrupted and unexpurgated (The original last sentence has been excluded because it is not specifically germane to the matter in hand):

======================
Unknown
16 Apr 2021, 15:19:14 (2 days ago)
to
http://themostimportantnews.com/we-are-now-entering-full-blown-tyranny-in-the-western-world/
Conspiracy theory or no there is some truth in this.
Our government rushed new gun laws, as soon as it had an excuse to do so.
======================

The contiguous linking between the two statements without further explanation or qualification makes both purpose and intent transparently and unambiguously clear.

All else is gaslight and tomfoolery - IOW, making shit up.
Tony
2021-04-18 05:13:24 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by James Christophers
Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 17 Apr 2021 20:38:24 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 17 Apr 2021 15:48:00 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 17 Apr 2021 02:12:37 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
http://themostimportantnews.com/we-are-now-entering-full-blown-tyranny-in-the-western-world/
Conspiracy theory or no there is some truth in this.
Our government rushed new gun laws, as soon as it had an
excuse to
do
so.
OK, so let's put that again, this time using the cooler,
considered
"New gun laws were introduced swiftly as deemed appropriate at
that
time."
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO2002/S00251/firearms-in-new-zealand-where-to-from-here.htm
If anyone has a problem with the content of the URL, their
interests
are
likely to be better served by referring directly to Chris
Cahill, NZ
Police
Association President.
This thread has very little to do with gun laws.
"Our government rushed new gun laws, as soon as it had an excuse to do
so."
A personal opinion on action taken that itself has 100% to do with gun
laws.
Your final line requires no further comment or mention.
There was a URL at the VERY beginning and my comment about NZ gun
laws
was,
obviously, an example to re-inforce some of what was mentioned in
that
URL.
The URL gives a webpage bearing such a dismal jumble of
conspiracy-theorist
pictorials as to not to be worthy of any further exploration on my
part.
Even
so, had you referenced and given an extract or two from one of these
pictorials
along with your reasons for your particular selection, I might have
paid
it
some attention, however scant.
You seem not to realise that your maladroit reference to our government's
actions that immediately follows your URL reference pre-empts and thereby
negates any possible interest since the blatantly perjorative and pre-judged
nature of your underlying intention automatically renders both the URL
and
your
attempt at criticism redundant.
I realise much more than you do.
Please do us all a favour and actually read what is before your eyes.
Comprehension is of course another matter.
This thread was never about guns in NZ. Do try to understand. Rich
might
help
you!
It is clear that as far as you are concerned, Tony, it was always
about you; your unexplained interpretations, your slithering from one
hole you dug for yourself to the next, your attempts to deny your
flat-earther confusion, your denial of your own words. We can be
grqacious in your clear difficulties and not take your insults and
attempts to bully as anything more than desperate confusion on your
part as you found yourself arguing with your earlier posts. For all I
know, you may have thought it all a joke, but you turned out to be the
only laugh in such sad evidence of deterioration. Get help Tony.
This thread was never about guns. You are a disgraceful, abusive bully and
deserve the fate that bullies invariably meet.
No on you and you alone. GThe post was entirely clear to anyone who read it.
The URL (the reason fro the post) was not about guns. Nice and clear now?
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
http://themostimportantnews.com/we-are-now-entering-full-blown-tyranny-in-the-western-world/
Conspiracy theory or no there is some truth in this.
Our government rushed new gun laws, as soon as it had an excuse to do so.
I do not own a gun and I returned my licence some years ago so I have no "axe
to grind".
So there you have it, Tony
Indeed I do - not about guns but about the URL.
Post by Rich80105
"we-are-now-entering-full-blown-tyranny-in-the-western-world" linked
by "undefined" to "Our government rushed new gun laws, as soon as it
had an excuse to do so."
Who is this undefined? Nothing to do with this thread.
That is the initial post in this thread, copied directly from my
reader. Given your expertise, I am sure it would not be difficult for
you to copy the first post to this thread, and identify the poster who
referred to new gun laws . . .
May I? Here it is, verbatim, unedited, uncorrupted and unexpurgated (The
original last sentence has been excluded because it is not specifically germane
======================
Unknown
16 Apr 2021, 15:19:14 (2 days ago)
to
http://themostimportantnews.com/we-are-now-entering-full-blown-tyranny-in-the-western-world/
Conspiracy theory or no there is some truth in this.
Our government rushed new gun laws, as soon as it had an excuse to do so.
======================
The contiguous linking between the two statements without further explanation
or qualification makes both purpose and intent transparently and unambiguously
clear.
All else is gaslight and tomfoolery - IOW, making shit up.
Well done Keith. You have him bang to rights.
John Bowes
2021-04-17 06:38:37 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
http://themostimportantnews.com/we-are-now-entering-full-blown-tyranny-in-the-western-world/
Conspiracy theory or no there is some truth in this.
Our government rushed new gun laws, as soon as it had an excuse to do so.
"New gun laws were introduced swiftly as deemed appropriate at that time."
https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO2002/S00251/firearms-in-new-zealand-where-to-from-here.htm
If anyone has a problem with the content of the URL, their interests are
likely to be better served by referring directly to Chris Cahill, NZ Police
Association President.
This thread has very little to do with gun laws.
"Our government rushed new gun laws, as soon as it had an excuse to do so."
A personal opinion on action taken that itself has 100% to do with gun laws.
Your final line requires no further comment or mention.
It was rushed through Keith and no longwinded response in an attempt to wind Tony up will prove any more than that your just another fucking troll like your Marxist sidekick Rich!
Crash
2021-04-17 22:21:02 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Thu, 15 Apr 2021 22:19:08 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
http://themostimportantnews.com/we-are-now-entering-full-blown-tyranny-in-the-western-world/
Conspiracy theory or no there is some truth in this.
Our government rushed new gun laws, as soon as it had an excuse to do so.
I do not own a gun and I returned my licence some years ago so I have no "axe
to grind".
I agree that there is cause for concern that events like the COVID19
pandemic and the March 15 attack on the Chch mosques are used to
justify ill-considered law changes.

The mosques attacks resulted in a revision to gun laws. As someone
who has never and will never own a gun I am not affected personally
and I applaud any measure that works to reduce criminal use of
weapons.

The COVID19 pandemic has a much greater impact, much of which is yet
to impact us. In the next few years the government will have a level
of debt that most recently was considered unacceptably high -
particularly after a decade recovering from the GFC and Christchurch
earthquakes. There will be curbs on our freedoms that come with lock
downs to the point that many of us will no longer voluntarily comply
with lock down restrictions. There will also be expectations that the
eye-watering level of government subsidies to support economic
activity and preserve employment options could be similarly applied to
other social ills such as health funding, social housing etc.

Currently the National party in opposition appears to be distracted
from keeping the government honest, so we the voters cannot rely on
them to shine a blow-torch where needed.


--
Crash McBash
James Christophers
2021-04-18 00:44:18 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 15 Apr 2021 22:19:08 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
http://themostimportantnews.com/we-are-now-entering-full-blown-tyranny-in-the-western-world/
Conspiracy theory or no there is some truth in this.
Our government rushed new gun laws, as soon as it had an excuse to do so.
I do not own a gun and I returned my licence some years ago so I have no "axe
to grind".
I agree that there is cause for concern that events like the COVID19
pandemic and the March 15 attack on the Chch mosques are used to
justify ill-considered law changes.
In my reading of it, it was because of the perceived and generally agreed need for early preventative and meaningful action that from the government's point of view justified its legislation, rough-hewn as it has been in this instance. To me, this does not amount to a malign opportunism as insidiously implied by the term "an excuse". Ill-considered or insufficiently considered action can and does occur when clear and present urgency overrides due attention to detail and its possible potential consequences.
Post by Rich80105
The mosques attacks resulted in a revision to gun laws. As someone
who has never and will never own a gun I am not affected personally
and I applaud any measure that works to reduce criminal use of
weapons.
The COVID19 pandemic has a much greater impact, much of which is yet
to impact us. In the next few years the government will have a level
of debt that most recently was considered unacceptably high -
particularly after a decade recovering from the GFC and Christchurch
earthquakes. There will be curbs on our freedoms that come with lock
downs to the point that many of us will no longer voluntarily comply
with lock down restrictions. There will also be expectations that the
eye-watering level of government subsidies to support economic
activity and preserve employment options could be similarly applied to
other social ills such as health funding, social housing etc.
And that's not the end of it by a long chalk...

We are sucked ever deeper into the unknown of an increasingly complex, crucially interactive world economy, a shaky global whelk-stall constructed from and supported entirely by cheap paper, printed like it is going out of fashion by a self-selected few 1000% out for themselves and themselves only. This, by the way is no conspiracy theory but the manifest, 24/7/365 in-yer-face outcome of decades of unregulated, degenerate greed and avarice, all of it driven by the all-embracing mantra, "More can never be enough".
Post by Rich80105
Currently the National party in opposition appears to be distracted
from keeping the government honest, so we the voters cannot rely on
them to shine a blow-torch where needed.
Not that there is 100% equivalence, but Boris Johnson, too, is presently luxuriating in the political freedoms he daily corrupts and abuses purely as a result of Starmer's low numbers.
BR
2021-04-18 17:21:38 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 15 Apr 2021 22:19:08 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
http://themostimportantnews.com/we-are-now-entering-full-blown-tyranny-in-the-western-world/
Conspiracy theory or no there is some truth in this.
Our government rushed new gun laws, as soon as it had an excuse to do so.
I do not own a gun and I returned my licence some years ago so I have no "axe
to grind".
I agree that there is cause for concern that events like the COVID19
pandemic and the March 15 attack on the Chch mosques are used to
justify ill-considered law changes.
The mosques attacks resulted in a revision to gun laws. As someone
who has never and will never own a gun I am not affected personally
and I applaud any measure that works to reduce criminal use of
weapons.
Banning guns does not reduce the criminal use of them.

Bill.
--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com
George Black
2021-04-18 19:50:56 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by BR
Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 15 Apr 2021 22:19:08 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
http://themostimportantnews.com/we-are-now-entering-full-blown-tyranny-in-the-western-world/
Conspiracy theory or no there is some truth in this.
Our government rushed new gun laws, as soon as it had an excuse to do so.
I do not own a gun and I returned my licence some years ago so I have no "axe
to grind".
I agree that there is cause for concern that events like the COVID19
pandemic and the March 15 attack on the Chch mosques are used to
justify ill-considered law changes.
The mosques attacks resulted in a revision to gun laws. As someone
who has never and will never own a gun I am not affected personally
and I applaud any measure that works to reduce criminal use of
weapons.
Banning guns does not reduce the criminal use of them.
Bill.
I suppose he wants to pass a law that bans criminals from owning firearms..
And the crims obey it.....
Rich80105
2021-04-18 20:52:30 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by George Black
Post by BR
Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 15 Apr 2021 22:19:08 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
http://themostimportantnews.com/we-are-now-entering-full-blown-tyranny-in-the-western-world/
Conspiracy theory or no there is some truth in this.
Our government rushed new gun laws, as soon as it had an excuse to do so.
I do not own a gun and I returned my licence some years ago so I have no "axe
to grind".
I agree that there is cause for concern that events like the COVID19
pandemic and the March 15 attack on the Chch mosques are used to
justify ill-considered law changes.
The mosques attacks resulted in a revision to gun laws. As someone
who has never and will never own a gun I am not affected personally
and I applaud any measure that works to reduce criminal use of
weapons.
Banning guns does not reduce the criminal use of them.
Bill.
I suppose he wants to pass a law that bans criminals from owning firearms..
Its not clear whether the "he" you are talking about is "undefined" or
Tony or BR or any male politician of the day except David Saunders.
The law does not ban all "guns", but yes those that use guns for
criminal purposes may become criminals through that use of a gun as
well as wheteverother illegal actions they make.

Certainly the number of killings through use of firearms reduced
significantly in Australia following the baning of certain types by
the Howard government many years ago. I do not recall seeing
statistics for New Zealand, but apparently the arrival in New Zealand
of criminals deported from Australia may not have helped the NZ
experience.
Post by George Black
And the crims obey it.....
Yes some crims - just not those that do not obey it . . .
John Bowes
2021-04-18 21:07:46 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
Post by George Black
Post by BR
Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 15 Apr 2021 22:19:08 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
http://themostimportantnews.com/we-are-now-entering-full-blown-tyranny-in-the-western-world/
Conspiracy theory or no there is some truth in this.
Our government rushed new gun laws, as soon as it had an excuse to do so.
I do not own a gun and I returned my licence some years ago so I have no "axe
to grind".
I agree that there is cause for concern that events like the COVID19
pandemic and the March 15 attack on the Chch mosques are used to
justify ill-considered law changes.
The mosques attacks resulted in a revision to gun laws. As someone
who has never and will never own a gun I am not affected personally
and I applaud any measure that works to reduce criminal use of
weapons.
Banning guns does not reduce the criminal use of them.
Bill.
I suppose he wants to pass a law that bans criminals from owning firearms..
Its not clear whether the "he" you are talking about is "undefined" or
Tony or BR or any male politician of the day except David Saunders.
The law does not ban all "guns", but yes those that use guns for
criminal purposes may become criminals through that use of a gun as
well as wheteverother illegal actions they make.
It's YOU. But guess like the gormless Marxist muppet you are you'll deny that obvious fact. Just as you deny we have a totalitarian government, which is what Tony was getting at in his original post!
Post by Rich80105
Certainly the number of killings through use of firearms reduced
significantly in Australia following the baning of certain types by
the Howard government many years ago. I do not recall seeing
statistics for New Zealand, but apparently the arrival in New Zealand
of criminals deported from Australia may not have helped the NZ
experience.
Our own home grown criminals have never been adverse to shooting indiscriminately. Don't blame the Aussie rejects who've been sent back to the country of their birth because Aussie doesn't want our scum! Do you have a cite for your senseless claim Aussie gun laws have stopped the crims shooting each other in Australia? Because it sounds like just another lie from you to support yet another of your mindless lies!
Post by Rich80105
Post by George Black
And the crims obey it.....
Yes some crims - just not those that do not obey it . . .
No Rich NONE of Labours favoured voter base you moronic fucking idiot!
Rich80105
2021-04-19 01:53:58 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Sun, 18 Apr 2021 14:07:46 -0700 (PDT), John Bowes
Post by John Bowes
Post by Rich80105
Post by George Black
Post by BR
Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 15 Apr 2021 22:19:08 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
http://themostimportantnews.com/we-are-now-entering-full-blown-tyranny-in-the-western-world/
Conspiracy theory or no there is some truth in this.
Our government rushed new gun laws, as soon as it had an excuse to do so.
I do not own a gun and I returned my licence some years ago so I have no "axe
to grind".
I agree that there is cause for concern that events like the COVID19
pandemic and the March 15 attack on the Chch mosques are used to
justify ill-considered law changes.
The mosques attacks resulted in a revision to gun laws. As someone
who has never and will never own a gun I am not affected personally
and I applaud any measure that works to reduce criminal use of
weapons.
Banning guns does not reduce the criminal use of them.
Bill.
I suppose he wants to pass a law that bans criminals from owning firearms..
Its not clear whether the "he" you are talking about is "undefined" or
Tony or BR or any male politician of the day except David Saunders.
The law does not ban all "guns", but yes those that use guns for
criminal purposes may become criminals through that use of a gun as
well as wheteverother illegal actions they make.
It's YOU. But guess like the gormless Marxist muppet you are you'll deny that obvious fact. Just as you deny we have a totalitarian government, which is what Tony was getting at in his original post!
Post by Rich80105
Certainly the number of killings through use of firearms reduced
significantly in Australia following the baning of certain types by
the Howard government many years ago. I do not recall seeing
statistics for New Zealand, but apparently the arrival in New Zealand
of criminals deported from Australia may not have helped the NZ
experience.
Our own home grown criminals have never been adverse to shooting indiscriminately. Don't blame the Aussie rejects who've been sent back to the country of their birth because Aussie doesn't want our scum! Do you have a cite for your senseless claim Aussie gun laws have stopped the crims shooting each other in Australia? Because it sounds like just another lie from you to support yet another of your mindless lies!
Post by Rich80105
Post by George Black
And the crims obey it.....
Yes some crims - just not those that do not obey it . . .
No Rich NONE of Labours favoured voter base you moronic fucking idiot!
I have not claimed that "Aussie gun laws have stopped the crims
shooting each other in Australia" - but there is evidence that the
laws reduced deaths from guns. I covered this in my post from
16/4/2021 at 4:48pm, which I copy below:
_________________________________
On Thu, 15 Apr 2021 22:19:08 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by John Bowes
http://themostimportantnews.com/we-are-now-entering-full-blown-tyranny-in-the-western-world/
Conspiracy theory or no there is some truth in this.
Even for Canada it is pushing it. From
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1107079/covid19-deaths-by-province-territory-canada/
"Ontario and Quebec have been the most severely affected. COVID-19
continues to pose a serious health threat to Canadians, but there have
been positive signs since the start of 2021, with the number of daily
new cases falling considerably." The differences in infection rates
by province are significant.

Far from "Orwellian", responses to Covid in most countries have been
less restrictive than ideal, and those imposed have often been lifted
too early.

From https://edmontonjournal.com/news/local-news/gracelife-tick-tock
"GraceLife is the ultimate COVID-19 scofflaw, or a paragon of
religious liberty, depending who you ask. The church continued to hold
over-capacity indoor services throughout COVID’s second wave, despite
surging infections and multiple public health orders mandating limits
on in-person worship. Pastor James Coates spent 35 days in remand for
repeatedly refusing to abide by the rules."

We know from New Zealand experience that gathering such as those of
churches can be particularly risky in relation to spreading Covid-19 -
this appears to be wilful flouting of laws rather than tyranny from
the Ontario Government
Post by John Bowes
Our government rushed new gun laws, as soon as it had an excuse to do so.
I do not own a gun and I returned my licence some years ago so I have no "axe
to grind".
Our new gun laws were not a response to Covid, but to the Christchurch
shootings. Stronger gun laws have been discussed in New Zealand for a
long time, but particularly since the Howard Federal Government
implemented changes in 1996 - starting 12 days after the Tasmanian
shooting - see https://injuryprevention.bmj.com/content/12/6/365

New Zealand had been considering changes ever since, but the
Christchurch shooings on 15 March 2019 led to an initial stage of law
changes on 15 April - see
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_law_in_New_Zealand#Arms_Amendment_Bills_2_and_3_(1999_to_2012)

These were in line with previous proposals, and were passed by 119
votes to 1 - this was not tyranny, but a logical first step following
extensive previous discussions, and a mood from all except one MP to
see something done quickly. Only a small minority argued for delay in
passing that first stage of legislation.

As far as Covid is concerned, the New Zealand approach of going hard
and fast, or 'putting lives first', has seen New Zealand not only
experience lower infection rates than most countries, but also lower
economic damage than many other countries - we now have the luxury of
not having to rush a vaccination programme; even if the alarm in the
referenced article about the efficacy of vaccines is true, we are able
to make choices without needing to combat community infections through
vaccination.

So indeed flat -earthers should beware, and acquant themselves with a
few facts before seeing tyrrany in the western world, or here in New
Zealand, through an incident that demonstrates the danger of
non-compliance with reasonable covid infection prevention precautions.
The danger is not from government, but from extremists who do not
accept reasonable laws . . .
______________________________________________________
Tony
2021-04-19 02:58:04 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Sun, 18 Apr 2021 14:07:46 -0700 (PDT), John Bowes
Post by John Bowes
Post by Rich80105
Post by George Black
Post by BR
Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 15 Apr 2021 22:19:08 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
http://themostimportantnews.com/we-are-now-entering-full-blown-tyranny-in-the-western-world/
Conspiracy theory or no there is some truth in this.
Our government rushed new gun laws, as soon as it had an excuse to do so.
I do not own a gun and I returned my licence some years ago so I have no "axe
to grind".
I agree that there is cause for concern that events like the COVID19
pandemic and the March 15 attack on the Chch mosques are used to
justify ill-considered law changes.
The mosques attacks resulted in a revision to gun laws. As someone
who has never and will never own a gun I am not affected personally
and I applaud any measure that works to reduce criminal use of
weapons.
Banning guns does not reduce the criminal use of them.
Bill.
I suppose he wants to pass a law that bans criminals from owning firearms..
Its not clear whether the "he" you are talking about is "undefined" or
Tony or BR or any male politician of the day except David Saunders.
The law does not ban all "guns", but yes those that use guns for
criminal purposes may become criminals through that use of a gun as
well as wheteverother illegal actions they make.
It's YOU. But guess like the gormless Marxist muppet you are you'll deny that
obvious fact. Just as you deny we have a totalitarian government, which is what
Tony was getting at in his original post!
Post by Rich80105
Certainly the number of killings through use of firearms reduced
significantly in Australia following the baning of certain types by
the Howard government many years ago. I do not recall seeing
statistics for New Zealand, but apparently the arrival in New Zealand
of criminals deported from Australia may not have helped the NZ
experience.
Our own home grown criminals have never been adverse to shooting
indiscriminately. Don't blame the Aussie rejects who've been sent back to the
country of their birth because Aussie doesn't want our scum! Do you have a cite
for your senseless claim Aussie gun laws have stopped the crims shooting each
other in Australia? Because it sounds like just another lie from you to support
yet another of your mindless lies!
Post by Rich80105
Post by George Black
And the crims obey it.....
Yes some crims - just not those that do not obey it . . .
No Rich NONE of Labours favoured voter base you moronic fucking idiot!
I have not claimed that "Aussie gun laws have stopped the crims
shooting each other in Australia" - but there is evidence that the
laws reduced deaths from guns. I covered this in my post from
_________________________________
On Thu, 15 Apr 2021 22:19:08 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by John Bowes
http://themostimportantnews.com/we-are-now-entering-full-blown-tyranny-in-the-western-world/
Conspiracy theory or no there is some truth in this.
Even for Canada it is pushing it. From
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1107079/covid19-deaths-by-province-territory-canada/
"Ontario and Quebec have been the most severely affected. COVID-19
continues to pose a serious health threat to Canadians, but there have
been positive signs since the start of 2021, with the number of daily
new cases falling considerably." The differences in infection rates
by province are significant.
Far from "Orwellian", responses to Covid in most countries have been
less restrictive than ideal, and those imposed have often been lifted
too early.
From https://edmontonjournal.com/news/local-news/gracelife-tick-tock
"GraceLife is the ultimate COVID-19 scofflaw, or a paragon of
religious liberty, depending who you ask. The church continued to hold
over-capacity indoor services throughout COVID’s second wave, despite
surging infections and multiple public health orders mandating limits
on in-person worship. Pastor James Coates spent 35 days in remand for
repeatedly refusing to abide by the rules."
We know from New Zealand experience that gathering such as those of
churches can be particularly risky in relation to spreading Covid-19 -
this appears to be wilful flouting of laws rather than tyranny from
the Ontario Government
Post by John Bowes
Our government rushed new gun laws, as soon as it had an excuse to do so.
I do not own a gun and I returned my licence some years ago so I have no "axe
to grind".
Our new gun laws were not a response to Covid, but to the Christchurch
shootings.
I did not say otherwise.
Post by Rich80105
Stronger gun laws have been discussed in New Zealand for a
long time, but particularly since the Howard Federal Government
implemented changes in 1996 - starting 12 days after the Tasmanian
shooting - see https://injuryprevention.bmj.com/content/12/6/365
New Zealand had been considering changes ever since, but the
Christchurch shooings on 15 March 2019 led to an initial stage of law
changes on 15 April - see
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_law_in_New_Zealand#Arms_Amendment_Bills_2_and_3_(1999_to_2012)
These were in line with previous proposals, and were passed by 119
votes to 1 - this was not tyranny, but a logical first step following
extensive previous discussions, and a mood from all except one MP to
see something done quickly. Only a small minority argued for delay in
passing that first stage of legislation.
Which means nothing. They are mostly failures at anything but politcis (ie.
mostly lying).
Post by Rich80105
As far as Covid is concerned, the New Zealand approach of going hard
and fast, or 'putting lives first', has seen New Zealand not only
experience lower infection rates than most countries, but also lower
economic damage than many other countries - we now have the luxury of
not having to rush a vaccination programme; even if the alarm in the
referenced article about the efficacy of vaccines is true, we are able
to make choices without needing to combat community infections through
vaccination.
So indeed flat -earthers should beware, and acquant themselves with a
few facts before seeing tyrrany in the western world, or here in New
Zealand, through an incident that demonstrates the danger of
non-compliance with reasonable covid infection prevention precautions.
The danger is not from government, but from extremists who do not
accept reasonable laws
Like whom?
Post by Rich80105
______________________________________________________
John Bowes
2021-04-19 04:33:24 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sun, 18 Apr 2021 14:07:46 -0700 (PDT), John Bowes
Post by John Bowes
Post by Rich80105
Post by George Black
Post by BR
Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 15 Apr 2021 22:19:08 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
http://themostimportantnews.com/we-are-now-entering-full-blown-tyranny-in-the-western-world/
Conspiracy theory or no there is some truth in this.
Our government rushed new gun laws, as soon as it had an excuse to do so.
I do not own a gun and I returned my licence some years ago so I have
no "axe
to grind".
I agree that there is cause for concern that events like the COVID19
pandemic and the March 15 attack on the Chch mosques are used to
justify ill-considered law changes.
The mosques attacks resulted in a revision to gun laws. As someone
who has never and will never own a gun I am not affected personally
and I applaud any measure that works to reduce criminal use of
weapons.
Banning guns does not reduce the criminal use of them.
Bill.
I suppose he wants to pass a law that bans criminals from owning firearms..
Its not clear whether the "he" you are talking about is "undefined" or
Tony or BR or any male politician of the day except David Saunders.
The law does not ban all "guns", but yes those that use guns for
criminal purposes may become criminals through that use of a gun as
well as wheteverother illegal actions they make.
It's YOU. But guess like the gormless Marxist muppet you are you'll deny that
obvious fact. Just as you deny we have a totalitarian government, which is what
Tony was getting at in his original post!
Post by Rich80105
Certainly the number of killings through use of firearms reduced
significantly in Australia following the baning of certain types by
the Howard government many years ago. I do not recall seeing
statistics for New Zealand, but apparently the arrival in New Zealand
of criminals deported from Australia may not have helped the NZ
experience.
Our own home grown criminals have never been adverse to shooting
indiscriminately. Don't blame the Aussie rejects who've been sent back to the
country of their birth because Aussie doesn't want our scum! Do you have a cite
for your senseless claim Aussie gun laws have stopped the crims shooting each
other in Australia? Because it sounds like just another lie from you to support
yet another of your mindless lies!
Post by Rich80105
Post by George Black
And the crims obey it.....
Yes some crims - just not those that do not obey it . . .
No Rich NONE of Labours favoured voter base you moronic fucking idiot!
I have not claimed that "Aussie gun laws have stopped the crims
shooting each other in Australia" - but there is evidence that the
laws reduced deaths from guns. I covered this in my post from
_________________________________
On Thu, 15 Apr 2021 22:19:08 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by John Bowes
http://themostimportantnews.com/we-are-now-entering-full-blown-tyranny-in-the-western-world/
Conspiracy theory or no there is some truth in this.
Even for Canada it is pushing it. From
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1107079/covid19-deaths-by-province-territory-canada/
"Ontario and Quebec have been the most severely affected. COVID-19
continues to pose a serious health threat to Canadians, but there have
been positive signs since the start of 2021, with the number of daily
new cases falling considerably." The differences in infection rates
by province are significant.
Far from "Orwellian", responses to Covid in most countries have been
less restrictive than ideal, and those imposed have often been lifted
too early.
From https://edmontonjournal.com/news/local-news/gracelife-tick-tock
"GraceLife is the ultimate COVID-19 scofflaw, or a paragon of
religious liberty, depending who you ask. The church continued to hold
over-capacity indoor services throughout COVID’s second wave, despite
surging infections and multiple public health orders mandating limits
on in-person worship. Pastor James Coates spent 35 days in remand for
repeatedly refusing to abide by the rules."
We know from New Zealand experience that gathering such as those of
churches can be particularly risky in relation to spreading Covid-19 -
this appears to be wilful flouting of laws rather than tyranny from
the Ontario Government
Post by John Bowes
Our government rushed new gun laws, as soon as it had an excuse to do so.
I do not own a gun and I returned my licence some years ago so I have no "axe
to grind".
Our new gun laws were not a response to Covid, but to the Christchurch
shootings.
I did not say otherwise.
Post by Rich80105
Stronger gun laws have been discussed in New Zealand for a
long time, but particularly since the Howard Federal Government
implemented changes in 1996 - starting 12 days after the Tasmanian
shooting - see https://injuryprevention.bmj.com/content/12/6/365
New Zealand had been considering changes ever since, but the
Christchurch shooings on 15 March 2019 led to an initial stage of law
changes on 15 April - see
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_law_in_New_Zealand#Arms_Amendment_Bills_2_and_3_(1999_to_2012)
These were in line with previous proposals, and were passed by 119
votes to 1 - this was not tyranny, but a logical first step following
extensive previous discussions, and a mood from all except one MP to
see something done quickly. Only a small minority argued for delay in
passing that first stage of legislation.
Which means nothing. They are mostly failures at anything but politcis (ie.
mostly lying).
Post by Rich80105
As far as Covid is concerned, the New Zealand approach of going hard
and fast, or 'putting lives first', has seen New Zealand not only
experience lower infection rates than most countries, but also lower
economic damage than many other countries - we now have the luxury of
not having to rush a vaccination programme; even if the alarm in the
referenced article about the efficacy of vaccines is true, we are able
to make choices without needing to combat community infections through
vaccination.
So indeed flat -earthers should beware, and acquant themselves with a
few facts before seeing tyrrany in the western world, or here in New
Zealand, through an incident that demonstrates the danger of
non-compliance with reasonable covid infection prevention precautions.
The danger is not from government, but from extremists who do not
accept reasonable laws
Like whom?
Post by Rich80105
______________________________________________________
China would be a good example.....Who are extremists who ignore reasonable laws! Or as Keith would tell you technocraps :)

As to Orwellian laws EVERY country dealing with covid have imposed an Orwellian regime right down to calling on the people to spy on the people and Rich bloody well knows it!
James Christophers
2021-04-19 06:14:00 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sun, 18 Apr 2021 14:07:46 -0700 (PDT), John Bowes
Post by John Bowes
Post by Rich80105
Post by George Black
Post by BR
Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 15 Apr 2021 22:19:08 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
http://themostimportantnews.com/we-are-now-entering-full-blown-tyranny-in-the-western-world/
Conspiracy theory or no there is some truth in this.
Our government rushed new gun laws, as soon as it had an excuse to do so.
I do not own a gun and I returned my licence some years ago so I have
no "axe
to grind".
I agree that there is cause for concern that events like the COVID19
pandemic and the March 15 attack on the Chch mosques are used to
justify ill-considered law changes.
The mosques attacks resulted in a revision to gun laws. As someone
who has never and will never own a gun I am not affected personally
and I applaud any measure that works to reduce criminal use of
weapons.
Banning guns does not reduce the criminal use of them.
Bill.
I suppose he wants to pass a law that bans criminals from owning firearms..
Its not clear whether the "he" you are talking about is "undefined" or
Tony or BR or any male politician of the day except David Saunders.
The law does not ban all "guns", but yes those that use guns for
criminal purposes may become criminals through that use of a gun as
well as wheteverother illegal actions they make.
It's YOU. But guess like the gormless Marxist muppet you are you'll deny that
obvious fact. Just as you deny we have a totalitarian government, which is what
Tony was getting at in his original post!
Post by Rich80105
Certainly the number of killings through use of firearms reduced
significantly in Australia following the baning of certain types by
the Howard government many years ago. I do not recall seeing
statistics for New Zealand, but apparently the arrival in New Zealand
of criminals deported from Australia may not have helped the NZ
experience.
Our own home grown criminals have never been adverse to shooting
indiscriminately. Don't blame the Aussie rejects who've been sent back to the
country of their birth because Aussie doesn't want our scum! Do you have a cite
for your senseless claim Aussie gun laws have stopped the crims shooting each
other in Australia? Because it sounds like just another lie from you to support
yet another of your mindless lies!
Post by Rich80105
Post by George Black
And the crims obey it.....
Yes some crims - just not those that do not obey it . . .
No Rich NONE of Labours favoured voter base you moronic fucking idiot!
I have not claimed that "Aussie gun laws have stopped the crims
shooting each other in Australia" - but there is evidence that the
laws reduced deaths from guns. I covered this in my post from
_________________________________
On Thu, 15 Apr 2021 22:19:08 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by John Bowes
http://themostimportantnews.com/we-are-now-entering-full-blown-tyranny-in-the-western-world/
Conspiracy theory or no there is some truth in this.
Even for Canada it is pushing it. From
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1107079/covid19-deaths-by-province-territory-canada/
"Ontario and Quebec have been the most severely affected. COVID-19
continues to pose a serious health threat to Canadians, but there have
been positive signs since the start of 2021, with the number of daily
new cases falling considerably." The differences in infection rates
by province are significant.
Far from "Orwellian", responses to Covid in most countries have been
less restrictive than ideal, and those imposed have often been lifted
too early.
From https://edmontonjournal.com/news/local-news/gracelife-tick-tock
"GraceLife is the ultimate COVID-19 scofflaw, or a paragon of
religious liberty, depending who you ask. The church continued to hold
over-capacity indoor services throughout COVID’s second wave, despite
surging infections and multiple public health orders mandating limits
on in-person worship. Pastor James Coates spent 35 days in remand for
repeatedly refusing to abide by the rules."
We know from New Zealand experience that gathering such as those of
churches can be particularly risky in relation to spreading Covid-19 -
this appears to be wilful flouting of laws rather than tyranny from
the Ontario Government
Post by John Bowes
Our government rushed new gun laws, as soon as it had an excuse to do so.
I do not own a gun and I returned my licence some years ago so I have no "axe
to grind".
Our new gun laws were not a response to Covid, but to the Christchurch
shootings.
I did not say otherwise.
Post by Rich80105
Stronger gun laws have been discussed in New Zealand for a
long time, but particularly since the Howard Federal Government
implemented changes in 1996 - starting 12 days after the Tasmanian
shooting - see https://injuryprevention.bmj.com/content/12/6/365
New Zealand had been considering changes ever since, but the
Christchurch shooings on 15 March 2019 led to an initial stage of law
changes on 15 April - see
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_law_in_New_Zealand#Arms_Amendment_Bills_2_and_3_(1999_to_2012)
These were in line with previous proposals, and were passed by 119
votes to 1 - this was not tyranny, but a logical first step following
extensive previous discussions, and a mood from all except one MP to
see something done quickly. Only a small minority argued for delay in
passing that first stage of legislation.
Which means nothing. They are mostly failures at anything but politcis (ie.
mostly lying).
Post by Rich80105
As far as Covid is concerned, the New Zealand approach of going hard
and fast, or 'putting lives first', has seen New Zealand not only
experience lower infection rates than most countries, but also lower
economic damage than many other countries - we now have the luxury of
not having to rush a vaccination programme; even if the alarm in the
referenced article about the efficacy of vaccines is true, we are able
to make choices without needing to combat community infections through
vaccination.
So indeed flat -earthers should beware, and acquant themselves with a
few facts before seeing tyrrany in the western world, or here in New
Zealand, through an incident that demonstrates the danger of
non-compliance with reasonable covid infection prevention precautions.
The danger is not from government, but from extremists who do not
accept reasonable laws
Like whom?
(Like who?)

Mainly paranoiacs and congenital recalcitrants whose God-given mutuality characterises their persecution complexes.

Quos deus vult perdere prius dementat.
Tony
2021-04-19 06:53:25 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sun, 18 Apr 2021 14:07:46 -0700 (PDT), John Bowes
Post by John Bowes
Post by Rich80105
Post by George Black
Post by BR
Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 15 Apr 2021 22:19:08 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Tony
http://themostimportantnews.com/we-are-now-entering-full-blown-tyranny-in-the-western-world/
Conspiracy theory or no there is some truth in this.
Our government rushed new gun laws, as soon as it had an excuse to
do
so.
I do not own a gun and I returned my licence some years ago so I have
no "axe
to grind".
I agree that there is cause for concern that events like the COVID19
pandemic and the March 15 attack on the Chch mosques are used to
justify ill-considered law changes.
The mosques attacks resulted in a revision to gun laws. As someone
who has never and will never own a gun I am not affected personally
and I applaud any measure that works to reduce criminal use of
weapons.
Banning guns does not reduce the criminal use of them.
Bill.
I suppose he wants to pass a law that bans criminals from owning firearms..
Its not clear whether the "he" you are talking about is "undefined" or
Tony or BR or any male politician of the day except David Saunders.
The law does not ban all "guns", but yes those that use guns for
criminal purposes may become criminals through that use of a gun as
well as wheteverother illegal actions they make.
It's YOU. But guess like the gormless Marxist muppet you are you'll deny that
obvious fact. Just as you deny we have a totalitarian government, which is what
Tony was getting at in his original post!
Post by Rich80105
Certainly the number of killings through use of firearms reduced
significantly in Australia following the baning of certain types by
the Howard government many years ago. I do not recall seeing
statistics for New Zealand, but apparently the arrival in New Zealand
of criminals deported from Australia may not have helped the NZ
experience.
Our own home grown criminals have never been adverse to shooting
indiscriminately. Don't blame the Aussie rejects who've been sent back to the
country of their birth because Aussie doesn't want our scum! Do you have a cite
for your senseless claim Aussie gun laws have stopped the crims shooting each
other in Australia? Because it sounds like just another lie from you to support
yet another of your mindless lies!
Post by Rich80105
Post by George Black
And the crims obey it.....
Yes some crims - just not those that do not obey it . . .
No Rich NONE of Labours favoured voter base you moronic fucking idiot!
I have not claimed that "Aussie gun laws have stopped the crims
shooting each other in Australia" - but there is evidence that the
laws reduced deaths from guns. I covered this in my post from
_________________________________
On Thu, 15 Apr 2021 22:19:08 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by John Bowes
Post by Rich80105
Post by George Black
http://themostimportantnews.com/we-are-now-entering-full-blown-tyranny-in-the-western-world/
Conspiracy theory or no there is some truth in this.
Even for Canada it is pushing it. From
Post by John Bowes
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1107079/covid19-deaths-by-province-territory-canada/
"Ontario and Quebec have been the most severely affected. COVID-19
continues to pose a serious health threat to Canadians, but there have
been positive signs since the start of 2021, with the number of daily
new cases falling considerably." The differences in infection rates
by province are significant.
Far from "Orwellian", responses to Covid in most countries have been
less restrictive than ideal, and those imposed have often been lifted
too early.
From https://edmontonjournal.com/news/local-news/gracelife-tick-tock
"GraceLife is the ultimate COVID-19 scofflaw, or a paragon of
religious liberty, depending who you ask. The church continued to hold
over-capacity indoor services throughout COVID’s second wave, despite
surging infections and multiple public health orders mandating limits
on in-person worship. Pastor James Coates spent 35 days in remand for
repeatedly refusing to abide by the rules."
We know from New Zealand experience that gathering such as those of
churches can be particularly risky in relation to spreading Covid-19 -
this appears to be wilful flouting of laws rather than tyranny from
the Ontario Government
Post by John Bowes
Our government rushed new gun laws, as soon as it had an excuse to do so.
I do not own a gun and I returned my licence some years ago so I have no "axe
to grind".
Our new gun laws were not a response to Covid, but to the Christchurch
shootings.
I did not say otherwise.
Post by Rich80105
Stronger gun laws have been discussed in New Zealand for a
long time, but particularly since the Howard Federal Government
implemented changes in 1996 - starting 12 days after the Tasmanian
shooting - see https://injuryprevention.bmj.com/content/12/6/365
New Zealand had been considering changes ever since, but the
Christchurch shooings on 15 March 2019 led to an initial stage of law
changes on 15 April - see
Post by John Bowes
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_law_in_New_Zealand#Arms_Amendment_Bills_2_and_3_(1999_to_2012)
These were in line with previous proposals, and were passed by 119
votes to 1 - this was not tyranny, but a logical first step following
extensive previous discussions, and a mood from all except one MP to
see something done quickly. Only a small minority argued for delay in
passing that first stage of legislation.
Which means nothing. They are mostly failures at anything but politcis (ie.
mostly lying).
Post by Rich80105
As far as Covid is concerned, the New Zealand approach of going hard
and fast, or 'putting lives first', has seen New Zealand not only
experience lower infection rates than most countries, but also lower
economic damage than many other countries - we now have the luxury of
not having to rush a vaccination programme; even if the alarm in the
referenced article about the efficacy of vaccines is true, we are able
to make choices without needing to combat community infections through
vaccination.
So indeed flat -earthers should beware, and acquant themselves with a
few facts before seeing tyrrany in the western world, or here in New
Zealand, through an incident that demonstrates the danger of
non-compliance with reasonable covid infection prevention precautions.
The danger is not from government, but from extremists who do not
accept reasonable laws
Like whom?
Mainly paranoiacs and congenital recalcitrants whose God-given mutuality
characterises their persecution complexes.
Quos deus vult perdere prius dementat.
Indeed, Rich to a T
Rich80105
2021-04-19 08:21:44 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Sun, 18 Apr 2021 23:14:00 -0700 (PDT), James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sun, 18 Apr 2021 14:07:46 -0700 (PDT), John Bowes
Post by John Bowes
Post by Rich80105
Post by George Black
Post by BR
Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 15 Apr 2021 22:19:08 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
http://themostimportantnews.com/we-are-now-entering-full-blown-tyranny-in-the-western-world/
Conspiracy theory or no there is some truth in this.
Our government rushed new gun laws, as soon as it had an excuse to do
so.
I do not own a gun and I returned my licence some years ago so I have
no "axe
to grind".
I agree that there is cause for concern that events like the COVID19
pandemic and the March 15 attack on the Chch mosques are used to
justify ill-considered law changes.
The mosques attacks resulted in a revision to gun laws. As someone
who has never and will never own a gun I am not affected personally
and I applaud any measure that works to reduce criminal use of
weapons.
Banning guns does not reduce the criminal use of them.
Bill.
I suppose he wants to pass a law that bans criminals from owning firearms..
Its not clear whether the "he" you are talking about is "undefined" or
Tony or BR or any male politician of the day except David Saunders.
The law does not ban all "guns", but yes those that use guns for
criminal purposes may become criminals through that use of a gun as
well as wheteverother illegal actions they make.
It's YOU. But guess like the gormless Marxist muppet you are you'll deny that
obvious fact. Just as you deny we have a totalitarian government, which is what
Tony was getting at in his original post!
Post by Rich80105
Certainly the number of killings through use of firearms reduced
significantly in Australia following the baning of certain types by
the Howard government many years ago. I do not recall seeing
statistics for New Zealand, but apparently the arrival in New Zealand
of criminals deported from Australia may not have helped the NZ
experience.
Our own home grown criminals have never been adverse to shooting
indiscriminately. Don't blame the Aussie rejects who've been sent back to the
country of their birth because Aussie doesn't want our scum! Do you have a cite
for your senseless claim Aussie gun laws have stopped the crims shooting each
other in Australia? Because it sounds like just another lie from you to support
yet another of your mindless lies!
Post by Rich80105
Post by George Black
And the crims obey it.....
Yes some crims - just not those that do not obey it . . .
No Rich NONE of Labours favoured voter base you moronic fucking idiot!
I have not claimed that "Aussie gun laws have stopped the crims
shooting each other in Australia" - but there is evidence that the
laws reduced deaths from guns. I covered this in my post from
_________________________________
On Thu, 15 Apr 2021 22:19:08 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by John Bowes
http://themostimportantnews.com/we-are-now-entering-full-blown-tyranny-in-the-western-world/
Conspiracy theory or no there is some truth in this.
Even for Canada it is pushing it. From
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1107079/covid19-deaths-by-province-territory-canada/
"Ontario and Quebec have been the most severely affected. COVID-19
continues to pose a serious health threat to Canadians, but there have
been positive signs since the start of 2021, with the number of daily
new cases falling considerably." The differences in infection rates
by province are significant.
Far from "Orwellian", responses to Covid in most countries have been
less restrictive than ideal, and those imposed have often been lifted
too early.
From https://edmontonjournal.com/news/local-news/gracelife-tick-tock
"GraceLife is the ultimate COVID-19 scofflaw, or a paragon of
religious liberty, depending who you ask. The church continued to hold
over-capacity indoor services throughout COVID’s second wave, despite
surging infections and multiple public health orders mandating limits
on in-person worship. Pastor James Coates spent 35 days in remand for
repeatedly refusing to abide by the rules."
We know from New Zealand experience that gathering such as those of
churches can be particularly risky in relation to spreading Covid-19 -
this appears to be wilful flouting of laws rather than tyranny from
the Ontario Government
Post by John Bowes
Our government rushed new gun laws, as soon as it had an excuse to do so.
I do not own a gun and I returned my licence some years ago so I have no "axe
to grind".
Our new gun laws were not a response to Covid, but to the Christchurch
shootings.
I did not say otherwise.
Post by Rich80105
Stronger gun laws have been discussed in New Zealand for a
long time, but particularly since the Howard Federal Government
implemented changes in 1996 - starting 12 days after the Tasmanian
shooting - see https://injuryprevention.bmj.com/content/12/6/365
New Zealand had been considering changes ever since, but the
Christchurch shooings on 15 March 2019 led to an initial stage of law
changes on 15 April - see
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_law_in_New_Zealand#Arms_Amendment_Bills_2_and_3_(1999_to_2012)
These were in line with previous proposals, and were passed by 119
votes to 1 - this was not tyranny, but a logical first step following
extensive previous discussions, and a mood from all except one MP to
see something done quickly. Only a small minority argued for delay in
passing that first stage of legislation.
Which means nothing. They are mostly failures at anything but politcis (ie.
mostly lying).
Post by Rich80105
As far as Covid is concerned, the New Zealand approach of going hard
and fast, or 'putting lives first', has seen New Zealand not only
experience lower infection rates than most countries, but also lower
economic damage than many other countries - we now have the luxury of
not having to rush a vaccination programme; even if the alarm in the
referenced article about the efficacy of vaccines is true, we are able
to make choices without needing to combat community infections through
vaccination.
So indeed flat -earthers should beware, and acquant themselves with a
few facts before seeing tyrrany in the western world, or here in New
Zealand, through an incident that demonstrates the danger of
non-compliance with reasonable covid infection prevention precautions.
The danger is not from government, but from extremists who do not
accept reasonable laws
Like whom?
(Like who?)
Mainly paranoiacs and congenital recalcitrants whose God-given mutuality characterises their persecution complexes.
Quos deus vult perdere prius dementat.
Very good :) . . . "The church continued to hold over-capacity
indoor services throughout COVID’s second wave, despite surging
infections and multiple public health orders mandating limits on
in-person worship. Pastor James Coates spent 35 days in remand for
repeatedly refusing to abide by the rules."

Doubtless Tony sympathises with the Church . . .
Tony
2021-04-19 20:04:56 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Sun, 18 Apr 2021 23:14:00 -0700 (PDT), James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sun, 18 Apr 2021 14:07:46 -0700 (PDT), John Bowes
Post by John Bowes
Post by Rich80105
Post by George Black
On Sun, 18 Apr 2021 10:21:02 +1200, Crash
Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 15 Apr 2021 22:19:08 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Tony
http://themostimportantnews.com/we-are-now-entering-full-blown-tyranny-in-the-western-world/
Conspiracy theory or no there is some truth in this.
Our government rushed new gun laws, as soon as it had an excuse to do
so.
I do not own a gun and I returned my licence some years ago so I have
no "axe
to grind".
I agree that there is cause for concern that events like the COVID19
pandemic and the March 15 attack on the Chch mosques are used to
justify ill-considered law changes.
The mosques attacks resulted in a revision to gun laws. As someone
who has never and will never own a gun I am not affected personally
and I applaud any measure that works to reduce criminal use of
weapons.
Banning guns does not reduce the criminal use of them.
Bill.
I suppose he wants to pass a law that bans criminals from owning firearms..
Its not clear whether the "he" you are talking about is "undefined" or
Tony or BR or any male politician of the day except David Saunders.
The law does not ban all "guns", but yes those that use guns for
criminal purposes may become criminals through that use of a gun as
well as wheteverother illegal actions they make.
It's YOU. But guess like the gormless Marxist muppet you are you'll deny that
obvious fact. Just as you deny we have a totalitarian government, which is what
Tony was getting at in his original post!
Post by Rich80105
Certainly the number of killings through use of firearms reduced
significantly in Australia following the baning of certain types by
the Howard government many years ago. I do not recall seeing
statistics for New Zealand, but apparently the arrival in New Zealand
of criminals deported from Australia may not have helped the NZ
experience.
Our own home grown criminals have never been adverse to shooting
indiscriminately. Don't blame the Aussie rejects who've been sent back to the
country of their birth because Aussie doesn't want our scum! Do you have a cite
for your senseless claim Aussie gun laws have stopped the crims shooting each
other in Australia? Because it sounds like just another lie from you to support
yet another of your mindless lies!
Post by Rich80105
Post by George Black
And the crims obey it.....
Yes some crims - just not those that do not obey it . . .
No Rich NONE of Labours favoured voter base you moronic fucking idiot!
I have not claimed that "Aussie gun laws have stopped the crims
shooting each other in Australia" - but there is evidence that the
laws reduced deaths from guns. I covered this in my post from
_________________________________
On Thu, 15 Apr 2021 22:19:08 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by John Bowes
Post by Rich80105
Post by George Black
http://themostimportantnews.com/we-are-now-entering-full-blown-tyranny-in-the-western-world/
Conspiracy theory or no there is some truth in this.
Even for Canada it is pushing it. From
Post by John Bowes
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1107079/covid19-deaths-by-province-territory-canada/
"Ontario and Quebec have been the most severely affected. COVID-19
continues to pose a serious health threat to Canadians, but there have
been positive signs since the start of 2021, with the number of daily
new cases falling considerably." The differences in infection rates
by province are significant.
Far from "Orwellian", responses to Covid in most countries have been
less restrictive than ideal, and those imposed have often been lifted
too early.
From https://edmontonjournal.com/news/local-news/gracelife-tick-tock
"GraceLife is the ultimate COVID-19 scofflaw, or a paragon of
religious liberty, depending who you ask. The church continued to hold
over-capacity indoor services throughout COVID’s second wave, despite
surging infections and multiple public health orders mandating limits
on in-person worship. Pastor James Coates spent 35 days in remand for
repeatedly refusing to abide by the rules."
We know from New Zealand experience that gathering such as those of
churches can be particularly risky in relation to spreading Covid-19 -
this appears to be wilful flouting of laws rather than tyranny from
the Ontario Government
Post by John Bowes
Our government rushed new gun laws, as soon as it had an excuse to do so.
I do not own a gun and I returned my licence some years ago so I have no "axe
to grind".
Our new gun laws were not a response to Covid, but to the Christchurch
shootings.
I did not say otherwise.
Post by Rich80105
Stronger gun laws have been discussed in New Zealand for a
long time, but particularly since the Howard Federal Government
implemented changes in 1996 - starting 12 days after the Tasmanian
shooting - see https://injuryprevention.bmj.com/content/12/6/365
New Zealand had been considering changes ever since, but the
Christchurch shooings on 15 March 2019 led to an initial stage of law
changes on 15 April - see
Post by John Bowes
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_law_in_New_Zealand#Arms_Amendment_Bills_2_and_3_(1999_to_2012)
These were in line with previous proposals, and were passed by 119
votes to 1 - this was not tyranny, but a logical first step following
extensive previous discussions, and a mood from all except one MP to
see something done quickly. Only a small minority argued for delay in
passing that first stage of legislation.
Which means nothing. They are mostly failures at anything but politcis (ie.
mostly lying).
Post by Rich80105
As far as Covid is concerned, the New Zealand approach of going hard
and fast, or 'putting lives first', has seen New Zealand not only
experience lower infection rates than most countries, but also lower
economic damage than many other countries - we now have the luxury of
not having to rush a vaccination programme; even if the alarm in the
referenced article about the efficacy of vaccines is true, we are able
to make choices without needing to combat community infections through
vaccination.
So indeed flat -earthers should beware, and acquant themselves with a
few facts before seeing tyrrany in the western world, or here in New
Zealand, through an incident that demonstrates the danger of
non-compliance with reasonable covid infection prevention precautions.
The danger is not from government, but from extremists who do not
accept reasonable laws
Like whom?
(Like who?)
Mainly paranoiacs and congenital recalcitrants whose God-given mutuality
characterises their persecution complexes.
Quos deus vult perdere prius dementat.
Very good :) . . . "The church continued to hold over-capacity
indoor services throughout COVID’s second wave, despite surging
infections and multiple public health orders mandating limits on
in-person worship. Pastor James Coates spent 35 days in remand for
repeatedly refusing to abide by the rules."
Doubtless Tony sympathises with the Church . . .
Doubtless you haven't a clue.
And I note you have not tried to defend the lies you wrote in your last bit of
nonsense in this thread. Doubtless you cannot.
Rich80105
2021-04-19 20:39:36 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Mon, 19 Apr 2021 15:04:56 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sun, 18 Apr 2021 23:14:00 -0700 (PDT), James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sun, 18 Apr 2021 14:07:46 -0700 (PDT), John Bowes
Post by John Bowes
Post by Rich80105
Post by George Black
On Sun, 18 Apr 2021 10:21:02 +1200, Crash
Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 15 Apr 2021 22:19:08 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Tony
http://themostimportantnews.com/we-are-now-entering-full-blown-tyranny-in-the-western-world/
Conspiracy theory or no there is some truth in this.
Our government rushed new gun laws, as soon as it had an excuse to
do
so.
I do not own a gun and I returned my licence some years ago so I
have
no "axe
to grind".
I agree that there is cause for concern that events like the COVID19
pandemic and the March 15 attack on the Chch mosques are used to
justify ill-considered law changes.
The mosques attacks resulted in a revision to gun laws. As someone
who has never and will never own a gun I am not affected personally
and I applaud any measure that works to reduce criminal use of
weapons.
Banning guns does not reduce the criminal use of them.
Bill.
I suppose he wants to pass a law that bans criminals from owning firearms..
Its not clear whether the "he" you are talking about is "undefined" or
Tony or BR or any male politician of the day except David Saunders.
The law does not ban all "guns", but yes those that use guns for
criminal purposes may become criminals through that use of a gun as
well as wheteverother illegal actions they make.
It's YOU. But guess like the gormless Marxist muppet you are you'll deny that
obvious fact. Just as you deny we have a totalitarian government, which is what
Tony was getting at in his original post!
Post by Rich80105
Certainly the number of killings through use of firearms reduced
significantly in Australia following the baning of certain types by
the Howard government many years ago. I do not recall seeing
statistics for New Zealand, but apparently the arrival in New Zealand
of criminals deported from Australia may not have helped the NZ
experience.
Our own home grown criminals have never been adverse to shooting
indiscriminately. Don't blame the Aussie rejects who've been sent back to the
country of their birth because Aussie doesn't want our scum! Do you have a cite
for your senseless claim Aussie gun laws have stopped the crims shooting each
other in Australia? Because it sounds like just another lie from you to support
yet another of your mindless lies!
Post by Rich80105
Post by George Black
And the crims obey it.....
Yes some crims - just not those that do not obey it . . .
No Rich NONE of Labours favoured voter base you moronic fucking idiot!
I have not claimed that "Aussie gun laws have stopped the crims
shooting each other in Australia" - but there is evidence that the
laws reduced deaths from guns. I covered this in my post from
_________________________________
On Thu, 15 Apr 2021 22:19:08 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by John Bowes
Post by Rich80105
Post by George Black
http://themostimportantnews.com/we-are-now-entering-full-blown-tyranny-in-the-western-world/
Conspiracy theory or no there is some truth in this.
Even for Canada it is pushing it. From
Post by John Bowes
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1107079/covid19-deaths-by-province-territory-canada/
"Ontario and Quebec have been the most severely affected. COVID-19
continues to pose a serious health threat to Canadians, but there have
been positive signs since the start of 2021, with the number of daily
new cases falling considerably." The differences in infection rates
by province are significant.
Far from "Orwellian", responses to Covid in most countries have been
less restrictive than ideal, and those imposed have often been lifted
too early.
From https://edmontonjournal.com/news/local-news/gracelife-tick-tock
"GraceLife is the ultimate COVID-19 scofflaw, or a paragon of
religious liberty, depending who you ask. The church continued to hold
over-capacity indoor services throughout COVID’s second wave, despite
surging infections and multiple public health orders mandating limits
on in-person worship. Pastor James Coates spent 35 days in remand for
repeatedly refusing to abide by the rules."
We know from New Zealand experience that gathering such as those of
churches can be particularly risky in relation to spreading Covid-19 -
this appears to be wilful flouting of laws rather than tyranny from
the Ontario Government
Post by John Bowes
Our government rushed new gun laws, as soon as it had an excuse to do so.
I do not own a gun and I returned my licence some years ago so I have no "axe
to grind".
Our new gun laws were not a response to Covid, but to the Christchurch
shootings.
I did not say otherwise.
Post by Rich80105
Stronger gun laws have been discussed in New Zealand for a
long time, but particularly since the Howard Federal Government
implemented changes in 1996 - starting 12 days after the Tasmanian
shooting - see https://injuryprevention.bmj.com/content/12/6/365
New Zealand had been considering changes ever since, but the
Christchurch shooings on 15 March 2019 led to an initial stage of law
changes on 15 April - see
Post by John Bowes
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_law_in_New_Zealand#Arms_Amendment_Bills_2_and_3_(1999_to_2012)
These were in line with previous proposals, and were passed by 119
votes to 1 - this was not tyranny, but a logical first step following
extensive previous discussions, and a mood from all except one MP to
see something done quickly. Only a small minority argued for delay in
passing that first stage of legislation.
Which means nothing. They are mostly failures at anything but politcis (ie.
mostly lying).
Post by Rich80105
As far as Covid is concerned, the New Zealand approach of going hard
and fast, or 'putting lives first', has seen New Zealand not only
experience lower infection rates than most countries, but also lower
economic damage than many other countries - we now have the luxury of
not having to rush a vaccination programme; even if the alarm in the
referenced article about the efficacy of vaccines is true, we are able
to make choices without needing to combat community infections through
vaccination.
So indeed flat -earthers should beware, and acquant themselves with a
few facts before seeing tyrrany in the western world, or here in New
Zealand, through an incident that demonstrates the danger of
non-compliance with reasonable covid infection prevention precautions.
The danger is not from government, but from extremists who do not
accept reasonable laws
Like whom?
(Like who?)
Mainly paranoiacs and congenital recalcitrants whose God-given mutuality
characterises their persecution complexes.
Quos deus vult perdere prius dementat.
Very good :) . . . "The church continued to hold over-capacity
indoor services throughout COVID’s second wave, despite surging
infections and multiple public health orders mandating limits on
in-person worship. Pastor James Coates spent 35 days in remand for
repeatedly refusing to abide by the rules."
Doubtless Tony sympathises with the Church . . .
Doubtless you haven't a clue.
Doubtless that is just more of your flat-earther logic - when in doubt
or unable to honestly respond, blindly attack.
Post by Tony
And I note you have not tried to defend the lies you wrote in your last bit of
nonsense in this thread. Doubtless you cannot.
There we have the toddler response again - if you want to accuse
anyone of lying, you need to do better than that, Tony - identify the
statement that you believe is a lie . . .
John Bowes
2021-04-19 22:25:12 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 19 Apr 2021 15:04:56 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sun, 18 Apr 2021 23:14:00 -0700 (PDT), James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sun, 18 Apr 2021 14:07:46 -0700 (PDT), John Bowes
Post by John Bowes
Post by Rich80105
Post by George Black
On Sun, 18 Apr 2021 10:21:02 +1200, Crash
Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 15 Apr 2021 22:19:08 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot
net
Post by Tony
Post by Tony
http://themostimportantnews.com/we-are-now-entering-full-blown-tyranny-in-the-western-world/
Conspiracy theory or no there is some truth in this.
Our government rushed new gun laws, as soon as it had an excuse to
do
so.
I do not own a gun and I returned my licence some years ago so I
have
no "axe
to grind".
I agree that there is cause for concern that events like the
COVID19
pandemic and the March 15 attack on the Chch mosques are used to
justify ill-considered law changes.
The mosques attacks resulted in a revision to gun laws. As someone
who has never and will never own a gun I am not affected personally
and I applaud any measure that works to reduce criminal use of
weapons.
Banning guns does not reduce the criminal use of them.
Bill.
I suppose he wants to pass a law that bans criminals from owning
firearms..
Its not clear whether the "he" you are talking about is "undefined" or
Tony or BR or any male politician of the day except David Saunders.
The law does not ban all "guns", but yes those that use guns for
criminal purposes may become criminals through that use of a gun as
well as wheteverother illegal actions they make.
It's YOU. But guess like the gormless Marxist muppet you are you'll deny that
obvious fact. Just as you deny we have a totalitarian government, which
is what
Tony was getting at in his original post!
Post by Rich80105
Certainly the number of killings through use of firearms reduced
significantly in Australia following the baning of certain types by
the Howard government many years ago. I do not recall seeing
statistics for New Zealand, but apparently the arrival in New Zealand
of criminals deported from Australia may not have helped the NZ
experience.
Our own home grown criminals have never been adverse to shooting
indiscriminately. Don't blame the Aussie rejects who've been sent back to the
country of their birth because Aussie doesn't want our scum! Do you have
a cite
for your senseless claim Aussie gun laws have stopped the crims shooting each
other in Australia? Because it sounds like just another lie from you to
support
yet another of your mindless lies!
Post by Rich80105
Post by George Black
And the crims obey it.....
Yes some crims - just not those that do not obey it . . .
No Rich NONE of Labours favoured voter base you moronic fucking idiot!
I have not claimed that "Aussie gun laws have stopped the crims
shooting each other in Australia" - but there is evidence that the
laws reduced deaths from guns. I covered this in my post from
_________________________________
On Thu, 15 Apr 2021 22:19:08 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by John Bowes
Post by Rich80105
Post by George Black
http://themostimportantnews.com/we-are-now-entering-full-blown-tyranny-in-the-western-world/
Conspiracy theory or no there is some truth in this.
Even for Canada it is pushing it. From
Post by John Bowes
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1107079/covid19-deaths-by-province-territory-canada/
"Ontario and Quebec have been the most severely affected. COVID-19
continues to pose a serious health threat to Canadians, but there have
been positive signs since the start of 2021, with the number of daily
new cases falling considerably." The differences in infection rates
by province are significant.
Far from "Orwellian", responses to Covid in most countries have been
less restrictive than ideal, and those imposed have often been lifted
too early.
From https://edmontonjournal.com/news/local-news/gracelife-tick-tock
"GraceLife is the ultimate COVID-19 scofflaw, or a paragon of
religious liberty, depending who you ask. The church continued to hold
over-capacity indoor services throughout COVID’s second wave, despite
surging infections and multiple public health orders mandating limits
on in-person worship. Pastor James Coates spent 35 days in remand for
repeatedly refusing to abide by the rules."
We know from New Zealand experience that gathering such as those of
churches can be particularly risky in relation to spreading Covid-19 -
this appears to be wilful flouting of laws rather than tyranny from
the Ontario Government
Post by John Bowes
Our government rushed new gun laws, as soon as it had an excuse to do so.
I do not own a gun and I returned my licence some years ago so I have no "axe
to grind".
Our new gun laws were not a response to Covid, but to the Christchurch
shootings.
I did not say otherwise.
Post by Rich80105
Stronger gun laws have been discussed in New Zealand for a
long time, but particularly since the Howard Federal Government
implemented changes in 1996 - starting 12 days after the Tasmanian
shooting - see https://injuryprevention.bmj.com/content/12/6/365
New Zealand had been considering changes ever since, but the
Christchurch shooings on 15 March 2019 led to an initial stage of law
changes on 15 April - see
Post by John Bowes
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_law_in_New_Zealand#Arms_Amendment_Bills_2_and_3_(1999_to_2012)
These were in line with previous proposals, and were passed by 119
votes to 1 - this was not tyranny, but a logical first step following
extensive previous discussions, and a mood from all except one MP to
see something done quickly. Only a small minority argued for delay in
passing that first stage of legislation.
Which means nothing. They are mostly failures at anything but politcis (ie.
mostly lying).
Post by Rich80105
As far as Covid is concerned, the New Zealand approach of going hard
and fast, or 'putting lives first', has seen New Zealand not only
experience lower infection rates than most countries, but also lower
economic damage than many other countries - we now have the luxury of
not having to rush a vaccination programme; even if the alarm in the
referenced article about the efficacy of vaccines is true, we are able
to make choices without needing to combat community infections through
vaccination.
So indeed flat -earthers should beware, and acquant themselves with a
few facts before seeing tyrrany in the western world, or here in New
Zealand, through an incident that demonstrates the danger of
non-compliance with reasonable covid infection prevention precautions.
The danger is not from government, but from extremists who do not
accept reasonable laws
Like whom?
(Like who?)
Mainly paranoiacs and congenital recalcitrants whose God-given mutuality
characterises their persecution complexes.
Quos deus vult perdere prius dementat.
Very good :) . . . "The church continued to hold over-capacity
indoor services throughout COVID’s second wave, despite surging
infections and multiple public health orders mandating limits on
in-person worship. Pastor James Coates spent 35 days in remand for
repeatedly refusing to abide by the rules."
Doubtless Tony sympathises with the Church . . .
Doubtless you haven't a clue.
Doubtless that is just more of your flat-earther logic - when in doubt
or unable to honestly respond, blindly attack.
Wrong yet again Rich! It is YOU who use that policy on an almost daily basis. Much like your lying!
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
And I note you have not tried to defend the lies you wrote in your last bit of
nonsense in this thread. Doubtless you cannot.
There we have the toddler response again - if you want to accuse
anyone of lying, you need to do better than that, Tony - identify the
statement that you believe is a lie . . .
Wrong again Rich and you bloody well know it. Once again you fail to practice what you preach!
Identify the lie? ALL your statements are lies Rich!
Tony
2021-04-20 01:44:14 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 19 Apr 2021 15:04:56 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sun, 18 Apr 2021 23:14:00 -0700 (PDT), James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sun, 18 Apr 2021 14:07:46 -0700 (PDT), John Bowes
Post by John Bowes
Post by Rich80105
Post by George Black
On Sun, 18 Apr 2021 10:21:02 +1200, Crash
Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 15 Apr 2021 22:19:08 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot
net
Post by Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Tony
http://themostimportantnews.com/we-are-now-entering-full-blown-tyranny-in-the-western-world/
Conspiracy theory or no there is some truth in this.
Our government rushed new gun laws, as soon as it had an excuse to
do
so.
I do not own a gun and I returned my licence some years ago so I
have
no "axe
to grind".
I agree that there is cause for concern that events like the COVID19
pandemic and the March 15 attack on the Chch mosques are used to
justify ill-considered law changes.
The mosques attacks resulted in a revision to gun laws. As someone
who has never and will never own a gun I am not affected personally
and I applaud any measure that works to reduce criminal use of
weapons.
Banning guns does not reduce the criminal use of them.
Bill.
I suppose he wants to pass a law that bans criminals from owning
firearms..
Its not clear whether the "he" you are talking about is "undefined" or
Tony or BR or any male politician of the day except David Saunders.
The law does not ban all "guns", but yes those that use guns for
criminal purposes may become criminals through that use of a gun as
well as wheteverother illegal actions they make.
It's YOU. But guess like the gormless Marxist muppet you are you'll
deny
that
obvious fact. Just as you deny we have a totalitarian government, which is what
Tony was getting at in his original post!
Post by Rich80105
Certainly the number of killings through use of firearms reduced
significantly in Australia following the baning of certain types by
the Howard government many years ago. I do not recall seeing
statistics for New Zealand, but apparently the arrival in New Zealand
of criminals deported from Australia may not have helped the NZ
experience.
Our own home grown criminals have never been adverse to shooting
indiscriminately. Don't blame the Aussie rejects who've been sent back
to
the
country of their birth because Aussie doesn't want our scum! Do you
have
a cite
for your senseless claim Aussie gun laws have stopped the crims
shooting
each
other in Australia? Because it sounds like just another lie from you to support
yet another of your mindless lies!
Post by Rich80105
Post by George Black
And the crims obey it.....
Yes some crims - just not those that do not obey it . . .
No Rich NONE of Labours favoured voter base you moronic fucking idiot!
I have not claimed that "Aussie gun laws have stopped the crims
shooting each other in Australia" - but there is evidence that the
laws reduced deaths from guns. I covered this in my post from
_________________________________
On Thu, 15 Apr 2021 22:19:08 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by John Bowes
Post by Rich80105
Post by George Black
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Tony
http://themostimportantnews.com/we-are-now-entering-full-blown-tyranny-in-the-western-world/
Conspiracy theory or no there is some truth in this.
Even for Canada it is pushing it. From
Post by John Bowes
Post by Rich80105
Post by George Black
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1107079/covid19-deaths-by-province-territory-canada/
"Ontario and Quebec have been the most severely affected. COVID-19
continues to pose a serious health threat to Canadians, but there have
been positive signs since the start of 2021, with the number of daily
new cases falling considerably." The differences in infection rates
by province are significant.
Far from "Orwellian", responses to Covid in most countries have been
less restrictive than ideal, and those imposed have often been lifted
too early.
From https://edmontonjournal.com/news/local-news/gracelife-tick-tock
"GraceLife is the ultimate COVID-19 scofflaw, or a paragon of
religious liberty, depending who you ask. The church continued to hold
over-capacity indoor services throughout COVID’s second wave, despite
surging infections and multiple public health orders mandating limits
on in-person worship. Pastor James Coates spent 35 days in remand for
repeatedly refusing to abide by the rules."
We know from New Zealand experience that gathering such as those of
churches can be particularly risky in relation to spreading Covid-19 -
this appears to be wilful flouting of laws rather than tyranny from
the Ontario Government
Post by John Bowes
Our government rushed new gun laws, as soon as it had an excuse to do so.
I do not own a gun and I returned my licence some years ago so I have
no
"axe
to grind".
Our new gun laws were not a response to Covid, but to the Christchurch
shootings.
I did not say otherwise.
Post by Rich80105
Stronger gun laws have been discussed in New Zealand for a
long time, but particularly since the Howard Federal Government
implemented changes in 1996 - starting 12 days after the Tasmanian
shooting - see https://injuryprevention.bmj.com/content/12/6/365
New Zealand had been considering changes ever since, but the
Christchurch shooings on 15 March 2019 led to an initial stage of law
changes on 15 April - see
Post by John Bowes
Post by Rich80105
Post by George Black
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_law_in_New_Zealand#Arms_Amendment_Bills_2_and_3_(1999_to_2012)
These were in line with previous proposals, and were passed by 119
votes to 1 - this was not tyranny, but a logical first step following
extensive previous discussions, and a mood from all except one MP to
see something done quickly. Only a small minority argued for delay in
passing that first stage of legislation.
Which means nothing. They are mostly failures at anything but politcis (ie.
mostly lying).
Post by Rich80105
As far as Covid is concerned, the New Zealand approach of going hard
and fast, or 'putting lives first', has seen New Zealand not only
experience lower infection rates than most countries, but also lower
economic damage than many other countries - we now have the luxury of
not having to rush a vaccination programme; even if the alarm in the
referenced article about the efficacy of vaccines is true, we are able
to make choices without needing to combat community infections through
vaccination.
So indeed flat -earthers should beware, and acquant themselves with a
few facts before seeing tyrrany in the western world, or here in New
Zealand, through an incident that demonstrates the danger of
non-compliance with reasonable covid infection prevention precautions.
The danger is not from government, but from extremists who do not
accept reasonable laws
Like whom?
(Like who?)
Mainly paranoiacs and congenital recalcitrants whose God-given mutuality
characterises their persecution complexes.
Quos deus vult perdere prius dementat.
Very good :) . . . "The church continued to hold over-capacity
indoor services throughout COVID’s second wave, despite surging
infections and multiple public health orders mandating limits on
in-person worship. Pastor James Coates spent 35 days in remand for
repeatedly refusing to abide by the rules."
Doubtless Tony sympathises with the Church . . .
Doubtless you haven't a clue.
Doubtless that is just more of your flat-earther logic - when in doubt
or unable to honestly respond, blindly attack.
Post by Tony
And I note you have not tried to defend the lies you wrote in your last bit of
nonsense in this thread. Doubtless you cannot.
There we have the toddler response again - if you want to accuse
anyone of lying, you need to do better than that, Tony - identify the
statement that you believe is a lie . . .
I already did in my reply to your post 24 hours ago.
Read and tell me why you lied about what I had posted.,
Tony
2021-04-21 02:21:02 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 19 Apr 2021 15:04:56 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sun, 18 Apr 2021 23:14:00 -0700 (PDT), James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sun, 18 Apr 2021 14:07:46 -0700 (PDT), John Bowes
Post by John Bowes
Post by Rich80105
Post by George Black
On Sun, 18 Apr 2021 10:21:02 +1200, Crash
Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 15 Apr 2021 22:19:08 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot
net
Post by Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Tony
http://themostimportantnews.com/we-are-now-entering-full-blown-tyranny-in-the-western-world/
Conspiracy theory or no there is some truth in this.
Our government rushed new gun laws, as soon as it had an excuse to
do
so.
I do not own a gun and I returned my licence some years ago so I
have
no "axe
to grind".
I agree that there is cause for concern that events like the COVID19
pandemic and the March 15 attack on the Chch mosques are used to
justify ill-considered law changes.
The mosques attacks resulted in a revision to gun laws. As someone
who has never and will never own a gun I am not affected personally
and I applaud any measure that works to reduce criminal use of
weapons.
Banning guns does not reduce the criminal use of them.
Bill.
I suppose he wants to pass a law that bans criminals from owning
firearms..
Its not clear whether the "he" you are talking about is "undefined" or
Tony or BR or any male politician of the day except David Saunders.
The law does not ban all "guns", but yes those that use guns for
criminal purposes may become criminals through that use of a gun as
well as wheteverother illegal actions they make.
It's YOU. But guess like the gormless Marxist muppet you are you'll
deny
that
obvious fact. Just as you deny we have a totalitarian government, which is what
Tony was getting at in his original post!
Post by Rich80105
Certainly the number of killings through use of firearms reduced
significantly in Australia following the baning of certain types by
the Howard government many years ago. I do not recall seeing
statistics for New Zealand, but apparently the arrival in New Zealand
of criminals deported from Australia may not have helped the NZ
experience.
Our own home grown criminals have never been adverse to shooting
indiscriminately. Don't blame the Aussie rejects who've been sent back
to
the
country of their birth because Aussie doesn't want our scum! Do you
have
a cite
for your senseless claim Aussie gun laws have stopped the crims
shooting
each
other in Australia? Because it sounds like just another lie from you to support
yet another of your mindless lies!
Post by Rich80105
Post by George Black
And the crims obey it.....
Yes some crims - just not those that do not obey it . . .
No Rich NONE of Labours favoured voter base you moronic fucking idiot!
I have not claimed that "Aussie gun laws have stopped the crims
shooting each other in Australia" - but there is evidence that the
laws reduced deaths from guns. I covered this in my post from
_________________________________
On Thu, 15 Apr 2021 22:19:08 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by John Bowes
Post by Rich80105
Post by George Black
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Tony
http://themostimportantnews.com/we-are-now-entering-full-blown-tyranny-in-the-western-world/
Conspiracy theory or no there is some truth in this.
Even for Canada it is pushing it. From
Post by John Bowes
Post by Rich80105
Post by George Black
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1107079/covid19-deaths-by-province-territory-canada/
"Ontario and Quebec have been the most severely affected. COVID-19
continues to pose a serious health threat to Canadians, but there have
been positive signs since the start of 2021, with the number of daily
new cases falling considerably." The differences in infection rates
by province are significant.
Far from "Orwellian", responses to Covid in most countries have been
less restrictive than ideal, and those imposed have often been lifted
too early.
From https://edmontonjournal.com/news/local-news/gracelife-tick-tock
"GraceLife is the ultimate COVID-19 scofflaw, or a paragon of
religious liberty, depending who you ask. The church continued to hold
over-capacity indoor services throughout COVID’s second wave, despite
surging infections and multiple public health orders mandating limits
on in-person worship. Pastor James Coates spent 35 days in remand for
repeatedly refusing to abide by the rules."
We know from New Zealand experience that gathering such as those of
churches can be particularly risky in relation to spreading Covid-19 -
this appears to be wilful flouting of laws rather than tyranny from
the Ontario Government
Post by John Bowes
Our government rushed new gun laws, as soon as it had an excuse to do so.
I do not own a gun and I returned my licence some years ago so I have
no
"axe
to grind".
Our new gun laws were not a response to Covid, but to the Christchurch
shootings.
I did not say otherwise.
Post by Rich80105
Stronger gun laws have been discussed in New Zealand for a
long time, but particularly since the Howard Federal Government
implemented changes in 1996 - starting 12 days after the Tasmanian
shooting - see https://injuryprevention.bmj.com/content/12/6/365
New Zealand had been considering changes ever since, but the
Christchurch shooings on 15 March 2019 led to an initial stage of law
changes on 15 April - see
Post by John Bowes
Post by Rich80105
Post by George Black
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_law_in_New_Zealand#Arms_Amendment_Bills_2_and_3_(1999_to_2012)
These were in line with previous proposals, and were passed by 119
votes to 1 - this was not tyranny, but a logical first step following
extensive previous discussions, and a mood from all except one MP to
see something done quickly. Only a small minority argued for delay in
passing that first stage of legislation.
Which means nothing. They are mostly failures at anything but politcis (ie.
mostly lying).
Post by Rich80105
As far as Covid is concerned, the New Zealand approach of going hard
and fast, or 'putting lives first', has seen New Zealand not only
experience lower infection rates than most countries, but also lower
economic damage than many other countries - we now have the luxury of
not having to rush a vaccination programme; even if the alarm in the
referenced article about the efficacy of vaccines is true, we are able
to make choices without needing to combat community infections through
vaccination.
So indeed flat -earthers should beware, and acquant themselves with a
few facts before seeing tyrrany in the western world, or here in New
Zealand, through an incident that demonstrates the danger of
non-compliance with reasonable covid infection prevention precautions.
The danger is not from government, but from extremists who do not
accept reasonable laws
Like whom?
(Like who?)
Mainly paranoiacs and congenital recalcitrants whose God-given mutuality
characterises their persecution complexes.
Quos deus vult perdere prius dementat.
Very good :) . . . "The church continued to hold over-capacity
indoor services throughout COVID’s second wave, despite surging
infections and multiple public health orders mandating limits on
in-person worship. Pastor James Coates spent 35 days in remand for
repeatedly refusing to abide by the rules."
Doubtless Tony sympathises with the Church . . .
Doubtless you haven't a clue.
Doubtless that is just more of your flat-earther logic - when in doubt
or unable to honestly respond, blindly attack.
Post by Tony
And I note you have not tried to defend the lies you wrote in your last bit of
nonsense in this thread. Doubtless you cannot.
There we have the toddler response again - if you want to accuse
anyone of lying, you need to do better than that, Tony - identify the
statement that you believe is a lie . . .
Found them yet?

James Christophers
2021-04-18 22:27:37 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by BR
Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 15 Apr 2021 22:19:08 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
http://themostimportantnews.com/we-are-now-entering-full-blown-tyranny-in-the-western-world/
Conspiracy theory or no there is some truth in this.
Our government rushed new gun laws, as soon as it had an excuse to do so.
I do not own a gun and I returned my licence some years ago so I have no "axe
to grind".
I agree that there is cause for concern that events like the COVID19
pandemic and the March 15 attack on the Chch mosques are used to
justify ill-considered law changes.
The mosques attacks resulted in a revision to gun laws. As someone
who has never and will never own a gun I am not affected personally
and I applaud any measure that works to reduce criminal use of
weapons.
Banning guns does not reduce the criminal use of them.
Thus organised crime.

Even so, if as stated - and only if - new laws prevent any further Christchurch-like mass -shootings, then surely that is a start? Laws can always be revised and amended to better suit. To me, the mosque obscenity that put this "100% Pure" country directly under the worst possible global spotlight, was way more than sufficient for any responsible government to act with exemplary dispatch, notwithstanding some lack of think-through on this occasion; as I've previously said, these laws were "rough-hewn", his due to an urgently perceived necessity by our elected representatives who are too often tall-poppy'd by some as being essentially no better than the next man, while yet being expected to exceed the next man's own capacities and capabilities at all times and in every circumstance.

That said, it is alleged that gun crime is again on the increase here, one not-unlikely suggestion being Australia's deporting of returning of case-hardened criminals and recidivists to this, their own God's Country.
Tony
2021-04-18 21:01:52 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 15 Apr 2021 22:19:08 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
http://themostimportantnews.com/we-are-now-entering-full-blown-tyranny-in-the-western-world/
Conspiracy theory or no there is some truth in this.
Our government rushed new gun laws, as soon as it had an excuse to do so.
I do not own a gun and I returned my licence some years ago so I have no "axe
to grind".
I agree that there is cause for concern that events like the COVID19
pandemic and the March 15 attack on the Chch mosques are used to
justify ill-considered law changes.
The mosques attacks resulted in a revision to gun laws. As someone
who has never and will never own a gun I am not affected personally
and I applaud any measure that works to reduce criminal use of
weapons.
I had a gun for the purpose of keeping rabbits and other undesirables under
control. When I no longer needed that I gave the gun to my Brother-in-law, a
farmer who owned a gun for only the same reason. I then handed my licence in to
the police.
I also applaud any measure that removes guns from criminals but I am not
convinced that the new (ish) rules did that. Time will tell.
I am however convinced that the timing of the new regulations was a deliberate
use of the attrocities in Christchurch, taking advantage of that opportunity.
I am also convinced that there are some countries where governments have taken
advantage of the pandemic to increase control over their population, Canada
seems to be one of those.
Post by Rich80105
The COVID19 pandemic has a much greater impact, much of which is yet
to impact us. In the next few years the government will have a level
of debt that most recently was considered unacceptably high -
particularly after a decade recovering from the GFC and Christchurch
earthquakes. There will be curbs on our freedoms that come with lock
downs to the point that many of us will no longer voluntarily comply
with lock down restrictions. There will also be expectations that the
eye-watering level of government subsidies to support economic
activity and preserve employment options could be similarly applied to
other social ills such as health funding, social housing etc.
Currently the National party in opposition appears to be distracted
from keeping the government honest, so we the voters cannot rely on
them to shine a blow-torch where needed.
Agreed, we need a real opposition.
Post by Rich80105
--
Crash McBash
Rich80105
2021-04-19 01:45:29 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Sun, 18 Apr 2021 16:01:52 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 15 Apr 2021 22:19:08 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
http://themostimportantnews.com/we-are-now-entering-full-blown-tyranny-in-the-western-world/
Conspiracy theory or no there is some truth in this.
Our government rushed new gun laws, as soon as it had an excuse to do so.
I do not own a gun and I returned my licence some years ago so I have no "axe
to grind".
I agree that there is cause for concern that events like the COVID19
pandemic and the March 15 attack on the Chch mosques are used to
justify ill-considered law changes.
The mosques attacks resulted in a revision to gun laws. As someone
who has never and will never own a gun I am not affected personally
and I applaud any measure that works to reduce criminal use of
weapons.
I had a gun for the purpose of keeping rabbits and other undesirables under
control. When I no longer needed that I gave the gun to my Brother-in-law, a
farmer who owned a gun for only the same reason. I then handed my licence in to
the police.
I also applaud any measure that removes guns from criminals but I am not
convinced that the new (ish) rules did that. Time will tell.
So you are saying that the new rules, which you linked to "full blown
tyranny", are desirable but may not go far enough. The reality is that
the legislation reflects the compromises necessary to gain widespread
approval at that time; there have been some further changes arising
out of experience since those first changes, but consideration is
being given to introducing a register not only of the guns but linking
them to owners - again as Australia has done. Consensus for that will
take time; seeking consensus is of itself contrary to your reference
to "tyranny"; that it is taking some time may be frustrating to those
that see the merits of such actions - it has often been pointed out
that we do not object to both vehicle licensing and identification of
ownership as well as driver licensing - why not with firearms which
are a different sort of dangerous weapon.
Post by Tony
I am however convinced that the timing of the new regulations was a deliberate
use of the attrocities in Christchurch, taking advantage of that opportunity.
Of course the Christchurch shootings influenced public opinion, but
the need for legislation had been in public discussion ever since
Australia had made changes to their legislation arising from a
shooting that was less severe than the Christchuch incident. There was
widespread public demand for action from across the political
spectrum. As it was the legislation was introduced more slowly than it
had been in Australia (by the conservative government of the day) and
did not go as far as Australian legislation. There have been few
complaints from within New Zealand except from a few gun lobbyists who
appear to now support the ACT party, but I doubt they are the sole
reason for the rise in MPs for that party at the last election. I do
not however see anything wrong with legislation arising from extreme
events in our country, particularly when that legislation has such
overwhelming support.
Post by Tony
I am also convinced that there are some countries where governments have taken
advantage of the pandemic to increase control over their population, Canada
seems to be one of those.
Not from that article. The defiance of quite reasonable covid
distancing requirements was being flouted, giving rise to the danger
of death to the population of that Province, who were undergoing a
surge in cases due to internal travel by infected people. Certainly
you can argue about the methods used, but the legislation was if
anything less controlling than in other jurisdictions including New
Zealand. We had a church that was considering meeting outside the
rules; it was dealt with effectively through discussion, public
pressure and without the use of force - sometimes 'being kind' and
calling on our 'team of 5 million' was an effective way of attaining
compliance than blunt force. I am glad that you decry the use of
force, but we were not responsible for enforcing the law during a
pandemic outbreak in another country. Canada is not New Zealand.
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
The COVID19 pandemic has a much greater impact, much of which is yet
to impact us. In the next few years the government will have a level
of debt that most recently was considered unacceptably high -
particularly after a decade recovering from the GFC and Christchurch
earthquakes.
Indeed, which makes many cynical about the cries of opposition to
spend much more . . .
Post by Tony
There will be curbs on our freedoms that come with lock
Post by Rich80105
downs to the point that many of us will no longer voluntarily comply
with lock down restrictions.
What evidence do you have to support that assertion? Our government is
trying to avoid going up from level 1? Our opposition appear
determined that we should take greater risks with opening our border;
the greater danger is not from current government actions and
policies.
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
There will also be expectations that the
eye-watering level of government subsidies to support economic
activity and preserve employment options could be similarly applied to
other social ills such as health funding, social housing etc.
Subsidies for businesses and individuals have been largely supported
by the opposition, but you are correct that we may not be able to
support the current level of business support inthe longer term. The
opposition is also urging government to increase spending on health,
recognising that Covid has shown that the system had been run down,
and have also criticised the government for not making as much
progress as voters had hoped in reducing poverty and inequality.
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Currently the National party in opposition appears to be distracted
from keeping the government honest, so we the voters cannot rely on
them to shine a blow-torch where needed.
Agreed, we need a real opposition.
I see nothing wrong with government and opposition making compromises
to get wide agreement with legislation - that is what happened with
the gun control legislation that followed gun atrocities in Australi
aand tlater in Christchurch. Blind opposition contrary to actions an
Opposition took itself in government do not help the credibility of an
opposition party - that is one of the reasons ACT is doing better (in
my view) than their natural level of support, while National is
floundering.
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
--
Crash McBash
Tony
2021-04-19 03:12:37 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Sun, 18 Apr 2021 16:01:52 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 15 Apr 2021 22:19:08 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
http://themostimportantnews.com/we-are-now-entering-full-blown-tyranny-in-the-western-world/
Conspiracy theory or no there is some truth in this.
Our government rushed new gun laws, as soon as it had an excuse to do so.
I do not own a gun and I returned my licence some years ago so I have no "axe
to grind".
I agree that there is cause for concern that events like the COVID19
pandemic and the March 15 attack on the Chch mosques are used to
justify ill-considered law changes.
The mosques attacks resulted in a revision to gun laws. As someone
who has never and will never own a gun I am not affected personally
and I applaud any measure that works to reduce criminal use of
weapons.
I had a gun for the purpose of keeping rabbits and other undesirables under
control. When I no longer needed that I gave the gun to my Brother-in-law, a
farmer who owned a gun for only the same reason. I then handed my licence in to
the police.
I also applaud any measure that removes guns from criminals but I am not
convinced that the new (ish) rules did that. Time will tell.
So you are saying that the new rules, which you linked to "full blown
tyranny", are desirable but may not go far enough.
No I am not. you are lying. The article author may have said tghat but not me.
Post by Rich80105
The reality is that
the legislation reflects the compromises necessary to gain widespread
approval at that time; there have been some further changes arising
out of experience since those first changes, but consideration is
being given to introducing a register not only of the guns but linking
them to owners - again as Australia has done. Consensus for that will
take time; seeking consensus is of itself contrary to your reference
to "tyranny"
IK did not refer to tyranny.
Post by Rich80105
; that it is taking some time may be frustrating to those
that see the merits of such actions - it has often been pointed out
that we do not object to both vehicle licensing and identification of
ownership as well as driver licensing - why not with firearms which
are a different sort of dangerous weapon.
Who has said that licensing gun owners is not a good idea? Not me!!!! Cite?
We used to regidter gubs to owners, abandoned by a government last century.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
I am however convinced that the timing of the new regulations was a deliberate
use of the attrocities in Christchurch, taking advantage of that opportunity.
Of course the Christchurch shootings influenced public opinion, but
the need for legislation had been in public discussion ever since
Australia had made changes to their legislation arising from a
shooting that was less severe than the Christchuch incident. There was
widespread public demand for action from across the political
spectrum. As it was the legislation was introduced more slowly than it
had been in Australia (by the conservative government of the day) and
did not go as far as Australian legislation. There have been few
complaints from within New Zealand except from a few gun lobbyists who
appear to now support the ACT party, but I doubt they are the sole
reason for the rise in MPs for that party at the last election. I do
not however see anything wrong with legislation arising from extreme
events in our country, particularly when that legislation has such
overwhelming support.
Irrelevant verbage.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
I am also convinced that there are some countries where governments have taken
advantage of the pandemic to increase control over their population, Canada
seems to be one of those.
Not from that article. The defiance of quite reasonable covid
distancing requirements was being flouted, giving rise to the danger
of death to the population of that Province, who were undergoing a
surge in cases due to internal travel by infected people. Certainly
you can argue about the methods used, but the legislation was if
anything less controlling than in other jurisdictions including New
Zealand. We had a church that was considering meeting outside the
rules; it was dealt with effectively through discussion, public
pressure and without the use of force - sometimes 'being kind' and
calling on our 'team of 5 million' was an effective way of attaining
compliance than blunt force. I am glad that you decry the use of
force, but we were not responsible for enforcing the law during a
pandemic outbreak in another country. Canada is not New Zealand.
Twisting words again.
Really? Well done, I thought until now that you would never understand such a
subtle fact. Splendid, keep it up.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
The COVID19 pandemic has a much greater impact, much of which is yet
to impact us. In the next few years the government will have a level
of debt that most recently was considered unacceptably high -
particularly after a decade recovering from the GFC and Christchurch
earthquakes.
Indeed, which makes many cynical about the cries of opposition to
spend much more . . .
Post by Tony
There will be curbs on our freedoms that come with lock
Post by Rich80105
downs to the point that many of us will no longer voluntarily comply
with lock down restrictions.
What evidence do you have to support that assertion?
I did not write that. Why do you attribute stuff to people who never wrote
that stuff? Is it because you need to lie rather than actually read and debate?
Post by Rich80105
Our government is
trying to avoid going up from level 1? Our opposition appear
determined that we should take greater risks with opening our border;
the greater danger is not from current government actions and
policies.
The government just opened the border. SO what is your point.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
There will also be expectations that the
eye-watering level of government subsidies to support economic
activity and preserve employment options could be similarly applied to
other social ills such as health funding, social housing etc.
Subsidies for businesses and individuals have been largely supported
by the opposition, but you are correct that we may not be able to
support the current level of business support inthe longer term. The
opposition is also urging government to increase spending on health,
recognising that Covid has shown that the system had been run down,
and have also criticised the government for not making as much
progress as voters had hoped in reducing poverty and inequality.
Another lie - I did not say that!
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Currently the National party in opposition appears to be distracted
from keeping the government honest, so we the voters cannot rely on
them to shine a blow-torch where needed.
Agreed, we need a real opposition.
I see nothing wrong with government and opposition making compromises
to get wide agreement with legislation - that is what happened with
the gun control legislation that followed gun atrocities in Australi
aand tlater in Christchurch. Blind opposition contrary to actions an
Opposition took itself in government do not help the credibility of an
opposition party - that is one of the reasons ACT is doing better (in
my view) than their natural level of support, while National is
floundering.
Wow, another insightful thought. Two in one day. Well done.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
--
Crash McBash
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