Discussion:
Getting the words right
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Rich80105
2021-01-16 21:10:46 UTC
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Permalink
https://theconversation.com/government-funds-are-not-taxpayer-money-media-and-politicians-should-stop-confusing-the-two-153195

It will not convince the nutters, it will not stop the deliberate
distortion of reality by the right wing anti-government spin
merchants, but it is correct . . .
John Bowes
2021-01-17 05:01:27 UTC
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Permalink
Post by Rich80105
https://theconversation.com/government-funds-are-not-taxpayer-money-media-and-politicians-should-stop-confusing-the-two-153195
It will not convince the nutters, it will not stop the deliberate
distortion of reality by the right wing anti-government spin
merchants, but it is correct . . .
Smoke and mirrors worthy of Ardern and Keith, Rich. We don't need to go anywhere to read distortions of reality. you do that every time you post! A cite slightly better than most you give but still pushing the left wing agenda all the same. in other words Rich beautifully written garbage!
Gordon
2021-01-17 07:36:23 UTC
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Post by Rich80105
https://theconversation.com/government-funds-are-not-taxpayer-money-media-and-politicians-should-stop-confusing-the-two-153195
It will not convince the nutters, it will not stop the deliberate
distortion of reality by the right wing anti-government spin
merchants, but it is correct . . .
Nah, Government Funds come from the tax payer so they are the taxpayer
money.

Other than that, we are all good.
Crash
2021-01-17 07:58:47 UTC
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Permalink
Post by Gordon
Post by Rich80105
https://theconversation.com/government-funds-are-not-taxpayer-money-media-and-politicians-should-stop-confusing-the-two-153195
It will not convince the nutters, it will not stop the deliberate
distortion of reality by the right wing anti-government spin
merchants, but it is correct . . .
Nah, Government Funds come from the tax payer so they are the taxpayer
money.
Not quite correct Gordon. The Government of the day gets its income
from a variety of sources. Some (but not all) are taxes (Income and
GST being the major ones, but others are special-purposes taxes such
as Road Users etc. Some income is also derived from fees (such as
annual vehicle registration).

However once the Government has received the money, it is owned by the
Government, not taxpayers. Taxpayers are a revenue source only, as
are those who pay fees and other forms of payment to the Government.
Post by Gordon
Other than that, we are all good.
--
Crash McBash
Rich80105
2021-01-17 09:33:06 UTC
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Permalink
Post by Crash
Post by Gordon
Post by Rich80105
https://theconversation.com/government-funds-are-not-taxpayer-money-media-and-politicians-should-stop-confusing-the-two-153195
It will not convince the nutters, it will not stop the deliberate
distortion of reality by the right wing anti-government spin
merchants, but it is correct . . .
Nah, Government Funds come from the tax payer so they are the taxpayer
money.
Not quite correct Gordon. The Government of the day gets its income
from a variety of sources. Some (but not all) are taxes (Income and
GST being the major ones, but others are special-purposes taxes such
as Road Users etc. Some income is also derived from fees (such as
annual vehicle registration).
However once the Government has received the money, it is owned by the
Government, not taxpayers. Taxpayers are a revenue source only, as
are those who pay fees and other forms of payment to the Government.
Post by Gordon
Other than that, we are all good.
Correct, Crash. Other sources are fines, penalties, interest on loans
(in both directions), returns from state owned organisations, etc,
etc.

The confusion is an example of deliberately misleading information for
political purposes. The reason why we should not just accept these
false statements is I believe covered in a quote from Ruth Bader
Ginsberg :
“fight for the things you care about, but do it in way that will lead
others to join you” which I saw here:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/123922492/we-can-be-a-nation-of-sweet-moderation--but-only-if-we-keep-working-at-it

although that article is largely about more serious issues.
James Christophers
2021-01-17 20:51:00 UTC
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Permalink
Post by Gordon
Post by Rich80105
https://theconversation.com/government-funds-are-not-taxpayer-money-media-and-politicians-should-stop-confusing-the-two-153195
It will not convince the nutters, it will not stop the deliberate
distortion of reality by the right wing anti-government spin
merchants, but it is correct . . .
Nah, Government Funds come from the tax payer so they are the taxpayer
money.
Not quite correct Gordon. The Government of the day gets its income
from a variety of sources. Some (but not all) are taxes (Income and
GST being the major ones, but others are special-purposes taxes such
as Road Users etc. Some income is also derived from fees (such as
annual vehicle registration).
However once the Government has received the money, it is owned by the
Government, not taxpayers. Taxpayers are a revenue source only, as
are those who pay fees and other forms of payment to the Government.
Call it what it is: taxpayers' earnings. After all, if no one earns, there can be no tax take.

The other side of the equation is not mentioned, but it is just as important if not more so. Government debt. Who raises it? The government. Who spends it? The government. But how is that same government debt, and the interest on it amortised and/or discharged? That's right - from taxpayer earnings. So, what if those taxpayers' earnings are insufficient to meet the government's debts due to the taxpayer's **pre-tax** earnings being insufficient? And so it goes.

And don't even think of mentioning the perniciously degenerate make-do-and-mend fig-leaf dressed up as Working for Families...!

Which is exactly why, taken to together, no import-dependent (i.e. non-self-sustainable) economy can ever hope to survive, let alone thrive, when perniciously under-waged and zero real-productivity enterprises and businesses end up dominating it. And it's also why quoting GDP - a spot indicator of economic activity **only** and, again, not of genuine productivity - as an indicator of economic health is fake news. Every time.
Post by Gordon
Other than that, we are all good.
--
Crash McBash
Rich80105
2021-01-26 04:31:21 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Sun, 17 Jan 2021 12:51:00 -0800 (PST), James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by Gordon
Post by Rich80105
https://theconversation.com/government-funds-are-not-taxpayer-money-media-and-politicians-should-stop-confusing-the-two-153195
It will not convince the nutters, it will not stop the deliberate
distortion of reality by the right wing anti-government spin
merchants, but it is correct . . .
Nah, Government Funds come from the tax payer so they are the taxpayer
money.
Not quite correct Gordon. The Government of the day gets its income
from a variety of sources. Some (but not all) are taxes (Income and
GST being the major ones, but others are special-purposes taxes such
as Road Users etc. Some income is also derived from fees (such as
annual vehicle registration).
However once the Government has received the money, it is owned by the
Government, not taxpayers. Taxpayers are a revenue source only, as
are those who pay fees and other forms of payment to the Government.
Call it what it is: taxpayers' earnings. After all, if no one earns, there can be no tax take.
Tourists pay GST and Fuel levies, and most of them are not taxpayers.
Beneficiaries pay GST; some do not have any yaxable income, others
have a higher effective marginal tax rate than high income earners . .
.
Post by James Christophers
The other side of the equation is not mentioned, but it is just as important if not more so. Government debt. Who raises it? The government. Who spends it? The government. But how is that same government debt, and the interest on it amortised and/or discharged? That's right - from taxpayer earnings. So, what if those taxpayers' earnings are insufficient to meet the government's debts due to the taxpayer's **pre-tax** earnings being insufficient? And so it goes.
And don't even think of mentioning the perniciously degenerate make-do-and-mend fig-leaf dressed up as Working for Families...!
Which is exactly why, taken to together, no import-dependent (i.e. non-self-sustainable) economy can ever hope to survive, let alone thrive, when perniciously under-waged and zero real-productivity enterprises and businesses end up dominating it. And it's also why quoting GDP - a spot indicator of economic activity **only** and, again, not of genuine productivity - as an indicator of economic health is fake news. Every time.
Post by Gordon
Other than that, we are all good.
--
Crash McBash
Firu
2021-01-18 07:47:24 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Gordon
Post by Rich80105
https://theconversation.com/government-funds-are-not-taxpayer-money-media-and-politicians-should-stop-confusing-the-two-153195
It will not convince the nutters, it will not stop the deliberate
distortion of reality by the right wing anti-government spin
merchants, but it is correct . . .
Nah, Government Funds come from the tax payer so they are the taxpayer
money.
Other than that, we are all good.
Just like the money in my back pocket is still customers money.

Not.
BR
2021-01-18 16:09:39 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Firu
Post by Gordon
Post by Rich80105
https://theconversation.com/government-funds-are-not-taxpayer-money-media-and-politicians-should-stop-confusing-the-two-153195
It will not convince the nutters, it will not stop the deliberate
distortion of reality by the right wing anti-government spin
merchants, but it is correct . . .
Nah, Government Funds come from the tax payer so they are the taxpayer
money.
Other than that, we are all good.
Just like the money in my back pocket is still customers money.
Not.
The money given to you by your customers was given willingly by mutual
agreement in exchange for whatever it was you were selling.

Tax money is taken by force. The money still belongs to the taxpayers.
The government is merely a steward, and it has a duty to spend that
money prudently and responsibly. It also has a duty not to take more
than it needs to pay for the essential functions of government.

Cappiche?

Bill.
--
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Firu
2021-01-18 16:53:12 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by BR
Post by Firu
Post by Gordon
Nah, Government Funds come from the tax payer so they are the taxpayer
money.
Other than that, we are all good.
Just like the money in my back pocket is still customers money.
Not.
The money given to you by your customers was given willingly by mutual
agreement in exchange for whatever it was you were selling.
Tax money is taken by force. The money still belongs to the taxpayers.
The government is merely a steward, and it has a duty to spend that
money prudently and responsibly. It also has a duty not to take more
than it needs to pay for the essential functions of government.
Weirdly enough no one's ever taken my taxes by force. We picked the
bloody government, we know they will levy taxes. Any money we pay out in
taxes is with our consent.

Or you could say, the money given to them by their customers was given
willingly by mutual agreement in exchange for whatever it was they were
selling.

Butanyway, like any transaction, once it's in the governments bank it
ain't ours any more. Only if we get a tax refund is it our money again.

As for duties of government, that's just cobblers! Since when did any
government, anywhere, spend responsibly or take just enough?

They don't really take enough now if the debt figures are to be
believed. In 2019 New Zealand's national debt was 57,736,000,000 NZD
(57736 Million) 2020 will be 74,000,000,000 ish. Should've banged them
taxes up!

If you don't like the taxes vote for the party that says no to taxes.
But you might struggle with the consequences ;-)
BR
2021-01-20 04:28:03 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Firu
Post by BR
Post by Firu
Post by Gordon
Nah, Government Funds come from the tax payer so they are the taxpayer
money.
Other than that, we are all good.
Just like the money in my back pocket is still customers money.
Not.
The money given to you by your customers was given willingly by mutual
agreement in exchange for whatever it was you were selling.
Tax money is taken by force. The money still belongs to the taxpayers.
The government is merely a steward, and it has a duty to spend that
money prudently and responsibly. It also has a duty not to take more
than it needs to pay for the essential functions of government.
Weirdly enough no one's ever taken my taxes by force. We picked the
bloody government, we know they will levy taxes. Any money we pay out in
taxes is with our consent.
Try witholding payment and see what happens.
Post by Firu
Or you could say, the money given to them by their customers was given
willingly by mutual agreement in exchange for whatever it was they were
selling.
No. What it really amounts to is that you will buy our product
regardless of whether or not you need it, want it or can use it,
regardless of how shoddy a product it may turnout to be, and you will
buy it at a price that we dictate.
Post by Firu
Butanyway, like any transaction, once it's in the governments bank it
ain't ours any more. Only if we get a tax refund is it our money again.
Then to whom does it belong? The politicians? The bureaucrats?
Post by Firu
As for duties of government, that's just cobblers! Since when did any
government, anywhere, spend responsibly or take just enough?
They don't really take enough now if the debt figures are to be
believed. In 2019 New Zealand's national debt was 57,736,000,000 NZD
(57736 Million) 2020 will be 74,000,000,000 ish. Should've banged them
taxes up!
OK, so they take more than they need and don't spend it responsibly,
but they should be taking even more now because of the multi billion
dollar debt they have racked up as a result of their own profligacy.

Have I got that about right?
Post by Firu
If you don't like the taxes vote for the party that says no to taxes.
But you might struggle with the consequences ;-)
I have never advocated for zero taxes.

Here's an idea. How about we give all our money to the government and
then they can give us back what they think we should have.

Would that suit you better?

Bill
--
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https://www.avg.com
James Christophers
2021-01-20 05:11:35 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by BR
Post by Firu
Post by BR
Post by Firu
Post by Gordon
Nah, Government Funds come from the tax payer so they are the taxpayer
money.
Other than that, we are all good.
Just like the money in my back pocket is still customers money.
Not.
The money given to you by your customers was given willingly by mutual
agreement in exchange for whatever it was you were selling.
Tax money is taken by force. The money still belongs to the taxpayers.
The government is merely a steward, and it has a duty to spend that
money prudently and responsibly. It also has a duty not to take more
than it needs to pay for the essential functions of government.
Weirdly enough no one's ever taken my taxes by force. We picked the
bloody government, we know they will levy taxes. Any money we pay out in
taxes is with our consent.
Try witholding payment and see what happens.
That would place you in breach of the social contract that you are not only implicity enaged in with the state, but whose continuance you also agree to through your continued voluntary citizenship, together with your voluntary perpetuation of your own democratic electoral process, however wanting you may find it.
Post by BR
Post by Firu
Or you could say, the money given to them by their customers was given
willingly by mutual agreement in exchange for whatever it was they were
selling.
No. What it really amounts to is that you will buy our product
regardless of whether or not you need it, want it or can use it,
regardless of how shoddy a product it may turnout to be, and you will
buy it at a price that we dictate.
The remedy for such dissatisfactions and/or inadequacies resides in the social contract that our voter-based democracy underpins and which, inextricably, incorporates you.
Post by BR
Post by Firu
Butanyway, like any transaction, once it's in the governments bank it
ain't ours any more. Only if we get a tax refund is it our money again.
Then to whom does it belong? The politicians? The bureaucrats?
Post by Firu
As for duties of government, that's just cobblers! Since when did any
government, anywhere, spend responsibly or take just enough?
They don't really take enough now if the debt figures are to be
believed. In 2019 New Zealand's national debt was 57,736,000,000 NZD
(57736 Million) 2020 will be 74,000,000,000 ish. Should've banged them
taxes up!
OK, so they take more than they need and don't spend it responsibly,
Your own value judgement and presumption only.
Post by BR
but they should be taking even more now because of the multi billion
dollar debt they have racked up as a result of their own profligacy.
How, in terms, do you **quantify** any alleged profligacy, and in what way are you so singularly qualified to measure and judge it?
Post by BR
Have I got that about right?
If you can convincingly and irrefutably answer both queries in my immediately preceding response, then judge for yourself.
Post by BR
Post by Firu
If you don't like the taxes vote for the party that says no to taxes.
But you might struggle with the consequences ;-)
I have never advocated for zero taxes.
Here's an idea. How about we give all our money to the government and
then they can give us back what they think we should have.
In essence all wealth eventually returns in some form or other to the state, either ours or at least in part that of other nations. And the reverse applies. That's how the global economy operates - i.e. wealth exchange through trade - although it and its effects and outcomes are seldom if ever judged wholly equitable.
Post by BR
Would that suit you better?
Inevitably indeterminate, so no-one can ultimately truly know. That's (partly) why it is the condundrum it is and why there can be no end to it.
BR
2021-01-22 10:15:12 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Tue, 19 Jan 2021 21:11:35 -0800 (PST), James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by BR
Post by Firu
Post by BR
Post by Firu
Post by Gordon
Nah, Government Funds come from the tax payer so they are the taxpayer
money.
Other than that, we are all good.
Just like the money in my back pocket is still customers money.
Not.
The money given to you by your customers was given willingly by mutual
agreement in exchange for whatever it was you were selling.
Tax money is taken by force. The money still belongs to the taxpayers.
The government is merely a steward, and it has a duty to spend that
money prudently and responsibly. It also has a duty not to take more
than it needs to pay for the essential functions of government.
Weirdly enough no one's ever taken my taxes by force. We picked the
bloody government, we know they will levy taxes. Any money we pay out in
taxes is with our consent.
Try witholding payment and see what happens.
That would place you in breach of the social contract that you are not only implicity enaged in with the state, but whose continuance you also agree to through your continued voluntary citizenship, together with your voluntary perpetuation of your own democratic electoral process, however wanting you may find it.
Post by BR
Post by Firu
Or you could say, the money given to them by their customers was given
willingly by mutual agreement in exchange for whatever it was they were
selling.
No. What it really amounts to is that you will buy our product
regardless of whether or not you need it, want it or can use it,
regardless of how shoddy a product it may turnout to be, and you will
buy it at a price that we dictate.
The remedy for such dissatisfactions and/or inadequacies resides in the social contract that our voter-based democracy underpins and which, inextricably, incorporates you.
Unfortunatley, the main problem with a parliamentary democracy is that
when unproductive people, whether they be dole bludgers or overpaid
govenment lackeys, become numerous enough to represent a political
force to be reckoned with, economic collapse is the only end game
possible.
Post by James Christophers
Post by BR
Post by Firu
Butanyway, like any transaction, once it's in the governments bank it
ain't ours any more. Only if we get a tax refund is it our money again.
Then to whom does it belong? The politicians? The bureaucrats?
Post by Firu
As for duties of government, that's just cobblers! Since when did any
government, anywhere, spend responsibly or take just enough?
They don't really take enough now if the debt figures are to be
believed. In 2019 New Zealand's national debt was 57,736,000,000 NZD
(57736 Million) 2020 will be 74,000,000,000 ish. Should've banged them
taxes up!
OK, so they take more than they need and don't spend it responsibly,
Your own value judgement and presumption only.
Nevertheless, there is no denying that the cost of government and the
number of unnecessary regulations, enforcement and obstructionism has
increased over the last few decades and is not about to reverse course
anytime soon.
Post by James Christophers
Post by BR
but they should be taking even more now because of the multi billion
dollar debt they have racked up as a result of their own profligacy.
How, in terms, do you **quantify** any alleged profligacy, and in what way are you so singularly qualified to measure and judge it?
Post by BR
Have I got that about right?
If you can convincingly and irrefutably answer both queries in my immediately preceding response, then judge for yourself.
Really? I wasn't the one who made two contradictory claims in the same
post.
Post by James Christophers
Post by BR
Post by Firu
If you don't like the taxes vote for the party that says no to taxes.
But you might struggle with the consequences ;-)
I have never advocated for zero taxes.
Here's an idea. How about we give all our money to the government and
then they can give us back what they think we should have.
In essence all wealth eventually returns in some form or other to the state, either ours or at least in part that of other nations. And the reverse applies. That's how the global economy operates - i.e. wealth exchange through trade - although it and its effects and outcomes are seldom if ever judged wholly equitable.
Post by BR
Would that suit you better?
Inevitably indeterminate, so no-one can ultimately truly know. That's (partly) why it is the condundrum it is and why there can be no end to it.
There will be an end to it, but not one that will please anyone except
those in charge.
--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com
Firu
2021-01-20 11:12:23 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by BR
Post by Firu
Post by BR
Post by Firu
Post by Gordon
Nah, Government Funds come from the tax payer so they are the taxpayer
money.
Other than that, we are all good.
Just like the money in my back pocket is still customers money.
Not.
The money given to you by your customers was given willingly by mutual
agreement in exchange for whatever it was you were selling.
Tax money is taken by force. The money still belongs to the taxpayers.
The government is merely a steward, and it has a duty to spend that
money prudently and responsibly. It also has a duty not to take more
than it needs to pay for the essential functions of government.
Weirdly enough no one's ever taken my taxes by force. We picked the
bloody government, we know they will levy taxes. Any money we pay out in
taxes is with our consent.
Try witholding payment and see what happens.
Pretty much the same as happens to shysters who don't pay any bill I guess.
Post by BR
Post by Firu
Or you could say, the money given to them by their customers was given
willingly by mutual agreement in exchange for whatever it was they were
selling.
No. What it really amounts to is that you will buy our product
regardless of whether or not you need it, want it or can use it,
regardless of how shoddy a product it may turnout to be, and you will
buy it at a price that we dictate.
The product you 'bought' was the politicians manifesto at the election.
If your side lost you don't get to not pay your dues. Soz mate.
Post by BR
Post by Firu
Butanyway, like any transaction, once it's in the governments bank it
ain't ours any more. Only if we get a tax refund is it our money again.
Then to whom does it belong? The politicians? The bureaucrats?
That weird thing called Government.
Post by BR
Post by Firu
As for duties of government, that's just cobblers! Since when did any
government, anywhere, spend responsibly or take just enough?
They don't really take enough now if the debt figures are to be
believed. In 2019 New Zealand's national debt was 57,736,000,000 NZD
(57736 Million) 2020 will be 74,000,000,000 ish. Should've banged them
taxes up!
OK, so they take more than they need and don't spend it responsibly,
but they should be taking even more now because of the multi billion
dollar debt they have racked up as a result of their own profligacy.
Have I got that about right?
:o) No.

You say 'tax just enough', I suggest that debt figure means we don't tax
enough. If we did there would be no debt. Not sure how that translates
into what you wrote.

And depending on where you sit politically, every Government will tax
too much and spend the cash unwisely.
Post by BR
Post by Firu
If you don't like the taxes vote for the party that says no to taxes.
But you might struggle with the consequences ;-)
I have never advocated for zero taxes.
Here's an idea. How about we give all our money to the government and
then they can give us back what they think we should have.
Would that suit you better?
:o)
I wonder if this has ever been tried? I don't think it'll never fly.
You'd need total control by the Government over health care, housing,
transport, employment, prices, and all services associated with everyday
living. Otherwise the sheer bureaucracy would mean this years allowance
wouldn't be paid before 2023.

Besides, I earn too much to sign up to that!
BR
2021-01-22 10:45:57 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Firu
Post by BR
Post by Firu
Post by BR
Post by Firu
Post by Gordon
Nah, Government Funds come from the tax payer so they are the taxpayer
money.
Other than that, we are all good.
Just like the money in my back pocket is still customers money.
Not.
The money given to you by your customers was given willingly by mutual
agreement in exchange for whatever it was you were selling.
Tax money is taken by force. The money still belongs to the taxpayers.
The government is merely a steward, and it has a duty to spend that
money prudently and responsibly. It also has a duty not to take more
than it needs to pay for the essential functions of government.
Weirdly enough no one's ever taken my taxes by force. We picked the
bloody government, we know they will levy taxes. Any money we pay out in
taxes is with our consent.
Try witholding payment and see what happens.
Pretty much the same as happens to shysters who don't pay any bill I guess.
Post by BR
Post by Firu
Or you could say, the money given to them by their customers was given
willingly by mutual agreement in exchange for whatever it was they were
selling.
No. What it really amounts to is that you will buy our product
regardless of whether or not you need it, want it or can use it,
regardless of how shoddy a product it may turnout to be, and you will
buy it at a price that we dictate.
The product you 'bought' was the politicians manifesto at the election.
If your side lost you don't get to not pay your dues. Soz mate.
When the only choice is between villainy and gutlessness, there is
only one side.
Post by Firu
Post by BR
Post by Firu
Butanyway, like any transaction, once it's in the governments bank it
ain't ours any more. Only if we get a tax refund is it our money again.
Then to whom does it belong? The politicians? The bureaucrats?
That weird thing called Government.
Ans who are they?
Post by Firu
Post by BR
Post by Firu
As for duties of government, that's just cobblers! Since when did any
government, anywhere, spend responsibly or take just enough?
They don't really take enough now if the debt figures are to be
believed. In 2019 New Zealand's national debt was 57,736,000,000 NZD
(57736 Million) 2020 will be 74,000,000,000 ish. Should've banged them
taxes up!
Governments take too much money and don't spend it responsibly, but
from your perspective they don't take enough. You have just
contradicted yourself in the space of two paragraphs.
Post by Firu
Post by BR
OK, so they take more than they need and don't spend it responsibly,
but they should be taking even more now because of the multi billion
dollar debt they have racked up as a result of their own profligacy.
Have I got that about right?
:o) No.
You say 'tax just enough', I suggest that debt figure means we don't tax
enough. If we did there would be no debt. Not sure how that translates
into what you wrote.
And depending on where you sit politically, every Government will tax
too much and spend the cash unwisely.
The debt is not the result of not taxing enough, it is the result of
governments spending too much. Any private citizen who managed their
affairs that way would end up living under a bridge somewhere. Some
do.
Post by Firu
Post by BR
Post by Firu
If you don't like the taxes vote for the party that says no to taxes.
But you might struggle with the consequences ;-)
I have never advocated for zero taxes.
Here's an idea. How about we give all our money to the government and
then they can give us back what they think we should have.
Would that suit you better?
:o)
I wonder if this has ever been tried? I don't think it'll never fly.
You'd need total control by the Government over health care, housing,
transport, employment, prices, and all services associated with everyday
living. Otherwise the sheer bureaucracy would mean this years allowance
wouldn't be paid before 2023.
It's been tried many times and it has has delivered nothing but
misery. It's called communism. "From each according to his ability, to
each according to his need." - Karl Marx.
Post by Firu
Besides, I earn too much to sign up to that!
You are the one who says governments don't take enough. Just write out
the cheque. You can obviously afford to do that and the government
needs more of your money. You have said so. That makes you the perfect
candidate to lead by example.

Bill.
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greybeard
2021-01-17 23:41:42 UTC
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Post by Rich80105
https://theconversation.com/government-funds-are-not-taxpayer-money-media-and-politicians-should-stop-confusing-the-two-153195
It will not convince the nutters, it will not stop the deliberate
distortion of reality by the right wing anti-government spin
merchants, but it is correct . . .
OK. So I can now expect this administration to stop saying they are good
managers of taxpayers money (or other similar such utterance ) because:
a. you say it's not taxpayers money they are handling.
b. it's a lie, and Grunter Robertson doesn't have clue.
c. this administration knows they are liars, but are so accustomed to
uttering falsehoods, they do it anyway. If you lie often enough the
gullible will believe it. Normalisation.
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