Discussion:
The Truth hurts when humour bites
(too old to reply)
Crash
2021-05-14 02:59:42 UTC
Permalink
"Indeed the pay freeze fiasco could well be the frosty harbinger of a
broader winter of discontent to come, discontent that the Government
can’t simply talk away. Until recently, effective communication has
been one of this Government’s core skills if not signature
achievements. However we’re now seeing a decline in that skill set and
the Government could well be facing a winter of too many pigs with not
enough lipstick."

from:

https://www.newsroom.co.nz/yesterdaze-to-freeze-or-not-to-freeze


--
Crash McBash
Gordon
2021-05-14 03:57:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Crash
"Indeed the pay freeze fiasco could well be the frosty harbinger of a
broader winter of discontent to come, discontent that the Government
can’t simply talk away. Until recently, effective communication has
been one of this Government’s core skills if not signature
achievements. However we’re now seeing a decline in that skill set and
the Government could well be facing a winter of too many pigs with not
enough lipstick."
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/yesterdaze-to-freeze-or-not-to-freeze
From the link above

Simon Bridges has written a book, which poses an obvious question -
what did he do for the rest of the afternoon?


Anyhow I do think that the Governments defence is starting to wear thin in
places. You can fool everyone for some of the time, but not all of the time.

With the vacination programme completed we will have crossed the river and
now can switch horses. Having done a great job on the Covid-19 case it is
necessary to keep moving as people will soon forget COVID-19, after all to
date only 26 people have died. Now if it was 2,600 and increasing people
would remember it for longer. Of course the Government would be tossed out
pronto.

What Labour has to do is to start thinking through it policies, or at least
show/convience the public that they are good for NZ as a whole. Without this
we will have the realisation dawning on the voters that while this
Government was good on Covid-19 they are not so on just about everything
else.
Rich80105
2021-05-14 05:09:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gordon
Post by Crash
"Indeed the pay freeze fiasco could well be the frosty harbinger of a
broader winter of discontent to come, discontent that the Government
can?t simply talk away. Until recently, effective communication has
been one of this Government?s core skills if not signature
achievements. However we?re now seeing a decline in that skill set and
the Government could well be facing a winter of too many pigs with not
enough lipstick."
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/yesterdaze-to-freeze-or-not-to-freeze
From the link above
Simon Bridges has written a book, which poses an obvious question -
what did he do for the rest of the afternoon?
Anyhow I do think that the Governments defence is starting to wear thin in
places. You can fool everyone for some of the time, but not all of the time.
With the vacination programme completed we will have crossed the river and
now can switch horses. Having done a great job on the Covid-19 case it is
necessary to keep moving as people will soon forget COVID-19, after all to
date only 26 people have died. Now if it was 2,600 and increasing people
would remember it for longer. Of course the Government would be tossed out
pronto.
We are likely to need another vaccination next year. We are also
seeing that we do not want to have another community lock-down -
either full or partial. Travel overseas is likely to be restricted for
some time - the experience of being unable to return from some
countries without a lot of difficulty is becoming better known.
Post by Gordon
What Labour has to do is to start thinking through it policies, or at least
show/convience the public that they are good for NZ as a whole. Without this
we will have the realisation dawning on the voters that while this
Government was good on Covid-19 they are not so on just about everything
else.
Try looking at the list of other achievements then - they have
consistently shown that they are better for emplyment, better for
business, better for health, better for international dilomacy, better
for housing, better economic managers, and better for families, law
and order, the disadvantaged.

What do you think National could or would have done better?
Tony
2021-05-14 07:00:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
Post by Gordon
Post by Crash
"Indeed the pay freeze fiasco could well be the frosty harbinger of a
broader winter of discontent to come, discontent that the Government
can?t simply talk away. Until recently, effective communication has
been one of this Government?s core skills if not signature
achievements. However we?re now seeing a decline in that skill set and
the Government could well be facing a winter of too many pigs with not
enough lipstick."
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/yesterdaze-to-freeze-or-not-to-freeze
From the link above
Simon Bridges has written a book, which poses an obvious question -
what did he do for the rest of the afternoon?
Anyhow I do think that the Governments defence is starting to wear thin in
places. You can fool everyone for some of the time, but not all of the time.
With the vacination programme completed we will have crossed the river and
now can switch horses. Having done a great job on the Covid-19 case it is
necessary to keep moving as people will soon forget COVID-19, after all to
date only 26 people have died. Now if it was 2,600 and increasing people
would remember it for longer. Of course the Government would be tossed out
pronto.
We are likely to need another vaccination next year. We are also
seeing that we do not want to have another community lock-down -
either full or partial. Travel overseas is likely to be restricted for
some time - the experience of being unable to return from some
countries without a lot of difficulty is becoming better known.
Post by Gordon
What Labour has to do is to start thinking through it policies, or at least
show/convience the public that they are good for NZ as a whole. Without this
we will have the realisation dawning on the voters that while this
Government was good on Covid-19 they are not so on just about everything
else.
Try looking at the list of other achievements then - they have
consistently shown that they are better for emplyment, better for
business, better for health, better for international dilomacy, better
for housing, better economic managers, and better for families, law
and order
Cites? And not just rhtoric but actual cites with analysis and comparisons with
any other government this century.
Waiting.
, the disadvantaged.
Post by Rich80105
What do you think National could or would have done better?
Tony
2021-05-16 03:45:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Gordon
Post by Crash
"Indeed the pay freeze fiasco could well be the frosty harbinger of a
broader winter of discontent to come, discontent that the Government
can?t simply talk away. Until recently, effective communication has
been one of this Government?s core skills if not signature
achievements. However we?re now seeing a decline in that skill set and
the Government could well be facing a winter of too many pigs with not
enough lipstick."
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/yesterdaze-to-freeze-or-not-to-freeze
From the link above
Simon Bridges has written a book, which poses an obvious question -
what did he do for the rest of the afternoon?
Anyhow I do think that the Governments defence is starting to wear thin in
places. You can fool everyone for some of the time, but not all of the time.
With the vacination programme completed we will have crossed the river and
now can switch horses. Having done a great job on the Covid-19 case it is
necessary to keep moving as people will soon forget COVID-19, after all to
date only 26 people have died. Now if it was 2,600 and increasing people
would remember it for longer. Of course the Government would be tossed out
pronto.
We are likely to need another vaccination next year. We are also
seeing that we do not want to have another community lock-down -
either full or partial. Travel overseas is likely to be restricted for
some time - the experience of being unable to return from some
countries without a lot of difficulty is becoming better known.
Post by Gordon
What Labour has to do is to start thinking through it policies, or at least
show/convience the public that they are good for NZ as a whole. Without this
we will have the realisation dawning on the voters that while this
Government was good on Covid-19 they are not so on just about everything
else.
Try looking at the list of other achievements then - they have
consistently shown that they are better for emplyment, better for
business, better for health, better for international dilomacy, better
for housing, better economic managers, and better for families, law
and order
Cites? And not just rhtoric but actual cites with analysis and comparisons with
any other government this century.
Waiting.
How disappointing, no evidence to support what Rich posted.
Perhaps this government is consistently better at promises and terrible at
delivery (which year was that again?).
Post by Tony
, the disadvantaged.
Post by Rich80105
What do you think National could or would have done better?
John Bowes
2021-05-16 04:54:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Gordon
Post by Crash
"Indeed the pay freeze fiasco could well be the frosty harbinger of a
broader winter of discontent to come, discontent that the Government
can?t simply talk away. Until recently, effective communication has
been one of this Government?s core skills if not signature
achievements. However we?re now seeing a decline in that skill set and
the Government could well be facing a winter of too many pigs with not
enough lipstick."
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/yesterdaze-to-freeze-or-not-to-freeze
From the link above
Simon Bridges has written a book, which poses an obvious question -
what did he do for the rest of the afternoon?
Anyhow I do think that the Governments defence is starting to wear thin in
places. You can fool everyone for some of the time, but not all of the time.
With the vacination programme completed we will have crossed the river and
now can switch horses. Having done a great job on the Covid-19 case it is
necessary to keep moving as people will soon forget COVID-19, after all to
date only 26 people have died. Now if it was 2,600 and increasing people
would remember it for longer. Of course the Government would be tossed out
pronto.
We are likely to need another vaccination next year. We are also
seeing that we do not want to have another community lock-down -
either full or partial. Travel overseas is likely to be restricted for
some time - the experience of being unable to return from some
countries without a lot of difficulty is becoming better known.
Post by Gordon
What Labour has to do is to start thinking through it policies, or at least
show/convience the public that they are good for NZ as a whole. Without this
we will have the realisation dawning on the voters that while this
Government was good on Covid-19 they are not so on just about everything
else.
Try looking at the list of other achievements then - they have
consistently shown that they are better for emplyment, better for
business, better for health, better for international dilomacy, better
for housing, better economic managers, and better for families, law
and order
Cites? And not just rhtoric but actual cites with analysis and comparisons with
any other government this century.
Waiting.
How disappointing, no evidence to support what Rich posted.
Perhaps this government is consistently better at promises and terrible at
delivery (which year was that again?).
No surprises at Rich failing to provide evidence of yet more of his lies :)
Rich80105
2021-05-16 08:20:47 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 15 May 2021 21:54:11 -0700 (PDT), John Bowes
Post by John Bowes
Post by Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Gordon
Post by Crash
"Indeed the pay freeze fiasco could well be the frosty harbinger of a
broader winter of discontent to come, discontent that the Government
can?t simply talk away. Until recently, effective communication has
been one of this Government?s core skills if not signature
achievements. However we?re now seeing a decline in that skill set and
the Government could well be facing a winter of too many pigs with not
enough lipstick."
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/yesterdaze-to-freeze-or-not-to-freeze
From the link above
Simon Bridges has written a book, which poses an obvious question -
what did he do for the rest of the afternoon?
Anyhow I do think that the Governments defence is starting to wear thin in
places. You can fool everyone for some of the time, but not all of the time.
With the vacination programme completed we will have crossed the river and
now can switch horses. Having done a great job on the Covid-19 case it is
necessary to keep moving as people will soon forget COVID-19, after all to
date only 26 people have died. Now if it was 2,600 and increasing people
would remember it for longer. Of course the Government would be tossed out
pronto.
We are likely to need another vaccination next year. We are also
seeing that we do not want to have another community lock-down -
either full or partial. Travel overseas is likely to be restricted for
some time - the experience of being unable to return from some
countries without a lot of difficulty is becoming better known.
Post by Gordon
What Labour has to do is to start thinking through it policies, or at least
show/convience the public that they are good for NZ as a whole. Without this
we will have the realisation dawning on the voters that while this
Government was good on Covid-19 they are not so on just about everything
else.
Try looking at the list of other achievements then - they have
consistently shown that they are better for emplyment, better for
business, better for health, better for international dilomacy, better
for housing, better economic managers, and better for families, law
and order
Cites? And not just rhtoric but actual cites with analysis and comparisons with
any other government this century.
Waiting.
How disappointing, no evidence to support what Rich posted.
Perhaps this government is consistently better at promises and terrible at
delivery (which year was that again?).
No surprises at Rich failing to provide evidence of yet more of his lies :)
Neither you or Tony has been able to show any evidence against any one
of them.

Labour is achieving something however:
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/latest-political-poll-judith-collins-plummets-in-preferred-pm-stakes/FTSYMC3FHJGGNSHVR2HS6HL5AE/
Tony
2021-05-16 21:08:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 15 May 2021 21:54:11 -0700 (PDT), John Bowes
Post by John Bowes
Post by Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Gordon
Post by Crash
"Indeed the pay freeze fiasco could well be the frosty harbinger of a
broader winter of discontent to come, discontent that the Government
can?t simply talk away. Until recently, effective communication has
been one of this Government?s core skills if not signature
achievements. However we?re now seeing a decline in that skill set and
the Government could well be facing a winter of too many pigs with not
enough lipstick."
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/yesterdaze-to-freeze-or-not-to-freeze
From the link above
Simon Bridges has written a book, which poses an obvious question -
what did he do for the rest of the afternoon?
Anyhow I do think that the Governments defence is starting to wear thin in
places. You can fool everyone for some of the time, but not all of the time.
With the vacination programme completed we will have crossed the river and
now can switch horses. Having done a great job on the Covid-19 case it is
necessary to keep moving as people will soon forget COVID-19, after all to
date only 26 people have died. Now if it was 2,600 and increasing people
would remember it for longer. Of course the Government would be tossed out
pronto.
We are likely to need another vaccination next year. We are also
seeing that we do not want to have another community lock-down -
either full or partial. Travel overseas is likely to be restricted for
some time - the experience of being unable to return from some
countries without a lot of difficulty is becoming better known.
Post by Gordon
What Labour has to do is to start thinking through it policies, or at least
show/convience the public that they are good for NZ as a whole. Without this
we will have the realisation dawning on the voters that while this
Government was good on Covid-19 they are not so on just about everything
else.
Try looking at the list of other achievements then - they have
consistently shown that they are better for emplyment, better for
business, better for health, better for international dilomacy, better
for housing, better economic managers, and better for families, law
and order
Cites? And not just rhtoric but actual cites with analysis and comparisons with
any other government this century.
Waiting.
How disappointing, no evidence to support what Rich posted.
Perhaps this government is consistently better at promises and terrible at
delivery (which year was that again?).
No surprises at Rich failing to provide evidence of yet more of his lies :)
Neither you or Tony has been able to show any evidence against any one
of them.
You are the one that should be providing evidence of success by this
government. It is not for me to prove otherwise, however that is actually easy.
Where is your evidence, where are the cites?
Post by Rich80105
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/latest-political-poll-judith-collins-plummets-in-preferred-pm-stakes/FTSYMC3FHJGGNSHVR2HS6HL5AE/
No mention from you of the reduction in popularity of the PM, people are
finally beginning to wake up and realise that she is just flim-flam.
James Christophers
2021-05-17 00:37:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 15 May 2021 21:54:11 -0700 (PDT), John Bowes
Post by John Bowes
Post by Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Gordon
Post by Crash
"Indeed the pay freeze fiasco could well be the frosty harbinger of a
broader winter of discontent to come, discontent that the Government
can?t simply talk away. Until recently, effective communication has
been one of this Government?s core skills if not signature
achievements. However we?re now seeing a decline in that skill set and
the Government could well be facing a winter of too many pigs with not
enough lipstick."
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/yesterdaze-to-freeze-or-not-to-freeze
From the link above
Simon Bridges has written a book, which poses an obvious question -
what did he do for the rest of the afternoon?
Anyhow I do think that the Governments defence is starting to wear thin in
places. You can fool everyone for some of the time, but not all of the time.
With the vacination programme completed we will have crossed the river and
now can switch horses. Having done a great job on the Covid-19 case it is
necessary to keep moving as people will soon forget COVID-19, after all to
date only 26 people have died. Now if it was 2,600 and increasing people
would remember it for longer. Of course the Government would be tossed out
pronto.
We are likely to need another vaccination next year. We are also
seeing that we do not want to have another community lock-down -
either full or partial. Travel overseas is likely to be restricted for
some time - the experience of being unable to return from some
countries without a lot of difficulty is becoming better known.
Post by Gordon
What Labour has to do is to start thinking through it policies, or at least
show/convience the public that they are good for NZ as a whole. Without this
we will have the realisation dawning on the voters that while this
Government was good on Covid-19 they are not so on just about everything
else.
Try looking at the list of other achievements then - they have
consistently shown that they are better for emplyment, better for
business, better for health, better for international dilomacy, better
for housing, better economic managers, and better for families, law
and order
Cites? And not just rhtoric but actual cites with analysis and comparisons with
any other government this century.
Waiting.
How disappointing, no evidence to support what Rich posted.
Perhaps this government is consistently better at promises and terrible at
delivery (which year was that again?).
No surprises at Rich failing to provide evidence of yet more of his lies :)
Neither you or Tony has been able to show any evidence against any one
of them.
You are the one that should be providing evidence of success by this
government.
The evidence of this government's success lies in its having so far not only survived its own failings - for which it is being continually exposed and castigated, and (in part) rightly so - but having done so while largely maintaining its overall poise and character as an agreeable "party of the people".

National portrays itself as anything but agreeable. And as for "poise and character" - WTF? - hobbled as it is with an unattractive, vote-losing leader who spends more and more of her time slogging away as hard as she can towards her own ouster, her Herculean efforts at self-immolation only to be frustrated by the dismal absence of a willing and credible challenger. A walking, talking débâcle in her own right, she is now even beginning to affect a Shipley-esque persona. And you know exactly where that got usurper Shipley, don't you?

So simply think of the National Party as an overbrimming, all-in-one poisoned chalice, and you get the essence of it. Fact is, any possible challenger already has.
Post by Tony
It is not for me to prove otherwise, however that is actually easy.
Indeed so. What could be easier than for one not to prove anything?
Post by Tony
Where is your evidence, where are the cites?
Post by Rich80105
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/latest-political-poll-judith-collins-plummets-in-preferred-pm-stakes/FTSYMC3FHJGGNSHVR2HS6HL5AE/
No mention from you of the reduction in popularity of the PM, people are
finally beginning to wake up and realise that she is just flim-flam.
Maybe but unlike the luckless Collins's, Ardern's numbers are a mere variation from a consistently high average. Aut you can take it that with both Collins and National belly up in their own slough of despair and despond, Arden's as good as yer gonna get for the time being, barring some unforeseen hiccup.

Enjoy, then, even if only because Ardern provides this nation with a gutsy young woman for New Zealand's hoardes of loser-misogynists to bitch about.
James Christophers
2021-05-17 04:38:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 15 May 2021 21:54:11 -0700 (PDT), John Bowes
Post by John Bowes
Post by Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Gordon
Post by Crash
"Indeed the pay freeze fiasco could well be the frosty harbinger of
a
broader winter of discontent to come, discontent that the Government
can?t simply talk away. Until recently, effective communication has
been one of this Government?s core skills if not signature
achievements. However we?re now seeing a decline in that skill set
and
the Government could well be facing a winter of too many pigs with
not
enough lipstick."
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/yesterdaze-to-freeze-or-not-to-freeze
From the link above
Simon Bridges has written a book, which poses an obvious question -
what did he do for the rest of the afternoon?
Anyhow I do think that the Governments defence is starting to wear
thin
in
places. You can fool everyone for some of the time, but not all of
the
time.
With the vacination programme completed we will have crossed the
river
and
now can switch horses. Having done a great job on the Covid-19 case
it
is
necessary to keep moving as people will soon forget COVID-19, after
all
to
date only 26 people have died. Now if it was 2,600 and increasing
people
would remember it for longer. Of course the Government would be
tossed
out
pronto.
We are likely to need another vaccination next year. We are also
seeing that we do not want to have another community lock-down -
either full or partial. Travel overseas is likely to be restricted for
some time - the experience of being unable to return from some
countries without a lot of difficulty is becoming better known.
Post by Gordon
What Labour has to do is to start thinking through it policies, or at
least
show/convience the public that they are good for NZ as a whole.
Without
this
we will have the realisation dawning on the voters that while this
Government was good on Covid-19 they are not so on just about
everything
else.
Try looking at the list of other achievements then - they have
consistently shown that they are better for emplyment, better for
business, better for health, better for international dilomacy, better
for housing, better economic managers, and better for families, law
and order
Cites? And not just rhtoric but actual cites with analysis and
comparisons
with
any other government this century.
Waiting.
How disappointing, no evidence to support what Rich posted.
Perhaps this government is consistently better at promises and terrible at
delivery (which year was that again?).
No surprises at Rich failing to provide evidence of yet more of his lies :)
Neither you or Tony has been able to show any evidence against any one
of them.
You are the one that should be providing evidence of success by this
government.
The evidence of this government's success lies in its having so far not only
survived its own failings - for which it is being continually exposed and
castigated, and (in part) rightly so - but having done so while largely
maintaining its overall poise and character as an agreeable "party of the
people".
National portrays itself as anything but agreeable. And as for "poise and
character" - WTF? - hobbled as it is with an unattractive, vote-losing leader
who spends more and more of her time slogging away as hard as she can towards
her own ouster, her Herculean efforts at self-immolation only to be frustrated
by the dismal absence of a willing and credible challenger. A walking, talking
débâcle in her own right, she is now even beginning to affect a Shipley-esque
persona. And you know exactly where that got usurper Shipley, don't you?
So simply think of the National Party as an overbrimming, all-in-one poisoned
chalice, and you get the essence of it. Fact is, any possible challenger
already has.
I don't care about National, that is nothing to do with my comments. This is
about the government.
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
It is not for me to prove otherwise, however that is actually easy.
Indeed so. What could be easier than for one not to prove anything?
Indeed, and Rich has done that handsomely.
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Where is your evidence, where are the cites?
Post by Rich80105
Post by John Bowes
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/latest-political-poll-judith-collins-plummets-in-preferred-pm-stakes/FTSYMC3FHJGGNSHVR2HS6HL5AE/
No mention from you of the reduction in popularity of the PM, people are
finally beginning to wake up and realise that she is just flim-flam.
Maybe but unlike the luckless Collins's, Ardern's numbers are a mere variation
from a consistently high average. And you can take it that with both Collins
and National belly up in their own slough of despair and despond, Arden's as
good as yer gonna get for the time being, barring some unforeseen hiccup.
Once more, this this not about Collins or National.
It is **all** about a near-moribund Collins and National who have lost the plot, allowing Labour to go about things virtually unencumbered by a too-close-for-comfort parliamentary majority or Collins and National shooting blanks from their now exhausted political armoury.
Post by James Christophers
Enjoy, then, even if only because Ardern provides this nation with a gutsy
young woman for New Zealand's hordes of loser-misogynists to bitch about.
I have never bitched about her, she simply does not fool me.
Never deny something for which you have not been personally fingered. And you do do a lot of it, don't you? Makes you look twitchy, watchful, paranoid, even - the latter acknowledged as the handmaiden of narcissism.
Unlike those that adore her.
Many adored Mussolini; millions more adored Trump and still do. The same went for John Key - and still does - mostly from the thicker end of New Zealand's right-wing spectrum.

But no one needs to adore Ardern. She just "is", and by being "is" - **and in the driving seat**, yet without in any way showing the faintest sign of gloating or schedenfreude over Collins's self-inflicted travails - she gains further strength more or less by default.

Like it or not, politics is a game. And in this instance, Collins and National keep handing the initiative to Ardern on a plate. They just can't help themselves. Even they know it.

As does the voting population at large.

Thus yer stumbling, fumbling National Party: John Key's ignoble legacy of boundless complacency and neglect, and all of it passed off with a smirk.
Tony
2021-05-17 04:59:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 15 May 2021 21:54:11 -0700 (PDT), John Bowes
Post by John Bowes
Post by Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Gordon
Post by Crash
"Indeed the pay freeze fiasco could well be the frosty harbinger
of
a
broader winter of discontent to come, discontent that the
Government
can?t simply talk away. Until recently, effective communication
has
been one of this Government?s core skills if not signature
achievements. However we?re now seeing a decline in that skill set
and
the Government could well be facing a winter of too many pigs with
not
enough lipstick."
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/yesterdaze-to-freeze-or-not-to-freeze
From the link above
Simon Bridges has written a book, which poses an obvious question -
what did he do for the rest of the afternoon?
Anyhow I do think that the Governments defence is starting to wear
thin
in
places. You can fool everyone for some of the time, but not all of
the
time.
With the vacination programme completed we will have crossed the
river
and
now can switch horses. Having done a great job on the Covid-19 case
it
is
necessary to keep moving as people will soon forget COVID-19, after
all
to
date only 26 people have died. Now if it was 2,600 and increasing
people
would remember it for longer. Of course the Government would be
tossed
out
pronto.
We are likely to need another vaccination next year. We are also
seeing that we do not want to have another community lock-down -
either full or partial. Travel overseas is likely to be restricted for
some time - the experience of being unable to return from some
countries without a lot of difficulty is becoming better known.
Post by Gordon
What Labour has to do is to start thinking through it policies, or at
least
show/convience the public that they are good for NZ as a whole.
Without
this
we will have the realisation dawning on the voters that while this
Government was good on Covid-19 they are not so on just about
everything
else.
Try looking at the list of other achievements then - they have
consistently shown that they are better for emplyment, better for
business, better for health, better for international dilomacy, better
for housing, better economic managers, and better for families, law
and order
Cites? And not just rhtoric but actual cites with analysis and
comparisons
with
any other government this century.
Waiting.
How disappointing, no evidence to support what Rich posted.
Perhaps this government is consistently better at promises and
terrible
at
delivery (which year was that again?).
No surprises at Rich failing to provide evidence of yet more of his
lies
:)
Neither you or Tony has been able to show any evidence against any one
of them.
You are the one that should be providing evidence of success by this
government.
The evidence of this government's success lies in its having so far not only
survived its own failings - for which it is being continually exposed and
castigated, and (in part) rightly so - but having done so while largely
maintaining its overall poise and character as an agreeable "party of the
people".
National portrays itself as anything but agreeable. And as for "poise and
character" - WTF? - hobbled as it is with an unattractive, vote-losing leader
who spends more and more of her time slogging away as hard as she can towards
her own ouster, her Herculean efforts at self-immolation only to be frustrated
by the dismal absence of a willing and credible challenger. A walking, talking
débâcle in her own right, she is now even beginning to affect a
Shipley-esque
persona. And you know exactly where that got usurper Shipley, don't you?
So simply think of the National Party as an overbrimming, all-in-one poisoned
chalice, and you get the essence of it. Fact is, any possible challenger
already has.
I don't care about National, that is nothing to do with my comments. This is
about the government.
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
It is not for me to prove otherwise, however that is actually easy.
Indeed so. What could be easier than for one not to prove anything?
Indeed, and Rich has done that handsomely.
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Where is your evidence, where are the cites?
Post by Rich80105
Post by John Bowes
Post by Tony
Post by Tony
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/latest-political-poll-judith-collins-plummets-in-preferred-pm-stakes/FTSYMC3FHJGGNSHVR2HS6HL5AE/
No mention from you of the reduction in popularity of the PM, people are
finally beginning to wake up and realise that she is just flim-flam.
Maybe but unlike the luckless Collins's, Ardern's numbers are a mere variation
from a consistently high average. And you can take it that with both Collins
and National belly up in their own slough of despair and despond, Arden's as
good as yer gonna get for the time being, barring some unforeseen hiccup.
Once more, this this not about Collins or National.
It is **all** about a near-moribund Collins and National who have lost the
plot, allowing Labour to go about things virtually unencumbered by a
too-close-for-comfort parliamentary majority or Collins and National shooting
blanks from their now exhausted political armoury.
Nonsense it is about nothing of the sort. Read Crash's first post.
Post by James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Enjoy, then, even if only because Ardern provides this nation with a gutsy
young woman for New Zealand's hordes of loser-misogynists to bitch about.
I have never bitched about her, she simply does not fool me.
Never deny something for which you have not been personally fingered. And you
do do a lot of it, don't you? Makes you look twitchy, watchful, paranoid, even
- the latter acknowledged as the handmaiden of narcissism.
Irrelevant and abusive. The only paranoid narcisist here is you.
Post by James Christophers
Unlike those that adore her.
Many adored Mussolini; millions more adored Trump and still do. The same went
for John Key - and still does - mostly from the thicker end of New Zealand's
right-wing spectrum.
But no one needs to adore Ardern. She just "is", and by being "is" - **and in
the driving seat**, yet without in any way showing the faintest sign of
gloating or schedenfreude over Collins's self-inflicted travails - she gains
further strength more or less by default.
But they do and for the wrong reasons. I am sure she is a fine woman and mother
but she has yet to show any ability as a leader of a country - she is all
flim-flam.
Post by James Christophers
Like it or not, politics is a game. And in this instance, Collins and National
keep handing the initiative to Ardern on a plate. They just can't help
themselves. Even they know it.
Still off topic.
Post by James Christophers
As does the voting population at large.
Thus yer stumbling, fumbling National Party: John Key's ignoble legacy of
boundless complacency and neglect, and all of it passed off with a smirk.
No, not *my* National party. They have never been *mine*. The only thing more
sure than that is that they have never been yours. You have never understood
people like me and you never will. What makes me tick is beyond your ken.
George Black
2021-05-17 19:53:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony
No, not *my* National party. They have never been *mine*. The only thing more
sure than that is that they have never been yours. You have never understood
people like me and you never will. What makes me tick is beyond your ken.
James has his story and tell it he will no matter that it is wrong.
But then what else can you expect from a leftist political apologist
James Christophers
2021-05-18 00:07:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 15 May 2021 21:54:11 -0700 (PDT), John Bowes
Post by John Bowes
Post by Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Gordon
Post by Crash
"Indeed the pay freeze fiasco could well be the frosty harbinger
of
a
broader winter of discontent to come, discontent that the
Government
can?t simply talk away. Until recently, effective communication
has
been one of this Government?s core skills if not signature
achievements. However we?re now seeing a decline in that skill
set
and
the Government could well be facing a winter of too many pigs
with
not
enough lipstick."
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/yesterdaze-to-freeze-or-not-to-freeze
From the link above
Simon Bridges has written a book, which poses an obvious question
-
what did he do for the rest of the afternoon?
Anyhow I do think that the Governments defence is starting to wear
thin
in
places. You can fool everyone for some of the time, but not all of
the
time.
With the vacination programme completed we will have crossed the
river
and
now can switch horses. Having done a great job on the Covid-19
case
it
is
necessary to keep moving as people will soon forget COVID-19,
after
all
to
date only 26 people have died. Now if it was 2,600 and increasing
people
would remember it for longer. Of course the Government would be
tossed
out
pronto.
We are likely to need another vaccination next year. We are also
seeing that we do not want to have another community lock-down -
either full or partial. Travel overseas is likely to be restricted
for
some time - the experience of being unable to return from some
countries without a lot of difficulty is becoming better known.
Post by Gordon
What Labour has to do is to start thinking through it policies, or
at
least
show/convience the public that they are good for NZ as a whole.
Without
this
we will have the realisation dawning on the voters that while this
Government was good on Covid-19 they are not so on just about
everything
else.
Try looking at the list of other achievements then - they have
consistently shown that they are better for emplyment, better for
business, better for health, better for international dilomacy,
better
for housing, better economic managers, and better for families, law
and order
Cites? And not just rhtoric but actual cites with analysis and
comparisons
with
any other government this century.
Waiting.
How disappointing, no evidence to support what Rich posted.
Perhaps this government is consistently better at promises and
terrible
at
delivery (which year was that again?).
No surprises at Rich failing to provide evidence of yet more of his
lies
:)
Neither you or Tony has been able to show any evidence against any one
of them.
You are the one that should be providing evidence of success by this
government.
The evidence of this government's success lies in its having so far not only
survived its own failings - for which it is being continually exposed and
castigated, and (in part) rightly so - but having done so while largely
maintaining its overall poise and character as an agreeable "party of the
people".
National portrays itself as anything but agreeable. And as for "poise and
character" - WTF? - hobbled as it is with an unattractive, vote-losing leader
who spends more and more of her time slogging away as hard as she can towards
her own ouster, her Herculean efforts at self-immolation only to be frustrated
by the dismal absence of a willing and credible challenger. A walking, talking
débâcle in her own right, she is now even beginning to affect a Shipley-esque
persona. And you know exactly where that got usurper Shipley, don't you?
So simply think of the National Party as an overbrimming, all-in-one poisoned
chalice, and you get the essence of it. Fact is, any possible challenger
already has.
I don't care about National, that is nothing to do with my comments. This is
about the government.
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
It is not for me to prove otherwise, however that is actually easy.
Indeed so. What could be easier than for one not to prove anything?
Indeed, and Rich has done that handsomely.
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Where is your evidence, where are the cites?
Post by Rich80105
Post by John Bowes
Post by Tony
Post by Tony
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/latest-political-poll-judith-collins-plummets-in-preferred-pm-stakes/FTSYMC3FHJGGNSHVR2HS6HL5AE/
No mention from you of the reduction in popularity of the PM, people are
finally beginning to wake up and realise that she is just flim-flam.
Maybe but unlike the luckless Collins's, Ardern's numbers are a mere variation
from a consistently high average. And you can take it that with both Collins
and National belly up in their own slough of despair and despond, Arden's as
good as yer gonna get for the time being, barring some unforeseen hiccup.
Once more, this this not about Collins or National.
But Elliot's article is about Collins and National - plus Labour - and it is Elliot's article that Crash has put up for debate.

Read the article and you'll realise the essence of what you would call " the topic" is in Crash's header, the last three words being the nub of the whole thing: "...when humour bites". This leaves the whole topic wide open for further commentary on the understated **substance** behind the entire piece which in more or less equal measure makes fun of the shortcomings of all three protagonists: the sitting government, Bridges and Collins. Elliot reserves a special place in his heart for the stumbling, fumbling Bridges, metaphorically putting the poor bastard out of his misery once and for all with his deft coup-de-grâce, "National Oydentity"[2] - the unkindest cut of all. But this is not to say that Elliot has not subtly addressed the feast of underlying problems, albeit obliquely and also plainly for his own, and your, sweet savouring. He's writing for fun because he's good at it.

So here, again, a little leavening of the discourse from time to time makes for a more balanced perspective, particularly when those who must repeatedly argue every nit-picking detail over issues **they know full well** they themselves are powerless to act on, inevitably make holy fools of themselves. Insistently pressing on others one's own earnestness of purpose while simultaneously lacking even the faintest clue how **actually** to pursue it one's self is strictly for the compulsive twits of this world.

Prior to the 2017 election, I said in plain words that the aspirant Labour Party hadn't a hope of meeting the avalanche of policies and projects it had announced. I then called it "irrational exuberance" - "pie in the sky".

And so it has turned out. Where it matters, and from all sides and for a multitude of reasons, virtually the entire show has been hobbled from the very outset, this made only worse and ever-increasingly difficult both by a seriously ailing infrastructure this country cannot **now** afford to replace let alone fully remediate[3], and more recent Act of God events et al - "The best laid plans of mice and men...".

So I for one am not disappointed by Labour at all. What I see is, to the greater degree, more or less what I had expected all along simply because I'm a realist. Summed up:

The higher one's expectations, the greater one's risk of disappointment. And that goes s much for National as it does for any other party. Simply, our political class is mediocre and certainly not up to the task of efficient, effective governance. What's more, it seldom has been for at least the past 30 years, this due in large part to a complacent and compliant voting populace and a parochial parish-pump Fourth Estate that for the most part should hang its head in shame.

[1] The pantheon:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_former_Footlights_members

[2] Correction: "Nish-know Oydentity".

[3] Institutional drift and neglect, raised and fostered by institutional self-satisfaction and complacency.
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
It is **all** about a near-moribund Collins and National who have lost the
plot, allowing Labour to go about things virtually unencumbered by a
too-close-for-comfort parliamentary majority or Collins and National shooting
blanks from their now exhausted political armoury.
Nonsense it is about nothing of the sort. Read Crash's first post.
Post by James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Enjoy, then, even if only because Ardern provides this nation with a gutsy
young woman for New Zealand's hordes of loser-misogynists to bitch about.
I have never bitched about her, she simply does not fool me.
Never deny something for which you have not been personally fingered. And you
do do a lot of it, don't you? Makes you look twitchy, watchful, paranoid, even
- the latter acknowledged as the handmaiden of narcissism.
Irrelevant and abusive. The only paranoid narcisist here is you.
Post by James Christophers
Unlike those that adore her.
Many adored Mussolini; millions more adored Trump and still do. The same went
for John Key - and still does - mostly from the thicker end of New Zealand's
right-wing spectrum.
But no one needs to adore Ardern. She just "is", and by being "is" - **and in
the driving seat**, yet without in any way showing the faintest sign of
gloating or schadenfreude over Collins's self-inflicted travails - she gains
further strength more or less by default.
But they do and for the wrong reasons.
You judge those no less able than yourself to make such judgements
Post by Tony
I am sure she is a fine woman and mother
but she has yet to show any ability as a leader of a country - she is all
flim-flam.
Post by James Christophers
Like it or not, politics is a game. And in this instance, Collins and National
keep handing the initiative to Ardern on a plate. They just can't help
themselves. Even they know it.
Still off topic.
Post by James Christophers
As does the voting population at large.
Thus yer stumbling, fumbling National Party: John Key's ignoble legacy of
boundless complacency and neglect, and all of it passed off with a smirk.
No, not *my* National party. They have never been *mine*.
In terms of behaviours and their consequences, they are as much your millstone as anyone else's.
Post by Tony
The only thing more sure than that is that they have never been yours.
They have been and will always be every New Zealanders.
Tony
2021-05-18 02:24:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 15 May 2021 21:54:11 -0700 (PDT), John Bowes
Post by John Bowes
Post by Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Gordon
Post by Crash
"Indeed the pay freeze fiasco could well be the frosty
harbinger
of
a
broader winter of discontent to come, discontent that the
Government
can?t simply talk away. Until recently, effective
communication
has
been one of this Government?s core skills if not signature
achievements. However we?re now seeing a decline in that
skill
set
and
the Government could well be facing a winter of too many pigs
with
not
enough lipstick."
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/yesterdaze-to-freeze-or-not-to-freeze
From the link above
Simon Bridges has written a book, which poses an obvious
question
-
what did he do for the rest of the afternoon?
Anyhow I do think that the Governments defence is starting to
wear
thin
in
places. You can fool everyone for some of the time, but not all
of
the
time.
With the vacination programme completed we will have crossed
the
river
and
now can switch horses. Having done a great job on the Covid-19
case
it
is
necessary to keep moving as people will soon forget COVID-19,
after
all
to
date only 26 people have died. Now if it was 2,600 and
increasing
people
would remember it for longer. Of course the Government would be
tossed
out
pronto.
We are likely to need another vaccination next year. We are also
seeing that we do not want to have another community lock-down -
either full or partial. Travel overseas is likely to be
restricted
for
some time - the experience of being unable to return from some
countries without a lot of difficulty is becoming better known.
Post by Gordon
What Labour has to do is to start thinking through it policies,
or
at
least
show/convience the public that they are good for NZ as a whole.
Without
this
we will have the realisation dawning on the voters that while
this
Government was good on Covid-19 they are not so on just about
everything
else.
Try looking at the list of other achievements then - they have
consistently shown that they are better for emplyment, better for
business, better for health, better for international dilomacy,
better
for housing, better economic managers, and better for families,
law
and order
Cites? And not just rhtoric but actual cites with analysis and
comparisons
with
any other government this century.
Waiting.
How disappointing, no evidence to support what Rich posted.
Perhaps this government is consistently better at promises and
terrible
at
delivery (which year was that again?).
No surprises at Rich failing to provide evidence of yet more of his
lies
:)
Neither you or Tony has been able to show any evidence against any one
of them.
You are the one that should be providing evidence of success by this
government.
The evidence of this government's success lies in its having so far not only
survived its own failings - for which it is being continually exposed and
castigated, and (in part) rightly so - but having done so while largely
maintaining its overall poise and character as an agreeable "party of the
people".
National portrays itself as anything but agreeable. And as for "poise and
character" - WTF? - hobbled as it is with an unattractive, vote-losing leader
who spends more and more of her time slogging away as hard as she can towards
her own ouster, her Herculean efforts at self-immolation only to be frustrated
by the dismal absence of a willing and credible challenger. A walking, talking
débâcle in her own right, she is now even beginning to affect a
Shipley-esque
persona. And you know exactly where that got usurper Shipley, don't you?
So simply think of the National Party as an overbrimming, all-in-one poisoned
chalice, and you get the essence of it. Fact is, any possible challenger
already has.
I don't care about National, that is nothing to do with my comments. This is
about the government.
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
It is not for me to prove otherwise, however that is actually easy.
Indeed so. What could be easier than for one not to prove anything?
Indeed, and Rich has done that handsomely.
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Where is your evidence, where are the cites?
Post by Rich80105
Post by John Bowes
Post by Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Gordon
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/latest-political-poll-judith-collins-plummets-in-preferred-pm-stakes/FTSYMC3FHJGGNSHVR2HS6HL5AE/
No mention from you of the reduction in popularity of the PM, people are
finally beginning to wake up and realise that she is just flim-flam.
Maybe but unlike the luckless Collins's, Ardern's numbers are a mere variation
from a consistently high average. And you can take it that with both Collins
and National belly up in their own slough of despair and despond,
Arden's
as
good as yer gonna get for the time being, barring some unforeseen hiccup.
Once more, this this not about Collins or National.
But Elliot's article is about Collins and National - plus Labour - and it is
Elliot's article that Crash has put up for debate.
Read the article and you'll realise the essence of what you would call " the
topic" is in Crash's header, the last three words being the nub of the whole
thing: "...when humour bites". This leaves the whole topic wide open for
further commentary on the understated **substance** behind the entire piece
which in more or less equal measure makes fun of the shortcomings of all three
protagonists: the sitting government, Bridges and Collins. Elliot reserves a
special place in his heart for the stumbling, fumbling Bridges, metaphorically
putting the poor bastard out of his misery once and for all with his deft
coup-de-grâce, "National Oydentity"[2] - the unkindest cut of all. But this is
not to say that Elliot has not subtly addressed the feast of underlying
problems, albeit obliquely and also plainly for his own, and your, sweet
savouring. He's writing for fun because he's good at it.
So here, again, a little leavening of the discourse from time to time makes
for a more balanced perspective, particularly when those who must repeatedly
argue every nit-picking detail over issues **they know full well** they
themselves are powerless to act on, inevitably make holy fools of themselves.
Insistently pressing on others one's own earnestness of purpose while
simultaneously lacking even the faintest clue how **actually** to pursue it
one's self is strictly for the compulsive twits of this world.
Prior to the 2017 election, I said in plain words that the aspirant Labour
Party hadn't a hope of meeting the avalanche of policies and projects it had
announced. I then called it "irrational exuberance" - "pie in the sky".
And so it has turned out. Where it matters, and from all sides and for a
multitude of reasons, virtually the entire show has been hobbled from the very
outset, this made only worse and ever-increasingly difficult both by a
seriously ailing infrastructure this country cannot **now** afford to replace
let alone fully remediate[3], and more recent Act of God events et al - "The
best laid plans of mice and men...".
So I for one am not disappointed by Labour at all. What I see is, to the
greater degree, more or less what I had expected all along simply because I'm a
The higher one's expectations, the greater one's risk of disappointment. And
that goes s much for National as it does for any other party. Simply, our
political class is mediocre and certainly not up to the task of efficient,
effective governance. What's more, it seldom has been for at least the past 30
years, this due in large part to a complacent and compliant voting populace and
a parochial parish-pump Fourth Estate that for the most part should hang its
head in shame.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_former_Footlights_members
[2] Correction: "Nish-know Oydentity".
[3] Institutional drift and neglect, raised and fostered by institutional
self-satisfaction and complacency.
No the article is primarily about the government and their badly managed "pay
freeze" announcement.
Yes it also mentiuons National but not as the main issue.
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
It is **all** about a near-moribund Collins and National who have lost the
plot, allowing Labour to go about things virtually unencumbered by a
too-close-for-comfort parliamentary majority or Collins and National shooting
blanks from their now exhausted political armoury.
Nonsense it is about nothing of the sort. Read Crash's first post.
Post by James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Enjoy, then, even if only because Ardern provides this nation with a gutsy
young woman for New Zealand's hordes of loser-misogynists to bitch about.
I have never bitched about her, she simply does not fool me.
Never deny something for which you have not been personally fingered. And you
do do a lot of it, don't you? Makes you look twitchy, watchful, paranoid, even
- the latter acknowledged as the handmaiden of narcissism.
Irrelevant and abusive. The only paranoid narcisist here is you.
Post by James Christophers
Unlike those that adore her.
Many adored Mussolini; millions more adored Trump and still do. The same went
for John Key - and still does - mostly from the thicker end of New Zealand's
right-wing spectrum.
But no one needs to adore Ardern. She just "is", and by being "is" - **and in
the driving seat**, yet without in any way showing the faintest sign of
gloating or schadenfreude over Collins's self-inflicted travails - she gains
further strength more or less by default.
But they do and for the wrong reasons.
You judge those no less able than yourself to make such judgements
Post by Tony
I am sure she is a fine woman and mother
but she has yet to show any ability as a leader of a country - she is all
flim-flam.
Post by James Christophers
Like it or not, politics is a game. And in this instance, Collins and National
keep handing the initiative to Ardern on a plate. They just can't help
themselves. Even they know it.
Still off topic.
Post by James Christophers
As does the voting population at large.
Thus yer stumbling, fumbling National Party: John Key's ignoble legacy of
boundless complacency and neglect, and all of it passed off with a smirk.
No, not *my* National party. They have never been *mine*.
In terms of behaviours and their consequences, they are as much your millstone
as anyone else's.
Post by Tony
The only thing more sure than that is that they have never been yours.
They have been and will always be every New Zealanders.
Rich80105
2021-05-18 03:25:12 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 17 May 2021 21:24:34 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 15 May 2021 21:54:11 -0700 (PDT), John Bowes
Post by John Bowes
Post by Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Gordon
Post by Crash
"Indeed the pay freeze fiasco could well be the frosty
harbinger
of
a
broader winter of discontent to come, discontent that the
Government
can?t simply talk away. Until recently, effective
communication
has
been one of this Government?s core skills if not signature
achievements. However we?re now seeing a decline in that
skill
set
and
the Government could well be facing a winter of too many pigs
with
not
enough lipstick."
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/yesterdaze-to-freeze-or-not-to-freeze
From the link above
Simon Bridges has written a book, which poses an obvious
question
-
what did he do for the rest of the afternoon?
Anyhow I do think that the Governments defence is starting to
wear
thin
in
places. You can fool everyone for some of the time, but not all
of
the
time.
With the vacination programme completed we will have crossed
the
river
and
now can switch horses. Having done a great job on the Covid-19
case
it
is
necessary to keep moving as people will soon forget COVID-19,
after
all
to
date only 26 people have died. Now if it was 2,600 and
increasing
people
would remember it for longer. Of course the Government would be
tossed
out
pronto.
We are likely to need another vaccination next year. We are also
seeing that we do not want to have another community lock-down -
either full or partial. Travel overseas is likely to be
restricted
for
some time - the experience of being unable to return from some
countries without a lot of difficulty is becoming better known.
Post by Gordon
What Labour has to do is to start thinking through it policies,
or
at
least
show/convience the public that they are good for NZ as a whole.
Without
this
we will have the realisation dawning on the voters that while
this
Government was good on Covid-19 they are not so on just about
everything
else.
Try looking at the list of other achievements then - they have
consistently shown that they are better for emplyment, better
for
business, better for health, better for international dilomacy,
better
for housing, better economic managers, and better for families,
law
and order
Cites? And not just rhtoric but actual cites with analysis and
comparisons
with
any other government this century.
Waiting.
How disappointing, no evidence to support what Rich posted.
Perhaps this government is consistently better at promises and
terrible
at
delivery (which year was that again?).
No surprises at Rich failing to provide evidence of yet more of his
lies
:)
Neither you or Tony has been able to show any evidence against any one
of them.
You are the one that should be providing evidence of success by this
government.
The evidence of this government's success lies in its having so far not only
survived its own failings - for which it is being continually exposed and
castigated, and (in part) rightly so - but having done so while largely
maintaining its overall poise and character as an agreeable "party of the
people".
National portrays itself as anything but agreeable. And as for "poise and
character" - WTF? - hobbled as it is with an unattractive, vote-losing leader
who spends more and more of her time slogging away as hard as she can towards
her own ouster, her Herculean efforts at self-immolation only to be frustrated
by the dismal absence of a willing and credible challenger. A walking, talking
débâcle in her own right, she is now even beginning to affect a
Shipley-esque
persona. And you know exactly where that got usurper Shipley, don't you?
So simply think of the National Party as an overbrimming, all-in-one poisoned
chalice, and you get the essence of it. Fact is, any possible challenger
already has.
I don't care about National, that is nothing to do with my comments. This is
about the government.
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
It is not for me to prove otherwise, however that is actually easy.
Indeed so. What could be easier than for one not to prove anything?
Indeed, and Rich has done that handsomely.
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Where is your evidence, where are the cites?
Post by Rich80105
Post by John Bowes
Post by Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Gordon
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/latest-political-poll-judith-collins-plummets-in-preferred-pm-stakes/FTSYMC3FHJGGNSHVR2HS6HL5AE/
No mention from you of the reduction in popularity of the PM, people are
finally beginning to wake up and realise that she is just flim-flam.
Maybe but unlike the luckless Collins's, Ardern's numbers are a mere variation
from a consistently high average. And you can take it that with both Collins
and National belly up in their own slough of despair and despond,
Arden's
as
good as yer gonna get for the time being, barring some unforeseen hiccup.
Once more, this this not about Collins or National.
But Elliot's article is about Collins and National - plus Labour - and it is
Elliot's article that Crash has put up for debate.
Read the article and you'll realise the essence of what you would call " the
topic" is in Crash's header, the last three words being the nub of the whole
thing: "...when humour bites". This leaves the whole topic wide open for
further commentary on the understated **substance** behind the entire piece
which in more or less equal measure makes fun of the shortcomings of all three
protagonists: the sitting government, Bridges and Collins. Elliot reserves a
special place in his heart for the stumbling, fumbling Bridges, metaphorically
putting the poor bastard out of his misery once and for all with his deft
coup-de-grâce, "National Oydentity"[2] - the unkindest cut of all. But this is
not to say that Elliot has not subtly addressed the feast of underlying
problems, albeit obliquely and also plainly for his own, and your, sweet
savouring. He's writing for fun because he's good at it.
So here, again, a little leavening of the discourse from time to time makes
for a more balanced perspective, particularly when those who must repeatedly
argue every nit-picking detail over issues **they know full well** they
themselves are powerless to act on, inevitably make holy fools of themselves.
Insistently pressing on others one's own earnestness of purpose while
simultaneously lacking even the faintest clue how **actually** to pursue it
one's self is strictly for the compulsive twits of this world.
Prior to the 2017 election, I said in plain words that the aspirant Labour
Party hadn't a hope of meeting the avalanche of policies and projects it had
announced. I then called it "irrational exuberance" - "pie in the sky".
And so it has turned out. Where it matters, and from all sides and for a
multitude of reasons, virtually the entire show has been hobbled from the very
outset, this made only worse and ever-increasingly difficult both by a
seriously ailing infrastructure this country cannot **now** afford to replace
let alone fully remediate[3], and more recent Act of God events et al - "The
best laid plans of mice and men...".
So I for one am not disappointed by Labour at all. What I see is, to the
greater degree, more or less what I had expected all along simply because I'm a
The higher one's expectations, the greater one's risk of disappointment. And
that goes s much for National as it does for any other party. Simply, our
political class is mediocre and certainly not up to the task of efficient,
effective governance. What's more, it seldom has been for at least the past 30
years, this due in large part to a complacent and compliant voting populace and
a parochial parish-pump Fourth Estate that for the most part should hang its
head in shame.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_former_Footlights_members
[2] Correction: "Nish-know Oydentity".
[3] Institutional drift and neglect, raised and fostered by institutional
self-satisfaction and complacency.
No the article is primarily about the government and their badly managed "pay
freeze" announcement.
Yes it also mentiuons National but not as the main issue.
Looking back through the list of posters below the reference to you
above, Tony; you should remonstrate with the principle offender
against keeping to the topic, one "undefined" . . . .

But don't get yourself all het up over nothing look for the humour in
the discussion . . .
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
It is **all** about a near-moribund Collins and National who have lost the
plot, allowing Labour to go about things virtually unencumbered by a
too-close-for-comfort parliamentary majority or Collins and National shooting
blanks from their now exhausted political armoury.
Nonsense it is about nothing of the sort. Read Crash's first post.
Post by James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Enjoy, then, even if only because Ardern provides this nation with a gutsy
young woman for New Zealand's hordes of loser-misogynists to bitch about.
I have never bitched about her, she simply does not fool me.
Never deny something for which you have not been personally fingered. And you
do do a lot of it, don't you? Makes you look twitchy, watchful, paranoid, even
- the latter acknowledged as the handmaiden of narcissism.
Irrelevant and abusive. The only paranoid narcisist here is you.
Post by James Christophers
Unlike those that adore her.
Many adored Mussolini; millions more adored Trump and still do. The same went
for John Key - and still does - mostly from the thicker end of New Zealand's
right-wing spectrum.
But no one needs to adore Ardern. She just "is", and by being "is" - **and in
the driving seat**, yet without in any way showing the faintest sign of
gloating or schadenfreude over Collins's self-inflicted travails - she gains
further strength more or less by default.
But they do and for the wrong reasons.
You judge those no less able than yourself to make such judgements
Post by Tony
I am sure she is a fine woman and mother
but she has yet to show any ability as a leader of a country - she is all
flim-flam.
Post by James Christophers
Like it or not, politics is a game. And in this instance, Collins and National
keep handing the initiative to Ardern on a plate. They just can't help
themselves. Even they know it.
Still off topic.
Post by James Christophers
As does the voting population at large.
Thus yer stumbling, fumbling National Party: John Key's ignoble legacy of
boundless complacency and neglect, and all of it passed off with a smirk.
No, not *my* National party. They have never been *mine*.
In terms of behaviours and their consequences, they are as much your millstone
as anyone else's.
Post by Tony
The only thing more sure than that is that they have never been yours.
They have been and will always be every New Zealanders.
Tony
2021-05-18 03:42:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 17 May 2021 21:24:34 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 15 May 2021 21:54:11 -0700 (PDT), John Bowes
Post by John Bowes
Post by Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Gordon
Post by Crash
"Indeed the pay freeze fiasco could well be the frosty
harbinger
of
a
broader winter of discontent to come, discontent that the
Government
can?t simply talk away. Until recently, effective
communication
has
been one of this Government?s core skills if not signature
achievements. However we?re now seeing a decline in that
skill
set
and
the Government could well be facing a winter of too many
pigs
with
not
enough lipstick."
Post by Crash
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/yesterdaze-to-freeze-or-not-to-freeze
From the link above
Simon Bridges has written a book, which poses an obvious
question
-
what did he do for the rest of the afternoon?
Anyhow I do think that the Governments defence is starting to
wear
thin
in
places. You can fool everyone for some of the time, but not
all
of
the
time.
With the vacination programme completed we will have crossed
the
river
and
now can switch horses. Having done a great job on the
Covid-19
case
it
is
necessary to keep moving as people will soon forget COVID-19,
after
all
to
date only 26 people have died. Now if it was 2,600 and
increasing
people
would remember it for longer. Of course the Government would
be
tossed
out
pronto.
We are likely to need another vaccination next year. We are
also
seeing that we do not want to have another community lock-down
-
either full or partial. Travel overseas is likely to be
restricted
for
some time - the experience of being unable to return from some
countries without a lot of difficulty is becoming better
known.
Post by Gordon
What Labour has to do is to start thinking through it
policies,
or
at
least
show/convience the public that they are good for NZ as a
whole.
Without
this
we will have the realisation dawning on the voters that while
this
Government was good on Covid-19 they are not so on just about
everything
else.
Try looking at the list of other achievements then - they have
consistently shown that they are better for emplyment, better
for
business, better for health, better for international
dilomacy,
better
for housing, better economic managers, and better for
families,
law
and order
Cites? And not just rhtoric but actual cites with analysis and
comparisons
with
any other government this century.
Waiting.
How disappointing, no evidence to support what Rich posted.
Perhaps this government is consistently better at promises and
terrible
at
delivery (which year was that again?).
No surprises at Rich failing to provide evidence of yet more of his
lies
:)
Neither you or Tony has been able to show any evidence against any one
of them.
You are the one that should be providing evidence of success by this
government.
The evidence of this government's success lies in its having so far
not
only
survived its own failings - for which it is being continually exposed and
castigated, and (in part) rightly so - but having done so while largely
maintaining its overall poise and character as an agreeable "party of the
people".
National portrays itself as anything but agreeable. And as for "poise and
character" - WTF? - hobbled as it is with an unattractive, vote-losing leader
who spends more and more of her time slogging away as hard as she can towards
her own ouster, her Herculean efforts at self-immolation only to be
frustrated
by the dismal absence of a willing and credible challenger. A walking,
talking
débâcle in her own right, she is now even beginning to affect a
Shipley-esque
persona. And you know exactly where that got usurper Shipley, don't you?
So simply think of the National Party as an overbrimming, all-in-one poisoned
chalice, and you get the essence of it. Fact is, any possible challenger
already has.
I don't care about National, that is nothing to do with my comments.
This
is
about the government.
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
It is not for me to prove otherwise, however that is actually easy.
Indeed so. What could be easier than for one not to prove anything?
Indeed, and Rich has done that handsomely.
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Where is your evidence, where are the cites?
Post by Rich80105
Post by John Bowes
Post by Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Gordon
Post by Crash
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/latest-political-poll-judith-collins-plummets-in-preferred-pm-stakes/FTSYMC3FHJGGNSHVR2HS6HL5AE/
No mention from you of the reduction in popularity of the PM, people are
finally beginning to wake up and realise that she is just flim-flam.
Maybe but unlike the luckless Collins's, Ardern's numbers are a mere
variation
from a consistently high average. And you can take it that with both Collins
and National belly up in their own slough of despair and despond,
Arden's
as
good as yer gonna get for the time being, barring some unforeseen hiccup.
Once more, this this not about Collins or National.
But Elliot's article is about Collins and National - plus Labour - and it is
Elliot's article that Crash has put up for debate.
Read the article and you'll realise the essence of what you would call " the
topic" is in Crash's header, the last three words being the nub of the whole
thing: "...when humour bites". This leaves the whole topic wide open for
further commentary on the understated **substance** behind the entire piece
which in more or less equal measure makes fun of the shortcomings of all three
protagonists: the sitting government, Bridges and Collins. Elliot reserves a
special place in his heart for the stumbling, fumbling Bridges, metaphorically
putting the poor bastard out of his misery once and for all with his deft
coup-de-grâce, "National Oydentity"[2] - the unkindest cut of all. But this is
not to say that Elliot has not subtly addressed the feast of underlying
problems, albeit obliquely and also plainly for his own, and your, sweet
savouring. He's writing for fun because he's good at it.
So here, again, a little leavening of the discourse from time to time makes
for a more balanced perspective, particularly when those who must repeatedly
argue every nit-picking detail over issues **they know full well** they
themselves are powerless to act on, inevitably make holy fools of themselves.
Insistently pressing on others one's own earnestness of purpose while
simultaneously lacking even the faintest clue how **actually** to pursue it
one's self is strictly for the compulsive twits of this world.
Prior to the 2017 election, I said in plain words that the aspirant Labour
Party hadn't a hope of meeting the avalanche of policies and projects it had
announced. I then called it "irrational exuberance" - "pie in the sky".
And so it has turned out. Where it matters, and from all sides and for a
multitude of reasons, virtually the entire show has been hobbled from the very
outset, this made only worse and ever-increasingly difficult both by a
seriously ailing infrastructure this country cannot **now** afford to replace
let alone fully remediate[3], and more recent Act of God events et al - "The
best laid plans of mice and men...".
So I for one am not disappointed by Labour at all. What I see is, to the
greater degree, more or less what I had expected all along simply because I'm a
The higher one's expectations, the greater one's risk of disappointment. And
that goes s much for National as it does for any other party. Simply, our
political class is mediocre and certainly not up to the task of efficient,
effective governance. What's more, it seldom has been for at least the past 30
years, this due in large part to a complacent and compliant voting populace and
a parochial parish-pump Fourth Estate that for the most part should hang its
head in shame.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_former_Footlights_members
[2] Correction: "Nish-know Oydentity".
[3] Institutional drift and neglect, raised and fostered by institutional
self-satisfaction and complacency.
No the article is primarily about the government and their badly managed "pay
freeze" announcement.
Yes it also mentiuons National but not as the main issue.
Looking back through the list of posters below the reference to you
above, Tony; you should remonstrate with the principle offender
against keeping to the topic, one "undefined" . . . .
Who is this undefined you keep spouting about?
Post by Rich80105
But don't get yourself all het up over nothing look for the humour in
the discussion . . .
I am not in the least het up. I am used to two people here in particular who
hijack threads. You and James are the major offenders.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
It is **all** about a near-moribund Collins and National who have lost the
plot, allowing Labour to go about things virtually unencumbered by a
too-close-for-comfort parliamentary majority or Collins and National shooting
blanks from their now exhausted political armoury.
Nonsense it is about nothing of the sort. Read Crash's first post.
Post by James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Enjoy, then, even if only because Ardern provides this nation with a gutsy
young woman for New Zealand's hordes of loser-misogynists to bitch about.
I have never bitched about her, she simply does not fool me.
Never deny something for which you have not been personally fingered. And you
do do a lot of it, don't you? Makes you look twitchy, watchful, paranoid, even
- the latter acknowledged as the handmaiden of narcissism.
Irrelevant and abusive. The only paranoid narcisist here is you.
Post by James Christophers
Unlike those that adore her.
Many adored Mussolini; millions more adored Trump and still do. The same went
for John Key - and still does - mostly from the thicker end of New Zealand's
right-wing spectrum.
But no one needs to adore Ardern. She just "is", and by being "is" -
**and
in
the driving seat**, yet without in any way showing the faintest sign of
gloating or schadenfreude over Collins's self-inflicted travails - she gains
further strength more or less by default.
But they do and for the wrong reasons.
You judge those no less able than yourself to make such judgements
Post by Tony
I am sure she is a fine woman and mother
but she has yet to show any ability as a leader of a country - she is all
flim-flam.
Post by James Christophers
Like it or not, politics is a game. And in this instance, Collins and National
keep handing the initiative to Ardern on a plate. They just can't help
themselves. Even they know it.
Still off topic.
Post by James Christophers
As does the voting population at large.
Thus yer stumbling, fumbling National Party: John Key's ignoble legacy of
boundless complacency and neglect, and all of it passed off with a smirk.
No, not *my* National party. They have never been *mine*.
In terms of behaviours and their consequences, they are as much your millstone
as anyone else's.
Post by Tony
The only thing more sure than that is that they have never been yours.
They have been and will always be every New Zealanders.
Rich80105
2021-05-18 05:30:36 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 17 May 2021 22:42:38 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 17 May 2021 21:24:34 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 15 May 2021 21:54:11 -0700 (PDT), John Bowes
Post by John Bowes
Post by Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Gordon
Post by Crash
"Indeed the pay freeze fiasco could well be the frosty
harbinger
of
a
broader winter of discontent to come, discontent that the
Government
can?t simply talk away. Until recently, effective
communication
has
been one of this Government?s core skills if not signature
achievements. However we?re now seeing a decline in that
skill
set
and
the Government could well be facing a winter of too many
pigs
with
not
enough lipstick."
Post by Crash
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/yesterdaze-to-freeze-or-not-to-freeze
From the link above
Simon Bridges has written a book, which poses an obvious
question
-
what did he do for the rest of the afternoon?
Anyhow I do think that the Governments defence is starting to
wear
thin
in
places. You can fool everyone for some of the time, but not
all
of
the
time.
With the vacination programme completed we will have crossed
the
river
and
now can switch horses. Having done a great job on the
Covid-19
case
it
is
necessary to keep moving as people will soon forget COVID-19,
after
all
to
date only 26 people have died. Now if it was 2,600 and
increasing
people
would remember it for longer. Of course the Government would
be
tossed
out
pronto.
We are likely to need another vaccination next year. We are
also
seeing that we do not want to have another community lock-down
-
either full or partial. Travel overseas is likely to be
restricted
for
some time - the experience of being unable to return from some
countries without a lot of difficulty is becoming better
known.
Post by Gordon
What Labour has to do is to start thinking through it
policies,
or
at
least
show/convience the public that they are good for NZ as a
whole.
Without
this
we will have the realisation dawning on the voters that while
this
Government was good on Covid-19 they are not so on just about
everything
else.
Try looking at the list of other achievements then - they have
consistently shown that they are better for emplyment, better
for
business, better for health, better for international
dilomacy,
better
for housing, better economic managers, and better for
families,
law
and order
Cites? And not just rhtoric but actual cites with analysis and
comparisons
with
any other government this century.
Waiting.
How disappointing, no evidence to support what Rich posted.
Perhaps this government is consistently better at promises and
terrible
at
delivery (which year was that again?).
No surprises at Rich failing to provide evidence of yet more of his
lies
:)
Neither you or Tony has been able to show any evidence against any
one
of them.
You are the one that should be providing evidence of success by this
government.
The evidence of this government's success lies in its having so far
not
only
survived its own failings - for which it is being continually exposed and
castigated, and (in part) rightly so - but having done so while largely
maintaining its overall poise and character as an agreeable "party of the
people".
National portrays itself as anything but agreeable. And as for "poise and
character" - WTF? - hobbled as it is with an unattractive, vote-losing
leader
who spends more and more of her time slogging away as hard as she can
towards
her own ouster, her Herculean efforts at self-immolation only to be
frustrated
by the dismal absence of a willing and credible challenger. A walking,
talking
débâcle in her own right, she is now even beginning to affect a
Shipley-esque
persona. And you know exactly where that got usurper Shipley, don't you?
So simply think of the National Party as an overbrimming, all-in-one
poisoned
chalice, and you get the essence of it. Fact is, any possible challenger
already has.
I don't care about National, that is nothing to do with my comments.
This
is
about the government.
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
It is not for me to prove otherwise, however that is actually easy.
Indeed so. What could be easier than for one not to prove anything?
Indeed, and Rich has done that handsomely.
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Where is your evidence, where are the cites?
Post by Rich80105
Post by John Bowes
Post by Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Gordon
Post by Crash
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/latest-political-poll-judith-collins-plummets-in-preferred-pm-stakes/FTSYMC3FHJGGNSHVR2HS6HL5AE/
No mention from you of the reduction in popularity of the PM, people are
finally beginning to wake up and realise that she is just flim-flam.
Maybe but unlike the luckless Collins's, Ardern's numbers are a mere
variation
from a consistently high average. And you can take it that with both
Collins
and National belly up in their own slough of despair and despond,
Arden's
as
good as yer gonna get for the time being, barring some unforeseen hiccup.
Once more, this this not about Collins or National.
But Elliot's article is about Collins and National - plus Labour - and it is
Elliot's article that Crash has put up for debate.
Read the article and you'll realise the essence of what you would call " the
topic" is in Crash's header, the last three words being the nub of the whole
thing: "...when humour bites". This leaves the whole topic wide open for
further commentary on the understated **substance** behind the entire piece
which in more or less equal measure makes fun of the shortcomings of all three
protagonists: the sitting government, Bridges and Collins. Elliot reserves a
special place in his heart for the stumbling, fumbling Bridges, metaphorically
putting the poor bastard out of his misery once and for all with his deft
coup-de-grâce, "National Oydentity"[2] - the unkindest cut of all. But this is
not to say that Elliot has not subtly addressed the feast of underlying
problems, albeit obliquely and also plainly for his own, and your, sweet
savouring. He's writing for fun because he's good at it.
So here, again, a little leavening of the discourse from time to time makes
for a more balanced perspective, particularly when those who must repeatedly
argue every nit-picking detail over issues **they know full well** they
themselves are powerless to act on, inevitably make holy fools of themselves.
Insistently pressing on others one's own earnestness of purpose while
simultaneously lacking even the faintest clue how **actually** to pursue it
one's self is strictly for the compulsive twits of this world.
Prior to the 2017 election, I said in plain words that the aspirant Labour
Party hadn't a hope of meeting the avalanche of policies and projects it had
announced. I then called it "irrational exuberance" - "pie in the sky".
And so it has turned out. Where it matters, and from all sides and for a
multitude of reasons, virtually the entire show has been hobbled from the very
outset, this made only worse and ever-increasingly difficult both by a
seriously ailing infrastructure this country cannot **now** afford to replace
let alone fully remediate[3], and more recent Act of God events et al - "The
best laid plans of mice and men...".
So I for one am not disappointed by Labour at all. What I see is, to the
greater degree, more or less what I had expected all along simply because I'm a
The higher one's expectations, the greater one's risk of disappointment. And
that goes s much for National as it does for any other party. Simply, our
political class is mediocre and certainly not up to the task of efficient,
effective governance. What's more, it seldom has been for at least the past 30
years, this due in large part to a complacent and compliant voting populace and
a parochial parish-pump Fourth Estate that for the most part should hang its
head in shame.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_former_Footlights_members
[2] Correction: "Nish-know Oydentity".
[3] Institutional drift and neglect, raised and fostered by institutional
self-satisfaction and complacency.
No the article is primarily about the government and their badly managed "pay
freeze" announcement.
Yes it also mentiuons National but not as the main issue.
Looking back through the list of posters below the reference to you
above, Tony; you should remonstrate with the principle offender
against keeping to the topic, one "undefined" . . . .
Who is this undefined you keep spouting about?
Copied from above:
______________________
On Mon, 17 May 2021 22:42:38 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 17 May 2021 21:24:34 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
______________________

"undefined" is one of the posters to the thread, Tony. You may have
your usenet reader configured to hide some information.
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
But don't get yourself all het up over nothing look for the humour in
the discussion . . .
I am not in the least het up. I am used to two people here in particular who
hijack threads. You and James are the major offenders.
I just respond to what is posted, Tony. Crash started the thread, not
you - so your usual claim that as initital poster you are entitled to
take control of what eople say does not apply - but your complaints
and unjustified assertions about other posters are certainly
off-topic.
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
It is **all** about a near-moribund Collins and National who have lost the
plot, allowing Labour to go about things virtually unencumbered by a
too-close-for-comfort parliamentary majority or Collins and National shooting
blanks from their now exhausted political armoury.
Nonsense it is about nothing of the sort. Read Crash's first post.
Post by James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Enjoy, then, even if only because Ardern provides this nation with a gutsy
young woman for New Zealand's hordes of loser-misogynists to bitch about.
I have never bitched about her, she simply does not fool me.
Never deny something for which you have not been personally fingered. And you
do do a lot of it, don't you? Makes you look twitchy, watchful, paranoid, even
- the latter acknowledged as the handmaiden of narcissism.
Irrelevant and abusive. The only paranoid narcisist here is you.
Post by James Christophers
Unlike those that adore her.
Many adored Mussolini; millions more adored Trump and still do. The same went
for John Key - and still does - mostly from the thicker end of New Zealand's
right-wing spectrum.
But no one needs to adore Ardern. She just "is", and by being "is" -
**and
in
the driving seat**, yet without in any way showing the faintest sign of
gloating or schadenfreude over Collins's self-inflicted travails - she gains
further strength more or less by default.
But they do and for the wrong reasons.
You judge those no less able than yourself to make such judgements
Post by Tony
I am sure she is a fine woman and mother
but she has yet to show any ability as a leader of a country - she is all
flim-flam.
Post by James Christophers
Like it or not, politics is a game. And in this instance, Collins and National
keep handing the initiative to Ardern on a plate. They just can't help
themselves. Even they know it.
Still off topic.
Post by James Christophers
As does the voting population at large.
Thus yer stumbling, fumbling National Party: John Key's ignoble legacy of
boundless complacency and neglect, and all of it passed off with a smirk.
No, not *my* National party. They have never been *mine*.
In terms of behaviours and their consequences, they are as much your millstone
as anyone else's.
Post by Tony
The only thing more sure than that is that they have never been yours.
They have been and will always be every New Zealanders.
Tony
2021-05-18 06:53:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 17 May 2021 22:42:38 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Removed for brevity.
"undefined" is one of the posters to the thread, Tony. You may have
your usenet reader configured to hide some information.



I just respond to what is posted, Tony. Crash started the thread, not
you - so your usual claim that as initital poster you are entitled to
take control of what eople say does not apply - but your complaints
and unjustified assertions about other posters are certainly
off-topic. >>>>>> >> >>are
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
finally beginning to wake up and realise that she is just flim-flam.
Maybe but unlike the luckless Collins's, Ardern's numbers are a mere
variation
from a consistently high average. And you can take it that with both
Collins
and National belly up in their own slough of despair and despond,
Arden's
as
good as yer gonna get for the time being, barring some unforeseen hiccup.
Once more, this this not about Collins or National.
But Elliot's article is about Collins and National - plus Labour - and it is
Elliot's article that Crash has put up for debate.
Read the article and you'll realise the essence of what you would call " the
topic" is in Crash's header, the last three words being the nub of the whole
thing: "...when humour bites". This leaves the whole topic wide open for
further commentary on the understated **substance** behind the entire piece
which in more or less equal measure makes fun of the shortcomings of all three
protagonists: the sitting government, Bridges and Collins. Elliot reserves a
special place in his heart for the stumbling, fumbling Bridges, metaphorically
putting the poor bastard out of his misery once and for all with his deft
coup-de-grâce, "National Oydentity"[2] - the unkindest cut of all. But
this
is
not to say that Elliot has not subtly addressed the feast of underlying
problems, albeit obliquely and also plainly for his own, and your, sweet
savouring. He's writing for fun because he's good at it.
So here, again, a little leavening of the discourse from time to time makes
for a more balanced perspective, particularly when those who must repeatedly
argue every nit-picking detail over issues **they know full well** they
themselves are powerless to act on, inevitably make holy fools of themselves.
Insistently pressing on others one's own earnestness of purpose while
simultaneously lacking even the faintest clue how **actually** to pursue it
one's self is strictly for the compulsive twits of this world.
Prior to the 2017 election, I said in plain words that the aspirant Labour
Party hadn't a hope of meeting the avalanche of policies and projects it had
announced. I then called it "irrational exuberance" - "pie in the sky".
And so it has turned out. Where it matters, and from all sides and for a
multitude of reasons, virtually the entire show has been hobbled from the very
outset, this made only worse and ever-increasingly difficult both by a
seriously ailing infrastructure this country cannot **now** afford to replace
let alone fully remediate[3], and more recent Act of God events et al - "The
best laid plans of mice and men...".
So I for one am not disappointed by Labour at all. What I see is, to the
greater degree, more or less what I had expected all along simply because I'm a
The higher one's expectations, the greater one's risk of disappointment. And
that goes s much for National as it does for any other party. Simply, our
political class is mediocre and certainly not up to the task of efficient,
effective governance. What's more, it seldom has been for at least the
past
30
years, this due in large part to a complacent and compliant voting
populace
and
a parochial parish-pump Fourth Estate that for the most part should hang its
head in shame.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_former_Footlights_members
[2] Correction: "Nish-know Oydentity".
[3] Institutional drift and neglect, raised and fostered by institutional
self-satisfaction and complacency.
No the article is primarily about the government and their badly managed "pay
freeze" announcement.
Yes it also mentiuons National but not as the main issue.
Looking back through the list of posters below the reference to you
above, Tony; you should remonstrate with the principle offender
against keeping to the topic, one "undefined" . . . .
Who is this undefined you keep spouting about?
"undefined" is one of the posters to the thread, Tony. You may have
your usenet reader configured to hide some information.
Not in my browser, maybe it is one of your invisible friends.
Post by Rich80105
______________________
On Mon, 17 May 2021 22:42:38 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 17 May 2021 21:24:34 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
______________________
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
But don't get yourself all het up over nothing look for the humour in
the discussion . . .
I am not in the least het up. I am used to two people here in particular who
hijack threads. You and James are the major offenders.
I just respond to what is posted, Tony. Crash started the thread, not
you - so your usual claim that as initital poster you are entitled to
take control of what eople say does not apply - but your complaints
and unjustified assertions about other posters are certainly
off-topic.
I was not the initial poster and did not imply that I was.
Why do you have to lie?
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
It is **all** about a near-moribund Collins and National who have lost the
plot, allowing Labour to go about things virtually unencumbered by a
too-close-for-comfort parliamentary majority or Collins and National shooting
blanks from their now exhausted political armoury.
Nonsense it is about nothing of the sort. Read Crash's first post.
Post by James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Enjoy, then, even if only because Ardern provides this nation with a
gutsy
young woman for New Zealand's hordes of loser-misogynists to bitch about.
I have never bitched about her, she simply does not fool me.
Never deny something for which you have not been personally fingered.
And
you
do do a lot of it, don't you? Makes you look twitchy, watchful,
paranoid,
even
- the latter acknowledged as the handmaiden of narcissism.
Irrelevant and abusive. The only paranoid narcisist here is you.
Post by James Christophers
Unlike those that adore her.
Many adored Mussolini; millions more adored Trump and still do. The
same
went
for John Key - and still does - mostly from the thicker end of New Zealand's
right-wing spectrum.
But no one needs to adore Ardern. She just "is", and by being "is" -
**and
in
the driving seat**, yet without in any way showing the faintest sign of
gloating or schadenfreude over Collins's self-inflicted travails - she gains
further strength more or less by default.
But they do and for the wrong reasons.
You judge those no less able than yourself to make such judgements
Post by Tony
I am sure she is a fine woman and mother
but she has yet to show any ability as a leader of a country - she is all
flim-flam.
Post by James Christophers
Like it or not, politics is a game. And in this instance, Collins and National
keep handing the initiative to Ardern on a plate. They just can't help
themselves. Even they know it.
Still off topic.
Post by James Christophers
As does the voting population at large.
Thus yer stumbling, fumbling National Party: John Key's ignoble legacy of
boundless complacency and neglect, and all of it passed off with a smirk.
No, not *my* National party. They have never been *mine*.
In terms of behaviours and their consequences, they are as much your millstone
as anyone else's.
Post by Tony
The only thing more sure than that is that they have never been yours.
They have been and will always be every New Zealanders.
James Christophers
2021-05-18 07:37:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 17 May 2021 22:42:38 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Removed for brevity.
"undefined" is one of the posters to the thread, Tony. You may have
your usenet reader configured to hide some information.
I just respond to what is posted, Tony. Crash started the thread, not
you - so your usual claim that as initital poster you are entitled to
take control of what eople say does not apply - but your complaints
and unjustified assertions about other posters are certainly
off-topic. >>>>>> >> >>are
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
finally beginning to wake up and realise that she is just
flim-flam.
Maybe but unlike the luckless Collins's, Ardern's numbers are a mere
variation
from a consistently high average. And you can take it that with both
Collins
and National belly up in their own slough of despair and despond,
Arden's
as
good as yer gonna get for the time being, barring some unforeseen
hiccup.
Once more, this this not about Collins or National.
But Elliot's article is about Collins and National - plus Labour - and it is
Elliot's article that Crash has put up for debate.
Read the article and you'll realise the essence of what you would call " the
topic" is in Crash's header, the last three words being the nub of the whole
thing: "...when humour bites". This leaves the whole topic wide open for
further commentary on the understated **substance** behind the entire piece
which in more or less equal measure makes fun of the shortcomings of all three
protagonists: the sitting government, Bridges and Collins. Elliot reserves a
special place in his heart for the stumbling, fumbling Bridges, metaphorically
putting the poor bastard out of his misery once and for all with his deft
coup-de-grâce, "National Oydentity"[2] - the unkindest cut of all. But
this
is
not to say that Elliot has not subtly addressed the feast of underlying
problems, albeit obliquely and also plainly for his own, and your, sweet
savouring. He's writing for fun because he's good at it.
So here, again, a little leavening of the discourse from time to time makes
for a more balanced perspective, particularly when those who must repeatedly
argue every nit-picking detail over issues **they know full well** they
themselves are powerless to act on, inevitably make holy fools of themselves.
Insistently pressing on others one's own earnestness of purpose while
simultaneously lacking even the faintest clue how **actually** to pursue it
one's self is strictly for the compulsive twits of this world.
Prior to the 2017 election, I said in plain words that the aspirant Labour
Party hadn't a hope of meeting the avalanche of policies and projects it had
announced. I then called it "irrational exuberance" - "pie in the sky".
And so it has turned out. Where it matters, and from all sides and for a
multitude of reasons, virtually the entire show has been hobbled from the very
outset, this made only worse and ever-increasingly difficult both by a
seriously ailing infrastructure this country cannot **now** afford to replace
let alone fully remediate[3], and more recent Act of God events et al - "The
best laid plans of mice and men...".
So I for one am not disappointed by Labour at all. What I see is, to the
greater degree, more or less what I had expected all along simply because I'm a
The higher one's expectations, the greater one's risk of disappointment. And
that goes s much for National as it does for any other party. Simply, our
political class is mediocre and certainly not up to the task of efficient,
effective governance. What's more, it seldom has been for at least the
past
30
years, this due in large part to a complacent and compliant voting
populace
and
a parochial parish-pump Fourth Estate that for the most part should hang its
head in shame.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_former_Footlights_members
[2] Correction: "Nish-know Oydentity".
[3] Institutional drift and neglect, raised and fostered by institutional
self-satisfaction and complacency.
No the article is primarily about the government and their badly managed "pay
freeze" announcement.
Yes it also mentiuons National but not as the main issue.
Looking back through the list of posters below the reference to you
above, Tony; you should remonstrate with the principle offender
against keeping to the topic, one "undefined" . . . .
Who is this undefined you keep spouting about?
"undefined" is one of the posters to the thread, Tony. You may have
your usenet reader configured to hide some information.
Not in my browser, maybe it is one of your invisible friends.
Post by Rich80105
______________________
On Mon, 17 May 2021 22:42:38 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 17 May 2021 21:24:34 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
______________________
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
But don't get yourself all het up over nothing look for the humour in
the discussion . . .
I am not in the least het up. I am used to two people here in particular who
hijack threads. You and James are the major offenders.
I just respond to what is posted, Tony. Crash started the thread, not
you - so your usual claim that as initital poster you are entitled to
take control of what eople say does not apply - but your complaints
and unjustified assertions about other posters are certainly
off-topic.
I was not the initial poster and did not imply that I was.
Why do you have to lie?
Where is the lie in "(I cite) ÿour **usual** claim that as initital poster you are entitled to
take control of what people say does **not** apply..."? (my emphases).
Tony
2021-05-18 20:32:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 17 May 2021 22:42:38 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Removed for brevity.
"undefined" is one of the posters to the thread, Tony. You may have
your usenet reader configured to hide some information.
I just respond to what is posted, Tony. Crash started the thread, not
you - so your usual claim that as initital poster you are entitled to
take control of what eople say does not apply - but your complaints
and unjustified assertions about other posters are certainly
off-topic. >>>>>> >> >>are
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
finally beginning to wake up and realise that she is just
flim-flam.
Maybe but unlike the luckless Collins's, Ardern's numbers are a
mere
variation
from a consistently high average. And you can take it that with
both
Collins
and National belly up in their own slough of despair and despond,
Arden's
as
good as yer gonna get for the time being, barring some unforeseen
hiccup.
Once more, this this not about Collins or National.
But Elliot's article is about Collins and National - plus Labour - and
it
is
Elliot's article that Crash has put up for debate.
Read the article and you'll realise the essence of what you would call
"
the
topic" is in Crash's header, the last three words being the nub of the whole
thing: "...when humour bites". This leaves the whole topic wide open for
further commentary on the understated **substance** behind the entire piece
which in more or less equal measure makes fun of the shortcomings of
all
three
protagonists: the sitting government, Bridges and Collins. Elliot
reserves
a
special place in his heart for the stumbling, fumbling Bridges, metaphorically
putting the poor bastard out of his misery once and for all with his deft
coup-de-grâce, "National Oydentity"[2] - the unkindest cut of all. But
this
is
not to say that Elliot has not subtly addressed the feast of underlying
problems, albeit obliquely and also plainly for his own, and your, sweet
savouring. He's writing for fun because he's good at it.
So here, again, a little leavening of the discourse from time to time makes
for a more balanced perspective, particularly when those who must repeatedly
argue every nit-picking detail over issues **they know full well** they
themselves are powerless to act on, inevitably make holy fools of themselves.
Insistently pressing on others one's own earnestness of purpose while
simultaneously lacking even the faintest clue how **actually** to
pursue
it
one's self is strictly for the compulsive twits of this world.
Prior to the 2017 election, I said in plain words that the aspirant Labour
Party hadn't a hope of meeting the avalanche of policies and projects
it
had
announced. I then called it "irrational exuberance" - "pie in the sky".
And so it has turned out. Where it matters, and from all sides and for a
multitude of reasons, virtually the entire show has been hobbled from
the
very
outset, this made only worse and ever-increasingly difficult both by a
seriously ailing infrastructure this country cannot **now** afford to replace
let alone fully remediate[3], and more recent Act of God events et al - "The
best laid plans of mice and men...".
So I for one am not disappointed by Labour at all. What I see is, to the
greater degree, more or less what I had expected all along simply
because
I'm a
The higher one's expectations, the greater one's risk of
disappointment.
And
that goes s much for National as it does for any other party. Simply, our
political class is mediocre and certainly not up to the task of efficient,
effective governance. What's more, it seldom has been for at least the
past
30
years, this due in large part to a complacent and compliant voting
populace
and
a parochial parish-pump Fourth Estate that for the most part should
hang
its
head in shame.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_former_Footlights_members
[2] Correction: "Nish-know Oydentity".
[3] Institutional drift and neglect, raised and fostered by institutional
self-satisfaction and complacency.
No the article is primarily about the government and their badly managed "pay
freeze" announcement.
Yes it also mentiuons National but not as the main issue.
Looking back through the list of posters below the reference to you
above, Tony; you should remonstrate with the principle offender
against keeping to the topic, one "undefined" . . . .
Who is this undefined you keep spouting about?
"undefined" is one of the posters to the thread, Tony. You may have
your usenet reader configured to hide some information.
Not in my browser, maybe it is one of your invisible friends.
Post by Rich80105
______________________
On Mon, 17 May 2021 22:42:38 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 17 May 2021 21:24:34 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
______________________
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
But don't get yourself all het up over nothing look for the humour in
the discussion . . .
I am not in the least het up. I am used to two people here in particular who
hijack threads. You and James are the major offenders.
I just respond to what is posted, Tony. Crash started the thread, not
you - so your usual claim that as initital poster you are entitled to
take control of what eople say does not apply - but your complaints
and unjustified assertions about other posters are certainly
off-topic.
I was not the initial poster and did not imply that I was.
Why do you have to lie?
Where is the lie in "(I cite) ÿour **usual** claim that as initital poster
you are entitled to
take control of what people say does **not** apply..."? (my emphases).
Tui anyone?
Rich80105
2021-05-19 04:14:38 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 18 May 2021 15:32:54 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 17 May 2021 22:42:38 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Removed for brevity.
"undefined" is one of the posters to the thread, Tony. You may have
your usenet reader configured to hide some information.
I just respond to what is posted, Tony. Crash started the thread, not
you - so your usual claim that as initital poster you are entitled to
take control of what eople say does not apply - but your complaints
and unjustified assertions about other posters are certainly
off-topic. >>>>>> >> >>are
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
finally beginning to wake up and realise that she is just
flim-flam.
Maybe but unlike the luckless Collins's, Ardern's numbers are a
mere
variation
from a consistently high average. And you can take it that with
both
Collins
and National belly up in their own slough of despair and despond,
Arden's
as
good as yer gonna get for the time being, barring some unforeseen
hiccup.
Once more, this this not about Collins or National.
But Elliot's article is about Collins and National - plus Labour - and
it
is
Elliot's article that Crash has put up for debate.
Read the article and you'll realise the essence of what you would call
"
the
topic" is in Crash's header, the last three words being the nub of the whole
thing: "...when humour bites". This leaves the whole topic wide open for
further commentary on the understated **substance** behind the entire piece
which in more or less equal measure makes fun of the shortcomings of
all
three
protagonists: the sitting government, Bridges and Collins. Elliot
reserves
a
special place in his heart for the stumbling, fumbling Bridges,
metaphorically
putting the poor bastard out of his misery once and for all with his deft
coup-de-grâce, "National Oydentity"[2] - the unkindest cut of all. But
this
is
not to say that Elliot has not subtly addressed the feast of underlying
problems, albeit obliquely and also plainly for his own, and your, sweet
savouring. He's writing for fun because he's good at it.
So here, again, a little leavening of the discourse from time to time makes
for a more balanced perspective, particularly when those who must repeatedly
argue every nit-picking detail over issues **they know full well** they
themselves are powerless to act on, inevitably make holy fools of themselves.
Insistently pressing on others one's own earnestness of purpose while
simultaneously lacking even the faintest clue how **actually** to
pursue
it
one's self is strictly for the compulsive twits of this world.
Prior to the 2017 election, I said in plain words that the aspirant Labour
Party hadn't a hope of meeting the avalanche of policies and projects
it
had
announced. I then called it "irrational exuberance" - "pie in the sky".
And so it has turned out. Where it matters, and from all sides and for a
multitude of reasons, virtually the entire show has been hobbled from
the
very
outset, this made only worse and ever-increasingly difficult both by a
seriously ailing infrastructure this country cannot **now** afford to replace
let alone fully remediate[3], and more recent Act of God events et al - "The
best laid plans of mice and men...".
So I for one am not disappointed by Labour at all. What I see is, to the
greater degree, more or less what I had expected all along simply
because
I'm a
The higher one's expectations, the greater one's risk of
disappointment.
And
that goes s much for National as it does for any other party. Simply, our
political class is mediocre and certainly not up to the task of efficient,
effective governance. What's more, it seldom has been for at least the
past
30
years, this due in large part to a complacent and compliant voting
populace
and
a parochial parish-pump Fourth Estate that for the most part should
hang
its
head in shame.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_former_Footlights_members
[2] Correction: "Nish-know Oydentity".
[3] Institutional drift and neglect, raised and fostered by institutional
self-satisfaction and complacency.
No the article is primarily about the government and their badly managed "pay
freeze" announcement.
Yes it also mentiuons National but not as the main issue.
Looking back through the list of posters below the reference to you
above, Tony; you should remonstrate with the principle offender
against keeping to the topic, one "undefined" . . . .
Who is this undefined you keep spouting about?
"undefined" is one of the posters to the thread, Tony. You may have
your usenet reader configured to hide some information.
Not in my browser, maybe it is one of your invisible friends.
Post by Rich80105
______________________
On Mon, 17 May 2021 22:42:38 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 17 May 2021 21:24:34 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
______________________
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
But don't get yourself all het up over nothing look for the humour in
the discussion . . .
I am not in the least het up. I am used to two people here in particular who
hijack threads. You and James are the major offenders.
I just respond to what is posted, Tony. Crash started the thread, not
you - so your usual claim that as initial poster you are entitled to
take control of what people say does not apply - but your complaints
and unjustified assertions about other posters are certainly
off-topic.
I was not the initial poster and did not imply that I was.
Why do you have to lie?
I specifically said that Crash started the thread - what part of that
did you not understand, Tony?
Post by Tony
Where is the lie in "(I cite) ÿour **usual** claim that as initital poster
you are entitled to
take control of what people say does **not** apply..."? (my emphases).
Tui anyone?
James Christophers was being helpful in pointing out that he could not
see a lie; but that is no reason for you to turn to drink, Tony. Do
you still think you saw a lie in what I had said? If so, perhaps you
could explain . . .
Tony
2021-05-19 04:53:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Tue, 18 May 2021 15:32:54 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 17 May 2021 22:42:38 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Removed for brevity.
"undefined" is one of the posters to the thread, Tony. You may have
your usenet reader configured to hide some information.
I just respond to what is posted, Tony. Crash started the thread, not
you - so your usual claim that as initital poster you are entitled to
take control of what eople say does not apply - but your complaints
and unjustified assertions about other posters are certainly
off-topic. >>>>>> >> >>are
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
finally beginning to wake up and realise that she is just
flim-flam.
Maybe but unlike the luckless Collins's, Ardern's numbers are a
mere
variation
from a consistently high average. And you can take it that with
both
Collins
and National belly up in their own slough of despair and
despond,
Arden's
as
good as yer gonna get for the time being, barring some
unforeseen
hiccup.
Once more, this this not about Collins or National.
But Elliot's article is about Collins and National - plus Labour - and
it
is
Elliot's article that Crash has put up for debate.
Read the article and you'll realise the essence of what you would call
"
the
topic" is in Crash's header, the last three words being the nub of
the
whole
thing: "...when humour bites". This leaves the whole topic wide open for
further commentary on the understated **substance** behind the entire piece
which in more or less equal measure makes fun of the shortcomings of
all
three
protagonists: the sitting government, Bridges and Collins. Elliot
reserves
a
special place in his heart for the stumbling, fumbling Bridges,
metaphorically
putting the poor bastard out of his misery once and for all with his deft
coup-de-grâce, "National Oydentity"[2] - the unkindest cut of all. But
this
is
not to say that Elliot has not subtly addressed the feast of underlying
problems, albeit obliquely and also plainly for his own, and your, sweet
savouring. He's writing for fun because he's good at it.
So here, again, a little leavening of the discourse from time to time makes
for a more balanced perspective, particularly when those who must
repeatedly
argue every nit-picking detail over issues **they know full well** they
themselves are powerless to act on, inevitably make holy fools of
themselves.
Insistently pressing on others one's own earnestness of purpose while
simultaneously lacking even the faintest clue how **actually** to
pursue
it
one's self is strictly for the compulsive twits of this world.
Prior to the 2017 election, I said in plain words that the aspirant Labour
Party hadn't a hope of meeting the avalanche of policies and projects
it
had
announced. I then called it "irrational exuberance" - "pie in the sky".
And so it has turned out. Where it matters, and from all sides and
for
a
multitude of reasons, virtually the entire show has been hobbled from
the
very
outset, this made only worse and ever-increasingly difficult both by a
seriously ailing infrastructure this country cannot **now** afford to
replace
let alone fully remediate[3], and more recent Act of God events et al
-
"The
best laid plans of mice and men...".
So I for one am not disappointed by Labour at all. What I see is, to the
greater degree, more or less what I had expected all along simply
because
I'm a
The higher one's expectations, the greater one's risk of
disappointment.
And
that goes s much for National as it does for any other party. Simply, our
political class is mediocre and certainly not up to the task of efficient,
effective governance. What's more, it seldom has been for at least the
past
30
years, this due in large part to a complacent and compliant voting
populace
and
a parochial parish-pump Fourth Estate that for the most part should
hang
its
head in shame.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_former_Footlights_members
[2] Correction: "Nish-know Oydentity".
[3] Institutional drift and neglect, raised and fostered by institutional
self-satisfaction and complacency.
No the article is primarily about the government and their badly
managed
"pay
freeze" announcement.
Yes it also mentiuons National but not as the main issue.
Looking back through the list of posters below the reference to you
above, Tony; you should remonstrate with the principle offender
against keeping to the topic, one "undefined" . . . .
Who is this undefined you keep spouting about?
"undefined" is one of the posters to the thread, Tony. You may have
your usenet reader configured to hide some information.
Not in my browser, maybe it is one of your invisible friends.
Post by Rich80105
______________________
On Mon, 17 May 2021 22:42:38 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 17 May 2021 21:24:34 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
______________________
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
But don't get yourself all het up over nothing look for the humour in
the discussion . . .
I am not in the least het up. I am used to two people here in particular who
hijack threads. You and James are the major offenders.
I just respond to what is posted, Tony. Crash started the thread, not
you - so your usual claim that as initial poster you are entitled to
take control of what people say does not apply - but your complaints
and unjustified assertions about other posters are certainly
off-topic.
I was not the initial poster and did not imply that I was.
Why do you have to lie?
I specifically said that Crash started the thread - what part of that
did you not understand, Tony?
Post by Tony
Where is the lie in "(I cite) ÿour **usual** claim that as initital poster
you are entitled to
take control of what people say does **not** apply..."? (my emphases).
Tui anyone?
James Christophers was being helpful in pointing out that he could not
see a lie; but that is no reason for you to turn to drink, Tony. Do
you still think you saw a lie in what I had said? If so, perhaps you
could explain . . .
You posted in response to me "so your usual claim that as initital poster you
are entitled to
take control of what eople say"
I did not make any such claim.
I assume that "eople" should have been "people" but I maybe you had a different
purpose.
I did not claim to be the initial poster.
So why do you have to lie?
Simple really.
John Bowes
2021-05-19 06:28:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Tue, 18 May 2021 15:32:54 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 17 May 2021 22:42:38 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Removed for brevity.
"undefined" is one of the posters to the thread, Tony. You may have
your usenet reader configured to hide some information.
I just respond to what is posted, Tony. Crash started the thread, not
you - so your usual claim that as initital poster you are entitled to
take control of what eople say does not apply - but your complaints
and unjustified assertions about other posters are certainly
off-topic. >>>>>> >> >>are
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
finally beginning to wake up and realise that she is just
flim-flam.
Maybe but unlike the luckless Collins's, Ardern's numbers are a
mere
variation
from a consistently high average. And you can take it that with
both
Collins
and National belly up in their own slough of despair and
despond,
Arden's
as
good as yer gonna get for the time being, barring some
unforeseen
hiccup.
Once more, this this not about Collins or National.
But Elliot's article is about Collins and National - plus Labour - and
it
is
Elliot's article that Crash has put up for debate.
Read the article and you'll realise the essence of what you would call
"
the
topic" is in Crash's header, the last three words being the nub of
the
whole
thing: "...when humour bites". This leaves the whole topic wide open
for
further commentary on the understated **substance** behind the entire
piece
which in more or less equal measure makes fun of the shortcomings of
all
three
protagonists: the sitting government, Bridges and Collins. Elliot
reserves
a
special place in his heart for the stumbling, fumbling Bridges,
metaphorically
putting the poor bastard out of his misery once and for all with his
deft
coup-de-grâce, "National Oydentity"[2] - the unkindest cut of all. But
this
is
not to say that Elliot has not subtly addressed the feast of underlying
problems, albeit obliquely and also plainly for his own, and your,
sweet
savouring. He's writing for fun because he's good at it.
So here, again, a little leavening of the discourse from time to time
makes
for a more balanced perspective, particularly when those who must
repeatedly
argue every nit-picking detail over issues **they know full well** they
themselves are powerless to act on, inevitably make holy fools of
themselves.
Insistently pressing on others one's own earnestness of purpose while
simultaneously lacking even the faintest clue how **actually** to
pursue
it
one's self is strictly for the compulsive twits of this world.
Prior to the 2017 election, I said in plain words that the aspirant
Labour
Party hadn't a hope of meeting the avalanche of policies and projects
it
had
announced. I then called it "irrational exuberance" - "pie in the sky".
And so it has turned out. Where it matters, and from all sides and
for
a
multitude of reasons, virtually the entire show has been hobbled from
the
very
outset, this made only worse and ever-increasingly difficult both by a
seriously ailing infrastructure this country cannot **now** afford to
replace
let alone fully remediate[3], and more recent Act of God events et al
-
"The
best laid plans of mice and men...".
So I for one am not disappointed by Labour at all. What I see is, to
the
greater degree, more or less what I had expected all along simply
because
I'm a
The higher one's expectations, the greater one's risk of
disappointment.
And
that goes s much for National as it does for any other party. Simply,
our
political class is mediocre and certainly not up to the task of
efficient,
effective governance. What's more, it seldom has been for at least the
past
30
years, this due in large part to a complacent and compliant voting
populace
and
a parochial parish-pump Fourth Estate that for the most part should
hang
its
head in shame.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_former_Footlights_members
[2] Correction: "Nish-know Oydentity".
[3] Institutional drift and neglect, raised and fostered by
institutional
self-satisfaction and complacency.
No the article is primarily about the government and their badly
managed
"pay
freeze" announcement.
Yes it also mentiuons National but not as the main issue.
Looking back through the list of posters below the reference to you
above, Tony; you should remonstrate with the principle offender
against keeping to the topic, one "undefined" . . . .
Who is this undefined you keep spouting about?
"undefined" is one of the posters to the thread, Tony. You may have
your usenet reader configured to hide some information.
Not in my browser, maybe it is one of your invisible friends.
Post by Rich80105
______________________
On Mon, 17 May 2021 22:42:38 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 17 May 2021 21:24:34 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
______________________
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
But don't get yourself all het up over nothing look for the humour in
the discussion . . .
I am not in the least het up. I am used to two people here in particular who
hijack threads. You and James are the major offenders.
I just respond to what is posted, Tony. Crash started the thread, not
you - so your usual claim that as initial poster you are entitled to
take control of what people say does not apply - but your complaints
and unjustified assertions about other posters are certainly
off-topic.
I was not the initial poster and did not imply that I was.
Why do you have to lie?
I specifically said that Crash started the thread - what part of that
did you not understand, Tony?
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Where is the lie in "(I cite) ÿour **usual** claim that as initital poster
you are entitled to
take control of what people say does **not** apply..."? (my emphases).
Tui anyone?
James Christophers was being helpful in pointing out that he could not
see a lie; but that is no reason for you to turn to drink, Tony. Do
you still think you saw a lie in what I had said? If so, perhaps you
could explain . . .
You posted in response to me "so your usual claim that as initital poster you
are entitled to
take control of what eople say"
I did not make any such claim.
I assume that "eople" should have been "people" but I maybe you had a different
purpose.
I did not claim to be the initial poster.
So why do you have to lie?
Simple really.
Starve the troll Tony. It's a waste of time and energy as Rich is incapable of learning anything outside it's brainwashing*

*Using brain very loosely here.
George Black
2021-05-19 19:58:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Bowes
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Tue, 18 May 2021 15:32:54 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 17 May 2021 22:42:38 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Removed for brevity.
"undefined" is one of the posters to the thread, Tony. You may have
your usenet reader configured to hide some information.
I just respond to what is posted, Tony. Crash started the thread, not
you - so your usual claim that as initital poster you are entitled to
take control of what eople say does not apply - but your complaints
and unjustified assertions about other posters are certainly
off-topic. >>>>>> >> >>are
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
finally beginning to wake up and realise that she is just
flim-flam.
Maybe but unlike the luckless Collins's, Ardern's numbers are a
mere
variation
from a consistently high average. And you can take it that with
both
Collins
and National belly up in their own slough of despair and
despond,
Arden's
as
good as yer gonna get for the time being, barring some
unforeseen
hiccup.
Once more, this this not about Collins or National.
But Elliot's article is about Collins and National - plus Labour - and
it
is
Elliot's article that Crash has put up for debate.
Read the article and you'll realise the essence of what you would call
"
the
topic" is in Crash's header, the last three words being the nub of
the
whole
thing: "...when humour bites". This leaves the whole topic wide open
for
further commentary on the understated **substance** behind the entire
piece
which in more or less equal measure makes fun of the shortcomings of
all
three
protagonists: the sitting government, Bridges and Collins. Elliot
reserves
a
special place in his heart for the stumbling, fumbling Bridges,
metaphorically
putting the poor bastard out of his misery once and for all with his
deft
coup-de-grâce, "National Oydentity"[2] - the unkindest cut of all. But
this
is
not to say that Elliot has not subtly addressed the feast of underlying
problems, albeit obliquely and also plainly for his own, and your,
sweet
savouring. He's writing for fun because he's good at it.
So here, again, a little leavening of the discourse from time to time
makes
for a more balanced perspective, particularly when those who must
repeatedly
argue every nit-picking detail over issues **they know full well** they
themselves are powerless to act on, inevitably make holy fools of
themselves.
Insistently pressing on others one's own earnestness of purpose while
simultaneously lacking even the faintest clue how **actually** to
pursue
it
one's self is strictly for the compulsive twits of this world.
Prior to the 2017 election, I said in plain words that the aspirant
Labour
Party hadn't a hope of meeting the avalanche of policies and projects
it
had
announced. I then called it "irrational exuberance" - "pie in the sky".
And so it has turned out. Where it matters, and from all sides and
for
a
multitude of reasons, virtually the entire show has been hobbled from
the
very
outset, this made only worse and ever-increasingly difficult both by a
seriously ailing infrastructure this country cannot **now** afford to
replace
let alone fully remediate[3], and more recent Act of God events et al
-
"The
best laid plans of mice and men...".
So I for one am not disappointed by Labour at all. What I see is, to
the
greater degree, more or less what I had expected all along simply
because
I'm a
The higher one's expectations, the greater one's risk of
disappointment.
And
that goes s much for National as it does for any other party. Simply,
our
political class is mediocre and certainly not up to the task of
efficient,
effective governance. What's more, it seldom has been for at least the
past
30
years, this due in large part to a complacent and compliant voting
populace
and
a parochial parish-pump Fourth Estate that for the most part should
hang
its
head in shame.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_former_Footlights_members
[2] Correction: "Nish-know Oydentity".
[3] Institutional drift and neglect, raised and fostered by
institutional
self-satisfaction and complacency.
No the article is primarily about the government and their badly
managed
"pay
freeze" announcement.
Yes it also mentiuons National but not as the main issue.
Looking back through the list of posters below the reference to you
above, Tony; you should remonstrate with the principle offender
against keeping to the topic, one "undefined" . . . .
Who is this undefined you keep spouting about?
"undefined" is one of the posters to the thread, Tony. You may have
your usenet reader configured to hide some information.
Not in my browser, maybe it is one of your invisible friends.
Post by Rich80105
______________________
On Mon, 17 May 2021 22:42:38 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 17 May 2021 21:24:34 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
______________________
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
But don't get yourself all het up over nothing look for the humour in
the discussion . . .
I am not in the least het up. I am used to two people here in particular who
hijack threads. You and James are the major offenders.
I just respond to what is posted, Tony. Crash started the thread, not
you - so your usual claim that as initial poster you are entitled to
take control of what people say does not apply - but your complaints
and unjustified assertions about other posters are certainly
off-topic.
I was not the initial poster and did not imply that I was.
Why do you have to lie?
I specifically said that Crash started the thread - what part of that
did you not understand, Tony?
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Where is the lie in "(I cite) ÿour **usual** claim that as initital poster
you are entitled to
take control of what people say does **not** apply..."? (my emphases).
Tui anyone?
James Christophers was being helpful in pointing out that he could not
see a lie; but that is no reason for you to turn to drink, Tony. Do
you still think you saw a lie in what I had said? If so, perhaps you
could explain . . .
You posted in response to me "so your usual claim that as initital poster you
are entitled to
take control of what eople say"
I did not make any such claim.
I assume that "eople" should have been "people" but I maybe you had a different
purpose.
I did not claim to be the initial poster.
So why do you have to lie?
Simple really.
Starve the troll Tony. It's a waste of time and energy as Rich is incapable of learning anything outside it's brainwashing*
*Using brain very loosely here.
Again!
Killfile him.
Then you only see what people reply to.
Great amusement value of little to no worth
Rich80105
2021-05-19 06:37:48 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 18 May 2021 23:53:55 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Tue, 18 May 2021 15:32:54 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 17 May 2021 22:42:38 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Removed for brevity.
"undefined" is one of the posters to the thread, Tony. You may have
your usenet reader configured to hide some information.
I just respond to what is posted, Tony. Crash started the thread, not
you - so your usual claim that as initital poster you are entitled to
take control of what eople say does not apply - but your complaints
and unjustified assertions about other posters are certainly
off-topic. >>>>>> >> >>are
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
finally beginning to wake up and realise that she is just
flim-flam.
Maybe but unlike the luckless Collins's, Ardern's numbers are a
mere
variation
from a consistently high average. And you can take it that with
both
Collins
and National belly up in their own slough of despair and
despond,
Arden's
as
good as yer gonna get for the time being, barring some
unforeseen
hiccup.
Once more, this this not about Collins or National.
But Elliot's article is about Collins and National - plus Labour - and
it
is
Elliot's article that Crash has put up for debate.
Read the article and you'll realise the essence of what you would call
"
the
topic" is in Crash's header, the last three words being the nub of
the
whole
thing: "...when humour bites". This leaves the whole topic wide open for
further commentary on the understated **substance** behind the entire
piece
which in more or less equal measure makes fun of the shortcomings of
all
three
protagonists: the sitting government, Bridges and Collins. Elliot
reserves
a
special place in his heart for the stumbling, fumbling Bridges,
metaphorically
putting the poor bastard out of his misery once and for all with his deft
coup-de-grâce, "National Oydentity"[2] - the unkindest cut of all. But
this
is
not to say that Elliot has not subtly addressed the feast of underlying
problems, albeit obliquely and also plainly for his own, and your, sweet
savouring. He's writing for fun because he's good at it.
So here, again, a little leavening of the discourse from time to time
makes
for a more balanced perspective, particularly when those who must
repeatedly
argue every nit-picking detail over issues **they know full well** they
themselves are powerless to act on, inevitably make holy fools of
themselves.
Insistently pressing on others one's own earnestness of purpose while
simultaneously lacking even the faintest clue how **actually** to
pursue
it
one's self is strictly for the compulsive twits of this world.
Prior to the 2017 election, I said in plain words that the aspirant
Labour
Party hadn't a hope of meeting the avalanche of policies and projects
it
had
announced. I then called it "irrational exuberance" - "pie in the sky".
And so it has turned out. Where it matters, and from all sides and
for
a
multitude of reasons, virtually the entire show has been hobbled from
the
very
outset, this made only worse and ever-increasingly difficult both by a
seriously ailing infrastructure this country cannot **now** afford to
replace
let alone fully remediate[3], and more recent Act of God events et al
-
"The
best laid plans of mice and men...".
So I for one am not disappointed by Labour at all. What I see is, to the
greater degree, more or less what I had expected all along simply
because
I'm a
The higher one's expectations, the greater one's risk of
disappointment.
And
that goes s much for National as it does for any other party. Simply, our
political class is mediocre and certainly not up to the task of
efficient,
effective governance. What's more, it seldom has been for at least the
past
30
years, this due in large part to a complacent and compliant voting
populace
and
a parochial parish-pump Fourth Estate that for the most part should
hang
its
head in shame.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_former_Footlights_members
[2] Correction: "Nish-know Oydentity".
[3] Institutional drift and neglect, raised and fostered by institutional
self-satisfaction and complacency.
No the article is primarily about the government and their badly
managed
"pay
freeze" announcement.
Yes it also mentiuons National but not as the main issue.
Looking back through the list of posters below the reference to you
above, Tony; you should remonstrate with the principle offender
against keeping to the topic, one "undefined" . . . .
Who is this undefined you keep spouting about?
"undefined" is one of the posters to the thread, Tony. You may have
your usenet reader configured to hide some information.
Not in my browser, maybe it is one of your invisible friends.
Post by Rich80105
______________________
On Mon, 17 May 2021 22:42:38 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 17 May 2021 21:24:34 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
______________________
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
But don't get yourself all het up over nothing look for the humour in
the discussion . . .
I am not in the least het up. I am used to two people here in particular who
hijack threads. You and James are the major offenders.
I just respond to what is posted, Tony. Crash started the thread, not
you - so your usual claim that as initial poster you are entitled to
take control of what people say does not apply - but your complaints
and unjustified assertions about other posters are certainly
off-topic.
I was not the initial poster and did not imply that I was.
Why do you have to lie?
I specifically said that Crash started the thread - what part of that
did you not understand, Tony?
Post by Tony
Where is the lie in "(I cite) ÿour **usual** claim that as initital poster
you are entitled to
take control of what people say does **not** apply..."? (my emphases).
Tui anyone?
James Christophers was being helpful in pointing out that he could not
see a lie; but that is no reason for you to turn to drink, Tony. Do
you still think you saw a lie in what I had said? If so, perhaps you
could explain . . .
You posted in response to me "so your usual claim that as initital poster you
are entitled to
take control of what eople say"
I did not make any such claim.
No you did not make such a claim in this case Tony; I did not say that
you had. You have previously objected to what you describe as
responses being "off topic", and that you as the original poster were
entitled to define the topic as you saw fit. Your words have differed
from thread to thread, but precise wording is not needed; all I was
saying that any such belief by you does not apply in this case, as you
were not the original poster.

So no lie by me demonstrated.
Post by Tony
I assume that "eople" should have been "people" but I maybe you had a different
purpose.
I did not claim to be the initial poster.
So why do you have to lie?
Simple really.
Tony
2021-05-19 06:40:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Tue, 18 May 2021 23:53:55 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Tue, 18 May 2021 15:32:54 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 17 May 2021 22:42:38 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Removed for brevity.
"undefined" is one of the posters to the thread, Tony. You may have
your usenet reader configured to hide some information.
I just respond to what is posted, Tony. Crash started the thread, not
you - so your usual claim that as initital poster you are entitled to
take control of what eople say does not apply - but your complaints
and unjustified assertions about other posters are certainly
off-topic. >>>>>> >> >>are
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
finally beginning to wake up and realise that she is just
flim-flam.
Maybe but unlike the luckless Collins's, Ardern's numbers are
a
mere
variation
from a consistently high average. And you can take it that
with
both
Collins
and National belly up in their own slough of despair and
despond,
Arden's
as
good as yer gonna get for the time being, barring some
unforeseen
hiccup.
Once more, this this not about Collins or National.
But Elliot's article is about Collins and National - plus Labour - and
it
is
Elliot's article that Crash has put up for debate.
Read the article and you'll realise the essence of what you would call
"
the
topic" is in Crash's header, the last three words being the nub of
the
whole
thing: "...when humour bites". This leaves the whole topic wide
open
for
further commentary on the understated **substance** behind the entire
piece
which in more or less equal measure makes fun of the shortcomings of
all
three
protagonists: the sitting government, Bridges and Collins. Elliot
reserves
a
special place in his heart for the stumbling, fumbling Bridges,
metaphorically
putting the poor bastard out of his misery once and for all with
his
deft
coup-de-grâce, "National Oydentity"[2] - the unkindest cut of all.
But
this
is
not to say that Elliot has not subtly addressed the feast of underlying
problems, albeit obliquely and also plainly for his own, and your,
sweet
savouring. He's writing for fun because he's good at it.
So here, again, a little leavening of the discourse from time to time
makes
for a more balanced perspective, particularly when those who must
repeatedly
argue every nit-picking detail over issues **they know full well** they
themselves are powerless to act on, inevitably make holy fools of
themselves.
Insistently pressing on others one's own earnestness of purpose while
simultaneously lacking even the faintest clue how **actually** to
pursue
it
one's self is strictly for the compulsive twits of this world.
Prior to the 2017 election, I said in plain words that the aspirant
Labour
Party hadn't a hope of meeting the avalanche of policies and projects
it
had
announced. I then called it "irrational exuberance" - "pie in the sky".
And so it has turned out. Where it matters, and from all sides and
for
a
multitude of reasons, virtually the entire show has been hobbled from
the
very
outset, this made only worse and ever-increasingly difficult both
by
a
seriously ailing infrastructure this country cannot **now** afford to
replace
let alone fully remediate[3], and more recent Act of God events et al
-
"The
best laid plans of mice and men...".
So I for one am not disappointed by Labour at all. What I see is,
to
the
greater degree, more or less what I had expected all along simply
because
I'm a
The higher one's expectations, the greater one's risk of
disappointment.
And
that goes s much for National as it does for any other party.
Simply,
our
political class is mediocre and certainly not up to the task of
efficient,
effective governance. What's more, it seldom has been for at least the
past
30
years, this due in large part to a complacent and compliant voting
populace
and
a parochial parish-pump Fourth Estate that for the most part should
hang
its
head in shame.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_former_Footlights_members
[2] Correction: "Nish-know Oydentity".
[3] Institutional drift and neglect, raised and fostered by
institutional
self-satisfaction and complacency.
No the article is primarily about the government and their badly
managed
"pay
freeze" announcement.
Yes it also mentiuons National but not as the main issue.
Looking back through the list of posters below the reference to you
above, Tony; you should remonstrate with the principle offender
against keeping to the topic, one "undefined" . . . .
Who is this undefined you keep spouting about?
"undefined" is one of the posters to the thread, Tony. You may have
your usenet reader configured to hide some information.
Not in my browser, maybe it is one of your invisible friends.
Post by Rich80105
______________________
On Mon, 17 May 2021 22:42:38 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 17 May 2021 21:24:34 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
______________________
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
But don't get yourself all het up over nothing look for the humour in
the discussion . . .
I am not in the least het up. I am used to two people here in
particular
who
hijack threads. You and James are the major offenders.
I just respond to what is posted, Tony. Crash started the thread, not
you - so your usual claim that as initial poster you are entitled to
take control of what people say does not apply - but your complaints
and unjustified assertions about other posters are certainly
off-topic.
I was not the initial poster and did not imply that I was.
Why do you have to lie?
I specifically said that Crash started the thread - what part of that
did you not understand, Tony?
Post by Tony
Where is the lie in "(I cite) ÿour **usual** claim that as initital poster
you are entitled to
take control of what people say does **not** apply..."? (my emphases).
Tui anyone?
James Christophers was being helpful in pointing out that he could not
see a lie; but that is no reason for you to turn to drink, Tony. Do
you still think you saw a lie in what I had said? If so, perhaps you
could explain . . .
You posted in response to me "so your usual claim that as initital poster you
are entitled to
take control of what eople say"
I did not make any such claim.
No you did not make such a claim in this case Tony; I did not say that
you had. You have previously objected to what you describe as
responses being "off topic", and that you as the original poster were
entitled to define the topic as you saw fit. Your words have differed
from thread to thread, but precise wording is not needed; all I was
saying that any such belief by you does not apply in this case, as you
were not the original poster.
So no lie by me demonstrated.
OK so squirm away and lie once more. Just Rich at his worst and also his best
(they are one and the same0.
You lied, you squirmed and you lied once more.
QED
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
I assume that "eople" should have been "people" but I maybe you had a different
purpose.
I did not claim to be the initial poster.
So why do you have to lie?
Simple really.
James Christophers
2021-05-19 10:22:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Tue, 18 May 2021 23:53:55 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Tue, 18 May 2021 15:32:54 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 17 May 2021 22:42:38 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Removed for brevity.
"undefined" is one of the posters to the thread, Tony. You may have
your usenet reader configured to hide some information.
I just respond to what is posted, Tony. Crash started the thread, not
you - so your usual claim that as initital poster you are entitled to
take control of what eople say does not apply - but your complaints
and unjustified assertions about other posters are certainly
off-topic. >>>>>> >> >>are
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
finally beginning to wake up and realise that she is just
flim-flam.
Maybe but unlike the luckless Collins's, Ardern's numbers are
a
mere
variation
from a consistently high average. And you can take it that
with
both
Collins
and National belly up in their own slough of despair and
despond,
Arden's
as
good as yer gonna get for the time being, barring some
unforeseen
hiccup.
Once more, this this not about Collins or National.
But Elliot's article is about Collins and National - plus Labour -
and
it
is
Elliot's article that Crash has put up for debate.
Read the article and you'll realise the essence of what you would
call
"
the
topic" is in Crash's header, the last three words being the nub of
the
whole
thing: "...when humour bites". This leaves the whole topic wide
open
for
further commentary on the understated **substance** behind the
entire
piece
which in more or less equal measure makes fun of the shortcomings
of
all
three
protagonists: the sitting government, Bridges and Collins. Elliot
reserves
a
special place in his heart for the stumbling, fumbling Bridges,
metaphorically
putting the poor bastard out of his misery once and for all with
his
deft
coup-de-grâce, "National Oydentity"[2] - the unkindest cut of all.
But
this
is
not to say that Elliot has not subtly addressed the feast of
underlying
problems, albeit obliquely and also plainly for his own, and your,
sweet
savouring. He's writing for fun because he's good at it.
So here, again, a little leavening of the discourse from time to
time
makes
for a more balanced perspective, particularly when those who must
repeatedly
argue every nit-picking detail over issues **they know full well**
they
themselves are powerless to act on, inevitably make holy fools of
themselves.
Insistently pressing on others one's own earnestness of purpose
while
simultaneously lacking even the faintest clue how **actually** to
pursue
it
one's self is strictly for the compulsive twits of this world.
Prior to the 2017 election, I said in plain words that the aspirant
Labour
Party hadn't a hope of meeting the avalanche of policies and
projects
it
had
announced. I then called it "irrational exuberance" - "pie in the
sky".
And so it has turned out. Where it matters, and from all sides and
for
a
multitude of reasons, virtually the entire show has been hobbled
from
the
very
outset, this made only worse and ever-increasingly difficult both
by
a
seriously ailing infrastructure this country cannot **now** afford
to
replace
let alone fully remediate[3], and more recent Act of God events et
al
-
"The
best laid plans of mice and men...".
So I for one am not disappointed by Labour at all. What I see is,
to
the
greater degree, more or less what I had expected all along simply
because
I'm a
The higher one's expectations, the greater one's risk of
disappointment.
And
that goes s much for National as it does for any other party.
Simply,
our
political class is mediocre and certainly not up to the task of
efficient,
effective governance. What's more, it seldom has been for at least
the
past
30
years, this due in large part to a complacent and compliant voting
populace
and
a parochial parish-pump Fourth Estate that for the most part should
hang
its
head in shame.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_former_Footlights_members
[2] Correction: "Nish-know Oydentity".
[3] Institutional drift and neglect, raised and fostered by
institutional
self-satisfaction and complacency.
No the article is primarily about the government and their badly
managed
"pay
freeze" announcement.
Yes it also mentiuons National but not as the main issue.
Looking back through the list of posters below the reference to you
above, Tony; you should remonstrate with the principle offender
against keeping to the topic, one "undefined" . . . .
Who is this undefined you keep spouting about?
"undefined" is one of the posters to the thread, Tony. You may have
your usenet reader configured to hide some information.
Not in my browser, maybe it is one of your invisible friends.
Post by Rich80105
______________________
On Mon, 17 May 2021 22:42:38 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 17 May 2021 21:24:34 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
______________________
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
But don't get yourself all het up over nothing look for the humour in
the discussion . . .
I am not in the least het up. I am used to two people here in
particular
who
hijack threads. You and James are the major offenders.
I just respond to what is posted, Tony. Crash started the thread, not
you - so your usual claim that as initial poster you are entitled to
take control of what people say does not apply - but your complaints
and unjustified assertions about other posters are certainly
off-topic.
I was not the initial poster and did not imply that I was.
Why do you have to lie?
I specifically said that Crash started the thread - what part of that
did you not understand, Tony?
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Where is the lie in "(I cite) ÿour **usual** claim that as initital
poster
you are entitled to
take control of what people say does **not** apply..."? (my emphases).
Tui anyone?
James Christophers was being helpful in pointing out that he could not
see a lie; but that is no reason for you to turn to drink, Tony. Do
you still think you saw a lie in what I had said? If so, perhaps you
could explain . . .
You posted in response to me "so your usual claim that as initital poster you
are entitled to
take control of what eople say"
I did not make any such claim.
No you did not make such a claim in this case Tony; I did not say that
you had.
Quite right, but your wording contained a hint of ambiguity that Tony has siezed on in order to turn your statement against you.

So, to tidy things up a little, try this amended version:

"...your usual claim that, as the original poster of a new thread, you are entitled to take control of what people say does **not** in this instance apply..."

This is how I first interpreted your wording which is why I queried Tony's accusation against you. Yet again, both words and how accurately they are deployed count for a great deal in instances such as this.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
You have previously objected to what you describe as
responses being "off topic", and that you as the original poster were
entitled to define the topic as you saw fit. Your words have differed
from thread to thread, but precise wording is not needed; all I was
saying that any such belief by you does not apply in this case, as you
were not the original poster.
So no lie by me demonstrated.
Quite so, now that you ( 'Rich') and I have cleared up Tony's misinterpretation. Whether this misinterpretation is deliberate or otherwise doesn't particularly bother me because covert and overt obversion are both very much Tony's schtick.

(Snipped Tony's further response to you because it is now redundant.)
Tony
2021-05-19 20:15:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by James Christophers
Post by Rich80105
On Tue, 18 May 2021 23:53:55 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Tue, 18 May 2021 15:32:54 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 17 May 2021 22:42:38 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Removed for brevity.
"undefined" is one of the posters to the thread, Tony. You may have
your usenet reader configured to hide some information.
I just respond to what is posted, Tony. Crash started the thread, not
you - so your usual claim that as initital poster you are entitled to
take control of what eople say does not apply - but your complaints
and unjustified assertions about other posters are certainly
off-topic. >>>>>> >> >>are
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
finally beginning to wake up and realise that she is
just
flim-flam.
Maybe but unlike the luckless Collins's, Ardern's numbers
are
a
mere
variation
from a consistently high average. And you can take it that
with
both
Collins
and National belly up in their own slough of despair and
despond,
Arden's
as
good as yer gonna get for the time being, barring some
unforeseen
hiccup.
Once more, this this not about Collins or National.
But Elliot's article is about Collins and National - plus Labour
-
and
it
is
Elliot's article that Crash has put up for debate.
Read the article and you'll realise the essence of what you would
call
"
the
topic" is in Crash's header, the last three words being the nub
of
the
whole
thing: "...when humour bites". This leaves the whole topic wide
open
for
further commentary on the understated **substance** behind the
entire
piece
which in more or less equal measure makes fun of the shortcomings
of
all
three
protagonists: the sitting government, Bridges and Collins. Elliot
reserves
a
special place in his heart for the stumbling, fumbling Bridges,
metaphorically
putting the poor bastard out of his misery once and for all with
his
deft
coup-de-grâce, "National Oydentity"[2] - the unkindest cut of
all.
But
this
is
not to say that Elliot has not subtly addressed the feast of
underlying
problems, albeit obliquely and also plainly for his own, and
your,
sweet
savouring. He's writing for fun because he's good at it.
So here, again, a little leavening of the discourse from time to
time
makes
for a more balanced perspective, particularly when those who must
repeatedly
argue every nit-picking detail over issues **they know full
well**
they
themselves are powerless to act on, inevitably make holy fools of
themselves.
Insistently pressing on others one's own earnestness of purpose
while
simultaneously lacking even the faintest clue how **actually** to
pursue
it
one's self is strictly for the compulsive twits of this world.
Prior to the 2017 election, I said in plain words that the
aspirant
Labour
Party hadn't a hope of meeting the avalanche of policies and
projects
it
had
announced. I then called it "irrational exuberance" - "pie in the
sky".
And so it has turned out. Where it matters, and from all sides
and
for
a
multitude of reasons, virtually the entire show has been hobbled
from
the
very
outset, this made only worse and ever-increasingly difficult both
by
a
seriously ailing infrastructure this country cannot **now**
afford
to
replace
let alone fully remediate[3], and more recent Act of God events
et
al
-
"The
best laid plans of mice and men...".
So I for one am not disappointed by Labour at all. What I see is,
to
the
greater degree, more or less what I had expected all along simply
because
I'm a
The higher one's expectations, the greater one's risk of
disappointment.
And
that goes s much for National as it does for any other party.
Simply,
our
political class is mediocre and certainly not up to the task of
efficient,
effective governance. What's more, it seldom has been for at
least
the
past
30
years, this due in large part to a complacent and compliant
voting
populace
and
a parochial parish-pump Fourth Estate that for the most part
should
hang
its
head in shame.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_former_Footlights_members
[2] Correction: "Nish-know Oydentity".
[3] Institutional drift and neglect, raised and fostered by
institutional
self-satisfaction and complacency.
No the article is primarily about the government and their badly
managed
"pay
freeze" announcement.
Yes it also mentiuons National but not as the main issue.
Looking back through the list of posters below the reference to you
above, Tony; you should remonstrate with the principle offender
against keeping to the topic, one "undefined" . . . .
Who is this undefined you keep spouting about?
"undefined" is one of the posters to the thread, Tony. You may have
your usenet reader configured to hide some information.
Not in my browser, maybe it is one of your invisible friends.
Post by Rich80105
______________________
On Mon, 17 May 2021 22:42:38 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 17 May 2021 21:24:34 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
______________________
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
But don't get yourself all het up over nothing look for the humour in
the discussion . . .
I am not in the least het up. I am used to two people here in
particular
who
hijack threads. You and James are the major offenders.
I just respond to what is posted, Tony. Crash started the thread, not
you - so your usual claim that as initial poster you are entitled to
take control of what people say does not apply - but your complaints
and unjustified assertions about other posters are certainly
off-topic.
I was not the initial poster and did not imply that I was.
Why do you have to lie?
I specifically said that Crash started the thread - what part of that
did you not understand, Tony?
Post by Tony
Where is the lie in "(I cite) ÿour **usual** claim that as initital poster
you are entitled to
take control of what people say does **not** apply..."? (my emphases).
Tui anyone?
James Christophers was being helpful in pointing out that he could not
see a lie; but that is no reason for you to turn to drink, Tony. Do
you still think you saw a lie in what I had said? If so, perhaps you
could explain . . .
You posted in response to me "so your usual claim that as initital poster you
are entitled to
take control of what eople say"
I did not make any such claim.
No you did not make such a claim in this case Tony; I did not say that
you had.
Quite right, but your wording contained a hint of ambiguity that Tony has
siezed on in order to turn your statement against you.
"...your usual claim that, as the original poster of a new thread, you are
entitled to take control of what people say does **not** in this instance
apply..."
This is how I first interpreted your wording which is why I queried Tony's
accusation against you. Yet again, both words and how accurately they are
deployed count for a great deal in instances such as this.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
You have previously objected to what you describe as
responses being "off topic", and that you as the original poster were
entitled to define the topic as you saw fit. Your words have differed
from thread to thread, but precise wording is not needed; all I was
saying that any such belief by you does not apply in this case, as you
were not the original poster.
So no lie by me demonstrated.
Quite so, now that you ( 'Rich') and I have cleared up Tony's
misinterpretation. Whether this misinterpretation is deliberate or otherwise
doesn't particularly bother me because covert and overt obversion are both very
much Tony's schtick.
(Snipped Tony's further response to you because it is now redundant.)
What absolute garbage. It was a deliberate lie. Period.
Rich80105
2021-05-19 20:19:22 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 19 May 2021 15:15:37 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Rich80105
On Tue, 18 May 2021 23:53:55 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Tue, 18 May 2021 15:32:54 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 17 May 2021 22:42:38 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Removed for brevity.
"undefined" is one of the posters to the thread, Tony. You may have
your usenet reader configured to hide some information.
I just respond to what is posted, Tony. Crash started the thread, not
you - so your usual claim that as initital poster you are entitled to
take control of what eople say does not apply - but your complaints
and unjustified assertions about other posters are certainly
off-topic. >>>>>> >> >>are
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
finally beginning to wake up and realise that she is
just
flim-flam.
Maybe but unlike the luckless Collins's, Ardern's numbers
are
a
mere
variation
from a consistently high average. And you can take it that
with
both
Collins
and National belly up in their own slough of despair and
despond,
Arden's
as
good as yer gonna get for the time being, barring some
unforeseen
hiccup.
Once more, this this not about Collins or National.
But Elliot's article is about Collins and National - plus Labour
-
and
it
is
Elliot's article that Crash has put up for debate.
Read the article and you'll realise the essence of what you
would
call
"
the
topic" is in Crash's header, the last three words being the nub
of
the
whole
thing: "...when humour bites". This leaves the whole topic wide
open
for
further commentary on the understated **substance** behind the
entire
piece
which in more or less equal measure makes fun of the
shortcomings
of
all
three
protagonists: the sitting government, Bridges and Collins.
Elliot
reserves
a
special place in his heart for the stumbling, fumbling Bridges,
metaphorically
putting the poor bastard out of his misery once and for all with
his
deft
coup-de-grâce, "National Oydentity"[2] - the unkindest cut of
all.
But
this
is
not to say that Elliot has not subtly addressed the feast of
underlying
problems, albeit obliquely and also plainly for his own, and
your,
sweet
savouring. He's writing for fun because he's good at it.
So here, again, a little leavening of the discourse from time to
time
makes
for a more balanced perspective, particularly when those who
must
repeatedly
argue every nit-picking detail over issues **they know full
well**
they
themselves are powerless to act on, inevitably make holy fools
of
themselves.
Insistently pressing on others one's own earnestness of purpose
while
simultaneously lacking even the faintest clue how **actually**
to
pursue
it
one's self is strictly for the compulsive twits of this world.
Prior to the 2017 election, I said in plain words that the
aspirant
Labour
Party hadn't a hope of meeting the avalanche of policies and
projects
it
had
announced. I then called it "irrational exuberance" - "pie in
the
sky".
And so it has turned out. Where it matters, and from all sides
and
for
a
multitude of reasons, virtually the entire show has been hobbled
from
the
very
outset, this made only worse and ever-increasingly difficult
both
by
a
seriously ailing infrastructure this country cannot **now**
afford
to
replace
let alone fully remediate[3], and more recent Act of God events
et
al
-
"The
best laid plans of mice and men...".
So I for one am not disappointed by Labour at all. What I see
is,
to
the
greater degree, more or less what I had expected all along
simply
because
I'm a
The higher one's expectations, the greater one's risk of
disappointment.
And
that goes s much for National as it does for any other party.
Simply,
our
political class is mediocre and certainly not up to the task of
efficient,
effective governance. What's more, it seldom has been for at
least
the
past
30
years, this due in large part to a complacent and compliant
voting
populace
and
a parochial parish-pump Fourth Estate that for the most part
should
hang
its
head in shame.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_former_Footlights_members
[2] Correction: "Nish-know Oydentity".
[3] Institutional drift and neglect, raised and fostered by
institutional
self-satisfaction and complacency.
No the article is primarily about the government and their badly
managed
"pay
freeze" announcement.
Yes it also mentiuons National but not as the main issue.
Looking back through the list of posters below the reference to you
above, Tony; you should remonstrate with the principle offender
against keeping to the topic, one "undefined" . . . .
Who is this undefined you keep spouting about?
"undefined" is one of the posters to the thread, Tony. You may have
your usenet reader configured to hide some information.
Not in my browser, maybe it is one of your invisible friends.
Post by Rich80105
______________________
On Mon, 17 May 2021 22:42:38 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 17 May 2021 21:24:34 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot
net
______________________
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
But don't get yourself all het up over nothing look for the humour
in
the discussion . . .
I am not in the least het up. I am used to two people here in
particular
who
hijack threads. You and James are the major offenders.
I just respond to what is posted, Tony. Crash started the thread, not
you - so your usual claim that as initial poster you are entitled to
take control of what people say does not apply - but your complaints
and unjustified assertions about other posters are certainly
off-topic.
I was not the initial poster and did not imply that I was.
Why do you have to lie?
I specifically said that Crash started the thread - what part of that
did you not understand, Tony?
Post by Tony
Where is the lie in "(I cite) ÿour **usual** claim that as initital poster
you are entitled to
take control of what people say does **not** apply..."? (my emphases).
Tui anyone?
James Christophers was being helpful in pointing out that he could not
see a lie; but that is no reason for you to turn to drink, Tony. Do
you still think you saw a lie in what I had said? If so, perhaps you
could explain . . .
You posted in response to me "so your usual claim that as initital poster you
are entitled to
take control of what eople say"
I did not make any such claim.
No you did not make such a claim in this case Tony; I did not say that
you had.
Quite right, but your wording contained a hint of ambiguity that Tony has
siezed on in order to turn your statement against you.
"...your usual claim that, as the original poster of a new thread, you are
entitled to take control of what people say does **not** in this instance
apply..."
This is how I first interpreted your wording which is why I queried Tony's
accusation against you. Yet again, both words and how accurately they are
deployed count for a great deal in instances such as this.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
You have previously objected to what you describe as
responses being "off topic", and that you as the original poster were
entitled to define the topic as you saw fit. Your words have differed
from thread to thread, but precise wording is not needed; all I was
saying that any such belief by you does not apply in this case, as you
were not the original poster.
So no lie by me demonstrated.
Quite so, now that you ( 'Rich') and I have cleared up Tony's
misinterpretation. Whether this misinterpretation is deliberate or otherwise
doesn't particularly bother me because covert and overt obversion are both very
much Tony's schtick.
(Snipped Tony's further response to you because it is now redundant.)
What absolute garbage. It was a deliberate lie. Period.
No lie by me, but your clarification that your 'misunderstanding'was a
deliberate lie by you Tony is perhaps a good place to end this thread.
Tony
2021-05-20 00:32:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 19 May 2021 15:15:37 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Rich80105
On Tue, 18 May 2021 23:53:55 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Tue, 18 May 2021 15:32:54 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 17 May 2021 22:42:38 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Removed for brevity.
"undefined" is one of the posters to the thread, Tony. You may have
your usenet reader configured to hide some information.
I just respond to what is posted, Tony. Crash started the thread, not
you - so your usual claim that as initital poster you are entitled to
take control of what eople say does not apply - but your complaints
and unjustified assertions about other posters are certainly
off-topic. >>>>>> >> >>are
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
finally beginning to wake up and realise that she is
just
flim-flam.
Maybe but unlike the luckless Collins's, Ardern's
numbers
are
a
mere
variation
from a consistently high average. And you can take it
that
with
both
Collins
and National belly up in their own slough of despair and
despond,
Arden's
as
good as yer gonna get for the time being, barring some
unforeseen
hiccup.
Once more, this this not about Collins or National.
But Elliot's article is about Collins and National - plus
Labour
-
and
it
is
Elliot's article that Crash has put up for debate.
Read the article and you'll realise the essence of what you
would
call
"
the
topic" is in Crash's header, the last three words being the
nub
of
the
whole
thing: "...when humour bites". This leaves the whole topic
wide
open
for
further commentary on the understated **substance** behind the
entire
piece
which in more or less equal measure makes fun of the
shortcomings
of
all
three
protagonists: the sitting government, Bridges and Collins.
Elliot
reserves
a
special place in his heart for the stumbling, fumbling
Bridges,
metaphorically
putting the poor bastard out of his misery once and for all
with
his
deft
coup-de-grâce, "National Oydentity"[2] - the unkindest cut of
all.
But
this
is
not to say that Elliot has not subtly addressed the feast of
underlying
problems, albeit obliquely and also plainly for his own, and
your,
sweet
savouring. He's writing for fun because he's good at it.
So here, again, a little leavening of the discourse from time
to
time
makes
for a more balanced perspective, particularly when those who
must
repeatedly
argue every nit-picking detail over issues **they know full
well**
they
themselves are powerless to act on, inevitably make holy fools
of
themselves.
Insistently pressing on others one's own earnestness of
purpose
while
simultaneously lacking even the faintest clue how **actually**
to
pursue
it
one's self is strictly for the compulsive twits of this world.
Prior to the 2017 election, I said in plain words that the
aspirant
Labour
Party hadn't a hope of meeting the avalanche of policies and
projects
it
had
announced. I then called it "irrational exuberance" - "pie in
the
sky".
And so it has turned out. Where it matters, and from all sides
and
for
a
multitude of reasons, virtually the entire show has been
hobbled
from
the
very
outset, this made only worse and ever-increasingly difficult
both
by
a
seriously ailing infrastructure this country cannot **now**
afford
to
replace
let alone fully remediate[3], and more recent Act of God
events
et
al
-
"The
best laid plans of mice and men...".
So I for one am not disappointed by Labour at all. What I see
is,
to
the
greater degree, more or less what I had expected all along
simply
because
I'm a
The higher one's expectations, the greater one's risk of
disappointment.
And
that goes s much for National as it does for any other party.
Simply,
our
political class is mediocre and certainly not up to the task
of
efficient,
effective governance. What's more, it seldom has been for at
least
the
past
30
years, this due in large part to a complacent and compliant
voting
populace
and
a parochial parish-pump Fourth Estate that for the most part
should
hang
its
head in shame.
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_former_Footlights_members
[2] Correction: "Nish-know Oydentity".
[3] Institutional drift and neglect, raised and fostered by
institutional
self-satisfaction and complacency.
No the article is primarily about the government and their
badly
managed
"pay
freeze" announcement.
Yes it also mentiuons National but not as the main issue.
Looking back through the list of posters below the reference to
you
above, Tony; you should remonstrate with the principle offender
against keeping to the topic, one "undefined" . . . .
Who is this undefined you keep spouting about?
"undefined" is one of the posters to the thread, Tony. You may have
your usenet reader configured to hide some information.
Not in my browser, maybe it is one of your invisible friends.
Post by Rich80105
______________________
On Mon, 17 May 2021 22:42:38 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 17 May 2021 21:24:34 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot
net
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
On Monday, 17 May 2021 at 09:08:45 UTC+12, undefined
______________________
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
But don't get yourself all het up over nothing look for the
humour
in
the discussion . . .
I am not in the least het up. I am used to two people here in
particular
who
hijack threads. You and James are the major offenders.
I just respond to what is posted, Tony. Crash started the thread, not
you - so your usual claim that as initial poster you are entitled to
take control of what people say does not apply - but your complaints
and unjustified assertions about other posters are certainly
off-topic.
I was not the initial poster and did not imply that I was.
Why do you have to lie?
I specifically said that Crash started the thread - what part of that
did you not understand, Tony?
Post by Tony
Where is the lie in "(I cite) ÿour **usual** claim that as initital
poster
you are entitled to
take control of what people say does **not** apply..."? (my emphases).
Tui anyone?
James Christophers was being helpful in pointing out that he could not
see a lie; but that is no reason for you to turn to drink, Tony. Do
you still think you saw a lie in what I had said? If so, perhaps you
could explain . . .
You posted in response to me "so your usual claim that as initital
poster
you
are entitled to
take control of what eople say"
I did not make any such claim.
No you did not make such a claim in this case Tony; I did not say that
you had.
Quite right, but your wording contained a hint of ambiguity that Tony has
siezed on in order to turn your statement against you.
"...your usual claim that, as the original poster of a new thread, you are
entitled to take control of what people say does **not** in this instance
apply..."
This is how I first interpreted your wording which is why I queried Tony's
accusation against you. Yet again, both words and how accurately they are
deployed count for a great deal in instances such as this.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
You have previously objected to what you describe as
responses being "off topic", and that you as the original poster were
entitled to define the topic as you saw fit. Your words have differed
from thread to thread, but precise wording is not needed; all I was
saying that any such belief by you does not apply in this case, as you
were not the original poster.
So no lie by me demonstrated.
Quite so, now that you ( 'Rich') and I have cleared up Tony's
misinterpretation. Whether this misinterpretation is deliberate or otherwise
doesn't particularly bother me because covert and overt obversion are both very
much Tony's schtick.
(Snipped Tony's further response to you because it is now redundant.)
What absolute garbage. It was a deliberate lie. Period.
No lie by me, but your clarification that your 'misunderstanding'was a
deliberate lie by you Tony is perhaps a good place to end this thread.
Yes you did lie and your sarcasm is now second nature for you. You are
incapable of honest debate, and you always have been.

John Bowes
2021-05-18 05:12:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 17 May 2021 21:24:34 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 15 May 2021 21:54:11 -0700 (PDT), John Bowes
Post by John Bowes
Post by Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Gordon
Post by Crash
"Indeed the pay freeze fiasco could well be the frosty
harbinger
of
a
broader winter of discontent to come, discontent that the
Government
can?t simply talk away. Until recently, effective
communication
has
been one of this Government?s core skills if not signature
achievements. However we?re now seeing a decline in that
skill
set
and
the Government could well be facing a winter of too many pigs
with
not
enough lipstick."
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/yesterdaze-to-freeze-or-not-to-freeze
From the link above
Simon Bridges has written a book, which poses an obvious
question
-
what did he do for the rest of the afternoon?
Anyhow I do think that the Governments defence is starting to
wear
thin
in
places. You can fool everyone for some of the time, but not all
of
the
time.
With the vacination programme completed we will have crossed
the
river
and
now can switch horses. Having done a great job on the Covid-19
case
it
is
necessary to keep moving as people will soon forget COVID-19,
after
all
to
date only 26 people have died. Now if it was 2,600 and
increasing
people
would remember it for longer. Of course the Government would be
tossed
out
pronto.
We are likely to need another vaccination next year. We are also
seeing that we do not want to have another community lock-down -
either full or partial. Travel overseas is likely to be
restricted
for
some time - the experience of being unable to return from some
countries without a lot of difficulty is becoming better known.
Post by Gordon
What Labour has to do is to start thinking through it policies,
or
at
least
show/convience the public that they are good for NZ as a whole.
Without
this
we will have the realisation dawning on the voters that while
this
Government was good on Covid-19 they are not so on just about
everything
else.
Try looking at the list of other achievements then - they have
consistently shown that they are better for emplyment, better
for
business, better for health, better for international dilomacy,
better
for housing, better economic managers, and better for families,
law
and order
Cites? And not just rhtoric but actual cites with analysis and
comparisons
with
any other government this century.
Waiting.
How disappointing, no evidence to support what Rich posted.
Perhaps this government is consistently better at promises and
terrible
at
delivery (which year was that again?).
No surprises at Rich failing to provide evidence of yet more of his
lies
:)
Neither you or Tony has been able to show any evidence against any
one
of them.
You are the one that should be providing evidence of success by this
government.
The evidence of this government's success lies in its having so far not
only
survived its own failings - for which it is being continually exposed and
castigated, and (in part) rightly so - but having done so while largely
maintaining its overall poise and character as an agreeable "party of the
people".
National portrays itself as anything but agreeable. And as for "poise and
character" - WTF? - hobbled as it is with an unattractive, vote-losing
leader
who spends more and more of her time slogging away as hard as she can
towards
her own ouster, her Herculean efforts at self-immolation only to be
frustrated
by the dismal absence of a willing and credible challenger. A walking,
talking
débâcle in her own right, she is now even beginning to affect a
Shipley-esque
persona. And you know exactly where that got usurper Shipley, don't you?
So simply think of the National Party as an overbrimming, all-in-one
poisoned
chalice, and you get the essence of it. Fact is, any possible challenger
already has.
I don't care about National, that is nothing to do with my comments. This is
about the government.
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
It is not for me to prove otherwise, however that is actually easy.
Indeed so. What could be easier than for one not to prove anything?
Indeed, and Rich has done that handsomely.
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Where is your evidence, where are the cites?
Post by Rich80105
Post by John Bowes
Post by Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Gordon
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/latest-political-poll-judith-collins-plummets-in-preferred-pm-stakes/FTSYMC3FHJGGNSHVR2HS6HL5AE/
No mention from you of the reduction in popularity of the PM, people are
finally beginning to wake up and realise that she is just flim-flam.
Maybe but unlike the luckless Collins's, Ardern's numbers are a mere
variation
from a consistently high average. And you can take it that with both
Collins
and National belly up in their own slough of despair and despond,
Arden's
as
good as yer gonna get for the time being, barring some unforeseen hiccup.
Once more, this this not about Collins or National.
But Elliot's article is about Collins and National - plus Labour - and it is
Elliot's article that Crash has put up for debate.
Read the article and you'll realise the essence of what you would call " the
topic" is in Crash's header, the last three words being the nub of the whole
thing: "...when humour bites". This leaves the whole topic wide open for
further commentary on the understated **substance** behind the entire piece
which in more or less equal measure makes fun of the shortcomings of all three
protagonists: the sitting government, Bridges and Collins. Elliot reserves a
special place in his heart for the stumbling, fumbling Bridges, metaphorically
putting the poor bastard out of his misery once and for all with his deft
coup-de-grâce, "National Oydentity"[2] - the unkindest cut of all. But this is
not to say that Elliot has not subtly addressed the feast of underlying
problems, albeit obliquely and also plainly for his own, and your, sweet
savouring. He's writing for fun because he's good at it.
So here, again, a little leavening of the discourse from time to time makes
for a more balanced perspective, particularly when those who must repeatedly
argue every nit-picking detail over issues **they know full well** they
themselves are powerless to act on, inevitably make holy fools of themselves.
Insistently pressing on others one's own earnestness of purpose while
simultaneously lacking even the faintest clue how **actually** to pursue it
one's self is strictly for the compulsive twits of this world.
Prior to the 2017 election, I said in plain words that the aspirant Labour
Party hadn't a hope of meeting the avalanche of policies and projects it had
announced. I then called it "irrational exuberance" - "pie in the sky".
And so it has turned out. Where it matters, and from all sides and for a
multitude of reasons, virtually the entire show has been hobbled from the very
outset, this made only worse and ever-increasingly difficult both by a
seriously ailing infrastructure this country cannot **now** afford to replace
let alone fully remediate[3], and more recent Act of God events et al - "The
best laid plans of mice and men...".
So I for one am not disappointed by Labour at all. What I see is, to the
greater degree, more or less what I had expected all along simply because I'm a
The higher one's expectations, the greater one's risk of disappointment. And
that goes s much for National as it does for any other party. Simply, our
political class is mediocre and certainly not up to the task of efficient,
effective governance. What's more, it seldom has been for at least the past 30
years, this due in large part to a complacent and compliant voting populace and
a parochial parish-pump Fourth Estate that for the most part should hang its
head in shame.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_former_Footlights_members
[2] Correction: "Nish-know Oydentity".
[3] Institutional drift and neglect, raised and fostered by institutional
self-satisfaction and complacency.
No the article is primarily about the government and their badly managed "pay
freeze" announcement.
Yes it also mentiuons National but not as the main issue.
Looking back through the list of posters below the reference to you
above, Tony; you should remonstrate with the principle offender
against keeping to the topic, one "undefined" . . . .
But don't get yourself all het up over nothing look for the humour in
the discussion . . .
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
It is **all** about a near-moribund Collins and National who have lost the
plot, allowing Labour to go about things virtually unencumbered by a
too-close-for-comfort parliamentary majority or Collins and National shooting
blanks from their now exhausted political armoury.
Nonsense it is about nothing of the sort. Read Crash's first post.
Post by James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Enjoy, then, even if only because Ardern provides this nation with a gutsy
young woman for New Zealand's hordes of loser-misogynists to bitch about.
I have never bitched about her, she simply does not fool me.
Never deny something for which you have not been personally fingered. And you
do do a lot of it, don't you? Makes you look twitchy, watchful, paranoid, even
- the latter acknowledged as the handmaiden of narcissism.
Irrelevant and abusive. The only paranoid narcisist here is you.
Post by James Christophers
Unlike those that adore her.
Many adored Mussolini; millions more adored Trump and still do. The same went
for John Key - and still does - mostly from the thicker end of New Zealand's
right-wing spectrum.
But no one needs to adore Ardern. She just "is", and by being "is" - **and in
the driving seat**, yet without in any way showing the faintest sign of
gloating or schadenfreude over Collins's self-inflicted travails - she gains
further strength more or less by default.
But they do and for the wrong reasons.
You judge those no less able than yourself to make such judgements
Post by Tony
I am sure she is a fine woman and mother
but she has yet to show any ability as a leader of a country - she is all
flim-flam.
Post by James Christophers
Like it or not, politics is a game. And in this instance, Collins and National
keep handing the initiative to Ardern on a plate. They just can't help
themselves. Even they know it.
Still off topic.
Post by James Christophers
As does the voting population at large.
Thus yer stumbling, fumbling National Party: John Key's ignoble legacy of
boundless complacency and neglect, and all of it passed off with a smirk.
No, not *my* National party. They have never been *mine*.
In terms of behaviours and their consequences, they are as much your millstone
as anyone else's.
Post by Tony
The only thing more sure than that is that they have never been yours.
They have been and will always be every New Zealanders.
Your obvious lie doesn't make you look like anything but a trashy troll posting yet more smelly shit Rich. No changes from you, hardly unexpected considering you NEVER follow your own advice!
James Christophers
2021-05-18 22:42:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 15 May 2021 21:54:11 -0700 (PDT), John Bowes
Post by John Bowes
Post by Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Gordon
Post by Crash
"Indeed the pay freeze fiasco could well be the frosty
harbinger
of
a
broader winter of discontent to come, discontent that the
Government
can?t simply talk away. Until recently, effective
communication
has
been one of this Government?s core skills if not signature
achievements. However we?re now seeing a decline in that
skill
set
and
the Government could well be facing a winter of too many pigs
with
not
enough lipstick."
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/yesterdaze-to-freeze-or-not-to-freeze
From the link above
Simon Bridges has written a book, which poses an obvious
question
-
what did he do for the rest of the afternoon?
Anyhow I do think that the Governments defence is starting to
wear
thin
in
places. You can fool everyone for some of the time, but not all
of
the
time.
With the vacination programme completed we will have crossed
the
river
and
now can switch horses. Having done a great job on the Covid-19
case
it
is
necessary to keep moving as people will soon forget COVID-19,
after
all
to
date only 26 people have died. Now if it was 2,600 and
increasing
people
would remember it for longer. Of course the Government would be
tossed
out
pronto.
We are likely to need another vaccination next year. We are also
seeing that we do not want to have another community lock-down -
either full or partial. Travel overseas is likely to be
restricted
for
some time - the experience of being unable to return from some
countries without a lot of difficulty is becoming better known.
Post by Gordon
What Labour has to do is to start thinking through it policies,
or
at
least
show/convience the public that they are good for NZ as a whole.
Without
this
we will have the realisation dawning on the voters that while
this
Government was good on Covid-19 they are not so on just about
everything
else.
Try looking at the list of other achievements then - they have
consistently shown that they are better for emplyment, better
for
business, better for health, better for international dilomacy,
better
for housing, better economic managers, and better for families,
law
and order
Cites? And not just rhtoric but actual cites with analysis and
comparisons
with
any other government this century.
Waiting.
How disappointing, no evidence to support what Rich posted.
Perhaps this government is consistently better at promises and
terrible
at
delivery (which year was that again?).
No surprises at Rich failing to provide evidence of yet more of his
lies
:)
Neither you or Tony has been able to show any evidence against any one
of them.
You are the one that should be providing evidence of success by this
government.
The evidence of this government's success lies in its having so far not only
survived its own failings - for which it is being continually exposed and
castigated, and (in part) rightly so - but having done so while largely
maintaining its overall poise and character as an agreeable "party of the
people".
National portrays itself as anything but agreeable. And as for "poise and
character" - WTF? - hobbled as it is with an unattractive, vote-losing leader
who spends more and more of her time slogging away as hard as she can towards
her own ouster, her Herculean efforts at self-immolation only to be
frustrated
by the dismal absence of a willing and credible challenger. A walking,
talking
débâcle in her own right, she is now even beginning to affect a
Shipley-esque
persona. And you know exactly where that got usurper Shipley, don't you?
So simply think of the National Party as an overbrimming, all-in-one poisoned
chalice, and you get the essence of it. Fact is, any possible challenger
already has.
I don't care about National, that is nothing to do with my comments. This is
about the government.
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
It is not for me to prove otherwise, however that is actually easy.
Indeed so. What could be easier than for one not to prove anything?
Indeed, and Rich has done that handsomely.
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Where is your evidence, where are the cites?
Post by Rich80105
Post by John Bowes
Post by Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Gordon
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/latest-political-poll-judith-collins-plummets-in-preferred-pm-stakes/FTSYMC3FHJGGNSHVR2HS6HL5AE/
No mention from you of the reduction in popularity of the PM, people are
finally beginning to wake up and realise that she is just flim-flam.
Maybe but unlike the luckless Collins's, Ardern's numbers are a mere
variation
from a consistently high average. And you can take it that with both Collins
and National belly up in their own slough of despair and despond,
Arden's
as
good as yer gonna get for the time being, barring some unforeseen hiccup.
Once more, this this not about Collins or National.
But Elliot's article is about Collins and National - plus Labour - and it is
Elliot's article that Crash has put up for debate.
Read the article and you'll realise the essence of what you would call " the
topic" is in Crash's header, the last three words being the nub of the whole
thing: "...when humour bites". This leaves the whole topic wide open for
further commentary on the understated **substance** behind the entire piece
which in more or less equal measure makes fun of the shortcomings of all three
protagonists: the sitting government, Bridges and Collins. Elliot reserves a
special place in his heart for the stumbling, fumbling Bridges, metaphorically
putting the poor bastard out of his misery once and for all with his deft
coup-de-grâce, "National Oydentity"[2] - the unkindest cut of all. But this is
not to say that Elliot has not subtly addressed the feast of underlying
problems, albeit obliquely and also plainly for his own, and your, sweet
savouring. He's writing for fun because he's good at it.
So here, again, a little leavening of the discourse from time to time makes
for a more balanced perspective, particularly when those who must repeatedly
argue every nit-picking detail over issues **they know full well** they
themselves are powerless to act on, inevitably make holy fools of themselves.
Insistently pressing on others one's own earnestness of purpose while
simultaneously lacking even the faintest clue how **actually** to pursue it
one's self is strictly for the compulsive twits of this world.
Prior to the 2017 election, I said in plain words that the aspirant Labour
Party hadn't a hope of meeting the avalanche of policies and projects it had
announced. I then called it "irrational exuberance" - "pie in the sky".
And so it has turned out. Where it matters, and from all sides and for a
multitude of reasons, virtually the entire show has been hobbled from the very
outset, this made only worse and ever-increasingly difficult both by a
seriously ailing infrastructure this country cannot **now** afford to replace
let alone fully remediate[3], and more recent Act of God events et al - "The
best laid plans of mice and men...".
So I for one am not disappointed by Labour at all. What I see is, to the
greater degree, more or less what I had expected all along simply because I'm a
The higher one's expectations, the greater one's risk of disappointment. And
that goes s much for National as it does for any other party. Simply, our
political class is mediocre and certainly not up to the task of efficient,
effective governance. What's more, it seldom has been for at least the past 30
years, this due in large part to a complacent and compliant voting populace and
a parochial parish-pump Fourth Estate that for the most part should hang its
head in shame.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_former_Footlights_members
[2] Correction: "Nish-know Oydentity".
[3] Institutional drift and neglect, raised and fostered by institutional
self-satisfaction and complacency.
No the article is primarily about the government and their badly managed "pay
freeze" announcement.
Yes it also mentiuons ...
...includes...

National but not as the main issue.


You know the entire piece is froth from start to finish, and intentionally so. All three parties and their top-tier smells get the dig in the ribs they merit, while that allocated to Ardern and her lot is fair and proportionate to the responsibilities she and they are charged with.

As I say, when it comes to style, substance and incisiveness, a Cambridge LLM can be expected to give good value and in this Elliot has served the reader splendidly. With flair and wit, he sets out in words what people may well be thinking but cannot effectively articulate. Indeed, you may even now be musing over yourself as one such, who shall say?

That is all.
Tony
2021-05-19 00:16:50 UTC
Permalink
Removed for brevity
Post by James Christophers
You know the entire piece is froth from start to finish, and intentionally so.
All three parties and their top-tier smells get the dig in the ribs they merit,
while that allocated to Ardern and her lot is fair and proportionate to the
responsibilities she and they are charged with.
As I say, when it comes to style, substance and incisiveness, a Cambridge LLM
can be expected to give good value and in this Elliot has served the reader
splendidly. With flair and wit, he sets out in words what people may well be
thinking but cannot effectively articulate. Indeed, you may even now be musing
over yourself as one such, who shall say?
I have been described as one with flair and wit in the past, and rightfully so.
You? Oh come on, don't be bashful.
Post by James Christophers
That is all.
Rich80105
2021-05-17 02:06:25 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 16 May 2021 16:08:38 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 15 May 2021 21:54:11 -0700 (PDT), John Bowes
Post by John Bowes
Post by Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Gordon
Post by Crash
"Indeed the pay freeze fiasco could well be the frosty harbinger of a
broader winter of discontent to come, discontent that the Government
can?t simply talk away. Until recently, effective communication has
been one of this Government?s core skills if not signature
achievements. However we?re now seeing a decline in that skill set and
the Government could well be facing a winter of too many pigs with not
enough lipstick."
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/yesterdaze-to-freeze-or-not-to-freeze
From the link above
Simon Bridges has written a book, which poses an obvious question -
what did he do for the rest of the afternoon?
Anyhow I do think that the Governments defence is starting to wear thin in
places. You can fool everyone for some of the time, but not all of the time.
With the vacination programme completed we will have crossed the river and
now can switch horses. Having done a great job on the Covid-19 case it is
necessary to keep moving as people will soon forget COVID-19, after all to
date only 26 people have died. Now if it was 2,600 and increasing people
would remember it for longer. Of course the Government would be tossed out
pronto.
We are likely to need another vaccination next year. We are also
seeing that we do not want to have another community lock-down -
either full or partial. Travel overseas is likely to be restricted for
some time - the experience of being unable to return from some
countries without a lot of difficulty is becoming better known.
Post by Gordon
What Labour has to do is to start thinking through it policies, or at least
show/convience the public that they are good for NZ as a whole. Without this
we will have the realisation dawning on the voters that while this
Government was good on Covid-19 they are not so on just about everything
else.
Try looking at the list of other achievements then - they have
consistently shown that they are better for emplyment, better for
business, better for health, better for international dilomacy, better
for housing, better economic managers, and better for families, law
and order
Cites? And not just rhtoric but actual cites with analysis and comparisons with
any other government this century.
Waiting.
How disappointing, no evidence to support what Rich posted.
Perhaps this government is consistently better at promises and terrible at
delivery (which year was that again?).
No surprises at Rich failing to provide evidence of yet more of his lies :)
Neither you or Tony has been able to show any evidence against any one
of them.
You are the one that should be providing evidence of success by this
government. It is not for me to prove otherwise, however that is actually easy.
Where is your evidence, where are the cites?
Post by Rich80105
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/latest-political-poll-judith-collins-plummets-in-preferred-pm-stakes/FTSYMC3FHJGGNSHVR2HS6HL5AE/
No mention from you of the reduction in popularity of the PM, people are
finally beginning to wake up and realise that she is just flim-flam.
Absolutely, Tony, what a disaster - a shocking drop - after when was
the last time a Prime Minister had a preferred PM rating as low as
48.5%? You haven't mentioned the sudden rise in popularity of John
Key though, Tony - do you think some people are having difficulty
finding a current National MP that they would support?
Tony
2021-05-17 03:05:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Sun, 16 May 2021 16:08:38 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 15 May 2021 21:54:11 -0700 (PDT), John Bowes
Post by John Bowes
Post by Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Gordon
Post by Crash
"Indeed the pay freeze fiasco could well be the frosty harbinger of a
broader winter of discontent to come, discontent that the Government
can?t simply talk away. Until recently, effective communication has
been one of this Government?s core skills if not signature
achievements. However we?re now seeing a decline in that skill set and
the Government could well be facing a winter of too many pigs with not
enough lipstick."
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/yesterdaze-to-freeze-or-not-to-freeze
From the link above
Simon Bridges has written a book, which poses an obvious question -
what did he do for the rest of the afternoon?
Anyhow I do think that the Governments defence is starting to wear
thin
in
places. You can fool everyone for some of the time, but not all of the time.
With the vacination programme completed we will have crossed the river and
now can switch horses. Having done a great job on the Covid-19 case it is
necessary to keep moving as people will soon forget COVID-19, after
all
to
date only 26 people have died. Now if it was 2,600 and increasing people
would remember it for longer. Of course the Government would be tossed out
pronto.
We are likely to need another vaccination next year. We are also
seeing that we do not want to have another community lock-down -
either full or partial. Travel overseas is likely to be restricted for
some time - the experience of being unable to return from some
countries without a lot of difficulty is becoming better known.
Post by Gordon
What Labour has to do is to start thinking through it policies, or at least
show/convience the public that they are good for NZ as a whole.
Without
this
we will have the realisation dawning on the voters that while this
Government was good on Covid-19 they are not so on just about everything
else.
Try looking at the list of other achievements then - they have
consistently shown that they are better for emplyment, better for
business, better for health, better for international dilomacy, better
for housing, better economic managers, and better for families, law
and order
Cites? And not just rhtoric but actual cites with analysis and
comparisons
with
any other government this century.
Waiting.
How disappointing, no evidence to support what Rich posted.
Perhaps this government is consistently better at promises and terrible at
delivery (which year was that again?).
No surprises at Rich failing to provide evidence of yet more of his lies :)
Neither you or Tony has been able to show any evidence against any one
of them.
You are the one that should be providing evidence of success by this
government. It is not for me to prove otherwise, however that is actually easy.
Where is your evidence, where are the cites?
Post by Rich80105
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/latest-political-poll-judith-collins-plummets-in-preferred-pm-stakes/FTSYMC3FHJGGNSHVR2HS6HL5AE/
No mention from you of the reduction in popularity of the PM, people are
finally beginning to wake up and realise that she is just flim-flam.
Absolutely, Tony, what a disaster - a shocking drop - after when was
the last time a Prime Minister had a preferred PM rating as low as
48.5%? You haven't mentioned the sudden rise in popularity of John
Key though, Tony - do you think some people are having difficulty
finding a current National MP that they would support?
Why are you replying to James? Confused again are you?
This has nothing to do with Key or National.
The PM dropped in support, and is probably the start of a slide downwards. At
least I hope so.
I do not support National, I don't care how they do. I care how well, or in
this case how poorly, the government of the day is doing. And this one is doing
very poorly.
Now be a good boy and provide evidence of your assertion that they are doing
well, preferanbly without the childish sarcasm.
James Christophers
2021-05-17 04:58:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sun, 16 May 2021 16:08:38 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 15 May 2021 21:54:11 -0700 (PDT), John Bowes
Post by John Bowes
Post by Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Gordon
Post by Crash
"Indeed the pay freeze fiasco could well be the frosty harbinger of a
broader winter of discontent to come, discontent that the Government
can?t simply talk away. Until recently, effective communication has
been one of this Government?s core skills if not signature
achievements. However we?re now seeing a decline in that skill set and
the Government could well be facing a winter of too many pigs with not
enough lipstick."
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/yesterdaze-to-freeze-or-not-to-freeze
From the link above
Simon Bridges has written a book, which poses an obvious question -
what did he do for the rest of the afternoon?
Anyhow I do think that the Governments defence is starting to wear
thin
in
places. You can fool everyone for some of the time, but not all of the
time.
With the vacination programme completed we will have crossed the river
and
now can switch horses. Having done a great job on the Covid-19 case it is
necessary to keep moving as people will soon forget COVID-19, after
all
to
date only 26 people have died. Now if it was 2,600 and increasing people
would remember it for longer. Of course the Government would be tossed
out
pronto.
We are likely to need another vaccination next year. We are also
seeing that we do not want to have another community lock-down -
either full or partial. Travel overseas is likely to be restricted for
some time - the experience of being unable to return from some
countries without a lot of difficulty is becoming better known.
Post by Gordon
What Labour has to do is to start thinking through it policies, or at
least
show/convience the public that they are good for NZ as a whole.
Without
this
we will have the realisation dawning on the voters that while this
Government was good on Covid-19 they are not so on just about everything
else.
Try looking at the list of other achievements then - they have
consistently shown that they are better for emplyment, better for
business, better for health, better for international dilomacy, better
for housing, better economic managers, and better for families, law
and order
Cites? And not just rhtoric but actual cites with analysis and
comparisons
with
any other government this century.
Waiting.
How disappointing, no evidence to support what Rich posted.
Perhaps this government is consistently better at promises and terrible at
delivery (which year was that again?).
No surprises at Rich failing to provide evidence of yet more of his lies :)
Neither you or Tony has been able to show any evidence against any one
of them.
You are the one that should be providing evidence of success by this
government. It is not for me to prove otherwise, however that is actually easy.
Where is your evidence, where are the cites?
Post by Rich80105
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/latest-political-poll-judith-collins-plummets-in-preferred-pm-stakes/FTSYMC3FHJGGNSHVR2HS6HL5AE/
No mention from you of the reduction in popularity of the PM, people are
finally beginning to wake up and realise that she is just flim-flam.
Absolutely, Tony, what a disaster - a shocking drop - after when was
the last time a Prime Minister had a preferred PM rating as low as
48.5%? You haven't mentioned the sudden rise in popularity of John
Key though, Tony - do you think some people are having difficulty
finding a current National MP that they would support?
Why are you replying to James? Confused again are you?
This has nothing to do with Key or National.
The PM dropped in support, and is probably the start of a slide downwards. At
least I hope so.
I do not support National, I don't care how they do. I care how well, or in
this case how poorly, the government of the day is doing. And this one is doing
very poorly.
The Opposition is part and parcel of the government of New Zealand. It is, by default, integral to the very workings of **any** democratically elected government.

So, with you now sorted over that wee detail, if you're so personally troubled by Labour's incumbency - and you plainly are - it is for you now to do yourself a favour and simply call up the World Bank, or the IMF, or the NZX, or The City, or Bloomberg, or S&P et al, for a little reassurance and - without a shadow of doubt - a wholesome dollop of sorely-needed education.

And do make sure tolet us know what you have usefully learned.
Tony
2021-05-17 06:54:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sun, 16 May 2021 16:08:38 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 15 May 2021 21:54:11 -0700 (PDT), John Bowes
Post by John Bowes
Post by Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Gordon
Post by Crash
"Indeed the pay freeze fiasco could well be the frosty harbinger
of
a
broader winter of discontent to come, discontent that the Government
can?t simply talk away. Until recently, effective communication has
been one of this Government?s core skills if not signature
achievements. However we?re now seeing a decline in that skill
set
and
the Government could well be facing a winter of too many pigs
with
not
enough lipstick."
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/yesterdaze-to-freeze-or-not-to-freeze
From the link above
Simon Bridges has written a book, which poses an obvious question -
what did he do for the rest of the afternoon?
Anyhow I do think that the Governments defence is starting to wear
thin
in
places. You can fool everyone for some of the time, but not all of the
time.
With the vacination programme completed we will have crossed the river
and
now can switch horses. Having done a great job on the Covid-19 case
it
is
necessary to keep moving as people will soon forget COVID-19, after
all
to
date only 26 people have died. Now if it was 2,600 and increasing
people
would remember it for longer. Of course the Government would be tossed
out
pronto.
We are likely to need another vaccination next year. We are also
seeing that we do not want to have another community lock-down -
either full or partial. Travel overseas is likely to be restricted for
some time - the experience of being unable to return from some
countries without a lot of difficulty is becoming better known.
Post by Gordon
What Labour has to do is to start thinking through it policies, or at
least
show/convience the public that they are good for NZ as a whole.
Without
this
we will have the realisation dawning on the voters that while this
Government was good on Covid-19 they are not so on just about
everything
else.
Try looking at the list of other achievements then - they have
consistently shown that they are better for emplyment, better for
business, better for health, better for international dilomacy, better
for housing, better economic managers, and better for families, law
and order
Cites? And not just rhtoric but actual cites with analysis and
comparisons
with
any other government this century.
Waiting.
How disappointing, no evidence to support what Rich posted.
Perhaps this government is consistently better at promises and
terrible
at
delivery (which year was that again?).
No surprises at Rich failing to provide evidence of yet more of his lies :)
Neither you or Tony has been able to show any evidence against any one
of them.
You are the one that should be providing evidence of success by this
government. It is not for me to prove otherwise, however that is actually easy.
Where is your evidence, where are the cites?
Post by Rich80105
Post by John Bowes
Post by Tony
Post by Tony
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/latest-political-poll-judith-collins-plummets-in-preferred-pm-stakes/FTSYMC3FHJGGNSHVR2HS6HL5AE/
No mention from you of the reduction in popularity of the PM, people are
finally beginning to wake up and realise that she is just flim-flam.
Absolutely, Tony, what a disaster - a shocking drop - after when was
the last time a Prime Minister had a preferred PM rating as low as
48.5%? You haven't mentioned the sudden rise in popularity of John
Key though, Tony - do you think some people are having difficulty
finding a current National MP that they would support?
Why are you replying to James? Confused again are you?
This has nothing to do with Key or National.
The PM dropped in support, and is probably the start of a slide downwards. At
least I hope so.
I do not support National, I don't care how they do. I care how well, or in
this case how poorly, the government of the day is doing. And this one is doing
very poorly.
The Opposition is part and parcel of the government of New Zealand. It is, by
default, integral to the very workings of **any** democratically elected
government.
Yes I know that. As you well understand.
Post by James Christophers
So, with you now sorted over that wee detail, if you're so personally troubled
by Labour's incumbency - and you plainly are - it is for you now to do yourself
a favour and simply call up the World Bank, or the IMF, or the NZX, or The
City, or Bloomberg, or S&P et al, for a little reassurance and - without a
shadow of doubt - a wholesome dollop of sorely-needed education.
I am personally troubled by two things at this moment in time.
1. This government's failure to deliver on promises
and
2. Your inability to acknowledge that and your delight in abusing those who you
indulgently and falsely believe are your inferiors.
Whoops that is three things. My apology.
I do not care what National believe, they are currntly irrelevant.
Post by James Christophers
And do make sure tolet us know what you have usefully learned.
Go away Keith.
You have completely destroyed a fine post by Crash and turned it into a
personal bit of silliness. Well done.
Rich80105
2021-05-17 04:48:35 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 16 May 2021 19:14:55 -0700 (PDT), James Christophers
Post by Rich80105
On Sun, 16 May 2021 16:08:38 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 15 May 2021 21:54:11 -0700 (PDT), John Bowes
Post by John Bowes
Post by Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Gordon
Post by Crash
"Indeed the pay freeze fiasco could well be the frosty harbinger of a
broader winter of discontent to come, discontent that the Government
can?t simply talk away. Until recently, effective communication has
been one of this Government?s core skills if not signature
achievements. However we?re now seeing a decline in that skill set and
the Government could well be facing a winter of too many pigs with not
enough lipstick."
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/yesterdaze-to-freeze-or-not-to-freeze
From the link above
Simon Bridges has written a book, which poses an obvious question -
what did he do for the rest of the afternoon?
Anyhow I do think that the Governments defence is starting to wear thin
in
places. You can fool everyone for some of the time, but not all of the
time.
With the vacination programme completed we will have crossed the river
and
now can switch horses. Having done a great job on the Covid-19 case it is
necessary to keep moving as people will soon forget COVID-19, after all
to
date only 26 people have died. Now if it was 2,600 and increasing people
would remember it for longer. Of course the Government would be tossed
out
pronto.
We are likely to need another vaccination next year. We are also
seeing that we do not want to have another community lock-down -
either full or partial. Travel overseas is likely to be restricted for
some time - the experience of being unable to return from some
countries without a lot of difficulty is becoming better known.
Post by Gordon
What Labour has to do is to start thinking through it policies, or at
least
show/convience the public that they are good for NZ as a whole. Without
this
we will have the realisation dawning on the voters that while this
Government was good on Covid-19 they are not so on just about everything
else.
Try looking at the list of other achievements then - they have
consistently shown that they are better for emplyment, better for
business, better for health, better for international dilomacy, better
for housing, better economic managers, and better for families, law
and order
Cites? And not just rhtoric but actual cites with analysis and comparisons
with
any other government this century.
Waiting.
How disappointing, no evidence to support what Rich posted.
Perhaps this government is consistently better at promises and terrible at
delivery (which year was that again?).
No surprises at Rich failing to provide evidence of yet more of his lies :)
Neither you or Tony has been able to show any evidence against any one
of them.
You are the one that should be providing evidence of success by this
government. It is not for me to prove otherwise, however that is actually easy.
Where is your evidence, where are the cites?
Post by Rich80105
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/latest-political-poll-judith-collins-plummets-in-preferred-pm-stakes/FTSYMC3FHJGGNSHVR2HS6HL5AE/
No mention from you of the reduction in popularity of the PM, people are
finally beginning to wake up and realise that she is just flim-flam.
Absolutely, Tony, what a disaster - a shocking drop - after when was
the last time a Prime Minister had a preferred PM rating as low as
48.5%? You haven't mentioned the sudden rise in popularity of John
Key though, Tony - do you think some people are having difficulty
finding a current National MP that they would support?
Tova O'Brien injects a further sense of urgency into National's need to "do something" - anything.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/05/tova-o-brien-judith-collins-being-replaced-as-leader-is-now-a-matter-of-when-not-if.html
National will want to wait untl after 22 May, so that they will not
have had four leaders in one year:
John Key 27 Nov 2006 - 12 Dec 2016
Bill English 12 Dec 2016 - 27 Feb 2018
Simon Bridges 27 Feb 2018 - 22 May 2020
Todd Muller 22 May 2020 - 14 July 2020
Judith Collins 14 July 2020 - ?
John Bowes
2021-05-17 09:40:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Sun, 16 May 2021 19:14:55 -0700 (PDT), James Christophers
Post by Rich80105
On Sun, 16 May 2021 16:08:38 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 15 May 2021 21:54:11 -0700 (PDT), John Bowes
Post by John Bowes
Post by Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Gordon
Post by Crash
"Indeed the pay freeze fiasco could well be the frosty harbinger of a
broader winter of discontent to come, discontent that the Government
can?t simply talk away. Until recently, effective communication has
been one of this Government?s core skills if not signature
achievements. However we?re now seeing a decline in that skill set and
the Government could well be facing a winter of too many pigs with not
enough lipstick."
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/yesterdaze-to-freeze-or-not-to-freeze
From the link above
Simon Bridges has written a book, which poses an obvious question -
what did he do for the rest of the afternoon?
Anyhow I do think that the Governments defence is starting to wear thin
in
places. You can fool everyone for some of the time, but not all of the
time.
With the vacination programme completed we will have crossed the river
and
now can switch horses. Having done a great job on the Covid-19 case it
is
necessary to keep moving as people will soon forget COVID-19, after all
to
date only 26 people have died. Now if it was 2,600 and increasing people
would remember it for longer. Of course the Government would be tossed
out
pronto.
We are likely to need another vaccination next year. We are also
seeing that we do not want to have another community lock-down -
either full or partial. Travel overseas is likely to be restricted for
some time - the experience of being unable to return from some
countries without a lot of difficulty is becoming better known.
Post by Gordon
What Labour has to do is to start thinking through it policies, or at
least
show/convience the public that they are good for NZ as a whole. Without
this
we will have the realisation dawning on the voters that while this
Government was good on Covid-19 they are not so on just about everything
else.
Try looking at the list of other achievements then - they have
consistently shown that they are better for emplyment, better for
business, better for health, better for international dilomacy, better
for housing, better economic managers, and better for families, law
and order
Cites? And not just rhtoric but actual cites with analysis and comparisons
with
any other government this century.
Waiting.
How disappointing, no evidence to support what Rich posted.
Perhaps this government is consistently better at promises and terrible at
delivery (which year was that again?).
No surprises at Rich failing to provide evidence of yet more of his lies :)
Neither you or Tony has been able to show any evidence against any one
of them.
You are the one that should be providing evidence of success by this
government. It is not for me to prove otherwise, however that is actually easy.
Where is your evidence, where are the cites?
Post by Rich80105
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/latest-political-poll-judith-collins-plummets-in-preferred-pm-stakes/FTSYMC3FHJGGNSHVR2HS6HL5AE/
No mention from you of the reduction in popularity of the PM, people are
finally beginning to wake up and realise that she is just flim-flam.
Absolutely, Tony, what a disaster - a shocking drop - after when was
the last time a Prime Minister had a preferred PM rating as low as
48.5%? You haven't mentioned the sudden rise in popularity of John
Key though, Tony - do you think some people are having difficulty
finding a current National MP that they would support?
Tova O'Brien injects a further sense of urgency into National's need to "do something" - anything.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/05/tova-o-brien-judith-collins-being-replaced-as-leader-is-now-a-matter-of-when-not-if.html
National will want to wait untl after 22 May, so that they will not
John Key 27 Nov 2006 - 12 Dec 2016
Bill English 12 Dec 2016 - 27 Feb 2018
Simon Bridges 27 Feb 2018 - 22 May 2020
Todd Muller 22 May 2020 - 14 July 2020
Judith Collins 14 July 2020 - ?
Seen the list of Labour leaders Rich? not to mention the length of time they were leaders? Or is that going to be a waste of time in your current stupid mood?
George Black
2021-05-17 19:56:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Bowes
Post by Rich80105
On Sun, 16 May 2021 19:14:55 -0700 (PDT), James Christophers
Post by Rich80105
On Sun, 16 May 2021 16:08:38 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 15 May 2021 21:54:11 -0700 (PDT), John Bowes
Post by John Bowes
Post by Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Gordon
Post by Crash
"Indeed the pay freeze fiasco could well be the frosty harbinger of a
broader winter of discontent to come, discontent that the Government
can?t simply talk away. Until recently, effective communication has
been one of this Government?s core skills if not signature
achievements. However we?re now seeing a decline in that skill set and
the Government could well be facing a winter of too many pigs with not
enough lipstick."
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/yesterdaze-to-freeze-or-not-to-freeze
From the link above
Simon Bridges has written a book, which poses an obvious question -
what did he do for the rest of the afternoon?
Anyhow I do think that the Governments defence is starting to wear thin
in
places. You can fool everyone for some of the time, but not all of the
time.
With the vacination programme completed we will have crossed the river
and
now can switch horses. Having done a great job on the Covid-19 case it
is
necessary to keep moving as people will soon forget COVID-19, after all
to
date only 26 people have died. Now if it was 2,600 and increasing people
would remember it for longer. Of course the Government would be tossed
out
pronto.
We are likely to need another vaccination next year. We are also
seeing that we do not want to have another community lock-down -
either full or partial. Travel overseas is likely to be restricted for
some time - the experience of being unable to return from some
countries without a lot of difficulty is becoming better known.
Post by Gordon
What Labour has to do is to start thinking through it policies, or at
least
show/convience the public that they are good for NZ as a whole. Without
this
we will have the realisation dawning on the voters that while this
Government was good on Covid-19 they are not so on just about everything
else.
Try looking at the list of other achievements then - they have
consistently shown that they are better for emplyment, better for
business, better for health, better for international dilomacy, better
for housing, better economic managers, and better for families, law
and order
Cites? And not just rhtoric but actual cites with analysis and comparisons
with
any other government this century.
Waiting.
How disappointing, no evidence to support what Rich posted.
Perhaps this government is consistently better at promises and terrible at
delivery (which year was that again?).
No surprises at Rich failing to provide evidence of yet more of his lies :)
Neither you or Tony has been able to show any evidence against any one
of them.
You are the one that should be providing evidence of success by this
government. It is not for me to prove otherwise, however that is actually easy.
Where is your evidence, where are the cites?
Post by Rich80105
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/latest-political-poll-judith-collins-plummets-in-preferred-pm-stakes/FTSYMC3FHJGGNSHVR2HS6HL5AE/
No mention from you of the reduction in popularity of the PM, people are
finally beginning to wake up and realise that she is just flim-flam.
Absolutely, Tony, what a disaster - a shocking drop - after when was
the last time a Prime Minister had a preferred PM rating as low as
48.5%? You haven't mentioned the sudden rise in popularity of John
Key though, Tony - do you think some people are having difficulty
finding a current National MP that they would support?
Tova O'Brien injects a further sense of urgency into National's need to "do something" - anything.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/05/tova-o-brien-judith-collins-being-replaced-as-leader-is-now-a-matter-of-when-not-if.html
National will want to wait untl after 22 May, so that they will not
John Key 27 Nov 2006 - 12 Dec 2016
Bill English 12 Dec 2016 - 27 Feb 2018
Simon Bridges 27 Feb 2018 - 22 May 2020
Todd Muller 22 May 2020 - 14 July 2020
Judith Collins 14 July 2020 - ?
Seen the list of Labour leaders Rich? not to mention the length of time they were leaders? Or is that going to be a waste of time in your current stupid mood?
Ah but that's different 'cause its not part of the Great Plan.
How many liebor 'leaders' since Helen Clark ????
Rich80105
2021-05-17 21:40:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by George Black
Post by John Bowes
Post by Rich80105
On Sun, 16 May 2021 19:14:55 -0700 (PDT), James Christophers
Post by Rich80105
On Sun, 16 May 2021 16:08:38 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 15 May 2021 21:54:11 -0700 (PDT), John Bowes
Post by John Bowes
Post by Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Gordon
Post by Crash
"Indeed the pay freeze fiasco could well be the frosty harbinger of a
broader winter of discontent to come, discontent that the Government
can?t simply talk away. Until recently, effective communication has
been one of this Government?s core skills if not signature
achievements. However we?re now seeing a decline in that skill set and
the Government could well be facing a winter of too many pigs with not
enough lipstick."
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/yesterdaze-to-freeze-or-not-to-freeze
From the link above
Simon Bridges has written a book, which poses an obvious question -
what did he do for the rest of the afternoon?
Anyhow I do think that the Governments defence is starting to wear thin
in
places. You can fool everyone for some of the time, but not all of the
time.
With the vacination programme completed we will have crossed the river
and
now can switch horses. Having done a great job on the Covid-19 case it
is
necessary to keep moving as people will soon forget COVID-19, after all
to
date only 26 people have died. Now if it was 2,600 and increasing people
would remember it for longer. Of course the Government would be tossed
out
pronto.
We are likely to need another vaccination next year. We are also
seeing that we do not want to have another community lock-down -
either full or partial. Travel overseas is likely to be restricted for
some time - the experience of being unable to return from some
countries without a lot of difficulty is becoming better known.
Post by Gordon
What Labour has to do is to start thinking through it policies, or at
least
show/convience the public that they are good for NZ as a whole. Without
this
we will have the realisation dawning on the voters that while this
Government was good on Covid-19 they are not so on just about everything
else.
Try looking at the list of other achievements then - they have
consistently shown that they are better for emplyment, better for
business, better for health, better for international dilomacy, better
for housing, better economic managers, and better for families, law
and order
Cites? And not just rhtoric but actual cites with analysis and comparisons
with
any other government this century.
Waiting.
How disappointing, no evidence to support what Rich posted.
Perhaps this government is consistently better at promises and terrible at
delivery (which year was that again?).
No surprises at Rich failing to provide evidence of yet more of his lies :)
Neither you or Tony has been able to show any evidence against any one
of them.
You are the one that should be providing evidence of success by this
government. It is not for me to prove otherwise, however that is actually easy.
Where is your evidence, where are the cites?
Post by Rich80105
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/latest-political-poll-judith-collins-plummets-in-preferred-pm-stakes/FTSYMC3FHJGGNSHVR2HS6HL5AE/
No mention from you of the reduction in popularity of the PM, people are
finally beginning to wake up and realise that she is just flim-flam.
Absolutely, Tony, what a disaster - a shocking drop - after when was
the last time a Prime Minister had a preferred PM rating as low as
48.5%? You haven't mentioned the sudden rise in popularity of John
Key though, Tony - do you think some people are having difficulty
finding a current National MP that they would support?
Tova O'Brien injects a further sense of urgency into National's need to "do something" - anything.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/05/tova-o-brien-judith-collins-being-replaced-as-leader-is-now-a-matter-of-when-not-if.html
National will want to wait untl after 22 May, so that they will not
John Key 27 Nov 2006 - 12 Dec 2016
Bill English 12 Dec 2016 - 27 Feb 2018
Simon Bridges 27 Feb 2018 - 22 May 2020
Todd Muller 22 May 2020 - 14 July 2020
Judith Collins 14 July 2020 - ?
Seen the list of Labour leaders Rich? not to mention the length of time they were leaders? Or is that going to be a waste of time in your current stupid mood?
Ah but that's different 'cause its not part of the Great Plan.
How many liebor 'leaders' since Helen Clark ????
You are absolutely correct, George. Yes we have seen it all before -
there is nothing the media likes more than internal dissent and 'scalp
hunting'. Labour came through those times; they lost some that they
needed to lose, and they lost a few they would have been better
keeping, and I suspect National will do exactly the same.
Crash
2021-05-17 23:02:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
Post by George Black
Post by John Bowes
Post by Rich80105
On Sun, 16 May 2021 19:14:55 -0700 (PDT), James Christophers
Post by Rich80105
On Sun, 16 May 2021 16:08:38 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 15 May 2021 21:54:11 -0700 (PDT), John Bowes
Post by John Bowes
Post by Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Gordon
Post by Crash
"Indeed the pay freeze fiasco could well be the frosty harbinger of a
broader winter of discontent to come, discontent that the Government
can?t simply talk away. Until recently, effective communication has
been one of this Government?s core skills if not signature
achievements. However we?re now seeing a decline in that skill set and
the Government could well be facing a winter of too many pigs with not
enough lipstick."
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/yesterdaze-to-freeze-or-not-to-freeze
From the link above
Simon Bridges has written a book, which poses an obvious question -
what did he do for the rest of the afternoon?
Anyhow I do think that the Governments defence is starting to wear thin
in
places. You can fool everyone for some of the time, but not all of the
time.
With the vacination programme completed we will have crossed the river
and
now can switch horses. Having done a great job on the Covid-19 case it
is
necessary to keep moving as people will soon forget COVID-19, after all
to
date only 26 people have died. Now if it was 2,600 and increasing people
would remember it for longer. Of course the Government would be tossed
out
pronto.
We are likely to need another vaccination next year. We are also
seeing that we do not want to have another community lock-down -
either full or partial. Travel overseas is likely to be restricted for
some time - the experience of being unable to return from some
countries without a lot of difficulty is becoming better known.
Post by Gordon
What Labour has to do is to start thinking through it policies, or at
least
show/convience the public that they are good for NZ as a whole. Without
this
we will have the realisation dawning on the voters that while this
Government was good on Covid-19 they are not so on just about everything
else.
Try looking at the list of other achievements then - they have
consistently shown that they are better for emplyment, better for
business, better for health, better for international dilomacy, better
for housing, better economic managers, and better for families, law
and order
Cites? And not just rhtoric but actual cites with analysis and comparisons
with
any other government this century.
Waiting.
How disappointing, no evidence to support what Rich posted.
Perhaps this government is consistently better at promises and terrible at
delivery (which year was that again?).
No surprises at Rich failing to provide evidence of yet more of his lies :)
Neither you or Tony has been able to show any evidence against any one
of them.
You are the one that should be providing evidence of success by this
government. It is not for me to prove otherwise, however that is actually easy.
Where is your evidence, where are the cites?
Post by Rich80105
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/latest-political-poll-judith-collins-plummets-in-preferred-pm-stakes/FTSYMC3FHJGGNSHVR2HS6HL5AE/
No mention from you of the reduction in popularity of the PM, people are
finally beginning to wake up and realise that she is just flim-flam.
Absolutely, Tony, what a disaster - a shocking drop - after when was
the last time a Prime Minister had a preferred PM rating as low as
48.5%? You haven't mentioned the sudden rise in popularity of John
Key though, Tony - do you think some people are having difficulty
finding a current National MP that they would support?
Tova O'Brien injects a further sense of urgency into National's need to "do something" - anything.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/05/tova-o-brien-judith-collins-being-replaced-as-leader-is-now-a-matter-of-when-not-if.html
National will want to wait untl after 22 May, so that they will not
John Key 27 Nov 2006 - 12 Dec 2016
Bill English 12 Dec 2016 - 27 Feb 2018
Simon Bridges 27 Feb 2018 - 22 May 2020
Todd Muller 22 May 2020 - 14 July 2020
Judith Collins 14 July 2020 - ?
Seen the list of Labour leaders Rich? not to mention the length of time they were leaders? Or is that going to be a waste of time in your current stupid mood?
Ah but that's different 'cause its not part of the Great Plan.
How many liebor 'leaders' since Helen Clark ????
You are absolutely correct, George. Yes we have seen it all before -
there is nothing the media likes more than internal dissent and 'scalp
hunting'. Labour came through those times; they lost some that they
needed to lose, and they lost a few they would have been better
keeping, and I suspect National will do exactly the same.
With Labour, those who followed Helen Clark as leader (Goff, Shearer,
Cunliffe and Little) were all replaced because they could not gain
political traction. With National, English and Bridges are in the
same category, Muller resigned because of health issues and Collins is
still 'in office'.

So, Rich, what is the point you are trying to make and how does this
support your Labour-good National-bad mantra?


--
Crash McBash
George Black
2021-05-18 00:00:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Crash
With Labour, those who followed Helen Clark as leader (Goff, Shearer,
Cunliffe and Little) were all replaced because they could not gain
political traction. With National, English and Bridges are in the
same category, Muller resigned because of health issues and Collins is
still 'in office'.
So, Rich, what is the point you are trying to make and how does this
support your Labour-good National-bad mantra?
Its called "I'm changing the subject because, as usual, I'm wrong"
A not uncommon problem with that poster
Rich80105
2021-05-18 03:18:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
Post by George Black
Post by John Bowes
Post by Rich80105
On Sun, 16 May 2021 19:14:55 -0700 (PDT), James Christophers
Post by Rich80105
On Sun, 16 May 2021 16:08:38 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 15 May 2021 21:54:11 -0700 (PDT), John Bowes
Post by John Bowes
Post by Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Gordon
Post by Crash
"Indeed the pay freeze fiasco could well be the frosty harbinger of a
broader winter of discontent to come, discontent that the Government
can?t simply talk away. Until recently, effective communication has
been one of this Government?s core skills if not signature
achievements. However we?re now seeing a decline in that skill set and
the Government could well be facing a winter of too many pigs with not
enough lipstick."
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/yesterdaze-to-freeze-or-not-to-freeze
From the link above
Simon Bridges has written a book, which poses an obvious question -
what did he do for the rest of the afternoon?
Anyhow I do think that the Governments defence is starting to wear thin
in
places. You can fool everyone for some of the time, but not all of the
time.
With the vacination programme completed we will have crossed the river
and
now can switch horses. Having done a great job on the Covid-19 case it
is
necessary to keep moving as people will soon forget COVID-19, after all
to
date only 26 people have died. Now if it was 2,600 and increasing people
would remember it for longer. Of course the Government would be tossed
out
pronto.
We are likely to need another vaccination next year. We are also
seeing that we do not want to have another community lock-down -
either full or partial. Travel overseas is likely to be restricted for
some time - the experience of being unable to return from some
countries without a lot of difficulty is becoming better known.
Post by Gordon
What Labour has to do is to start thinking through it policies, or at
least
show/convience the public that they are good for NZ as a whole. Without
this
we will have the realisation dawning on the voters that while this
Government was good on Covid-19 they are not so on just about everything
else.
Try looking at the list of other achievements then - they have
consistently shown that they are better for emplyment, better for
business, better for health, better for international dilomacy, better
for housing, better economic managers, and better for families, law
and order
Cites? And not just rhtoric but actual cites with analysis and comparisons
with
any other government this century.
Waiting.
How disappointing, no evidence to support what Rich posted.
Perhaps this government is consistently better at promises and terrible at
delivery (which year was that again?).
No surprises at Rich failing to provide evidence of yet more of his lies :)
Neither you or Tony has been able to show any evidence against any one
of them.
You are the one that should be providing evidence of success by this
government. It is not for me to prove otherwise, however that is actually easy.
Where is your evidence, where are the cites?
Post by Rich80105
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/latest-political-poll-judith-collins-plummets-in-preferred-pm-stakes/FTSYMC3FHJGGNSHVR2HS6HL5AE/
No mention from you of the reduction in popularity of the PM, people are
finally beginning to wake up and realise that she is just flim-flam.
Absolutely, Tony, what a disaster - a shocking drop - after when was
the last time a Prime Minister had a preferred PM rating as low as
48.5%? You haven't mentioned the sudden rise in popularity of John
Key though, Tony - do you think some people are having difficulty
finding a current National MP that they would support?
Tova O'Brien injects a further sense of urgency into National's need to "do something" - anything.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/05/tova-o-brien-judith-collins-being-replaced-as-leader-is-now-a-matter-of-when-not-if.html
National will want to wait untl after 22 May, so that they will not
John Key 27 Nov 2006 - 12 Dec 2016
Bill English 12 Dec 2016 - 27 Feb 2018
Simon Bridges 27 Feb 2018 - 22 May 2020
Todd Muller 22 May 2020 - 14 July 2020
Judith Collins 14 July 2020 - ?
Seen the list of Labour leaders Rich? not to mention the length of time they were leaders? Or is that going to be a waste of time in your current stupid mood?
Ah but that's different 'cause its not part of the Great Plan.
How many liebor 'leaders' since Helen Clark ????
You are absolutely correct, George. Yes we have seen it all before -
there is nothing the media likes more than internal dissent and 'scalp
hunting'. Labour came through those times; they lost some that they
needed to lose, and they lost a few they would have been better
keeping, and I suspect National will do exactly the same.
With Labour, those who followed Helen Clark as leader (Goff, Shearer,
Cunliffe and Little) were all replaced because they could not gain
political traction. With National, English and Bridges are in the
same category, Muller resigned because of health issues and Collins is
still 'in office'.
So, Rich, what is the point you are trying to make and how does this
support your Labour-good National-bad mantra?
I was merely agreeing with George - do you have a problem with that,
Crash?

As the subject says: "The Truth hurts when humour bites" - it sort of
covers the many twists taken by Tony and others to cover a range of
topics . . .
Tony
2021-05-18 03:43:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
Post by George Black
Post by John Bowes
Post by Rich80105
On Sun, 16 May 2021 19:14:55 -0700 (PDT), James Christophers
Post by Rich80105
On Sun, 16 May 2021 16:08:38 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 15 May 2021 21:54:11 -0700 (PDT), John Bowes
Post by John Bowes
Post by Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Gordon
Post by Crash
"Indeed the pay freeze fiasco could well be the frosty
harbinger of a
broader winter of discontent to come, discontent that the
Government
can?t simply talk away. Until recently, effective
communication has
been one of this Government?s core skills if not signature
achievements. However we?re now seeing a decline in that skill
set and
the Government could well be facing a winter of too many pigs
with not
enough lipstick."
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/yesterdaze-to-freeze-or-not-to-freeze
From the link above
Simon Bridges has written a book, which poses an obvious
question -
what did he do for the rest of the afternoon?
Anyhow I do think that the Governments defence is starting to
wear thin
in
places. You can fool everyone for some of the time, but not all
of the
time.
With the vacination programme completed we will have crossed
the river
and
now can switch horses. Having done a great job on the Covid-19
case it
is
necessary to keep moving as people will soon forget COVID-19,
after all
to
date only 26 people have died. Now if it was 2,600 and
increasing people
would remember it for longer. Of course the Government would be
tossed
out
pronto.
We are likely to need another vaccination next year. We are also
seeing that we do not want to have another community lock-down -
either full or partial. Travel overseas is likely to be
restricted for
some time - the experience of being unable to return from some
countries without a lot of difficulty is becoming better known.
Post by Gordon
What Labour has to do is to start thinking through it policies,
or at
least
show/convience the public that they are good for NZ as a whole.
Without
this
we will have the realisation dawning on the voters that while
this
Government was good on Covid-19 they are not so on just about
everything
else.
Try looking at the list of other achievements then - they have
consistently shown that they are better for emplyment, better for
business, better for health, better for international dilomacy,
better
for housing, better economic managers, and better for families,
law
and order
Cites? And not just rhtoric but actual cites with analysis and
comparisons
with
any other government this century.
Waiting.
How disappointing, no evidence to support what Rich posted.
Perhaps this government is consistently better at promises and
terrible at
delivery (which year was that again?).
No surprises at Rich failing to provide evidence of yet more of his
lies :)
Neither you or Tony has been able to show any evidence against any one
of them.
You are the one that should be providing evidence of success by this
government. It is not for me to prove otherwise, however that is
actually easy.
Where is your evidence, where are the cites?
Post by Rich80105
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/latest-political-poll-judith-collins-plummets-in-preferred-pm-stakes/FTSYMC3FHJGGNSHVR2HS6HL5AE/
No mention from you of the reduction in popularity of the PM, people are
finally beginning to wake up and realise that she is just flim-flam.
Absolutely, Tony, what a disaster - a shocking drop - after when was
the last time a Prime Minister had a preferred PM rating as low as
48.5%? You haven't mentioned the sudden rise in popularity of John
Key though, Tony - do you think some people are having difficulty
finding a current National MP that they would support?
Tova O'Brien injects a further sense of urgency into National's need to
"do something" - anything.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/05/tova-o-brien-judith-collins-being-replaced-as-leader-is-now-a-matter-of-when-not-if.html
National will want to wait untl after 22 May, so that they will not
John Key 27 Nov 2006 - 12 Dec 2016
Bill English 12 Dec 2016 - 27 Feb 2018
Simon Bridges 27 Feb 2018 - 22 May 2020
Todd Muller 22 May 2020 - 14 July 2020
Judith Collins 14 July 2020 - ?
Seen the list of Labour leaders Rich? not to mention the length of time
they were leaders? Or is that going to be a waste of time in your current
stupid mood?
Ah but that's different 'cause its not part of the Great Plan.
How many liebor 'leaders' since Helen Clark ????
You are absolutely correct, George. Yes we have seen it all before -
there is nothing the media likes more than internal dissent and 'scalp
hunting'. Labour came through those times; they lost some that they
needed to lose, and they lost a few they would have been better
keeping, and I suspect National will do exactly the same.
With Labour, those who followed Helen Clark as leader (Goff, Shearer,
Cunliffe and Little) were all replaced because they could not gain
political traction. With National, English and Bridges are in the
same category, Muller resigned because of health issues and Collins is
still 'in office'.
So, Rich, what is the point you are trying to make and how does this
support your Labour-good National-bad mantra?
I was merely agreeing with George - do you have a problem with that,
Crash?
As the subject says: "The Truth hurts when humour bites" - it sort of
covers the many twists taken by Tony and others to cover a range of
topics . . .
I covered one topic only, that of the original post. You are the hijacker of
this thread.
John Bowes
2021-05-18 05:10:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
Post by George Black
Post by John Bowes
Post by Rich80105
On Sun, 16 May 2021 19:14:55 -0700 (PDT), James Christophers
Post by Rich80105
On Sun, 16 May 2021 16:08:38 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 15 May 2021 21:54:11 -0700 (PDT), John Bowes
Post by John Bowes
Post by Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Gordon
Post by Crash
"Indeed the pay freeze fiasco could well be the frosty harbinger of a
broader winter of discontent to come, discontent that the Government
can?t simply talk away. Until recently, effective communication has
been one of this Government?s core skills if not signature
achievements. However we?re now seeing a decline in that skill set and
the Government could well be facing a winter of too many pigs with not
enough lipstick."
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/yesterdaze-to-freeze-or-not-to-freeze
From the link above
Simon Bridges has written a book, which poses an obvious question -
what did he do for the rest of the afternoon?
Anyhow I do think that the Governments defence is starting to wear thin
in
places. You can fool everyone for some of the time, but not all of the
time.
With the vacination programme completed we will have crossed the river
and
now can switch horses. Having done a great job on the Covid-19 case it
is
necessary to keep moving as people will soon forget COVID-19, after all
to
date only 26 people have died. Now if it was 2,600 and increasing people
would remember it for longer. Of course the Government would be tossed
out
pronto.
We are likely to need another vaccination next year. We are also
seeing that we do not want to have another community lock-down -
either full or partial. Travel overseas is likely to be restricted for
some time - the experience of being unable to return from some
countries without a lot of difficulty is becoming better known.
Post by Gordon
What Labour has to do is to start thinking through it policies, or at
least
show/convience the public that they are good for NZ as a whole. Without
this
we will have the realisation dawning on the voters that while this
Government was good on Covid-19 they are not so on just about everything
else.
Try looking at the list of other achievements then - they have
consistently shown that they are better for emplyment, better for
business, better for health, better for international dilomacy, better
for housing, better economic managers, and better for families, law
and order
Cites? And not just rhtoric but actual cites with analysis and comparisons
with
any other government this century.
Waiting.
How disappointing, no evidence to support what Rich posted.
Perhaps this government is consistently better at promises and terrible at
delivery (which year was that again?).
No surprises at Rich failing to provide evidence of yet more of his lies :)
Neither you or Tony has been able to show any evidence against any one
of them.
You are the one that should be providing evidence of success by this
government. It is not for me to prove otherwise, however that is actually easy.
Where is your evidence, where are the cites?
Post by Rich80105
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/latest-political-poll-judith-collins-plummets-in-preferred-pm-stakes/FTSYMC3FHJGGNSHVR2HS6HL5AE/
No mention from you of the reduction in popularity of the PM, people are
finally beginning to wake up and realise that she is just flim-flam.
Absolutely, Tony, what a disaster - a shocking drop - after when was
the last time a Prime Minister had a preferred PM rating as low as
48.5%? You haven't mentioned the sudden rise in popularity of John
Key though, Tony - do you think some people are having difficulty
finding a current National MP that they would support?
Tova O'Brien injects a further sense of urgency into National's need to "do something" - anything.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/05/tova-o-brien-judith-collins-being-replaced-as-leader-is-now-a-matter-of-when-not-if.html
National will want to wait untl after 22 May, so that they will not
John Key 27 Nov 2006 - 12 Dec 2016
Bill English 12 Dec 2016 - 27 Feb 2018
Simon Bridges 27 Feb 2018 - 22 May 2020
Todd Muller 22 May 2020 - 14 July 2020
Judith Collins 14 July 2020 - ?
Seen the list of Labour leaders Rich? not to mention the length of time they were leaders? Or is that going to be a waste of time in your current stupid mood?
Ah but that's different 'cause its not part of the Great Plan.
How many liebor 'leaders' since Helen Clark ????
You are absolutely correct, George. Yes we have seen it all before -
there is nothing the media likes more than internal dissent and 'scalp
hunting'. Labour came through those times; they lost some that they
needed to lose, and they lost a few they would have been better
keeping, and I suspect National will do exactly the same.
With Labour, those who followed Helen Clark as leader (Goff, Shearer,
Cunliffe and Little) were all replaced because they could not gain
political traction. With National, English and Bridges are in the
same category, Muller resigned because of health issues and Collins is
still 'in office'.
So, Rich, what is the point you are trying to make and how does this
support your Labour-good National-bad mantra?
I was merely agreeing with George - do you have a problem with that,
Crash?
As the subject says: "The Truth hurts when humour bites" - it sort of
covers the many twists taken by Tony and others to cover a range of
topics . . .
Not to mention your regular imitation of a corkscrew Rich :)
Rich80105
2021-05-17 04:43:15 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 16 May 2021 19:14:55 -0700 (PDT), James Christophers
Post by Rich80105
On Sun, 16 May 2021 16:08:38 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 15 May 2021 21:54:11 -0700 (PDT), John Bowes
Post by John Bowes
Post by Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Gordon
Post by Crash
"Indeed the pay freeze fiasco could well be the frosty harbinger of a
broader winter of discontent to come, discontent that the Government
can?t simply talk away. Until recently, effective communication has
been one of this Government?s core skills if not signature
achievements. However we?re now seeing a decline in that skill set and
the Government could well be facing a winter of too many pigs with not
enough lipstick."
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/yesterdaze-to-freeze-or-not-to-freeze
From the link above
Simon Bridges has written a book, which poses an obvious question -
what did he do for the rest of the afternoon?
Anyhow I do think that the Governments defence is starting to wear thin
in
places. You can fool everyone for some of the time, but not all of the
time.
With the vacination programme completed we will have crossed the river
and
now can switch horses. Having done a great job on the Covid-19 case it is
necessary to keep moving as people will soon forget COVID-19, after all
to
date only 26 people have died. Now if it was 2,600 and increasing people
would remember it for longer. Of course the Government would be tossed
out
pronto.
We are likely to need another vaccination next year. We are also
seeing that we do not want to have another community lock-down -
either full or partial. Travel overseas is likely to be restricted for
some time - the experience of being unable to return from some
countries without a lot of difficulty is becoming better known.
Post by Gordon
What Labour has to do is to start thinking through it policies, or at
least
show/convience the public that they are good for NZ as a whole. Without
this
we will have the realisation dawning on the voters that while this
Government was good on Covid-19 they are not so on just about everything
else.
Try looking at the list of other achievements then - they have
consistently shown that they are better for emplyment, better for
business, better for health, better for international dilomacy, better
for housing, better economic managers, and better for families, law
and order
Cites? And not just rhtoric but actual cites with analysis and comparisons
with
any other government this century.
Waiting.
How disappointing, no evidence to support what Rich posted.
Perhaps this government is consistently better at promises and terrible at
delivery (which year was that again?).
No surprises at Rich failing to provide evidence of yet more of his lies :)
Neither you or Tony has been able to show any evidence against any one
of them.
You are the one that should be providing evidence of success by this
government. It is not for me to prove otherwise, however that is actually easy.
Where is your evidence, where are the cites?
Post by Rich80105
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/latest-political-poll-judith-collins-plummets-in-preferred-pm-stakes/FTSYMC3FHJGGNSHVR2HS6HL5AE/
No mention from you of the reduction in popularity of the PM, people are
finally beginning to wake up and realise that she is just flim-flam.
Absolutely, Tony, what a disaster - a shocking drop - after when was
the last time a Prime Minister had a preferred PM rating as low as
48.5%? You haven't mentioned the sudden rise in popularity of John
Key though, Tony - do you think some people are having difficulty
finding a current National MP that they would support?
Tova O'Brien injects a further sense of urgency into National's need to "do something" - anything.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/05/tova-o-brien-judith-collins-being-replaced-as-leader-is-now-a-matter-of-when-not-if.html
If National wait until after 22 May then they will have avoided four
leaders in one year - :
Bill English 12 December 2016 to 27 February 2018
Simon Bridges 27 February 2018 to 22 May 2020
Todd Muller 22 May 2020 to 14 July 2020
Judith Collins 14 July 2020 - ???
Gordon
2021-05-17 03:51:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 15 May 2021 21:54:11 -0700 (PDT), John Bowes
Post by John Bowes
Post by Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Gordon
Post by Crash
"Indeed the pay freeze fiasco could well be the frosty harbinger of a
broader winter of discontent to come, discontent that the Government
can?t simply talk away. Until recently, effective communication has
been one of this Government?s core skills if not signature
achievements. However we?re now seeing a decline in that skill set and
the Government could well be facing a winter of too many pigs with not
enough lipstick."
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/yesterdaze-to-freeze-or-not-to-freeze
From the link above
Simon Bridges has written a book, which poses an obvious question -
what did he do for the rest of the afternoon?
Anyhow I do think that the Governments defence is starting to wear thin in
places. You can fool everyone for some of the time, but not all of the time.
With the vacination programme completed we will have crossed the river and
now can switch horses. Having done a great job on the Covid-19 case it is
necessary to keep moving as people will soon forget COVID-19, after all to
date only 26 people have died. Now if it was 2,600 and increasing people
would remember it for longer. Of course the Government would be tossed out
pronto.
We are likely to need another vaccination next year. We are also
seeing that we do not want to have another community lock-down -
either full or partial. Travel overseas is likely to be restricted for
some time - the experience of being unable to return from some
countries without a lot of difficulty is becoming better known.
Post by Gordon
What Labour has to do is to start thinking through it policies, or at least
show/convience the public that they are good for NZ as a whole. Without this
we will have the realisation dawning on the voters that while this
Government was good on Covid-19 they are not so on just about everything
else.
Try looking at the list of other achievements then - they have
consistently shown that they are better for emplyment, better for
business, better for health, better for international dilomacy, better
for housing, better economic managers, and better for families, law
and order
Cites? And not just rhtoric but actual cites with analysis and comparisons with
any other government this century.
Waiting.
How disappointing, no evidence to support what Rich posted.
Perhaps this government is consistently better at promises and terrible at
delivery (which year was that again?).
No surprises at Rich failing to provide evidence of yet more of his lies :)
Neither you or Tony has been able to show any evidence against any one
of them.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/latest-political-poll-judith-collins-plummets-in-preferred-pm-stakes/FTSYMC3FHJGGNSHVR2HS6HL5AE/
No Rich, once again you have got this all wrong. It is National which are
achieving something. It could be argued that Labour achieves nothing but we
all have something better to do.
Crash
2021-05-15 03:47:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
Post by Gordon
Post by Crash
"Indeed the pay freeze fiasco could well be the frosty harbinger of a
broader winter of discontent to come, discontent that the Government
can?t simply talk away. Until recently, effective communication has
been one of this Government?s core skills if not signature
achievements. However we?re now seeing a decline in that skill set and
the Government could well be facing a winter of too many pigs with not
enough lipstick."
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/yesterdaze-to-freeze-or-not-to-freeze
From the link above
Simon Bridges has written a book, which poses an obvious question -
what did he do for the rest of the afternoon?
Anyhow I do think that the Governments defence is starting to wear thin in
places. You can fool everyone for some of the time, but not all of the time.
With the vacination programme completed we will have crossed the river and
now can switch horses. Having done a great job on the Covid-19 case it is
necessary to keep moving as people will soon forget COVID-19, after all to
date only 26 people have died. Now if it was 2,600 and increasing people
would remember it for longer. Of course the Government would be tossed out
pronto.
We are likely to need another vaccination next year. We are also
seeing that we do not want to have another community lock-down -
either full or partial. Travel overseas is likely to be restricted for
some time - the experience of being unable to return from some
countries without a lot of difficulty is becoming better known.
Post by Gordon
What Labour has to do is to start thinking through it policies, or at least
show/convience the public that they are good for NZ as a whole. Without this
we will have the realisation dawning on the voters that while this
Government was good on Covid-19 they are not so on just about everything
else.
Try looking at the list of other achievements then - they have
consistently shown that they are better for emplyment, better for
business, better for health, better for international dilomacy, better
for housing, better economic managers, and better for families, law
and order, the disadvantaged.
In the past Rich your list of achievements came from the Labour party
website, so it was a list of changes made and initiatives started. OK
in its place, but significantly missing on delivery. There is lots of
claims about Housing - all good and some indicating and intent to
tackle long-term issues with Housing that previous governments (of
both colours) failed to do. For example "Expanded Housing First to
help long-term homeless people into homes". Time to add to-date
numbers such as "To date, over n homeless have been moved". The
absence of this delivery data gives rise to the suspicion that the
"Expending Housing First" initiative has not actually resulted in
anyone being moved as intended.
Post by Rich80105
What do you think National could or would have done better?
Gordon did not mention National. This is not about National.


--
Crash McBash
George Black
2021-05-15 19:56:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
Post by Gordon
Post by Crash
"Indeed the pay freeze fiasco could well be the frosty harbinger of a
broader winter of discontent to come, discontent that the Government
can?t simply talk away. Until recently, effective communication has
been one of this Government?s core skills if not signature
achievements. However we?re now seeing a decline in that skill set and
the Government could well be facing a winter of too many pigs with not
enough lipstick."
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/yesterdaze-to-freeze-or-not-to-freeze
From the link above
Simon Bridges has written a book, which poses an obvious question -
what did he do for the rest of the afternoon?
Anyhow I do think that the Governments defence is starting to wear thin in
places. You can fool everyone for some of the time, but not all of the time.
With the vacination programme completed we will have crossed the river and
now can switch horses. Having done a great job on the Covid-19 case it is
necessary to keep moving as people will soon forget COVID-19, after all to
date only 26 people have died. Now if it was 2,600 and increasing people
would remember it for longer. Of course the Government would be tossed out
pronto.
We are likely to need another vaccination next year. We are also
seeing that we do not want to have another community lock-down -
either full or partial. Travel overseas is likely to be restricted for
some time - the experience of being unable to return from some
countries without a lot of difficulty is becoming better known.
Post by Gordon
What Labour has to do is to start thinking through it policies, or at least
show/convience the public that they are good for NZ as a whole. Without this
we will have the realisation dawning on the voters that while this
Government was good on Covid-19 they are not so on just about everything
else.
Try looking at the list of other achievements then - they have
consistently shown that they are better for emplyment, better for
business, better for health, better for international dilomacy, better
for housing, better economic managers, and better for families, law
and order, the disadvantaged.
In the past Rich your list of achievements came from the Labour party
website, so it was a list of changes made and initiatives started. OK
in its place, but significantly missing on delivery. There is lots of
claims about Housing - all good and some indicating and intent to
tackle long-term issues with Housing that previous governments (of
both colours) failed to do. For example "Expanded Housing First to
help long-term homeless people into homes". Time to add to-date
numbers such as "To date, over n homeless have been moved". The
absence of this delivery data gives rise to the suspicion that the
"Expending Housing First" initiative has not actually resulted in
anyone being moved as intended.
Post by Rich80105
What do you think National could or would have done better?
Gordon did not mention National. This is not about National.
The number of overnight parkers in my area have not reduced.
Using that as an indicator nothing done recently has worked and winters
coming
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