Discussion:
A gift to the nation...
(too old to reply)
Apairateef
2007-11-11 07:42:10 UTC
Permalink
That's what Australian Archives are calling the availability of digitised
service records of all the WW1 personnel they have online (
http://www.naa.gov.au/whats-on/online/feature-exhibits/gift.aspx ). I truly
applaud them for this and really get peeved that our National Archives don't
see this type of thing as important. NZ archives have transferred the NZ
personnel records to their depositories in collaboration with NZ Defence
Forces.

The NZ records transferred are for personnel whose service ended prior to 31
December 1920 and to order online costs $25.
http://www.archives.govt.nz/doingresearch/nzdfpersonnelfiles.php

I have spent many hours fascinated over the last couple of years off and on
reading the online images of records of people i don't know, I guess because
the war was so horrific and it was such a tragedy.

The Australians are head and shoulders above NZ when it comes to recognising
what their soldiers did and allowing to share. There just seems a lot more
respect.

Lest we forget.

Sarns
David
2007-11-11 07:59:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Apairateef
That's what Australian Archives are calling the availability of digitised
service records of all the WW1 personnel they have online (http://www.naa.gov.au/whats-on/online/feature-exhibits/gift.aspx). I truly
applaud them for this and really get peeved that our National Archives don't
see this type of thing as important. NZ archives have transferred the NZ
personnel records to their depositories in collaboration with NZ Defence
Forces.
The NZ records transferred are for personnel whose service ended prior to 31
December 1920 and to order online costs $25.http://www.archives.govt.nz/doingresearch/nzdfpersonnelfiles.php
I have spent many hours fascinated over the last couple of years off and on
reading the online images of records of people i don't know, I guess because
the war was so horrific and it was such a tragedy.
The Australians are head and shoulders above NZ when it comes to recognising
what their soldiers did and allowing to share. There just seems a lot more
respect.
Lest we forget.
Sarns
It seems like a whole lot of work when only a fraction of the records
will ever be uplifted. I noticed in Australia while visiting a RSL
that they take their returned service people very very seriously.

I uplifted my grand-dad's records from WWI a welcome addition to his
diaries which i transcribed myself...

There a a lot of people out there whose fathers and grandfather
twiddled their thumbs during war-time- and can have no appreciation of
what was involved.... and often those who betrayed the honour of those
who died. it is our war record which consolidated our shared
sovereignty over these
islands. it is the descendents and whanaunga of the fallen and the
returned who carry in person the honour of the nation.

When i get howled down as i rise to speak i remember the sacrifice
which was made to allow me and everyone else in fact to do this... and
i honour all who died defending this country... including Thomas Fink
who died defending his daughter from the rampages of sealers in
1820... and all those both here and overseas who died defending our
honour...

yes I stand and speak with pride...

David.

Tama tu tama ora, tama noho tama mate (kai).
Apairateef
2007-11-11 08:28:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by David
Post by Apairateef
That's what Australian Archives are calling the availability of digitised
service records of all the WW1 personnel they have online
(http://www.naa.gov.au/whats-on/online/feature-exhibits/gift.aspx). I
truly
applaud them for this and really get peeved that our National Archives don't
see this type of thing as important. NZ archives have transferred the NZ
personnel records to their depositories in collaboration with NZ Defence
Forces.
The NZ records transferred are for personnel whose service ended prior to 31
December 1920 and to order online costs
$25.http://www.archives.govt.nz/doingresearch/nzdfpersonnelfiles.php
I have spent many hours fascinated over the last couple of years off and on
reading the online images of records of people i don't know, I guess because
the war was so horrific and it was such a tragedy.
The Australians are head and shoulders above NZ when it comes to recognising
what their soldiers did and allowing to share. There just seems a lot more
respect.
Lest we forget.
Sarns
It seems like a whole lot of work when only a fraction of the records
will ever be uplifted. I noticed in Australia while visiting a RSL
that they take their returned service people very very seriously.
It's not about whether they are uplifted...it's about being able to read
what people went through and appreciate that. None of the peoples records
i'm reading are connected to me but to read what they went through, to me,
is very humbling. The letters from family and the inventoried articles that
were sent back to their loved ones when they died is also touching. So much
is gained from these records not just for relatives/descendants.
Post by David
I uplifted my grand-dad's records from WWI a welcome addition to his
diaries which i transcribed myself...
I have my great grandfathers records from the Royal Scots fusiliers
1902-1912 and my great uncles (i have both of these online) from his
Korean war enlistment and further on and i guess i just find it so
fascinating to see information that you just would not normally get if they
weren't in the military in the first place.
Post by David
There a a lot of people out there whose fathers and grandfather
twiddled their thumbs during war-time- and can have no appreciation of
what was involved.... and often those who betrayed the honour of those
who died. it is our war record which consolidated our shared
sovereignty over these
islands. it is the descendents and whanaunga of the fallen and the
returned who carry in person the honour of the nation.
Maybe some twiddled their thumbs and maybe they had good reasons to do
so....hard to tell unless we lived their life, to know the reasons. I guess
some did because it was all so foreign...they didn't know what they would be
in for..but then again many signed up because it was glorified.

My dads dad couldn't fight in WW2..he had flat feet :-) he helped in the
homeguard
Post by David
When i get howled down as i rise to speak i remember the sacrifice
which was made to allow me and everyone else in fact to do this... and
i honour all who died defending this country... including Thomas Fink
who died defending his daughter from the rampages of sealers in
1820... and all those both here and overseas who died defending our
honour...
yes I stand and speak with pride...
David.
Tama tu tama ora, tama noho tama mate (kai).
Very very cool.... you should try reading papers past section of the
national library http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast totally
totally fascinating...i've spent hundreds of hours just searching just the
chch star..and gained lots of tidbits on all my family trees that i may not
have gathered elsewhere :-)

Cheers
Sarns
David
2007-11-11 09:08:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Apairateef
Post by David
I uplifted my grand-dad's records from WWI a welcome addition to his
diaries which i transcribed myself...
I have my great grandfathers records from the Royal Scots fusiliers
1902-1912 and my great uncles (i have both of these online) from his
Korean war enlistment and further on and i guess i just find it so
fascinating to see information that you just would not normally get if they
weren't in the military in the first place.
Post by David
There a a lot of people out there whose fathers and grandfather
twiddled their thumbs during war-time- and can have no appreciation of
what was involved.... and often those who betrayed the honour of those
who died. it is our war record which consolidated our shared
sovereignty over these
islands. it is the descendents and whanaunga of the fallen and the
returned who carry in person the honour of the nation.
Maybe some twiddled their thumbs and maybe they had good reasons to do
so....hard to tell unless we lived their life, to know the reasons. I guess
some did because it was all so foreign...they didn't know what they would be
in for..but then again many signed up because it was glorified.
There are some good points here... no-one is responsible for their
forebears...
many were manpowered home to provide food and clothing- to provide
defence...
others were unable to contribute...

My father switched from the airforce to the army so he could serve
overseas...
Post by Apairateef
My dads dad couldn't fight in WW2..he had flat feet :-) he helped in the
homeguard
Post by David
When i get howled down as i rise to speak i remember the sacrifice
which was made to allow me and everyone else in fact to do this... and
i honour all who died defending this country... including Thomas Fink
who died defending his daughter from the rampages of sealers in
1820... and all those both here and overseas who died defending our
honour...
yes I stand and speak with pride...
David.
Tama tu tama ora, tama noho tama mate (kai).
Very very cool.... you should try reading papers past section of the
national libraryhttp://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspasttotally
totally fascinating...i've spent hundreds of hours just searching just the
chch star..and gained lots of tidbits on all my family trees that i may not
have gathered elsewhere :-)
Cheers
Sarns- Hide quoted text -
Yes... i searched my uncles' file- her served in the navy and was on
the Leander I think
when it was torpedoed by the Japanese. They had to seal up the damaged
areas with the
casualties intact and deal with them when they got to Auckland... waar
has very little glory
really and is very very messy...

those who did contribute did so that we might enjoy freedom and in my
book everyone
should exercise freedom in order to maintain it,,,

David.

(Who is always on the look-out for family information.... and enjoys
the challenge.)
Apairateef
2007-11-11 09:23:12 UTC
Permalink
[snip]
Post by David
Post by Apairateef
Maybe some twiddled their thumbs and maybe they had good reasons to do
so....hard to tell unless we lived their life, to know the reasons. I guess
some did because it was all so foreign...they didn't know what they would be
in for..but then again many signed up because it was glorified.
There are some good points here... no-one is responsible for their
forebears...
many were manpowered home to provide food and clothing- to provide
defence...
others were unable to contribute...
My father switched from the airforce to the army so he could serve
overseas...
Post by Apairateef
My dads dad couldn't fight in WW2..he had flat feet :-) he helped in the
homeguard
[snip]
Post by David
Post by Apairateef
Very very cool.... you should try reading papers past section of the
national
libraryhttp://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspasttotally
totally fascinating...i've spent hundreds of hours just searching just the
chch star..and gained lots of tidbits on all my family trees that i may not
have gathered elsewhere :-)
Yes... i searched my uncles' file- her served in the navy and was on
the Leander I think
when it was torpedoed by the Japanese. They had to seal up the damaged
areas with the
casualties intact and deal with them when they got to Auckland... waar
has very little glory
really and is very very messy...
those who did contribute did so that we might enjoy freedom and in my
book everyone
should exercise freedom in order to maintain it,,,
David.
(Who is always on the look-out for family information.... and enjoys
the challenge.)
:-) join the club.... actually i've been doing the family genealogy for over
30 years now...since i was 14... if anyone throws it out after i
die...THEY'RE GONNERS! Heh heh...

Days like today (Armistice Day) and ANZAC day are always heavy with emotion
for me... guess it's worse because of the length of time i've been doing
genealogy and know how important these things are to us (Genies). My G G
gran died Nov 18th 1918 aged 44 in Kaiapoi of influenza... how sucky...she
didn't have much time to celebrate.

Sarns
David
2007-11-11 16:05:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Apairateef
[snip]
Post by David
Post by Apairateef
Maybe some twiddled their thumbs and maybe they had good reasons to do
so....hard to tell unless we lived their life, to know the reasons. I guess
some did because it was all so foreign...they didn't know what they would be
in for..but then again many signed up because it was glorified.
There are some good points here... no-one is responsible for their
forebears...
many were manpowered home to provide food and clothing- to provide
defence...
others were unable to contribute...
My father switched from the airforce to the army so he could serve
overseas...
Post by Apairateef
My dads dad couldn't fight in WW2..he had flat feet :-) he helped in the
homeguard
[snip]
Post by David
Post by Apairateef
Very very cool.... you should try reading papers past section of the
national
libraryhttp://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspasttotally
totally fascinating...i've spent hundreds of hours just searching just the
chch star..and gained lots of tidbits on all my family trees that i may not
have gathered elsewhere :-)
Yes... i searched my uncles' file- her served in the navy and was on
the Leander I think
when it was torpedoed by the Japanese. They had to seal up the damaged
areas with the
casualties intact and deal with them when they got to Auckland... waar
has very little glory
really and is very very messy...
those who did contribute did so that we might enjoy freedom and in my
book everyone
should exercise freedom in order to maintain it,,,
David.
(Who is always on the look-out for family information.... and enjoys
the challenge.)
:-) join the club.... actually i've been doing the family genealogy for over
30 years now...since i was 14... if anyone throws it out after i
die...THEY'RE GONNERS! Heh heh...
Days like today (Armistice Day) and ANZAC day are always heavy with emotion
for me... guess it's worse because of the length of time i've been doing
genealogy and know how important these things are to us (Genies). My G G
gran died Nov 18th 1918 aged 44 in Kaiapoi of influenza... how sucky...she
didn't have much time to celebrate.
Sarns- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
My grandfather was in Le Quesnoy on the 11/11/18... the town had old
medieval walls
which they did not want destroyed and so NZ troops scaled the walls
with ladders...

he saw the French president arrive when the armistice was declared.

The flu came out of the war and decimated people everywhere as troops
returned...

one person to die here was the father of 16 kids.

David.
Apairateef
2007-11-12 06:48:46 UTC
Permalink
"David" <***@gmail.com> wrote in message
[snip]
Post by David
My grandfather was in Le Quesnoy on the 11/11/18... the town had old
medieval walls
which they did not want destroyed and so NZ troops scaled the walls
with ladders...
The Kiwi's were truly inspirational at Le Quesnoy.

I had a 1st cousin twice removed shot through the head at Le Cateau on 26
October 1918 he was 23. Sad ...just over 2 weeks before the armistice,
mind you they were shot after the armistice as well.
Post by David
he saw the French president arrive when the armistice was declared.
The flu came out of the war and decimated people everywhere as troops
returned...
Wonderful humanity and travellers passing things on
Post by David
one person to die here was the father of 16 kids.
Natures way of culling isn't it. Can't be nature really...it reinvents
itself.

Sarns
Apairateef
2007-11-12 07:21:25 UTC
Permalink
[snip]
Post by Apairateef
Post by David
The flu came out of the war and decimated people everywhere as troops
returned...
Wonderful humanity and travellers passing things on
Post by David
one person to die here was the father of 16 kids.
Natures way of culling isn't it. Can't be* nature really...it reinvents
itself.
*beat...dang nabbit

Sarns
Jonathan Walker
2007-11-11 08:39:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by David
yes I stand and speak with pride...
You stand and speak with pride about atrocities.

War is a hideous, evil thing. No war should be celebrated. The deeds of
those who committed acts of war should not be celebrated.

Those who died standing against those who committed acts of war should be
mourned, not celebrated.yes I stand and speak with pride...

Their loss was a wasteful tragedy. The unspeakably barbaric acts that they
suffered should be recalled with horror, not with pride.

That they were forced to commit such inhuman acts should be recalled with
regret and with sadness.

Pride does not come into it. There is nothing to be proud about going to
war. There is nothing to be proud about forcing people to go to war.
--
Jonathan Walker

"The IT industry landscape is littered with the dead
dreams of people who once trusted Microsoft."
Sue Bilstein
2007-11-11 08:46:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jonathan Walker
Post by David
yes I stand and speak with pride...
You stand and speak with pride about atrocities.
You so missed the point. David is proud to use the freedom of speech
that his forebears fought for.

<snip bloviating>
Post by Jonathan Walker
Pride does not come into it. There is nothing to be proud about going to
war. There is nothing to be proud about forcing people to go to war.
Aggressors and oppressors who force people to fight to defend
themselves should not be proud. People can be proud for fighting
bravely in self-defense or defense of others.
Jonathan Walker
2007-11-11 10:14:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sue Bilstein
Aggressors and oppressors who force people to fight to defend
themselves should not be proud. People can be proud for fighting
bravely in self-defense or defense of others.
No.

Being forced into war is something to be regretted, not viewed with pride.
--
Jonathan Walker

"The IT industry landscape is littered with the dead
dreams of people who once trusted Microsoft."
Cadae
2007-11-11 11:01:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jonathan Walker
Post by Sue Bilstein
Aggressors and oppressors who force people to fight to defend
themselves should not be proud. People can be proud for fighting
bravely in self-defense or defense of others.
No.
Being forced into war is something to be regretted, not viewed with pride.
Your claim that they were forced indicates your level of ignorance. Learn
some history before you start spouting.

PC
Jonathan Walker
2007-11-11 11:35:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cadae
Post by Jonathan Walker
Being forced into war is something to be regretted, not viewed with pride.
Your claim that they were forced indicates your level of ignorance. Learn
some history before you start spouting.
Are you suggesting that they were keen to pick up a gun and start
murdering other people?
--
Jonathan Walker

"The IT industry landscape is littered with the dead
dreams of people who once trusted Microsoft."
Cadae
2007-11-11 11:42:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jonathan Walker
Post by Cadae
Post by Jonathan Walker
Being forced into war is something to be regretted, not viewed with pride.
Your claim that they were forced indicates your level of ignorance. Learn
some history before you start spouting.
Are you suggesting that they were keen to pick up a gun and start
murdering other people?
Take up my suggestion - learn some history.

PC
Geopelia
2007-11-12 02:38:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cadae
Post by Jonathan Walker
Post by Cadae
Post by Jonathan Walker
Being forced into war is something to be regretted, not viewed with pride.
Your claim that they were forced indicates your level of ignorance. Learn
some history before you start spouting.
Are you suggesting that they were keen to pick up a gun and start
murdering other people?
Take up my suggestion - learn some history.
PC
Murder is a crime in civil law. Killing the enemy in wartime isn't murder,
it's one's duty.

The enemy aren't really considered human like us, anyway, with all the
propaganda people are fed when a war starts. I remember how many people felt
and what they said about the bombing of Hiroshima, when the news came
through.

Perhaps we think the world has grown up a bit since then. Don't you believe
it!
Get a few months into the next major war, and see what the media get folks
to believe about the enemy.
Look what is already being said about Moslems, or even about our own Maori
"terrorists". And we are not even at war.

(All right, all right, I know I'm just an old cynic.)
Jonathan Walker
2007-11-12 05:12:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Geopelia
Murder is a crime in civil law. Killing the enemy in wartime isn't murder,
it's one's duty.
Murder is murder is murder - is the willful taking of the life of another
human being.
--
Jonathan Walker

"The IT industry landscape is littered with the dead
dreams of people who once trusted Microsoft."
John Cawston
2007-11-12 06:18:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jonathan Walker
Post by Geopelia
Murder is a crime in civil law. Killing the enemy in wartime isn't murder,
it's one's duty.
Murder is murder is murder - is the willful taking of the life of another
human being.
Nope. Augustine sorted that out 1600 years ago with his "Just
War" theory. That helped Christians of the time to fulfill their
duty to the state. Today, you are entitled to your opinion and
can register as a conchie, but that may not allow you to avoid
military service.

But fundamentally, no citizen can be allowed to exercise his
(minority) conscience to the peril of the state, because the
basis of the security of the state and it's citizens rests on
their collective will to protect lives and way of life.

JC
Jonathan Walker
2007-11-12 10:21:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Cawston
Nope. Augustine sorted that out 1600 years ago with his "Just
War" theory.
There is no such a thing as a "just war" - only actions that result in
_lesser_ evil than if you did not act.
--
Jonathan Walker

"The IT industry landscape is littered with the dead
dreams of people who once trusted Microsoft."
a_l_p
2007-11-11 20:44:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sue Bilstein
Post by Jonathan Walker
Post by David
yes I stand and speak with pride...
You stand and speak with pride about atrocities.
You so missed the point. David is proud to use the freedom of speech
that his forebears fought for.
<snip bloviating>
Post by Jonathan Walker
Pride does not come into it. There is nothing to be proud about going to
war. There is nothing to be proud about forcing people to go to war.
Aggressors and oppressors who force people to fight to defend
themselves should not be proud. People can be proud for fighting
bravely in self-defense or defense of others.
See what I mean about my personal approach to killfiling, discussed recently in
another thread? I read Sue's response which, thanks to her quoting and even
more thanks to her snipping, told me everything I needed to know about the post
that thanks to the killfile _hadn't_ appeared!

A L P
Apairateef
2007-11-11 08:50:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jonathan Walker
Post by David
yes I stand and speak with pride...
You stand and speak with pride about atrocities.
War is a hideous, evil thing. No war should be celebrated. The deeds of
those who committed acts of war should not be celebrated.
Those who died standing against those who committed acts of war should be
mourned, not celebrated.yes I stand and speak with pride...
Their loss was a wasteful tragedy. The unspeakably barbaric acts that they
suffered should be recalled with horror, not with pride.
That they were forced to commit such inhuman acts should be recalled with
regret and with sadness.
Pride does not come into it. There is nothing to be proud about going to
war. There is nothing to be proud about forcing people to go to war.
Tell the old soldiers you see with tears in their eyes (not many left
now)...that you don't want to remember what they did for their country...i
think you are looking at it from a skewed perspective

Yes atrocities and tragedy...but should not be forgotten... especially for
the blunders that bad leadership caused also.

Sarns
Jonathan Walker
2007-11-11 10:16:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Apairateef
Post by Jonathan Walker
Pride does not come into it. There is nothing to be proud about going to
war. There is nothing to be proud about forcing people to go to war.
Tell the old soldiers you see with tears in their eyes (not many left
now)...that you don't want to remember what they did for their country...i
think you are looking at it from a skewed perspective
Who said it should be forgotten?

If we don't remember it how can we avoid doing the same again?
--
Jonathan Walker

"The IT industry landscape is littered with the dead
dreams of people who once trusted Microsoft."
Apairateef
2007-11-11 10:31:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jonathan Walker
Post by Apairateef
Post by Jonathan Walker
Pride does not come into it. There is nothing to be proud about going to
war. There is nothing to be proud about forcing people to go to war.
Tell the old soldiers you see with tears in their eyes (not many left
now)...that you don't want to remember what they did for their country...i
think you are looking at it from a skewed perspective
Who said it should be forgotten?
If we don't remember it how can we avoid doing the same again?
Unfortunately ...it is anyway isn't it.... and always will be.... however it
doesn't mean we should forget.

Sarns
David
2007-11-11 09:01:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jonathan Walker
Post by David
yes I stand and speak with pride...
You stand and speak with pride about atrocities.
If you are a pacifist then good on you- pacifists have their part to
play...
Post by Jonathan Walker
War is a hideous, evil thing. No war should be celebrated. The deeds of
those who committed acts of war should not be celebrated.
The Boer war was an atrocity. After WWII attempts were made to avoid
widespread conflict and the world succeeded- but localised wars still
go on...
Post by Jonathan Walker
Those who died standing against those who committed acts of war should be
mourned, not celebrated.yes I stand and speak with pride...
Their loss was a wasteful tragedy. The unspeakably barbaric acts that they
suffered should be recalled with horror, not with pride.
That they were forced to commit such inhuman acts should be recalled with
regret and with sadness.
I lost family to death and injury- before i was born...
Post by Jonathan Walker
Pride does not come into it. There is nothing to be proud about going to
war. There is nothing to be proud about forcing people to go to war.
i was forced to defend myseldf when my community was attacked by the
state-
i fought with words... and with solid argument... something i
learned...

I was condemned for doing so... by some...but to maintain peace this
has to
happen...
Post by Jonathan Walker
--
Jonathan Walker
"The IT industry landscape is littered with the dead
dreams of people who once trusted Microsoft."
'ave a good day...

david.
Jonathan Walker
2007-11-11 10:13:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by David
Post by Jonathan Walker
War is a hideous, evil thing. No war should be celebrated. The deeds of
those who committed acts of war should not be celebrated.
The Boer war was an atrocity.
All war is an atrocity.
--
Jonathan Walker

"The IT industry landscape is littered with the dead
dreams of people who once trusted Microsoft."
Geopelia
2007-11-11 10:37:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jonathan Walker
Post by David
yes I stand and speak with pride...
You stand and speak with pride about atrocities.
War is a hideous, evil thing. No war should be celebrated. The deeds of
those who committed acts of war should not be celebrated.
Those who died standing against those who committed acts of war should be
mourned, not celebrated.yes I stand and speak with pride...
Their loss was a wasteful tragedy. The unspeakably barbaric acts that they
suffered should be recalled with horror, not with pride.
That they were forced to commit such inhuman acts should be recalled with
regret and with sadness.
Pride does not come into it. There is nothing to be proud about going to
war. There is nothing to be proud about forcing people to go to war.
--
Jonathan Walker
I've known old soldiers personally from WWI, and the Boer War. They were
very decent people. They are gone now, but why insult their memory? They did
their duty.

It's a free country and if you want to be a conchie that's your choice.
Just hope by the time the next war starts you will be too old to be called
up.
Jonathan Walker
2007-11-11 10:56:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Geopelia
I've known old soldiers personally from WWI, and the Boer War. They were
very decent people. They are gone now, but why insult their memory? They
did their duty.
It's a free country and if you want to be a conchie that's your choice.
Just hope by the time the next war starts you will be too old to be
called up.
Nobody is saying that those persons who were forced into killing other
people in acts of war were not "very decent people"

However, that does not make any of their atrocities any less barbaric

War is a hideous, evil thing; and nobody should be forced to carry out
such barbarous acts. War boils down to nothing other than two persons
attempting to murder each other.
--
Jonathan Walker

"The IT industry landscape is littered with the dead
dreams of people who once trusted Microsoft."
Cadae
2007-11-11 11:14:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jonathan Walker
Post by Geopelia
I've known old soldiers personally from WWI, and the Boer War. They were
very decent people. They are gone now, but why insult their memory? They
did their duty.
It's a free country and if you want to be a conchie that's your choice.
Just hope by the time the next war starts you will be too old to be
called up.
Nobody is saying that those persons who were forced into killing other
people in acts of war were not "very decent people"
However, that does not make any of their atrocities any less barbaric
War is a hideous, evil thing; and nobody should be forced to carry out
such barbarous acts. War boils down to nothing other than two persons
attempting to murder each other.
I agreed - war is bad. But that sentiment doesn't make badies go away, nor
does it make the necessity to defend disappear. Those who defend freedom
with their lives on the line deserve all the honour, glory and respect we
can give them.


PC
Jonathan Walker
2007-11-11 11:32:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cadae
I agreed - war is bad. But that sentiment doesn't make badies go away, nor
does it make the necessity to defend disappear. Those who defend freedom
with their lives on the line deserve all the honour, glory and respect we
can give them.
No.

What they do is nothing other than what any honourable person would do.

War is not just "bad" - it is a barbaric, cruel, evil act of aggression of
one person against another.

There should be zero tolerance of warfare.
--
Jonathan Walker

"The IT industry landscape is littered with the dead
dreams of people who once trusted Microsoft."
Cadae
2007-11-11 11:59:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jonathan Walker
Post by Cadae
I agreed - war is bad. But that sentiment doesn't make badies go away, nor
does it make the necessity to defend disappear. Those who defend freedom
with their lives on the line deserve all the honour, glory and respect we
can give them.
No.
What they do is nothing other than what any honourable person would do.
Those soldiers deserve full honour and respect, regardless of whether or not
it was a duty.
Post by Jonathan Walker
War is not just "bad" - it is a barbaric, cruel, evil act of aggression of
one person against another.
There should be zero tolerance of warfare.
Sure - and don't you think it is a particularly brave and honourable thing
to defend against such aggression ?


PC
Jonathan Walker
2007-11-11 17:23:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cadae
Post by Jonathan Walker
War is not just "bad" - it is a barbaric, cruel, evil act of aggression of
one person against another.
There should be zero tolerance of warfare.
Sure - and don't you think it is a particularly brave and honourable thing
to defend against such aggression ?
Well they certainly had to be brave.

However, what they had to do - the barbarous acts they were made to commit
- were definitely not honourable.

Only a fool will talk about war using words such as glory, honour, respect.

There is no glory, or honour, in acts of murder.

War boils down to nothing other than two persons attempting to kill each
other.
--
Jonathan Walker

"The IT industry landscape is littered with the dead
dreams of people who once trusted Microsoft."
David
2007-11-12 05:46:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jonathan Walker
Post by Cadae
Post by Jonathan Walker
War is not just "bad" - it is a barbaric, cruel, evil act of aggression of
one person against another.
There should be zero tolerance of warfare.
Sure - and don't you think it is a particularly brave and honourable thing
to defend against such aggression ?
Well they certainly had to be brave.
However, what they had to do - the barbarous acts they were made to commit
- were definitely not honourable.
Only a fool will talk about war using words such as glory, honour, respect.
There is no glory, or honour, in acts of murder.
War boils down to nothing other than two persons attempting to kill each
other.
--
Jonathan Walker
"The IT industry landscape is littered with the dead
dreams of people who once trusted Microsoft."
My dad like me was a fruitgrower.... a lot of the work was
veeeeeeeeeeery boring....
one of my dad's attributes is that they would debate to help pass the
time of
day...

I am sure you are not sticking out just to pass the time of day.

Sarns threads are often interesting and engaging but by taking
a different line you do it and her a whole heap of credit...

that is the sort of thing i believe the digs were fighting for...

-D.
David
2007-11-11 16:09:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jonathan Walker
Post by Geopelia
I've known old soldiers personally from WWI, and the Boer War. They were
very decent people. They are gone now, but why insult their memory? They
did their duty.
It's a free country and if you want to be a conchie that's your choice.
Just hope by the time the next war starts you will be too old to be
called up.
Nobody is saying that those persons who were forced into killing other
people in acts of war were not "very decent people"
However, that does not make any of their atrocities any less barbaric
War is a hideous, evil thing; and nobody should be forced to carry out
such barbarous acts. War boils down to nothing other than two persons
attempting to murder each other.
--
Jonathan Walker
"The IT industry landscape is littered with the dead
dreams of people who once trusted Microsoft."
The Kaiser and George V were first cousins
the magnitude of the Great War shocked the world-

people's abilites to inflict great damage and loss of life
and increased with improved technology.

Archibald Baxter, an Otago farmer was hung up on the front
line becaue he refused to fight... if enough people on both
sides of a conflict did that there would be no war...

-David.
John Cawston
2007-11-11 18:37:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by David
Post by Jonathan Walker
Post by Geopelia
I've known old soldiers personally from WWI, and the Boer War. They were
very decent people. They are gone now, but why insult their memory? They
did their duty.
It's a free country and if you want to be a conchie that's your choice.
Just hope by the time the next war starts you will be too old to be
called up.
Nobody is saying that those persons who were forced into killing other
people in acts of war were not "very decent people"
However, that does not make any of their atrocities any less barbaric
War is a hideous, evil thing; and nobody should be forced to carry out
such barbarous acts. War boils down to nothing other than two persons
attempting to murder each other.
--
Jonathan Walker
"The IT industry landscape is littered with the dead
dreams of people who once trusted Microsoft."
The Kaiser and George V were first cousins
the magnitude of the Great War shocked the world-
people's abilites to inflict great damage and loss of life
and increased with improved technology.
Archibald Baxter, an Otago farmer was hung up on the front
line becaue he refused to fight... if enough people on both
sides of a conflict did that there would be no war...
Something which Herr Hitler was very keen on. He wanted the Brits
to stay on their side of the Channel and be friends, whilst he
enjoyed Europe.

JC
Post by David
-David.
Geopelia
2007-11-11 20:39:12 UTC
Permalink
If one side refuses to fight, the other side will win.

Which is fair enough if you don't mind living under Fascism, Communism, or a
foreign culture or religion.
Fortitudo Dei
2007-11-11 21:22:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Apairateef
The Australians are head and shoulders above NZ when it comes to recognising
what their soldiers did and allowing to share. There just seems a lot more
respect.
Lest we forget.
On a recent trip to Sydney I noticed the number of things named
"ANZAC". There was the massive (and very impressive) ANZAC Bridge,
ANZAC House in the CBD, the ANZAC Memorial in Hyde Park to name but
three. There seemed to be the recognition that the ANZAC legend
involved TWO countries - something that we seem to have almost
forgotten here. Each of these sites was topped with two large flags
with equal status - Australian AND New Zealand. The huge (and I mean
HUGE) NZ flag flying from one of the two peaks of the ANZAC bridge
made me so proud.

Loading Image...

So where are the Australian flags on our notable sites named for the
ANZACS or on ANZAC day?
Apairateef
2007-11-12 07:12:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fortitudo Dei
Post by Apairateef
The Australians are head and shoulders above NZ when it comes to recognising
what their soldiers did and allowing to share. There just seems a lot more
respect.
Lest we forget.
On a recent trip to Sydney I noticed the number of things named
"ANZAC". There was the massive (and very impressive) ANZAC Bridge,
ANZAC House in the CBD, the ANZAC Memorial in Hyde Park to name but
three. There seemed to be the recognition that the ANZAC legend
involved TWO countries - something that we seem to have almost
forgotten here. Each of these sites was topped with two large flags
with equal status - Australian AND New Zealand. The huge (and I mean
HUGE) NZ flag flying from one of the two peaks of the ANZAC bridge
made me so proud.
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Anzac_Bridge_5.jpg
That is so awesome..thanks for sharing that i've not seen it before and I
agree..it does make one feel proud.
Post by Fortitudo Dei
So where are the Australian flags on our notable sites named for the
ANZACS or on ANZAC day?
Christchurch opened a new ringroad in 2000 within the New
Brighton/Wainoni/Burwood area named Anzac drive, that is near QE2 park and
at one end has giant metal poppies beside it...it's very cool. No flags
tho.
Loading Image...&Description=Photo+of+Poppies+and+the+Artistists+with+Lianne+Dalziell+who+spoke+at+the+unveiling
http://archived.ccc.govt.nz/MediaReleases/2000/August/ANZACDriveOpenedByFormerSoldier.asp

sorry about the huge url LOL!

Sarns
Brian Dooley
2007-11-12 09:27:20 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 11 Nov 2007 13:22:02 -0800, Fortitudo Dei
Post by Fortitudo Dei
Post by Apairateef
The Australians are head and shoulders above NZ when it comes to recognising
what their soldiers did and allowing to share. There just seems a lot more
respect.
Lest we forget.
On a recent trip to Sydney I noticed the number of things named
"ANZAC". There was the massive (and very impressive) ANZAC Bridge,
ANZAC House in the CBD, the ANZAC Memorial in Hyde Park to name but
three. There seemed to be the recognition that the ANZAC legend
involved TWO countries - something that we seem to have almost
forgotten here. Each of these sites was topped with two large flags
with equal status - Australian AND New Zealand. The huge (and I mean
HUGE) NZ flag flying from one of the two peaks of the ANZAC bridge
made me so proud.
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Anzac_Bridge_5.jpg
So where are the Australian flags on our notable sites named for the
ANZACS or on ANZAC day?
The ANZAC Bridge hasn't always been called that - it was renamed.

It was a cause of puzzlement to many (most) Ockers when the NZ
flag went up there because their knowledge of Gallipoli is based
on the movie of that name, which iirc doesn't acknowledge any
participants other than Mel Gibson, including NZ.

It is an undoubted fact that many Australians have no idea about
NZ at Gallipoli.
--
Brian Dooley

Wellington New Zealand
bustabraincell
2007-11-13 06:22:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brian Dooley
On Sun, 11 Nov 2007 13:22:02 -0800, Fortitudo Dei
Post by Fortitudo Dei
Post by Apairateef
The Australians are head and shoulders above NZ when it comes to recognising
what their soldiers did and allowing to share. There just seems a lot more
respect.
Lest we forget.
On a recent trip to Sydney I noticed the number of things named
"ANZAC". There was the massive (and very impressive) ANZAC Bridge,
ANZAC House in the CBD, the ANZAC Memorial in Hyde Park to name but
three. There seemed to be the recognition that the ANZAC legend
involved TWO countries - something that we seem to have almost
forgotten here. Each of these sites was topped with two large flags
with equal status - Australian AND New Zealand. The huge (and I mean
HUGE) NZ flag flying from one of the two peaks of the ANZAC bridge
made me so proud.
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Anzac_Bridge_5.jpg
So where are the Australian flags on our notable sites named for the
ANZACS or on ANZAC day?
The ANZAC Bridge hasn't always been called that - it was renamed.
It was a cause of puzzlement to many (most) Ockers when the NZ
flag went up there because their knowledge of Gallipoli is based
on the movie of that name, which iirc doesn't acknowledge any
participants other than Mel Gibson, including NZ.
It is an undoubted fact that many Australians have no idea about
NZ at Gallipoli.
--
Brian Dooley
Wellington New Zealand
that is your shit opinion , Brian, based on ignorance and small
mindedness, and I suspect, envy. Dickhead
Brian Dooley
2007-11-14 08:02:44 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 13 Nov 2007 06:22:56 -0000, bustabraincell
Post by bustabraincell
Post by Brian Dooley
On Sun, 11 Nov 2007 13:22:02 -0800, Fortitudo Dei
Post by Fortitudo Dei
Post by Apairateef
The Australians are head and shoulders above NZ when it comes to recognising
what their soldiers did and allowing to share. There just seems a lot more
respect.
Lest we forget.
On a recent trip to Sydney I noticed the number of things named
"ANZAC". There was the massive (and very impressive) ANZAC Bridge,
ANZAC House in the CBD, the ANZAC Memorial in Hyde Park to name but
three. There seemed to be the recognition that the ANZAC legend
involved TWO countries - something that we seem to have almost
forgotten here. Each of these sites was topped with two large flags
with equal status - Australian AND New Zealand. The huge (and I mean
HUGE) NZ flag flying from one of the two peaks of the ANZAC bridge
made me so proud.
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Anzac_Bridge_5.jpg
So where are the Australian flags on our notable sites named for the
ANZACS or on ANZAC day?
The ANZAC Bridge hasn't always been called that - it was renamed.
It was a cause of puzzlement to many (most) Ockers when the NZ
flag went up there because their knowledge of Gallipoli is based
on the movie of that name, which iirc doesn't acknowledge any
participants other than Mel Gibson, including NZ.
It is an undoubted fact that many Australians have no idea about
NZ at Gallipoli.
that is your shit opinion , Brian, based on ignorance and small
mindedness, and I suspect, envy. Dickhead
Based on a fair amount of reading, and a report on that very
subject some years ago: backed up by the fact that the wife of an
Ocker diplomat, living across the road from me, had to be told
that the guns on Anzac Day were banging off in memory of the NZ
fallen at Gallipoli. Nobody had ever told her that before, and I
thought that if a woman in her position didn't know then who else
in Oz didn't know.

In the meantime I refer you to 'Digger History':
http://www.diggerhistory.info/pages-battles/ww1/anzac/gallipoli-facts.htm#Top
The last paragraphs of which are:

Distorted propaganda is usually at its height during wars but
corrected in later years. In the case of Gallipoli the opposite
occurred. The official Australian war historian, Charles Bean,
was reluctant to hint that Australians were ever less than
heroic, and in the interests of maintaining good relationships
with Australia, Cecil Aspinall-Oglander, the official British war
historian, toned down even implied criticisms of any Australian
action. As Rhodes James observed, the result of massaging the
truth was an 'Australian mythology that Gallipoli was an
Australian triumph thrown away by incompetent British
commanders'.

Far worse distortions disfigure the Peter Weir film Gallipoli,
which seeks to contrast cowardly and idle British troops with
ANZAC heroes. Some British troops did bathe and drink tea at
Suvla Bay whilst horrific fighting was taking place a few miles
to the south, but others were as fully engaged in that conflict
as New Zealanders and Australians.

Rhodes James noted that the 'suicidal assault' of the Australian
Light Horse at The Nek on 7 August 1915 'had nothing to do with
the British landing at Suvla, but was intended to help the New
Zealanders, as the film's military advisers knew'.

However, 'the principal Australian sponsor of the film (Rupert
Murdoch) wanted an anti-British ending, and got it', with 'the
deliberately inaccurate final scenes' of the film, a potent
source of Australian republican sentiments.

Few Australians realise that 'the British, French and Indian
causalities were far greater than those of the Anzacs, and that
the British bore the brunt of the fighting - and the losses.'

Far from covering up British errors, British historians exposed
them at every level, from Kitchener, Churchill, Fisher and
Hamilton down. The indecisiveness of the naval commanders , the
muddle at Imbros, the incapacity of Sir Frederick Stopford, and
every other British failing, were laid bare to the world. This is
as it should be, if anyone is to benefit from past errors, but in
2001 British people, no more or less than Australians and New
Zealanders, can take pride in heroic deeds at Gallipoli, as
indeed can French, Indian, Pakistani and Bangladeshi people. We
should not allow latter-day propagandists to sow seeds of
unwarranted resentment between peoples whose ancestors fought
with great courage in a common cause.
EOQ

What it doesn't say is that my mother's eldest brother, Drummer
William Shaw, of the 9th Battalion the Manchester Regiment,
survived Gallipoli and lived to take to his bayonet between the
lines on the Somme some time later.

"Ignorance and small mindedness, and [you] suspect, envy."

Of what?

Dickhead

And you, sweetheart.
--
Brian Dooley

Wellington New Zealand
Peter Metcalfe
2007-11-14 08:37:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brian Dooley
Ocker diplomat
Surely a contradiction in terms?

--Peter Metcalfe
a_l_p
2007-11-14 10:52:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brian Dooley
On Tue, 13 Nov 2007 06:22:56 -0000, bustabraincell
Post by bustabraincell
Post by Brian Dooley
It was a cause of puzzlement to many (most) Ockers when the NZ
flag went up there because their knowledge of Gallipoli is based
on the movie of that name, which iirc doesn't acknowledge any
participants other than Mel Gibson, including NZ.
It is an undoubted fact that many Australians have no idea about
NZ at Gallipoli.
that is your shit opinion , Brian, based on ignorance and small
mindedness, and I suspect, envy. Dickhead
Based on a fair amount of reading, and a report on that very
subject some years ago: backed up by the fact that the wife of an
Ocker diplomat, living across the road from me, had to be told
that the guns on Anzac Day were banging off in memory of the NZ
fallen at Gallipoli. Nobody had ever told her that before, and I
thought that if a woman in her position didn't know then who else
in Oz didn't know.
http://www.diggerhistory.info/pages-battles/ww1/anzac/gallipoli-facts.htm#Top
Distorted propaganda is usually at its height during wars but
corrected in later years. In the case of Gallipoli the opposite
occurred. The official Australian war historian, Charles Bean,
was reluctant to hint that Australians were ever less than
heroic, and in the interests of maintaining good relationships
with Australia, Cecil Aspinall-Oglander, the official British war
historian, toned down even implied criticisms of any Australian
action. As Rhodes James observed, the result of massaging the
truth was an 'Australian mythology that Gallipoli was an
Australian triumph thrown away by incompetent British
commanders'.
Far worse distortions disfigure the Peter Weir film Gallipoli,
which seeks to contrast cowardly and idle British troops with
ANZAC heroes. Some British troops did bathe and drink tea at
Suvla Bay whilst horrific fighting was taking place a few miles
to the south, but others were as fully engaged in that conflict
as New Zealanders and Australians.
Rhodes James noted that the 'suicidal assault' of the Australian
Light Horse at The Nek on 7 August 1915 'had nothing to do with
the British landing at Suvla, but was intended to help the New
Zealanders, as the film's military advisers knew'.
However, 'the principal Australian sponsor of the film (Rupert
Murdoch) wanted an anti-British ending, and got it', with 'the
deliberately inaccurate final scenes' of the film, a potent
source of Australian republican sentiments.
Few Australians realise that 'the British, French and Indian
causalities were far greater than those of the Anzacs, and that
the British bore the brunt of the fighting - and the losses.'
Far from covering up British errors, British historians exposed
them at every level, from Kitchener, Churchill, Fisher and
Hamilton down. The indecisiveness of the naval commanders , the
muddle at Imbros, the incapacity of Sir Frederick Stopford, and
every other British failing, were laid bare to the world. This is
as it should be, if anyone is to benefit from past errors, but in
2001 British people, no more or less than Australians and New
Zealanders, can take pride in heroic deeds at Gallipoli, as
indeed can French, Indian, Pakistani and Bangladeshi people. We
should not allow latter-day propagandists to sow seeds of
unwarranted resentment between peoples whose ancestors fought
with great courage in a common cause.
EOQ
What it doesn't say is that my mother's eldest brother, Drummer
William Shaw, of the 9th Battalion the Manchester Regiment,
survived Gallipoli and lived to take to his bayonet between the
lines on the Somme some time later.
"Ignorance and small mindedness, and [you] suspect, envy."
Of what?
Dickhead
And you, sweetheart.
Standing ovation, Brian!

A L P
Brian Dooley
2007-11-15 23:18:11 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 23:52:54 +1300, a_l_p
Post by a_l_p
Post by Brian Dooley
On Tue, 13 Nov 2007 06:22:56 -0000, bustabraincell
Post by bustabraincell
Post by Brian Dooley
It was a cause of puzzlement to many (most) Ockers when the NZ
flag went up there because their knowledge of Gallipoli is based
on the movie of that name, which iirc doesn't acknowledge any
participants other than Mel Gibson, including NZ.
It is an undoubted fact that many Australians have no idea about
NZ at Gallipoli.
that is your shit opinion , Brian, based on ignorance and small
mindedness, and I suspect, envy. Dickhead
Based on a fair amount of reading, and a report on that very
subject some years ago: backed up by the fact that the wife of an
Ocker diplomat, living across the road from me, had to be told
that the guns on Anzac Day were banging off in memory of the NZ
fallen at Gallipoli. Nobody had ever told her that before, and I
thought that if a woman in her position didn't know then who else
in Oz didn't know.
http://www.diggerhistory.info/pages-battles/ww1/anzac/gallipoli-facts.htm#Top
Distorted propaganda is usually at its height during wars but
corrected in later years. In the case of Gallipoli the opposite
occurred. The official Australian war historian, Charles Bean,
was reluctant to hint that Australians were ever less than
heroic, and in the interests of maintaining good relationships
with Australia, Cecil Aspinall-Oglander, the official British war
historian, toned down even implied criticisms of any Australian
action. As Rhodes James observed, the result of massaging the
truth was an 'Australian mythology that Gallipoli was an
Australian triumph thrown away by incompetent British
commanders'.
Far worse distortions disfigure the Peter Weir film Gallipoli,
which seeks to contrast cowardly and idle British troops with
ANZAC heroes. Some British troops did bathe and drink tea at
Suvla Bay whilst horrific fighting was taking place a few miles
to the south, but others were as fully engaged in that conflict
as New Zealanders and Australians.
Rhodes James noted that the 'suicidal assault' of the Australian
Light Horse at The Nek on 7 August 1915 'had nothing to do with
the British landing at Suvla, but was intended to help the New
Zealanders, as the film's military advisers knew'.
However, 'the principal Australian sponsor of the film (Rupert
Murdoch) wanted an anti-British ending, and got it', with 'the
deliberately inaccurate final scenes' of the film, a potent
source of Australian republican sentiments.
Few Australians realise that 'the British, French and Indian
causalities were far greater than those of the Anzacs, and that
the British bore the brunt of the fighting - and the losses.'
Far from covering up British errors, British historians exposed
them at every level, from Kitchener, Churchill, Fisher and
Hamilton down. The indecisiveness of the naval commanders , the
muddle at Imbros, the incapacity of Sir Frederick Stopford, and
every other British failing, were laid bare to the world. This is
as it should be, if anyone is to benefit from past errors, but in
2001 British people, no more or less than Australians and New
Zealanders, can take pride in heroic deeds at Gallipoli, as
indeed can French, Indian, Pakistani and Bangladeshi people. We
should not allow latter-day propagandists to sow seeds of
unwarranted resentment between peoples whose ancestors fought
with great courage in a common cause.
EOQ
What it doesn't say is that my mother's eldest brother, Drummer
William Shaw, of the 9th Battalion the Manchester Regiment,
survived Gallipoli and lived to take to his bayonet between the
lines on the Somme some time later.
"Ignorance and small mindedness, and [you] suspect, envy."
Of what?
Dickhead
And you, sweetheart.
Standing ovation, Brian!
Too kind - what lovely flowers.
--
Brian Dooley

Wellington New Zealand
Robert Howard
2007-11-16 06:46:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brian Dooley
On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 23:52:54 +1300, a_l_p
Post by Brian Dooley
On Tue, 13 Nov 2007 06:22:56 -0000, bustabraincell
Post by Brian Dooley
It was a cause of puzzlement to many (most) Ockers when the NZ
flag went up there because their knowledge of Gallipoli is based
on the movie of that name, which iirc doesn't acknowledge any
participants other than Mel Gibson, including NZ.
It is an undoubted fact that many Australians have no idea about
NZ at Gallipoli.
When I was young living in Australia I learned about the Australian New
Zealand Army Corp. I knew this country was involved. Mind you little detail
was conveyed. Australians are very insular and very ignorant about New
Zealand. They are strongly inward looking. For instance in spite of the
number of English people in the population the media won't broadcast
European soccer results. Australians don't play soccer so that is that. I
was in Queensland when a small tornado went through Greymouth removing a few
roofs. It was reported on the news by saying a tornado hit Greym'th. I would
have liked to have rung them and told them to learn how to pronounce New
Zealand names.



Bob Howard.
Brian Dooley
2007-11-16 18:50:22 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 16 Nov 2007 19:46:49 +1300, "Robert Howard"
Post by Robert Howard
Post by Brian Dooley
On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 23:52:54 +1300, a_l_p
Post by Brian Dooley
On Tue, 13 Nov 2007 06:22:56 -0000, bustabraincell
Post by Brian Dooley
It was a cause of puzzlement to many (most) Ockers when the NZ
flag went up there because their knowledge of Gallipoli is based
on the movie of that name, which iirc doesn't acknowledge any
participants other than Mel Gibson, including NZ.
It is an undoubted fact that many Australians have no idea about
NZ at Gallipoli.
When I was young living in Australia I learned about the Australian New
Zealand Army Corp. I knew this country was involved. Mind you little detail
was conveyed. Australians are very insular and very ignorant about New
Zealand.
As I said.
Post by Robert Howard
They are strongly inward looking. For instance in spite of the
number of English people in the population the media won't broadcast
European soccer results. Australians don't play soccer so that is that.
They do now.
Post by Robert Howard
I
was in Queensland when a small tornado went through Greymouth removing a few
roofs. It was reported on the news by saying a tornado hit Greym'th. I would
have liked to have rung them and told them to learn how to pronounce New
Zealand names.
Fair's fair, Bob. How do you pronounce 'Wakatipu'
--
Brian Dooley

Wellington New Zealand
Patrick FitzGerald
2007-11-16 20:25:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert Howard
. Australians are very insular and very ignorant about New
Zealand.
True Ozzy Robby

If your posts are an indicator you and your fellows are abysmally
ignorant


Patrick
a_l_p
2007-11-11 20:54:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by David
When i get howled down as i rise to speak i remember the sacrifice
which was made to allow me and everyone else in fact to do this... and
i honour all who died defending this country... including Thomas Fink
who died defending his daughter from the rampages of sealers in
1820... and all those both here and overseas who died defending our
honour...
yes I stand and speak with pride...
Yes, the right to speak out and stand up for our beliefs and our and other
people's rights in peacetime is precious. Use it or lose it, too. When I feel
can't-be-bothered about something that really strikes me as wrong to humans or
animals or to our land I remember my own forebears and the courage of some of my
own friends now departed, and give myself an extra push. Still not enough
energy, too often, but how limp would I be without those people's strength to
inspire me I wonder!

A L P
Apairateef
2007-11-12 07:03:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by a_l_p
Post by David
When i get howled down as i rise to speak i remember the sacrifice
which was made to allow me and everyone else in fact to do this... and
i honour all who died defending this country... including Thomas Fink
who died defending his daughter from the rampages of sealers in
1820... and all those both here and overseas who died defending our
honour...
yes I stand and speak with pride...
Yes, the right to speak out and stand up for our beliefs and our and other
people's rights in peacetime is precious. Use it or lose it, too. When I
feel can't-be-bothered about something that really strikes me as wrong to
humans or animals or to our land I remember my own forebears and the
courage of some of my own friends now departed, and give myself an extra
push. Still not enough energy, too often, but how limp would I be without
those people's strength to inspire me I wonder!
That Alpers is the exact reason i love genealogy.... damn we are so lucky in
this day and age really and gathering the stories of those ancestors from
the past...makes me appreciate even more what i have got and the chances i
have in life.

Sarns
a_l_p
2007-11-12 22:39:47 UTC
Permalink
I've got a friend who is just rather belatedly realising that his mother's
family is pretty much a mystery, immigrants, only relative a brother (in NZ
anyway) who died childless. Could I possibly give him your addie to shortcut
his search process? When in Germany some years ago he looked in every phone
book, every place they stopped, for the name, didn't find it. Different
spelling perhaps when - oh, long story regarding the man who left his home in
the first place....... and where he was, and then where he went... and so on
till arrival in NZ.

A L P as above with _ between lower case letters and then (don't tell me you
guessed) at ihug.
Post by Apairateef
That Alpers is the exact reason i love genealogy.... damn we are so lucky in
this day and age really and gathering the stories of those ancestors from
the past...makes me appreciate even more what i have got and the chances i
have in life.
Sarns
Apairateef
2007-11-13 04:44:59 UTC
Permalink
Well i don't know if i can help much...Germany is a bit of a complex one
cos boundaries changed over the years also, however they are welcome to
contact me off my website... www.sarndra.com and i can try to give them some
pointers. Just 2 years ago i managed to reunite my sister in law with her
german LIVING cousins (her father was born 1908 in Germany and died 1986 NZ)
and it was really satisfying :-) her and my brother have now visited the
relatives in the tiny village where her father was born and raised.

Familiarising oneself with what is available on the net is a good start. I'm
lucky because i started when all the leg work had to be done and not by
fingers on a keyboard so i've grown with the net popularity as it has
grown. Don't be fooled into all the pay for information sites though, they
are not always necessary.

Sarns
Post by a_l_p
I've got a friend who is just rather belatedly realising that his mother's
family is pretty much a mystery, immigrants, only relative a brother (in
NZ anyway) who died childless. Could I possibly give him your addie to
shortcut his search process? When in Germany some years ago he looked in
every phone book, every place they stopped, for the name, didn't find it.
Different spelling perhaps when - oh, long story regarding the man who
left his home in the first place....... and where he was, and then where
he went... and so on till arrival in NZ.
A L P as above with _ between lower case letters and then (don't tell me
you guessed) at ihug.
Post by Apairateef
That Alpers is the exact reason i love genealogy.... damn we are so lucky
in this day and age really and gathering the stories of those ancestors
from the past...makes me appreciate even more what i have got and the
chances i have in life.
Sarns
a_l_p
2007-11-13 07:41:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Apairateef
Well i don't know if i can help much...Germany is a bit of a complex one
cos boundaries changed over the years also, however they are welcome to
contact me off my website... www.sarndra.com and i can try to give them some
pointers. Just 2 years ago i managed to reunite my sister in law with her
german LIVING cousins (her father was born 1908 in Germany and died 1986 NZ)
and it was really satisfying :-) her and my brother have now visited the
relatives in the tiny village where her father was born and raised.
Familiarising oneself with what is available on the net is a good start. I'm
lucky because i started when all the leg work had to be done and not by
fingers on a keyboard so i've grown with the net popularity as it has
grown. Don't be fooled into all the pay for information sites though, they
are not always necessary.
Sarns
Ta muchly. I'll print your post off and give it to him, then he can follow up
or not as he wishes. He's got a fair number of irons in the fire so I don't
know when he's going to have time to do much research, but no doubt once you
start making the first bit of progress it gets compulsive!

A L P
Apairateef
2007-11-14 09:00:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by a_l_p
Post by Apairateef
Well i don't know if i can help much...Germany is a bit of a complex one
cos boundaries changed over the years also, however they are welcome to
contact me off my website... www.sarndra.com and i can try to give them
some pointers. Just 2 years ago i managed to reunite my sister in law
with her german LIVING cousins (her father was born 1908 in Germany and
died 1986 NZ) and it was really satisfying :-) her and my brother have
now visited the relatives in the tiny village where her father was born
and raised.
Familiarising oneself with what is available on the net is a good start.
I'm lucky because i started when all the leg work had to be done and not
by fingers on a keyboard so i've grown with the net popularity as it has
grown. Don't be fooled into all the pay for information sites though,
they are not always necessary.
Sarns
Ta muchly. I'll print your post off and give it to him, then he can
follow up or not as he wishes. He's got a fair number of irons in the
fire so I don't know when he's going to have time to do much research, but
no doubt once you start making the first bit of progress it gets
compulsive!
No problems alps.. yep it's something your either love or hate.... there is
no inbetween :-)

Cheers
a_l_p
2007-11-14 11:11:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Apairateef
Post by a_l_p
Post by Apairateef
Well i don't know if i can help much...Germany is a bit of a complex one
cos boundaries changed over the years also, however they are welcome to
contact me off my website... www.sarndra.com and i can try to give them
some pointers. Just 2 years ago i managed to reunite my sister in law
with her german LIVING cousins (her father was born 1908 in Germany and
died 1986 NZ) and it was really satisfying :-) her and my brother have
now visited the relatives in the tiny village where her father was born
and raised.
Familiarising oneself with what is available on the net is a good start.
I'm lucky because i started when all the leg work had to be done and not
by fingers on a keyboard so i've grown with the net popularity as it
has grown. Don't be fooled into all the pay for information sites
though, they are not always necessary.
Sarns
Ta muchly. I'll print your post off and give it to him, then he can follow
up or not as he wishes. He's got a fair number of irons in the fire so I
don't know when he's going to have time to do much research, but no doubt
once you start making the first bit of progress it gets compulsive!
No problems alps.. yep it's something your either love or hate.... there is
no inbetween :-)
I dropped it off to him this afternoon - oops, yesterday afternoon it is now! He
was pleased to get it and I'll be surprised if he doesn't at least try now and
then to make headway with his enquiries. And one day I'm sure he'll get the
lead he's looking for.

A L P
Apairateef
2007-11-16 22:08:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by a_l_p
Post by Apairateef
Post by a_l_p
Post by Apairateef
Well i don't know if i can help much...Germany is a bit of a complex one
cos boundaries changed over the years also, however they are welcome to
contact me off my website... www.sarndra.com and i can try to give them
some pointers. Just 2 years ago i managed to reunite my sister in law
with her german LIVING cousins (her father was born 1908 in Germany and
died 1986 NZ) and it was really satisfying :-) her and my brother have
now visited the relatives in the tiny village where her father was born
and raised.
Familiarising oneself with what is available on the net is a good start.
I'm lucky because i started when all the leg work had to be done and not
by fingers on a keyboard so i've grown with the net popularity as it
has grown. Don't be fooled into all the pay for information sites
though, they are not always necessary.
Sarns
Ta muchly. I'll print your post off and give it to him, then he can follow
up or not as he wishes. He's got a fair number of irons in the fire so I
don't know when he's going to have time to do much research, but no doubt
once you start making the first bit of progress it gets compulsive!
No problems alps.. yep it's something your either love or hate.... there
is no inbetween :-)
I dropped it off to him this afternoon - oops, yesterday afternoon it is now! He
was pleased to get it and I'll be surprised if he doesn't at least try now and
then to make headway with his enquiries. And one day I'm sure he'll get
the lead he's looking for.
A L P
Apairateef
2007-11-16 22:08:58 UTC
Permalink
[snip]
Post by a_l_p
Post by Apairateef
No problems alps.. yep it's something your either love or hate.... there
is no inbetween :-)
I dropped it off to him this afternoon - oops, yesterday afternoon it is now! He
was pleased to get it and I'll be surprised if he doesn't at least try now and
then to make headway with his enquiries. And one day I'm sure he'll get
the lead he's looking for.
Choice Alps, i'll keep my eyes peeled :-)

Sarns

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