Discussion:
Disgraceful
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Tony
2020-02-06 04:14:51 UTC
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Permalink
https://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/tv-radio/119320084/rnz-proposal-to-dial-down-concert-a-slap-in-the-face
There are dozens of stations that cater for young people as there should be.
Classical music is soul food.
Crash
2020-02-06 04:25:48 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Wed, 05 Feb 2020 22:14:51 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
https://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/tv-radio/119320084/rnz-proposal-to-dial-down-concert-a-slap-in-the-face
There are dozens of stations that cater for young people as there should be.
Classical music is soul food.
Completely missing from that article is what problem is that the
proposal is a solution to.


--
Crash McBash
Gordon
2020-02-06 04:33:46 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Crash
On Wed, 05 Feb 2020 22:14:51 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
https://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/tv-radio/119320084/rnz-proposal-to-dial-down-concert-a-slap-in-the-face
There are dozens of stations that cater for young people as there should be.
Classical music is soul food.
Completely missing from that article is what problem is that the
proposal is a solution to.
Costs too much.
Why should we (the Government) pay all this money to influence so few
voters.
We need to re-brand
Market forces are Governing.

Talking about culture, in the neoliberal one, is sort of stupid, at best.
Tony
2020-02-06 05:58:11 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Crash
On Wed, 05 Feb 2020 22:14:51 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
https://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/tv-radio/119320084/rnz-proposal-to-dial-down-concert-a-slap-in-the-face
There are dozens of stations that cater for young people as there should be.
Classical music is soul food.
Completely missing from that article is what problem is that the
proposal is a solution to.
Yes indeed.
Rich80105
2020-02-06 08:03:38 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Wed, 05 Feb 2020 23:58:11 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Crash
On Wed, 05 Feb 2020 22:14:51 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
https://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/tv-radio/119320084/rnz-proposal-to-dial-down-concert-a-slap-in-the-face
There are dozens of stations that cater for young people as there should be.
Classical music is soul food.
Completely missing from that article is what problem is that the
proposal is a solution to.
Yes indeed.
Almost certainly money. Do you care enough to pay slightly higher
taxes to keep it?
Crash
2020-02-06 08:47:41 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 05 Feb 2020 23:58:11 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Crash
On Wed, 05 Feb 2020 22:14:51 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
https://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/tv-radio/119320084/rnz-proposal-to-dial-down-concert-a-slap-in-the-face
There are dozens of stations that cater for young people as there should be.
Classical music is soul food.
Completely missing from that article is what problem is that the
proposal is a solution to.
Yes indeed.
Almost certainly money. Do you care enough to pay slightly higher
taxes to keep it?
Nothing about money in the article and I would have thought it would
have been mentioned if it was. As things stand, the proposed actions
are a solution in search of a problem.


--
Crash McBash
Rich80105
2020-02-06 18:46:00 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 05 Feb 2020 23:58:11 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Crash
On Wed, 05 Feb 2020 22:14:51 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
https://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/tv-radio/119320084/rnz-proposal-to-dial-down-concert-a-slap-in-the-face
There are dozens of stations that cater for young people as there should be.
Classical music is soul food.
Completely missing from that article is what problem is that the
proposal is a solution to.
Yes indeed.
Almost certainly money. Do you care enough to pay slightly higher
taxes to keep it?
Nothing about money in the article
Perhaps that is why the previous poster said "Completely missing from
that article is what problem is that the proposal is a solution to." -
and we had nine years where the only important priorities were
subsidies to business or tax cuts - the question is whether that went
too far if budget concerns are now hitting what somebelieve to be a
cultural icon.
Post by Crash
and I would have thought it would
have been mentioned if it was. As things stand, the proposed actions
are a solution in search of a problem.
It is not uncommon these days for reporters to merely report what they
are given' there are very few quality journalists; in our money is
everything neo-liberal world, the lowest denominator makes the most
money - if you want real journalism you mnay need to pay for it . . .
Tony
2020-02-06 19:40:40 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 05 Feb 2020 23:58:11 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Crash
On Wed, 05 Feb 2020 22:14:51 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
https://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/tv-radio/119320084/rnz-proposal-to-dial-down-concert-a-slap-in-the-face
There are dozens of stations that cater for young people as there should be.
Classical music is soul food.
Completely missing from that article is what problem is that the
proposal is a solution to.
Yes indeed.
Almost certainly money. Do you care enough to pay slightly higher
taxes to keep it?
Nothing about money in the article
Perhaps that is why the previous poster said "Completely missing from
that article is what problem is that the proposal is a solution to." -
and we had nine years where the only important priorities were
subsidies to business or tax cuts - the question is whether that went
too far if budget concerns are now hitting what somebelieve to be a
cultural icon.
You are in fact replying to the "previous poster" and you have added nothing to
this. The previous Labour PM and Dame Kiri are both upset by this silliness.
I doubt it has anything to do with money and it certainly was not caused by the
previous government - that is hogwash.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Crash
and I would have thought it would
have been mentioned if it was. As things stand, the proposed actions
are a solution in search of a problem.
It is not uncommon these days for reporters to merely report what they
are given' there are very few quality journalists; in our money is
everything neo-liberal world, the lowest denominator makes the most
money - if you want real journalism you mnay need to pay for it . . .
Entirely off topic.
Crash
2020-02-06 21:20:59 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Thu, 06 Feb 2020 13:40:40 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 05 Feb 2020 23:58:11 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Crash
On Wed, 05 Feb 2020 22:14:51 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
https://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/tv-radio/119320084/rnz-proposal-to-dial-down-concert-a-slap-in-the-face
There are dozens of stations that cater for young people as there should be.
Classical music is soul food.
Completely missing from that article is what problem is that the
proposal is a solution to.
Yes indeed.
Almost certainly money. Do you care enough to pay slightly higher
taxes to keep it?
Nothing about money in the article
Perhaps that is why the previous poster said "Completely missing from
that article is what problem is that the proposal is a solution to." -
and we had nine years where the only important priorities were
subsidies to business or tax cuts - the question is whether that went
too far if budget concerns are now hitting what somebelieve to be a
cultural icon.
You are in fact replying to the "previous poster" and you have added nothing to
this. The previous Labour PM and Dame Kiri are both upset by this silliness.
I doubt it has anything to do with money and it certainly was not caused by the
previous government - that is hogwash.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Crash
and I would have thought it would
have been mentioned if it was. As things stand, the proposed actions
are a solution in search of a problem.
It is not uncommon these days for reporters to merely report what they
are given' there are very few quality journalists; in our money is
everything neo-liberal world, the lowest denominator makes the most
money - if you want real journalism you mnay need to pay for it . . .
Entirely off topic.
Correct. For the benefit of Rich: the topic (in the article Tony
cited in the OP) is proposed changes to the RNZ Concert Program that
see it broadcast only on AM and internet streaming in order to allow a
new youth-focused program (derogatorily called 'Spotify-on-air) to be
introduced.


--
Crash McBash
Rich80105
2020-02-07 00:25:52 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Crash
On Thu, 06 Feb 2020 13:40:40 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 05 Feb 2020 23:58:11 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Crash
On Wed, 05 Feb 2020 22:14:51 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
https://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/tv-radio/119320084/rnz-proposal-to-dial-down-concert-a-slap-in-the-face
There are dozens of stations that cater for young people as there should be.
Classical music is soul food.
Completely missing from that article is what problem is that the
proposal is a solution to.
Yes indeed.
Almost certainly money. Do you care enough to pay slightly higher
taxes to keep it?
Nothing about money in the article
Perhaps that is why the previous poster said "Completely missing from
that article is what problem is that the proposal is a solution to." -
and we had nine years where the only important priorities were
subsidies to business or tax cuts - the question is whether that went
too far if budget concerns are now hitting what somebelieve to be a
cultural icon.
You are in fact replying to the "previous poster" and you have added nothing to
this. The previous Labour PM and Dame Kiri are both upset by this silliness.
I doubt it has anything to do with money and it certainly was not caused by the
previous government - that is hogwash.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Crash
and I would have thought it would
have been mentioned if it was. As things stand, the proposed actions
are a solution in search of a problem.
It is not uncommon these days for reporters to merely report what they
are given' there are very few quality journalists; in our money is
everything neo-liberal world, the lowest denominator makes the most
money - if you want real journalism you mnay need to pay for it . . .
Entirely off topic.
Correct. For the benefit of Rich: the topic (in the article Tony
cited in the OP) is proposed changes to the RNZ Concert Program that
see it broadcast only on AM and internet streaming in order to allow a
new youth-focused program (derogatorily called 'Spotify-on-air) to be
introduced.
Sometimes the reasons for prposals or results need a bit more
information. James Christophers has provided some good new information
that would have been avaialble to the reporter if more time or skills
had been available - and yes it is related to money - greed from
government to turn away from a public benefit model to a coporate
model, with associated management imperatives.

So all totally on-topic - just not the narrow version favoured by
those who think their simplistic thinking is all that there will ever
be . . .
Tony
2020-02-07 01:05:48 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
Post by Crash
On Thu, 06 Feb 2020 13:40:40 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 05 Feb 2020 23:58:11 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Crash
On Wed, 05 Feb 2020 22:14:51 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
https://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/tv-radio/119320084/rnz-proposal-to-dial-down-concert-a-slap-in-the-face
There are dozens of stations that cater for young people as there
should
be.
Classical music is soul food.
Completely missing from that article is what problem is that the
proposal is a solution to.
Yes indeed.
Almost certainly money. Do you care enough to pay slightly higher
taxes to keep it?
Nothing about money in the article
Perhaps that is why the previous poster said "Completely missing from
that article is what problem is that the proposal is a solution to." -
and we had nine years where the only important priorities were
subsidies to business or tax cuts - the question is whether that went
too far if budget concerns are now hitting what somebelieve to be a
cultural icon.
You are in fact replying to the "previous poster" and you have added nothing to
this. The previous Labour PM and Dame Kiri are both upset by this silliness.
I doubt it has anything to do with money and it certainly was not caused by the
previous government - that is hogwash.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Crash
and I would have thought it would
have been mentioned if it was. As things stand, the proposed actions
are a solution in search of a problem.
It is not uncommon these days for reporters to merely report what they
are given' there are very few quality journalists; in our money is
everything neo-liberal world, the lowest denominator makes the most
money - if you want real journalism you mnay need to pay for it . . .
Entirely off topic.
Correct. For the benefit of Rich: the topic (in the article Tony
cited in the OP) is proposed changes to the RNZ Concert Program that
see it broadcast only on AM and internet streaming in order to allow a
new youth-focused program (derogatorily called 'Spotify-on-air) to be
introduced.
Sometimes the reasons for prposals or results need a bit more
information. James Christophers has provided some good new information
that would have been avaialble to the reporter if more time or skills
had been available - and yes it is related to money - greed from
government to turn away from a public benefit model to a coporate
model, with associated management imperatives.
So all totally on-topic - just not the narrow version favoured by
those who think their simplistic thinking is all that there will ever
be . . .
Like you of course.
I do not believe it is about money and neither does Keith Warren. So definitely
off topic.
James Christophers
2020-02-07 03:40:15 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
Post by Crash
On Thu, 06 Feb 2020 13:40:40 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 05 Feb 2020 23:58:11 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Crash
On Wed, 05 Feb 2020 22:14:51 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
https://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/tv-radio/119320084/rnz-proposal-to-dial-down-concert-a-slap-in-the-face
There are dozens of stations that cater for young people as there should
be.
Classical music is soul food.
Completely missing from that article is what problem is that the
proposal is a solution to.
Yes indeed.
Almost certainly money. Do you care enough to pay slightly higher
taxes to keep it?
Nothing about money in the article
Perhaps that is why the previous poster said "Completely missing from
that article is what problem is that the proposal is a solution to." -
and we had nine years where the only important priorities were
subsidies to business or tax cuts - the question is whether that went
too far if budget concerns are now hitting what somebelieve to be a
cultural icon.
You are in fact replying to the "previous poster" and you have added nothing to
this. The previous Labour PM and Dame Kiri are both upset by this silliness.
I doubt it has anything to do with money and it certainly was not caused by the
previous government - that is hogwash.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Crash
and I would have thought it would
have been mentioned if it was. As things stand, the proposed actions
are a solution in search of a problem.
It is not uncommon these days for reporters to merely report what they
are given' there are very few quality journalists; in our money is
everything neo-liberal world, the lowest denominator makes the most
money - if you want real journalism you mnay need to pay for it . . .
Entirely off topic.
Correct. For the benefit of Rich: the topic (in the article Tony
cited in the OP) is proposed changes to the RNZ Concert Program that
see it broadcast only on AM and internet streaming in order to allow a
new youth-focused program (derogatorily called 'Spotify-on-air) to be
introduced.
Sometimes the reasons for prposals or results need a bit more
information. James Christophers has provided some good new information
that would have been avaialble to the reporter if more time or skills
had been available - and yes it is related to money - greed from
government to turn away from a public benefit model to a coporate
model, with associated management imperatives.
You have the gist off it but you've gone rather off-track.

Funding is (invariably) a major concern, yes, (forget the party politics of it if you can just this once), but there's the underlying difficulty of thinking through a new model within a broadcasting ethos and structure, but where "radio" per se no longer has a place in the youth mindset and lexicon. What is so far proposed represents a paradigm shift that will reverberate throughout this country's entire cultural spectrum. And it will be irreversible.

I'd also add that, every time I hear or read of such threats as this to society's cultural heritage and values, I'm reminded of:

"Don't it always seem to go
That you don't know what you've got
'Till it's gone
They paved paradise
And put up a parking lot." (Joni Mitchell)

Mitchell wrote and performed this song, "Big Yellow Taxi", in 1970. It describes her awaking the first morning after arriving the previous night in Hawaii, and the shock of seeing from her bedroom window just how, even half a century ago, a remorseless and all-invasive commercial imperative was creeping like a fungus over the world's archetypal Pacific paradise, already visibly and inexorably despoiling it beyond recovery.

Whether or not Mitchell was being more percipient than she could ever have known one can't say, but it nevertheless echoes the message that Oscar Wilde had already famously rammed home, and this was all of a century before Mitchell sounded the clarion call:

"They know the price of everything but the value of nothing."

Now to briefly address your "greed" epithet: Governments around the world are now completely hostage to Big Finance. They'll vigorously deny it but they are and they know it, affirmed by the chaos of 2008 and all that has since ensued. So, what I believe you are now witnessing illustrates a steady shift from governing first and foremost **for Society** to governing first and foremost for Big Finance and the mighty Wall Street leviathans.

So, agreed, Radio New Zealand's travails are a piddling symptom of a creeping condition, yet the significance of what it portends is, I feel, no laughing matter.
Post by Rich80105
So all totally on-topic - just not the narrow version favoured by
those who think their simplistic thinking is all that there will ever
be . . .
Rich80105
2020-02-07 04:36:07 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Thu, 6 Feb 2020 19:40:15 -0800 (PST), James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by Rich80105
Post by Crash
On Thu, 06 Feb 2020 13:40:40 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 05 Feb 2020 23:58:11 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Crash
On Wed, 05 Feb 2020 22:14:51 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
https://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/tv-radio/119320084/rnz-proposal-to-dial-down-concert-a-slap-in-the-face
There are dozens of stations that cater for young people as there should
be.
Classical music is soul food.
Completely missing from that article is what problem is that the
proposal is a solution to.
Yes indeed.
Almost certainly money. Do you care enough to pay slightly higher
taxes to keep it?
Nothing about money in the article
Perhaps that is why the previous poster said "Completely missing from
that article is what problem is that the proposal is a solution to." -
and we had nine years where the only important priorities were
subsidies to business or tax cuts - the question is whether that went
too far if budget concerns are now hitting what somebelieve to be a
cultural icon.
You are in fact replying to the "previous poster" and you have added nothing to
this. The previous Labour PM and Dame Kiri are both upset by this silliness.
I doubt it has anything to do with money and it certainly was not caused by the
previous government - that is hogwash.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Crash
and I would have thought it would
have been mentioned if it was. As things stand, the proposed actions
are a solution in search of a problem.
It is not uncommon these days for reporters to merely report what they
are given' there are very few quality journalists; in our money is
everything neo-liberal world, the lowest denominator makes the most
money - if you want real journalism you mnay need to pay for it . . .
Entirely off topic.
Correct. For the benefit of Rich: the topic (in the article Tony
cited in the OP) is proposed changes to the RNZ Concert Program that
see it broadcast only on AM and internet streaming in order to allow a
new youth-focused program (derogatorily called 'Spotify-on-air) to be
introduced.
Sometimes the reasons for prposals or results need a bit more
information. James Christophers has provided some good new information
that would have been avaialble to the reporter if more time or skills
had been available - and yes it is related to money - greed from
government to turn away from a public benefit model to a coporate
model, with associated management imperatives.
You have the gist off it but you've gone rather off-track.
Funding is (invariably) a major concern, yes, (forget the party politics of it if you can just this once), but there's the underlying difficulty of thinking through a new model within a broadcasting ethos and structure, but where "radio" per se no longer has a place in the youth mindset and lexicon. What is so far proposed represents a paradigm shift that will reverberate throughout this country's entire cultural spectrum. And it will be irreversible.
"Don't it always seem to go
That you don't know what you've got
'Till it's gone
They paved paradise
And put up a parking lot." (Joni Mitchell)
Mitchell wrote and performed this song, "Big Yellow Taxi", in 1970. It describes her awaking the first morning after arriving the previous night in Hawaii, and the shock of seeing from her bedroom window just how, even half a century ago, a remorseless and all-invasive commercial imperative was creeping like a fungus over the world's archetypal Pacific paradise, already visibly and inexorably despoiling it beyond recovery.
"They know the price of everything but the value of nothing."
Now to briefly address your "greed" epithet: Governments around the world are now completely hostage to Big Finance. They'll vigorously deny it but they are and they know it, affirmed by the chaos of 2008 and all that has since ensued. So, what I believe you are now witnessing illustrates a steady shift from governing first and foremost **for Society** to governing first and foremost for Big Finance and the mighty Wall Street leviathans.
So, agreed, Radio New Zealand's travails are a piddling symptom of a creeping condition, yet the significance of what it portends is, I feel, no laughing matter.
Agreed, and it also explains why I also do not see this as a National
/ Labour issue. We do however have a problem with our media who leap
to cheap conclusions far too often, putting priorities on conflict
over considered thought.

The review is wider than many realise; I believe it has a long way to
go, and you are correct that Concert Radio is a small part of a larger
issue - rushes to judgement at this stage are natural but inevitably
disappointing . . .
Post by James Christophers
Post by Rich80105
So all totally on-topic - just not the narrow version favoured by
those who think their simplistic thinking is all that there will ever
be . . .
Tony
2020-02-07 19:32:58 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 6 Feb 2020 19:40:15 -0800 (PST), James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by Rich80105
Post by Crash
On Thu, 06 Feb 2020 13:40:40 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 05 Feb 2020 23:58:11 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Crash
On Wed, 05 Feb 2020 22:14:51 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Tony
https://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/tv-radio/119320084/rnz-proposal-to-dial-down-concert-a-slap-in-the-face
There are dozens of stations that cater for young people as there
should
be.
Classical music is soul food.
Completely missing from that article is what problem is that the
proposal is a solution to.
Yes indeed.
Almost certainly money. Do you care enough to pay slightly higher
taxes to keep it?
Nothing about money in the article
Perhaps that is why the previous poster said "Completely missing from
that article is what problem is that the proposal is a solution to." -
and we had nine years where the only important priorities were
subsidies to business or tax cuts - the question is whether that went
too far if budget concerns are now hitting what somebelieve to be a
cultural icon.
You are in fact replying to the "previous poster" and you have added nothing to
this. The previous Labour PM and Dame Kiri are both upset by this silliness.
I doubt it has anything to do with money and it certainly was not caused by the
previous government - that is hogwash.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Crash
and I would have thought it would
have been mentioned if it was. As things stand, the proposed actions
are a solution in search of a problem.
It is not uncommon these days for reporters to merely report what they
are given' there are very few quality journalists; in our money is
everything neo-liberal world, the lowest denominator makes the most
money - if you want real journalism you mnay need to pay for it . . .
Entirely off topic.
Correct. For the benefit of Rich: the topic (in the article Tony
cited in the OP) is proposed changes to the RNZ Concert Program that
see it broadcast only on AM and internet streaming in order to allow a
new youth-focused program (derogatorily called 'Spotify-on-air) to be
introduced.
Sometimes the reasons for prposals or results need a bit more
information. James Christophers has provided some good new information
that would have been avaialble to the reporter if more time or skills
had been available - and yes it is related to money - greed from
government to turn away from a public benefit model to a coporate
model, with associated management imperatives.
You have the gist off it but you've gone rather off-track.
Funding is (invariably) a major concern, yes, (forget the party politics of
it if you can just this once), but there's the underlying difficulty of
thinking through a new model within a broadcasting ethos and structure, but
where "radio" per se no longer has a place in the youth mindset and lexicon.
What is so far proposed represents a paradigm shift that will reverberate
throughout this country's entire cultural spectrum. And it will be irreversible.
I'd also add that, every time I hear or read of such threats as this to
"Don't it always seem to go
That you don't know what you've got
'Till it's gone
They paved paradise
And put up a parking lot." (Joni Mitchell)
Mitchell wrote and performed this song, "Big Yellow Taxi", in 1970. It
describes her awaking the first morning after arriving the previous night in
Hawaii, and the shock of seeing from her bedroom window just how, even half a
century ago, a remorseless and all-invasive commercial imperative was creeping
like a fungus over the world's archetypal Pacific paradise, already visibly and
inexorably despoiling it beyond recovery.
Whether or not Mitchell was being more percipient than she could ever have
known one can't say, but it nevertheless echoes the message that Oscar Wilde
had already famously rammed home, and this was all of a century before Mitchell
"They know the price of everything but the value of nothing."
Now to briefly address your "greed" epithet: Governments around the world
are now completely hostage to Big Finance. They'll vigorously deny it but they
are and they know it, affirmed by the chaos of 2008 and all that has since
ensued. So, what I believe you are now witnessing illustrates a steady shift
from governing first and foremost **for Society** to governing first and
foremost for Big Finance and the mighty Wall Street leviathans.
So, agreed, Radio New Zealand's travails are a piddling symptom of a creeping
condition, yet the significance of what it portends is, I feel, no laughing
matter.
Agreed, and it also explains why I also do not see this as a National
/ Labour issue. We do however have a problem with our media who leap
to cheap conclusions far too often, putting priorities on conflict
over considered thought.
The review is wider than many realise;
This indicates it is not about money -
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/119346104/youth-radio-killed-the-classical-star
Post by Rich80105
I believe it has a long way to
go, and you are correct that Concert Radio is a small part of a larger
issue - rushes to judgement at this stage are natural but inevitably
disappointing . . .
Making a judgement about this announcement is certainly not rushing and if you
are disappointed in the judgement then you are presumably happy with the
removal of one of the few classical outlets in broadcasting, an outlet that is
far more popular than most people believe.
If anything has been rushed it is this decision that Faafoi now sees is
upsetting many people.
Post by Rich80105
Post by James Christophers
Post by Rich80105
So all totally on-topic - just not the narrow version favoured by
those who think their simplistic thinking is all that there will ever
be . . .
Rich80105
2020-02-07 23:00:39 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Fri, 07 Feb 2020 13:32:58 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 6 Feb 2020 19:40:15 -0800 (PST), James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by Rich80105
Post by Crash
On Thu, 06 Feb 2020 13:40:40 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 05 Feb 2020 23:58:11 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Crash
On Wed, 05 Feb 2020 22:14:51 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Tony
https://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/tv-radio/119320084/rnz-proposal-to-dial-down-concert-a-slap-in-the-face
There are dozens of stations that cater for young people as there
should
be.
Classical music is soul food.
Completely missing from that article is what problem is that the
proposal is a solution to.
Yes indeed.
Almost certainly money. Do you care enough to pay slightly higher
taxes to keep it?
Nothing about money in the article
Perhaps that is why the previous poster said "Completely missing from
that article is what problem is that the proposal is a solution to." -
and we had nine years where the only important priorities were
subsidies to business or tax cuts - the question is whether that went
too far if budget concerns are now hitting what somebelieve to be a
cultural icon.
You are in fact replying to the "previous poster" and you have added nothing to
this. The previous Labour PM and Dame Kiri are both upset by this silliness.
I doubt it has anything to do with money and it certainly was not caused by the
previous government - that is hogwash.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Crash
and I would have thought it would
have been mentioned if it was. As things stand, the proposed actions
are a solution in search of a problem.
It is not uncommon these days for reporters to merely report what they
are given' there are very few quality journalists; in our money is
everything neo-liberal world, the lowest denominator makes the most
money - if you want real journalism you mnay need to pay for it . . .
Entirely off topic.
Correct. For the benefit of Rich: the topic (in the article Tony
cited in the OP) is proposed changes to the RNZ Concert Program that
see it broadcast only on AM and internet streaming in order to allow a
new youth-focused program (derogatorily called 'Spotify-on-air) to be
introduced.
Sometimes the reasons for prposals or results need a bit more
information. James Christophers has provided some good new information
that would have been avaialble to the reporter if more time or skills
had been available - and yes it is related to money - greed from
government to turn away from a public benefit model to a coporate
model, with associated management imperatives.
You have the gist off it but you've gone rather off-track.
Funding is (invariably) a major concern, yes, (forget the party politics of
it if you can just this once), but there's the underlying difficulty of
thinking through a new model within a broadcasting ethos and structure, but
where "radio" per se no longer has a place in the youth mindset and lexicon.
What is so far proposed represents a paradigm shift that will reverberate
throughout this country's entire cultural spectrum. And it will be irreversible.
I'd also add that, every time I hear or read of such threats as this to
"Don't it always seem to go
That you don't know what you've got
'Till it's gone
They paved paradise
And put up a parking lot." (Joni Mitchell)
Mitchell wrote and performed this song, "Big Yellow Taxi", in 1970. It
describes her awaking the first morning after arriving the previous night in
Hawaii, and the shock of seeing from her bedroom window just how, even half a
century ago, a remorseless and all-invasive commercial imperative was creeping
like a fungus over the world's archetypal Pacific paradise, already visibly and
inexorably despoiling it beyond recovery.
Whether or not Mitchell was being more percipient than she could ever have
known one can't say, but it nevertheless echoes the message that Oscar Wilde
had already famously rammed home, and this was all of a century before Mitchell
"They know the price of everything but the value of nothing."
Now to briefly address your "greed" epithet: Governments around the world
are now completely hostage to Big Finance. They'll vigorously deny it but they
are and they know it, affirmed by the chaos of 2008 and all that has since
ensued. So, what I believe you are now witnessing illustrates a steady shift
from governing first and foremost **for Society** to governing first and
foremost for Big Finance and the mighty Wall Street leviathans.
So, agreed, Radio New Zealand's travails are a piddling symptom of a creeping
condition, yet the significance of what it portends is, I feel, no laughing
matter.
Agreed, and it also explains why I also do not see this as a National
/ Labour issue. We do however have a problem with our media who leap
to cheap conclusions far too often, putting priorities on conflict
over considered thought.
The review is wider than many realise;
This indicates it is not about money -
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/119346104/youth-radio-killed-the-classical-star
Post by Rich80105
I believe it has a long way to
go, and you are correct that Concert Radio is a small part of a larger
issue - rushes to judgement at this stage are natural but inevitably
disappointing . . .
Making a judgement about this announcement is certainly not rushing and if you
are disappointed in the judgement then you are presumably happy with the
removal of one of the few classical outlets in broadcasting, an outlet that is
far more popular than most people believe.
If anything has been rushed it is this decision that Faafoi now sees is
upsetting many people.
Thre have certainly been recommendations, but I am not aware of any
decisions - can you give any evidence to support that?
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by James Christophers
Post by Rich80105
So all totally on-topic - just not the narrow version favoured by
those who think their simplistic thinking is all that there will ever
be . . .
Tony
2020-02-07 23:37:07 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 07 Feb 2020 13:32:58 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 6 Feb 2020 19:40:15 -0800 (PST), James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by Rich80105
Post by Crash
On Thu, 06 Feb 2020 13:40:40 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 05 Feb 2020 23:58:11 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Crash
On Wed, 05 Feb 2020 22:14:51 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Tony
https://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/tv-radio/119320084/rnz-proposal-to-dial-down-concert-a-slap-in-the-face
There are dozens of stations that cater for young people as there
should
be.
Classical music is soul food.
Completely missing from that article is what problem is that the
proposal is a solution to.
Yes indeed.
Almost certainly money. Do you care enough to pay slightly higher
taxes to keep it?
Nothing about money in the article
Perhaps that is why the previous poster said "Completely missing from
that article is what problem is that the proposal is a solution to." -
and we had nine years where the only important priorities were
subsidies to business or tax cuts - the question is whether that went
too far if budget concerns are now hitting what somebelieve to be a
cultural icon.
You are in fact replying to the "previous poster" and you have added nothing to
this. The previous Labour PM and Dame Kiri are both upset by this silliness.
I doubt it has anything to do with money and it certainly was not
caused
by the
previous government - that is hogwash.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Crash
and I would have thought it would
have been mentioned if it was. As things stand, the proposed actions
are a solution in search of a problem.
It is not uncommon these days for reporters to merely report what they
are given' there are very few quality journalists; in our money is
everything neo-liberal world, the lowest denominator makes the most
money - if you want real journalism you mnay need to pay for it . . .
Entirely off topic.
Correct. For the benefit of Rich: the topic (in the article Tony
cited in the OP) is proposed changes to the RNZ Concert Program that
see it broadcast only on AM and internet streaming in order to allow a
new youth-focused program (derogatorily called 'Spotify-on-air) to be
introduced.
Sometimes the reasons for prposals or results need a bit more
information. James Christophers has provided some good new information
that would have been avaialble to the reporter if more time or skills
had been available - and yes it is related to money - greed from
government to turn away from a public benefit model to a coporate
model, with associated management imperatives.
You have the gist off it but you've gone rather off-track.
Funding is (invariably) a major concern, yes, (forget the party politics of
it if you can just this once), but there's the underlying difficulty of
thinking through a new model within a broadcasting ethos and structure, but
where "radio" per se no longer has a place in the youth mindset and lexicon.
What is so far proposed represents a paradigm shift that will reverberate
throughout this country's entire cultural spectrum. And it will be irreversible.
I'd also add that, every time I hear or read of such threats as this to
"Don't it always seem to go
That you don't know what you've got
'Till it's gone
They paved paradise
And put up a parking lot." (Joni Mitchell)
Mitchell wrote and performed this song, "Big Yellow Taxi", in 1970. It
describes her awaking the first morning after arriving the previous night in
Hawaii, and the shock of seeing from her bedroom window just how, even half a
century ago, a remorseless and all-invasive commercial imperative was creeping
like a fungus over the world's archetypal Pacific paradise, already visibly and
inexorably despoiling it beyond recovery.
Whether or not Mitchell was being more percipient than she could ever have
known one can't say, but it nevertheless echoes the message that Oscar Wilde
had already famously rammed home, and this was all of a century before Mitchell
"They know the price of everything but the value of nothing."
Now to briefly address your "greed" epithet: Governments around the world
are now completely hostage to Big Finance. They'll vigorously deny it but they
are and they know it, affirmed by the chaos of 2008 and all that has since
ensued. So, what I believe you are now witnessing illustrates a steady shift
from governing first and foremost **for Society** to governing first and
foremost for Big Finance and the mighty Wall Street leviathans.
So, agreed, Radio New Zealand's travails are a piddling symptom of a creeping
condition, yet the significance of what it portends is, I feel, no laughing
matter.
Agreed, and it also explains why I also do not see this as a National
/ Labour issue. We do however have a problem with our media who leap
to cheap conclusions far too often, putting priorities on conflict
over considered thought.
The review is wider than many realise;
This indicates it is not about money -
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/119346104/youth-radio-killed-the-classical-star
Post by Rich80105
I believe it has a long way to
go, and you are correct that Concert Radio is a small part of a larger
issue - rushes to judgement at this stage are natural but inevitably
disappointing . . .
Making a judgement about this announcement is certainly not rushing and if you
are disappointed in the judgement then you are presumably happy with the
removal of one of the few classical outlets in broadcasting, an outlet that is
far more popular than most people believe.
If anything has been rushed it is this decision that Faafoi now sees is
upsetting many people.
Thre have certainly been recommendations, but I am not aware of any
decisions - can you give any evidence to support that?
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/119346104/youth-radio-killed-the-classical-star
"We learned on Wednesday that RNZ plans to charge ahead with what it calls "the
biggest overhaul of its music services in years" and it plans to do it very
soon. "
"RNZ expects to have its long-established classical music station Concert FM
off air by the end of May"
That is not a proposal, that is a decision. Ministerial intervention should
occur now to make this decision go away so that at the very least proper
consultation with the real stakeholders can occur.
Still no evidence that this is money related.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by James Christophers
Post by Rich80105
So all totally on-topic - just not the narrow version favoured by
those who think their simplistic thinking is all that there will ever
be . . .
James Christophers
2020-02-08 00:27:13 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 07 Feb 2020 13:32:58 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 6 Feb 2020 19:40:15 -0800 (PST), James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by Rich80105
Post by Crash
On Thu, 06 Feb 2020 13:40:40 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 05 Feb 2020 23:58:11 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Crash
On Wed, 05 Feb 2020 22:14:51 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot
net
Post by Tony
Post by Tony
https://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/tv-radio/119320084/rnz-proposal-to-dial-down-concert-a-slap-in-the-face
There are dozens of stations that cater for young people as there
should
be.
Classical music is soul food.
Completely missing from that article is what problem is that the
proposal is a solution to.
Yes indeed.
Almost certainly money. Do you care enough to pay slightly higher
taxes to keep it?
Nothing about money in the article
Perhaps that is why the previous poster said "Completely missing from
that article is what problem is that the proposal is a solution to." -
and we had nine years where the only important priorities were
subsidies to business or tax cuts - the question is whether that went
too far if budget concerns are now hitting what somebelieve to be a
cultural icon.
You are in fact replying to the "previous poster" and you have added
nothing to
this. The previous Labour PM and Dame Kiri are both upset by this
silliness.
I doubt it has anything to do with money and it certainly was not
caused
by the
previous government - that is hogwash.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Crash
and I would have thought it would
have been mentioned if it was. As things stand, the proposed actions
are a solution in search of a problem.
It is not uncommon these days for reporters to merely report what they
are given' there are very few quality journalists; in our money is
everything neo-liberal world, the lowest denominator makes the most
money - if you want real journalism you mnay need to pay for it . . .
Entirely off topic.
Correct. For the benefit of Rich: the topic (in the article Tony
cited in the OP) is proposed changes to the RNZ Concert Program that
see it broadcast only on AM and internet streaming in order to allow a
new youth-focused program (derogatorily called 'Spotify-on-air) to be
introduced.
Sometimes the reasons for prposals or results need a bit more
information. James Christophers has provided some good new information
that would have been avaialble to the reporter if more time or skills
had been available - and yes it is related to money - greed from
government to turn away from a public benefit model to a coporate
model, with associated management imperatives.
You have the gist off it but you've gone rather off-track.
Funding is (invariably) a major concern, yes, (forget the party politics of
it if you can just this once), but there's the underlying difficulty of
thinking through a new model within a broadcasting ethos and structure, but
where "radio" per se no longer has a place in the youth mindset and lexicon.
What is so far proposed represents a paradigm shift that will reverberate
throughout this country's entire cultural spectrum. And it will be irreversible.
I'd also add that, every time I hear or read of such threats as this to
"Don't it always seem to go
That you don't know what you've got
'Till it's gone
They paved paradise
And put up a parking lot." (Joni Mitchell)
Mitchell wrote and performed this song, "Big Yellow Taxi", in 1970. It
describes her awaking the first morning after arriving the previous night in
Hawaii, and the shock of seeing from her bedroom window just how, even half a
century ago, a remorseless and all-invasive commercial imperative was creeping
like a fungus over the world's archetypal Pacific paradise, already visibly and
inexorably despoiling it beyond recovery.
Whether or not Mitchell was being more percipient than she could ever have
known one can't say, but it nevertheless echoes the message that Oscar Wilde
had already famously rammed home, and this was all of a century before Mitchell
"They know the price of everything but the value of nothing."
Now to briefly address your "greed" epithet: Governments around the world
are now completely hostage to Big Finance. They'll vigorously deny it but they
are and they know it, affirmed by the chaos of 2008 and all that has since
ensued. So, what I believe you are now witnessing illustrates a steady shift
from governing first and foremost **for Society** to governing first and
foremost for Big Finance and the mighty Wall Street leviathans.
So, agreed, Radio New Zealand's travails are a piddling symptom of a creeping
condition, yet the significance of what it portends is, I feel, no laughing
matter.
Agreed, and it also explains why I also do not see this as a National
/ Labour issue. We do however have a problem with our media who leap
to cheap conclusions far too often, putting priorities on conflict
over considered thought.
The review is wider than many realise;
This indicates it is not about money -
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/119346104/youth-radio-killed-the-classical-star
Post by Rich80105
I believe it has a long way to
go, and you are correct that Concert Radio is a small part of a larger
issue - rushes to judgement at this stage are natural but inevitably
disappointing . . .
Making a judgement about this announcement is certainly not rushing and if you
are disappointed in the judgement then you are presumably happy with the
removal of one of the few classical outlets in broadcasting, an outlet that is
far more popular than most people believe.
If anything has been rushed it is this decision that Faafoi now sees is
upsetting many people.
Thre have certainly been recommendations, but I am not aware of any
decisions - can you give any evidence to support that?
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/119346104/youth-radio-killed-the-classical-star
"We learned on Wednesday that RNZ plans to charge ahead with what it calls "the
biggest overhaul of its music services in years" and it plans to do it very
soon. "
"RNZ expects to have its long-established classical music station Concert FM
off air by the end of May"
That is not a proposal, that is a decision. Ministerial intervention should
occur now to make this decision go away so that at the very least proper
consultation with the real stakeholders can occur.
Still no evidence that this is money related.
In terms of proportionality - i.e. cost per listener - to any beancounter Concert in its current form is insupportable. OK, yes, it always has been as I for one know full well having been at the centre of its core technical operations for many years. But the jig is now up. Today is the day of reckoning when a societal good must, it seems, kneel to the economic facts of 21st century life.

Toby Manhire reports: "Twenty positions are to go as of March 25. They include 12 RNZ Concert roles and eight that span National or RNZ as a whole, including producers and librarians. There would be four redeployments among those, and a dozen new roles on the “new RNZ music brand”, all based in Auckland."

https://thespinoff.co.nz/media/07-02-2020/rnz-is-overhauling-its-music-network-and-a-lot-of-people-are-mad-as-hell-about-it/

Here's Russell Brown's take on it:

https://publicaddress.net/hardnews/rage-and-change-rnzs-music-problem/

Both Manhire and Brown are not to be lightly dismissed; both have plumbed the essence of it at some length, and not before time in my view.

Personal addendum:
I left the broadcasting industry more than 10 years ago, so even now for me as for countless others, this is a highly emotive and emotional issue.

Nevertheless, I'm trying to address it as dispassionately as I can because by and large I've always been acutely conscious of the inevitable conflict between harsh economic reality and the public good; whereas I can tell you others involved in the outfit have been anything but having become so embedded and institutionalised as to be beyond all persuasion or redemption.

To their great credit, though, every single one of them has been dedicated way and beyond the call of duty while working almost the ambience of a yet-to-mature overall national mindset that still harbours a derision and dismissiveness for anything even remotely smacking of intellectualism or elitism.

For them - every one of them - this axe-blow to their unique skills and dearly-held core values will amount to nothing less than a living bereavement, even for those nearing retirement.
James Christophers
2020-02-08 00:34:43 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 07 Feb 2020 13:32:58 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 6 Feb 2020 19:40:15 -0800 (PST), James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by Rich80105
Post by Crash
On Thu, 06 Feb 2020 13:40:40 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 05 Feb 2020 23:58:11 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Crash
On Wed, 05 Feb 2020 22:14:51 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot
net
Post by Tony
Post by Tony
https://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/tv-radio/119320084/rnz-proposal-to-dial-down-concert-a-slap-in-the-face
There are dozens of stations that cater for young people as there
should
be.
Classical music is soul food.
Completely missing from that article is what problem is that the
proposal is a solution to.
Yes indeed.
Almost certainly money. Do you care enough to pay slightly higher
taxes to keep it?
Nothing about money in the article
Perhaps that is why the previous poster said "Completely missing from
that article is what problem is that the proposal is a solution to." -
and we had nine years where the only important priorities were
subsidies to business or tax cuts - the question is whether that went
too far if budget concerns are now hitting what somebelieve to be a
cultural icon.
You are in fact replying to the "previous poster" and you have added
nothing to
this. The previous Labour PM and Dame Kiri are both upset by this
silliness.
I doubt it has anything to do with money and it certainly was not
caused
by the
previous government - that is hogwash.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Crash
and I would have thought it would
have been mentioned if it was. As things stand, the proposed actions
are a solution in search of a problem.
It is not uncommon these days for reporters to merely report what they
are given' there are very few quality journalists; in our money is
everything neo-liberal world, the lowest denominator makes the most
money - if you want real journalism you mnay need to pay for it . . .
Entirely off topic.
Correct. For the benefit of Rich: the topic (in the article Tony
cited in the OP) is proposed changes to the RNZ Concert Program that
see it broadcast only on AM and internet streaming in order to allow a
new youth-focused program (derogatorily called 'Spotify-on-air) to be
introduced.
Sometimes the reasons for prposals or results need a bit more
information. James Christophers has provided some good new information
that would have been avaialble to the reporter if more time or skills
had been available - and yes it is related to money - greed from
government to turn away from a public benefit model to a coporate
model, with associated management imperatives.
You have the gist off it but you've gone rather off-track.
Funding is (invariably) a major concern, yes, (forget the party politics of
it if you can just this once), but there's the underlying difficulty of
thinking through a new model within a broadcasting ethos and structure, but
where "radio" per se no longer has a place in the youth mindset and lexicon.
What is so far proposed represents a paradigm shift that will reverberate
throughout this country's entire cultural spectrum. And it will be
irreversible.
I'd also add that, every time I hear or read of such threats as this to
"Don't it always seem to go
That you don't know what you've got
'Till it's gone
They paved paradise
And put up a parking lot." (Joni Mitchell)
Mitchell wrote and performed this song, "Big Yellow Taxi", in 1970. It
describes her awaking the first morning after arriving the previous night in
Hawaii, and the shock of seeing from her bedroom window just how, even half a
century ago, a remorseless and all-invasive commercial imperative was creeping
like a fungus over the world's archetypal Pacific paradise, already visibly and
inexorably despoiling it beyond recovery.
Whether or not Mitchell was being more percipient than she could ever have
known one can't say, but it nevertheless echoes the message that Oscar Wilde
had already famously rammed home, and this was all of a century before Mitchell
"They know the price of everything but the value of nothing."
Now to briefly address your "greed" epithet: Governments around the world
are now completely hostage to Big Finance. They'll vigorously deny it but they
are and they know it, affirmed by the chaos of 2008 and all that has since
ensued. So, what I believe you are now witnessing illustrates a steady shift
from governing first and foremost **for Society** to governing first and
foremost for Big Finance and the mighty Wall Street leviathans.
So, agreed, Radio New Zealand's travails are a piddling symptom of a creeping
condition, yet the significance of what it portends is, I feel, no laughing
matter.
Agreed, and it also explains why I also do not see this as a National
/ Labour issue. We do however have a problem with our media who leap
to cheap conclusions far too often, putting priorities on conflict
over considered thought.
The review is wider than many realise;
This indicates it is not about money -
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/119346104/youth-radio-killed-the-classical-star
Post by Rich80105
I believe it has a long way to
go, and you are correct that Concert Radio is a small part of a larger
issue - rushes to judgement at this stage are natural but inevitably
disappointing . . .
Making a judgement about this announcement is certainly not rushing and if you
are disappointed in the judgement then you are presumably happy with the
removal of one of the few classical outlets in broadcasting, an outlet that is
far more popular than most people believe.
If anything has been rushed it is this decision that Faafoi now sees is
upsetting many people.
Thre have certainly been recommendations, but I am not aware of any
decisions - can you give any evidence to support that?
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/119346104/youth-radio-killed-the-classical-star
"We learned on Wednesday that RNZ plans to charge ahead with what it calls "the
biggest overhaul of its music services in years" and it plans to do it very
soon. "
"RNZ expects to have its long-established classical music station Concert FM
off air by the end of May"
That is not a proposal, that is a decision. Ministerial intervention should
occur now to make this decision go away so that at the very least proper
consultation with the real stakeholders can occur.
Still no evidence that this is money related.
In terms of proportionality - i.e. cost per listener - to any beancounter Concert in its current form is insupportable. OK, yes, it always has been as I for one know full well having been at the centre of its core technical operations for many years. But the jig is now up. Today is the day of reckoning when a societal good must, it seems, kneel to the economic facts of 21st century life.
Toby Manhire reports: "Twenty positions are to go as of March 25. They include 12 RNZ Concert roles and eight that span National or RNZ as a whole, including producers and librarians. There would be four redeployments among those, and a dozen new roles on the “new RNZ music brand”, all based in Auckland."
https://thespinoff.co.nz/media/07-02-2020/rnz-is-overhauling-its-music-network-and-a-lot-of-people-are-mad-as-hell-about-it/
https://publicaddress.net/hardnews/rage-and-change-rnzs-music-problem/
Both Manhire and Brown are not to be lightly dismissed; both have plumbed the essence of it at some length, and not before time in my view.
I left the broadcasting industry more than 10 years ago, so even now for me as for countless others, this is a highly emotive and emotional issue.
Nevertheless, I'm trying to address it as dispassionately as I can because by and large I've always been acutely conscious of the inevitable conflict between harsh economic reality and the public good; whereas I can tell you others involved in the outfit have been anything but having become so embedded and institutionalised as to be beyond all persuasion or redemption.
To their great credit, though, every single one of them has been dedicated way and beyond the call of duty while working almost the ambience of a yet-to-mature overall national mindset that still harbours a derision and dismissiveness for anything even remotely smacking of intellectualism or elitism.
For them - every one of them - this axe-blow to their unique skills and dearly-held core values will amount to nothing less than a living bereavement, even for those nearing retirement.
________________

Ooops! Please substitute 'in the ambience of' for 'almost the ambience of' in the penultimate para.
Tony
2020-02-08 00:42:16 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 07 Feb 2020 13:32:58 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 6 Feb 2020 19:40:15 -0800 (PST), James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by Rich80105
Post by Crash
On Thu, 06 Feb 2020 13:40:40 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
On Thu, 06 Feb 2020 21:47:41 +1300, Crash
On Thu, 06 Feb 2020 21:03:38 +1300, Rich80105
Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 05 Feb 2020 23:58:11 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot
net
Post by Tony
Post by Crash
On Wed, 05 Feb 2020 22:14:51 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon
dot
net
Post by Tony
Post by Tony
https://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/tv-radio/119320084/rnz-proposal-to-dial-down-concert-a-slap-in-the-face
There are dozens of stations that cater for young people as
there
should
be.
Classical music is soul food.
Completely missing from that article is what problem is that the
proposal is a solution to.
Yes indeed.
Almost certainly money. Do you care enough to pay slightly higher
taxes to keep it?
Nothing about money in the article
Perhaps that is why the previous poster said "Completely missing from
that article is what problem is that the proposal is a solution to." -
and we had nine years where the only important priorities were
subsidies to business or tax cuts - the question is whether that went
too far if budget concerns are now hitting what somebelieve to be a
cultural icon.
You are in fact replying to the "previous poster" and you have added
nothing to
this. The previous Labour PM and Dame Kiri are both upset by this
silliness.
I doubt it has anything to do with money and it certainly was not
caused
by the
previous government - that is hogwash.
and I would have thought it would
have been mentioned if it was. As things stand, the proposed actions
are a solution in search of a problem.
It is not uncommon these days for reporters to merely report what they
are given' there are very few quality journalists; in our money is
everything neo-liberal world, the lowest denominator makes the most
money - if you want real journalism you mnay need to pay for it . . .
Entirely off topic.
Correct. For the benefit of Rich: the topic (in the article Tony
cited in the OP) is proposed changes to the RNZ Concert Program that
see it broadcast only on AM and internet streaming in order to allow a
new youth-focused program (derogatorily called 'Spotify-on-air) to be
introduced.
Sometimes the reasons for prposals or results need a bit more
information. James Christophers has provided some good new information
that would have been avaialble to the reporter if more time or skills
had been available - and yes it is related to money - greed from
government to turn away from a public benefit model to a coporate
model, with associated management imperatives.
You have the gist off it but you've gone rather off-track.
Funding is (invariably) a major concern, yes, (forget the party politics of
it if you can just this once), but there's the underlying difficulty of
thinking through a new model within a broadcasting ethos and structure, but
where "radio" per se no longer has a place in the youth mindset and lexicon.
What is so far proposed represents a paradigm shift that will reverberate
throughout this country's entire cultural spectrum. And it will be irreversible.
I'd also add that, every time I hear or read of such threats as this to
"Don't it always seem to go
That you don't know what you've got
'Till it's gone
They paved paradise
And put up a parking lot." (Joni Mitchell)
Mitchell wrote and performed this song, "Big Yellow Taxi", in 1970. It
describes her awaking the first morning after arriving the previous
night
in
Hawaii, and the shock of seeing from her bedroom window just how, even
half
a
century ago, a remorseless and all-invasive commercial imperative was creeping
like a fungus over the world's archetypal Pacific paradise, already
visibly
and
inexorably despoiling it beyond recovery.
Whether or not Mitchell was being more percipient than she could ever have
known one can't say, but it nevertheless echoes the message that Oscar Wilde
had already famously rammed home, and this was all of a century before Mitchell
"They know the price of everything but the value of nothing."
Now to briefly address your "greed" epithet: Governments around the world
are now completely hostage to Big Finance. They'll vigorously deny it
but
they
are and they know it, affirmed by the chaos of 2008 and all that has since
ensued. So, what I believe you are now witnessing illustrates a steady shift
from governing first and foremost **for Society** to governing first and
foremost for Big Finance and the mighty Wall Street leviathans.
So, agreed, Radio New Zealand's travails are a piddling symptom of a creeping
condition, yet the significance of what it portends is, I feel, no laughing
matter.
Agreed, and it also explains why I also do not see this as a National
/ Labour issue. We do however have a problem with our media who leap
to cheap conclusions far too often, putting priorities on conflict
over considered thought.
The review is wider than many realise;
This indicates it is not about money -
Post by Rich80105
Post by James Christophers
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/119346104/youth-radio-killed-the-classical-star
I believe it has a long way to
go, and you are correct that Concert Radio is a small part of a larger
issue - rushes to judgement at this stage are natural but inevitably
disappointing . . .
Making a judgement about this announcement is certainly not rushing and if you
are disappointed in the judgement then you are presumably happy with the
removal of one of the few classical outlets in broadcasting, an outlet
that
is
far more popular than most people believe.
If anything has been rushed it is this decision that Faafoi now sees is
upsetting many people.
Thre have certainly been recommendations, but I am not aware of any
decisions - can you give any evidence to support that?
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/119346104/youth-radio-killed-the-classical-star
"We learned on Wednesday that RNZ plans to charge ahead with what it calls "the
biggest overhaul of its music services in years" and it plans to do it very
soon. "
"RNZ expects to have its long-established classical music station Concert FM
off air by the end of May"
That is not a proposal, that is a decision. Ministerial intervention should
occur now to make this decision go away so that at the very least proper
consultation with the real stakeholders can occur.
Still no evidence that this is money related.
In terms of proportionality - i.e. cost per listener - to any beancounter
Concert in its current form is insupportable. OK, yes, it always has been as I
for one know full well having been at the centre of its core technical
operations for many years. But the jig is now up. Today is the day of
reckoning when a societal good must, it seems, kneel to the economic facts of
21st century life.
Toby Manhire reports: "Twenty positions are to go as of March 25. They include
12 RNZ Concert roles and eight that span National or RNZ as a whole, including
producers and librarians. There would be four redeployments among those, and a
dozen new roles on the “new RNZ music brand”, all based in Auckland."
https://thespinoff.co.nz/media/07-02-2020/rnz-is-overhauling-its-music-network-and-a-lot-of-people-are-mad-as-hell-about-it/
https://publicaddress.net/hardnews/rage-and-change-rnzs-music-problem/
Both Manhire and Brown are not to be lightly dismissed; both have plumbed the
essence of it at some length, and not before time in my view.
I left the broadcasting industry more than 10 years ago, so even now for me as
for countless others, this is a highly emotive and emotional issue.
Nevertheless, I'm trying to address it as dispassionately as I can because by
and large I've always been acutely conscious of the inevitable conflict between
harsh economic reality and the public good; whereas I can tell you others
involved in the outfit have been anything but having become so embedded and
institutionalised as to be beyond all persuasion or redemption.
To their great credit, though, every single one of them has been dedicated way
and beyond the call of duty while working almost the ambience of a
yet-to-mature overall national mindset that still harbours a derision and
dismissiveness for anything even remotely smacking of intellectualism or
elitism.
For them - every one of them - this axe-blow to their unique skills and
dearly-held core values will amount to nothing less than a living bereavement,
even for those nearing retirement.
I don't argue with that.
Some things however are worth the cost.
I believe that this is one of those things.
You cannot really put a value on culture (an often overused word but
appropriate here).
Arguably our defence force is unaffordable, as is our welfare system, as are
"free" hospitals etc. Those things may well be more important than RNZ concert
but replacing that with music for younger people and some parliament broadcasts
(both of which are well catered for already) is a slap in the face and I
believe probably an excuse. Additionally the 170,000 weekly listeners were not
consulted apparently; no doubt because "we know what they will say so let's not
bother".
This one is worth a fight and I hope that happens.
Rich80105
2020-02-08 02:14:16 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Fri, 07 Feb 2020 18:42:16 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 07 Feb 2020 13:32:58 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 6 Feb 2020 19:40:15 -0800 (PST), James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by Rich80105
Post by Crash
On Thu, 06 Feb 2020 13:40:40 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
On Thu, 06 Feb 2020 21:47:41 +1300, Crash
On Thu, 06 Feb 2020 21:03:38 +1300, Rich80105
Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 05 Feb 2020 23:58:11 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot
net
Post by Tony
Post by Crash
On Wed, 05 Feb 2020 22:14:51 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon
dot
net
Post by Tony
Post by Tony
https://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/tv-radio/119320084/rnz-proposal-to-dial-down-concert-a-slap-in-the-face
There are dozens of stations that cater for young people as
there
should
be.
Classical music is soul food.
Completely missing from that article is what problem is that the
proposal is a solution to.
Yes indeed.
Almost certainly money. Do you care enough to pay slightly higher
taxes to keep it?
Nothing about money in the article
Perhaps that is why the previous poster said "Completely missing from
that article is what problem is that the proposal is a solution
to." -
and we had nine years where the only important priorities were
subsidies to business or tax cuts - the question is whether that went
too far if budget concerns are now hitting what somebelieve to be a
cultural icon.
You are in fact replying to the "previous poster" and you have added
nothing to
this. The previous Labour PM and Dame Kiri are both upset by this
silliness.
I doubt it has anything to do with money and it certainly was not
caused
by the
previous government - that is hogwash.
and I would have thought it would
have been mentioned if it was. As things stand, the proposed
actions
are a solution in search of a problem.
It is not uncommon these days for reporters to merely report what
they
are given' there are very few quality journalists; in our money is
everything neo-liberal world, the lowest denominator makes the most
money - if you want real journalism you mnay need to pay for it . . .
Entirely off topic.
Correct. For the benefit of Rich: the topic (in the article Tony
cited in the OP) is proposed changes to the RNZ Concert Program that
see it broadcast only on AM and internet streaming in order to allow a
new youth-focused program (derogatorily called 'Spotify-on-air) to be
introduced.
Sometimes the reasons for prposals or results need a bit more
information. James Christophers has provided some good new information
that would have been avaialble to the reporter if more time or skills
had been available - and yes it is related to money - greed from
government to turn away from a public benefit model to a coporate
model, with associated management imperatives.
You have the gist off it but you've gone rather off-track.
Funding is (invariably) a major concern, yes, (forget the party politics of
it if you can just this once), but there's the underlying difficulty of
thinking through a new model within a broadcasting ethos and structure, but
where "radio" per se no longer has a place in the youth mindset and lexicon.
What is so far proposed represents a paradigm shift that will reverberate
throughout this country's entire cultural spectrum. And it will be
irreversible.
I'd also add that, every time I hear or read of such threats as this to
"Don't it always seem to go
That you don't know what you've got
'Till it's gone
They paved paradise
And put up a parking lot." (Joni Mitchell)
Mitchell wrote and performed this song, "Big Yellow Taxi", in 1970. It
describes her awaking the first morning after arriving the previous
night
in
Hawaii, and the shock of seeing from her bedroom window just how, even
half
a
century ago, a remorseless and all-invasive commercial imperative was creeping
like a fungus over the world's archetypal Pacific paradise, already
visibly
and
inexorably despoiling it beyond recovery.
Whether or not Mitchell was being more percipient than she could ever have
known one can't say, but it nevertheless echoes the message that Oscar Wilde
had already famously rammed home, and this was all of a century before Mitchell
"They know the price of everything but the value of nothing."
Now to briefly address your "greed" epithet: Governments around the world
are now completely hostage to Big Finance. They'll vigorously deny it
but
they
are and they know it, affirmed by the chaos of 2008 and all that has since
ensued. So, what I believe you are now witnessing illustrates a steady shift
from governing first and foremost **for Society** to governing first and
foremost for Big Finance and the mighty Wall Street leviathans.
So, agreed, Radio New Zealand's travails are a piddling symptom of a creeping
condition, yet the significance of what it portends is, I feel, no laughing
matter.
Agreed, and it also explains why I also do not see this as a National
/ Labour issue. We do however have a problem with our media who leap
to cheap conclusions far too often, putting priorities on conflict
over considered thought.
The review is wider than many realise;
This indicates it is not about money -
Post by Rich80105
Post by James Christophers
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/119346104/youth-radio-killed-the-classical-star
I believe it has a long way to
go, and you are correct that Concert Radio is a small part of a larger
issue - rushes to judgement at this stage are natural but inevitably
disappointing . . .
Making a judgement about this announcement is certainly not rushing and if you
are disappointed in the judgement then you are presumably happy with the
removal of one of the few classical outlets in broadcasting, an outlet
that
is
far more popular than most people believe.
If anything has been rushed it is this decision that Faafoi now sees is
upsetting many people.
Thre have certainly been recommendations, but I am not aware of any
decisions - can you give any evidence to support that?
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/119346104/youth-radio-killed-the-classical-star
"We learned on Wednesday that RNZ plans to charge ahead with what it calls "the
biggest overhaul of its music services in years" and it plans to do it very
soon. "
"RNZ expects to have its long-established classical music station Concert FM
off air by the end of May"
That is not a proposal, that is a decision. Ministerial intervention should
occur now to make this decision go away so that at the very least proper
consultation with the real stakeholders can occur.
Still no evidence that this is money related.
In terms of proportionality - i.e. cost per listener - to any beancounter
Concert in its current form is insupportable. OK, yes, it always has been as I
for one know full well having been at the centre of its core technical
operations for many years. But the jig is now up. Today is the day of
reckoning when a societal good must, it seems, kneel to the economic facts of
21st century life.
Toby Manhire reports: "Twenty positions are to go as of March 25. They include
12 RNZ Concert roles and eight that span National or RNZ as a whole, including
producers and librarians. There would be four redeployments among those, and a
dozen new roles on the “new RNZ music brandâ€?, all based in Auckland."
https://thespinoff.co.nz/media/07-02-2020/rnz-is-overhauling-its-music-network-and-a-lot-of-people-are-mad-as-hell-about-it/
https://publicaddress.net/hardnews/rage-and-change-rnzs-music-problem/
Both Manhire and Brown are not to be lightly dismissed; both have plumbed the
essence of it at some length, and not before time in my view.
I left the broadcasting industry more than 10 years ago, so even now for me as
for countless others, this is a highly emotive and emotional issue.
Nevertheless, I'm trying to address it as dispassionately as I can because by
and large I've always been acutely conscious of the inevitable conflict between
harsh economic reality and the public good; whereas I can tell you others
involved in the outfit have been anything but having become so embedded and
institutionalised as to be beyond all persuasion or redemption.
To their great credit, though, every single one of them has been dedicated way
and beyond the call of duty while working almost the ambience of a
yet-to-mature overall national mindset that still harbours a derision and
dismissiveness for anything even remotely smacking of intellectualism or
elitism.
For them - every one of them - this axe-blow to their unique skills and
dearly-held core values will amount to nothing less than a living bereavement,
even for those nearing retirement.
I don't argue with that.
Some things however are worth the cost.
I believe that this is one of those things.
You cannot really put a value on culture (an often overused word but
appropriate here).
Arguably our defence force is unaffordable, as is our welfare system, as are
"free" hospitals etc. Those things may well be more important than RNZ concert
but replacing that with music for younger people and some parliament broadcasts
(both of which are well catered for already) is a slap in the face and I
believe probably an excuse. Additionally the 170,000 weekly listeners were not
consulted apparently; no doubt because "we know what they will say so let's not
bother".
This one is worth a fight and I hope that happens.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/savernzconcert/?fref=nf

This covers a number of issues - including the reductions in funding
for RNZ over the period of the previous government. . Looking for
numbers of listeners is a reasonable measure, but public service
sometimes has bottom lines that require services to be provided that
are not totally commercial. It is clear that final decisions have
_not_ been made, despite presumptions from the usual idiots. I haven't
seen anything from Melissa Lee (Broadcasting) or Nicky Wagner (Arts,
Culture and Heritage) - fair enough really as most Broadcasting staff
involved were probably appointed during their time in government.

I believe some changes are probably necessary, but I know that if the
changes are made the reduction in broadcasting of New Zealand artists
will affect our ability to develop and appreciate local talent.
Tony
2020-02-08 02:39:02 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 07 Feb 2020 18:42:16 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Snipped for brevity
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Agreed, and it also explains why I also do not see this as a National
/ Labour issue. We do however have a problem with our media who leap
to cheap conclusions far too often, putting priorities on conflict
over considered thought.
The review is wider than many realise;
This indicates it is not about money -
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/119346104/youth-radio-killed-the-classical-star
I believe it has a long way to
go, and you are correct that Concert Radio is a small part of a larger
issue - rushes to judgement at this stage are natural but inevitably
disappointing . . .
Making a judgement about this announcement is certainly not rushing and
if
you
are disappointed in the judgement then you are presumably happy with the
removal of one of the few classical outlets in broadcasting, an outlet
that
is
far more popular than most people believe.
If anything has been rushed it is this decision that Faafoi now sees is
upsetting many people.
Thre have certainly been recommendations, but I am not aware of any
decisions - can you give any evidence to support that?
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/119346104/youth-radio-killed-the-classical-star
"We learned on Wednesday that RNZ plans to charge ahead with what it calls "the
biggest overhaul of its music services in years" and it plans to do it very
soon. "
"RNZ expects to have its long-established classical music station Concert FM
off air by the end of May"
That is not a proposal, that is a decision. Ministerial intervention should
occur now to make this decision go away so that at the very least proper
consultation with the real stakeholders can occur.
Still no evidence that this is money related.
In terms of proportionality - i.e. cost per listener - to any beancounter
Concert in its current form is insupportable. OK, yes, it always has been as I
for one know full well having been at the centre of its core technical
operations for many years. But the jig is now up. Today is the day of
reckoning when a societal good must, it seems, kneel to the economic facts of
21st century life.
Toby Manhire reports: "Twenty positions are to go as of March 25. They include
12 RNZ Concert roles and eight that span National or RNZ as a whole, including
producers and librarians. There would be four redeployments among those, and a
dozen new roles on the “new RNZ music brandâ€?, all based in Auckland."
https://thespinoff.co.nz/media/07-02-2020/rnz-is-overhauling-its-music-network-and-a-lot-of-people-are-mad-as-hell-about-it/
https://publicaddress.net/hardnews/rage-and-change-rnzs-music-problem/
Both Manhire and Brown are not to be lightly dismissed; both have plumbed the
essence of it at some length, and not before time in my view.
I left the broadcasting industry more than 10 years ago, so even now for me as
for countless others, this is a highly emotive and emotional issue.
Nevertheless, I'm trying to address it as dispassionately as I can because by
and large I've always been acutely conscious of the inevitable conflict between
harsh economic reality and the public good; whereas I can tell you others
involved in the outfit have been anything but having become so embedded and
institutionalised as to be beyond all persuasion or redemption.
To their great credit, though, every single one of them has been dedicated way
and beyond the call of duty while working almost the ambience of a
yet-to-mature overall national mindset that still harbours a derision and
dismissiveness for anything even remotely smacking of intellectualism or
elitism.
For them - every one of them - this axe-blow to their unique skills and
dearly-held core values will amount to nothing less than a living bereavement,
even for those nearing retirement.
I don't argue with that.
Some things however are worth the cost.
I believe that this is one of those things.
You cannot really put a value on culture (an often overused word but
appropriate here).
Arguably our defence force is unaffordable, as is our welfare system, as are
"free" hospitals etc. Those things may well be more important than RNZ concert
but replacing that with music for younger people and some parliament broadcasts
(both of which are well catered for already) is a slap in the face and I
believe probably an excuse. Additionally the 170,000 weekly listeners were not
consulted apparently; no doubt because "we know what they will say so let's not
bother".
This one is worth a fight and I hope that happens.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/savernzconcert/?fref=nf
This covers a number of issues - including the reductions in funding
for RNZ over the period of the previous government.
You can't avoid it can you?
This is not about poltical points, it is about art!
Post by Rich80105
. Looking for
numbers of listeners is a reasonable measure, but public service
sometimes has bottom lines that require services to be provided that
are not totally commercial.
RNZ Concert is not in any way commercial and neither should it be.
Post by Rich80105
It is clear that final decisions have
_not_ been made, despite presumptions from the usual idiots. I haven't
seen anything from Melissa Lee (Broadcasting) or Nicky Wagner (Arts,
Culture and Heritage) - fair enough really as most Broadcasting staff
involved were probably appointed during their time in government.
More political rhetoric, how about concentrating on the value or otherwise of
RNZ Concert?
Post by Rich80105
I believe some changes are probably necessary
Why
Post by Rich80105
but I know that if the
changes are made the reduction in broadcasting of New Zealand artists
will affect our ability to develop and appreciate local talent.
It is not merely about NZ artists it is much more about culture which includes
the World's artists.
Rich80105
2020-02-08 03:17:11 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Fri, 07 Feb 2020 20:39:02 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 07 Feb 2020 18:42:16 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Snipped for brevity
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Agreed, and it also explains why I also do not see this as a National
/ Labour issue. We do however have a problem with our media who leap
to cheap conclusions far too often, putting priorities on conflict
over considered thought.
The review is wider than many realise;
This indicates it is not about money -
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/119346104/youth-radio-killed-the-classical-star
I believe it has a long way to
go, and you are correct that Concert Radio is a small part of a larger
issue - rushes to judgement at this stage are natural but inevitably
disappointing . . .
Making a judgement about this announcement is certainly not rushing and
if
you
are disappointed in the judgement then you are presumably happy with the
removal of one of the few classical outlets in broadcasting, an outlet
that
is
far more popular than most people believe.
If anything has been rushed it is this decision that Faafoi now sees is
upsetting many people.
Thre have certainly been recommendations, but I am not aware of any
decisions - can you give any evidence to support that?
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/119346104/youth-radio-killed-the-classical-star
"We learned on Wednesday that RNZ plans to charge ahead with what it calls "the
biggest overhaul of its music services in years" and it plans to do it very
soon. "
"RNZ expects to have its long-established classical music station Concert FM
off air by the end of May"
That is not a proposal, that is a decision. Ministerial intervention should
occur now to make this decision go away so that at the very least proper
consultation with the real stakeholders can occur.
Still no evidence that this is money related.
In terms of proportionality - i.e. cost per listener - to any beancounter
Concert in its current form is insupportable. OK, yes, it always has been as I
for one know full well having been at the centre of its core technical
operations for many years. But the jig is now up. Today is the day of
reckoning when a societal good must, it seems, kneel to the economic facts of
21st century life.
Toby Manhire reports: "Twenty positions are to go as of March 25. They include
12 RNZ Concert roles and eight that span National or RNZ as a whole, including
producers and librarians. There would be four redeployments among those, and a
dozen new roles on the “new RNZ music brandâ€?, all based in Auckland."
https://thespinoff.co.nz/media/07-02-2020/rnz-is-overhauling-its-music-network-and-a-lot-of-people-are-mad-as-hell-about-it/
https://publicaddress.net/hardnews/rage-and-change-rnzs-music-problem/
Both Manhire and Brown are not to be lightly dismissed; both have plumbed the
essence of it at some length, and not before time in my view.
I left the broadcasting industry more than 10 years ago, so even now for me as
for countless others, this is a highly emotive and emotional issue.
Nevertheless, I'm trying to address it as dispassionately as I can because by
and large I've always been acutely conscious of the inevitable conflict between
harsh economic reality and the public good; whereas I can tell you others
involved in the outfit have been anything but having become so embedded and
institutionalised as to be beyond all persuasion or redemption.
To their great credit, though, every single one of them has been dedicated way
and beyond the call of duty while working almost the ambience of a
yet-to-mature overall national mindset that still harbours a derision and
dismissiveness for anything even remotely smacking of intellectualism or
elitism.
For them - every one of them - this axe-blow to their unique skills and
dearly-held core values will amount to nothing less than a living bereavement,
even for those nearing retirement.
I don't argue with that.
Some things however are worth the cost.
I believe that this is one of those things.
You cannot really put a value on culture (an often overused word but
appropriate here).
Arguably our defence force is unaffordable, as is our welfare system, as are
"free" hospitals etc. Those things may well be more important than RNZ concert
but replacing that with music for younger people and some parliament broadcasts
(both of which are well catered for already) is a slap in the face and I
believe probably an excuse. Additionally the 170,000 weekly listeners were not
consulted apparently; no doubt because "we know what they will say so let's not
bother".
This one is worth a fight and I hope that happens.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/savernzconcert/?fref=nf
This covers a number of issues - including the reductions in funding
for RNZ over the period of the previous government.
You can't avoid it can you?
This is not about poltical points, it is about art!
Post by Rich80105
. Looking for
numbers of listeners is a reasonable measure, but public service
sometimes has bottom lines that require services to be provided that
are not totally commercial.
RNZ Concert is not in any way commercial and neither should it be.
Post by Rich80105
It is clear that final decisions have
_not_ been made, despite presumptions from the usual idiots. I haven't
seen anything from Melissa Lee (Broadcasting) or Nicky Wagner (Arts,
Culture and Heritage) - fair enough really as most Broadcasting staff
involved were probably appointed during their time in government.
More political rhetoric, how about concentrating on the value or otherwise of
RNZ Concert?
Sure, just what value do you think it has - and don't be stupid about
the money; if nobody is listening then we cannot afford it. I believe
there is value in delivering a wide variety of music through the
various RNZ platforms, and I believe there is a responsibility to
deliver programmes which educate about music as well as enabling us to
listen to music that would otherwise be hard to obtain - but to use
the Archives analogy, most of the music on Concert Radio can be
streamed from various sources. The reality is that Radio NZ see the
need to reduce staff by about 30, with a smaller number being employed
on the new youth venture. That is a money issue. If you really believe
we should be spending more and retainng those staff (some of whom are
specialists that would be hard to replace, the question is then how it
is to be funded. Would you be prepared to have an increase in income
tax to fund it, Tony? Or do you want to a few people in poverty to
meet your feel-good needs?
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
I believe some changes are probably necessary
Why
Post by Rich80105
but I know that if the
changes are made the reduction in broadcasting of New Zealand artists
will affect our ability to develop and appreciate local talent.
It is not merely about NZ artists it is much more about culture which includes
the World's artists.
Tony
2020-02-08 21:24:54 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 07 Feb 2020 20:39:02 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 07 Feb 2020 18:42:16 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Snipped for brevity
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Agreed, and it also explains why I also do not see this as a National
/ Labour issue. We do however have a problem with our media who leap
to cheap conclusions far too often, putting priorities on conflict
over considered thought.
The review is wider than many realise;
This indicates it is not about money -
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/119346104/youth-radio-killed-the-classical-star
I believe it has a long way to
go, and you are correct that Concert Radio is a small part of a larger
issue - rushes to judgement at this stage are natural but inevitably
disappointing . . .
Making a judgement about this announcement is certainly not rushing and
if
you
are disappointed in the judgement then you are presumably happy with the
removal of one of the few classical outlets in broadcasting, an outlet
that
is
far more popular than most people believe.
If anything has been rushed it is this decision that Faafoi now sees is
upsetting many people.
Thre have certainly been recommendations, but I am not aware of any
decisions - can you give any evidence to support that?
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/119346104/youth-radio-killed-the-classical-star
"We learned on Wednesday that RNZ plans to charge ahead with what it
calls
"the
biggest overhaul of its music services in years" and it plans to do it very
soon. "
"RNZ expects to have its long-established classical music station
Concert
FM
off air by the end of May"
That is not a proposal, that is a decision. Ministerial intervention should
occur now to make this decision go away so that at the very least proper
consultation with the real stakeholders can occur.
Still no evidence that this is money related.
In terms of proportionality - i.e. cost per listener - to any beancounter
Concert in its current form is insupportable. OK, yes, it always has been as I
for one know full well having been at the centre of its core technical
operations for many years. But the jig is now up. Today is the day of
reckoning when a societal good must, it seems, kneel to the economic facts of
21st century life.
Toby Manhire reports: "Twenty positions are to go as of March 25. They include
12 RNZ Concert roles and eight that span National or RNZ as a whole, including
producers and librarians. There would be four redeployments among those,
and
a
dozen new roles on the “new RNZ music brandâ€?, all based in Auckland."
https://thespinoff.co.nz/media/07-02-2020/rnz-is-overhauling-its-music-network-and-a-lot-of-people-are-mad-as-hell-about-it/
https://publicaddress.net/hardnews/rage-and-change-rnzs-music-problem/
Both Manhire and Brown are not to be lightly dismissed; both have plumbed the
essence of it at some length, and not before time in my view.
I left the broadcasting industry more than 10 years ago, so even now for
me
as
for countless others, this is a highly emotive and emotional issue.
Nevertheless, I'm trying to address it as dispassionately as I can because by
and large I've always been acutely conscious of the inevitable conflict between
harsh economic reality and the public good; whereas I can tell you others
involved in the outfit have been anything but having become so embedded and
institutionalised as to be beyond all persuasion or redemption.
To their great credit, though, every single one of them has been dedicated way
and beyond the call of duty while working almost the ambience of a
yet-to-mature overall national mindset that still harbours a derision and
dismissiveness for anything even remotely smacking of intellectualism or
elitism.
For them - every one of them - this axe-blow to their unique skills and
dearly-held core values will amount to nothing less than a living bereavement,
even for those nearing retirement.
I don't argue with that.
Some things however are worth the cost.
I believe that this is one of those things.
You cannot really put a value on culture (an often overused word but
appropriate here).
Arguably our defence force is unaffordable, as is our welfare system, as are
"free" hospitals etc. Those things may well be more important than RNZ concert
but replacing that with music for younger people and some parliament broadcasts
(both of which are well catered for already) is a slap in the face and I
believe probably an excuse. Additionally the 170,000 weekly listeners were not
consulted apparently; no doubt because "we know what they will say so let's not
bother".
This one is worth a fight and I hope that happens.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/savernzconcert/?fref=nf
This covers a number of issues - including the reductions in funding
for RNZ over the period of the previous government.
You can't avoid it can you?
This is not about poltical points, it is about art!
Post by Rich80105
. Looking for
numbers of listeners is a reasonable measure, but public service
sometimes has bottom lines that require services to be provided that
are not totally commercial.
RNZ Concert is not in any way commercial and neither should it be.
Post by Rich80105
It is clear that final decisions have
_not_ been made, despite presumptions from the usual idiots. I haven't
seen anything from Melissa Lee (Broadcasting) or Nicky Wagner (Arts,
Culture and Heritage) - fair enough really as most Broadcasting staff
involved were probably appointed during their time in government.
More political rhetoric, how about concentrating on the value or otherwise of
RNZ Concert?
Sure, just what value do you think it has - and don't be stupid about
the money; if nobody is listening then we cannot afford it.
170,000 people a week is not nobody, and we can afford it now. You are assuming
it is a money issue, nobody has confirmed that, So don't be stupid about the
money OK?
Post by Rich80105
I believe
there is value in delivering a wide variety of music through the
various RNZ platforms, and I believe there is a responsibility to
deliver programmes which educate about music as well as enabling us to
listen to music that would otherwise be hard to obtain - but to use
the Archives analogy, most of the music on Concert Radio can be
streamed from various sources.
Irrelevant drivel. All of those things exist now for all manner of music
including youth needs which is better covered than any other genre on line.
Post by Rich80105
The reality is that Radio NZ see the
need to reduce staff by about 30, with a smaller number being employed
on the new youth venture. That is a money issue.
Rubbish, they have not stated either of those things. You are making it up.
Post by Rich80105
If you really believe
we should be spending more and retainng those staff (some of whom are
specialists that would be hard to replace, the question is then how it
is to be funded. Would you be prepared to have an increase in income
tax to fund it, Tony? Or do you want to a few people in poverty to
meet your feel-good needs?
You loathsome man. I am not saying we should spend more (why do you tell such
obvious childish lies?), I have not said that and music is not feel good for
anybody with an ounce of understanding, it is the most popular art form in
humanity by a long way.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
I believe some changes are probably necessary
Why
Post by Rich80105
but I know that if the
changes are made the reduction in broadcasting of New Zealand artists
will affect our ability to develop and appreciate local talent.
It is not merely about NZ artists it is much more about culture which includes
the World's artists.
Tony
2020-02-09 21:58:42 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 07 Feb 2020 20:39:02 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 07 Feb 2020 18:42:16 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Snipped for brevity
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Agreed, and it also explains why I also do not see this as a National
/ Labour issue. We do however have a problem with our media who leap
to cheap conclusions far too often, putting priorities on conflict
over considered thought.
The review is wider than many realise;
This indicates it is not about money -
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/119346104/youth-radio-killed-the-classical-star
I believe it has a long way to
go, and you are correct that Concert Radio is a small part of a larger
issue - rushes to judgement at this stage are natural but inevitably
disappointing . . .
Making a judgement about this announcement is certainly not rushing and
if
you
are disappointed in the judgement then you are presumably happy with the
removal of one of the few classical outlets in broadcasting, an outlet
that
is
far more popular than most people believe.
If anything has been rushed it is this decision that Faafoi now sees is
upsetting many people.
Thre have certainly been recommendations, but I am not aware of any
decisions - can you give any evidence to support that?
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/119346104/youth-radio-killed-the-classical-star
"We learned on Wednesday that RNZ plans to charge ahead with what it
calls
"the
biggest overhaul of its music services in years" and it plans to do it very
soon. "
"RNZ expects to have its long-established classical music station
Concert
FM
off air by the end of May"
That is not a proposal, that is a decision. Ministerial intervention should
occur now to make this decision go away so that at the very least proper
consultation with the real stakeholders can occur.
Still no evidence that this is money related.
In terms of proportionality - i.e. cost per listener - to any beancounter
Concert in its current form is insupportable. OK, yes, it always has been as I
for one know full well having been at the centre of its core technical
operations for many years. But the jig is now up. Today is the day of
reckoning when a societal good must, it seems, kneel to the economic facts of
21st century life.
Toby Manhire reports: "Twenty positions are to go as of March 25. They include
12 RNZ Concert roles and eight that span National or RNZ as a whole, including
producers and librarians. There would be four redeployments among those,
and
a
dozen new roles on the “new RNZ music brandâ€?, all based in Auckland."
https://thespinoff.co.nz/media/07-02-2020/rnz-is-overhauling-its-music-network-and-a-lot-of-people-are-mad-as-hell-about-it/
https://publicaddress.net/hardnews/rage-and-change-rnzs-music-problem/
Both Manhire and Brown are not to be lightly dismissed; both have plumbed the
essence of it at some length, and not before time in my view.
I left the broadcasting industry more than 10 years ago, so even now for
me
as
for countless others, this is a highly emotive and emotional issue.
Nevertheless, I'm trying to address it as dispassionately as I can because by
and large I've always been acutely conscious of the inevitable conflict between
harsh economic reality and the public good; whereas I can tell you others
involved in the outfit have been anything but having become so embedded and
institutionalised as to be beyond all persuasion or redemption.
To their great credit, though, every single one of them has been dedicated way
and beyond the call of duty while working almost the ambience of a
yet-to-mature overall national mindset that still harbours a derision and
dismissiveness for anything even remotely smacking of intellectualism or
elitism.
For them - every one of them - this axe-blow to their unique skills and
dearly-held core values will amount to nothing less than a living bereavement,
even for those nearing retirement.
I don't argue with that.
Some things however are worth the cost.
I believe that this is one of those things.
You cannot really put a value on culture (an often overused word but
appropriate here).
Arguably our defence force is unaffordable, as is our welfare system, as are
"free" hospitals etc. Those things may well be more important than RNZ concert
but replacing that with music for younger people and some parliament broadcasts
(both of which are well catered for already) is a slap in the face and I
believe probably an excuse. Additionally the 170,000 weekly listeners were not
consulted apparently; no doubt because "we know what they will say so let's not
bother".
This one is worth a fight and I hope that happens.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/savernzconcert/?fref=nf
This covers a number of issues - including the reductions in funding
for RNZ over the period of the previous government.
You can't avoid it can you?
This is not about poltical points, it is about art!
Post by Rich80105
. Looking for
numbers of listeners is a reasonable measure, but public service
sometimes has bottom lines that require services to be provided that
are not totally commercial.
RNZ Concert is not in any way commercial and neither should it be.
Post by Rich80105
It is clear that final decisions have
_not_ been made, despite presumptions from the usual idiots. I haven't
seen anything from Melissa Lee (Broadcasting) or Nicky Wagner (Arts,
Culture and Heritage) - fair enough really as most Broadcasting staff
involved were probably appointed during their time in government.
More political rhetoric, how about concentrating on the value or otherwise of
RNZ Concert?
Sure, just what value do you think it has - and don't be stupid about
the money; if nobody is listening then we cannot afford it. I believe
there is value in delivering a wide variety of music through the
various RNZ platforms, and I believe there is a responsibility to
deliver programmes which educate about music as well as enabling us to
listen to music that would otherwise be hard to obtain - but to use
the Archives analogy, most of the music on Concert Radio can be
streamed from various sources. The reality is that Radio NZ see the
need to reduce staff by about 30, with a smaller number being employed
on the new youth venture. That is a money issue. If you really believe
we should be spending more and retainng those staff (some of whom are
specialists that would be hard to replace, the question is then how it
is to be funded. Would you be prepared to have an increase in income
tax to fund it, Tony? Or do you want to a few people in poverty to
meet your feel-good needs?
Just read this you abusive twit.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/119386335/jacinda-ardern-on-rnz-concert-changes-we-dont-have-to-lose-one-for-the-other
Nothing to do with money and in defiance of government wishes.
Maybe the PM and Faafoi will fix it, it needs to be done.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
I believe some changes are probably necessary
Why
Post by Rich80105
but I know that if the
changes are made the reduction in broadcasting of New Zealand artists
will affect our ability to develop and appreciate local talent.
It is not merely about NZ artists it is much more about culture which includes
the World's artists.
Tony
2020-02-10 02:14:15 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 07 Feb 2020 20:39:02 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 07 Feb 2020 18:42:16 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Snipped for brevity
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Agreed, and it also explains why I also do not see this as a National
/ Labour issue. We do however have a problem with our media who leap
to cheap conclusions far too often, putting priorities on conflict
over considered thought.
The review is wider than many realise;
This indicates it is not about money -
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/119346104/youth-radio-killed-the-classical-star
I believe it has a long way to
go, and you are correct that Concert Radio is a small part of a larger
issue - rushes to judgement at this stage are natural but inevitably
disappointing . . .
Making a judgement about this announcement is certainly not rushing and
if
you
are disappointed in the judgement then you are presumably happy with the
removal of one of the few classical outlets in broadcasting, an outlet
that
is
far more popular than most people believe.
If anything has been rushed it is this decision that Faafoi now sees is
upsetting many people.
Thre have certainly been recommendations, but I am not aware of any
decisions - can you give any evidence to support that?
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/119346104/youth-radio-killed-the-classical-star
"We learned on Wednesday that RNZ plans to charge ahead with what it
calls
"the
biggest overhaul of its music services in years" and it plans to do it very
soon. "
"RNZ expects to have its long-established classical music station
Concert
FM
off air by the end of May"
That is not a proposal, that is a decision. Ministerial intervention should
occur now to make this decision go away so that at the very least proper
consultation with the real stakeholders can occur.
Still no evidence that this is money related.
In terms of proportionality - i.e. cost per listener - to any beancounter
Concert in its current form is insupportable. OK, yes, it always has
been
as I
for one know full well having been at the centre of its core technical
operations for many years. But the jig is now up. Today is the day of
reckoning when a societal good must, it seems, kneel to the economic
facts
of
21st century life.
Toby Manhire reports: "Twenty positions are to go as of March 25. They include
12 RNZ Concert roles and eight that span National or RNZ as a whole, including
producers and librarians. There would be four redeployments among those,
and
a
dozen new roles on the “new RNZ music brandâ€?, all based in Auckland."
https://thespinoff.co.nz/media/07-02-2020/rnz-is-overhauling-its-music-network-and-a-lot-of-people-are-mad-as-hell-about-it/
https://publicaddress.net/hardnews/rage-and-change-rnzs-music-problem/
Both Manhire and Brown are not to be lightly dismissed; both have plumbed the
essence of it at some length, and not before time in my view.
I left the broadcasting industry more than 10 years ago, so even now for
me
as
for countless others, this is a highly emotive and emotional issue.
Nevertheless, I'm trying to address it as dispassionately as I can
because
by
and large I've always been acutely conscious of the inevitable conflict between
harsh economic reality and the public good; whereas I can tell you others
involved in the outfit have been anything but having become so embedded and
institutionalised as to be beyond all persuasion or redemption.
To their great credit, though, every single one of them has been
dedicated
way
and beyond the call of duty while working almost the ambience of a
yet-to-mature overall national mindset that still harbours a derision and
dismissiveness for anything even remotely smacking of intellectualism or
elitism.
For them - every one of them - this axe-blow to their unique skills and
dearly-held core values will amount to nothing less than a living bereavement,
even for those nearing retirement.
I don't argue with that.
Some things however are worth the cost.
I believe that this is one of those things.
You cannot really put a value on culture (an often overused word but
appropriate here).
Arguably our defence force is unaffordable, as is our welfare system, as are
"free" hospitals etc. Those things may well be more important than RNZ concert
but replacing that with music for younger people and some parliament broadcasts
(both of which are well catered for already) is a slap in the face and I
believe probably an excuse. Additionally the 170,000 weekly listeners were not
consulted apparently; no doubt because "we know what they will say so
let's
not
bother".
This one is worth a fight and I hope that happens.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/savernzconcert/?fref=nf
This covers a number of issues - including the reductions in funding
for RNZ over the period of the previous government.
You can't avoid it can you?
This is not about poltical points, it is about art!
Post by Rich80105
. Looking for
numbers of listeners is a reasonable measure, but public service
sometimes has bottom lines that require services to be provided that
are not totally commercial.
RNZ Concert is not in any way commercial and neither should it be.
Post by Rich80105
It is clear that final decisions have
_not_ been made, despite presumptions from the usual idiots. I haven't
seen anything from Melissa Lee (Broadcasting) or Nicky Wagner (Arts,
Culture and Heritage) - fair enough really as most Broadcasting staff
involved were probably appointed during their time in government.
More political rhetoric, how about concentrating on the value or otherwise of
RNZ Concert?
Sure, just what value do you think it has - and don't be stupid about
the money; if nobody is listening then we cannot afford it. I believe
there is value in delivering a wide variety of music through the
various RNZ platforms, and I believe there is a responsibility to
deliver programmes which educate about music as well as enabling us to
listen to music that would otherwise be hard to obtain - but to use
the Archives analogy, most of the music on Concert Radio can be
streamed from various sources. The reality is that Radio NZ see the
need to reduce staff by about 30, with a smaller number being employed
on the new youth venture. That is a money issue. If you really believe
we should be spending more and retainng those staff (some of whom are
specialists that would be hard to replace, the question is then how it
is to be funded. Would you be prepared to have an increase in income
tax to fund it, Tony? Or do you want to a few people in poverty to
meet your feel-good needs?
Just read this you abusive twit.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/119386335/jacinda-ardern-on-rnz-concert-changes-we-dont-have-to-lose-one-for-the-other
Nothing to do with money and in defiance of government wishes.
Maybe the PM and Faafoi will fix it, it needs to be done.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
I believe some changes are probably necessary
Why
Post by Rich80105
but I know that if the
changes are made the reduction in broadcasting of New Zealand artists
will affect our ability to develop and appreciate local talent.
It is not merely about NZ artists it is much more about culture which includes
the World's artists.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/arts/119395756/prominent-lawyers-prepare-legal-battle-against-rnz-in-attempt-to-save-concert
Demonstrates the lack of understanding by those who are trying to defend RNZ on
this disgraceful matter.
James Christophers
2020-02-10 02:55:03 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 07 Feb 2020 20:39:02 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 07 Feb 2020 18:42:16 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Snipped for brevity
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Agreed, and it also explains why I also do not see this as a National
/ Labour issue. We do however have a problem with our media who leap
to cheap conclusions far too often, putting priorities on conflict
over considered thought.
The review is wider than many realise;
This indicates it is not about money -
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/119346104/youth-radio-killed-the-classical-star
I believe it has a long way to
go, and you are correct that Concert Radio is a small part of a
larger
issue - rushes to judgement at this stage are natural but inevitably
disappointing . . .
Making a judgement about this announcement is certainly not rushing and
if
you
are disappointed in the judgement then you are presumably happy with
the
removal of one of the few classical outlets in broadcasting, an outlet
that
is
far more popular than most people believe.
If anything has been rushed it is this decision that Faafoi now sees is
upsetting many people.
Thre have certainly been recommendations, but I am not aware of any
decisions - can you give any evidence to support that?
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/119346104/youth-radio-killed-the-classical-star
"We learned on Wednesday that RNZ plans to charge ahead with what it
calls
"the
biggest overhaul of its music services in years" and it plans to do it very
soon. "
"RNZ expects to have its long-established classical music station
Concert
FM
off air by the end of May"
That is not a proposal, that is a decision. Ministerial intervention should
occur now to make this decision go away so that at the very least proper
consultation with the real stakeholders can occur.
Still no evidence that this is money related.
In terms of proportionality - i.e. cost per listener - to any beancounter
Concert in its current form is insupportable. OK, yes, it always has
been
as I
for one know full well having been at the centre of its core technical
operations for many years. But the jig is now up. Today is the day of
reckoning when a societal good must, it seems, kneel to the economic
facts
of
21st century life.
Toby Manhire reports: "Twenty positions are to go as of March 25. They include
12 RNZ Concert roles and eight that span National or RNZ as a whole, including
producers and librarians. There would be four redeployments among those,
and
a
dozen new roles on the “new RNZ music brand�€?, all based in Auckland."
https://thespinoff.co.nz/media/07-02-2020/rnz-is-overhauling-its-music-network-and-a-lot-of-people-are-mad-as-hell-about-it/
https://publicaddress.net/hardnews/rage-and-change-rnzs-music-problem/
Both Manhire and Brown are not to be lightly dismissed; both have plumbed the
essence of it at some length, and not before time in my view.
I left the broadcasting industry more than 10 years ago, so even now for
me
as
for countless others, this is a highly emotive and emotional issue.
Nevertheless, I'm trying to address it as dispassionately as I can
because
by
and large I've always been acutely conscious of the inevitable conflict between
harsh economic reality and the public good; whereas I can tell you others
involved in the outfit have been anything but having become so embedded and
institutionalised as to be beyond all persuasion or redemption.
To their great credit, though, every single one of them has been
dedicated
way
and beyond the call of duty while working almost the ambience of a
yet-to-mature overall national mindset that still harbours a derision and
dismissiveness for anything even remotely smacking of intellectualism or
elitism.
For them - every one of them - this axe-blow to their unique skills and
dearly-held core values will amount to nothing less than a living bereavement,
even for those nearing retirement.
I don't argue with that.
Some things however are worth the cost.
I believe that this is one of those things.
You cannot really put a value on culture (an often overused word but
appropriate here).
Arguably our defence force is unaffordable, as is our welfare system, as are
"free" hospitals etc. Those things may well be more important than RNZ concert
but replacing that with music for younger people and some parliament broadcasts
(both of which are well catered for already) is a slap in the face and I
believe probably an excuse. Additionally the 170,000 weekly listeners were not
consulted apparently; no doubt because "we know what they will say so
let's
not
bother".
This one is worth a fight and I hope that happens.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/savernzconcert/?fref=nf
This covers a number of issues - including the reductions in funding
for RNZ over the period of the previous government.
You can't avoid it can you?
This is not about poltical points, it is about art!
Post by Rich80105
. Looking for
numbers of listeners is a reasonable measure, but public service
sometimes has bottom lines that require services to be provided that
are not totally commercial.
RNZ Concert is not in any way commercial and neither should it be.
Post by Rich80105
It is clear that final decisions have
_not_ been made, despite presumptions from the usual idiots. I haven't
seen anything from Melissa Lee (Broadcasting) or Nicky Wagner (Arts,
Culture and Heritage) - fair enough really as most Broadcasting staff
involved were probably appointed during their time in government.
More political rhetoric, how about concentrating on the value or otherwise of
RNZ Concert?
Sure, just what value do you think it has - and don't be stupid about
the money; if nobody is listening then we cannot afford it. I believe
there is value in delivering a wide variety of music through the
various RNZ platforms, and I believe there is a responsibility to
deliver programmes which educate about music as well as enabling us to
listen to music that would otherwise be hard to obtain - but to use
the Archives analogy, most of the music on Concert Radio can be
streamed from various sources. The reality is that Radio NZ see the
need to reduce staff by about 30, with a smaller number being employed
on the new youth venture. That is a money issue. If you really believe
we should be spending more and retainng those staff (some of whom are
specialists that would be hard to replace, the question is then how it
is to be funded. Would you be prepared to have an increase in income
tax to fund it, Tony? Or do you want to a few people in poverty to
meet your feel-good needs?
Just read this you abusive twit.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/119386335/jacinda-ardern-on-rnz-concert-changes-we-dont-have-to-lose-one-for-the-other
Nothing to do with money and in defiance of government wishes.
Maybe the PM and Faafoi will fix it, it needs to be done.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
I believe some changes are probably necessary
Why
Post by Rich80105
but I know that if the
changes are made the reduction in broadcasting of New Zealand artists
will affect our ability to develop and appreciate local talent.
It is not merely about NZ artists it is much more about culture which includes
the World's artists.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/arts/119395756/prominent-lawyers-prepare-legal-battle-against-rnz-in-attempt-to-save-concert
Demonstrates the lack of understanding by those who are trying to defend RNZ on
this disgraceful matter.
Thompson answers to the Board, not to the minister responsible. That's the job of Board Chairman Dr Jim Mather.

So, exactly what have we heard so far from the Chairman of the Radio New Zealand Board? Hmmmm...........

Again, is it too much to expect that Mather will deliver a full, meaningful, unambiguous **public** explanation of his chief executive's seemingly cavalier action? After all, Mather has been appointed top smell in an outfit that is specifically, exclusively mandated to perform and deliver a one-off - yes, unique - public service role in the nation's life.

Yet perhaps after the Christchurch meeting Mather will share his deepest thoughts and insightful deliberations with the great unwashed.

Should I hold my breath? You be the judge.

To me. unless Thompson enjoys some kind of authorised autonomy (does he?), such draconian behaviour smacks of a man exceeding his authority.

Some might even suggest that he's been "got at" by members of the political commercial lobby, but of course I couldn't possibly comment.
Tony
2020-02-10 04:06:22 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 07 Feb 2020 20:39:02 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 07 Feb 2020 18:42:16 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Snipped for brevity
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Agreed, and it also explains why I also do not see this as a
National
/ Labour issue. We do however have a problem with our media who
leap
to cheap conclusions far too often, putting priorities on conflict
over considered thought.
The review is wider than many realise;
This indicates it is not about money -
Post by Rich80105
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by Tony
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/119346104/youth-radio-killed-the-classical-star
I believe it has a long way to
go, and you are correct that Concert Radio is a small part of a
larger
issue - rushes to judgement at this stage are natural but
inevitably
disappointing . . .
Making a judgement about this announcement is certainly not
rushing
and
if
you
are disappointed in the judgement then you are presumably happy with
the
removal of one of the few classical outlets in broadcasting, an
outlet
that
is
far more popular than most people believe.
If anything has been rushed it is this decision that Faafoi now
sees
is
upsetting many people.
Thre have certainly been recommendations, but I am not aware of any
decisions - can you give any evidence to support that?
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/119346104/youth-radio-killed-the-classical-star
"We learned on Wednesday that RNZ plans to charge ahead with what it
calls
"the
biggest overhaul of its music services in years" and it plans to do
it
very
soon. "
"RNZ expects to have its long-established classical music station
Concert
FM
off air by the end of May"
That is not a proposal, that is a decision. Ministerial intervention
should
occur now to make this decision go away so that at the very least proper
consultation with the real stakeholders can occur.
Still no evidence that this is money related.
In terms of proportionality - i.e. cost per listener - to any beancounter
Concert in its current form is insupportable. OK, yes, it always has
been
as I
for one know full well having been at the centre of its core technical
operations for many years. But the jig is now up. Today is the day of
reckoning when a societal good must, it seems, kneel to the economic
facts
of
21st century life.
Toby Manhire reports: "Twenty positions are to go as of March 25. They
include
12 RNZ Concert roles and eight that span National or RNZ as a whole,
including
producers and librarians. There would be four redeployments among those,
and
a
dozen new roles on the “new RNZ music brandᅵ€?, all based in
Auckland."
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by James Christophers
https://thespinoff.co.nz/media/07-02-2020/rnz-is-overhauling-its-music-network-and-a-lot-of-people-are-mad-as-hell-about-it/
https://publicaddress.net/hardnews/rage-and-change-rnzs-music-problem/
Both Manhire and Brown are not to be lightly dismissed; both have
plumbed
the
essence of it at some length, and not before time in my view.
I left the broadcasting industry more than 10 years ago, so even now for
me
as
for countless others, this is a highly emotive and emotional issue.
Nevertheless, I'm trying to address it as dispassionately as I can
because
by
and large I've always been acutely conscious of the inevitable
conflict
between
harsh economic reality and the public good; whereas I can tell you others
involved in the outfit have been anything but having become so
embedded
and
institutionalised as to be beyond all persuasion or redemption.
To their great credit, though, every single one of them has been
dedicated
way
and beyond the call of duty while working almost the ambience of a
yet-to-mature overall national mindset that still harbours a derision and
dismissiveness for anything even remotely smacking of intellectualism or
elitism.
For them - every one of them - this axe-blow to their unique skills and
dearly-held core values will amount to nothing less than a living
bereavement,
even for those nearing retirement.
I don't argue with that.
Some things however are worth the cost.
I believe that this is one of those things.
You cannot really put a value on culture (an often overused word but
appropriate here).
Arguably our defence force is unaffordable, as is our welfare system,
as
are
"free" hospitals etc. Those things may well be more important than RNZ concert
but replacing that with music for younger people and some parliament broadcasts
(both of which are well catered for already) is a slap in the face and I
believe probably an excuse. Additionally the 170,000 weekly listeners
were
not
consulted apparently; no doubt because "we know what they will say so
let's
not
bother".
This one is worth a fight and I hope that happens.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/savernzconcert/?fref=nf
This covers a number of issues - including the reductions in funding
for RNZ over the period of the previous government.
You can't avoid it can you?
This is not about poltical points, it is about art!
Post by Rich80105
. Looking for
numbers of listeners is a reasonable measure, but public service
sometimes has bottom lines that require services to be provided that
are not totally commercial.
RNZ Concert is not in any way commercial and neither should it be.
Post by Rich80105
It is clear that final decisions have
_not_ been made, despite presumptions from the usual idiots. I haven't
seen anything from Melissa Lee (Broadcasting) or Nicky Wagner (Arts,
Culture and Heritage) - fair enough really as most Broadcasting staff
involved were probably appointed during their time in government.
More political rhetoric, how about concentrating on the value or
otherwise
of
RNZ Concert?
Sure, just what value do you think it has - and don't be stupid about
the money; if nobody is listening then we cannot afford it. I believe
there is value in delivering a wide variety of music through the
various RNZ platforms, and I believe there is a responsibility to
deliver programmes which educate about music as well as enabling us to
listen to music that would otherwise be hard to obtain - but to use
the Archives analogy, most of the music on Concert Radio can be
streamed from various sources. The reality is that Radio NZ see the
need to reduce staff by about 30, with a smaller number being employed
on the new youth venture. That is a money issue. If you really believe
we should be spending more and retainng those staff (some of whom are
specialists that would be hard to replace, the question is then how it
is to be funded. Would you be prepared to have an increase in income
tax to fund it, Tony? Or do you want to a few people in poverty to
meet your feel-good needs?
Just read this you abusive twit.
Post by Rich80105
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/119386335/jacinda-ardern-on-rnz-concert-changes-we-dont-have-to-lose-one-for-the-other
Nothing to do with money and in defiance of government wishes.
Maybe the PM and Faafoi will fix it, it needs to be done.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
I believe some changes are probably necessary
Why
Post by Rich80105
but I know that if the
changes are made the reduction in broadcasting of New Zealand artists
will affect our ability to develop and appreciate local talent.
It is not merely about NZ artists it is much more about culture which includes
the World's artists.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/arts/119395756/prominent-lawyers-prepare-legal-battle-against-rnz-in-attempt-to-save-concert
Demonstrates the lack of understanding by those who are trying to defend RNZ on
this disgraceful matter.
Thompson answers to the Board, not to the minister responsible. That's the
job of Board Chairman Dr Jim Mather.
So, exactly what have we heard so far from the Chairman of the Radio New
Zealand Board? Hmmmm...........
Again, is it too much to expect that Mather will deliver a full, meaningful,
unambiguous **public** explanation of his chief executive's seemingly cavalier
action? After all, Mather has been appointed top smell in an outfit that is
specifically, exclusively mandated to perform and deliver a one-off - yes,
unique - public service role in the nation's life.
Yet perhaps after the Christchurch meeting Mather will share his deepest
thoughts and insightful deliberations with the great unwashed.
Should I hold my breath? You be the judge.
To me. unless Thompson enjoys some kind of authorised autonomy (does he?),
such draconian behaviour smacks of a man exceeding his authority.
Some might even suggest that he's been "got at" by members of the political
commercial lobby, but of course I couldn't possibly comment.
And now
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/119403097/government-to-free-up-fm-frequency-to-keep-rnz-concert
Time for the government to tell their Crown Entity to think more, talk to all
of their stakeholders and their bosses before doing silly things. Maybe that is
now happening.
Rich80105
2020-02-10 06:15:40 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Sun, 09 Feb 2020 22:06:22 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 07 Feb 2020 20:39:02 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 07 Feb 2020 18:42:16 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Snipped for brevity
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Agreed, and it also explains why I also do not see this as a
National
/ Labour issue. We do however have a problem with our media who
leap
to cheap conclusions far too often, putting priorities on conflict
over considered thought.
The review is wider than many realise;
This indicates it is not about money -
Post by Rich80105
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by Tony
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/119346104/youth-radio-killed-the-classical-star
I believe it has a long way to
go, and you are correct that Concert Radio is a small part of a
larger
issue - rushes to judgement at this stage are natural but
inevitably
disappointing . . .
Making a judgement about this announcement is certainly not
rushing
and
if
you
are disappointed in the judgement then you are presumably happy
with
the
removal of one of the few classical outlets in broadcasting, an
outlet
that
is
far more popular than most people believe.
If anything has been rushed it is this decision that Faafoi now
sees
is
upsetting many people.
Thre have certainly been recommendations, but I am not aware of any
decisions - can you give any evidence to support that?
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/119346104/youth-radio-killed-the-classical-star
"We learned on Wednesday that RNZ plans to charge ahead with what it
calls
"the
biggest overhaul of its music services in years" and it plans to do
it
very
soon. "
"RNZ expects to have its long-established classical music station
Concert
FM
off air by the end of May"
That is not a proposal, that is a decision. Ministerial intervention
should
occur now to make this decision go away so that at the very least proper
consultation with the real stakeholders can occur.
Still no evidence that this is money related.
In terms of proportionality - i.e. cost per listener - to any beancounter
Concert in its current form is insupportable. OK, yes, it always has
been
as I
for one know full well having been at the centre of its core technical
operations for many years. But the jig is now up. Today is the day of
reckoning when a societal good must, it seems, kneel to the economic
facts
of
21st century life.
Toby Manhire reports: "Twenty positions are to go as of March 25. They
include
12 RNZ Concert roles and eight that span National or RNZ as a whole,
including
producers and librarians. There would be four redeployments among those,
and
a
dozen new roles on the “new RNZ music brand�€?, all based in
Auckland."
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by James Christophers
https://thespinoff.co.nz/media/07-02-2020/rnz-is-overhauling-its-music-network-and-a-lot-of-people-are-mad-as-hell-about-it/
https://publicaddress.net/hardnews/rage-and-change-rnzs-music-problem/
Both Manhire and Brown are not to be lightly dismissed; both have
plumbed
the
essence of it at some length, and not before time in my view.
I left the broadcasting industry more than 10 years ago, so even now for
me
as
for countless others, this is a highly emotive and emotional issue.
Nevertheless, I'm trying to address it as dispassionately as I can
because
by
and large I've always been acutely conscious of the inevitable
conflict
between
harsh economic reality and the public good; whereas I can tell you others
involved in the outfit have been anything but having become so
embedded
and
institutionalised as to be beyond all persuasion or redemption.
To their great credit, though, every single one of them has been
dedicated
way
and beyond the call of duty while working almost the ambience of a
yet-to-mature overall national mindset that still harbours a derision and
dismissiveness for anything even remotely smacking of intellectualism or
elitism.
For them - every one of them - this axe-blow to their unique skills and
dearly-held core values will amount to nothing less than a living
bereavement,
even for those nearing retirement.
I don't argue with that.
Some things however are worth the cost.
I believe that this is one of those things.
You cannot really put a value on culture (an often overused word but
appropriate here).
Arguably our defence force is unaffordable, as is our welfare system,
as
are
"free" hospitals etc. Those things may well be more important than RNZ
concert
but replacing that with music for younger people and some parliament
broadcasts
(both of which are well catered for already) is a slap in the face and I
believe probably an excuse. Additionally the 170,000 weekly listeners
were
not
consulted apparently; no doubt because "we know what they will say so
let's
not
bother".
This one is worth a fight and I hope that happens.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/savernzconcert/?fref=nf
This covers a number of issues - including the reductions in funding
for RNZ over the period of the previous government.
You can't avoid it can you?
This is not about poltical points, it is about art!
Post by Rich80105
. Looking for
numbers of listeners is a reasonable measure, but public service
sometimes has bottom lines that require services to be provided that
are not totally commercial.
RNZ Concert is not in any way commercial and neither should it be.
Post by Rich80105
It is clear that final decisions have
_not_ been made, despite presumptions from the usual idiots. I haven't
seen anything from Melissa Lee (Broadcasting) or Nicky Wagner (Arts,
Culture and Heritage) - fair enough really as most Broadcasting staff
involved were probably appointed during their time in government.
More political rhetoric, how about concentrating on the value or
otherwise
of
RNZ Concert?
Sure, just what value do you think it has - and don't be stupid about
the money; if nobody is listening then we cannot afford it. I believe
there is value in delivering a wide variety of music through the
various RNZ platforms, and I believe there is a responsibility to
deliver programmes which educate about music as well as enabling us to
listen to music that would otherwise be hard to obtain - but to use
the Archives analogy, most of the music on Concert Radio can be
streamed from various sources. The reality is that Radio NZ see the
need to reduce staff by about 30, with a smaller number being employed
on the new youth venture. That is a money issue. If you really believe
we should be spending more and retainng those staff (some of whom are
specialists that would be hard to replace, the question is then how it
is to be funded. Would you be prepared to have an increase in income
tax to fund it, Tony? Or do you want to a few people in poverty to
meet your feel-good needs?
Just read this you abusive twit.
Post by Rich80105
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/119386335/jacinda-ardern-on-rnz-concert-changes-we-dont-have-to-lose-one-for-the-other
Nothing to do with money and in defiance of government wishes.
Maybe the PM and Faafoi will fix it, it needs to be done.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
I believe some changes are probably necessary
Why
Post by Rich80105
but I know that if the
changes are made the reduction in broadcasting of New Zealand artists
will affect our ability to develop and appreciate local talent.
It is not merely about NZ artists it is much more about culture which includes
the World's artists.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/arts/119395756/prominent-lawyers-prepare-legal-battle-against-rnz-in-attempt-to-save-concert
Demonstrates the lack of understanding by those who are trying to defend RNZ on
this disgraceful matter.
Thompson answers to the Board, not to the minister responsible. That's the
job of Board Chairman Dr Jim Mather.
So, exactly what have we heard so far from the Chairman of the Radio New
Zealand Board? Hmmmm...........
Again, is it too much to expect that Mather will deliver a full, meaningful,
unambiguous **public** explanation of his chief executive's seemingly cavalier
action? After all, Mather has been appointed top smell in an outfit that is
specifically, exclusively mandated to perform and deliver a one-off - yes,
unique - public service role in the nation's life.
Yet perhaps after the Christchurch meeting Mather will share his deepest
thoughts and insightful deliberations with the great unwashed.
Should I hold my breath? You be the judge.
To me. unless Thompson enjoys some kind of authorised autonomy (does he?),
such draconian behaviour smacks of a man exceeding his authority.
Some might even suggest that he's been "got at" by members of the political
commercial lobby, but of course I couldn't possibly comment.
And now
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/119403097/government-to-free-up-fm-frequency-to-keep-rnz-concert
Time for the government to tell their Crown Entity to think more, talk to all
of their stakeholders and their bosses before doing silly things. Maybe that is
now happening.
These processes do take time, but it is good that you are asking for
intervention immediately following evidence that intervention has
already happened. I argued above that all the rushes to judgement and
calls for "decisions" to be reversed were premature; my faith has been
well justified.
Tony
2020-02-10 06:27:29 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Sun, 09 Feb 2020 22:06:22 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 07 Feb 2020 20:39:02 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 07 Feb 2020 18:42:16 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Snipped for brevity
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Agreed, and it also explains why I also do not see this as a
National
/ Labour issue. We do however have a problem with our media who
leap
to cheap conclusions far too often, putting priorities on
conflict
over considered thought.
The review is wider than many realise;
This indicates it is not about money -
Post by Rich80105
Post by James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by Tony
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/119346104/youth-radio-killed-the-classical-star
I believe it has a long way to
go, and you are correct that Concert Radio is a small part of a
larger
issue - rushes to judgement at this stage are natural but
inevitably
disappointing . . .
Making a judgement about this announcement is certainly not
rushing
and
if
you
are disappointed in the judgement then you are presumably happy
with
the
removal of one of the few classical outlets in broadcasting, an
outlet
that
is
far more popular than most people believe.
If anything has been rushed it is this decision that Faafoi now
sees
is
upsetting many people.
Thre have certainly been recommendations, but I am not aware of any
decisions - can you give any evidence to support that?
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/119346104/youth-radio-killed-the-classical-star
"We learned on Wednesday that RNZ plans to charge ahead with what it
calls
"the
biggest overhaul of its music services in years" and it plans to do
it
very
soon. "
"RNZ expects to have its long-established classical music station
Concert
FM
off air by the end of May"
That is not a proposal, that is a decision. Ministerial intervention
should
occur now to make this decision go away so that at the very least
proper
consultation with the real stakeholders can occur.
Still no evidence that this is money related.
In terms of proportionality - i.e. cost per listener - to any beancounter
Concert in its current form is insupportable. OK, yes, it always has
been
as I
for one know full well having been at the centre of its core technical
operations for many years. But the jig is now up. Today is the day of
reckoning when a societal good must, it seems, kneel to the economic
facts
of
21st century life.
Toby Manhire reports: "Twenty positions are to go as of March 25. They
include
12 RNZ Concert roles and eight that span National or RNZ as a whole,
including
producers and librarians. There would be four redeployments among those,
and
a
dozen new roles on the “new RNZ music brandᅵ€?, all based in
Auckland."
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
https://thespinoff.co.nz/media/07-02-2020/rnz-is-overhauling-its-music-network-and-a-lot-of-people-are-mad-as-hell-about-it/
https://publicaddress.net/hardnews/rage-and-change-rnzs-music-problem/
Both Manhire and Brown are not to be lightly dismissed; both have
plumbed
the
essence of it at some length, and not before time in my view.
I left the broadcasting industry more than 10 years ago, so even now for
me
as
for countless others, this is a highly emotive and emotional issue.
Nevertheless, I'm trying to address it as dispassionately as I can
because
by
and large I've always been acutely conscious of the inevitable
conflict
between
harsh economic reality and the public good; whereas I can tell you others
involved in the outfit have been anything but having become so
embedded
and
institutionalised as to be beyond all persuasion or redemption.
To their great credit, though, every single one of them has been
dedicated
way
and beyond the call of duty while working almost the ambience of a
yet-to-mature overall national mindset that still harbours a
derision
and
dismissiveness for anything even remotely smacking of
intellectualism
or
elitism.
For them - every one of them - this axe-blow to their unique skills and
dearly-held core values will amount to nothing less than a living
bereavement,
even for those nearing retirement.
I don't argue with that.
Some things however are worth the cost.
I believe that this is one of those things.
You cannot really put a value on culture (an often overused word but
appropriate here).
Arguably our defence force is unaffordable, as is our welfare system,
as
are
"free" hospitals etc. Those things may well be more important than RNZ
concert
but replacing that with music for younger people and some parliament
broadcasts
(both of which are well catered for already) is a slap in the face
and
I
believe probably an excuse. Additionally the 170,000 weekly listeners
were
not
consulted apparently; no doubt because "we know what they will say so
let's
not
bother".
This one is worth a fight and I hope that happens.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/savernzconcert/?fref=nf
This covers a number of issues - including the reductions in funding
for RNZ over the period of the previous government.
You can't avoid it can you?
This is not about poltical points, it is about art!
Post by Rich80105
. Looking for
numbers of listeners is a reasonable measure, but public service
sometimes has bottom lines that require services to be provided that
are not totally commercial.
RNZ Concert is not in any way commercial and neither should it be.
Post by Rich80105
It is clear that final decisions have
_not_ been made, despite presumptions from the usual idiots. I haven't
seen anything from Melissa Lee (Broadcasting) or Nicky Wagner (Arts,
Culture and Heritage) - fair enough really as most Broadcasting staff
involved were probably appointed during their time in government.
More political rhetoric, how about concentrating on the value or
otherwise
of
RNZ Concert?
Sure, just what value do you think it has - and don't be stupid about
the money; if nobody is listening then we cannot afford it. I believe
there is value in delivering a wide variety of music through the
various RNZ platforms, and I believe there is a responsibility to
deliver programmes which educate about music as well as enabling us to
listen to music that would otherwise be hard to obtain - but to use
the Archives analogy, most of the music on Concert Radio can be
streamed from various sources. The reality is that Radio NZ see the
need to reduce staff by about 30, with a smaller number being employed
on the new youth venture. That is a money issue. If you really believe
we should be spending more and retainng those staff (some of whom are
specialists that would be hard to replace, the question is then how it
is to be funded. Would you be prepared to have an increase in income
tax to fund it, Tony? Or do you want to a few people in poverty to
meet your feel-good needs?
Just read this you abusive twit.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/119386335/jacinda-ardern-on-rnz-concert-changes-we-dont-have-to-lose-one-for-the-other
Nothing to do with money and in defiance of government wishes.
Maybe the PM and Faafoi will fix it, it needs to be done.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
I believe some changes are probably necessary
Why
Post by Rich80105
but I know that if the
changes are made the reduction in broadcasting of New Zealand artists
will affect our ability to develop and appreciate local talent.
It is not merely about NZ artists it is much more about culture which includes
the World's artists.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/arts/119395756/prominent-lawyers-prepare-legal-battle-against-rnz-in-attempt-to-save-concert
Demonstrates the lack of understanding by those who are trying to defend
RNZ
on
this disgraceful matter.
Thompson answers to the Board, not to the minister responsible. That's the
job of Board Chairman Dr Jim Mather.
So, exactly what have we heard so far from the Chairman of the Radio New
Zealand Board? Hmmmm...........
Again, is it too much to expect that Mather will deliver a full, meaningful,
unambiguous **public** explanation of his chief executive's seemingly cavalier
action? After all, Mather has been appointed top smell in an outfit that is
specifically, exclusively mandated to perform and deliver a one-off - yes,
unique - public service role in the nation's life.
Yet perhaps after the Christchurch meeting Mather will share his deepest
thoughts and insightful deliberations with the great unwashed.
Should I hold my breath? You be the judge.
To me. unless Thompson enjoys some kind of authorised autonomy (does he?),
such draconian behaviour smacks of a man exceeding his authority.
Some might even suggest that he's been "got at" by members of the political
commercial lobby, but of course I couldn't possibly comment.
And now
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/119403097/government-to-free-up-fm-frequency-to-keep-rnz-concert
Time for the government to tell their Crown Entity to think more, talk to all
of their stakeholders and their bosses before doing silly things. Maybe that is
now happening.
These processes do take time, but it is good that you are asking for
intervention immediately following evidence that intervention has
already happened. I argued above that all the rushes to judgement and
calls for "decisions" to be reversed were premature; my faith has been
well justified.
Crap. You said it was money, you said that changes were needed.
You were wrong.
Now go away and sulk.
Rich80105
2020-02-10 06:57:26 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Mon, 10 Feb 2020 00:27:29 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sun, 09 Feb 2020 22:06:22 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 07 Feb 2020 20:39:02 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 07 Feb 2020 18:42:16 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Snipped for brevity
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Agreed, and it also explains why I also do not see this as a
National
/ Labour issue. We do however have a problem with our media who
leap
to cheap conclusions far too often, putting priorities on
conflict
over considered thought.
The review is wider than many realise;
This indicates it is not about money -
Post by Rich80105
Post by James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by Tony
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/119346104/youth-radio-killed-the-classical-star
I believe it has a long way to
go, and you are correct that Concert Radio is a small part of a
larger
issue - rushes to judgement at this stage are natural but
inevitably
disappointing . . .
Making a judgement about this announcement is certainly not
rushing
and
if
you
are disappointed in the judgement then you are presumably happy
with
the
removal of one of the few classical outlets in broadcasting, an
outlet
that
is
far more popular than most people believe.
If anything has been rushed it is this decision that Faafoi now
sees
is
upsetting many people.
Thre have certainly been recommendations, but I am not aware of
any
decisions - can you give any evidence to support that?
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/119346104/youth-radio-killed-the-classical-star
"We learned on Wednesday that RNZ plans to charge ahead with what it
calls
"the
biggest overhaul of its music services in years" and it plans to do
it
very
soon. "
"RNZ expects to have its long-established classical music station
Concert
FM
off air by the end of May"
That is not a proposal, that is a decision. Ministerial intervention
should
occur now to make this decision go away so that at the very least
proper
consultation with the real stakeholders can occur.
Still no evidence that this is money related.
In terms of proportionality - i.e. cost per listener - to any
beancounter
Concert in its current form is insupportable. OK, yes, it always has
been
as I
for one know full well having been at the centre of its core technical
operations for many years. But the jig is now up. Today is the day of
reckoning when a societal good must, it seems, kneel to the economic
facts
of
21st century life.
Toby Manhire reports: "Twenty positions are to go as of March 25. They
include
12 RNZ Concert roles and eight that span National or RNZ as a whole,
including
producers and librarians. There would be four redeployments among
those,
and
a
dozen new roles on the “new RNZ music brand�€?, all based in
Auckland."
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
https://thespinoff.co.nz/media/07-02-2020/rnz-is-overhauling-its-music-network-and-a-lot-of-people-are-mad-as-hell-about-it/
https://publicaddress.net/hardnews/rage-and-change-rnzs-music-problem/
Both Manhire and Brown are not to be lightly dismissed; both have
plumbed
the
essence of it at some length, and not before time in my view.
I left the broadcasting industry more than 10 years ago, so even now
for
me
as
for countless others, this is a highly emotive and emotional issue.
Nevertheless, I'm trying to address it as dispassionately as I can
because
by
and large I've always been acutely conscious of the inevitable
conflict
between
harsh economic reality and the public good; whereas I can tell you
others
involved in the outfit have been anything but having become so
embedded
and
institutionalised as to be beyond all persuasion or redemption.
To their great credit, though, every single one of them has been
dedicated
way
and beyond the call of duty while working almost the ambience of a
yet-to-mature overall national mindset that still harbours a
derision
and
dismissiveness for anything even remotely smacking of
intellectualism
or
elitism.
For them - every one of them - this axe-blow to their unique skills and
dearly-held core values will amount to nothing less than a living
bereavement,
even for those nearing retirement.
I don't argue with that.
Some things however are worth the cost.
I believe that this is one of those things.
You cannot really put a value on culture (an often overused word but
appropriate here).
Arguably our defence force is unaffordable, as is our welfare system,
as
are
"free" hospitals etc. Those things may well be more important than RNZ
concert
but replacing that with music for younger people and some parliament
broadcasts
(both of which are well catered for already) is a slap in the face
and
I
believe probably an excuse. Additionally the 170,000 weekly listeners
were
not
consulted apparently; no doubt because "we know what they will say so
let's
not
bother".
This one is worth a fight and I hope that happens.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/savernzconcert/?fref=nf
This covers a number of issues - including the reductions in funding
for RNZ over the period of the previous government.
You can't avoid it can you?
This is not about poltical points, it is about art!
Post by Rich80105
. Looking for
numbers of listeners is a reasonable measure, but public service
sometimes has bottom lines that require services to be provided that
are not totally commercial.
RNZ Concert is not in any way commercial and neither should it be.
Post by Rich80105
It is clear that final decisions have
_not_ been made, despite presumptions from the usual idiots. I haven't
seen anything from Melissa Lee (Broadcasting) or Nicky Wagner (Arts,
Culture and Heritage) - fair enough really as most Broadcasting staff
involved were probably appointed during their time in government.
More political rhetoric, how about concentrating on the value or
otherwise
of
RNZ Concert?
Sure, just what value do you think it has - and don't be stupid about
the money; if nobody is listening then we cannot afford it. I believe
there is value in delivering a wide variety of music through the
various RNZ platforms, and I believe there is a responsibility to
deliver programmes which educate about music as well as enabling us to
listen to music that would otherwise be hard to obtain - but to use
the Archives analogy, most of the music on Concert Radio can be
streamed from various sources. The reality is that Radio NZ see the
need to reduce staff by about 30, with a smaller number being employed
on the new youth venture. That is a money issue. If you really believe
we should be spending more and retainng those staff (some of whom are
specialists that would be hard to replace, the question is then how it
is to be funded. Would you be prepared to have an increase in income
tax to fund it, Tony? Or do you want to a few people in poverty to
meet your feel-good needs?
Just read this you abusive twit.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/119386335/jacinda-ardern-on-rnz-concert-changes-we-dont-have-to-lose-one-for-the-other
Nothing to do with money and in defiance of government wishes.
Maybe the PM and Faafoi will fix it, it needs to be done.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
I believe some changes are probably necessary
Why
Post by Rich80105
but I know that if the
changes are made the reduction in broadcasting of New Zealand artists
will affect our ability to develop and appreciate local talent.
It is not merely about NZ artists it is much more about culture which
includes
the World's artists.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/arts/119395756/prominent-lawyers-prepare-legal-battle-against-rnz-in-attempt-to-save-concert
Demonstrates the lack of understanding by those who are trying to defend
RNZ
on
this disgraceful matter.
Thompson answers to the Board, not to the minister responsible. That's the
job of Board Chairman Dr Jim Mather.
So, exactly what have we heard so far from the Chairman of the Radio New
Zealand Board? Hmmmm...........
Again, is it too much to expect that Mather will deliver a full, meaningful,
unambiguous **public** explanation of his chief executive's seemingly cavalier
action? After all, Mather has been appointed top smell in an outfit that is
specifically, exclusively mandated to perform and deliver a one-off - yes,
unique - public service role in the nation's life.
Yet perhaps after the Christchurch meeting Mather will share his deepest
thoughts and insightful deliberations with the great unwashed.
Should I hold my breath? You be the judge.
To me. unless Thompson enjoys some kind of authorised autonomy (does he?),
such draconian behaviour smacks of a man exceeding his authority.
Some might even suggest that he's been "got at" by members of the political
commercial lobby, but of course I couldn't possibly comment.
And now
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/119403097/government-to-free-up-fm-frequency-to-keep-rnz-concert
Time for the government to tell their Crown Entity to think more, talk to all
of their stakeholders and their bosses before doing silly things. Maybe that is
now happening.
These processes do take time, but it is good that you are asking for
intervention immediately following evidence that intervention has
already happened. I argued above that all the rushes to judgement and
calls for "decisions" to be reversed were premature; my faith has been
well justified.
Crap. You said it was money, you said that changes were needed.
You were wrong.
Now go away and sulk.
Yes money was a key issue, and some changes are inevitable, but at
least we do now better understand the value of some of the work the
technicians in RNZ have been doing.
Tony
2020-02-10 07:17:18 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
These processes do take time, but it is good that you are asking for
intervention immediately following evidence that intervention has
already happened. I argued above that all the rushes to judgement and
calls for "decisions" to be reversed were premature; my faith has been
well justified.
Crap. You said it was money, you said that changes were needed.
You were wrong.
Now go away and sulk.
Yes money was a key issue, and some changes are inevitable, but at
least we do now better understand the value of some of the work the
technicians in RNZ have been doing.
Are you drunk or on something illegal?
You said it was money, there is no evidence of that.
The government (PM and Faafoi) are saying it should not happen. They are
against changes.
You were wrong.
Now go away and sulk.
Crash
2020-02-10 08:00:48 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 10 Feb 2020 00:27:29 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sun, 09 Feb 2020 22:06:22 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 07 Feb 2020 20:39:02 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 07 Feb 2020 18:42:16 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Snipped for brevity
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Agreed, and it also explains why I also do not see this as a
National
/ Labour issue. We do however have a problem with our media who
leap
to cheap conclusions far too often, putting priorities on
conflict
over considered thought.
The review is wider than many realise;
This indicates it is not about money -
Post by Rich80105
Post by James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by Tony
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/119346104/youth-radio-killed-the-classical-star
I believe it has a long way to
go, and you are correct that Concert Radio is a small part of a
larger
issue - rushes to judgement at this stage are natural but
inevitably
disappointing . . .
Making a judgement about this announcement is certainly not
rushing
and
if
you
are disappointed in the judgement then you are presumably happy
with
the
removal of one of the few classical outlets in broadcasting, an
outlet
that
is
far more popular than most people believe.
If anything has been rushed it is this decision that Faafoi now
sees
is
upsetting many people.
Thre have certainly been recommendations, but I am not aware of
any
decisions - can you give any evidence to support that?
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/119346104/youth-radio-killed-the-classical-star
"We learned on Wednesday that RNZ plans to charge ahead with what
it
calls
"the
biggest overhaul of its music services in years" and it plans to
do
it
very
soon. "
"RNZ expects to have its long-established classical music station
Concert
FM
off air by the end of May"
That is not a proposal, that is a decision. Ministerial
intervention
should
occur now to make this decision go away so that at the very least
proper
consultation with the real stakeholders can occur.
Still no evidence that this is money related.
In terms of proportionality - i.e. cost per listener - to any
beancounter
Concert in its current form is insupportable. OK, yes, it always has
been
as I
for one know full well having been at the centre of its core
technical
operations for many years. But the jig is now up. Today is the day
of
reckoning when a societal good must, it seems, kneel to the economic
facts
of
21st century life.
Toby Manhire reports: "Twenty positions are to go as of March 25.
They
include
12 RNZ Concert roles and eight that span National or RNZ as a whole,
including
producers and librarians. There would be four redeployments among
those,
and
a
dozen new roles on the “new RNZ music brand�€?, all based in
Auckland."
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
https://thespinoff.co.nz/media/07-02-2020/rnz-is-overhauling-its-music-network-and-a-lot-of-people-are-mad-as-hell-about-it/
https://publicaddress.net/hardnews/rage-and-change-rnzs-music-problem/
Both Manhire and Brown are not to be lightly dismissed; both have
plumbed
the
essence of it at some length, and not before time in my view.
I left the broadcasting industry more than 10 years ago, so even now
for
me
as
for countless others, this is a highly emotive and emotional issue.
Nevertheless, I'm trying to address it as dispassionately as I can
because
by
and large I've always been acutely conscious of the inevitable
conflict
between
harsh economic reality and the public good; whereas I can tell you
others
involved in the outfit have been anything but having become so
embedded
and
institutionalised as to be beyond all persuasion or redemption.
To their great credit, though, every single one of them has been
dedicated
way
and beyond the call of duty while working almost the ambience of a
yet-to-mature overall national mindset that still harbours a
derision
and
dismissiveness for anything even remotely smacking of
intellectualism
or
elitism.
For them - every one of them - this axe-blow to their unique skills
and
dearly-held core values will amount to nothing less than a living
bereavement,
even for those nearing retirement.
I don't argue with that.
Some things however are worth the cost.
I believe that this is one of those things.
You cannot really put a value on culture (an often overused word but
appropriate here).
Arguably our defence force is unaffordable, as is our welfare system,
as
are
"free" hospitals etc. Those things may well be more important than RNZ
concert
but replacing that with music for younger people and some parliament
broadcasts
(both of which are well catered for already) is a slap in the face
and
I
believe probably an excuse. Additionally the 170,000 weekly listeners
were
not
consulted apparently; no doubt because "we know what they will say so
let's
not
bother".
This one is worth a fight and I hope that happens.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/savernzconcert/?fref=nf
This covers a number of issues - including the reductions in funding
for RNZ over the period of the previous government.
You can't avoid it can you?
This is not about poltical points, it is about art!
Post by Rich80105
. Looking for
numbers of listeners is a reasonable measure, but public service
sometimes has bottom lines that require services to be provided that
are not totally commercial.
RNZ Concert is not in any way commercial and neither should it be.
Post by Rich80105
It is clear that final decisions have
_not_ been made, despite presumptions from the usual idiots. I haven't
seen anything from Melissa Lee (Broadcasting) or Nicky Wagner (Arts,
Culture and Heritage) - fair enough really as most Broadcasting staff
involved were probably appointed during their time in government.
More political rhetoric, how about concentrating on the value or
otherwise
of
RNZ Concert?
Sure, just what value do you think it has - and don't be stupid about
the money; if nobody is listening then we cannot afford it. I believe
there is value in delivering a wide variety of music through the
various RNZ platforms, and I believe there is a responsibility to
deliver programmes which educate about music as well as enabling us to
listen to music that would otherwise be hard to obtain - but to use
the Archives analogy, most of the music on Concert Radio can be
streamed from various sources. The reality is that Radio NZ see the
need to reduce staff by about 30, with a smaller number being employed
on the new youth venture. That is a money issue. If you really believe
we should be spending more and retainng those staff (some of whom are
specialists that would be hard to replace, the question is then how it
is to be funded. Would you be prepared to have an increase in income
tax to fund it, Tony? Or do you want to a few people in poverty to
meet your feel-good needs?
Just read this you abusive twit.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/119386335/jacinda-ardern-on-rnz-concert-changes-we-dont-have-to-lose-one-for-the-other
Nothing to do with money and in defiance of government wishes.
Maybe the PM and Faafoi will fix it, it needs to be done.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
I believe some changes are probably necessary
Why
Post by Rich80105
but I know that if the
changes are made the reduction in broadcasting of New Zealand artists
will affect our ability to develop and appreciate local talent.
It is not merely about NZ artists it is much more about culture which
includes
the World's artists.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/arts/119395756/prominent-lawyers-prepare-legal-battle-against-rnz-in-attempt-to-save-concert
Demonstrates the lack of understanding by those who are trying to defend
RNZ
on
this disgraceful matter.
Thompson answers to the Board, not to the minister responsible. That's the
job of Board Chairman Dr Jim Mather.
So, exactly what have we heard so far from the Chairman of the Radio New
Zealand Board? Hmmmm...........
Again, is it too much to expect that Mather will deliver a full, meaningful,
unambiguous **public** explanation of his chief executive's seemingly cavalier
action? After all, Mather has been appointed top smell in an outfit that is
specifically, exclusively mandated to perform and deliver a one-off - yes,
unique - public service role in the nation's life.
Yet perhaps after the Christchurch meeting Mather will share his deepest
thoughts and insightful deliberations with the great unwashed.
Should I hold my breath? You be the judge.
To me. unless Thompson enjoys some kind of authorised autonomy (does he?),
such draconian behaviour smacks of a man exceeding his authority.
Some might even suggest that he's been "got at" by members of the political
commercial lobby, but of course I couldn't possibly comment.
And now
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/119403097/government-to-free-up-fm-frequency-to-keep-rnz-concert
Time for the government to tell their Crown Entity to think more, talk to all
of their stakeholders and their bosses before doing silly things. Maybe that is
now happening.
These processes do take time, but it is good that you are asking for
intervention immediately following evidence that intervention has
already happened. I argued above that all the rushes to judgement and
calls for "decisions" to be reversed were premature; my faith has been
well justified.
Crap. You said it was money, you said that changes were needed.
You were wrong.
Now go away and sulk.
Yes money was a key issue, and some changes are inevitable, but at
least we do now better understand the value of some of the work the
technicians in RNZ have been doing.
Rich, what is your post above in relation to? The decision by RNZ to
change the Concert program to accommodate a new youth-focused program
was never about money, but about freeing up resources for this new
program. I understand that the PM is miffed with RNZ for a premature
announcement when the government had asked for time to respond to the
RNZ Concert program decision.


--
Crash McBash
Rich80105
2020-02-10 09:08:30 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 10 Feb 2020 00:27:29 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sun, 09 Feb 2020 22:06:22 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 07 Feb 2020 20:39:02 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 07 Feb 2020 18:42:16 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Snipped for brevity
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Agreed, and it also explains why I also do not see this as a
National
/ Labour issue. We do however have a problem with our media who
leap
to cheap conclusions far too often, putting priorities on
conflict
over considered thought.
The review is wider than many realise;
This indicates it is not about money -
Post by Rich80105
Post by James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by Tony
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/119346104/youth-radio-killed-the-classical-star
I believe it has a long way to
go, and you are correct that Concert Radio is a small part of a
larger
issue - rushes to judgement at this stage are natural but
inevitably
disappointing . . .
Making a judgement about this announcement is certainly not
rushing
and
if
you
are disappointed in the judgement then you are presumably happy
with
the
removal of one of the few classical outlets in broadcasting, an
outlet
that
is
far more popular than most people believe.
If anything has been rushed it is this decision that Faafoi now
sees
is
upsetting many people.
Thre have certainly been recommendations, but I am not aware of
any
decisions - can you give any evidence to support that?
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/119346104/youth-radio-killed-the-classical-star
"We learned on Wednesday that RNZ plans to charge ahead with what
it
calls
"the
biggest overhaul of its music services in years" and it plans to
do
it
very
soon. "
"RNZ expects to have its long-established classical music station
Concert
FM
off air by the end of May"
That is not a proposal, that is a decision. Ministerial
intervention
should
occur now to make this decision go away so that at the very least
proper
consultation with the real stakeholders can occur.
Still no evidence that this is money related.
In terms of proportionality - i.e. cost per listener - to any
beancounter
Concert in its current form is insupportable. OK, yes, it always
has
been
as I
for one know full well having been at the centre of its core
technical
operations for many years. But the jig is now up. Today is the day
of
reckoning when a societal good must, it seems, kneel to the economic
facts
of
21st century life.
Toby Manhire reports: "Twenty positions are to go as of March 25.
They
include
12 RNZ Concert roles and eight that span National or RNZ as a whole,
including
producers and librarians. There would be four redeployments among
those,
and
a
dozen new roles on the “new RNZ music brand�€?, all based in
Auckland."
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
https://thespinoff.co.nz/media/07-02-2020/rnz-is-overhauling-its-music-network-and-a-lot-of-people-are-mad-as-hell-about-it/
https://publicaddress.net/hardnews/rage-and-change-rnzs-music-problem/
Both Manhire and Brown are not to be lightly dismissed; both have
plumbed
the
essence of it at some length, and not before time in my view.
I left the broadcasting industry more than 10 years ago, so even now
for
me
as
for countless others, this is a highly emotive and emotional issue.
Nevertheless, I'm trying to address it as dispassionately as I can
because
by
and large I've always been acutely conscious of the inevitable
conflict
between
harsh economic reality and the public good; whereas I can tell you
others
involved in the outfit have been anything but having become so
embedded
and
institutionalised as to be beyond all persuasion or redemption.
To their great credit, though, every single one of them has been
dedicated
way
and beyond the call of duty while working almost the ambience of a
yet-to-mature overall national mindset that still harbours a
derision
and
dismissiveness for anything even remotely smacking of
intellectualism
or
elitism.
For them - every one of them - this axe-blow to their unique skills
and
dearly-held core values will amount to nothing less than a living
bereavement,
even for those nearing retirement.
I don't argue with that.
Some things however are worth the cost.
I believe that this is one of those things.
You cannot really put a value on culture (an often overused word but
appropriate here).
Arguably our defence force is unaffordable, as is our welfare system,
as
are
"free" hospitals etc. Those things may well be more important than
RNZ
concert
but replacing that with music for younger people and some parliament
broadcasts
(both of which are well catered for already) is a slap in the face
and
I
believe probably an excuse. Additionally the 170,000 weekly listeners
were
not
consulted apparently; no doubt because "we know what they will say so
let's
not
bother".
This one is worth a fight and I hope that happens.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/savernzconcert/?fref=nf
This covers a number of issues - including the reductions in funding
for RNZ over the period of the previous government.
You can't avoid it can you?
This is not about poltical points, it is about art!
Post by Rich80105
. Looking for
numbers of listeners is a reasonable measure, but public service
sometimes has bottom lines that require services to be provided that
are not totally commercial.
RNZ Concert is not in any way commercial and neither should it be.
Post by Rich80105
It is clear that final decisions have
_not_ been made, despite presumptions from the usual idiots. I haven't
seen anything from Melissa Lee (Broadcasting) or Nicky Wagner (Arts,
Culture and Heritage) - fair enough really as most Broadcasting staff
involved were probably appointed during their time in government.
More political rhetoric, how about concentrating on the value or
otherwise
of
RNZ Concert?
Sure, just what value do you think it has - and don't be stupid about
the money; if nobody is listening then we cannot afford it. I believe
there is value in delivering a wide variety of music through the
various RNZ platforms, and I believe there is a responsibility to
deliver programmes which educate about music as well as enabling us to
listen to music that would otherwise be hard to obtain - but to use
the Archives analogy, most of the music on Concert Radio can be
streamed from various sources. The reality is that Radio NZ see the
need to reduce staff by about 30, with a smaller number being employed
on the new youth venture. That is a money issue. If you really believe
we should be spending more and retainng those staff (some of whom are
specialists that would be hard to replace, the question is then how it
is to be funded. Would you be prepared to have an increase in income
tax to fund it, Tony? Or do you want to a few people in poverty to
meet your feel-good needs?
Just read this you abusive twit.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/119386335/jacinda-ardern-on-rnz-concert-changes-we-dont-have-to-lose-one-for-the-other
Nothing to do with money and in defiance of government wishes.
Maybe the PM and Faafoi will fix it, it needs to be done.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
I believe some changes are probably necessary
Why
Post by Rich80105
but I know that if the
changes are made the reduction in broadcasting of New Zealand artists
will affect our ability to develop and appreciate local talent.
It is not merely about NZ artists it is much more about culture which
includes
the World's artists.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/arts/119395756/prominent-lawyers-prepare-legal-battle-against-rnz-in-attempt-to-save-concert
Demonstrates the lack of understanding by those who are trying to defend
RNZ
on
this disgraceful matter.
Thompson answers to the Board, not to the minister responsible. That's the
job of Board Chairman Dr Jim Mather.
So, exactly what have we heard so far from the Chairman of the Radio New
Zealand Board? Hmmmm...........
Again, is it too much to expect that Mather will deliver a full, meaningful,
unambiguous **public** explanation of his chief executive's seemingly cavalier
action? After all, Mather has been appointed top smell in an outfit that is
specifically, exclusively mandated to perform and deliver a one-off - yes,
unique - public service role in the nation's life.
Yet perhaps after the Christchurch meeting Mather will share his deepest
thoughts and insightful deliberations with the great unwashed.
Should I hold my breath? You be the judge.
To me. unless Thompson enjoys some kind of authorised autonomy (does he?),
such draconian behaviour smacks of a man exceeding his authority.
Some might even suggest that he's been "got at" by members of the political
commercial lobby, but of course I couldn't possibly comment.
And now
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/119403097/government-to-free-up-fm-frequency-to-keep-rnz-concert
Time for the government to tell their Crown Entity to think more, talk to all
of their stakeholders and their bosses before doing silly things. Maybe that is
now happening.
These processes do take time, but it is good that you are asking for
intervention immediately following evidence that intervention has
already happened. I argued above that all the rushes to judgement and
calls for "decisions" to be reversed were premature; my faith has been
well justified.
Crap. You said it was money, you said that changes were needed.
You were wrong.
Now go away and sulk.
Yes money was a key issue, and some changes are inevitable, but at
least we do now better understand the value of some of the work the
technicians in RNZ have been doing.
Rich, what is your post above in relation to? The decision by RNZ to
change the Concert program to accommodate a new youth-focused program
was never about money, but about freeing up resources for this new
program. I understand that the PM is miffed with RNZ for a premature
announcement when the government had asked for time to respond to the
RNZ Concert program decision.
The statements from RNZ make it clear that to develop the station they
want, they have to save money elsewhere. I have heard (but not seen in
print, that they were proposing to reduce staff by about 30, including
nearly all current presenters. Put "Save RNZ Concert"into facebook and
there is a public group which has links to a lot of articles -
including one on Kiwiblog headed "12 staff to run Concert FM is
ridiculous". "freeing up resources" means it is all about money!
Tony
2020-02-10 19:22:03 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 10 Feb 2020 00:27:29 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sun, 09 Feb 2020 22:06:22 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
On Monday, February 10, 2020 at 3:14:22 PM UTC+13,
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 07 Feb 2020 20:39:02 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 07 Feb 2020 18:42:16 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Snipped for brevity
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Agreed, and it also explains why I also do not see this as
a
National
/ Labour issue. We do however have a problem with our media
who
leap
to cheap conclusions far too often, putting priorities on
conflict
over considered thought.
The review is wider than many realise;
This indicates it is not about money -
Post by Rich80105
Post by James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by Tony
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/119346104/youth-radio-killed-the-classical-star
I believe it has a long way to
go, and you are correct that Concert Radio is a small part
of a
larger
issue - rushes to judgement at this stage are natural but
inevitably
disappointing . . .
Making a judgement about this announcement is certainly not
rushing
and
if
you
are disappointed in the judgement then you are presumably
happy
with
the
removal of one of the few classical outlets in broadcasting,
an
outlet
that
is
far more popular than most people believe.
If anything has been rushed it is this decision that Faafoi
now
sees
is
upsetting many people.
Thre have certainly been recommendations, but I am not aware
of
any
decisions - can you give any evidence to support that?
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/119346104/youth-radio-killed-the-classical-star
"We learned on Wednesday that RNZ plans to charge ahead with
what
it
calls
"the
biggest overhaul of its music services in years" and it plans
to
do
it
very
soon. "
"RNZ expects to have its long-established classical music
station
Concert
FM
off air by the end of May"
That is not a proposal, that is a decision. Ministerial
intervention
should
occur now to make this decision go away so that at the very
least
proper
consultation with the real stakeholders can occur.
Still no evidence that this is money related.
In terms of proportionality - i.e. cost per listener - to any
beancounter
Concert in its current form is insupportable. OK, yes, it always
has
been
as I
for one know full well having been at the centre of its core
technical
operations for many years. But the jig is now up. Today is the
day
of
reckoning when a societal good must, it seems, kneel to the
economic
facts
of
21st century life.
Toby Manhire reports: "Twenty positions are to go as of March 25.
They
include
12 RNZ Concert roles and eight that span National or RNZ as a
whole,
including
producers and librarians. There would be four redeployments among
those,
and
a
dozen new roles on the “new RNZ music brandᅵ€?, all based
in
Auckland."
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
https://thespinoff.co.nz/media/07-02-2020/rnz-is-overhauling-its-music-network-and-a-lot-of-people-are-mad-as-hell-about-it/
https://publicaddress.net/hardnews/rage-and-change-rnzs-music-problem/
Both Manhire and Brown are not to be lightly dismissed; both have
plumbed
the
essence of it at some length, and not before time in my view.
I left the broadcasting industry more than 10 years ago, so even
now
for
me
as
for countless others, this is a highly emotive and emotional
issue.
Nevertheless, I'm trying to address it as dispassionately as I
can
because
by
and large I've always been acutely conscious of the inevitable
conflict
between
harsh economic reality and the public good; whereas I can tell
you
others
involved in the outfit have been anything but having become so
embedded
and
institutionalised as to be beyond all persuasion or redemption.
To their great credit, though, every single one of them has been
dedicated
way
and beyond the call of duty while working almost the ambience of
a
yet-to-mature overall national mindset that still harbours a
derision
and
dismissiveness for anything even remotely smacking of
intellectualism
or
elitism.
For them - every one of them - this axe-blow to their unique
skills
and
dearly-held core values will amount to nothing less than a living
bereavement,
even for those nearing retirement.
I don't argue with that.
Some things however are worth the cost.
I believe that this is one of those things.
You cannot really put a value on culture (an often overused word
but
appropriate here).
Arguably our defence force is unaffordable, as is our welfare
system,
as
are
"free" hospitals etc. Those things may well be more important than
RNZ
concert
but replacing that with music for younger people and some
parliament
broadcasts
(both of which are well catered for already) is a slap in the face
and
I
believe probably an excuse. Additionally the 170,000 weekly
listeners
were
not
consulted apparently; no doubt because "we know what they will
say so
let's
not
bother".
This one is worth a fight and I hope that happens.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/savernzconcert/?fref=nf
This covers a number of issues - including the reductions in funding
for RNZ over the period of the previous government.
You can't avoid it can you?
This is not about poltical points, it is about art!
Post by Rich80105
. Looking for
numbers of listeners is a reasonable measure, but public service
sometimes has bottom lines that require services to be provided that
are not totally commercial.
RNZ Concert is not in any way commercial and neither should it be.
Post by Rich80105
It is clear that final decisions have
_not_ been made, despite presumptions from the usual idiots. I
haven't
seen anything from Melissa Lee (Broadcasting) or Nicky Wagner (Arts,
Culture and Heritage) - fair enough really as most Broadcasting staff
involved were probably appointed during their time in government.
More political rhetoric, how about concentrating on the value or
otherwise
of
RNZ Concert?
Sure, just what value do you think it has - and don't be stupid about
the money; if nobody is listening then we cannot afford it. I believe
there is value in delivering a wide variety of music through the
various RNZ platforms, and I believe there is a responsibility to
deliver programmes which educate about music as well as enabling us to
listen to music that would otherwise be hard to obtain - but to use
the Archives analogy, most of the music on Concert Radio can be
streamed from various sources. The reality is that Radio NZ see the
need to reduce staff by about 30, with a smaller number being employed
on the new youth venture. That is a money issue. If you really believe
we should be spending more and retainng those staff (some of whom are
specialists that would be hard to replace, the question is then how it
is to be funded. Would you be prepared to have an increase in income
tax to fund it, Tony? Or do you want to a few people in poverty to
meet your feel-good needs?
Just read this you abusive twit.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/119386335/jacinda-ardern-on-rnz-concert-changes-we-dont-have-to-lose-one-for-the-other
Nothing to do with money and in defiance of government wishes.
Maybe the PM and Faafoi will fix it, it needs to be done.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
I believe some changes are probably necessary
Why
Post by Rich80105
but I know that if the
changes are made the reduction in broadcasting of New Zealand artists
will affect our ability to develop and appreciate local talent.
It is not merely about NZ artists it is much more about culture which
includes
the World's artists.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/arts/119395756/prominent-lawyers-prepare-legal-battle-against-rnz-in-attempt-to-save-concert
Demonstrates the lack of understanding by those who are trying to defend
RNZ
on
this disgraceful matter.
Thompson answers to the Board, not to the minister responsible. That's the
job of Board Chairman Dr Jim Mather.
So, exactly what have we heard so far from the Chairman of the Radio New
Zealand Board? Hmmmm...........
Again, is it too much to expect that Mather will deliver a full, meaningful,
unambiguous **public** explanation of his chief executive's seemingly cavalier
action? After all, Mather has been appointed top smell in an outfit that is
specifically, exclusively mandated to perform and deliver a one-off - yes,
unique - public service role in the nation's life.
Yet perhaps after the Christchurch meeting Mather will share his deepest
thoughts and insightful deliberations with the great unwashed.
Should I hold my breath? You be the judge.
To me. unless Thompson enjoys some kind of authorised autonomy (does he?),
such draconian behaviour smacks of a man exceeding his authority.
Some might even suggest that he's been "got at" by members of the political
commercial lobby, but of course I couldn't possibly comment.
And now
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/119403097/government-to-free-up-fm-frequency-to-keep-rnz-concert
Time for the government to tell their Crown Entity to think more, talk to all
of their stakeholders and their bosses before doing silly things. Maybe
that
is
now happening.
These processes do take time, but it is good that you are asking for
intervention immediately following evidence that intervention has
already happened. I argued above that all the rushes to judgement and
calls for "decisions" to be reversed were premature; my faith has been
well justified.
Crap. You said it was money, you said that changes were needed.
You were wrong.
Now go away and sulk.
Yes money was a key issue, and some changes are inevitable, but at
least we do now better understand the value of some of the work the
technicians in RNZ have been doing.
Rich, what is your post above in relation to? The decision by RNZ to
change the Concert program to accommodate a new youth-focused program
was never about money, but about freeing up resources for this new
program. I understand that the PM is miffed with RNZ for a premature
announcement when the government had asked for time to respond to the
RNZ Concert program decision.
The statements from RNZ make it clear that to develop the station they
want, they have to save money elsewhere. I have heard (but not seen in
print, that they were proposing to reduce staff by about 30, including
nearly all current presenters. Put "Save RNZ Concert"into facebook and
there is a public group which has links to a lot of articles -
including one on Kiwiblog headed "12 staff to run Concert FM is
ridiculous". "freeing up resources" means it is all about money!
None of that has been reported.
I prefer to believe the government this time, why don't you?
Crash
2020-02-10 20:05:25 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 10 Feb 2020 00:27:29 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sun, 09 Feb 2020 22:06:22 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 07 Feb 2020 20:39:02 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 07 Feb 2020 18:42:16 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Snipped for brevity
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Agreed, and it also explains why I also do not see this as a
National
/ Labour issue. We do however have a problem with our media who
leap
to cheap conclusions far too often, putting priorities on
conflict
over considered thought.
The review is wider than many realise;
This indicates it is not about money -
Post by Rich80105
Post by James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by Tony
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/119346104/youth-radio-killed-the-classical-star
I believe it has a long way to
go, and you are correct that Concert Radio is a small part of a
larger
issue - rushes to judgement at this stage are natural but
inevitably
disappointing . . .
Making a judgement about this announcement is certainly not
rushing
and
if
you
are disappointed in the judgement then you are presumably happy
with
the
removal of one of the few classical outlets in broadcasting, an
outlet
that
is
far more popular than most people believe.
If anything has been rushed it is this decision that Faafoi now
sees
is
upsetting many people.
Thre have certainly been recommendations, but I am not aware of
any
decisions - can you give any evidence to support that?
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/119346104/youth-radio-killed-the-classical-star
"We learned on Wednesday that RNZ plans to charge ahead with what
it
calls
"the
biggest overhaul of its music services in years" and it plans to
do
it
very
soon. "
"RNZ expects to have its long-established classical music station
Concert
FM
off air by the end of May"
That is not a proposal, that is a decision. Ministerial
intervention
should
occur now to make this decision go away so that at the very least
proper
consultation with the real stakeholders can occur.
Still no evidence that this is money related.
In terms of proportionality - i.e. cost per listener - to any
beancounter
Concert in its current form is insupportable. OK, yes, it always
has
been
as I
for one know full well having been at the centre of its core
technical
operations for many years. But the jig is now up. Today is the day
of
reckoning when a societal good must, it seems, kneel to the economic
facts
of
21st century life.
Toby Manhire reports: "Twenty positions are to go as of March 25.
They
include
12 RNZ Concert roles and eight that span National or RNZ as a whole,
including
producers and librarians. There would be four redeployments among
those,
and
a
dozen new roles on the “new RNZ music brand�€?, all based in
Auckland."
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
https://thespinoff.co.nz/media/07-02-2020/rnz-is-overhauling-its-music-network-and-a-lot-of-people-are-mad-as-hell-about-it/
https://publicaddress.net/hardnews/rage-and-change-rnzs-music-problem/
Both Manhire and Brown are not to be lightly dismissed; both have
plumbed
the
essence of it at some length, and not before time in my view.
I left the broadcasting industry more than 10 years ago, so even now
for
me
as
for countless others, this is a highly emotive and emotional issue.
Nevertheless, I'm trying to address it as dispassionately as I can
because
by
and large I've always been acutely conscious of the inevitable
conflict
between
harsh economic reality and the public good; whereas I can tell you
others
involved in the outfit have been anything but having become so
embedded
and
institutionalised as to be beyond all persuasion or redemption.
To their great credit, though, every single one of them has been
dedicated
way
and beyond the call of duty while working almost the ambience of a
yet-to-mature overall national mindset that still harbours a
derision
and
dismissiveness for anything even remotely smacking of
intellectualism
or
elitism.
For them - every one of them - this axe-blow to their unique skills
and
dearly-held core values will amount to nothing less than a living
bereavement,
even for those nearing retirement.
I don't argue with that.
Some things however are worth the cost.
I believe that this is one of those things.
You cannot really put a value on culture (an often overused word but
appropriate here).
Arguably our defence force is unaffordable, as is our welfare system,
as
are
"free" hospitals etc. Those things may well be more important than
RNZ
concert
but replacing that with music for younger people and some parliament
broadcasts
(both of which are well catered for already) is a slap in the face
and
I
believe probably an excuse. Additionally the 170,000 weekly listeners
were
not
consulted apparently; no doubt because "we know what they will say so
let's
not
bother".
This one is worth a fight and I hope that happens.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/savernzconcert/?fref=nf
This covers a number of issues - including the reductions in funding
for RNZ over the period of the previous government.
You can't avoid it can you?
This is not about poltical points, it is about art!
Post by Rich80105
. Looking for
numbers of listeners is a reasonable measure, but public service
sometimes has bottom lines that require services to be provided that
are not totally commercial.
RNZ Concert is not in any way commercial and neither should it be.
Post by Rich80105
It is clear that final decisions have
_not_ been made, despite presumptions from the usual idiots. I haven't
seen anything from Melissa Lee (Broadcasting) or Nicky Wagner (Arts,
Culture and Heritage) - fair enough really as most Broadcasting staff
involved were probably appointed during their time in government.
More political rhetoric, how about concentrating on the value or
otherwise
of
RNZ Concert?
Sure, just what value do you think it has - and don't be stupid about
the money; if nobody is listening then we cannot afford it. I believe
there is value in delivering a wide variety of music through the
various RNZ platforms, and I believe there is a responsibility to
deliver programmes which educate about music as well as enabling us to
listen to music that would otherwise be hard to obtain - but to use
the Archives analogy, most of the music on Concert Radio can be
streamed from various sources. The reality is that Radio NZ see the
need to reduce staff by about 30, with a smaller number being employed
on the new youth venture. That is a money issue. If you really believe
we should be spending more and retainng those staff (some of whom are
specialists that would be hard to replace, the question is then how it
is to be funded. Would you be prepared to have an increase in income
tax to fund it, Tony? Or do you want to a few people in poverty to
meet your feel-good needs?
Just read this you abusive twit.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/119386335/jacinda-ardern-on-rnz-concert-changes-we-dont-have-to-lose-one-for-the-other
Nothing to do with money and in defiance of government wishes.
Maybe the PM and Faafoi will fix it, it needs to be done.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
I believe some changes are probably necessary
Why
Post by Rich80105
but I know that if the
changes are made the reduction in broadcasting of New Zealand artists
will affect our ability to develop and appreciate local talent.
It is not merely about NZ artists it is much more about culture which
includes
the World's artists.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/arts/119395756/prominent-lawyers-prepare-legal-battle-against-rnz-in-attempt-to-save-concert
Demonstrates the lack of understanding by those who are trying to defend
RNZ
on
this disgraceful matter.
Thompson answers to the Board, not to the minister responsible. That's the
job of Board Chairman Dr Jim Mather.
So, exactly what have we heard so far from the Chairman of the Radio New
Zealand Board? Hmmmm...........
Again, is it too much to expect that Mather will deliver a full, meaningful,
unambiguous **public** explanation of his chief executive's seemingly cavalier
action? After all, Mather has been appointed top smell in an outfit that is
specifically, exclusively mandated to perform and deliver a one-off - yes,
unique - public service role in the nation's life.
Yet perhaps after the Christchurch meeting Mather will share his deepest
thoughts and insightful deliberations with the great unwashed.
Should I hold my breath? You be the judge.
To me. unless Thompson enjoys some kind of authorised autonomy (does he?),
such draconian behaviour smacks of a man exceeding his authority.
Some might even suggest that he's been "got at" by members of the political
commercial lobby, but of course I couldn't possibly comment.
And now
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/119403097/government-to-free-up-fm-frequency-to-keep-rnz-concert
Time for the government to tell their Crown Entity to think more, talk to all
of their stakeholders and their bosses before doing silly things. Maybe that is
now happening.
These processes do take time, but it is good that you are asking for
intervention immediately following evidence that intervention has
already happened. I argued above that all the rushes to judgement and
calls for "decisions" to be reversed were premature; my faith has been
well justified.
Crap. You said it was money, you said that changes were needed.
You were wrong.
Now go away and sulk.
Yes money was a key issue, and some changes are inevitable, but at
least we do now better understand the value of some of the work the
technicians in RNZ have been doing.
Rich, what is your post above in relation to? The decision by RNZ to
change the Concert program to accommodate a new youth-focused program
was never about money, but about freeing up resources for this new
program. I understand that the PM is miffed with RNZ for a premature
announcement when the government had asked for time to respond to the
RNZ Concert program decision.
The statements from RNZ make it clear that to develop the station they
want, they have to save money elsewhere. I have heard (but not seen in
print, that they were proposing to reduce staff by about 30, including
nearly all current presenters. Put "Save RNZ Concert"into facebook and
there is a public group which has links to a lot of articles -
including one on Kiwiblog headed "12 staff to run Concert FM is
ridiculous". "freeing up resources" means it is all about money!
That is completely incorrect. Read this article:

https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/mediawatch/audio/2018732872/rnz-set-to-cut-back-concert-and-launch-new-youth-service

There is no mention of saving money at all. While there may be a net
reduction in head-count, this does not necessarily translate into cost
savings. Let me spell this out - the head-count savings may well be
to pay for a new youth program that will cost more to broadcast that
the current Concert program.


--
Crash McBash
Rich80105
2020-02-10 20:16:24 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 10 Feb 2020 00:27:29 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sun, 09 Feb 2020 22:06:22 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 07 Feb 2020 20:39:02 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 07 Feb 2020 18:42:16 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Snipped for brevity
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Agreed, and it also explains why I also do not see this as a
National
/ Labour issue. We do however have a problem with our media who
leap
to cheap conclusions far too often, putting priorities on
conflict
over considered thought.
The review is wider than many realise;
This indicates it is not about money -
Post by Rich80105
Post by James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by Tony
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/119346104/youth-radio-killed-the-classical-star
I believe it has a long way to
go, and you are correct that Concert Radio is a small part of a
larger
issue - rushes to judgement at this stage are natural but
inevitably
disappointing . . .
Making a judgement about this announcement is certainly not
rushing
and
if
you
are disappointed in the judgement then you are presumably happy
with
the
removal of one of the few classical outlets in broadcasting, an
outlet
that
is
far more popular than most people believe.
If anything has been rushed it is this decision that Faafoi now
sees
is
upsetting many people.
Thre have certainly been recommendations, but I am not aware of
any
decisions - can you give any evidence to support that?
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/119346104/youth-radio-killed-the-classical-star
"We learned on Wednesday that RNZ plans to charge ahead with what
it
calls
"the
biggest overhaul of its music services in years" and it plans to
do
it
very
soon. "
"RNZ expects to have its long-established classical music station
Concert
FM
off air by the end of May"
That is not a proposal, that is a decision. Ministerial
intervention
should
occur now to make this decision go away so that at the very least
proper
consultation with the real stakeholders can occur.
Still no evidence that this is money related.
In terms of proportionality - i.e. cost per listener - to any
beancounter
Concert in its current form is insupportable. OK, yes, it always
has
been
as I
for one know full well having been at the centre of its core
technical
operations for many years. But the jig is now up. Today is the day
of
reckoning when a societal good must, it seems, kneel to the economic
facts
of
21st century life.
Toby Manhire reports: "Twenty positions are to go as of March 25.
They
include
12 RNZ Concert roles and eight that span National or RNZ as a whole,
including
producers and librarians. There would be four redeployments among
those,
and
a
dozen new roles on the “new RNZ music brand�€?, all based in
Auckland."
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
https://thespinoff.co.nz/media/07-02-2020/rnz-is-overhauling-its-music-network-and-a-lot-of-people-are-mad-as-hell-about-it/
https://publicaddress.net/hardnews/rage-and-change-rnzs-music-problem/
Both Manhire and Brown are not to be lightly dismissed; both have
plumbed
the
essence of it at some length, and not before time in my view.
I left the broadcasting industry more than 10 years ago, so even now
for
me
as
for countless others, this is a highly emotive and emotional issue.
Nevertheless, I'm trying to address it as dispassionately as I can
because
by
and large I've always been acutely conscious of the inevitable
conflict
between
harsh economic reality and the public good; whereas I can tell you
others
involved in the outfit have been anything but having become so
embedded
and
institutionalised as to be beyond all persuasion or redemption.
To their great credit, though, every single one of them has been
dedicated
way
and beyond the call of duty while working almost the ambience of a
yet-to-mature overall national mindset that still harbours a
derision
and
dismissiveness for anything even remotely smacking of
intellectualism
or
elitism.
For them - every one of them - this axe-blow to their unique skills
and
dearly-held core values will amount to nothing less than a living
bereavement,
even for those nearing retirement.
I don't argue with that.
Some things however are worth the cost.
I believe that this is one of those things.
You cannot really put a value on culture (an often overused word but
appropriate here).
Arguably our defence force is unaffordable, as is our welfare system,
as
are
"free" hospitals etc. Those things may well be more important than
RNZ
concert
but replacing that with music for younger people and some parliament
broadcasts
(both of which are well catered for already) is a slap in the face
and
I
believe probably an excuse. Additionally the 170,000 weekly listeners
were
not
consulted apparently; no doubt because "we know what they will say so
let's
not
bother".
This one is worth a fight and I hope that happens.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/savernzconcert/?fref=nf
This covers a number of issues - including the reductions in funding
for RNZ over the period of the previous government.
You can't avoid it can you?
This is not about poltical points, it is about art!
Post by Rich80105
. Looking for
numbers of listeners is a reasonable measure, but public service
sometimes has bottom lines that require services to be provided that
are not totally commercial.
RNZ Concert is not in any way commercial and neither should it be.
Post by Rich80105
It is clear that final decisions have
_not_ been made, despite presumptions from the usual idiots. I haven't
seen anything from Melissa Lee (Broadcasting) or Nicky Wagner (Arts,
Culture and Heritage) - fair enough really as most Broadcasting staff
involved were probably appointed during their time in government.
More political rhetoric, how about concentrating on the value or
otherwise
of
RNZ Concert?
Sure, just what value do you think it has - and don't be stupid about
the money; if nobody is listening then we cannot afford it. I believe
there is value in delivering a wide variety of music through the
various RNZ platforms, and I believe there is a responsibility to
deliver programmes which educate about music as well as enabling us to
listen to music that would otherwise be hard to obtain - but to use
the Archives analogy, most of the music on Concert Radio can be
streamed from various sources. The reality is that Radio NZ see the
need to reduce staff by about 30, with a smaller number being employed
on the new youth venture. That is a money issue. If you really believe
we should be spending more and retainng those staff (some of whom are
specialists that would be hard to replace, the question is then how it
is to be funded. Would you be prepared to have an increase in income
tax to fund it, Tony? Or do you want to a few people in poverty to
meet your feel-good needs?
Just read this you abusive twit.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/119386335/jacinda-ardern-on-rnz-concert-changes-we-dont-have-to-lose-one-for-the-other
Nothing to do with money and in defiance of government wishes.
Maybe the PM and Faafoi will fix it, it needs to be done.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
I believe some changes are probably necessary
Why
Post by Rich80105
but I know that if the
changes are made the reduction in broadcasting of New Zealand artists
will affect our ability to develop and appreciate local talent.
It is not merely about NZ artists it is much more about culture which
includes
the World's artists.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/arts/119395756/prominent-lawyers-prepare-legal-battle-against-rnz-in-attempt-to-save-concert
Demonstrates the lack of understanding by those who are trying to defend
RNZ
on
this disgraceful matter.
Thompson answers to the Board, not to the minister responsible. That's the
job of Board Chairman Dr Jim Mather.
So, exactly what have we heard so far from the Chairman of the Radio New
Zealand Board? Hmmmm...........
Again, is it too much to expect that Mather will deliver a full, meaningful,
unambiguous **public** explanation of his chief executive's seemingly cavalier
action? After all, Mather has been appointed top smell in an outfit that is
specifically, exclusively mandated to perform and deliver a one-off - yes,
unique - public service role in the nation's life.
Yet perhaps after the Christchurch meeting Mather will share his deepest
thoughts and insightful deliberations with the great unwashed.
Should I hold my breath? You be the judge.
To me. unless Thompson enjoys some kind of authorised autonomy (does he?),
such draconian behaviour smacks of a man exceeding his authority.
Some might even suggest that he's been "got at" by members of the political
commercial lobby, but of course I couldn't possibly comment.
And now
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/119403097/government-to-free-up-fm-frequency-to-keep-rnz-concert
Time for the government to tell their Crown Entity to think more, talk to all
of their stakeholders and their bosses before doing silly things. Maybe that is
now happening.
These processes do take time, but it is good that you are asking for
intervention immediately following evidence that intervention has
already happened. I argued above that all the rushes to judgement and
calls for "decisions" to be reversed were premature; my faith has been
well justified.
Crap. You said it was money, you said that changes were needed.
You were wrong.
Now go away and sulk.
Yes money was a key issue, and some changes are inevitable, but at
least we do now better understand the value of some of the work the
technicians in RNZ have been doing.
Rich, what is your post above in relation to? The decision by RNZ to
change the Concert program to accommodate a new youth-focused program
was never about money, but about freeing up resources for this new
program. I understand that the PM is miffed with RNZ for a premature
announcement when the government had asked for time to respond to the
RNZ Concert program decision.
The statements from RNZ make it clear that to develop the station they
want, they have to save money elsewhere. I have heard (but not seen in
print, that they were proposing to reduce staff by about 30, including
nearly all current presenters. Put "Save RNZ Concert"into facebook and
there is a public group which has links to a lot of articles -
including one on Kiwiblog headed "12 staff to run Concert FM is
ridiculous". "freeing up resources" means it is all about money!
https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/mediawatch/audio/2018732872/rnz-set-to-cut-back-concert-and-launch-new-youth-service
There is no mention of saving money at all. While there may be a net
reduction in head-count, this does not necessarily translate into cost
savings. Let me spell this out - the head-count savings may well be
to pay for a new youth program that will cost more to broadcast that
the current Concert program.
So the reason they are making a "head-count saving"may be to pay for a
new youth programme, but the reason for cutting back on RNZ Concert is
nothing to do with money . . . O-kay . . . . . .
Tony
2020-02-11 01:30:55 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 10 Feb 2020 00:27:29 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sun, 09 Feb 2020 22:06:22 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
On Monday, February 10, 2020 at 3:14:22 PM UTC+13,
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 07 Feb 2020 20:39:02 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 07 Feb 2020 18:42:16 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon
dot net
Snipped for brevity
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Agreed, and it also explains why I also do not see this
as a
National
/ Labour issue. We do however have a problem with our
media who
leap
to cheap conclusions far too often, putting priorities on
conflict
over considered thought.
The review is wider than many realise;
This indicates it is not about money -
Post by Rich80105
Post by James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by Tony
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/119346104/youth-radio-killed-the-classical-star
I believe it has a long way to
go, and you are correct that Concert Radio is a small
part of a
larger
issue - rushes to judgement at this stage are natural but
inevitably
disappointing . . .
Making a judgement about this announcement is certainly
not
rushing
and
if
you
are disappointed in the judgement then you are presumably
happy
with
the
removal of one of the few classical outlets in
broadcasting, an
outlet
that
is
far more popular than most people believe.
If anything has been rushed it is this decision that
Faafoi now
sees
is
upsetting many people.
Thre have certainly been recommendations, but I am not
aware of
any
decisions - can you give any evidence to support that?
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/119346104/youth-radio-killed-the-classical-star
"We learned on Wednesday that RNZ plans to charge ahead with
what
it
calls
"the
biggest overhaul of its music services in years" and it
plans to
do
it
very
soon. "
"RNZ expects to have its long-established classical music
station
Concert
FM
off air by the end of May"
That is not a proposal, that is a decision. Ministerial
intervention
should
occur now to make this decision go away so that at the very
least
proper
consultation with the real stakeholders can occur.
Still no evidence that this is money related.
In terms of proportionality - i.e. cost per listener - to any
beancounter
Concert in its current form is insupportable. OK, yes, it
always
has
been
as I
for one know full well having been at the centre of its core
technical
operations for many years. But the jig is now up. Today is
the day
of
reckoning when a societal good must, it seems, kneel to the
economic
facts
of
21st century life.
Toby Manhire reports: "Twenty positions are to go as of March
25.
They
include
12 RNZ Concert roles and eight that span National or RNZ as a
whole,
including
producers and librarians. There would be four redeployments
among
those,
and
a
dozen new roles on the “new RNZ music brandᅵ€?, all
based in
Auckland."
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
https://thespinoff.co.nz/media/07-02-2020/rnz-is-overhauling-its-music-network-and-a-lot-of-people-are-mad-as-hell-about-it/
https://publicaddress.net/hardnews/rage-and-change-rnzs-music-problem/
Both Manhire and Brown are not to be lightly dismissed; both
have
plumbed
the
essence of it at some length, and not before time in my view.
I left the broadcasting industry more than 10 years ago, so
even now
for
me
as
for countless others, this is a highly emotive and emotional
issue.
Nevertheless, I'm trying to address it as dispassionately as I
can
because
by
and large I've always been acutely conscious of the inevitable
conflict
between
harsh economic reality and the public good; whereas I can tell
you
others
involved in the outfit have been anything but having become so
embedded
and
institutionalised as to be beyond all persuasion or redemption.
To their great credit, though, every single one of them has
been
dedicated
way
and beyond the call of duty while working almost the ambience
of a
yet-to-mature overall national mindset that still harbours a
derision
and
dismissiveness for anything even remotely smacking of
intellectualism
or
elitism.
For them - every one of them - this axe-blow to their unique
skills
and
dearly-held core values will amount to nothing less than a
living
bereavement,
even for those nearing retirement.
I don't argue with that.
Some things however are worth the cost.
I believe that this is one of those things.
You cannot really put a value on culture (an often overused
word but
appropriate here).
Arguably our defence force is unaffordable, as is our welfare
system,
as
are
"free" hospitals etc. Those things may well be more important
than
RNZ
concert
but replacing that with music for younger people and some
parliament
broadcasts
(both of which are well catered for already) is a slap in the
face
and
I
believe probably an excuse. Additionally the 170,000 weekly
listeners
were
not
consulted apparently; no doubt because "we know what they will
say so
let's
not
bother".
This one is worth a fight and I hope that happens.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/savernzconcert/?fref=nf
This covers a number of issues - including the reductions in
funding
for RNZ over the period of the previous government.
You can't avoid it can you?
This is not about poltical points, it is about art!
Post by Rich80105
. Looking for
numbers of listeners is a reasonable measure, but public service
sometimes has bottom lines that require services to be provided
that
are not totally commercial.
RNZ Concert is not in any way commercial and neither should it be.
Post by Rich80105
It is clear that final decisions have
_not_ been made, despite presumptions from the usual idiots. I
haven't
seen anything from Melissa Lee (Broadcasting) or Nicky Wagner
(Arts,
Culture and Heritage) - fair enough really as most Broadcasting
staff
involved were probably appointed during their time in government.
More political rhetoric, how about concentrating on the value or
otherwise
of
RNZ Concert?
Sure, just what value do you think it has - and don't be stupid about
the money; if nobody is listening then we cannot afford it. I believe
there is value in delivering a wide variety of music through the
various RNZ platforms, and I believe there is a responsibility to
deliver programmes which educate about music as well as enabling
us to
listen to music that would otherwise be hard to obtain - but to use
the Archives analogy, most of the music on Concert Radio can be
streamed from various sources. The reality is that Radio NZ see the
need to reduce staff by about 30, with a smaller number being
employed
on the new youth venture. That is a money issue. If you really
believe
we should be spending more and retainng those staff (some of whom are
specialists that would be hard to replace, the question is then
how it
is to be funded. Would you be prepared to have an increase in income
tax to fund it, Tony? Or do you want to a few people in poverty to
meet your feel-good needs?
Just read this you abusive twit.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/119386335/jacinda-ardern-on-rnz-concert-changes-we-dont-have-to-lose-one-for-the-other
Nothing to do with money and in defiance of government wishes.
Maybe the PM and Faafoi will fix it, it needs to be done.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
I believe some changes are probably necessary
Why
Post by Rich80105
but I know that if the
changes are made the reduction in broadcasting of New Zealand
artists
will affect our ability to develop and appreciate local talent.
It is not merely about NZ artists it is much more about culture
which
includes
the World's artists.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/arts/119395756/prominent-lawyers-prepare-legal-battle-against-rnz-in-attempt-to-save-concert
Demonstrates the lack of understanding by those who are trying to defend
RNZ
on
this disgraceful matter.
Thompson answers to the Board, not to the minister responsible.
That's the
job of Board Chairman Dr Jim Mather.
So, exactly what have we heard so far from the Chairman of the Radio New
Zealand Board? Hmmmm...........
Again, is it too much to expect that Mather will deliver a full, meaningful,
unambiguous **public** explanation of his chief executive's seemingly
cavalier
action? After all, Mather has been appointed top smell in an outfit that is
specifically, exclusively mandated to perform and deliver a one-off - yes,
unique - public service role in the nation's life.
Yet perhaps after the Christchurch meeting Mather will share his deepest
thoughts and insightful deliberations with the great unwashed.
Should I hold my breath? You be the judge.
To me. unless Thompson enjoys some kind of authorised autonomy (does he?),
such draconian behaviour smacks of a man exceeding his authority.
Some might even suggest that he's been "got at" by members of the political
commercial lobby, but of course I couldn't possibly comment.
And now
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/119403097/government-to-free-up-fm-frequency-to-keep-rnz-concert
Time for the government to tell their Crown Entity to think more, talk to all
of their stakeholders and their bosses before doing silly things. Maybe
that
is
now happening.
These processes do take time, but it is good that you are asking for
intervention immediately following evidence that intervention has
already happened. I argued above that all the rushes to judgement and
calls for "decisions" to be reversed were premature; my faith has been
well justified.
Crap. You said it was money, you said that changes were needed.
You were wrong.
Now go away and sulk.
Yes money was a key issue, and some changes are inevitable, but at
least we do now better understand the value of some of the work the
technicians in RNZ have been doing.
Rich, what is your post above in relation to? The decision by RNZ to
change the Concert program to accommodate a new youth-focused program
was never about money, but about freeing up resources for this new
program. I understand that the PM is miffed with RNZ for a premature
announcement when the government had asked for time to respond to the
RNZ Concert program decision.
The statements from RNZ make it clear that to develop the station they
want, they have to save money elsewhere. I have heard (but not seen in
print, that they were proposing to reduce staff by about 30, including
nearly all current presenters. Put "Save RNZ Concert"into facebook and
there is a public group which has links to a lot of articles -
including one on Kiwiblog headed "12 staff to run Concert FM is
ridiculous". "freeing up resources" means it is all about money!
https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/mediawatch/audio/2018732872/rnz-set-to-cut-back-concert-and-launch-new-youth-service
There is no mention of saving money at all. While there may be a net
reduction in head-count, this does not necessarily translate into cost
savings. Let me spell this out - the head-count savings may well be
to pay for a new youth program that will cost more to broadcast that
the current Concert program.
So the reason they are making a "head-count saving"may be to pay for a
new youth programme, but the reason for cutting back on RNZ Concert is
nothing to do with money . . . O-kay . . . . . .
Yes OK, absolutely correct.
There is a profound difference between an organisation that is running short of
money and decides to do something about it (anything really), and one that
decides to cut one avenue of activiuty to fund another.
The latter is not about money despite your lack of finacial acumen.
Rich80105
2020-02-11 03:56:21 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Mon, 10 Feb 2020 19:30:55 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 10 Feb 2020 00:27:29 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sun, 09 Feb 2020 22:06:22 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
On Monday, February 10, 2020 at 3:14:22 PM UTC+13,
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 07 Feb 2020 20:39:02 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot
net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 07 Feb 2020 18:42:16 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon
dot net
Snipped for brevity
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Agreed, and it also explains why I also do not see this
as a
National
/ Labour issue. We do however have a problem with our
media who
leap
to cheap conclusions far too often, putting priorities on
conflict
over considered thought.
The review is wider than many realise;
This indicates it is not about money -
Post by Rich80105
Post by James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by Tony
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/119346104/youth-radio-killed-the-classical-star
I believe it has a long way to
go, and you are correct that Concert Radio is a small
part of a
larger
issue - rushes to judgement at this stage are natural but
inevitably
disappointing . . .
Making a judgement about this announcement is certainly
not
rushing
and
if
you
are disappointed in the judgement then you are presumably
happy
with
the
removal of one of the few classical outlets in
broadcasting, an
outlet
that
is
far more popular than most people believe.
If anything has been rushed it is this decision that
Faafoi now
sees
is
upsetting many people.
Thre have certainly been recommendations, but I am not
aware of
any
decisions - can you give any evidence to support that?
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/119346104/youth-radio-killed-the-classical-star
"We learned on Wednesday that RNZ plans to charge ahead with
what
it
calls
"the
biggest overhaul of its music services in years" and it
plans to
do
it
very
soon. "
"RNZ expects to have its long-established classical music
station
Concert
FM
off air by the end of May"
That is not a proposal, that is a decision. Ministerial
intervention
should
occur now to make this decision go away so that at the very
least
proper
consultation with the real stakeholders can occur.
Still no evidence that this is money related.
In terms of proportionality - i.e. cost per listener - to any
beancounter
Concert in its current form is insupportable. OK, yes, it
always
has
been
as I
for one know full well having been at the centre of its core
technical
operations for many years. But the jig is now up. Today is
the day
of
reckoning when a societal good must, it seems, kneel to the
economic
facts
of
21st century life.
Toby Manhire reports: "Twenty positions are to go as of March
25.
They
include
12 RNZ Concert roles and eight that span National or RNZ as a
whole,
including
producers and librarians. There would be four redeployments
among
those,
and
a
dozen new roles on the “new RNZ music brand�€?, all
based in
Auckland."
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
https://thespinoff.co.nz/media/07-02-2020/rnz-is-overhauling-its-music-network-and-a-lot-of-people-are-mad-as-hell-about-it/
https://publicaddress.net/hardnews/rage-and-change-rnzs-music-problem/
Both Manhire and Brown are not to be lightly dismissed; both
have
plumbed
the
essence of it at some length, and not before time in my view.
I left the broadcasting industry more than 10 years ago, so
even now
for
me
as
for countless others, this is a highly emotive and emotional
issue.
Nevertheless, I'm trying to address it as dispassionately as I
can
because
by
and large I've always been acutely conscious of the inevitable
conflict
between
harsh economic reality and the public good; whereas I can tell
you
others
involved in the outfit have been anything but having become so
embedded
and
institutionalised as to be beyond all persuasion or redemption.
To their great credit, though, every single one of them has
been
dedicated
way
and beyond the call of duty while working almost the ambience
of a
yet-to-mature overall national mindset that still harbours a
derision
and
dismissiveness for anything even remotely smacking of
intellectualism
or
elitism.
For them - every one of them - this axe-blow to their unique
skills
and
dearly-held core values will amount to nothing less than a
living
bereavement,
even for those nearing retirement.
I don't argue with that.
Some things however are worth the cost.
I believe that this is one of those things.
You cannot really put a value on culture (an often overused
word but
appropriate here).
Arguably our defence force is unaffordable, as is our welfare
system,
as
are
"free" hospitals etc. Those things may well be more important
than
RNZ
concert
but replacing that with music for younger people and some
parliament
broadcasts
(both of which are well catered for already) is a slap in the
face
and
I
believe probably an excuse. Additionally the 170,000 weekly
listeners
were
not
consulted apparently; no doubt because "we know what they will
say so
let's
not
bother".
This one is worth a fight and I hope that happens.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/savernzconcert/?fref=nf
This covers a number of issues - including the reductions in
funding
for RNZ over the period of the previous government.
You can't avoid it can you?
This is not about poltical points, it is about art!
Post by Rich80105
. Looking for
numbers of listeners is a reasonable measure, but public service
sometimes has bottom lines that require services to be provided
that
are not totally commercial.
RNZ Concert is not in any way commercial and neither should it be.
Post by Rich80105
It is clear that final decisions have
_not_ been made, despite presumptions from the usual idiots. I
haven't
seen anything from Melissa Lee (Broadcasting) or Nicky Wagner
(Arts,
Culture and Heritage) - fair enough really as most Broadcasting
staff
involved were probably appointed during their time in government.
More political rhetoric, how about concentrating on the value or
otherwise
of
RNZ Concert?
Sure, just what value do you think it has - and don't be stupid
about
the money; if nobody is listening then we cannot afford it. I
believe
there is value in delivering a wide variety of music through the
various RNZ platforms, and I believe there is a responsibility to
deliver programmes which educate about music as well as enabling
us to
listen to music that would otherwise be hard to obtain - but to use
the Archives analogy, most of the music on Concert Radio can be
streamed from various sources. The reality is that Radio NZ see the
need to reduce staff by about 30, with a smaller number being
employed
on the new youth venture. That is a money issue. If you really
believe
we should be spending more and retainng those staff (some of whom
are
specialists that would be hard to replace, the question is then
how it
is to be funded. Would you be prepared to have an increase in
income
tax to fund it, Tony? Or do you want to a few people in poverty to
meet your feel-good needs?
Just read this you abusive twit.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/119386335/jacinda-ardern-on-rnz-concert-changes-we-dont-have-to-lose-one-for-the-other
Nothing to do with money and in defiance of government wishes.
Maybe the PM and Faafoi will fix it, it needs to be done.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
I believe some changes are probably necessary
Why
Post by Rich80105
but I know that if the
changes are made the reduction in broadcasting of New Zealand
artists
will affect our ability to develop and appreciate local talent.
It is not merely about NZ artists it is much more about culture
which
includes
the World's artists.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/arts/119395756/prominent-lawyers-prepare-legal-battle-against-rnz-in-attempt-to-save-concert
Demonstrates the lack of understanding by those who are trying to defend
RNZ
on
this disgraceful matter.
Thompson answers to the Board, not to the minister responsible.
That's the
job of Board Chairman Dr Jim Mather.
So, exactly what have we heard so far from the Chairman of the Radio New
Zealand Board? Hmmmm...........
Again, is it too much to expect that Mather will deliver a full,
meaningful,
unambiguous **public** explanation of his chief executive's seemingly
cavalier
action? After all, Mather has been appointed top smell in an outfit
that is
specifically, exclusively mandated to perform and deliver a one-off - yes,
unique - public service role in the nation's life.
Yet perhaps after the Christchurch meeting Mather will share his deepest
thoughts and insightful deliberations with the great unwashed.
Should I hold my breath? You be the judge.
To me. unless Thompson enjoys some kind of authorised autonomy (does he?),
such draconian behaviour smacks of a man exceeding his authority.
Some might even suggest that he's been "got at" by members of the political
commercial lobby, but of course I couldn't possibly comment.
And now
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/119403097/government-to-free-up-fm-frequency-to-keep-rnz-concert
Time for the government to tell their Crown Entity to think more, talk to all
of their stakeholders and their bosses before doing silly things. Maybe
that
is
now happening.
These processes do take time, but it is good that you are asking for
intervention immediately following evidence that intervention has
already happened. I argued above that all the rushes to judgement and
calls for "decisions" to be reversed were premature; my faith has been
well justified.
Crap. You said it was money, you said that changes were needed.
You were wrong.
Now go away and sulk.
Yes money was a key issue, and some changes are inevitable, but at
least we do now better understand the value of some of the work the
technicians in RNZ have been doing.
Rich, what is your post above in relation to? The decision by RNZ to
change the Concert program to accommodate a new youth-focused program
was never about money, but about freeing up resources for this new
program. I understand that the PM is miffed with RNZ for a premature
announcement when the government had asked for time to respond to the
RNZ Concert program decision.
The statements from RNZ make it clear that to develop the station they
want, they have to save money elsewhere. I have heard (but not seen in
print, that they were proposing to reduce staff by about 30, including
nearly all current presenters. Put "Save RNZ Concert"into facebook and
there is a public group which has links to a lot of articles -
including one on Kiwiblog headed "12 staff to run Concert FM is
ridiculous". "freeing up resources" means it is all about money!
https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/mediawatch/audio/2018732872/rnz-set-to-cut-back-concert-and-launch-new-youth-service
There is no mention of saving money at all. While there may be a net
reduction in head-count, this does not necessarily translate into cost
savings. Let me spell this out - the head-count savings may well be
to pay for a new youth program that will cost more to broadcast that
the current Concert program.
So the reason they are making a "head-count saving"may be to pay for a
new youth programme, but the reason for cutting back on RNZ Concert is
nothing to do with money . . . O-kay . . . . . .
Yes OK, absolutely correct.
There is a profound difference between an organisation that is running short of
money and decides to do something about it (anything really), and one that
decides to cut one avenue of activiuty to fund another.
The latter is not about money despite your lack of finacial acumen.
Well news today confirms that money was indeed a factor, but also that
legal action may not be necessary . . .
Tony
2020-02-11 04:00:24 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 10 Feb 2020 19:30:55 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Deleted for brevity.
Post by Rich80105
Well news today confirms that money was indeed a factor, but also that
legal action may not be necessary . . .
No evidence provided so probably, based on your previous behaviour, a lie.
Rich80105
2020-02-11 04:09:02 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Mon, 10 Feb 2020 22:00:24 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
dot nz> wrote:
Deleted for brevity.

So Tony lies again - no surprise really - after all he's just
following his party:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/119414501/national-lose-appeal-over-facebook-ad-ruled-misleading
Tony
2020-02-11 05:02:17 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 10 Feb 2020 22:00:24 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Deleted for brevity.
So Tony lies again - no surprise really - after all he's just
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/119414501/national-lose-appeal-over-facebook-ad-ruled-misleading
You are disgraceful. You lied about the Concert program and you have been
caught out.
If you had merely shut up all would have been fine. But no. you have to lie.
I have never lied here and you cannot demonstrate otherwise - there you are, go
for it. meet my challenge and prove me wrong but you cannot.
Your sad political rhetoric is worthy of Donald Trump who lies almost as much
as you do.
You made up the money argument and have been found out - again!
Go away you loser.
Crash
2020-02-12 01:43:51 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 10 Feb 2020 22:00:24 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Deleted for brevity.
So Tony lies again - no surprise really - after all he's just
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/119414501/national-lose-appeal-over-facebook-ad-ruled-misleading
You truly are displaying your inability to sustain a point of view
when you accuse someone of lying and then cite an unrelated article.
If you cannot stay on-topic, simply don't post.


--
Crash McBash
Rich80105
2020-02-12 03:24:01 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 10 Feb 2020 22:00:24 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Deleted for brevity.
So Tony lies again - no surprise really - after all he's just
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/119414501/national-lose-appeal-over-facebook-ad-ruled-misleading
You truly are displaying your inability to sustain a point of view
when you accuse someone of lying and then cite an unrelated article.
If you cannot stay on-topic, simply don't post.
No, just pointing out that Tony is following a long line of both
dishonesty and shady practices
John Bowes
2020-02-12 05:27:21 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 10 Feb 2020 22:00:24 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Deleted for brevity.
So Tony lies again - no surprise really - after all he's just
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/119414501/national-lose-appeal-over-facebook-ad-ruled-misleading
You truly are displaying your inability to sustain a point of view
when you accuse someone of lying and then cite an unrelated article.
If you cannot stay on-topic, simply don't post.
No, just pointing out that Tony is following a long line of both
dishonesty and shady practices
Wrong! That's YOU Rich who has a history of dishonesty, shady practice and smearing others!
Tony
2020-02-12 05:31:26 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 10 Feb 2020 22:00:24 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Deleted for brevity.
So Tony lies again - no surprise really - after all he's just
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/119414501/national-lose-appeal-over-facebook-ad-ruled-misleading
You truly are displaying your inability to sustain a point of view
when you accuse someone of lying and then cite an unrelated article.
If you cannot stay on-topic, simply don't post.
No, just pointing out that Tony is following a long line of both
dishonesty and shady practices
Liar, once more you cannot provide one bit of evidence to support that. You are
incapable of honest debate and you are a laughing stock here - deservedly so.
It is truly hard to understand how anybody can be so shallow as you.
Crash
2020-02-12 06:22:59 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 10 Feb 2020 22:00:24 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Deleted for brevity.
So Tony lies again - no surprise really - after all he's just
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/119414501/national-lose-appeal-over-facebook-ad-ruled-misleading
You truly are displaying your inability to sustain a point of view
when you accuse someone of lying and then cite an unrelated article.
If you cannot stay on-topic, simply don't post.
No, just pointing out that Tony is following a long line of both
dishonesty and shady practices
If you wish to do this, feel free to start a thread on this topic
rather that post an off-topic response in this thread. Can you
remember what this thread was about?


--
Crash McBash
James Christophers
2020-02-12 02:18:25 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 10 Feb 2020 19:30:55 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Deleted for brevity.
Post by Rich80105
Well news today confirms that money was indeed a factor, but also that
legal action may not be necessary . . .
No evidence provided so probably, based on your previous behaviour, a lie.
From what little detail is to hand, it looks as if the proposal involves a shifting of financial resources from one sector of RNZ's remit to a new one yet-to-be-formulated. So yes, semantically, money is involved, but such money is to be shuffled from Concert's allocation to the new channel within RNZ's existing budget.

Concert FM will retain its FM frequencies, but with format and programming changes meaning that redundancies are still in the cards.

Currently, it's an ever-moving feast.
Tony
2020-02-12 05:28:37 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 10 Feb 2020 19:30:55 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Deleted for brevity.
Post by Rich80105
Well news today confirms that money was indeed a factor, but also that
legal action may not be necessary . . .
No evidence provided so probably, based on your previous behaviour, a lie.
From what little detail is to hand, it looks as if the proposal involves a
shifting of financial resources from one sector of RNZ's remit to a new one
yet-to-be-formulated. So yes, semantically
Semantically is the whole point - the vast majority of enterprises do that sort
of thing from time to time but it is invariably driven by a desire to move in a
different direction not by shortage of profit.
Post by James Christophers
, money is involved, but such money is to be shuffled from Concert's
allocation to the new channel within RNZ's existing budget.
Concert FM will retain its FM frequencies, but with format and programming
changes meaning that redundancies are still in the cards.
Currently, it's an ever-moving feast.
James Christophers
2020-02-13 00:57:01 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 10 Feb 2020 19:30:55 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Deleted for brevity.
Post by Rich80105
Well news today confirms that money was indeed a factor, but also that
legal action may not be necessary . . .
No evidence provided so probably, based on your previous behaviour, a lie.
From what little detail is to hand, it looks as if the proposal involves a
shifting of financial resources from one sector of RNZ's remit to a new one
yet-to-be-formulated. So yes, semantically, money is involved, but such money is to be shuffled from Concert's allocation to the new channel within Concert's existing budget.
Semantically is the whole point - the vast majority of enterprises do that sort
of thing from time to time but it is invariably driven by a desire to move in a
different direction not by shortage of profit.
Why elbow in on the already conclusively elucidated when it adds nothing of further effective value?

For Concert FM's adherents, the facts of life are that, l like any CEO, Thompson is charged with returning maximum value (another semantically arguable term in this particular context) to RNZ's total audience and to his shareholders, the government.

A minority-serving "brand (uggh!)" has been summarily poleaxed, this after having been continuously - and it must be said expertly - nourished and sustained for something like 70 years. Naturally, it can only be a highly emotive issue, its brutal economic realities nothwithstanding.

And there's nothing like a head-on existential threat to raise the hackles of the devout, immersed and imbued as they are with their (perceived) esoteric and rarefied allegiances and unswerving commitments.
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Concert FM will retain its FM frequencies, but with format and programming
changes meaning that redundancies are still in the cards.
Currently, it's an ever-moving feast.
Tony
2020-02-13 01:42:16 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 10 Feb 2020 19:30:55 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Deleted for brevity.
Post by Rich80105
Well news today confirms that money was indeed a factor, but also that
legal action may not be necessary . . .
No evidence provided so probably, based on your previous behaviour, a lie.
From what little detail is to hand, it looks as if the proposal involves a
shifting of financial resources from one sector of RNZ's remit to a new one
yet-to-be-formulated. So yes, semantically, money is involved, but such
money is to be shuffled from Concert's allocation to the new channel within
Concert's existing budget.
Semantically is the whole point - the vast majority of enterprises do that sort
of thing from time to time but it is invariably driven by a desire to move in a
different direction not by shortage of profit.
Why elbow in on the already conclusively elucidated when it adds nothing of
further effective value?
No elbowing, perfectly reasonable comment.
Post by James Christophers
For Concert FM's adherents, the facts of life are that, l like any CEO,
Thompson is charged with returning maximum value (another semantically arguable
term in this particular context) to RNZ's total audience and to his
shareholders, the government.
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2020/02/13/1033994/rnz-bosses-face-crescendo-of-criticism-over-concert-plans
Almost incompetent decision without adequet consultation with all affected
parties.
Post by James Christophers
A minority-serving "brand (uggh!)" has been summarily poleaxed, this after
having been continuously - and it must be said expertly - nourished and
sustained for something like 70 years. Naturally, it can only be a highly
emotive issue, its brutal economic realities nothwithstanding.
No more a minority than many other public funded activities.
Post by James Christophers
And there's nothing like a head-on existential threat to raise the hackles of
the devout, immersed and imbued as they are with their (perceived) esoteric and
rarefied allegiances and unswerving commitments.
Whateva!
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Concert FM will retain its FM frequencies, but with format and programming
changes meaning that redundancies are still in the cards.
Currently, it's an ever-moving feast.
Crash
2020-02-12 01:39:38 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 10 Feb 2020 00:27:29 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sun, 09 Feb 2020 22:06:22 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 07 Feb 2020 20:39:02 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Fri, 07 Feb 2020 18:42:16 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Snipped for brevity
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Agreed, and it also explains why I also do not see this as a
National
/ Labour issue. We do however have a problem with our media who
leap
to cheap conclusions far too often, putting priorities on
conflict
over considered thought.
The review is wider than many realise;
This indicates it is not about money -
Post by Rich80105
Post by James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by Tony
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/119346104/youth-radio-killed-the-classical-star
I believe it has a long way to
go, and you are correct that Concert Radio is a small part of a
larger
issue - rushes to judgement at this stage are natural but
inevitably
disappointing . . .
Making a judgement about this announcement is certainly not
rushing
and
if
you
are disappointed in the judgement then you are presumably happy
with
the
removal of one of the few classical outlets in broadcasting, an
outlet
that
is
far more popular than most people believe.
If anything has been rushed it is this decision that Faafoi now
sees
is
upsetting many people.
Thre have certainly been recommendations, but I am not aware of
any
decisions - can you give any evidence to support that?
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/119346104/youth-radio-killed-the-classical-star
"We learned on Wednesday that RNZ plans to charge ahead with what
it
calls
"the
biggest overhaul of its music services in years" and it plans to
do
it
very
soon. "
"RNZ expects to have its long-established classical music station
Concert
FM
off air by the end of May"
That is not a proposal, that is a decision. Ministerial
intervention
should
occur now to make this decision go away so that at the very least
proper
consultation with the real stakeholders can occur.
Still no evidence that this is money related.
In terms of proportionality - i.e. cost per listener - to any
beancounter
Concert in its current form is insupportable. OK, yes, it always
has
been
as I
for one know full well having been at the centre of its core
technical
operations for many years. But the jig is now up. Today is the day
of
reckoning when a societal good must, it seems, kneel to the economic
facts
of
21st century life.
Toby Manhire reports: "Twenty positions are to go as of March 25.
They
include
12 RNZ Concert roles and eight that span National or RNZ as a whole,
including
producers and librarians. There would be four redeployments among
those,
and
a
dozen new roles on the “new RNZ music brand�€?, all based in
Auckland."
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
https://thespinoff.co.nz/media/07-02-2020/rnz-is-overhauling-its-music-network-and-a-lot-of-people-are-mad-as-hell-about-it/
https://publicaddress.net/hardnews/rage-and-change-rnzs-music-problem/
Both Manhire and Brown are not to be lightly dismissed; both have
plumbed
the
essence of it at some length, and not before time in my view.
I left the broadcasting industry more than 10 years ago, so even now
for
me
as
for countless others, this is a highly emotive and emotional issue.
Nevertheless, I'm trying to address it as dispassionately as I can
because
by
and large I've always been acutely conscious of the inevitable
conflict
between
harsh economic reality and the public good; whereas I can tell you
others
involved in the outfit have been anything but having become so
embedded
and
institutionalised as to be beyond all persuasion or redemption.
To their great credit, though, every single one of them has been
dedicated
way
and beyond the call of duty while working almost the ambience of a
yet-to-mature overall national mindset that still harbours a
derision
and
dismissiveness for anything even remotely smacking of
intellectualism
or
elitism.
For them - every one of them - this axe-blow to their unique skills
and
dearly-held core values will amount to nothing less than a living
bereavement,
even for those nearing retirement.
I don't argue with that.
Some things however are worth the cost.
I believe that this is one of those things.
You cannot really put a value on culture (an often overused word but
appropriate here).
Arguably our defence force is unaffordable, as is our welfare system,
as
are
"free" hospitals etc. Those things may well be more important than
RNZ
concert
but replacing that with music for younger people and some parliament
broadcasts
(both of which are well catered for already) is a slap in the face
and
I
believe probably an excuse. Additionally the 170,000 weekly listeners
were
not
consulted apparently; no doubt because "we know what they will say so
let's
not
bother".
This one is worth a fight and I hope that happens.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/savernzconcert/?fref=nf
This covers a number of issues - including the reductions in funding
for RNZ over the period of the previous government.
You can't avoid it can you?
This is not about poltical points, it is about art!
Post by Rich80105
. Looking for
numbers of listeners is a reasonable measure, but public service
sometimes has bottom lines that require services to be provided that
are not totally commercial.
RNZ Concert is not in any way commercial and neither should it be.
Post by Rich80105
It is clear that final decisions have
_not_ been made, despite presumptions from the usual idiots. I haven't
seen anything from Melissa Lee (Broadcasting) or Nicky Wagner (Arts,
Culture and Heritage) - fair enough really as most Broadcasting staff
involved were probably appointed during their time in government.
More political rhetoric, how about concentrating on the value or
otherwise
of
RNZ Concert?
Sure, just what value do you think it has - and don't be stupid about
the money; if nobody is listening then we cannot afford it. I believe
there is value in delivering a wide variety of music through the
various RNZ platforms, and I believe there is a responsibility to
deliver programmes which educate about music as well as enabling us to
listen to music that would otherwise be hard to obtain - but to use
the Archives analogy, most of the music on Concert Radio can be
streamed from various sources. The reality is that Radio NZ see the
need to reduce staff by about 30, with a smaller number being employed
on the new youth venture. That is a money issue. If you really believe
we should be spending more and retainng those staff (some of whom are
specialists that would be hard to replace, the question is then how it
is to be funded. Would you be prepared to have an increase in income
tax to fund it, Tony? Or do you want to a few people in poverty to
meet your feel-good needs?
Just read this you abusive twit.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/119386335/jacinda-ardern-on-rnz-concert-changes-we-dont-have-to-lose-one-for-the-other
Nothing to do with money and in defiance of government wishes.
Maybe the PM and Faafoi will fix it, it needs to be done.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
I believe some changes are probably necessary
Why
Post by Rich80105
but I know that if the
changes are made the reduction in broadcasting of New Zealand artists
will affect our ability to develop and appreciate local talent.
It is not merely about NZ artists it is much more about culture which
includes
the World's artists.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/arts/119395756/prominent-lawyers-prepare-legal-battle-against-rnz-in-attempt-to-save-concert
Demonstrates the lack of understanding by those who are trying to defend
RNZ
on
this disgraceful matter.
Thompson answers to the Board, not to the minister responsible. That's the
job of Board Chairman Dr Jim Mather.
So, exactly what have we heard so far from the Chairman of the Radio New
Zealand Board? Hmmmm...........
Again, is it too much to expect that Mather will deliver a full, meaningful,
unambiguous **public** explanation of his chief executive's seemingly
cavalier
action? After all, Mather has been appointed top smell in an outfit that is
specifically, exclusively mandated to perform and deliver a one-off - yes,
unique - public service role in the nation's life.
Yet perhaps after the Christchurch meeting Mather will share his deepest
thoughts and insightful deliberations with the great unwashed.
Should I hold my breath? You be the judge.
To me. unless Thompson enjoys some kind of authorised autonomy (does he?),
such draconian behaviour smacks of a man exceeding his authority.
Some might even suggest that he's been "got at" by members of the political
commercial lobby, but of course I couldn't possibly comment.
And now
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/119403097/government-to-free-up-fm-frequency-to-keep-rnz-concert
Time for the government to tell their Crown Entity to think more, talk to all
of their stakeholders and their bosses before doing silly things. Maybe that is
now happening.
These processes do take time, but it is good that you are asking for
intervention immediately following evidence that intervention has
already happened. I argued above that all the rushes to judgement and
calls for "decisions" to be reversed were premature; my faith has been
well justified.
Crap. You said it was money, you said that changes were needed.
You were wrong.
Now go away and sulk.
Yes money was a key issue, and some changes are inevitable, but at
least we do now better understand the value of some of the work the
technicians in RNZ have been doing.
Rich, what is your post above in relation to? The decision by RNZ to
change the Concert program to accommodate a new youth-focused program
was never about money, but about freeing up resources for this new
program. I understand that the PM is miffed with RNZ for a premature
announcement when the government had asked for time to respond to the
RNZ Concert program decision.
The statements from RNZ make it clear that to develop the station they
want, they have to save money elsewhere. I have heard (but not seen in
print, that they were proposing to reduce staff by about 30, including
nearly all current presenters. Put "Save RNZ Concert"into facebook and
there is a public group which has links to a lot of articles -
including one on Kiwiblog headed "12 staff to run Concert FM is
ridiculous". "freeing up resources" means it is all about money!
https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/mediawatch/audio/2018732872/rnz-set-to-cut-back-concert-and-launch-new-youth-service
There is no mention of saving money at all. While there may be a net
reduction in head-count, this does not necessarily translate into cost
savings. Let me spell this out - the head-count savings may well be
to pay for a new youth program that will cost more to broadcast that
the current Concert program.
So the reason they are making a "head-count saving"may be to pay for a
new youth programme, but the reason for cutting back on RNZ Concert is
nothing to do with money . . . O-kay . . . . . .
So Rich, you are admitting that your postulation about Concert FM
changes being to save mone, either whole or in part, is incorrect.
Well done.


--
Crash McBash
George
2020-02-10 19:04:23 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Mon, 10 Feb 2020 00:27:29 -0600
Post by Tony
Crap. You said it was money, you said that changes were needed.
You were wrong.
Now go away and sulk.
They all support fake news so damn them.
Shut them down.
Remove their financing, make them leaner, more honest and actually
reporting news.
If they can't shut them down
James Christophers
2020-02-06 21:06:15 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 05 Feb 2020 23:58:11 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Crash
On Wed, 05 Feb 2020 22:14:51 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
https://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/tv-radio/119320084/rnz-proposal-to-dial-down-concert-a-slap-in-the-face
There are dozens of stations that cater for young people as there should be.
Classical music is soul food.
Completely missing from that article is what problem is that the
proposal is a solution to.
Yes indeed.
Almost certainly money. Do you care enough to pay slightly higher
taxes to keep it?
Nothing about money in the article and I would have thought it would
have been mentioned if it was. As things stand, the proposed actions
are a solution in search of a problem.
I reckon the problem is staring everyone in the face:

“Radio New Zealand has chosen somebody with no broadcasting experience to lead it into an uncertain future.” David Cohen: The Listener Sep 2013.

Followed by:

“My management style has been one of doing things differently, and pushing aggressively in new directions amid the disruption.” Paul Thompson

So an aggressive pusher with no broadcasting experience is running New Zealand’s national public service broadcaster.

https://www.noted.co.nz/money/money-business/paul-thompson-radio-head

Cohen takes a look at the long-term cultural shifts and conflicts within RNZ which, summed up, could be described as a struggle to uphold and maintain some semblance of the Reithian ethos while simultaneously being onliged to return a dividend to the public shareholder, namely the government.

So, if I were asked when non-commercial Radio New Zealand began its slide towards its now-parlous state, I’d suggest it was that day in 1995 that “Ltd” was appended to its title, turning it into the corporatist model that has all too often bedevilled one public good after another, not only here but around the world.

In fact, you only have to switch over to our culturally and insultingly debased commercial radio and TV channels to ask yourself just one simple question:

Whatever happened to elevation of the consciousness?

(Over a near-lifetime in broadcasting, I have worked full-time for public service broadcasters BBC and Radio new Zealand, and also for more than 10 years with one of the UK's largest commercial TV studios in London.)
George
2020-02-07 00:45:28 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Thu, 6 Feb 2020 13:06:15 -0800 (PST)
Post by James Christophers
On Thu, 06 Feb 2020 21:03:38 +1300, Rich80105
Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 05 Feb 2020 23:58:11 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot
Post by Tony
Post by Crash
On Wed, 05 Feb 2020 22:14:51 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon
Post by Tony
https://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/tv-radio/119320084/rnz-proposal-to-dial-down-concert-a-slap-in-the-face
There are dozens of stations that cater for young people as
there should be. Classical music is soul food.
Completely missing from that article is what problem is that the
proposal is a solution to.
Yes indeed.
Almost certainly money. Do you care enough to pay slightly higher
taxes to keep it?
Nothing about money in the article and I would have thought it would
have been mentioned if it was. As things stand, the proposed
actions are a solution in search of a problem.
“Radio New Zealand has chosen somebody with no broadcasting
experience to lead it into an uncertain future.” David Cohen: The
Listener Sep 2013.
“My management style has been one of doing things differently, and
pushing aggressively in new directions amid the disruption.” Paul
Thompson
So an aggressive pusher with no broadcasting experience is running
New Zealand’s national public service broadcaster.
https://www.noted.co.nz/money/money-business/paul-thompson-radio-head
Cohen takes a look at the long-term cultural shifts and conflicts
within RNZ which, summed up, could be described as a struggle to
uphold and maintain some semblance of the Reithian ethos while
simultaneously being onliged to return a dividend to the public
shareholder, namely the government.
So, if I were asked when non-commercial Radio New Zealand began its
slide towards its now-parlous state, I’d suggest it was that day in
1995 that “Ltd” was appended to its title, turning it into the
corporatist model that has all too often bedevilled one public good
after another, not only here but around the world.
In fact, you only have to switch over to our culturally and
insultingly debased commercial radio and TV channels to ask yourself
Whatever happened to elevation of the consciousness?
(Over a near-lifetime in broadcasting, I have worked full-time for
public service broadcasters BBC and Radio new Zealand, and also for
more than 10 years with one of the UK's largest commercial TV studios
in London.)
Its all political now.
If you donrt wave the red flag your face dont fit
Rich80105
2020-02-07 01:26:27 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by George
On Thu, 6 Feb 2020 13:06:15 -0800 (PST)
On Thu, 06 Feb 2020 21:03:38 +1300, Rich80105
Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 05 Feb 2020 23:58:11 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot
Post by Tony
Post by Crash
On Wed, 05 Feb 2020 22:14:51 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon
Post by Tony
https://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/tv-radio/119320084/rnz-proposal-to-dial-down-concert-a-slap-in-the-face
There are dozens of stations that cater for young people as
there should be. Classical music is soul food.
Completely missing from that article is what problem is that the
proposal is a solution to.
Yes indeed.
Almost certainly money. Do you care enough to pay slightly higher
taxes to keep it?
Nothing about money in the article and I would have thought it would
have been mentioned if it was. As things stand, the proposed
actions are a solution in search of a problem.
“Radio New Zealand has chosen somebody with no broadcasting
experience to lead it into an uncertain future.” David Cohen: The
Listener Sep 2013.
“My management style has been one of doing things differently, and
pushing aggressively in new directions amid the disruption.” Paul
Thompson
So an aggressive pusher with no broadcasting experience is running
New Zealand’s national public service broadcaster.
https://www.noted.co.nz/money/money-business/paul-thompson-radio-head
Cohen takes a look at the long-term cultural shifts and conflicts
within RNZ which, summed up, could be described as a struggle to
uphold and maintain some semblance of the Reithian ethos while
simultaneously being onliged to return a dividend to the public
shareholder, namely the government.
So, if I were asked when non-commercial Radio New Zealand began its
slide towards its now-parlous state, I’d suggest it was that day in
1995 that “Ltd” was appended to its title, turning it into the
corporatist model that has all too often bedevilled one public good
after another, not only here but around the world.
In fact, you only have to switch over to our culturally and
insultingly debased commercial radio and TV channels to ask yourself
Whatever happened to elevation of the consciousness?
(Over a near-lifetime in broadcasting, I have worked full-time for
public service broadcasters BBC and Radio new Zealand, and also for
more than 10 years with one of the UK's largest commercial TV studios
in London.)
Its all political now.
If you donrt wave the red flag your face dont fit
In 1995 Jim Bolger was Prime Minister - red flag?
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