Discussion:
Should polls be banned a few weeks before voting?
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Rich80105
2020-10-09 09:58:23 UTC
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Apparently there is a bizarre story going around that with the greens
close to falling under 5%, and Labour nearly at 50%, some National
voters are voting for the National candidate for the electorate but
voting Labour for the party vote so that Labour will not need the
Green Party. Sounds silly for me but apparently they saw something on
Kiwiblog about it. If it was there I think its likely to be one excuse
that National wants for a poor showing, but it is known that Labour
voters have in the past given their party vote to the Green Party to
make sure they do not fall under 5%.

There will be able to be some analysis of votes by polling booth to
see to what extent that may be happening, but it prompted a suggestoin
that poll results should not be allowed to be published after say a
few weeks before voting starts. I'm inclined to not change that, but I
think we should change to preferential voting for electorate seats, a
lower threshold (4% was recommended by the Royal Commission), and not
having an electorate seat change the threshold for list seats.
Tony
2020-10-09 22:02:35 UTC
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Post by Rich80105
Apparently there is a bizarre story going around that with the greens
close to falling under 5%, and Labour nearly at 50%, some National
voters are voting for the National candidate for the electorate but
voting Labour for the party vote so that Labour will not need the
Green Party. Sounds silly for me but apparently they saw something on
Kiwiblog about it. If it was there I think its likely to be one excuse
that National wants for a poor showing, but it is known that Labour
voters have in the past given their party vote to the Green Party to
make sure they do not fall under 5%.
National don't need excuses, they will man up to the result whatever it is
(unlike Helen Clark).
Post by Rich80105
There will be able to be some analysis of votes by polling booth to
see to what extent that may be happening, but it prompted a suggestoin
that poll results should not be allowed to be published after say a
few weeks before voting starts. I'm inclined to not change that, but I
think we should change to preferential voting for electorate seats, a
lower threshold (4% was recommended by the Royal Commission), and not
having an electorate seat change the threshold for list seats.
Gordon
2020-10-10 03:20:47 UTC
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Permalink
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Apparently there is a bizarre story going around that with the greens
close to falling under 5%, and Labour nearly at 50%, some National
voters are voting for the National candidate for the electorate but
voting Labour for the party vote so that Labour will not need the
Green Party. Sounds silly for me but apparently they saw something on
Kiwiblog about it. If it was there I think its likely to be one excuse
that National wants for a poor showing, but it is known that Labour
voters have in the past given their party vote to the Green Party to
make sure they do not fall under 5%.
National don't need excuses, they will man up to the result whatever it is
(unlike Helen Clark).
Or just as they did last time.

And by the way the leader of the National Party is a woman, still she could
a) leave it to someone else or b) be rolled quick smart.
Wretch80105
2020-10-16 22:35:09 UTC
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Should polls be banned a few weeks before voting?
... but it prompted a suggestoin
that poll results should not be allowed to be published after say a
few weeks before voting starts.
This is an old Winston policy, formed when his poll ratings did not look
good many years ago. What a coincidence - not.

Peters pushing poll ban - March 13, 2001
http://tvnz.co.nz/content/32627/2556418/article.html

Opinion polls ban 'unwarranted' - 23 May, 2001
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/opinion-polls-ban-unwarranted/DW4QUFTVE6DMGEP3NHV4OJQQJQ/
Gordon
2020-10-10 03:18:11 UTC
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Post by Rich80105
Apparently there is a bizarre story going around that with the greens
close to falling under 5%, and Labour nearly at 50%, some National
voters are voting for the National candidate for the electorate but
voting Labour for the party vote so that Labour will not need the
Green Party. Sounds silly for me but apparently they saw something on
Kiwiblog about it. If it was there I think its likely to be one excuse
that National wants for a poor showing, but it is known that Labour
voters have in the past given their party vote to the Green Party to
make sure they do not fall under 5%.
There will be able to be some analysis of votes by polling booth to
see to what extent that may be happening, but it prompted a suggestoin
that poll results should not be allowed to be published after say a
few weeks before voting starts. I'm inclined to not change that, but I
think we should change to preferential voting for electorate seats, a
lower threshold (4% was recommended by the Royal Commission), and not
having an electorate seat change the threshold for list seats.
Take Epsom.

Labour said last time vote for National, this tine they say vote Labour.
This time National say vote ACT. (Electorate seats)

What ever happened to the idea that an MP represented his people. Also
people are supposed to be voting for whom they as an individual want. That
falls flat when Parties get started.

Lets just have some Party Lists and Party votes. KISS.
James Christophers
2020-10-10 04:29:54 UTC
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Permalink
Post by Gordon
Post by Rich80105
Apparently there is a bizarre story going around that with the greens
close to falling under 5%, and Labour nearly at 50%, some National
voters are voting for the National candidate for the electorate but
voting Labour for the party vote so that Labour will not need the
Green Party. Sounds silly for me but apparently they saw something on
Kiwiblog about it. If it was there I think its likely to be one excuse
that National wants for a poor showing, but it is known that Labour
voters have in the past given their party vote to the Green Party to
make sure they do not fall under 5%.
There will be able to be some analysis of votes by polling booth to
see to what extent that may be happening, but it prompted a suggestoin
that poll results should not be allowed to be published after say a
few weeks before voting starts. I'm inclined to not change that, but I
think we should change to preferential voting for electorate seats, a
lower threshold (4% was recommended by the Royal Commission), and not
having an electorate seat change the threshold for list seats.
Take Epsom.
Labour said last time vote for National, this tine they say vote Labour.
This time National say vote ACT. (Electorate seats)
What ever happened to the idea that an MP represented his people.
An MP represents his entire electorate - "his people".
Post by Gordon
Also
people are supposed to be voting for whom they as an individual want. That
falls flat when Parties get started.
Lets just have some Party Lists and Party votes. KISS.
My view is that the immutable Law of Self-fulfillment kicks in when it comes to polling unduly close to election day; which is why I favour the notion of a pre-agreed cutoff date - say, 4 weeks.

As things stand, Arden's option to delay the election may yet prove to be her undoing. It has given her notably modestly equipped antagonist all the time in the world to give full exposure to her manifold talents and qualities, demeanour and decorum, humility and subservience in her undying passion to be of service to the common people all of whom she truly believes she has the Devine right to govern.

Poor, poor Jacinda - what a gaffe, eh?
Rich80105
2020-10-10 05:58:18 UTC
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Permalink
Post by Gordon
Post by Rich80105
Apparently there is a bizarre story going around that with the greens
close to falling under 5%, and Labour nearly at 50%, some National
voters are voting for the National candidate for the electorate but
voting Labour for the party vote so that Labour will not need the
Green Party. Sounds silly for me but apparently they saw something on
Kiwiblog about it. If it was there I think its likely to be one excuse
that National wants for a poor showing, but it is known that Labour
voters have in the past given their party vote to the Green Party to
make sure they do not fall under 5%.
There will be able to be some analysis of votes by polling booth to
see to what extent that may be happening, but it prompted a suggestoin
that poll results should not be allowed to be published after say a
few weeks before voting starts. I'm inclined to not change that, but I
think we should change to preferential voting for electorate seats, a
lower threshold (4% was recommended by the Royal Commission), and not
having an electorate seat change the threshold for list seats.
Take Epsom.
Labour said last time vote for National, this tine they say vote Labour.
I can't recall whether that was Labour or just some Labour supporters
- it was for the electorate vote; they also said to vote Labour for
the party vote. There was the possibility of Goldsmith being elected
to the seat ahead of Seymour, with ACT then possibly being able to get
LIst MPs through the coat-tailing provision - ahead of parties like
TOP who got more party votes but no MPs. There is little chance of
that this year, although if National get enough electorate seats
Goldsmith may not get in on the list ...
Post by Gordon
This time National say vote ACT. (Electorate seats)
Yes, they also say to vote National for the list seats.
Post by Gordon
What ever happened to the idea that an MP represented his people. Also
people are supposed to be voting for whom they as an individual want. That
falls flat when Parties get started.
There are some who believe that Parliament needs more powers to curb
the executive - National in particular used to be very strong on party
discipline; all MPs were exptected to vote as they were told. The
problem for the two major parties is that differences of opinion
within a party can be seen as internal division, and as is the case
for the National party currently, that is seen as evidence of a party
in disarray.

It does seem to be very difficult to get elected as an independent
which could move us more towards your definition of an MP representing
his people; most MPs however believe that being a party members makes
it clearer how the electoate will be represented; it is then for the
electorate to choose. . .
Post by Gordon
Lets just have some Party Lists and Party votes. KISS.
George
2020-10-10 19:12:14 UTC
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Permalink
On 10 Oct 2020 03:18:11 GMT
Post by Gordon
Take Epsom.
Labour said last time vote for National, this tine they say vote
Labour. This time National say vote ACT. (Electorate seats)
What ever happened to the idea that an MP represented his people. Also
people are supposed to be voting for whom they as an individual want.
That falls flat when Parties get started.
Lets just have some Party Lists and Party votes. KISS.
And a sudden spending splurge within a month of an election by an
otherwise minor governmental party shouldn't happen
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Rich80105
2020-10-10 23:07:15 UTC
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Post by George
On 10 Oct 2020 03:18:11 GMT
Post by Gordon
Take Epsom.
Labour said last time vote for National, this tine they say vote
Labour. This time National say vote ACT. (Electorate seats)
What ever happened to the idea that an MP represented his people. Also
people are supposed to be voting for whom they as an individual want.
That falls flat when Parties get started.
Lets just have some Party Lists and Party votes. KISS.
And a sudden spending splurge within a month of an election by an
otherwise minor governmental party shouldn't happen
What spending are you referring to, George?
John Bowes
2020-10-11 07:36:54 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
Post by George
On 10 Oct 2020 03:18:11 GMT
Post by Gordon
Take Epsom.
Labour said last time vote for National, this tine they say vote
Labour. This time National say vote ACT. (Electorate seats)
What ever happened to the idea that an MP represented his people. Also
people are supposed to be voting for whom they as an individual want.
That falls flat when Parties get started.
Lets just have some Party Lists and Party votes. KISS.
And a sudden spending splurge within a month of an election by an
otherwise minor governmental party shouldn't happen
What spending are you referring to, George?
Get your head out of your fucking arse Rich! It was Winston's boy Shane Jones who announced $100 million for upgrading Marae around the country. Now stop acting like a fucking imbecile and start acting like a caring and well informed Marxist for once in your wasted fucking life!
Rich80105
2020-10-11 08:47:28 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Sun, 11 Oct 2020 00:36:54 -0700 (PDT), John Bowes
Post by John Bowes
Post by Rich80105
Post by George
On 10 Oct 2020 03:18:11 GMT
Post by Gordon
Take Epsom.
Labour said last time vote for National, this tine they say vote
Labour. This time National say vote ACT. (Electorate seats)
What ever happened to the idea that an MP represented his people. Also
people are supposed to be voting for whom they as an individual want.
That falls flat when Parties get started.
Lets just have some Party Lists and Party votes. KISS.
And a sudden spending splurge within a month of an election by an
otherwise minor governmental party shouldn't happen
What spending are you referring to, George?
Get your head out of your fucking arse Rich! It was Winston's boy Shane Jones who announced $100 million for upgrading Marae around the country. Now stop acting like a fucking imbecile and start acting like a caring and well informed Marxist for once in your wasted fucking life!
That spending is not from the NZ First party or even Shane Jones
himself, John Bowes. You don't seem to be able to get anything right
at present, do you?
John Bowes
2020-10-11 10:07:05 UTC
Reply
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Post by Rich80105
On Sun, 11 Oct 2020 00:36:54 -0700 (PDT), John Bowes
Post by John Bowes
Post by Rich80105
Post by George
On 10 Oct 2020 03:18:11 GMT
Post by Gordon
Take Epsom.
Labour said last time vote for National, this tine they say vote
Labour. This time National say vote ACT. (Electorate seats)
What ever happened to the idea that an MP represented his people. Also
people are supposed to be voting for whom they as an individual want.
That falls flat when Parties get started.
Lets just have some Party Lists and Party votes. KISS.
And a sudden spending splurge within a month of an election by an
otherwise minor governmental party shouldn't happen
What spending are you referring to, George?
Get your head out of your fucking arse Rich! It was Winston's boy Shane Jones who announced $100 million for upgrading Marae around the country. Now stop acting like a fucking imbecile and start acting like a caring and well informed Marxist for once in your wasted fucking life!
That spending is not from the NZ First party or even Shane Jones
himself, John Bowes. You don't seem to be able to get anything right
at present, do you?
Didn't say it was Rich. as usual your lack of comprehension has left you looking like a fucking imbecile! I know fucking well it wasn't! However it was shane Jones who made the announcement!
Rich80105
2020-10-11 19:25:42 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Sun, 11 Oct 2020 03:07:05 -0700 (PDT), John Bowes
Post by John Bowes
Post by Rich80105
On Sun, 11 Oct 2020 00:36:54 -0700 (PDT), John Bowes
Post by John Bowes
Post by Rich80105
Post by George
On 10 Oct 2020 03:18:11 GMT
Post by Gordon
Take Epsom.
Labour said last time vote for National, this tine they say vote
Labour. This time National say vote ACT. (Electorate seats)
What ever happened to the idea that an MP represented his people. Also
people are supposed to be voting for whom they as an individual want.
That falls flat when Parties get started.
Lets just have some Party Lists and Party votes. KISS.
And a sudden spending splurge within a month of an election by an
otherwise minor governmental party shouldn't happen
What spending are you referring to, George?
Get your head out of your fucking arse Rich! It was Winston's boy Shane Jones who announced $100 million for upgrading Marae around the country. Now stop acting like a fucking imbecile and start acting like a caring and well informed Marxist for once in your wasted fucking life!
That spending is not from the NZ First party or even Shane Jones
himself, John Bowes. You don't seem to be able to get anything right
at present, do you?
Didn't say it was Rich. as usual your lack of comprehension has left you looking like a fucking imbecile! I know fucking well it wasn't! However it was shane Jones who made the announcement!
So do you agree that the statement "And a sudden spending splurge
within a month of an election by an otherwise minor governmental party
shouldn't happen." was misleading as it was only an announcement and
the government spending has not yet happened?

Judith Collins is doubling down on a similar lie about a wealth tax
proposed by another party, with both the fact that it is not supported
by Labour, and yet another National mistake in the numbers. National
have shown themselved incompetent liars - a dangerous combination I am
sure you will agree, JohnB.
John Bowes
2020-10-12 05:27:37 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Sun, 11 Oct 2020 03:07:05 -0700 (PDT), John Bowes
Post by John Bowes
Post by Rich80105
On Sun, 11 Oct 2020 00:36:54 -0700 (PDT), John Bowes
Post by John Bowes
Post by Rich80105
Post by George
On 10 Oct 2020 03:18:11 GMT
Post by Gordon
Take Epsom.
Labour said last time vote for National, this tine they say vote
Labour. This time National say vote ACT. (Electorate seats)
What ever happened to the idea that an MP represented his people. Also
people are supposed to be voting for whom they as an individual want.
That falls flat when Parties get started.
Lets just have some Party Lists and Party votes. KISS.
And a sudden spending splurge within a month of an election by an
otherwise minor governmental party shouldn't happen
What spending are you referring to, George?
Get your head out of your fucking arse Rich! It was Winston's boy Shane Jones who announced $100 million for upgrading Marae around the country. Now stop acting like a fucking imbecile and start acting like a caring and well informed Marxist for once in your wasted fucking life!
That spending is not from the NZ First party or even Shane Jones
himself, John Bowes. You don't seem to be able to get anything right
at present, do you?
Didn't say it was Rich. as usual your lack of comprehension has left you looking like a fucking imbecile! I know fucking well it wasn't! However it was shane Jones who made the announcement!
So do you agree that the statement "And a sudden spending splurge
within a month of an election by an otherwise minor governmental party
shouldn't happen." was misleading as it was only an announcement and
the government spending has not yet happened?
Irrelevant as I never made that claim Rich!
Post by Rich80105
Judith Collins is doubling down on a similar lie about a wealth tax
proposed by another party, with both the fact that it is not supported
by Labour, and yet another National mistake in the numbers. National
have shown themselved incompetent liars - a dangerous combination I am
sure you will agree, JohnB.
Considering the Green's are hell bent on a wealth tax I'd say it's a guarantee if Ardern wants to have a clear majority if she gets the chance to lead a government for another three years! Yet again you forget the no new taxes from Ardern who then put a 10% levy/tax (depends whether people are as stupid as you Rich if you claim levy) on Auckland motorists to supposedly finance new tram services for Auckland! One of Labours MANY failures over the last three years! Incompetence pretty well describes the last three years Rich and so many of your own lies!
Rich80105
2020-10-12 05:43:17 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Sun, 11 Oct 2020 22:27:37 -0700 (PDT), John Bowes
Post by John Bowes
Post by Rich80105
On Sun, 11 Oct 2020 03:07:05 -0700 (PDT), John Bowes
Post by John Bowes
Post by Rich80105
On Sun, 11 Oct 2020 00:36:54 -0700 (PDT), John Bowes
Post by John Bowes
Post by Rich80105
Post by George
On 10 Oct 2020 03:18:11 GMT
Post by Gordon
Take Epsom.
Labour said last time vote for National, this tine they say vote
Labour. This time National say vote ACT. (Electorate seats)
What ever happened to the idea that an MP represented his people. Also
people are supposed to be voting for whom they as an individual want.
That falls flat when Parties get started.
Lets just have some Party Lists and Party votes. KISS.
And a sudden spending splurge within a month of an election by an
otherwise minor governmental party shouldn't happen
What spending are you referring to, George?
Get your head out of your fucking arse Rich! It was Winston's boy Shane Jones who announced $100 million for upgrading Marae around the country. Now stop acting like a fucking imbecile and start acting like a caring and well informed Marxist for once in your wasted fucking life!
That spending is not from the NZ First party or even Shane Jones
himself, John Bowes. You don't seem to be able to get anything right
at present, do you?
Didn't say it was Rich. as usual your lack of comprehension has left you looking like a fucking imbecile! I know fucking well it wasn't! However it was shane Jones who made the announcement!
So do you agree that the statement "And a sudden spending splurge
within a month of an election by an otherwise minor governmental party
shouldn't happen." was misleading as it was only an announcement and
the government spending has not yet happened?
Irrelevant as I never made that claim Rich!
Post by Rich80105
Judith Collins is doubling down on a similar lie about a wealth tax
proposed by another party, with both the fact that it is not supported
by Labour, and yet another National mistake in the numbers. National
have shown themselved incompetent liars - a dangerous combination I am
sure you will agree, JohnB.
Considering the Green's are hell bent on a wealth tax I'd say it's a guarantee if Ardern wants to have a clear majority if she gets the chance to lead a government for another three years! Yet again you forget the no new taxes from Ardern who then put a 10% levy/tax (depends whether people are as stupid as you Rich if you claim levy) on Auckland motorists to supposedly finance new tram services for Auckland! One of Labours MANY failures over the last three years! Incompetence pretty well describes the last three years Rich and so many of your own lies!
And National want to privatise Schools and Hospitals - "Right", John
Bowes?

Not even Judith Collins believes her own lies on the Wealth tax!
John Bowes
2020-10-12 10:33:51 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Sun, 11 Oct 2020 22:27:37 -0700 (PDT), John Bowes
Post by John Bowes
Post by Rich80105
On Sun, 11 Oct 2020 03:07:05 -0700 (PDT), John Bowes
Post by John Bowes
Post by Rich80105
On Sun, 11 Oct 2020 00:36:54 -0700 (PDT), John Bowes
Post by John Bowes
Post by Rich80105
Post by George
On 10 Oct 2020 03:18:11 GMT
Post by Gordon
Take Epsom.
Labour said last time vote for National, this tine they say vote
Labour. This time National say vote ACT. (Electorate seats)
What ever happened to the idea that an MP represented his people. Also
people are supposed to be voting for whom they as an individual want.
That falls flat when Parties get started.
Lets just have some Party Lists and Party votes. KISS.
And a sudden spending splurge within a month of an election by an
otherwise minor governmental party shouldn't happen
What spending are you referring to, George?
Get your head out of your fucking arse Rich! It was Winston's boy Shane Jones who announced $100 million for upgrading Marae around the country. Now stop acting like a fucking imbecile and start acting like a caring and well informed Marxist for once in your wasted fucking life!
That spending is not from the NZ First party or even Shane Jones
himself, John Bowes. You don't seem to be able to get anything right
at present, do you?
Didn't say it was Rich. as usual your lack of comprehension has left you looking like a fucking imbecile! I know fucking well it wasn't! However it was shane Jones who made the announcement!
So do you agree that the statement "And a sudden spending splurge
within a month of an election by an otherwise minor governmental party
shouldn't happen." was misleading as it was only an announcement and
the government spending has not yet happened?
Irrelevant as I never made that claim Rich!
Post by Rich80105
Judith Collins is doubling down on a similar lie about a wealth tax
proposed by another party, with both the fact that it is not supported
by Labour, and yet another National mistake in the numbers. National
have shown themselved incompetent liars - a dangerous combination I am
sure you will agree, JohnB.
Considering the Green's are hell bent on a wealth tax I'd say it's a guarantee if Ardern wants to have a clear majority if she gets the chance to lead a government for another three years! Yet again you forget the no new taxes from Ardern who then put a 10% levy/tax (depends whether people are as stupid as you Rich if you claim levy) on Auckland motorists to supposedly finance new tram services for Auckland! One of Labours MANY failures over the last three years! Incompetence pretty well describes the last three years Rich and so many of your own lies!
And National want to privatise Schools and Hospitals - "Right", John
Bowes?
Where the fuck did you find that Rich? Or is it just another of your and Labours stupid lies dredged up in a moment of intoxication?
Post by Rich80105
Not even Judith Collins believes her own lies on the Wealth tax!
What lies are those Rich? The ones where if Ardern wants the Greens to jump back into bed with her she won't have to resurrect the dream Winston squashed (one of the few things we can thank Winston for) because she'll have to do it to keep the Greens on side.

The trouble with you and your glorious leader Rich is neither of you think things through and never have!
George
2020-10-11 19:19:47 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Sun, 11 Oct 2020 00:36:54 -0700 (PDT)
Post by John Bowes
Post by Rich80105
Post by George
On 10 Oct 2020 03:18:11 GMT
Post by Gordon
Take Epsom.
Labour said last time vote for National, this tine they say vote
Labour. This time National say vote ACT. (Electorate seats)
What ever happened to the idea that an MP represented his
people. Also people are supposed to be voting for whom they as
an individual want. That falls flat when Parties get started.
Lets just have some Party Lists and Party votes. KISS.
And a sudden spending splurge within a month of an election by an
otherwise minor governmental party shouldn't happen
What spending are you referring to, George?
Get your head out of your fucking arse Rich! It was Winston's boy
Shane Jones who announced $100 million for upgrading Marae around the
country. Now stop acting like a fucking imbecile and start acting
like a caring and well informed Marxist for once in your wasted
fucking life!
Oh he knew.
But Fraser House has ordered the ignorant reaction to that piece of
political bribery and rich certainly is ignorant enough for their
purpose.
Last gasp of NZF
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