Discussion:
When unity of purpose and behaviour pay off.
(too old to reply)
James Christophers
2021-08-30 21:59:04 UTC
Permalink
From a local Guardian stringer last evening (Aug 30):

“For any significant policy change, you typically need a significant community consensus that crosses political boundaries...

Sound familiar..?

People facing a shared threat sometimes “rally around the flag” and put their trust in institutions and each other because they have few other options – but they can also respond with greater suspicion, developing conspiracy theories or scapegoats to blame.

Ditto..?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/30/even-as-new-zealand-battles-covid-trust-in-government-bucks-global-trend
Tony
2021-08-30 22:23:37 UTC
Permalink
“For any significant policy change, you typically need a significant
community consensus that crosses political boundaries...
Sound familiar..?
People facing a shared threat sometimes “rally around the flag” and put
their trust in institutions and each other because they have few other options
– but they can also respond with greater suspicion, developing conspiracy
theories or scapegoats to blame.
Ditto..?
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/30/even-as-new-zealand-battles-covid-trust-in-government-bucks-global-trend
If only it was true.
John Bowes
2021-08-30 22:42:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
“For any significant policy change, you typically need a significant
community consensus that crosses political boundaries...
Sound familiar..?
People facing a shared threat sometimes “rally around the flag” and put
their trust in institutions and each other because they have few other options
– but they can also respond with greater suspicion, developing conspiracy
theories or scapegoats to blame.
Ditto..?
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/30/even-as-new-zealand-battles-covid-trust-in-government-bucks-global-trend
If only it was true.
Well for starters my life doesn't revolve around the one pm political broadcast :)
JohnO
2021-08-30 22:50:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by James Christophers
“For any significant policy change, you typically need a significant community consensus that crosses political boundaries...
Sound familiar..?
People facing a shared threat sometimes “rally around the flag” and put their trust in institutions and each other because they have few other options – but they can also respond with greater suspicion, developing conspiracy theories or scapegoats to blame.
Ditto..?
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/30/even-as-new-zealand-battles-covid-trust-in-government-bucks-global-trend
Karl Du Fresne pretty much always gets it bang on:

https://karldufresne.blogspot.com/2021/08/testing-limits-of-spin.html

He's mandatory reading. Weekly.
Tony
2021-08-30 23:07:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by JohnO
“For any significant policy change, you typically need a significant
community consensus that crosses political boundaries...
Sound familiar..?
People facing a shared threat sometimes “rally around the flag” and put
their trust in institutions and each other because they have few other options
– but they can also respond with greater suspicion, developing conspiracy
theories or scapegoats to blame.
Ditto..?
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/30/even-as-new-zealand-battles-covid-trust-in-government-bucks-global-trend
https://karldufresne.blogspot.com/2021/08/testing-limits-of-spin.html
He's mandatory reading. Weekly.
He is excellent but some here have to put him down (it is part of their
political dogma to do so).
This summarises it for me.
"On three key metrics – testing, vaccinations and contract tracing – the
government’s performance has been, to put it politely, tardy and sub-optimal.
Protection at the border has been slack and the MIQ system appears to be a
shambles. Meanwhile vulnerable essential workers, from police to port
employees, have inexplicably been left unvaccinated."
James Christophers
2021-08-30 23:44:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony
Post by JohnO
Post by James Christophers
“For any significant policy change, you typically need a significant
community consensus that crosses political boundaries...
Sound familiar..?
People facing a shared threat sometimes “rally around the flag” and put
their trust in institutions and each other because they have few other options
– but they can also respond with greater suspicion, developing conspiracy
theories or scapegoats to blame.
Ditto..?
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/30/even-as-new-zealand-battles-covid-trust-in-government-bucks-global-trend
https://karldufresne.blogspot.com/2021/08/testing-limits-of-spin.html
He's mandatory reading. Weekly.
He is excellent but some here have to put him down (it is part of their
political dogma to do so).
This summarises it for me.
"On three key metrics – testing, vaccinations and contract tracing – the
government’s performance has been, to put it politely, tardy and sub-optimal.
Protection at the border has been slack and the MIQ system appears to be a
shambles. Meanwhile vulnerable essential workers, from police to port
employees, have inexplicably been left unvaccinated."
But it's always payoff that counts, and here it is (my parentheses):

"Ironically, the most effective PR line Ardern could run in validation of the government’s approach is one she’s unable [wisely, not wont] to use. She could point to the striking difference in Covid-19 mortality statistics between New Zealand (26 deaths) and Australia (999) or Britain (132,000).

"That’s a compelling vindication of New Zealand’s approach and a perfect answer to all the snide, condescending overseas [and local] commentaries about New Zealand being a “Covid prison” and an “isolated dystopia”. But of course it would never do to highlight those figures, because it would look like gloating at other countries’ misfortunes."

Zackly.

An astute Ardern routinely disavows the boofhead's self-validating "look over there" option. In a world united in combating a common foe, desperate cross-border politicking and finger-pointing achieves nothing except to further emphasise both the perpetrator's inadequacies and his administration's monumental failures. The self-unaware "bully" belittles and even further demeans himself while the "runt" - faults and all - gets the brownie points for his becoming prudence and restraint and - and most crucial of all - silence.
Tony
2021-08-31 00:14:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by JohnO
“For any significant policy change, you typically need a significant
community consensus that crosses political boundaries...
Sound familiar..?
People facing a shared threat sometimes “rally around the flag” and put
their trust in institutions and each other because they have few other options
– but they can also respond with greater suspicion, developing conspiracy
theories or scapegoats to blame.
Ditto..?
Post by James Christophers
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/30/even-as-new-zealand-battles-covid-trust-in-government-bucks-global-trend
https://karldufresne.blogspot.com/2021/08/testing-limits-of-spin.html
He's mandatory reading. Weekly.
He is excellent but some here have to put him down (it is part of their
political dogma to do so).
This summarises it for me.
"On three key metrics – testing, vaccinations and contract tracing – the
government’s performance has been, to put it politely, tardy and
sub-optimal.
Protection at the border has been slack and the MIQ system appears to be a
shambles. Meanwhile vulnerable essential workers, from police to port
employees, have inexplicably been left unvaccinated."
"Ironically, the most effective PR line Ardern could run in validation of the
government’s approach is one she’s unable [wisely, not wont] to use. She
could point to the striking difference in Covid-19 mortality statistics between
New Zealand (26 deaths) and Australia (999) or Britain (132,000).
"That’s a compelling vindication of New Zealand’s approach and a perfect
answer to all the snide, condescending overseas [and local] commentaries about
New Zealand being a “Covid prison” and an “isolated dystopia”. But of
course it would never do to highlight those figures, because it would look like
gloating at other countries’ misfortunes."
Zackly.
An astute Ardern routinely disavows the boofhead's self-validating "look over
there" option. In a world united in combating a common foe, desperate
cross-border politicking and finger-pointing achieves nothing except to further
emphasise both the perpetrator's inadequacies and his administration's
monumental failures. The self-unaware "bully" belittles and even further
demeans himself while the "runt" - faults and all - gets the brownie points for
his becoming prudence and restraint and - and most crucial of all - silence.
By all means demonstrate relative value of this government, I have no issue
with that.
But it does not in any way at all negate the things that they should have and
could have (emphasis on could have) done more competently.
So off topic again really.
James Christophers
2021-08-31 01:15:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by JohnO
Post by James Christophers
“For any significant policy change, you typically need a significant
community consensus that crosses political boundaries...
Sound familiar..?
People facing a shared threat sometimes “rally around the flag” and put
their trust in institutions and each other because they have few other options
– but they can also respond with greater suspicion, developing conspiracy
theories or scapegoats to blame.
Ditto..?
Post by James Christophers
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/30/even-as-new-zealand-battles-covid-trust-in-government-bucks-global-trend
https://karldufresne.blogspot.com/2021/08/testing-limits-of-spin.html
He's mandatory reading. Weekly.
He is excellent but some here have to put him down (it is part of their
political dogma to do so).
This summarises it for me.
"On three key metrics – testing, vaccinations and contract tracing – the
government’s performance has been, to put it politely, tardy and sub-optimal.
Protection at the border has been slack and the MIQ system appears to be a
shambles. Meanwhile vulnerable essential workers, from police to port
employees, have inexplicably been left unvaccinated."
"Ironically, the most effective PR line Ardern could run in validation of the
government’s approach is one she’s unable [wisely, not wont] to use. She
could point to the striking difference in Covid-19 mortality statistics between
New Zealand (26 deaths) and Australia (999) or Britain (132,000).
"That’s a compelling vindication of New Zealand’s approach and a perfect
answer to all the snide, condescending overseas [and local] commentaries about
New Zealand being a “Covid prison” and an “isolated dystopia”. But of
course it would never do to highlight those figures, because it would look like
gloating at other countries’ misfortunes."
Zackly.
An astute Ardern routinely disavows the boofhead's self-validating "look over
there" option. In a world united in combating a common foe, desperate
cross-border politicking and finger-pointing achieves nothing except to further
emphasise both the perpetrator's inadequacies and his administration's
monumental failures. The self-unaware "bully" belittles and even further
demeans himself while the "runt" - faults and all - gets the brownie points for
his becoming prudence and restraint and - and most crucial of all - silence.
By all means demonstrate relative value of this government, I have no issue
with that.
Once again, and as du Fresne has observed, it is about the difference in "values" between government leaders.
Post by Tony
But it does not in any way at all negate the things that they should have and
could have (emphasis on could have) done more competently.
Quite so, but that is not the pivotal point of "mandatory reading" du Fresne's payoff [1] - IOW, that quintessential prudence and political decorum of a kind with which Ardern is generously endowed but of which the stumbling, graceless Morrisons of this world appear totally bereft
Post by Tony
So off topic again really.
As you wish, but it can be of no concern since I am contributing to my own unmoderated topic as I rightfully see fit under Google's liberated, everyman rubric, "Conversation".
Tony
2021-08-31 01:38:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by JohnO
“For any significant policy change, you typically need a significant
community consensus that crosses political boundaries...
Sound familiar..?
People facing a shared threat sometimes “rally around the flag”
and
put
their trust in institutions and each other because they have few other options
– but they can also respond with greater suspicion, developing conspiracy
theories or scapegoats to blame.
Ditto..?
Post by James Christophers
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/30/even-as-new-zealand-battles-covid-trust-in-government-bucks-global-trend
https://karldufresne.blogspot.com/2021/08/testing-limits-of-spin.html
He's mandatory reading. Weekly.
He is excellent but some here have to put him down (it is part of their
political dogma to do so).
This summarises it for me.
"On three key metrics – testing, vaccinations and contract tracing – the
government’s performance has been, to put it politely, tardy and
sub-optimal.
Protection at the border has been slack and the MIQ system appears to be a
shambles. Meanwhile vulnerable essential workers, from police to port
employees, have inexplicably been left unvaccinated."
"Ironically, the most effective PR line Ardern could run in validation of the
government’s approach is one she’s unable [wisely, not wont] to use. She
could point to the striking difference in Covid-19 mortality statistics between
New Zealand (26 deaths) and Australia (999) or Britain (132,000).
"That’s a compelling vindication of New Zealand’s approach and a perfect
answer to all the snide, condescending overseas [and local] commentaries about
New Zealand being a “Covid prison” and an “isolated dystopia”. But
of
course it would never do to highlight those figures, because it would look like
gloating at other countries’ misfortunes."
Zackly.
An astute Ardern routinely disavows the boofhead's self-validating "look over
there" option. In a world united in combating a common foe, desperate
cross-border politicking and finger-pointing achieves nothing except to further
emphasise both the perpetrator's inadequacies and his administration's
monumental failures. The self-unaware "bully" belittles and even further
demeans himself while the "runt" - faults and all - gets the brownie points for
his becoming prudence and restraint and - and most crucial of all - silence.
By all means demonstrate relative value of this government, I have no issue
with that.
Once again, and as du Fresne has observed, it is about the difference in
"values" between government leaders.
Post by Tony
But it does not in any way at all negate the things that they should have and
could have (emphasis on could have) done more competently.
Quite so, but that is not the pivotal point of "mandatory reading" du Fresne's
payoff [1] - IOW, that quintessential prudence and political decorum of a kind
with which Ardern is generously endowed but of which the stumbling, graceless
Morrisons of this world appear totally bereft
Post by Tony
So off topic again really.
As you wish, but it can be of no concern since I am contributing to my own
unmoderated topic as I rightfully see fit under Google's liberated, everyman
rubric, "Conversation".
Good on you, enjoy.
Rich80105
2021-08-31 04:10:30 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 30 Aug 2021 18:15:06 -0700 (PDT), James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by JohnO
“For any significant policy change, you typically need a significant
community consensus that crosses political boundaries...
Sound familiar..?
People facing a shared threat sometimes “rally around the flag” and
put
their trust in institutions and each other because they have few other options
– but they can also respond with greater suspicion, developing
conspiracy
theories or scapegoats to blame.
Ditto..?
Post by James Christophers
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/30/even-as-new-zealand-battles-covid-trust-in-government-bucks-global-trend
https://karldufresne.blogspot.com/2021/08/testing-limits-of-spin.html
He's mandatory reading. Weekly.
He is excellent but some here have to put him down (it is part of their
political dogma to do so).
This summarises it for me.
"On three key metrics – testing, vaccinations and contract tracing – the
government’s performance has been, to put it politely, tardy and sub-optimal.
Protection at the border has been slack and the MIQ system appears to be a
shambles. Meanwhile vulnerable essential workers, from police to port
employees, have inexplicably been left unvaccinated."
"Ironically, the most effective PR line Ardern could run in validation of the
government’s approach is one she’s unable [wisely, not wont] to use. She
could point to the striking difference in Covid-19 mortality statistics between
New Zealand (26 deaths) and Australia (999) or Britain (132,000).
"That’s a compelling vindication of New Zealand’s approach and a perfect
answer to all the snide, condescending overseas [and local] commentaries about
New Zealand being a “Covid prison” and an “isolated dystopia”. But of
course it would never do to highlight those figures, because it would look like
gloating at other countries’ misfortunes."
Zackly.
An astute Ardern routinely disavows the boofhead's self-validating "look over
there" option. In a world united in combating a common foe, desperate
cross-border politicking and finger-pointing achieves nothing except to further
emphasise both the perpetrator's inadequacies and his administration's
monumental failures. The self-unaware "bully" belittles and even further
demeans himself while the "runt" - faults and all - gets the brownie points for
his becoming prudence and restraint and - and most crucial of all - silence.
By all means demonstrate relative value of this government, I have no issue
with that.
Once again, and as du Fresne has observed, it is about the difference in "values" between government leaders.
And for some those values are easier to advocate be followed by others
than themselves:

"National leader Judith Collins said on Wednesday that her MPs had a
general edict to not travel.

“I just think it's one of those things where MPs have to be very
careful to make sure that not only that they follow the rules, but
they follow the rules with stars basically. You can't let other New
Zealanders miss out," Collins said."

Judith Collins, referring to a Green MP in February:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300225918/green-mp-ricardo-menndez-march-currently-in-managed-isolation-after-visiting-family-in-mexico

Values and intent are important
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
But it does not in any way at all negate the things that they should have and
could have (emphasis on could have) done more competently.
Quite so, but that is not the pivotal point of "mandatory reading" du Fresne's payoff [1] - IOW, that quintessential prudence and political decorum of a kind with which Ardern is generously endowed but of which the stumbling, graceless Morrisons of this world appear totally bereft
Post by Tony
So off topic again really.
As you wish, but it can be of no concern since I am contributing to my own unmoderated topic as I rightfully see fit under Google's liberated, everyman rubric, "Conversation".
Tony
2021-08-31 04:35:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 30 Aug 2021 18:15:06 -0700 (PDT), James Christophers
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
Post by JohnO
“For any significant policy change, you typically need a significant
community consensus that crosses political boundaries...
Sound familiar..?
People facing a shared threat sometimes “rally around the flag” and
put
their trust in institutions and each other because they have few other
options
– but they can also respond with greater suspicion, developing
conspiracy
theories or scapegoats to blame.
Ditto..?
Post by James Christophers
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/30/even-as-new-zealand-battles-covid-trust-in-government-bucks-global-trend
https://karldufresne.blogspot.com/2021/08/testing-limits-of-spin.html
He's mandatory reading. Weekly.
He is excellent but some here have to put him down (it is part of their
political dogma to do so).
This summarises it for me.
"On three key metrics – testing, vaccinations and contract tracing – the
government’s performance has been, to put it politely, tardy and sub-optimal.
Protection at the border has been slack and the MIQ system appears to be a
shambles. Meanwhile vulnerable essential workers, from police to port
employees, have inexplicably been left unvaccinated."
"Ironically, the most effective PR line Ardern could run in validation of the
government’s approach is one she’s unable [wisely, not wont] to use. She
could point to the striking difference in Covid-19 mortality statistics between
New Zealand (26 deaths) and Australia (999) or Britain (132,000).
"That’s a compelling vindication of New Zealand’s approach and a perfect
answer to all the snide, condescending overseas [and local] commentaries about
New Zealand being a “Covid prison” and an “isolated dystopia”. But of
course it would never do to highlight those figures, because it would look like
gloating at other countries’ misfortunes."
Zackly.
An astute Ardern routinely disavows the boofhead's self-validating "look over
there" option. In a world united in combating a common foe, desperate
cross-border politicking and finger-pointing achieves nothing except to further
emphasise both the perpetrator's inadequacies and his administration's
monumental failures. The self-unaware "bully" belittles and even further
demeans himself while the "runt" - faults and all - gets the brownie points for
his becoming prudence and restraint and - and most crucial of all - silence.
By all means demonstrate relative value of this government, I have no issue
with that.
Once again, and as du Fresne has observed, it is about the difference in
"values" between government leaders.
And for some those values are easier to advocate be followed by others
"National leader Judith Collins said on Wednesday that her MPs had a
general edict to not travel.
“I just think it's one of those things where MPs have to be very
careful to make sure that not only that they follow the rules, but
they follow the rules with stars basically. You can't let other New
Zealanders miss out," Collins said."
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300225918/green-mp-ricardo-menndez-march-currently-in-managed-isolation-after-visiting-family-in-mexico
Values and intent are important
Yes they are.
And most important are the values of the government who on this occasion tried
to prevent parliament from sitting.
Collins and the Greens saw a higher purpose.
Post by Rich80105
Post by James Christophers
Post by Tony
But it does not in any way at all negate the things that they should have and
could have (emphasis on could have) done more competently.
Quite so, but that is not the pivotal point of "mandatory reading" du
Fresne's payoff [1] - IOW, that quintessential prudence and political decorum
of a kind with which Ardern is generously endowed but of which the stumbling,
graceless Morrisons of this world appear totally bereft
Post by Tony
So off topic again really.
As you wish, but it can be of no concern since I am contributing to my own
unmoderated topic as I rightfully see fit under Google's liberated, everyman
rubric, "Conversation".
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