Discussion:
Losing our independence
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Willy Nilly
2021-06-02 01:27:51 UTC
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Our mad government is placing NO priority on fuel security, rushing to
close Marsden Point which will make us totally dependent on overseas
suppliers:

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/443869/marsden-point-closure-could-expose-nz-to-fuel-security-risks-report-says

In case of regional war, supplies stop and we are screwed!

Next target for this government: NZ Steel. Why should we make our own
when we can import it?

This government is doing the opposite of what it's supposed to be
doing. Instead of keeping New Zealand strong, it's pulling away our
self-capability and making us entirely dependent on overseas supply.
One day, the Chinese will walk right in, because we will plead with
them to do so because we'll have lost our ability to do anything,
including keeping our electricity grid going -- the government is
killing that too, with their choking off of gas & oil production, not
to mention coal.

The media is as useless as the government / "opposition". We are
sleepwalking our way into indentiture.
John Bowes
2021-06-02 01:46:34 UTC
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Post by Willy Nilly
Our mad government is placing NO priority on fuel security, rushing to
close Marsden Point which will make us totally dependent on overseas
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/443869/marsden-point-closure-could-expose-nz-to-fuel-security-risks-report-says
In case of regional war, supplies stop and we are screwed!
Next target for this government: NZ Steel. Why should we make our own
when we can import it?
This government is doing the opposite of what it's supposed to be
doing. Instead of keeping New Zealand strong, it's pulling away our
self-capability and making us entirely dependent on overseas supply.
One day, the Chinese will walk right in, because we will plead with
them to do so because we'll have lost our ability to do anything,
including keeping our electricity grid going -- the government is
killing that too, with their choking off of gas & oil production, not
to mention coal.
The media is as useless as the government / "opposition". We are
sleepwalking our way into indentiture.
They're fools. Though many aren't aware that at present we import crude oil suitable for turning into diesel and petrol because the oil we produce in New Zealand isn't suitable for the job :)
James Christophers
2021-06-02 02:48:26 UTC
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Post by Willy Nilly
Our mad government is placing NO priority on fuel security, rushing to
close Marsden Point which will make us totally dependent on overseas
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/443869/marsden-point-closure-could-expose-nz-to-fuel-security-risks-report-says
In case of regional war, supplies stop and we are screwed!
Next target for this government: NZ Steel. Why should we make our own
when we can import it?
This government is doing the opposite of what it's supposed to be
doing. Instead of keeping New Zealand strong, it's pulling away our
self-capability and making us entirely dependent on overseas supply.
One day, the Chinese will walk right in, because we will plead with
them to do so because we'll have lost our ability to do anything,
including keeping our electricity grid going -- the government is
killing that too, with their choking off of gas & oil production, not
to mention coal.
The media is as useless as the government / "opposition". We are
sleepwalking our way into indentiture.
Look around you, folks - as if you even needed to bother! China has already long since "walked right in".

As I've previously remarked, simply remove every Chinese-made or part-made item from your home and see how you get on; this includes stripping out the wiring in your walls and loft and dumping anything and everything that plugs into it at the wall socket - that's right, via its nasty little unfused Chinese-spec plug.

All China has to do is steadily and remorselessly undermine and then destroy any country's economic power and independence by undercutting it and all others, and it will not only have it dancing dutifully to China's tune but also to China's price, not its.

Game over.
John Bowes
2021-06-02 03:49:18 UTC
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Post by James Christophers
Post by Willy Nilly
Our mad government is placing NO priority on fuel security, rushing to
close Marsden Point which will make us totally dependent on overseas
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/443869/marsden-point-closure-could-expose-nz-to-fuel-security-risks-report-says
In case of regional war, supplies stop and we are screwed!
Next target for this government: NZ Steel. Why should we make our own
when we can import it?
This government is doing the opposite of what it's supposed to be
doing. Instead of keeping New Zealand strong, it's pulling away our
self-capability and making us entirely dependent on overseas supply.
One day, the Chinese will walk right in, because we will plead with
them to do so because we'll have lost our ability to do anything,
including keeping our electricity grid going -- the government is
killing that too, with their choking off of gas & oil production, not
to mention coal.
The media is as useless as the government / "opposition". We are
sleepwalking our way into indentiture.
Look around you, folks - as if you even needed to bother! China has already long since "walked right in".
As I've previously remarked, simply remove every Chinese-made or part-made item from your home and see how you get on; this includes stripping out the wiring in your walls and loft and dumping anything and everything that plugs into it at the wall socket - that's right, via its nasty little unfused Chinese-spec plug.
All China has to do is steadily and remorselessly undermine and then destroy any country's economic power and independence by undercutting it and all others, and it will not only have it dancing dutifully to China's tune but also to China's price, not its.
Game over.
Only for those with new houses (twenty odd years old that is)
George Black
2021-06-02 19:54:41 UTC
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Permalink
Post by John Bowes
Post by James Christophers
Post by Willy Nilly
Our mad government is placing NO priority on fuel security, rushing to
close Marsden Point which will make us totally dependent on overseas
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/443869/marsden-point-closure-could-expose-nz-to-fuel-security-risks-report-says
In case of regional war, supplies stop and we are screwed!
Next target for this government: NZ Steel. Why should we make our own
when we can import it?
This government is doing the opposite of what it's supposed to be
doing. Instead of keeping New Zealand strong, it's pulling away our
self-capability and making us entirely dependent on overseas supply.
One day, the Chinese will walk right in, because we will plead with
them to do so because we'll have lost our ability to do anything,
including keeping our electricity grid going -- the government is
killing that too, with their choking off of gas & oil production, not
to mention coal.
The media is as useless as the government / "opposition". We are
sleepwalking our way into indentiture.
Look around you, folks - as if you even needed to bother! China has already long since "walked right in".
As I've previously remarked, simply remove every Chinese-made or part-made item from your home and see how you get on; this includes stripping out the wiring in your walls and loft and dumping anything and everything that plugs into it at the wall socket - that's right, via its nasty little unfused Chinese-spec plug.
All China has to do is steadily and remorselessly undermine and then destroy any country's economic power and independence by undercutting it and all others, and it will not only have it dancing dutifully to China's tune but also to China's price, not its.
Game over.
Only for those with new houses (twenty odd years old that is)
My house is 105 years old.
May have been a Chinese chippie helped build it.....
What say at the same time we get back all the timber, wool and flax
that we've exported ?
Rich80105
2021-06-02 23:07:10 UTC
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Permalink
Post by George Black
Post by John Bowes
Post by James Christophers
Post by Willy Nilly
Our mad government is placing NO priority on fuel security, rushing to
close Marsden Point which will make us totally dependent on overseas
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/443869/marsden-point-closure-could-expose-nz-to-fuel-security-risks-report-says
In case of regional war, supplies stop and we are screwed!
Next target for this government: NZ Steel. Why should we make our own
when we can import it?
This government is doing the opposite of what it's supposed to be
doing. Instead of keeping New Zealand strong, it's pulling away our
self-capability and making us entirely dependent on overseas supply.
One day, the Chinese will walk right in, because we will plead with
them to do so because we'll have lost our ability to do anything,
including keeping our electricity grid going -- the government is
killing that too, with their choking off of gas & oil production, not
to mention coal.
The media is as useless as the government / "opposition". We are
sleepwalking our way into indentiture.
Look around you, folks - as if you even needed to bother! China has already long since "walked right in".
As I've previously remarked, simply remove every Chinese-made or part-made item from your home and see how you get on; this includes stripping out the wiring in your walls and loft and dumping anything and everything that plugs into it at the wall socket - that's right, via its nasty little unfused Chinese-spec plug.
All China has to do is steadily and remorselessly undermine and then destroy any country's economic power and independence by undercutting it and all others, and it will not only have it dancing dutifully to China's tune but also to China's price, not its.
Game over.
Only for those with new houses (twenty odd years old that is)
My house is 105 years old.
May have been a Chinese chippie helped build it.....
What say at the same time we get back all the timber, wool and flax
that we've exported ?
Mine was built in 1906, but like Lincoln's axe has had some materials
replaced over the years. There is no doubt htat globalisation can give
rise to problems - seeing piles of logs on our wharves while our
builders are having to import treated timber is a little galling, but
I understand part of it isour inability in a post covid time to get
imports of the chemicals needed for wood preservation . . . Deliveries
from China are also slower than they were.

Importing crude oil so that we can refine it here turns out to be more
expensive than importing refined fuel. Yes there are some risks to
retaining the current system or changing; but it has nothing to do
with the independence of New Zealand

Willy Nilly
2021-06-02 04:30:29 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Look around you, folks - as if you even needed to bother! China has already=
long since "walked right in".
As I've previously remarked, simply remove every Chinese-made or part-made =
item from your home and see how you get on; this includes stripping out the=
wiring in your walls and loft and dumping anything and everything that plu=
gs into it at the wall socket - that's right, via its nasty little unfused =
Chinese-spec plug.
All China has to do is steadily and remorselessly undermine and then destro=
y any country's economic power and independence by undercutting it and all =
others, and it will not only have it dancing dutifully to China's tune but =
also to China's price, not its.
Game over.
Well that's right, but I'm more looking ahead to when China troupes
into NZ and dismisses Parliament in exchange for getting our
electricity grid working again. You know, a more explicit era. It
would be a good idea to try to defer that? No?

Or is our government just a placeholder for that time to come? Is it
in anyone's manifesto?
Rich80105
2021-06-02 05:44:39 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Willy Nilly
Look around you, folks - as if you even needed to bother! China has already=
long since "walked right in".
As I've previously remarked, simply remove every Chinese-made or part-made =
item from your home and see how you get on; this includes stripping out the=
wiring in your walls and loft and dumping anything and everything that plu=
gs into it at the wall socket - that's right, via its nasty little unfused =
Chinese-spec plug.
All China has to do is steadily and remorselessly undermine and then destro=
y any country's economic power and independence by undercutting it and all =
others, and it will not only have it dancing dutifully to China's tune but =
also to China's price, not its.
Game over.
Well that's right, but I'm more looking ahead to when China troupes
into NZ and dismisses Parliament in exchange for getting our
electricity grid working again. You know, a more explicit era. It
would be a good idea to try to defer that? No?
What has happened or you expect to happen with our electricity grid,
Willy Nilly?
Post by Willy Nilly
Or is our government just a placeholder for that time to come? Is it
in anyone's manifesto?
Is were you expecting to be in someone's manfesto?

To go back to teh Subject of this thread, how is it thought htat New
Zealand may be losing our independence? I accept that our country is
interdependent with the rest ofthe world - that has been the case for
many many years, but a real problem (or potential problem) with
independence does not seem to have been identified.
Crash
2021-06-02 05:09:45 UTC
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Permalink
Post by Willy Nilly
Our mad government is placing NO priority on fuel security, rushing to
close Marsden Point which will make us totally dependent on overseas
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/443869/marsden-point-closure-could-expose-nz-to-fuel-security-risks-report-says
Its a minor point but the Marsden Point refinery is privately owned.
What its role is in our economy is a matter for the owners, not the
Government to determine.
Post by Willy Nilly
In case of regional war, supplies stop and we are screwed!
So closing the refinery has no effect. All products produced at the
refinery are from 100% imported product. It is what is imported that
will change (crude oil replaced with refined products).
Post by Willy Nilly
Next target for this government: NZ Steel. Why should we make our own
when we can import it?
NZ Steel is owned by an Australian company. No Government
intervention is possible.
Post by Willy Nilly
This government is doing the opposite of what it's supposed to be
doing. Instead of keeping New Zealand strong, it's pulling away our
self-capability and making us entirely dependent on overseas supply.
We have been down that track before. Do you not recall the times when
the only TVs available were assembled in a factory in Waihi and
branded as Philips or Pye? Do you recall the days when all cars were
assembled in NZ but could only be bought by owners of foreign
currency? The vast majority of them did not have air con or power
steering available, even as options. You want to go back to this?
Note that for these any almost any other manufactured product, nothing
was ever made here from scratch and accordingly we were not
self-sufficient back then either.
Post by Willy Nilly
One day, the Chinese will walk right in, because we will plead with
them to do so because we'll have lost our ability to do anything,
including keeping our electricity grid going -- the government is
killing that too, with their choking off of gas & oil production, not
to mention coal.
You are as incoherent as you are incorrect. Production continues but
exploration has ceased. Ultimately this may lead to future problems
with production but not yet and not in the near future. What the
Government has done is no more than appearing to support Climate
Change activists.
Post by Willy Nilly
The media is as useless as the government / "opposition". We are
sleepwalking our way into indentiture.
None of these changes are recent. We have freely traded with the
world now for over 3 decades, replacing protected NZ manufacturers who
produced expensive, inferior, limited product ranges with the freedom
to import and sell a wider range of cheaper products, many of which
are very good quality.


--
Crash McBash
Rich80105
2021-06-02 05:46:07 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Crash
Post by Willy Nilly
Our mad government is placing NO priority on fuel security, rushing to
close Marsden Point which will make us totally dependent on overseas
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/443869/marsden-point-closure-could-expose-nz-to-fuel-security-risks-report-says
Its a minor point but the Marsden Point refinery is privately owned.
What its role is in our economy is a matter for the owners, not the
Government to determine.
Post by Willy Nilly
In case of regional war, supplies stop and we are screwed!
So closing the refinery has no effect. All products produced at the
refinery are from 100% imported product. It is what is imported that
will change (crude oil replaced with refined products).
Post by Willy Nilly
Next target for this government: NZ Steel. Why should we make our own
when we can import it?
NZ Steel is owned by an Australian company. No Government
intervention is possible.
Post by Willy Nilly
This government is doing the opposite of what it's supposed to be
doing. Instead of keeping New Zealand strong, it's pulling away our
self-capability and making us entirely dependent on overseas supply.
We have been down that track before. Do you not recall the times when
the only TVs available were assembled in a factory in Waihi and
branded as Philips or Pye? Do you recall the days when all cars were
assembled in NZ but could only be bought by owners of foreign
currency? The vast majority of them did not have air con or power
steering available, even as options. You want to go back to this?
Note that for these any almost any other manufactured product, nothing
was ever made here from scratch and accordingly we were not
self-sufficient back then either.
Post by Willy Nilly
One day, the Chinese will walk right in, because we will plead with
them to do so because we'll have lost our ability to do anything,
including keeping our electricity grid going -- the government is
killing that too, with their choking off of gas & oil production, not
to mention coal.
You are as incoherent as you are incorrect. Production continues but
exploration has ceased. Ultimately this may lead to future problems
with production but not yet and not in the near future. What the
Government has done is no more than appearing to support Climate
Change activists.
Post by Willy Nilly
The media is as useless as the government / "opposition". We are
sleepwalking our way into indentiture.
None of these changes are recent. We have freely traded with the
world now for over 3 decades, replacing protected NZ manufacturers who
produced expensive, inferior, limited product ranges with the freedom
to import and sell a wider range of cheaper products, many of which
are very good quality.
Thank you Crash - a good response.
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