Discussion:
Time to re-consider
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Euripides
2021-09-25 21:34:43 UTC
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Permalink
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/300414808/sir-john-key-we-need-to-break-free-of-the-hermit-kingdom-and-stop-ruling-by-fear-on-covid19
90% is unlikely to be achieved without overt coercion, that would be a
serious thing.
Already we have been "told" what to do by the public servants we
elected. It looks like they have forgotten who they work for.
It is time to take stock and set some dates, stick to them and accept
that this disease is not going away and is not as dangerous as we have
been told. Government by fear.
Gordon
2021-09-25 22:49:02 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Euripides
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/300414808/sir-john-key-we-need-to-break-free-of-the-hermit-kingdom-and-stop-ruling-by-fear-on-covid19
90% is unlikely to be achieved without overt coercion, that would be a
serious thing.
Coercion/threating people will not achieve the 90%. All it will do is to set
up a us and them situation with the media stirring it up to higher levels.
One only has to look to the USA to see where it is possible to end up.

So if we take a big step back. It is clear that we have to get somewhere as
close as we can to the old normal. Border open and jet planes buzzing hither
and yond. People getting drunk in groups, other doing social drinking and
social groups of people meetings and having a good time.

So how do we get there? I agree with Sir John's points that we need a plan.

Overall, the Government sets a date for vaccinations to be completed by.
Lets say 1 January 2022, the new year. This assumes that the 60,000 day can
be maintained.

Encourage people to get vaccinated. Ensure all have the oppotunity to get
vaccinated.

Set out the stages of opening up, along with the dates. Assumes that deaths
do not hit a rate of 7000 per year say.

Then lets do this.
Post by Euripides
Already we have been "told" what to do by the public servants we
elected. It looks like they have forgotten who they work for.
It is time to take stock and set some dates, stick to them and accept
that this disease is not going away and is not as dangerous as we have
been told. Government by fear.
Government by lack of adoption to things changing. A case of this plan
worked so we will use it, not realising that the world has changed, things
are evolving.

Sir John's example of Apollo 13 is not that good as NASA never thought that
the stirring of the O2 tank could cause an explosion. Something had to be
done quickly. Covid gives alot more time to think things through and there
are examples from the rest of the world. Apollo 13 was alone. Nevertheless
the question of what does this Government plan to to, and when remains?

We are reaching a stage of everything drifting. The Governemt needs to get a
plan, tell it to the people before too many lose faith in the Government.
Euripides
2021-09-25 23:50:36 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Gordon
Post by Euripides
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/300414808/sir-john-key-we-need-to-break-free-of-the-hermit-kingdom-and-stop-ruling-by-fear-on-covid19
90% is unlikely to be achieved without overt coercion, that would be a
serious thing.
Coercion/threating people will not achieve the 90%. All it will do is to set
up a us and them situation with the media stirring it up to higher levels.
One only has to look to the USA to see where it is possible to end up.
So if we take a big step back. It is clear that we have to get somewhere as
close as we can to the old normal. Border open and jet planes buzzing hither
and yond. People getting drunk in groups, other doing social drinking and
social groups of people meetings and having a good time.
So how do we get there? I agree with Sir John's points that we need a plan.
Overall, the Government sets a date for vaccinations to be completed by.
Lets say 1 January 2022, the new year. This assumes that the 60,000 day can
be maintained.
Encourage people to get vaccinated. Ensure all have the oppotunity to get
vaccinated.
Set out the stages of opening up, along with the dates. Assumes that deaths
do not hit a rate of 7000 per year say.
Then lets do this.
Post by Euripides
Already we have been "told" what to do by the public servants we
elected. It looks like they have forgotten who they work for.
It is time to take stock and set some dates, stick to them and accept
that this disease is not going away and is not as dangerous as we have
been told. Government by fear.
Government by lack of adoption to things changing. A case of this plan
worked so we will use it, not realising that the world has changed, things
are evolving.
Sir John's example of Apollo 13 is not that good as NASA never thought that
the stirring of the O2 tank could cause an explosion. Something had to be
done quickly. Covid gives alot more time to think things through and there
are examples from the rest of the world. Apollo 13 was alone. Nevertheless
the question of what does this Government plan to to, and when remains?
We are reaching a stage of everything drifting. The Governemt needs to get a
plan, tell it to the people before too many lose faith in the Government.
For a good chuckle read this desperate nonsense.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-delta-outbreak-john-keys-pandemic-response-view-an-insult-to-new-zealanders-chris-hipkins-says/3Y7ZRGWG34WCQH7LQ4B5AL6GAQ/
For another entirely predictable opinion.
Interesting that Hipkins resorts to the insult himself in trying to
answer Key.
And where on Earth did he get 1 in 6 will need to go to hospital? Our
experience and the experiences of other countries is a fraction of that.
Hipkins is the real insult.
Rich80105
2021-09-26 00:20:09 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Euripides
Post by Gordon
Post by Euripides
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/300414808/sir-john-key-we-need-to-break-free-of-the-hermit-kingdom-and-stop-ruling-by-fear-on-covid19
90% is unlikely to be achieved without overt coercion, that would be a
serious thing.
Coercion/threating people will not achieve the 90%. All it will do is to set
up a us and them situation with the media stirring it up to higher levels.
One only has to look to the USA to see where it is possible to end up.
So if we take a big step back. It is clear that we have to get somewhere as
close as we can to the old normal. Border open and jet planes buzzing hither
and yond. People getting drunk in groups, other doing social drinking and
social groups of people meetings and having a good time.
So how do we get there? I agree with Sir John's points that we need a plan.
Overall, the Government sets a date for vaccinations to be completed by.
Lets say 1 January 2022, the new year. This assumes that the 60,000 day can
be maintained.
Encourage people to get vaccinated. Ensure all have the oppotunity to get
vaccinated.
Set out the stages of opening up, along with the dates. Assumes that deaths
do not hit a rate of 7000 per year say.
Then lets do this.
Post by Euripides
Already we have been "told" what to do by the public servants we
elected. It looks like they have forgotten who they work for.
It is time to take stock and set some dates, stick to them and accept
that this disease is not going away and is not as dangerous as we have
been told. Government by fear.
Government by lack of adoption to things changing. A case of this plan
worked so we will use it, not realising that the world has changed, things
are evolving.
Sir John's example of Apollo 13 is not that good as NASA never thought that
the stirring of the O2 tank could cause an explosion. Something had to be
done quickly. Covid gives alot more time to think things through and there
are examples from the rest of the world. Apollo 13 was alone. Nevertheless
the question of what does this Government plan to to, and when remains?
We are reaching a stage of everything drifting. The Governemt needs to get a
plan, tell it to the people before too many lose faith in the Government.
For a good chuckle read this desperate nonsense.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-delta-outbreak-john-keys-pandemic-response-view-an-insult-to-new-zealanders-chris-hipkins-says/3Y7ZRGWG34WCQH7LQ4B5AL6GAQ/
For another entirely predictable opinion.
Interesting that Hipkins resorts to the insult himself in trying to
answer Key.
And where on Earth did he get 1 in 6 will need to go to hospital? Our
experience and the experiences of other countries is a fraction of that.
Hipkins is the real insult.
We want the government to both save lives but also our economy
Here's how we are doing:
https://www.institutmolinari.org/2021/09/21/the-zero-covid-strategy-continues-to-protect-people-economies-and-freedoms-more-effectively/

Where would you prefer us to be on the chart, Euripides?
Euripides
2021-09-26 01:23:06 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
Post by Euripides
Post by Gordon
Post by Euripides
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/300414808/sir-john-key-we-need-to-break-free-of-the-hermit-kingdom-and-stop-ruling-by-fear-on-covid19
90% is unlikely to be achieved without overt coercion, that would be a
serious thing.
Coercion/threating people will not achieve the 90%. All it will do is to set
up a us and them situation with the media stirring it up to higher levels.
One only has to look to the USA to see where it is possible to end up.
So if we take a big step back. It is clear that we have to get somewhere as
close as we can to the old normal. Border open and jet planes buzzing hither
and yond. People getting drunk in groups, other doing social drinking and
social groups of people meetings and having a good time.
So how do we get there? I agree with Sir John's points that we need a plan.
Overall, the Government sets a date for vaccinations to be completed by.
Lets say 1 January 2022, the new year. This assumes that the 60,000 day can
be maintained.
Encourage people to get vaccinated. Ensure all have the oppotunity to get
vaccinated.
Set out the stages of opening up, along with the dates. Assumes that deaths
do not hit a rate of 7000 per year say.
Then lets do this.
Post by Euripides
Already we have been "told" what to do by the public servants we
elected. It looks like they have forgotten who they work for.
It is time to take stock and set some dates, stick to them and accept
that this disease is not going away and is not as dangerous as we have
been told. Government by fear.
Government by lack of adoption to things changing. A case of this plan
worked so we will use it, not realising that the world has changed, things
are evolving.
Sir John's example of Apollo 13 is not that good as NASA never thought that
the stirring of the O2 tank could cause an explosion. Something had to be
done quickly. Covid gives alot more time to think things through and there
are examples from the rest of the world. Apollo 13 was alone. Nevertheless
the question of what does this Government plan to to, and when remains?
We are reaching a stage of everything drifting. The Governemt needs to get a
plan, tell it to the people before too many lose faith in the Government.
For a good chuckle read this desperate nonsense.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-delta-outbreak-john-keys-pandemic-response-view-an-insult-to-new-zealanders-chris-hipkins-says/3Y7ZRGWG34WCQH7LQ4B5AL6GAQ/
For another entirely predictable opinion.
Interesting that Hipkins resorts to the insult himself in trying to
answer Key.
And where on Earth did he get 1 in 6 will need to go to hospital? Our
experience and the experiences of other countries is a fraction of that.
Hipkins is the real insult.
We want the government to both save lives but also our economy
https://www.institutmolinari.org/2021/09/21/the-zero-covid-strategy-continues-to-protect-people-economies-and-freedoms-more-effectively/
Where would you prefer us to be on the chart, Euripides?
That is s very silly question. Don't you ever read the content of a post?
Read what Key said, in particular the billion dollars a week we are
borrowing and the lack of a cohesive plan.
Why don't you answer those questions?
Rich80105
2021-09-26 01:59:45 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Euripides
Post by Rich80105
Post by Euripides
Post by Gordon
Post by Euripides
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/300414808/sir-john-key-we-need-to-break-free-of-the-hermit-kingdom-and-stop-ruling-by-fear-on-covid19
90% is unlikely to be achieved without overt coercion, that would be a
serious thing.
Coercion/threating people will not achieve the 90%. All it will do is to set
up a us and them situation with the media stirring it up to higher levels.
One only has to look to the USA to see where it is possible to end up.
So if we take a big step back. It is clear that we have to get somewhere as
close as we can to the old normal. Border open and jet planes buzzing hither
and yond. People getting drunk in groups, other doing social drinking and
social groups of people meetings and having a good time.
So how do we get there? I agree with Sir John's points that we need a plan.
Overall, the Government sets a date for vaccinations to be completed by.
Lets say 1 January 2022, the new year. This assumes that the 60,000 day can
be maintained.
Encourage people to get vaccinated. Ensure all have the oppotunity to get
vaccinated.
Set out the stages of opening up, along with the dates. Assumes that deaths
do not hit a rate of 7000 per year say.
Then lets do this.
Post by Euripides
Already we have been "told" what to do by the public servants we
elected. It looks like they have forgotten who they work for.
It is time to take stock and set some dates, stick to them and accept
that this disease is not going away and is not as dangerous as we have
been told. Government by fear.
Government by lack of adoption to things changing. A case of this plan
worked so we will use it, not realising that the world has changed, things
are evolving.
Sir John's example of Apollo 13 is not that good as NASA never thought that
the stirring of the O2 tank could cause an explosion. Something had to be
done quickly. Covid gives alot more time to think things through and there
are examples from the rest of the world. Apollo 13 was alone. Nevertheless
the question of what does this Government plan to to, and when remains?
We are reaching a stage of everything drifting. The Governemt needs to get a
plan, tell it to the people before too many lose faith in the Government.
For a good chuckle read this desperate nonsense.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-delta-outbreak-john-keys-pandemic-response-view-an-insult-to-new-zealanders-chris-hipkins-says/3Y7ZRGWG34WCQH7LQ4B5AL6GAQ/
For another entirely predictable opinion.
Interesting that Hipkins resorts to the insult himself in trying to
answer Key.
And where on Earth did he get 1 in 6 will need to go to hospital? Our
experience and the experiences of other countries is a fraction of that.
Hipkins is the real insult.
We want the government to both save lives but also our economy
https://www.institutmolinari.org/2021/09/21/the-zero-covid-strategy-continues-to-protect-people-economies-and-freedoms-more-effectively/
Where would you prefer us to be on the chart, Euripides?
That is s very silly question. Don't you ever read the content of a post?
Read what Key said, in particular the billion dollars a week we are
borrowing and the lack of a cohesive plan.
The borrowing has kept our economy growing - and we have been rewarded
by increasing GDP, and businesses that are less affected by employee
shortages than we would be otherwise.

The plan has worked well - it gets adapted as things change. Key was
getting on National's plans and announcing them early - possibly as an
attack on Collins. Look at the comments on Stuff . . . And as wth so
much from National, they find out what the government is already doig
and say it should have been done yesterday.

Sometimes though issues happen that mean any plan needs to be adapted
- the emergence of the Delata Varian was just such a change that was
unexpected and required fast changes.

In planning your life, Euripides, there is only one way to be certain
aboutthe timing and cause of your own death - most of us are happy
with a bit of uncertainty . . .
Post by Euripides
Why don't you answer those questions?
OK yes I did read the content of the post.

What other question did you want an answer to?
And where would you prefer us to be on the chart in the url that I
posted, Euripides?
John Bowes
2021-09-26 02:54:04 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
Post by Euripides
Post by Rich80105
Post by Euripides
Post by Gordon
Post by Euripides
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/300414808/sir-john-key-we-need-to-break-free-of-the-hermit-kingdom-and-stop-ruling-by-fear-on-covid19
90% is unlikely to be achieved without overt coercion, that would be a
serious thing.
Coercion/threating people will not achieve the 90%. All it will do is to set
up a us and them situation with the media stirring it up to higher levels.
One only has to look to the USA to see where it is possible to end up.
So if we take a big step back. It is clear that we have to get somewhere as
close as we can to the old normal. Border open and jet planes buzzing hither
and yond. People getting drunk in groups, other doing social drinking and
social groups of people meetings and having a good time.
So how do we get there? I agree with Sir John's points that we need a plan.
Overall, the Government sets a date for vaccinations to be completed by.
Lets say 1 January 2022, the new year. This assumes that the 60,000 day can
be maintained.
Encourage people to get vaccinated. Ensure all have the oppotunity to get
vaccinated.
Set out the stages of opening up, along with the dates. Assumes that deaths
do not hit a rate of 7000 per year say.
Then lets do this.
Post by Euripides
Already we have been "told" what to do by the public servants we
elected. It looks like they have forgotten who they work for.
It is time to take stock and set some dates, stick to them and accept
that this disease is not going away and is not as dangerous as we have
been told. Government by fear.
Government by lack of adoption to things changing. A case of this plan
worked so we will use it, not realising that the world has changed, things
are evolving.
Sir John's example of Apollo 13 is not that good as NASA never thought that
the stirring of the O2 tank could cause an explosion. Something had to be
done quickly. Covid gives alot more time to think things through and there
are examples from the rest of the world. Apollo 13 was alone. Nevertheless
the question of what does this Government plan to to, and when remains?
We are reaching a stage of everything drifting. The Governemt needs to get a
plan, tell it to the people before too many lose faith in the Government.
For a good chuckle read this desperate nonsense.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-delta-outbreak-john-keys-pandemic-response-view-an-insult-to-new-zealanders-chris-hipkins-says/3Y7ZRGWG34WCQH7LQ4B5AL6GAQ/
For another entirely predictable opinion.
Interesting that Hipkins resorts to the insult himself in trying to
answer Key.
And where on Earth did he get 1 in 6 will need to go to hospital? Our
experience and the experiences of other countries is a fraction of that.
Hipkins is the real insult.
We want the government to both save lives but also our economy
https://www.institutmolinari.org/2021/09/21/the-zero-covid-strategy-continues-to-protect-people-economies-and-freedoms-more-effectively/
Where would you prefer us to be on the chart, Euripides?
That is s very silly question. Don't you ever read the content of a post?
Read what Key said, in particular the billion dollars a week we are
borrowing and the lack of a cohesive plan.
The borrowing has kept our economy growing - and we have been rewarded
by increasing GDP, and businesses that are less affected by employee
shortages than we would be otherwise.
Borrowing doesn't help an economy! Hell you were VERY vociferous in bitching about Nationals borrowing and ranting about how it'll have to be paid by the next generation. Funny how your view changes when it's your useless Labour party borrowing twice as much!
Post by Rich80105
The plan has worked well - it gets adapted as things change. Key was
getting on National's plans and announcing them early - possibly as an
attack on Collins. Look at the comments on Stuff . . . And as wth so
much from National, they find out what the government is already doig
and say it should have been done yesterday.
There isn't a plan Rich! Just a government busy shifting the goal posts and denying it's fucking useless!
Post by Rich80105
Sometimes though issues happen that mean any plan needs to be adapted
- the emergence of the Delata Varian was just such a change that was
unexpected and required fast changes.
The Delata Varian? What's that? Labour latest excuse for failing the country?
Post by Rich80105
In planning your life, Euripides, there is only one way to be certain
aboutthe timing and cause of your own death - most of us are happy
with a bit of uncertainty . . .
Post by Euripides
Why don't you answer those questions?
OK yes I did read the content of the post.
What other question did you want an answer to?
And where would you prefer us to be on the chart in the url that I
posted, Euripides?
What difference to reality will that make Rich? We're low down because your fucking useless government is incapable of planning anything except a REAL cluster fuck!
James Christophers
2021-09-26 03:56:34 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by John Bowes
Post by Rich80105
Post by Euripides
Post by Rich80105
Post by Euripides
Post by Gordon
Post by Euripides
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/300414808/sir-john-key-we-need-to-break-free-of-the-hermit-kingdom-and-stop-ruling-by-fear-on-covid19
90% is unlikely to be achieved without overt coercion, that would be a
serious thing.
Coercion/threating people will not achieve the 90%. All it will do is to set
up a us and them situation with the media stirring it up to higher levels.
One only has to look to the USA to see where it is possible to end up.
So if we take a big step back. It is clear that we have to get somewhere as
close as we can to the old normal. Border open and jet planes buzzing hither
and yond. People getting drunk in groups, other doing social drinking and
social groups of people meetings and having a good time.
So how do we get there? I agree with Sir John's points that we need a plan.
Overall, the Government sets a date for vaccinations to be completed by.
Lets say 1 January 2022, the new year. This assumes that the 60,000 day can
be maintained.
Encourage people to get vaccinated. Ensure all have the oppotunity to get
vaccinated.
Set out the stages of opening up, along with the dates. Assumes that deaths
do not hit a rate of 7000 per year say.
Then lets do this.
Post by Euripides
Already we have been "told" what to do by the public servants we
elected. It looks like they have forgotten who they work for.
It is time to take stock and set some dates, stick to them and accept
that this disease is not going away and is not as dangerous as we have
been told. Government by fear.
Government by lack of adoption to things changing. A case of this plan
worked so we will use it, not realising that the world has changed, things
are evolving.
Sir John's example of Apollo 13 is not that good as NASA never thought that
the stirring of the O2 tank could cause an explosion. Something had to be
done quickly. Covid gives alot more time to think things through and there
are examples from the rest of the world. Apollo 13 was alone. Nevertheless
the question of what does this Government plan to to, and when remains?
We are reaching a stage of everything drifting. The Governemt needs to get a
plan, tell it to the people before too many lose faith in the Government.
For a good chuckle read this desperate nonsense.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-delta-outbreak-john-keys-pandemic-response-view-an-insult-to-new-zealanders-chris-hipkins-says/3Y7ZRGWG34WCQH7LQ4B5AL6GAQ/
For another entirely predictable opinion.
Interesting that Hipkins resorts to the insult himself in trying to
answer Key.
And where on Earth did he get 1 in 6 will need to go to hospital? Our
experience and the experiences of other countries is a fraction of that.
Hipkins is the real insult.
We want the government to both save lives but also our economy
https://www.institutmolinari.org/2021/09/21/the-zero-covid-strategy-continues-to-protect-people-economies-and-freedoms-more-effectively/
Where would you prefer us to be on the chart, Euripides?
That is s very silly question. Don't you ever read the content of a post?
Read what Key said, in particular the billion dollars a week we are
borrowing and the lack of a cohesive plan.
The borrowing has kept our economy growing - and we have been rewarded
by increasing GDP, and businesses that are less affected by employee
shortages than we would be otherwise.
Borrowing doesn't help an economy!
Borrowing is the lifeblood of an economy, both local and global; its calculation, timing and prudence are denoted by economic and social wellbeing; imprudence and foolhardiness are denoted by economic decline and, ultimately, default and collapse into ruin - the failed state.
Euripides
2021-09-26 03:08:28 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
Post by Euripides
Post by Rich80105
Post by Euripides
Post by Gordon
Post by Euripides
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/300414808/sir-john-key-we-need-to-break-free-of-the-hermit-kingdom-and-stop-ruling-by-fear-on-covid19
90% is unlikely to be achieved without overt coercion, that would be a
serious thing.
Coercion/threating people will not achieve the 90%. All it will do is to set
up a us and them situation with the media stirring it up to higher levels.
One only has to look to the USA to see where it is possible to end up.
So if we take a big step back. It is clear that we have to get somewhere as
close as we can to the old normal. Border open and jet planes buzzing hither
and yond. People getting drunk in groups, other doing social drinking and
social groups of people meetings and having a good time.
So how do we get there? I agree with Sir John's points that we need a plan.
Overall, the Government sets a date for vaccinations to be completed by.
Lets say 1 January 2022, the new year. This assumes that the 60,000 day can
be maintained.
Encourage people to get vaccinated. Ensure all have the oppotunity to get
vaccinated.
Set out the stages of opening up, along with the dates. Assumes that deaths
do not hit a rate of 7000 per year say.
Then lets do this.
Post by Euripides
Already we have been "told" what to do by the public servants we
elected. It looks like they have forgotten who they work for.
It is time to take stock and set some dates, stick to them and accept
that this disease is not going away and is not as dangerous as we have
been told. Government by fear.
Government by lack of adoption to things changing. A case of this plan
worked so we will use it, not realising that the world has changed, things
are evolving.
Sir John's example of Apollo 13 is not that good as NASA never thought that
the stirring of the O2 tank could cause an explosion. Something had to be
done quickly. Covid gives alot more time to think things through and there
are examples from the rest of the world. Apollo 13 was alone. Nevertheless
the question of what does this Government plan to to, and when remains?
We are reaching a stage of everything drifting. The Governemt needs to get a
plan, tell it to the people before too many lose faith in the Government.
For a good chuckle read this desperate nonsense.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-delta-outbreak-john-keys-pandemic-response-view-an-insult-to-new-zealanders-chris-hipkins-says/3Y7ZRGWG34WCQH7LQ4B5AL6GAQ/
For another entirely predictable opinion.
Interesting that Hipkins resorts to the insult himself in trying to
answer Key.
And where on Earth did he get 1 in 6 will need to go to hospital? Our
experience and the experiences of other countries is a fraction of that.
Hipkins is the real insult.
We want the government to both save lives but also our economy
https://www.institutmolinari.org/2021/09/21/the-zero-covid-strategy-continues-to-protect-people-economies-and-freedoms-more-effectively/
Where would you prefer us to be on the chart, Euripides?
That is s very silly question. Don't you ever read the content of a post?
Read what Key said, in particular the billion dollars a week we are
borrowing and the lack of a cohesive plan.
The borrowing has kept our economy growing - and we have been rewarded
by increasing GDP, and businesses that are less affected by employee
shortages than we would be otherwise.
So answer Key's question. How long can we keep borrowing a billion
dollars a week?
Post by Rich80105
The plan has worked well - it gets adapted as things change. Key was
getting on National's plans and announcing them early - possibly as an
attack on Collins. Look at the comments on Stuff . . . And as wth so
much from National, they find out what the government is already doig
and say it should have been done yesterday.
Sometimes though issues happen that mean any plan needs to be adapted
- the emergence of the Delata Varian was just such a change that was
unexpected and required fast changes.
In planning your life, Euripides, there is only one way to be certain
aboutthe timing and cause of your own death - most of us are happy
with a bit of uncertainty . . .
Explain that will you, for us poor mortals.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Euripides
Why don't you answer those questions?
OK yes I did read the content of the post.
What other question did you want an answer to?
And where would you prefer us to be on the chart in the url that I
posted, Euripides?
That is still a silly question.
James Christophers
2021-09-26 03:56:09 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Euripides
Post by Rich80105
Post by Euripides
Post by Rich80105
Post by Euripides
Post by Gordon
Post by Euripides
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/300414808/sir-john-key-we-need-to-break-free-of-the-hermit-kingdom-and-stop-ruling-by-fear-on-covid19
90% is unlikely to be achieved without overt coercion, that would be a
serious thing.
Coercion/threating people will not achieve the 90%. All it will do is to set
up a us and them situation with the media stirring it up to higher levels.
One only has to look to the USA to see where it is possible to end up.
So if we take a big step back. It is clear that we have to get somewhere as
close as we can to the old normal. Border open and jet planes buzzing hither
and yond. People getting drunk in groups, other doing social drinking and
social groups of people meetings and having a good time.
So how do we get there? I agree with Sir John's points that we need a plan.
Overall, the Government sets a date for vaccinations to be completed by.
Lets say 1 January 2022, the new year. This assumes that the 60,000 day can
be maintained.
Encourage people to get vaccinated. Ensure all have the oppotunity to get
vaccinated.
Set out the stages of opening up, along with the dates. Assumes that deaths
do not hit a rate of 7000 per year say.
Then lets do this.
Post by Euripides
Already we have been "told" what to do by the public servants we
elected. It looks like they have forgotten who they work for.
It is time to take stock and set some dates, stick to them and accept
that this disease is not going away and is not as dangerous as we have
been told. Government by fear.
Government by lack of adoption to things changing. A case of this plan
worked so we will use it, not realising that the world has changed, things
are evolving.
Sir John's example of Apollo 13 is not that good as NASA never thought that
the stirring of the O2 tank could cause an explosion. Something had to be
done quickly. Covid gives alot more time to think things through and there
are examples from the rest of the world. Apollo 13 was alone. Nevertheless
the question of what does this Government plan to to, and when remains?
We are reaching a stage of everything drifting. The Governemt needs to get a
plan, tell it to the people before too many lose faith in the Government.
For a good chuckle read this desperate nonsense.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-delta-outbreak-john-keys-pandemic-response-view-an-insult-to-new-zealanders-chris-hipkins-says/3Y7ZRGWG34WCQH7LQ4B5AL6GAQ/
For another entirely predictable opinion.
Interesting that Hipkins resorts to the insult himself in trying to
answer Key.
And where on Earth did he get 1 in 6 will need to go to hospital? Our
experience and the experiences of other countries is a fraction of that.
Hipkins is the real insult.
We want the government to both save lives but also our economy
https://www.institutmolinari.org/2021/09/21/the-zero-covid-strategy-continues-to-protect-people-economies-and-freedoms-more-effectively/
Where would you prefer us to be on the chart, Euripides?
That is s very silly question. Don't you ever read the content of a post?
Read what Key said, in particular the billion dollars a week we are
borrowing and the lack of a cohesive plan.
The borrowing has kept our economy growing - and we have been rewarded
by increasing GDP, and businesses that are less affected by employee
shortages than we would be otherwise.
So answer Key's question. How long can we keep borrowing a billion
dollars a week?
For as long as creditors are willing and able to. (There is a proposed/advised %debt/GDP ratio that sets the maximum permissible to ensure and maintain economic stability). A consistently good credit rating also helps things along. As for the next generation having to pay for it, this they have done since gaaawd knows when - so much so that such necessary means of repayment is permanently woven into every nation's economic fabric.

It's called Taxation.
Rich80105
2021-09-26 05:08:01 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Euripides
Post by Rich80105
Post by Euripides
Post by Rich80105
Post by Euripides
Post by Gordon
Post by Euripides
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/300414808/sir-john-key-we-need-to-break-free-of-the-hermit-kingdom-and-stop-ruling-by-fear-on-covid19
90% is unlikely to be achieved without overt coercion, that would be a
serious thing.
Coercion/threating people will not achieve the 90%. All it will do is to set
up a us and them situation with the media stirring it up to higher levels.
One only has to look to the USA to see where it is possible to end up.
So if we take a big step back. It is clear that we have to get somewhere as
close as we can to the old normal. Border open and jet planes buzzing hither
and yond. People getting drunk in groups, other doing social drinking and
social groups of people meetings and having a good time.
So how do we get there? I agree with Sir John's points that we need a plan.
Overall, the Government sets a date for vaccinations to be completed by.
Lets say 1 January 2022, the new year. This assumes that the 60,000 day can
be maintained.
Encourage people to get vaccinated. Ensure all have the oppotunity to get
vaccinated.
Set out the stages of opening up, along with the dates. Assumes that deaths
do not hit a rate of 7000 per year say.
Then lets do this.
Post by Euripides
Already we have been "told" what to do by the public servants we
elected. It looks like they have forgotten who they work for.
It is time to take stock and set some dates, stick to them and accept
that this disease is not going away and is not as dangerous as we have
been told. Government by fear.
Government by lack of adoption to things changing. A case of this plan
worked so we will use it, not realising that the world has changed, things
are evolving.
Sir John's example of Apollo 13 is not that good as NASA never thought that
the stirring of the O2 tank could cause an explosion. Something had to be
done quickly. Covid gives alot more time to think things through and there
are examples from the rest of the world. Apollo 13 was alone. Nevertheless
the question of what does this Government plan to to, and when remains?
We are reaching a stage of everything drifting. The Governemt needs to get a
plan, tell it to the people before too many lose faith in the Government.
For a good chuckle read this desperate nonsense.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-delta-outbreak-john-keys-pandemic-response-view-an-insult-to-new-zealanders-chris-hipkins-says/3Y7ZRGWG34WCQH7LQ4B5AL6GAQ/
For another entirely predictable opinion.
Interesting that Hipkins resorts to the insult himself in trying to
answer Key.
And where on Earth did he get 1 in 6 will need to go to hospital? Our
experience and the experiences of other countries is a fraction of that.
Hipkins is the real insult.
We want the government to both save lives but also our economy
https://www.institutmolinari.org/2021/09/21/the-zero-covid-strategy-continues-to-protect-people-economies-and-freedoms-more-effectively/
Where would you prefer us to be on the chart, Euripides?
That is s very silly question. Don't you ever read the content of a post?
Read what Key said, in particular the billion dollars a week we are
borrowing and the lack of a cohesive plan.
The borrowing has kept our economy growing - and we have been rewarded
by increasing GDP, and businesses that are less affected by employee
shortages than we would be otherwise.
So answer Key's question. How long can we keep borrowing a billion
dollars a week?
Read the most recent url posted above - the borrowing we have done to
bail out New Zealand businesses that had not taken simple preparations
for business continuity has resulted in a far better overall result
for New Zealand than the policies of other companies. John Key appears
to be suggesting that if we need to go back to level 4 again the
government should stop the 80% of earnings subsidies - do you agree
with that?

As to the overall level of debt, thanks to the good governmane of the
Ardern/Robertson Governments, we have low levels of debt in
international comparisons, and far lower levels than we had to cope
with under John Key governments. It is just not an issue - after
paying all that money, and keeping many businesses going, our total
GPD has increased - unlike the econoic results in most other countries
. . .
Post by Euripides
Post by Rich80105
The plan has worked well - it gets adapted as things change. Key was
getting on National's plans and announcing them early - possibly as an
attack on Collins. Look at the comments on Stuff . . . And as wth so
much from National, they find out what the government is already doig
and say it should have been done yesterday.
Sometimes though issues happen that mean any plan needs to be adapted
- the emergence of the Delata Varian was just such a change that was
unexpected and required fast changes.
In planning your life, Euripides, there is only one way to be certain
about the timing and cause of your own death - most of us are happy
with a bit of uncertainty . . .
Explain that will you, for us poor mortals.
Generally, there are a lot of uncertainties in life. We can be a
little more confident that we will not die from Covid than residents
of most other countries, but planning for the future is not a fixed
process - we must always adapt to new circumstances - and the Delta
variant quite rightly resulted in adjustments to restrictions at
different levels, and in recommended practices. Relating that to an
individual, most of do not know how we will die or what the cause of
that death will be - most hope for at least old age . . . but if you
want absolute certainly you will not get it without initiating the
evnt itself - I am sure you will accept that I was not recommending
such action to anyone, just illustrating that demanding certainty in
an uncertain situation is silly, and usually indicates a juvenile
level of understanding.
Post by Euripides
Post by Rich80105
Post by Euripides
Why don't you answer those questions?
OK yes I did read the content of the post.
What other question did you want an answer to?
And where would you prefer us to be on the chart in the url that I
posted, Euripides?
That is still a silly question. I believed your questions were silly, but I answered them. Would you have preferred the New Zealand experience to be more like the other cuntries that did not adopt the practices and plans put together by our government?
Euripides
2021-09-26 21:00:30 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
Post by Euripides
Post by Rich80105
Post by Euripides
Post by Rich80105
Post by Euripides
Post by Gordon
Post by Euripides
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/300414808/sir-john-key-we-need-to-break-free-of-the-hermit-kingdom-and-stop-ruling-by-fear-on-covid19
90% is unlikely to be achieved without overt coercion, that would be a
serious thing.
Coercion/threating people will not achieve the 90%. All it will do is to set
up a us and them situation with the media stirring it up to higher levels.
One only has to look to the USA to see where it is possible to end up.
So if we take a big step back. It is clear that we have to get somewhere as
close as we can to the old normal. Border open and jet planes buzzing hither
and yond. People getting drunk in groups, other doing social drinking and
social groups of people meetings and having a good time.
So how do we get there? I agree with Sir John's points that we need a plan.
Overall, the Government sets a date for vaccinations to be completed by.
Lets say 1 January 2022, the new year. This assumes that the 60,000 day can
be maintained.
Encourage people to get vaccinated. Ensure all have the oppotunity to get
vaccinated.
Set out the stages of opening up, along with the dates. Assumes that deaths
do not hit a rate of 7000 per year say.
Then lets do this.
Post by Euripides
Already we have been "told" what to do by the public servants we
elected. It looks like they have forgotten who they work for.
It is time to take stock and set some dates, stick to them and accept
that this disease is not going away and is not as dangerous as we have
been told. Government by fear.
Government by lack of adoption to things changing. A case of this plan
worked so we will use it, not realising that the world has changed, things
are evolving.
Sir John's example of Apollo 13 is not that good as NASA never thought that
the stirring of the O2 tank could cause an explosion. Something had to be
done quickly. Covid gives alot more time to think things through and there
are examples from the rest of the world. Apollo 13 was alone. Nevertheless
the question of what does this Government plan to to, and when remains?
We are reaching a stage of everything drifting. The Governemt needs to get a
plan, tell it to the people before too many lose faith in the Government.
For a good chuckle read this desperate nonsense.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-delta-outbreak-john-keys-pandemic-response-view-an-insult-to-new-zealanders-chris-hipkins-says/3Y7ZRGWG34WCQH7LQ4B5AL6GAQ/
For another entirely predictable opinion.
Interesting that Hipkins resorts to the insult himself in trying to
answer Key.
And where on Earth did he get 1 in 6 will need to go to hospital? Our
experience and the experiences of other countries is a fraction of that.
Hipkins is the real insult.
We want the government to both save lives but also our economy
https://www.institutmolinari.org/2021/09/21/the-zero-covid-strategy-continues-to-protect-people-economies-and-freedoms-more-effectively/
Where would you prefer us to be on the chart, Euripides?
That is s very silly question. Don't you ever read the content of a post?
Read what Key said, in particular the billion dollars a week we are
borrowing and the lack of a cohesive plan.
The borrowing has kept our economy growing - and we have been rewarded
by increasing GDP, and businesses that are less affected by employee
shortages than we would be otherwise.
So answer Key's question. How long can we keep borrowing a billion
dollars a week?
Read the most recent url posted above - the borrowing we have done to
bail out New Zealand businesses that had not taken simple preparations
for business continuity has resulted in a far better overall result
for New Zealand than the policies of other companies. John Key appears
to be suggesting that if we need to go back to level 4 again the
government should stop the 80% of earnings subsidies - do you agree
with that?
Another silly question.
Post by Rich80105
As to the overall level of debt, thanks to the good governmane of the
Ardern/Robertson Governments, we have low levels of debt in
international comparisons, and far lower levels than we had to cope
with under John Key governments. It is just not an issue - after
paying all that money, and keeping many businesses going, our total
GPD has increased - unlike the econoic results in most other countries
Like your previous paragraph in answer to this thread comparisons are
not the issue, raw debt is the issue.
Post by Rich80105
. . .
Post by Euripides
Post by Rich80105
The plan has worked well - it gets adapted as things change. Key was
getting on National's plans and announcing them early - possibly as an
attack on Collins. Look at the comments on Stuff . . . And as wth so
much from National, they find out what the government is already doig
and say it should have been done yesterday.
Sometimes though issues happen that mean any plan needs to be adapted
- the emergence of the Delata Varian was just such a change that was
unexpected and required fast changes.
In planning your life, Euripides, there is only one way to be certain
about the timing and cause of your own death - most of us are happy
with a bit of uncertainty . . .
Explain that will you, for us poor mortals.
Generally, there are a lot of uncertainties in life. We can be a
little more confident that we will not die from Covid than residents
of most other countries, but planning for the future is not a fixed
process - we must always adapt to new circumstances - and the Delta
variant quite rightly resulted in adjustments to restrictions at
different levels, and in recommended practices. Relating that to an
individual, most of do not know how we will die or what the cause of
that death will be - most hope for at least old age . . . but if you
want absolute certainly you will not get it without initiating the
evnt itself - I am sure you will accept that I was not recommending
such action to anyone, just illustrating that demanding certainty in
an uncertain situation is silly, and usually indicates a juvenile
level of understanding.
I don't believe you. Your responses have been juvenile not mine.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Euripides
Post by Rich80105
Post by Euripides
Why don't you answer those questions?
OK yes I did read the content of the post.
What other question did you want an answer to?
And where would you prefer us to be on the chart in the url that I
posted, Euripides?
That is still a silly question. I believed your questions were silly, but I answered them. Would you have preferred the New Zealand experience to be more like the other cuntries that did not adopt the practices and plans put together by our government?
James Christophers
2021-09-26 22:20:19 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Euripides
Post by Rich80105
Post by Euripides
Post by Rich80105
Post by Euripides
Post by Rich80105
Post by Euripides
Post by Gordon
Post by Euripides
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/300414808/sir-john-key-we-need-to-break-free-of-the-hermit-kingdom-and-stop-ruling-by-fear-on-covid19
90% is unlikely to be achieved without overt coercion, that would be a
serious thing.
Coercion/threating people will not achieve the 90%. All it will do is to set
up a us and them situation with the media stirring it up to higher levels.
One only has to look to the USA to see where it is possible to end up.
So if we take a big step back. It is clear that we have to get somewhere as
close as we can to the old normal. Border open and jet planes buzzing hither
and yond. People getting drunk in groups, other doing social drinking and
social groups of people meetings and having a good time.
So how do we get there? I agree with Sir John's points that we need a plan.
Overall, the Government sets a date for vaccinations to be completed by.
Lets say 1 January 2022, the new year. This assumes that the 60,000 day can
be maintained.
Encourage people to get vaccinated. Ensure all have the oppotunity to get
vaccinated.
Set out the stages of opening up, along with the dates. Assumes that deaths
do not hit a rate of 7000 per year say.
Then lets do this.
Post by Euripides
Already we have been "told" what to do by the public servants we
elected. It looks like they have forgotten who they work for.
It is time to take stock and set some dates, stick to them and accept
that this disease is not going away and is not as dangerous as we have
been told. Government by fear.
Government by lack of adoption to things changing. A case of this plan
worked so we will use it, not realising that the world has changed, things
are evolving.
Sir John's example of Apollo 13 is not that good as NASA never thought that
the stirring of the O2 tank could cause an explosion. Something had to be
done quickly. Covid gives alot more time to think things through and there
are examples from the rest of the world. Apollo 13 was alone. Nevertheless
the question of what does this Government plan to to, and when remains?
We are reaching a stage of everything drifting. The Governemt needs to get a
plan, tell it to the people before too many lose faith in the Government.
For a good chuckle read this desperate nonsense.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-delta-outbreak-john-keys-pandemic-response-view-an-insult-to-new-zealanders-chris-hipkins-says/3Y7ZRGWG34WCQH7LQ4B5AL6GAQ/
For another entirely predictable opinion.
Interesting that Hipkins resorts to the insult himself in trying to
answer Key.
And where on Earth did he get 1 in 6 will need to go to hospital? Our
experience and the experiences of other countries is a fraction of that.
Hipkins is the real insult.
We want the government to both save lives but also our economy
https://www.institutmolinari.org/2021/09/21/the-zero-covid-strategy-continues-to-protect-people-economies-and-freedoms-more-effectively/
Where would you prefer us to be on the chart, Euripides?
That is s very silly question. Don't you ever read the content of a post?
Read what Key said, in particular the billion dollars a week we are
borrowing and the lack of a cohesive plan.
The borrowing has kept our economy growing - and we have been rewarded
by increasing GDP, and businesses that are less affected by employee
shortages than we would be otherwise.
So answer Key's question. How long can we keep borrowing a billion
dollars a week?
Read the most recent url posted above - the borrowing we have done to
bail out New Zealand businesses that had not taken simple preparations
for business continuity has resulted in a far better overall result
for New Zealand than the policies of other companies. John Key appears
to be suggesting that if we need to go back to level 4 again the
government should stop the 80% of earnings subsidies - do you agree
with that?
Another silly question.
Post by Rich80105
As to the overall level of debt, thanks to the good governmane of the
Ardern/Robertson Governments, we have low levels of debt in
international comparisons, and far lower levels than we had to cope
with under John Key governments. It is just not an issue - after
paying all that money, and keeping many businesses going, our total
GPD has increased - unlike the econoic results in most other countries
All well and good, yes, but what is the **quality** of that GDP growth? Is it a true measure of the nation's new, increased productive wealth? Or does it merely represent further increased **unproductive** internal dollar-swapping between Kiwis - e.g. in-country tourism where Aucklanders and Queenstowners exchange **existing** wealth, and vice-versa. Nothing but a mirage, a feel-good, empty-calories GDP that goes to make up far too much of this nation's "flat tack" economic activity while in fact doing little of use; all the while trying to conceal from itself its true condition - its perpetual economic torpor and stasis.
Post by Euripides
Like your previous paragraph in answer to this thread comparisons are
not the issue, raw debt is the issue.
To the World Bank and the IMF, etc., inter-country indebtedness comparisons are **the** sine qua non in the assessment of overall global economic performance and stability - who's doing OK, who isn't. As ever, the issue is not so much a single nation's individual debt but how best it may be managed and exploited - bang for buck, as it were. New Zealand rates well in that it is consistent in the handling of its debt/credit equation. But the price it pays for the inevitable limitations that come with it, is its long-term economic stultification and, as night follow day, the equally inevitable "empty-calories" good news GDP reports referred to in the foregoing.
Tony
2021-09-27 00:49:12 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Euripides
Post by Rich80105
Post by Euripides
Post by Rich80105
Post by Euripides
Post by Rich80105
Post by Euripides
Post by Gordon
Post by Euripides
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/300414808/sir-john-key-we-need-to-break-free-of-the-hermit-kingdom-and-stop-ruling-by-fear-on-covid19
90% is unlikely to be achieved without overt coercion, that would be a
serious thing.
Coercion/threating people will not achieve the 90%. All it will do is to set
up a us and them situation with the media stirring it up to higher levels.
One only has to look to the USA to see where it is possible to end up.
So if we take a big step back. It is clear that we have to get somewhere as
close as we can to the old normal. Border open and jet planes buzzing hither
and yond. People getting drunk in groups, other doing social drinking and
social groups of people meetings and having a good time.
So how do we get there? I agree with Sir John's points that we need a plan.
Overall, the Government sets a date for vaccinations to be completed by.
Lets say 1 January 2022, the new year. This assumes that the 60,000 day can
be maintained.
Encourage people to get vaccinated. Ensure all have the oppotunity to get
vaccinated.
Set out the stages of opening up, along with the dates. Assumes that deaths
do not hit a rate of 7000 per year say.
Then lets do this.
Post by Euripides
Already we have been "told" what to do by the public servants we
elected. It looks like they have forgotten who they work for.
It is time to take stock and set some dates, stick to them and accept
that this disease is not going away and is not as dangerous as we have
been told. Government by fear.
Government by lack of adoption to things changing. A case of this plan
worked so we will use it, not realising that the world has changed, things
are evolving.
Sir John's example of Apollo 13 is not that good as NASA never thought that
the stirring of the O2 tank could cause an explosion. Something had to be
done quickly. Covid gives alot more time to think things through and there
are examples from the rest of the world. Apollo 13 was alone. Nevertheless
the question of what does this Government plan to to, and when remains?
We are reaching a stage of everything drifting. The Governemt needs to get a
plan, tell it to the people before too many lose faith in the Government.
For a good chuckle read this desperate nonsense.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-delta-outbreak-john-keys-pandemic-response-view-an-insult-to-new-zealanders-chris-hipkins-says/3Y7ZRGWG34WCQH7LQ4B5AL6GAQ/
For another entirely predictable opinion.
Interesting that Hipkins resorts to the insult himself in trying to
answer Key.
And where on Earth did he get 1 in 6 will need to go to hospital? Our
experience and the experiences of other countries is a fraction of that.
Hipkins is the real insult.
We want the government to both save lives but also our economy
https://www.institutmolinari.org/2021/09/21/the-zero-covid-strategy-continues-to-protect-people-economies-and-freedoms-more-effectively/
Where would you prefer us to be on the chart, Euripides?
That is s very silly question. Don't you ever read the content of a post?
Read what Key said, in particular the billion dollars a week we are
borrowing and the lack of a cohesive plan.
The borrowing has kept our economy growing - and we have been rewarded
by increasing GDP, and businesses that are less affected by employee
shortages than we would be otherwise.
So answer Key's question. How long can we keep borrowing a billion
dollars a week?
Read the most recent url posted above - the borrowing we have done to
bail out New Zealand businesses that had not taken simple preparations
for business continuity has resulted in a far better overall result
for New Zealand than the policies of other companies. John Key appears
to be suggesting that if we need to go back to level 4 again the
government should stop the 80% of earnings subsidies - do you agree
with that?
Another silly question.
Post by Rich80105
As to the overall level of debt, thanks to the good governmane of the
Ardern/Robertson Governments, we have low levels of debt in
international comparisons, and far lower levels than we had to cope
with under John Key governments. It is just not an issue - after
paying all that money, and keeping many businesses going, our total
GPD has increased - unlike the econoic results in most other countries
Like your previous paragraph in answer to this thread comparisons are
not the issue, raw debt is the issue.
Post by Rich80105
. . .
Post by Euripides
Post by Rich80105
The plan has worked well - it gets adapted as things change. Key was
getting on National's plans and announcing them early - possibly as an
attack on Collins. Look at the comments on Stuff . . . And as wth so
much from National, they find out what the government is already doig
and say it should have been done yesterday.
Sometimes though issues happen that mean any plan needs to be adapted
- the emergence of the Delata Varian was just such a change that was
unexpected and required fast changes.
In planning your life, Euripides, there is only one way to be certain
about the timing and cause of your own death - most of us are happy
with a bit of uncertainty . . .
Explain that will you, for us poor mortals.
Generally, there are a lot of uncertainties in life. We can be a
little more confident that we will not die from Covid than residents
of most other countries, but planning for the future is not a fixed
process - we must always adapt to new circumstances - and the Delta
variant quite rightly resulted in adjustments to restrictions at
different levels, and in recommended practices. Relating that to an
individual, most of do not know how we will die or what the cause of
that death will be - most hope for at least old age . . . but if you
want absolute certainly you will not get it without initiating the
evnt itself - I am sure you will accept that I was not recommending
such action to anyone, just illustrating that demanding certainty in
an uncertain situation is silly, and usually indicates a juvenile
level of understanding.
I don't believe you. Your responses have been juvenile not mine.
Try this for some grown up opinion. You will enjoy it I think.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300416729/covid19-nz-john-key-dramatically-reenters-political-spotlight-jacinda-ardern-fights-back
Post by Euripides
Post by Rich80105
Post by Euripides
Post by Rich80105
Post by Euripides
Why don't you answer those questions?
OK yes I did read the content of the post.
What other question did you want an answer to?
And where would you prefer us to be on the chart in the url that I
posted, Euripides?
That is still a silly question. I believed your questions were silly, but I
answered them. Would you have preferred the New Zealand experience to be more
like the other cuntries that did not adopt the practices and plans put together
by our government?
Rich80105
2021-09-27 01:44:44 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Sun, 26 Sep 2021 19:49:12 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Euripides
Post by Rich80105
Post by Euripides
Post by Rich80105
Post by Euripides
Post by Rich80105
Post by Euripides
Post by Gordon
Post by Euripides
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/300414808/sir-john-key-we-need-to-break-free-of-the-hermit-kingdom-and-stop-ruling-by-fear-on-covid19
90% is unlikely to be achieved without overt coercion, that would be a
serious thing.
Coercion/threating people will not achieve the 90%. All it will do is to set
up a us and them situation with the media stirring it up to higher levels.
One only has to look to the USA to see where it is possible to end up.
So if we take a big step back. It is clear that we have to get somewhere as
close as we can to the old normal. Border open and jet planes buzzing hither
and yond. People getting drunk in groups, other doing social drinking and
social groups of people meetings and having a good time.
So how do we get there? I agree with Sir John's points that we need a plan.
Overall, the Government sets a date for vaccinations to be completed by.
Lets say 1 January 2022, the new year. This assumes that the 60,000 day can
be maintained.
Encourage people to get vaccinated. Ensure all have the oppotunity to get
vaccinated.
Set out the stages of opening up, along with the dates. Assumes that deaths
do not hit a rate of 7000 per year say.
Then lets do this.
Post by Euripides
Already we have been "told" what to do by the public servants we
elected. It looks like they have forgotten who they work for.
It is time to take stock and set some dates, stick to them and accept
that this disease is not going away and is not as dangerous as we have
been told. Government by fear.
Government by lack of adoption to things changing. A case of this plan
worked so we will use it, not realising that the world has changed, things
are evolving.
Sir John's example of Apollo 13 is not that good as NASA never thought that
the stirring of the O2 tank could cause an explosion. Something had to be
done quickly. Covid gives alot more time to think things through and there
are examples from the rest of the world. Apollo 13 was alone. Nevertheless
the question of what does this Government plan to to, and when remains?
We are reaching a stage of everything drifting. The Governemt needs to get a
plan, tell it to the people before too many lose faith in the Government.
For a good chuckle read this desperate nonsense.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-delta-outbreak-john-keys-pandemic-response-view-an-insult-to-new-zealanders-chris-hipkins-says/3Y7ZRGWG34WCQH7LQ4B5AL6GAQ/
For another entirely predictable opinion.
Interesting that Hipkins resorts to the insult himself in trying to
answer Key.
And where on Earth did he get 1 in 6 will need to go to hospital? Our
experience and the experiences of other countries is a fraction of that.
Hipkins is the real insult.
We want the government to both save lives but also our economy
https://www.institutmolinari.org/2021/09/21/the-zero-covid-strategy-continues-to-protect-people-economies-and-freedoms-more-effectively/
Where would you prefer us to be on the chart, Euripides?
That is s very silly question. Don't you ever read the content of a post?
Read what Key said, in particular the billion dollars a week we are
borrowing and the lack of a cohesive plan.
The borrowing has kept our economy growing - and we have been rewarded
by increasing GDP, and businesses that are less affected by employee
shortages than we would be otherwise.
So answer Key's question. How long can we keep borrowing a billion
dollars a week?
Read the most recent url posted above - the borrowing we have done to
bail out New Zealand businesses that had not taken simple preparations
for business continuity has resulted in a far better overall result
for New Zealand than the policies of other companies. John Key appears
to be suggesting that if we need to go back to level 4 again the
government should stop the 80% of earnings subsidies - do you agree
with that?
Another silly question.
Post by Rich80105
As to the overall level of debt, thanks to the good governmane of the
Ardern/Robertson Governments, we have low levels of debt in
international comparisons, and far lower levels than we had to cope
with under John Key governments. It is just not an issue - after
paying all that money, and keeping many businesses going, our total
GPD has increased - unlike the econoic results in most other countries
Like your previous paragraph in answer to this thread comparisons are
not the issue, raw debt is the issue.
Post by Rich80105
. . .
Post by Euripides
Post by Rich80105
The plan has worked well - it gets adapted as things change. Key was
getting on National's plans and announcing them early - possibly as an
attack on Collins. Look at the comments on Stuff . . . And as wth so
much from National, they find out what the government is already doig
and say it should have been done yesterday.
Sometimes though issues happen that mean any plan needs to be adapted
- the emergence of the Delata Varian was just such a change that was
unexpected and required fast changes.
In planning your life, Euripides, there is only one way to be certain
about the timing and cause of your own death - most of us are happy
with a bit of uncertainty . . .
Explain that will you, for us poor mortals.
Generally, there are a lot of uncertainties in life. We can be a
little more confident that we will not die from Covid than residents
of most other countries, but planning for the future is not a fixed
process - we must always adapt to new circumstances - and the Delta
variant quite rightly resulted in adjustments to restrictions at
different levels, and in recommended practices. Relating that to an
individual, most of do not know how we will die or what the cause of
that death will be - most hope for at least old age . . . but if you
want absolute certainly you will not get it without initiating the
evnt itself - I am sure you will accept that I was not recommending
such action to anyone, just illustrating that demanding certainty in
an uncertain situation is silly, and usually indicates a juvenile
level of understanding.
I don't believe you. Your responses have been juvenile not mine.
Try this for some grown up opinion. You will enjoy it I think.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300416729/covid19-nz-john-key-dramatically-reenters-political-spotlight-jacinda-ardern-fights-back
At least it is consistent with the Subject of this thread - "time to
re-consider". The need for a new National party leader has been
discussed a lot, but Key has just pre-empted the attack lines for
Collins - albeit presenting them a lot better than she would. Nothin
new though - just the ormal find out what Labour are having assessed,
try and announce it first, and hope there were no good reasons why it
is not suitable . . .

Do you think Key is backing Luxon for the job?
Post by Tony
Post by Euripides
Post by Rich80105
Post by Euripides
Post by Rich80105
Post by Euripides
Why don't you answer those questions?
OK yes I did read the content of the post.
What other question did you want an answer to?
And where would you prefer us to be on the chart in the url that I
posted, Euripides?
That is still a silly question. I believed your questions were silly, but I
answered them.
Would you have preferred the New Zealand experience to be more
like the other countries that did not adopt the practices and plans put together
by our government?
John Bowes
2021-09-27 01:52:24 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Sun, 26 Sep 2021 19:49:12 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Euripides
Post by Rich80105
Post by Euripides
Post by Rich80105
Post by Euripides
Post by Rich80105
Post by Euripides
Post by Gordon
Post by Euripides
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/300414808/sir-john-key-we-need-to-break-free-of-the-hermit-kingdom-and-stop-ruling-by-fear-on-covid19
90% is unlikely to be achieved without overt coercion, that would be a
serious thing.
Coercion/threating people will not achieve the 90%. All it will do is
to set
up a us and them situation with the media stirring it up to higher
levels.
One only has to look to the USA to see where it is possible to end up.
So if we take a big step back. It is clear that we have to get
somewhere as
close as we can to the old normal. Border open and jet planes buzzing
hither
and yond. People getting drunk in groups, other doing social drinking
and
social groups of people meetings and having a good time.
So how do we get there? I agree with Sir John's points that we need a
plan.
Overall, the Government sets a date for vaccinations to be completed by.
Lets say 1 January 2022, the new year. This assumes that the 60,000
day can
be maintained.
Encourage people to get vaccinated. Ensure all have the oppotunity to
get
vaccinated.
Set out the stages of opening up, along with the dates. Assumes that
deaths
do not hit a rate of 7000 per year say.
Then lets do this.
Post by Euripides
Already we have been "told" what to do by the public servants we
elected. It looks like they have forgotten who they work for.
It is time to take stock and set some dates, stick to them and accept
that this disease is not going away and is not as dangerous as we have
been told. Government by fear.
Government by lack of adoption to things changing. A case of this plan
worked so we will use it, not realising that the world has changed,
things
are evolving.
Sir John's example of Apollo 13 is not that good as NASA never thought
that
the stirring of the O2 tank could cause an explosion. Something had to
be
done quickly. Covid gives alot more time to think things through and
there
are examples from the rest of the world. Apollo 13 was alone.
Nevertheless
the question of what does this Government plan to to, and when remains?
We are reaching a stage of everything drifting. The Governemt needs to
get a
plan, tell it to the people before too many lose faith in the
Government.
For a good chuckle read this desperate nonsense.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-delta-outbreak-john-keys-pandemic-response-view-an-insult-to-new-zealanders-chris-hipkins-says/3Y7ZRGWG34WCQH7LQ4B5AL6GAQ/
For another entirely predictable opinion.
Interesting that Hipkins resorts to the insult himself in trying to
answer Key.
And where on Earth did he get 1 in 6 will need to go to hospital? Our
experience and the experiences of other countries is a fraction of that.
Hipkins is the real insult.
We want the government to both save lives but also our economy
https://www.institutmolinari.org/2021/09/21/the-zero-covid-strategy-continues-to-protect-people-economies-and-freedoms-more-effectively/
Where would you prefer us to be on the chart, Euripides?
That is s very silly question. Don't you ever read the content of a post?
Read what Key said, in particular the billion dollars a week we are
borrowing and the lack of a cohesive plan.
The borrowing has kept our economy growing - and we have been rewarded
by increasing GDP, and businesses that are less affected by employee
shortages than we would be otherwise.
So answer Key's question. How long can we keep borrowing a billion
dollars a week?
Read the most recent url posted above - the borrowing we have done to
bail out New Zealand businesses that had not taken simple preparations
for business continuity has resulted in a far better overall result
for New Zealand than the policies of other companies. John Key appears
to be suggesting that if we need to go back to level 4 again the
government should stop the 80% of earnings subsidies - do you agree
with that?
Another silly question.
Post by Rich80105
As to the overall level of debt, thanks to the good governmane of the
Ardern/Robertson Governments, we have low levels of debt in
international comparisons, and far lower levels than we had to cope
with under John Key governments. It is just not an issue - after
paying all that money, and keeping many businesses going, our total
GPD has increased - unlike the econoic results in most other countries
Like your previous paragraph in answer to this thread comparisons are
not the issue, raw debt is the issue.
Post by Rich80105
. . .
Post by Euripides
Post by Rich80105
The plan has worked well - it gets adapted as things change. Key was
getting on National's plans and announcing them early - possibly as an
attack on Collins. Look at the comments on Stuff . . . And as wth so
much from National, they find out what the government is already doig
and say it should have been done yesterday.
Sometimes though issues happen that mean any plan needs to be adapted
- the emergence of the Delata Varian was just such a change that was
unexpected and required fast changes.
In planning your life, Euripides, there is only one way to be certain
about the timing and cause of your own death - most of us are happy
with a bit of uncertainty . . .
Explain that will you, for us poor mortals.
Generally, there are a lot of uncertainties in life. We can be a
little more confident that we will not die from Covid than residents
of most other countries, but planning for the future is not a fixed
process - we must always adapt to new circumstances - and the Delta
variant quite rightly resulted in adjustments to restrictions at
different levels, and in recommended practices. Relating that to an
individual, most of do not know how we will die or what the cause of
that death will be - most hope for at least old age . . . but if you
want absolute certainly you will not get it without initiating the
evnt itself - I am sure you will accept that I was not recommending
such action to anyone, just illustrating that demanding certainty in
an uncertain situation is silly, and usually indicates a juvenile
level of understanding.
I don't believe you. Your responses have been juvenile not mine.
Try this for some grown up opinion. You will enjoy it I think.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300416729/covid19-nz-john-key-dramatically-reenters-political-spotlight-jacinda-ardern-fights-back
At least it is consistent with the Subject of this thread - "time to
re-consider". The need for a new National party leader has been
discussed a lot, but Key has just pre-empted the attack lines for
Collins - albeit presenting them a lot better than she would. Nothin
new though - just the ormal find out what Labour are having assessed,
try and announce it first, and hope there were no good reasons why it
is not suitable . . .
Do you think Key is backing Luxon for the job?
Key's comments were a very accurate summation of the governments failure in addressing covid Rich. Only a biased, envious little prick like you would think otherwise :)
Besides the way your stupid Labour party works is deny all National party suggestions for about six months then claim them as Labours!
Tony
2021-09-27 02:33:47 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Sun, 26 Sep 2021 19:49:12 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Euripides
Post by Rich80105
Post by Euripides
Post by Rich80105
Post by Euripides
Post by Rich80105
Post by Euripides
Post by Gordon
Post by Euripides
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/300414808/sir-john-key-we-need-to-break-free-of-the-hermit-kingdom-and-stop-ruling-by-fear-on-covid19
90% is unlikely to be achieved without overt coercion, that would be a
serious thing.
Coercion/threating people will not achieve the 90%. All it will do
is
to set
up a us and them situation with the media stirring it up to higher levels.
One only has to look to the USA to see where it is possible to end up.
So if we take a big step back. It is clear that we have to get
somewhere as
close as we can to the old normal. Border open and jet planes
buzzing
hither
and yond. People getting drunk in groups, other doing social
drinking
and
social groups of people meetings and having a good time.
So how do we get there? I agree with Sir John's points that we need
a
plan.
Overall, the Government sets a date for vaccinations to be completed by.
Lets say 1 January 2022, the new year. This assumes that the 60,000
day can
be maintained.
Encourage people to get vaccinated. Ensure all have the oppotunity
to
get
vaccinated.
Set out the stages of opening up, along with the dates. Assumes that
deaths
do not hit a rate of 7000 per year say.
Then lets do this.
Post by Euripides
Already we have been "told" what to do by the public servants we
elected. It looks like they have forgotten who they work for.
It is time to take stock and set some dates, stick to them and accept
that this disease is not going away and is not as dangerous as we have
been told. Government by fear.
Government by lack of adoption to things changing. A case of this plan
worked so we will use it, not realising that the world has changed, things
are evolving.
Sir John's example of Apollo 13 is not that good as NASA never
thought
that
the stirring of the O2 tank could cause an explosion. Something had
to
be
done quickly. Covid gives alot more time to think things through and there
are examples from the rest of the world. Apollo 13 was alone. Nevertheless
the question of what does this Government plan to to, and when remains?
We are reaching a stage of everything drifting. The Governemt needs
to
get a
plan, tell it to the people before too many lose faith in the Government.
For a good chuckle read this desperate nonsense.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-delta-outbreak-john-keys-pandemic-response-view-an-insult-to-new-zealanders-chris-hipkins-says/3Y7ZRGWG34WCQH7LQ4B5AL6GAQ/
For another entirely predictable opinion.
Interesting that Hipkins resorts to the insult himself in trying to
answer Key.
And where on Earth did he get 1 in 6 will need to go to hospital? Our
experience and the experiences of other countries is a fraction of that.
Hipkins is the real insult.
We want the government to both save lives but also our economy
https://www.institutmolinari.org/2021/09/21/the-zero-covid-strategy-continues-to-protect-people-economies-and-freedoms-more-effectively/
Where would you prefer us to be on the chart, Euripides?
That is s very silly question. Don't you ever read the content of a post?
Read what Key said, in particular the billion dollars a week we are
borrowing and the lack of a cohesive plan.
The borrowing has kept our economy growing - and we have been rewarded
by increasing GDP, and businesses that are less affected by employee
shortages than we would be otherwise.
So answer Key's question. How long can we keep borrowing a billion
dollars a week?
Read the most recent url posted above - the borrowing we have done to
bail out New Zealand businesses that had not taken simple preparations
for business continuity has resulted in a far better overall result
for New Zealand than the policies of other companies. John Key appears
to be suggesting that if we need to go back to level 4 again the
government should stop the 80% of earnings subsidies - do you agree
with that?
Another silly question.
Post by Rich80105
As to the overall level of debt, thanks to the good governmane of the
Ardern/Robertson Governments, we have low levels of debt in
international comparisons, and far lower levels than we had to cope
with under John Key governments. It is just not an issue - after
paying all that money, and keeping many businesses going, our total
GPD has increased - unlike the econoic results in most other countries
Like your previous paragraph in answer to this thread comparisons are
not the issue, raw debt is the issue.
Post by Rich80105
. . .
Post by Euripides
Post by Rich80105
The plan has worked well - it gets adapted as things change. Key was
getting on National's plans and announcing them early - possibly as an
attack on Collins. Look at the comments on Stuff . . . And as wth so
much from National, they find out what the government is already doig
and say it should have been done yesterday.
Sometimes though issues happen that mean any plan needs to be adapted
- the emergence of the Delata Varian was just such a change that was
unexpected and required fast changes.
In planning your life, Euripides, there is only one way to be certain
about the timing and cause of your own death - most of us are happy
with a bit of uncertainty . . .
Explain that will you, for us poor mortals.
Generally, there are a lot of uncertainties in life. We can be a
little more confident that we will not die from Covid than residents
of most other countries, but planning for the future is not a fixed
process - we must always adapt to new circumstances - and the Delta
variant quite rightly resulted in adjustments to restrictions at
different levels, and in recommended practices. Relating that to an
individual, most of do not know how we will die or what the cause of
that death will be - most hope for at least old age . . . but if you
want absolute certainly you will not get it without initiating the
evnt itself - I am sure you will accept that I was not recommending
such action to anyone, just illustrating that demanding certainty in
an uncertain situation is silly, and usually indicates a juvenile
level of understanding.
I don't believe you. Your responses have been juvenile not mine.
Try this for some grown up opinion. You will enjoy it I think.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300416729/covid19-nz-john-key-dramatically-reenters-political-spotlight-jacinda-ardern-fights-back
At least it is consistent with the Subject of this thread - "time to
re-consider". The need for a new National party leader has been
discussed a lot, but Key has just pre-empted the attack lines for
Collins - albeit presenting them a lot better than she would. Nothin
new though - just the ormal find out what Labour are having assessed,
try and announce it first, and hope there were no good reasons why it
is not suitable . . .
Off topic spin.
Post by Rich80105
Do you think Key is backing Luxon for the job?
Post by Tony
Post by Euripides
Post by Rich80105
Post by Euripides
Post by Rich80105
Post by Euripides
Why don't you answer those questions?
OK yes I did read the content of the post.
What other question did you want an answer to?
And where would you prefer us to be on the chart in the url that I
posted, Euripides?
That is still a silly question. I believed your questions were silly, but I
answered them.
I never left it, but at least you agree that you did.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Euripides
Post by Rich80105
Post by Euripides
Would you have preferred the New Zealand experience to be more
like the other countries that did not adopt the practices and plans put together
by our government?
Loading...