Discussion:
A Challenge for the New Year
(too old to reply)
Rich80105
2019-12-22 07:57:27 UTC
Permalink
Not a new challenge of course, but very well expressed:
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2019/12/22/957029/2020-around-the-corner

The critical paragraphs are probably:

" . . . we’ve made some crucial factors worse, such as inequalities of
income, health and education, household and farming debt, housing
affordability, infrastructure and the natural environment.

As a society, we’ve coped well with great crises, particularly the
Christchurch earthquakes and mosque massacre. But we’ve diminished our
capacity for informed debate, effective policy making and social
cohesion.

Across all aspects of our lives we are largely following global
trends, although thankfully we’re lagging on the most damaging such as
the social and political breakdown evident in the US and UK."

and
" ‘It is clear then that . . . those states in which the middle
element is large, and stronger if possible than the other two [wealthy
and poor] together, or at any rate stronger than either of them alone,
have every chance of having a well-run constitution.’ Thus did
Aristotle summarise his analysis of the Greek city states. The
stability of what we would now call constitutional democracy depended
on the size of its middle class. It is no accident that the US and UK,
long-stable democracies today succumbing to demagogy, are the most
unequal of the western high-income countries. Aristotle, we are
learning, was right.”

A chart accompanying the article shows the five most unequal economies
in the world (in terms of disposable income after taxes and cash
transfers). They are, in order, the US, South Korea, the UK, New
Zealand and Spain. Ours is the best functioning of those five
democracies. But rising tensions will sorely test us in our general
election next year."
____________________________________

The current government has made a start on reducing poverty, with the
two major decisions being to scrap Nationals tax cuts which would have
made the situation worse, and increasing the minimum wage and
increasing benefits, but there is a lot still to be done. One of the
most intractable is rents - anyone who gave up being a landlord when
National did not make it into government was nuts - a large part of
benefit and wage increases is going straight into the pockets of
landlords.

So the next year is important; it will be interesting to see what
policies all parties take into the next election.
Gordon
2019-12-24 04:15:35 UTC
Permalink
On 2019-12-22, Rich80105 <***@hotmail.com> wrote:
[snip]
Post by Rich80105
Across all aspects of our lives we are largely following global
trends, although thankfully we’re lagging on the most damaging such as
the social and political breakdown evident in the US and UK."
This is the challange. Not to get into an us and them situation ans Tony and
Rich so often do in this newsgroup.

There is a theory, that democracy is on its way to the grave.

Think back a couple of decades plus. Feelings were running high over the
matter of the Maori being shafted and needing to be compensated.

No civil war, no really long lasting gripes. Some would disagree.

New Zealand is a small country and like other small countries it can have a
debate and change course by the big(er) countries realise there is an issue.
Rich80105
2019-12-24 04:46:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gordon
[snip]
Post by Rich80105
Across all aspects of our lives we are largely following global
trends, although thankfully we?re lagging on the most damaging such as
the social and political breakdown evident in the US and UK."
This is the challange. Not to get into an us and them situation ans Tony and
Rich so often do in this newsgroup.
There is a theory, that democracy is on its way to the grave.
Think back a couple of decades plus. Feelings were running high over the
matter of the Maori being shafted and needing to be compensated.
No civil war, no really long lasting gripes. Some would disagree.
New Zealand is a small country and like other small countries it can have a
debate and change course by the big(er) countries realise there is an issue.
Thank you Gordon. I see the Maori grievances being rooted in the
issues of fairness and of inequality. Both major parties have tried to
resolve Treaty settlements, some of which have taken over a decade and
are still not complete, but while that process has in general been
successful, inequality has become worse. A danger is that this will be
used by the 'fake news' proponents who have fed on divisions
internationally to foster hatred and division for short term political
gain. Let us hope that can be avoided.
Crash
2019-12-25 05:02:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2019/12/22/957029/2020-around-the-corner
" . . . we’ve made some crucial factors worse, such as inequalities of
income, health and education, household and farming debt, housing
affordability, infrastructure and the natural environment.
As a society, we’ve coped well with great crises, particularly the
Christchurch earthquakes and mosque massacre. But we’ve diminished our
capacity for informed debate, effective policy making and social
cohesion.
Across all aspects of our lives we are largely following global
trends, although thankfully we’re lagging on the most damaging such as
the social and political breakdown evident in the US and UK."
and
" ‘It is clear then that . . . those states in which the middle
element is large, and stronger if possible than the other two [wealthy
and poor] together, or at any rate stronger than either of them alone,
have every chance of having a well-run constitution.’ Thus did
Aristotle summarise his analysis of the Greek city states. The
stability of what we would now call constitutional democracy depended
on the size of its middle class. It is no accident that the US and UK,
long-stable democracies today succumbing to demagogy, are the most
unequal of the western high-income countries. Aristotle, we are
learning, was right.”
A chart accompanying the article shows the five most unequal economies
in the world (in terms of disposable income after taxes and cash
transfers). They are, in order, the US, South Korea, the UK, New
Zealand and Spain. Ours is the best functioning of those five
democracies. But rising tensions will sorely test us in our general
election next year."
____________________________________
The current government has made a start on reducing poverty, with the
two major decisions being to scrap Nationals tax cuts which would have
made the situation worse,
That is because the majority of income tax is paid by those on the
highest incomes. Tax cuts of any sort will always reflect that
demographic. Rich, are you in favour of taxes never being reduced
because it will benefit those who proportionately pay the most tax?
Post by Rich80105
and increasing the minimum wage and
increasing benefits,
In common with many past governments of both colours with no
significant progress on poverty measures.
Post by Rich80105
but there is a lot still to be done. One of the
most intractable is rents - anyone who gave up being a landlord when
National did not make it into government was nuts - a large part of
benefit and wage increases is going straight into the pockets of
landlords
This demonstrates your ignorance of property investment. Rents have
risen because house prices have risen and this has occurred at an
alarming rate since about 1995 - so under the watch of successive
governments led by both National and Labour. The current government
has been no different on this specific topic, and their housing policy
is just as shambolic overall as the previous governments. If property
prices cool off it will be caused purely by market forces.

The increased rental income has not resulted in higher margins to
landlords - but has gone into financing costs and increased costs of
maintenance.

Recent changes that have restricted landlord rights to evict tenants
may well result in landlords exiting long-term rental in favour of
holiday accommodation.
Post by Rich80105
So the next year is important; it will be interesting to see what
policies all parties take into the next election.
Agreed.


--
Crash McBash
Rich80105
2019-12-25 07:55:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2019/12/22/957029/2020-around-the-corner
" . . . we’ve made some crucial factors worse, such as inequalities of
income, health and education, household and farming debt, housing
affordability, infrastructure and the natural environment.
As a society, we’ve coped well with great crises, particularly the
Christchurch earthquakes and mosque massacre. But we’ve diminished our
capacity for informed debate, effective policy making and social
cohesion.
Across all aspects of our lives we are largely following global
trends, although thankfully we’re lagging on the most damaging such as
the social and political breakdown evident in the US and UK."
and
" ‘It is clear then that . . . those states in which the middle
element is large, and stronger if possible than the other two [wealthy
and poor] together, or at any rate stronger than either of them alone,
have every chance of having a well-run constitution.’ Thus did
Aristotle summarise his analysis of the Greek city states. The
stability of what we would now call constitutional democracy depended
on the size of its middle class. It is no accident that the US and UK,
long-stable democracies today succumbing to demagogy, are the most
unequal of the western high-income countries. Aristotle, we are
learning, was right.”
A chart accompanying the article shows the five most unequal economies
in the world (in terms of disposable income after taxes and cash
transfers). They are, in order, the US, South Korea, the UK, New
Zealand and Spain. Ours is the best functioning of those five
democracies. But rising tensions will sorely test us in our general
election next year."
____________________________________
The current government has made a start on reducing poverty, with the
two major decisions being to scrap Nationals tax cuts which would have
made the situation worse,
That is because the majority of income tax is paid by those on the
highest incomes. Tax cuts of any sort will always reflect that
demographic. Rich, are you in favour of taxes never being reduced
because it will benefit those who proportionately pay the most tax?
No, it is a question of balance. All parties support some level of
progressive taxation, but opinions diffe on where bands occur and what
the increases should be. The other issue is that the overall collectin
of tax (which includes many other taxes) should be sufficient to pay
for the government programme. We have a growing problem with
inequality, the cuts to income tax would have made that situation
worse. We also have a problem with total tax being insufficient for
the services that were promised by the major parties - the previous
govenment had borrowed and deferred capital expenditure (eg hospital
and school maintenance), and reduced some services (eg cancer services
- where National now agree with the increase in spending initiated by
the current government. With income tax rates low both in comparison
with historical rates and with other countries, there was a need for
government spending to stimulate the economy, and no competitive need
to further reduce income taxes.
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
and increasing the minimum wage and
increasing benefits,
In common with many past governments of both colours with no
significant progress on poverty measures.
There has, but the cost of rent has not been resolved - problems which
took 9 years to develop cannot be resolved quickly, especially as
Labour were not prepared to increase taxes in their first term, and
also because MMP tends to produce coalition governments which are more
conservative in many areas than a single party can be.
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
but there is a lot still to be done. One of the
most intractable is rents - anyone who gave up being a landlord when
National did not make it into government was nuts - a large part of
benefit and wage increases is going straight into the pockets of
landlords
This demonstrates your ignorance of property investment. Rents have
risen because house prices have risen and this has occurred at an
alarming rate since about 1995 - so under the watch of successive
governments led by both National and Labour. The current government
has been no different on this specific topic, and their housing policy
is just as shambolic overall as the previous governments. If property
prices cool off it will be caused purely by market forces.
The increased rental income has not resulted in higher margins to
landlords - but has gone into financing costs and increased costs of
maintenance.
Recent changes that have restricted landlord rights to evict tenants
may well result in landlords exiting long-term rental in favour of
holiday accommodation.
Post by Rich80105
So the next year is important; it will be interesting to see what
policies all parties take into the next election.
Agreed.
Rich80105
2019-12-25 20:28:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2019/12/22/957029/2020-around-the-corner
" . . . we’ve made some crucial factors worse, such as inequalities of
income, health and education, household and farming debt, housing
affordability, infrastructure and the natural environment.
As a society, we’ve coped well with great crises, particularly the
Christchurch earthquakes and mosque massacre. But we’ve diminished our
capacity for informed debate, effective policy making and social
cohesion.
Across all aspects of our lives we are largely following global
trends, although thankfully we’re lagging on the most damaging such as
the social and political breakdown evident in the US and UK."
and
" ‘It is clear then that . . . those states in which the middle
element is large, and stronger if possible than the other two [wealthy
and poor] together, or at any rate stronger than either of them alone,
have every chance of having a well-run constitution.’ Thus did
Aristotle summarise his analysis of the Greek city states. The
stability of what we would now call constitutional democracy depended
on the size of its middle class. It is no accident that the US and UK,
long-stable democracies today succumbing to demagogy, are the most
unequal of the western high-income countries. Aristotle, we are
learning, was right.”
A chart accompanying the article shows the five most unequal economies
in the world (in terms of disposable income after taxes and cash
transfers). They are, in order, the US, South Korea, the UK, New
Zealand and Spain. Ours is the best functioning of those five
democracies. But rising tensions will sorely test us in our general
election next year."
____________________________________
The current government has made a start on reducing poverty, with the
two major decisions being to scrap Nationals tax cuts which would have
made the situation worse,
That is because the majority of income tax is paid by those on the
highest incomes. Tax cuts of any sort will always reflect that
demographic. Rich, are you in favour of taxes never being reduced
because it will benefit those who proportionately pay the most tax?
No, it is a question of balance. All parties support some level of
progressive taxation, but opinions diffe on where bands occur and what
the increases should be. The other issue is that the overall collectin
of tax (which includes many other taxes) should be sufficient to pay
for the government programme. We have a growing problem with
inequality, the cuts to income tax would have made that situation
worse. We also have a problem with total tax being insufficient for
the services that were promised by the major parties - the previous
govenment had borrowed and deferred capital expenditure (eg hospital
and school maintenance), and reduced some services (eg cancer services
- where National now agree with the increase in spending initiated by
the current government. With income tax rates low both in comparison
with historical rates and with other countries, there was a need for
government spending to stimulate the economy, and no competitive need
to further reduce income taxes.
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
and increasing the minimum wage and
increasing benefits,
In common with many past governments of both colours with no
significant progress on poverty measures.
There has, but the cost of rent has not been resolved - problems which
took 9 years to develop cannot be resolved quickly, especially as
Labour were not prepared to increase taxes in their first term, and
also because MMP tends to produce coalition governments which are more
conservative in many areas than a single party can be.
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
but there is a lot still to be done. One of the
most intractable is rents - anyone who gave up being a landlord when
National did not make it into government was nuts - a large part of
benefit and wage increases is going straight into the pockets of
landlords
This demonstrates your ignorance of property investment. Rents have
risen because house prices have risen and this has occurred at an
alarming rate since about 1995 - so under the watch of successive
governments led by both National and Labour. The current government
has been no different on this specific topic, and their housing policy
is just as shambolic overall as the previous governments. If property
prices cool off it will be caused purely by market forces.
Prices have risen because rents have risen - there are two sides to
the coin. There are variations around the country, but in general
being a landlord has been the highest return on investment available
to most New Zealanders with the capital available. It does vary around
the country; hence the wisdom of a current emphasis on stimulation in
'the regions'.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Crash
The increased rental income has not resulted in higher margins to
landlords - but has gone into financing costs and increased costs of
maintenance.
In many cases financing costs are lower now than a few years ago.
Maintenance costs have increased, largely due to cost of materials and
a shortage of people in the trades. The move towards delivering
apprenticeships largely through academic education organisations, many
of them privately owned), and then a short occupational experience has
not proved beneficial, nor has the substitution of work for our young
people by encouraging immigration together with lower wages. The sell
off of social housing has not helped either; now any increases in
benefits will at least partially go to increased rents.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Crash
Recent changes that have restricted landlord rights to evict tenants
may well result in landlords exiting long-term rental in favour of
holiday accommodation.
Post by Rich80105
So the next year is important; it will be interesting to see what
policies all parties take into the next election.
Agreed.
A different view of the same problems -
https://www.odt.co.nz/lifestyle/magazine/lines-divide-dunedin-paper-road-separates-two-worlds
Loading...